Francisco Scaramanga - the infamous 'Man with the Golden Gun.' Other than his famous role as Dracula, I was unaware of many of the role Sir Christopher played until my early adulthood.
Let's give Lee props for his professionalism. It would have been so easy for an actor to just leave the project because he wouldn't get to play his preferred role, but Lee took the role he was seen as the best fit for, accepted with grace and professionalism, and absolutely killed it.
"Grace and professionalism" are probably the two best descriptors of Christopher Lee. No matter whether he was acting in a slocky, low budget horror movie in eastern Europe or on the blue-screened, million-dollar sets of Star Wars, he was a gracious professional.
One thing that makes this scene particularly great is how Saruman's betrayal gradually unfolds. It starts with him being condescending towards Gandalf, then moves on to playing up the strength of the enemy. For a while you could believe Saruman is an ally simply demonstrating tough leadership. All of this creates build-up to the point where he finally reveals his cards and announces his alliance with Sauron.
I see almost no one discuss the greatest nuance Lee brought to Saruman, which is in this scene. When he says "There are none who can," he was in effect admitting he had been broken by Sauron, that the Dark Lord had proven victorious in a battle of wills. It is a source of subtle shame and humiliation, and adds an extra touch of pathos when he says "We (i.e. Gandalf as well) must join with him." He sees this as the only way he can save Gandalf from death. His arrogance makes him feel contempt for Gandalf's choice, but also (when the Grey Wizard escapes) some sadness.
I agree, and during the filming he would repeatedly comment to Jackson that Saruman isn't an evil person like, say, Sauron. He brought so much nuance and depth to it that is one of the many reasons the movies are so great to re-watch.
@@PentexProductions also Christopher lee was slightly older then Ian , I don't think he would have had that energy to move about as much, as Ian did . Christopher's health had weakened
@@michaelhawkins7389 idk he kicked ass in the Star Wars prequels, but a good portion of his duelling scenes were done with a stunt double, so they could probably have pulled off christopher lee as gandalf but it would probably require a bit more cgi and stunt doubling.
@@eubalenaglacialis Yes, I've often wondered recently if something of the 'sin' (yes, forgiven) of hubris for creating the Dwarves is a strain that also goes through the Maiar that served him (of which both Saruman and Sauron qualified, at least at the VERY beginning). Another possibility is that Melkor, whose overriding desire was to create independent life, was frustrated when the Dwarves weren't destroyed and made a point to try and corrupt Aule's Maiar in particular.
The inclusion of him in the films and to a lesser extent the books was ingenious: Sauron in his current form was imagined as an otherworldly, almost Lovecraftian entity that is inscrutable to mortals, besides his final aim, which is to dominate Earth. If you just gave him a human form that he'd eventually shed, that effect would be greatly lessened. So a secondary villain was needed to inject some human element, with more easily believable human motivations like "seeing in which direction the wind is turning, and submitting", someone the heroes can converse with and have concrete battles of words and wit, rather than just ethereal battles of souls. It was a bit successfully having the cake while eating it.
That’s one of the main reasons why I hope the lotr show will be good. It’s a great opportunity to characterize Sauron while also showing him at the height of his unimaginable power and the sheer terror he brought to his foes
@Azaram 813 That's why I'm hoping to see Ar-Pharazon. It showcases Sauron's main power, which isn't his military might - it's his cunning and charisma. He at first appears weak when his orcs flee before the mighty host of Numenor and he surrenders himself their prisoner. But then within short order, he has connived and manipulated his way to be the king's chief advisor, and within a few years has the greatest, most moral civilisation, a people literally blessed by the gods, turned to the worship of Melkor and performing human sacrifices in his name. He even convinces them to raise the greatest fleet ever and invade the lands of the gods, a threat which causes Eru to literally reshape the world to prevent it ever happening again. I'm also hoping to see him coming to Erebor and forging the rings with Celebrimbor for much the same reason.
In early 1990, I was a volunteer at a Fangoria Convention in New York City - the first they had held there in many years so the place was packed! And in fact it was my first time volunteering as part of the convention security team. I had been asked to work in one of the rooms off the main ball room preparing balloons for a later scheduled party, and who should walk into the room but Sir Christopher Lee, preparing to enter the main ballroom for his featured talk. Having attended several Sci-Fi conventions in the past, I knew that generally you did not bother the stars. But here comes this legendary actor with a few minutes to spare to strike up a conversation with me! One of the nicest gentlemen - and I mean that in every sense of the word! - that I have ever met. Nothing at all like his most famous villainous characters. I honestly wish I had more than just a handful of minutes to spend with him, but to this day more than three decades later still one of my most cherished memories.
Playing that scene to certain musical scores also makes for some pretty entertaining music videos, without having to add any "special effects." Try that sometime. :)
i just now realized this, the rest of the sense being at night shows how serious and dark everything has gotten up to the "second breakfast" seen because it shows the true power of the hobbits. their true power and the real reason why they were able to resist the ring, they are optimists, even in the darkest and most depressing times they can make jokes, have fun, and bring light into a moment were there only was darkness.
I remember the first time I ever read LOTR that I had a hard time distinguishing between Sauron and Saruman because their names were so similar. Then I got to the part where Saruman turns evil and I was like, ok that makes things simpler now, they're BOTH bad guys. Of course I had it all sorted by the end of the first book but those early chapters were a little confusing for me on my very first read through. Tolkien throws a lot of names our way and having two very prominent character names with so similar pronunciations threw me for a loop. All that to say, I can't picture anyone besides Christopher Lee playing this character. Absolutely wonderful casting
In the Bakshi animation they changed his name slightly to 'Aruman' to make it easier to distinguish between the two. Personally I used to get Gil-Galad and Glorfindel confused for the same reason.
If Sauron and Saruman confused you, I wouldn't recommend reading the Silmarillion (although I would also seriously recommend reading the Silmarillion) It has: Finwe, Manwe, Olwe, Elwe, Aule Feanor, Finarfin, Finrod Felagund, Fingolfin, Fingon, Finduilas Turgon, Tuor, Turin, Hurin, Huor Beor, Bregor, Barahir, Bregolas, Beren, Belegund, Baragund, Beleg Elwing, Earendil, Elrond, Elros I had to read the whole thing with a permanent bookmark at the Family Tree section near the back, so I could refer to it constantly to remind myself who was who and where they fit in. It takes a bit more work and mental effort than LOTR, but I'd highly recommend it
I always thought that the scene that suggests most clearly that Saruman wanted to overthrow Sauron was the "whom do you serve" scene with Lurtz, since the army was supposed to be in service of Mordor, and yet it was bred to be blindly loyal to Saruman.
I'd agree that there are hints of the book motivation of Saruman here and there (e.g., when the goblin comes in later and asks, 'What news from Mordor? What does the Eye command?'), Saruman, played by Lee, looks ashamed and that he 'feels dirty' and just says, 'We have work to do.' It seems at that point, to me, that Lee's portrayal of Saruman is that he doesn't really want to do this; he's forced to. Only later when he starts to discover the power that he gains from this does he seem to 'succumb' the lure of evil.
There's that one scene after you first see him speaking with Sauron after the duel with Gandalf and the sequences with the hobits, nazgul & Aragorn, where Saruman's sitting alone in his study with his arms crossed looking down at the floor, it always struck me as odd, like he seems uncertain or uncomfortable, he's even shaking a little. Nothing like that comes up again so it just seems so strange, even the scene itself only lasts a few moments before the orc task-masters creep into his room to ask for their orders.
It is a bit odd, I agree. I always took it to be Saruman having spent days or even weeks in deep meditation, planning out how he was going to build up his army, find the Ring and defeat Rohan - mapping out all the possibilities in his head. That's why he's so furious at himself when the Ents rise up - he didn't expect them to actually intervene.
I always took his post-Palantir scene to be a side effect of his exposure to the will of Sauron through the Palantir. Everyone else who is shown to have used it to communicate with Sauron also experiences some kind of after effect, so why not Saruman also?
soo true about the grounded magic fight!!! the whole cgi stuff is nice and all, but most of the time it will only be as good as the tech of the time. i also think that not seeing any magic, but just its effects on the world gives it a far more mystical and arcane touch. it just feels more magical in a way...
I found the death of Saruman scene to be a really interesting lesson in knowing not just what you're conveying in a scene, but how you're pacing and filming and constructing it. A scene depicting this event absolutely should've been in RotK...but I don't think the scene they shot could've worked. They'd originally envisioned it as closing off Two Towers, and when they realized it didn't work there, assumed they'd be able to open Return of the King with it instead. But it's not paced or constructed or acted or filmed as the ending or beginning of a film...it's just another scene. Jackson had an amazing ability to keep an eye on dramatic and narrative context while filming, and the editors seem to have usually gotten the right stuff to work with. But what was available when time came to edit Two Towers and Return of the King just doesn't seem like it could've been used to serve the purpose well enough. There was absolutely plenty of stuff that could've been shaved or cut for time from the movie, but time wasn't the only problem. I think about the static, undramatic filming of Saruman's staff breaking for instance. Gandalf says a couple words, we cut to Saruman, and his staff kinda pops like a firecracker. This could...and if you're using the scene to end or start a film, should...have been something with much greater visual gravitas; breaking a wizard's staff shouldn't be a passing moment. It didn't need to be more violent (though the FX could've been a lot more interesting), but it needed to be more *something*. The extended editions had the luxury of doing things like having multiple slow beginnings, but even in the EE, the editing of the dialogue has always seemed weirdly choppy as well, and the rewriting of it felt quite awkward. I'm not someone that gets too bent out of shape about changing or compressing Tolkien's dialogue, but the conversation between Gandalf and Theoden and Saruman is one of a number of places that would have benefited if they'd left in more of the ebb and flow that Tolkien wrote there.
Mr. Lee would certainly have brought all of the gravitas of Gandalf to life with his performance, but I have to agree. He's a better Saruman, and I believe he unintentionally made a stronger case than anyone else could have for why. Think about it: would Gandalf know what sound backstabs sound like?
Great video and great choice of a character to analise, Saruman totally deserved all the screen tinme he had (and even the ones he hadn't), because he is such an amazing character and had such a great portrait by Lee.
A small detail I noticed when Gandalf's staff is mentioned: all of Gandalf's staffs are made from wood, whereas Saruman's looks to be forged from metal. A small hint of his more industrial nature.
When scrolling through this new playlist, I think I was most excited to see that you made a video. After watching, it did not disappoint! Also, thanks for clearing up that misconception about JRR choosing Lee for Gandalf, I didn't know that was false.
I litterally made a little ” iiiiiiihhhh” sound when I saw that you had posted a New lotr video! I love your content so much, Thank you for sharing your interesting thoughts!
I completely agree, Christopher Lee is a perfect cast for Saruman, even though he wanted so bad to play Gandalf ! If I remember correctly, Ian McKellen told in an interview that one day they were talking on set, and Lee told him "You know, I always thought I would be the one to play Gandalf."
There is a secondary reason why casting Lee as Saruman is perfect: Saruman the character is jealous of Gandalf, so it's like life imitating art for the actor to be jealous that he didn't get to play Gandalf.
5:21 - There is more to the "Saruman of Many Colours" thing. Tolkien seems to consistently condemn the reduction of any thing to its parts. Here is the same fragment: "White! " he sneered. "It serves as a beginning. White cloth may be dyed. The white page can be overwritten; and the white light can be broken. "In which case it is no longer white," said I. "And he that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom."" In a similar way, the corruption of Smeagol by the Ring was facilitated by his interest in "roots and beginnings". Tolkien condemns the analytical reductionism. Breaking white colour into rainbow destroys the white colour, just like any division destroys the whole. For Tolkien, the unity is given from above; going against it is sin. P.S. One can imagine the reaction were that scene included! ;)
Gandalf gets another staff after he escapes. If you look closely at the top, you can see that it is different. The same thing happens to his original one when it is destroyed after being captured in The Hobbit.
the staff that gandalf has when he's muticolored or whatever, is a different staff. he didn't reclaim his old staff, he created a new one to vibe with his new existence.
I hadn't noticed the staff thing either, but a rapid Google search delivers another piece of info that's neat: that's radaghast's staff, which can hold his pipe. He gets another one in Rivendell that holds the crystal. 2 staves for Gandalf until he dies
Gandalf didn't get his staff back. It is actually a different staff. Not sure if he made a new one or got it from the elves. The first one had more intricate natural carving where his pipe could fit in the top. The second one was a lot more simpler and allowed for the crystal to be put on it when going into Moria
Under appreciated video for an under appreciated character. Keep up the amazing work. (Also good on you not foistering a political argument for no good reason on a film analysis video). :D You're very much appreciated.
The myth about him getting Tolkien's blessings was mentioned in the same DVDs that those other interviews are from. But it would make sense that Tolkien would like Sauroman as Gandalf.
Agreed, though I would say most of his character's complexity comes pre-Third Age, whereas the bulk of Saruman's arc and development comes out during the years preceding the events of LOTR.
7:25 brotherhood workshop explain it perfectly in a short video called "Voldemort goes wand shopping". They researched all the letters and doodles tolkein made to come to their conclusion. I suggest you all watch it
@@retromemories8522 If memory serves, Saruman levitates him to the top of Orthanc. In the movie, they show him flying upward inside the tower, but when I read the book, in my mind's eye, I saw him flying up outside the tower.
A thought on villains outside of film (and one film that comes close to portraying one like them,) that either inspired the channel name or you were completely ignorant of is the supernatural/corporate evil of "Pentex Holdings INC" in the "Werewolf: The Apocalypse" Table Top RPG. In the game Werewolf: The Apocalypse (W:tA for short) the default player characters are werewolves, who are genetically werewolves like in Teen Wolf, they see themselves as Warrior Angels for the Mother Goddess & have powers that make them a furry composite of Wolverine, The Flash & The Hulk, with the combined anger/attitude issues of all three. Pentex Holdings INC, has contacted the Spirt Realm & is now a tool of the spirit of Evil & Corruption with dozens of subsidiaries giving them a finger in basically every pie, from Endron Energy, to King Breweries & Distilleries they can offer goods that taint the world from practically any item you buy. These aren't your normal shoddy, or poisonous products either, as they can cause posession & mutation in extreme cases, after all do you REALLY know what those ingredients in the items of your medicine cabinet do, how about the sourcing of the 'Essential Oils?" The one movie that has a force of Evil that's close to Pentex Holdings INC has to be the black sheep of the Halloween films; "Halloween 3: The Season Of The Witch." The idea of a mass produced supernatural threat has not been explored all that well in my opinion, as after all the sources of many things in our homes is some what obscured to those of us who let them in, & the face of EVIL is often not as obvious as the film version Annabelle, and the facelessness of corporations makes them harder to portray than a single individual, but the reach of a thousands of people ignoring their own moral compass with the mantra "if I don't do it someone else will & who's gonna put food on my table?" can lead to some horrifying results in the real world, but it is harder to portray in fiction. How do you fight an enemy that is a faceless army, that can replace any single individual you eliminate and is already eveywhere? So have you heard of Pentex from the TTRPG Werewolf or was the name just a coincidence?
I honestly hadn't heard the name before - I came up with Pentex as a sort of hybrid of 'penguin' and my name - but this connection did come up when I searched to see if it was already taken. There's also an energy company with the name.
This has not been pointed out in the comment section yet, but one theory as to how Gandalf gets his Staff back is he gets Radagast's staff. It has been a while since i read the book or watched the movies, but Gandalf may have met with Radagast after he got rescued by an eagle. Gandalf's staff turns clearly different looking after he comes back on the screen, the staff's head is "blooming", and he can put some sort of stone on it to make it glow. And from the Hobbit movie, Radagast' staff also works similarly since he has that blue gem thing on it.
You're wrong about the films never suggesting that Saruman wanted the ring for himself. "They're taking the hobbits to Isengard"- and they did this on Sarumans orders because he wanted to capture and kill the ringbearer and take the ring for himself. His fighting Uruk-Hai had the wrong hobbits.
Since we are in a LORT video, i trully recommend the metal band *Blind Guardian* to anyone who enjoys both Lord Of The Rings ((and the Silmarillion books as well)) and metal ! They have a full album about the LORD universe, with most songs being about stories from the Silmarillion books, it's called "Nightfall In Middle Earth" My favourite songs are "Noldor", "Mirror Mirror", "Blood Tears" and "Curse Of Feanor". Really, if you love both metal and LOTR you should totally check it out... They also do songs about D&D stories and Dark Tower ones, also Bladerunner and some many other great tales.
Saruman corruption starts 1v1 Sauron in the hobbit. Sauron gave him the ALL eye seeing artifact after defeating Saruman then convince him to join Sauron. The idea is if he can defeat Saruman , there will be no contest among mortals thus leads to despair. To communicate using the stone, but Sauron intention is to spy Sauron for revenge once he got the one Ring to betray or overpower Sauron.
I think the way this video was edited (great video btw) makes it seem like Lee thinks Saruman's death in RotK extended cut is taken from the books. It is NOT, and Lee was always aware of it. Saruman meets his end during the Scouring of the Shire, which was completely left out.
I think Lee is referring to the scene (in the film and book) where Gandalf and Theoden attempt to reconcile with Saruman, but he refuses and is stripped of his staff, as opposed to Saruman's death specifically. The Scouring was indeed another very important episode in the books, but that was never part of the film so I don't think it's what Lee is talking about. It would have been great to see Lee as Sharkey though! Thanks for watching, glad you enjoyed the video.
@@PentexProductions Yeah, that makes sense. I forget that Jackson condensed that part as well. The film does indeed follow the book to some point but it sort of skips the whole timeline between Isengard and Shire and just has Grima deal with his master "ahead of schedule" lol. I guess they knew for a long time that they had to leave the Scouring out of it.
I wonder if he ever made peace with the fact that he never got to play Gandalf. It's not like he had anything to be ashamed of with playing Saruman. Because he IS that character.
Christopher Lee has a resting bitch face and looks permanently serious. Acting-wise, he's not kind enough to be a convincing mall Santa. I wouldn't trust him as Gandalf...
Tolkien would ABSOLUTELY NOT prefer the Maiar being called "angel" over "demigods". He even calls the Valar "the gods" at some points. Tolkien was always deeply offended when people saw biblical allegory in his works, to the point of thinking that blasphemous, and never appreciated terminology like that applied to these stories.
I'll be saying this 20 years from now, because I don't anticipate my opinion on this will ever change: The role of Saruman could ONLY have been played by Christopher Lee!
I absolutely agree (came to the comments to say this!) There's probably plenty of actors who could play Gandalf (though after Ian McKellen it's nearly impossible to imagine anyone else) but you would be hard pressed to find anyone who could play Saruman
@@annejeppesen160 The only British actor that even comes close, in my mind, to Saruman, and his character, is Charles Dance. But 20 years from now, Charles Dance will more than likely be dead anyway, so he's out of the conversation for any remakes, lol.
Neither Curunír nor Samuran are "real" name. Both name were given to him by people of Middle Earth. It is wrong to say that one of those name is more accurate than the other. At most, the most real name could be Curumo, his name as a Maia in Valinor.
I bought the first two extended editions on VHS then the third one was rather expensive on eBay and it came with two tapes so I thought ok why is that so I googled it and it said that the second tape was the behind the scenes so I thought "oh great I love that stuff" but when I watched it Google lied it was the film split up I to two parts and not only that it was split up during the battering rams attack on minis tirith so to ends at *orc chant *orc chant *orc chant - trolls going through the gate this was nearly two years ago and I'm STILL angry about this
Saruman was evil in the Hobbit, too. He'd been searching for the ring along the shores of the Anduin under the guise of watching the rising evil in Mirkwood. In fact, the only reason he joined the white council against the necromancer is because he was worried he was close to finding it.
What's your favourite Christopher Lee role?
MI6, British Intelligence :) or Count Dooku as a close second..:D
I loved him as Scaramanga, but it's as Saruman i truely saw him as my favorite actor of all times...
Count Dooku, probably because this character is also one of my favourites from SW
Francisco Scaramanga - the infamous 'Man with the Golden Gun.' Other than his famous role as Dracula, I was unaware of many of the role Sir Christopher played until my early adulthood.
Saruman or Dracula probably.
Let's give Lee props for his professionalism. It would have been so easy for an actor to just leave the project because he wouldn't get to play his preferred role, but Lee took the role he was seen as the best fit for, accepted with grace and professionalism, and absolutely killed it.
"Grace and professionalism" are probably the two best descriptors of Christopher Lee. No matter whether he was acting in a slocky, low budget horror movie in eastern Europe or on the blue-screened, million-dollar sets of Star Wars, he was a gracious professional.
One thing that makes this scene particularly great is how Saruman's betrayal gradually unfolds. It starts with him being condescending towards Gandalf, then moves on to playing up the strength of the enemy. For a while you could believe Saruman is an ally simply demonstrating tough leadership. All of this creates build-up to the point where he finally reveals his cards and announces his alliance with Sauron.
I see almost no one discuss the greatest nuance Lee brought to Saruman, which is in this scene. When he says "There are none who can," he was in effect admitting he had been broken by Sauron, that the Dark Lord had proven victorious in a battle of wills. It is a source of subtle shame and humiliation, and adds an extra touch of pathos when he says "We (i.e. Gandalf as well) must join with him." He sees this as the only way he can save Gandalf from death. His arrogance makes him feel contempt for Gandalf's choice, but also (when the Grey Wizard escapes) some sadness.
I agree, and during the filming he would repeatedly comment to Jackson that Saruman isn't an evil person like, say, Sauron. He brought so much nuance and depth to it that is one of the many reasons the movies are so great to re-watch.
@@PentexProductions also Christopher lee was slightly older then Ian , I don't think he would have had that energy to move about as much, as Ian did . Christopher's health had weakened
@@michaelhawkins7389 idk he kicked ass in the Star Wars prequels, but a good portion of his duelling scenes were done with a stunt double, so they could probably have pulled off christopher lee as gandalf but it would probably require a bit more cgi and stunt doubling.
@@michaelhawkins7389 You're right, but "slightly" really isn't the word.
During filming of the trilogy, Lee was 78 and Ian was 61.
Whenever I think of the whole Saruman / Sauron thing I imagine Aulë looking really embarrassed in front of the other valar.
They were probably still mad at him for creating the dwarves.
@@eubalenaglacialis Dwarves wasn't really a problem though... They was created without permission, but Eru kinda adopted them
@@a.w.4708 I loved erus response. . . "I won't get rid of them, BUT MY SHIT COMES FIRST!!!"
@@eubalenaglacialis Yes, I've often wondered recently if something of the 'sin' (yes, forgiven) of hubris for creating the Dwarves is a strain that also goes through the Maiar that served him (of which both Saruman and Sauron qualified, at least at the VERY beginning).
Another possibility is that Melkor, whose overriding desire was to create independent life, was frustrated when the Dwarves weren't destroyed and made a point to try and corrupt Aule's Maiar in particular.
The inclusion of him in the films and to a lesser extent the books was ingenious: Sauron in his current form was imagined as an otherworldly, almost Lovecraftian entity that is inscrutable to mortals, besides his final aim, which is to dominate Earth. If you just gave him a human form that he'd eventually shed, that effect would be greatly lessened.
So a secondary villain was needed to inject some human element, with more easily believable human motivations like "seeing in which direction the wind is turning, and submitting", someone the heroes can converse with and have concrete battles of words and wit, rather than just ethereal battles of souls.
It was a bit successfully having the cake while eating it.
That’s one of the main reasons why I hope the lotr show will be good. It’s a great opportunity to characterize Sauron while also showing him at the height of his unimaginable power and the sheer terror he brought to his foes
@Azaram 813 That's why I'm hoping to see Ar-Pharazon. It showcases Sauron's main power, which isn't his military might - it's his cunning and charisma.
He at first appears weak when his orcs flee before the mighty host of Numenor and he surrenders himself their prisoner.
But then within short order, he has connived and manipulated his way to be the king's chief advisor, and within a few years has the greatest, most moral civilisation, a people literally blessed by the gods, turned to the worship of Melkor and performing human sacrifices in his name.
He even convinces them to raise the greatest fleet ever and invade the lands of the gods, a threat which causes Eru to literally reshape the world to prevent it ever happening again.
I'm also hoping to see him coming to Erebor and forging the rings with Celebrimbor for much the same reason.
In early 1990, I was a volunteer at a Fangoria Convention in New York City - the first they had held there in many years so the place was packed! And in fact it was my first time volunteering as part of the convention security team. I had been asked to work in one of the rooms off the main ball room preparing balloons for a later scheduled party, and who should walk into the room but Sir Christopher Lee, preparing to enter the main ballroom for his featured talk.
Having attended several Sci-Fi conventions in the past, I knew that generally you did not bother the stars. But here comes this legendary actor with a few minutes to spare to strike up a conversation with me! One of the nicest gentlemen - and I mean that in every sense of the word! - that I have ever met. Nothing at all like his most famous villainous characters. I honestly wish I had more than just a handful of minutes to spend with him, but to this day more than three decades later still one of my most cherished memories.
Nothing but class from Sir Christopher
That’s truly amazing! What a character to meet.
(and I don’t mean the character of Saruman, but of Christopher Lee)
That point about the lighting/colour palette was so brilliant, I can’t believe I never noticed it
“Tell me, friend. . .”
One of my favorite line readings in all of cinema is Ian Mcclellan saying that one word.
I always loved the fight between the two wizards. Feels so visceral and you really feel every blow.
Playing that scene to certain musical scores also makes for some pretty entertaining music videos, without having to add any "special effects." Try that sometime. :)
i just now realized this, the rest of the sense being at night shows how serious and dark everything has gotten up to the "second breakfast" seen because it shows the true power of the hobbits. their true power and the real reason why they were able to resist the ring, they are optimists, even in the darkest and most depressing times they can make jokes, have fun, and bring light into a moment were there only was darkness.
This scene is easily the best in the trilogy, you know why? Does the wizard breakdance battle happen anywhere else?
Guardians of the galaxy
I always loved Lee's face when closing the doors on Gandalf. It's a look of a cat toying with its food
The second breakfest is indeed the best line. You get a like for that.
Christopher Lee has to be one of the closest human beings to the actual parts he plays. Man had an extrodenary life.
I remember the first time I ever read LOTR that I had a hard time distinguishing between Sauron and Saruman because their names were so similar. Then I got to the part where Saruman turns evil and I was like, ok that makes things simpler now, they're BOTH bad guys. Of course I had it all sorted by the end of the first book but those early chapters were a little confusing for me on my very first read through. Tolkien throws a lot of names our way and having two very prominent character names with so similar pronunciations threw me for a loop. All that to say, I can't picture anyone besides Christopher Lee playing this character. Absolutely wonderful casting
In the Bakshi animation they changed his name slightly to 'Aruman' to make it easier to distinguish between the two. Personally I used to get Gil-Galad and Glorfindel confused for the same reason.
@@PentexProductions
Pity they didn't go with his maiar name of Curunir.
It would have been a talking point for fans.
If Sauron and Saruman confused you, I wouldn't recommend reading the Silmarillion (although I would also seriously recommend reading the Silmarillion)
It has: Finwe, Manwe, Olwe, Elwe, Aule
Feanor, Finarfin, Finrod Felagund, Fingolfin, Fingon, Finduilas
Turgon, Tuor, Turin, Hurin, Huor
Beor, Bregor, Barahir, Bregolas, Beren, Belegund, Baragund, Beleg
Elwing, Earendil, Elrond, Elros
I had to read the whole thing with a permanent bookmark at the Family Tree section near the back, so I could refer to it constantly to remind myself who was who and where they fit in. It takes a bit more work and mental effort than LOTR, but I'd highly recommend it
@@KeppyKep
Let's not forget the dwarves in The Hobbit.
No problem as too me SaruMAN was in human form and had "man" while Sauron sounded inhuman and was disinbodied.
I love how when Gandalf rides to Orthanc, the shot from above looks like he's entering the jaws of a beast
He also goes from the light into the shadow - which the film itself does after this scene.
I always thought that the scene that suggests most clearly that Saruman wanted to overthrow Sauron was the "whom do you serve" scene with Lurtz, since the army was supposed to be in service of Mordor, and yet it was bred to be blindly loyal to Saruman.
I'd agree that there are hints of the book motivation of Saruman here and there (e.g., when the goblin comes in later and asks, 'What news from Mordor? What does the Eye command?'), Saruman, played by Lee, looks ashamed and that he 'feels dirty' and just says, 'We have work to do.' It seems at that point, to me, that Lee's portrayal of Saruman is that he doesn't really want to do this; he's forced to. Only later when he starts to discover the power that he gains from this does he seem to 'succumb' the lure of evil.
There's that one scene after you first see him speaking with Sauron after the duel with Gandalf and the sequences with the hobits, nazgul & Aragorn, where Saruman's sitting alone in his study with his arms crossed looking down at the floor, it always struck me as odd, like he seems uncertain or uncomfortable, he's even shaking a little.
Nothing like that comes up again so it just seems so strange, even the scene itself only lasts a few moments before the orc task-masters creep into his room to ask for their orders.
It is a bit odd, I agree. I always took it to be Saruman having spent days or even weeks in deep meditation, planning out how he was going to build up his army, find the Ring and defeat Rohan - mapping out all the possibilities in his head. That's why he's so furious at himself when the Ents rise up - he didn't expect them to actually intervene.
I always took his post-Palantir scene to be a side effect of his exposure to the will of Sauron through the Palantir. Everyone else who is shown to have used it to communicate with Sauron also experiences some kind of after effect, so why not Saruman also?
soo true about the grounded magic fight!!! the whole cgi stuff is nice and all, but most of the time it will only be as good as the tech of the time. i also think that not seeing any magic, but just its effects on the world gives it a far more mystical and arcane touch. it just feels more magical in a way...
I found the death of Saruman scene to be a really interesting lesson in knowing not just what you're conveying in a scene, but how you're pacing and filming and constructing it. A scene depicting this event absolutely should've been in RotK...but I don't think the scene they shot could've worked. They'd originally envisioned it as closing off Two Towers, and when they realized it didn't work there, assumed they'd be able to open Return of the King with it instead. But it's not paced or constructed or acted or filmed as the ending or beginning of a film...it's just another scene. Jackson had an amazing ability to keep an eye on dramatic and narrative context while filming, and the editors seem to have usually gotten the right stuff to work with. But what was available when time came to edit Two Towers and Return of the King just doesn't seem like it could've been used to serve the purpose well enough.
There was absolutely plenty of stuff that could've been shaved or cut for time from the movie, but time wasn't the only problem. I think about the static, undramatic filming of Saruman's staff breaking for instance. Gandalf says a couple words, we cut to Saruman, and his staff kinda pops like a firecracker. This could...and if you're using the scene to end or start a film, should...have been something with much greater visual gravitas; breaking a wizard's staff shouldn't be a passing moment. It didn't need to be more violent (though the FX could've been a lot more interesting), but it needed to be more *something*.
The extended editions had the luxury of doing things like having multiple slow beginnings, but even in the EE, the editing of the dialogue has always seemed weirdly choppy as well, and the rewriting of it felt quite awkward. I'm not someone that gets too bent out of shape about changing or compressing Tolkien's dialogue, but the conversation between Gandalf and Theoden and Saruman is one of a number of places that would have benefited if they'd left in more of the ebb and flow that Tolkien wrote there.
Mr. Lee would certainly have brought all of the gravitas of Gandalf to life with his performance, but I have to agree. He's a better Saruman, and I believe he unintentionally made a stronger case than anyone else could have for why.
Think about it: would Gandalf know what sound backstabs sound like?
Great video and great choice of a character to analise, Saruman totally deserved all the screen tinme he had (and even the ones he hadn't), because he is such an amazing character and had such a great portrait by Lee.
Haha that last Gandalf edit made me laugh. "IT'S SARUMAAAAAAN!"
the scene with the black powder bomb was an amazing piece of acting without words
"I was going to ask him whether he knew what sort of sound someone made when they were stabbed in the back and it turned out he did"
So ruthless!
He was a villain, but at least he was honest to Gandalf about becoming a villain.
A small detail I noticed when Gandalf's staff is mentioned: all of Gandalf's staffs are made from wood, whereas Saruman's looks to be forged from metal. A small hint of his more industrial nature.
When scrolling through this new playlist, I think I was most excited to see that you made a video. After watching, it did not disappoint! Also, thanks for clearing up that misconception about JRR choosing Lee for Gandalf, I didn't know that was false.
I litterally made a little ” iiiiiiihhhh” sound when I saw that you had posted a New lotr video! I love your content so much, Thank you for sharing your interesting thoughts!
Thanks so much, I'm so glad you like them!
The fact that Lee even,if briefly met Tolkien is amazing providence.
Cudos for chapters. Whether I like your video you make or not all respect is due for making our lives easier.
Imagine being in The Eagle and Child pub and Christopher Lee and JRR Tolkien are both there!
man, i would listen to you talking about LOTR for a WEEK, not only a day, keep doing these videos please!
I can’t even imagine Peter Jackson’s face when Lee said to him “Do you know what it sounds like when someone gets stabbed in the back?” 😮
No actor could have done Saruman as brilliantly as Christopher Lee. The world of acting will never see his like again 😟
Yes, “It’s Saruman.
” The best video. Thanks.
Saruman of many colors would be very tripy, but ill take the risk
I completely agree, Christopher Lee is a perfect cast for Saruman, even though he wanted so bad to play Gandalf ! If I remember correctly, Ian McKellen told in an interview that one day they were talking on set, and Lee told him "You know, I always thought I would be the one to play Gandalf."
There is a secondary reason why casting Lee as Saruman is perfect: Saruman the character is jealous of Gandalf, so it's like life imitating art for the actor to be jealous that he didn't get to play Gandalf.
5:21 - There is more to the "Saruman of Many Colours" thing. Tolkien seems to consistently condemn the reduction of any thing to its parts. Here is the same fragment: "White! " he sneered. "It serves as a beginning. White cloth may be dyed. The white page can be overwritten; and the white light can be broken. "In which case it is no longer white," said I. "And he that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom.""
In a similar way, the corruption of Smeagol by the Ring was facilitated by his interest in "roots and beginnings".
Tolkien condemns the analytical reductionism. Breaking white colour into rainbow destroys the white colour, just like any division destroys the whole. For Tolkien, the unity is given from above; going against it is sin.
P.S. One can imagine the reaction were that scene included! ;)
Great work! You have a knack for pacing, integration of supporting media, and explaining your arguments.
Thanks very much! Glad you enjoyed it.
the battle of the wizards is so good
Gandalf gets another staff after he escapes. If you look closely at the top, you can see that it is different. The same thing happens to his original one when it is destroyed after being captured in The Hobbit.
if they switched the casting for gandalf and saruman, you could say saruman truly has become the wizard of *many colors*
the staff that gandalf has when he's muticolored or whatever, is a different staff. he didn't reclaim his old staff, he created a new one to vibe with his new existence.
I have the extended dvd boxsets of each film. I think I'll dig them out and watch the lot again. not done that for 15 years 😁
Great video. I love LOTR, and you deliver information in a direct and compelling way. I look forward to seeing your channel grow even more!
I hadn't noticed the staff thing either, but a rapid Google search delivers another piece of info that's neat: that's radaghast's staff, which can hold his pipe. He gets another one in Rivendell that holds the crystal. 2 staves for Gandalf until he dies
Thanks! I was devestated to find a continuity error but I guess the error was mine!
Lee was brilliant and so is this video!
Gandalf didn't get his staff back. It is actually a different staff. Not sure if he made a new one or got it from the elves. The first one had more intricate natural carving where his pipe could fit in the top. The second one was a lot more simpler and allowed for the crystal to be put on it when going into Moria
Thanks for clearing that up! It was going to bug me to no end on rewatches.
It's from the elves. He also gets one from Galadriel (the white staff as Gandalf the White).
Under appreciated video for an under appreciated character. Keep up the amazing work. (Also good on you not foistering a political argument for no good reason on a film analysis video). :D You're very much appreciated.
The wizard battle was great.
Can't tell if Kiwi or just Victorian, but that doesn't matter, your video is great
Kiwi!
The myth about him getting Tolkien's blessings was mentioned in the same DVDs that those other interviews are from. But it would make sense that Tolkien would like Sauroman as Gandalf.
*Angrily thumbs up as a Star Wars fan*
Sauron is also just as complex.
Agreed, though I would say most of his character's complexity comes pre-Third Age, whereas the bulk of Saruman's arc and development comes out during the years preceding the events of LOTR.
7:26 If you look closely, it's a new staff.
Listen, if you’re not watching the extended version of the movies, you’re just not watching the whole trilogy.
Great video!
Yes. What about second breakfast?
I thought you were going to talk about count dooku.
Great actors, amazing scene, explains the whole deal with Sauron and the Ring... What more could you ask of it? X)
Gandalf didn't get his old staff back. He has a new one.
7:25 brotherhood workshop explain it perfectly in a short video called "Voldemort goes wand shopping". They researched all the letters and doodles tolkein made to come to their conclusion. I suggest you all watch it
Thanks for that recommendation, good stuff
@@JainaSoloB312 glad you liked it!
Thank You for this video. Give me moooooore! Thx
At least his name indicates he is apologetic for his evil actions. Sorry Mon.
The Gandalf staff issue has always been bothering me more than it should
A rare LOTR continuity error that I am annoyed I have only just noticed!
@@PentexProductions .
Possibly any staff will do once it has bonded with the wizard.
That's pure handwave though.
Mine has always been how did Gandalf end up outside? Is there a hole at the top of Orthanc?
@@retromemories8522 If memory serves, Saruman levitates him to the top of Orthanc. In the movie, they show him flying upward inside the tower, but when I read the book, in my mind's eye, I saw him flying up outside the tower.
Different staff, the one after Saruman capture is the The Rivendell Staff.
A thought on villains outside of film (and one film that comes close to portraying one like them,) that either inspired the channel name or you were completely ignorant of is the supernatural/corporate evil of "Pentex Holdings INC" in the "Werewolf: The Apocalypse" Table Top RPG.
In the game Werewolf: The Apocalypse (W:tA for short) the default player characters are werewolves, who are genetically werewolves like in Teen Wolf, they see themselves as Warrior Angels for the Mother Goddess & have powers that make them a furry composite of Wolverine, The Flash & The Hulk, with the combined anger/attitude issues of all three. Pentex Holdings INC, has contacted the Spirt Realm & is now a tool of the spirit of Evil & Corruption with dozens of subsidiaries giving them a finger in basically every pie, from Endron Energy, to King Breweries & Distilleries they can offer goods that taint the world from practically any item you buy. These aren't your normal shoddy, or poisonous products either, as they can cause posession & mutation in extreme cases, after all do you REALLY know what those ingredients in the items of your medicine cabinet do, how about the sourcing of the 'Essential Oils?" The one movie that has a force of Evil that's close to Pentex Holdings INC has to be the black sheep of the Halloween films; "Halloween 3: The Season Of The Witch." The idea of a mass produced supernatural threat has not been explored all that well in my opinion, as after all the sources of many things in our homes is some what obscured to those of us who let them in, & the face of EVIL is often not as obvious as the film version Annabelle, and the facelessness of corporations makes them harder to portray than a single individual, but the reach of a thousands of people ignoring their own moral compass with the mantra "if I don't do it someone else will & who's gonna put food on my table?" can lead to some horrifying results in the real world, but it is harder to portray in fiction. How do you fight an enemy that is a faceless army, that can replace any single individual you eliminate and is already eveywhere?
So have you heard of Pentex from the TTRPG Werewolf or was the name just a coincidence?
I honestly hadn't heard the name before - I came up with Pentex as a sort of hybrid of 'penguin' and my name - but this connection did come up when I searched to see if it was already taken. There's also an energy company with the name.
This has not been pointed out in the comment section yet, but one theory as to how Gandalf gets his Staff back is he gets Radagast's staff. It has been a while since i read the book or watched the movies, but Gandalf may have met with Radagast after he got rescued by an eagle. Gandalf's staff turns clearly different looking after he comes back on the screen, the staff's head is "blooming", and he can put some sort of stone on it to make it glow. And from the Hobbit movie, Radagast' staff also works similarly since he has that blue gem thing on it.
You're wrong about the films never suggesting that Saruman wanted the ring for himself. "They're taking the hobbits to Isengard"- and they did this on Sarumans orders because he wanted to capture and kill the ringbearer and take the ring for himself.
His fighting Uruk-Hai had the wrong hobbits.
oh yeah no way...Lee was born to play the evil old man,he just ooozes it out of his every orifice
Since we are in a LORT video, i trully recommend the metal band *Blind Guardian* to anyone who enjoys both Lord Of The Rings ((and the Silmarillion books as well)) and metal ! They have a full album about the LORD universe, with most songs being about stories from the Silmarillion books, it's called "Nightfall In Middle Earth"
My favourite songs are "Noldor", "Mirror Mirror", "Blood Tears" and "Curse Of Feanor".
Really, if you love both metal and LOTR you should totally check it out...
They also do songs about D&D stories and Dark Tower ones, also Bladerunner and some many other great tales.
While we're at it, and because it didn't fit in the video, you should check our Christopher Lee's own history of performing in metal bands...
@@PentexProductions Woah wait he did?!? That is totally something i didn't expect, thanks for sharing !
You named the blue wizards. If I could double like a video I would.
(Edited out a mistake.)
Bonus points if you can do it from memory like Christopher Lee can: ruclips.net/video/TQVi_DC9HvI/видео.html
Saruman corruption starts 1v1 Sauron in the hobbit. Sauron gave him the ALL eye seeing artifact after defeating Saruman then convince him to join Sauron. The idea is if he can defeat Saruman , there will be no contest among mortals thus leads to despair. To communicate using the stone, but Sauron intention is to spy Sauron for revenge once he got the one Ring to betray or overpower Sauron.
I think the way this video was edited (great video btw) makes it seem like Lee thinks Saruman's death in RotK extended cut is taken from the books. It is NOT, and Lee was always aware of it. Saruman meets his end during the Scouring of the Shire, which was completely left out.
I think Lee is referring to the scene (in the film and book) where Gandalf and Theoden attempt to reconcile with Saruman, but he refuses and is stripped of his staff, as opposed to Saruman's death specifically. The Scouring was indeed another very important episode in the books, but that was never part of the film so I don't think it's what Lee is talking about. It would have been great to see Lee as Sharkey though! Thanks for watching, glad you enjoyed the video.
@@PentexProductions Yeah, that makes sense. I forget that Jackson condensed that part as well. The film does indeed follow the book to some point but it sort of skips the whole timeline between Isengard and Shire and just has Grima deal with his master "ahead of schedule" lol. I guess they knew for a long time that they had to leave the Scouring out of it.
I wonder if he ever made peace with the fact that he never got to play Gandalf. It's not like he had anything to be ashamed of with playing Saruman. Because he IS that character.
Christopher Lee has a resting bitch face and looks permanently serious. Acting-wise, he's not kind enough to be a convincing mall Santa. I wouldn't trust him as Gandalf...
I think he still had fun with his role though in the end. He just seemed to have a love for it.
Christopher Lee was a noble British man. By playing such or horrible villain he may have tainted people's perception of that somewhat.
A perfect gentleman, for sure.
Gandalf probably had more staves. He was well *STAVED!*
It’s it just me or did I just realize Christopher Lee passed 😢
Almost exactly 7 years ago, sadly
👍🏻🧙♂️
Subbing to you was one of the ten best choices I've ever made.
Where did Gandalf get his staff? It's obvious, he's a wizard, he's good at prestidigitation, he probably hid it up his other sleeve.
I still think Christopher Lee should have had a shot to be Gandalf. It’s unfortunate he was typecast as a villain
Tolkien would ABSOLUTELY NOT prefer the Maiar being called "angel" over "demigods". He even calls the Valar "the gods" at some points.
Tolkien was always deeply offended when people saw biblical allegory in his works, to the point of thinking that blasphemous, and never appreciated terminology like that applied to these stories.
I'll be saying this 20 years from now, because I don't anticipate my opinion on this will ever change:
The role of Saruman could ONLY have been played by Christopher Lee!
Don't rule out Arnold Schwarzenegger!
GET TO THA HELM'S DEEP
I absolutely agree (came to the comments to say this!) There's probably plenty of actors who could play Gandalf (though after Ian McKellen it's nearly impossible to imagine anyone else) but you would be hard pressed to find anyone who could play Saruman
@@annejeppesen160 The only British actor that even comes close, in my mind, to Saruman, and his character, is Charles Dance. But 20 years from now, Charles Dance will more than likely be dead anyway, so he's out of the conversation for any remakes, lol.
buddy your channel doesn't get enough praise........i too am very fun at parties
So much fun!
What about a young Christopher Lee as Aragon? I think he'd have been great at the role.
Saruman the SSSTINKY
I kind of just want to put this on the record…. Saruman was *not* Gandalf’s mentor….
Also, Saruman turned to darkness before the Hobbit, though he had not yet allied with Sauron
I assume Gandalf gets a new staff
Neither Curunír nor Samuran are "real" name. Both name were given to him by people of Middle Earth. It is wrong to say that one of those name is more accurate than the other. At most, the most real name could be Curumo, his name as a Maia in Valinor.
I bought the first two extended editions on VHS then the third one was rather expensive on eBay and it came with two tapes so I thought ok why is that so I googled it and it said that the second tape was the behind the scenes so I thought "oh great I love that stuff" but when I watched it Google lied it was the film split up I to two parts and not only that it was split up during the battering rams attack on minis tirith so to ends at *orc chant *orc chant *orc chant - trolls going through the gate this was nearly two years ago and I'm STILL angry about this
YOOOOO!!!! KEEP THE LORD OF THE RINGS COMMING!!!!
Scaramanga was not one of the greatest Bond villains, no fault of Lee’s. All my memories of that film are of Nick Nack.
Saruman was not a mentor figure to Gandalf.
Saruman was evil in the Hobbit, too. He'd been searching for the ring along the shores of the Anduin under the guise of watching the rising evil in Mirkwood. In fact, the only reason he joined the white council against the necromancer is because he was worried he was close to finding it.
x
Saruman the stinky
Great video!