This is genuinely one of my favorite Kinda Funny podcast series’s and a highlight of my week. Love having Anthony on this and I hope he’ll be on the No Way Home one.
Andy is bringing a great energy, on the streams yesterday too. You can tell he’s been waiting eagerly to get back on content and i love it. Hope you are doing well andy, my best to you and your family.
Peter having to lift the building is such a great moment. He's scared, alone, and physically stuck. He cries out for help and he realizes that nobody is coming to save him. He's gotta do it on his own.
30:30 i don’t think the criticism falls flat because while i LOVE that he fought Vulture by himself in the homemade suit, they kinda don’t start fresh from there, Far From Home kinda picks up and does the same thing where Pete is just using the 100 million dollar Iron Spider suit that’s he’s definitely gonna wear for a chunk of No Way Home. I do love these Tom Holland movies but i do wish we saw Peter do more on his own. It seems like they’re dragging out this arc of “hey I’m Spider-Man and i gotta learn to be my own superhero and step out of the shadow” when that arc should have ended in Homecoming when he beat Vulture with the homemade suit But either way this was a fun episode yall!
But that's what makes it so different from the other iterations of that character. He has to LEARN to do it on his own. The others always had to do it alone. There's no lesson, there. Not as much growth. This version of Spiderman has more of a coming-of-age theme to it. It should be remembered that Peter in the MCU becomes Spider-Man at fifteen. He's a mere sophomore in high school. Earlier versions of him become a superhero, not long before graduating from high school. Given his age at the time, and the fact that in the MCU he grew up around many superheroes whom he looked up to, it makes sense that he has as much help as he does. I get that the comic book purists WANT a certain version of Spider-Man, but as different as this one starts off as, it doesn't make it bad or wrong. So the criticism is less of criticism, and more a personal preference for how an audience member wishes to experience the character. And it does kind of fall flat as a criticism because, you see him having to become his own hero more and more each movie, regardless of the suit he's wearing, especially after Tony dies. That was the real turning point. It all just comes down to purists having a specific preference, as opposed to being a real critique of the writing. That whole "stick to the source material" argument gets old, it loses its credibility, and it prevents adapted movies from being able to do anything new and interesting, moving forward.
"We're not there yet" of Peter thinking Tony is hugging him is ANOTHER thing paid off in Endgame with Tony finally hugging Peter when he sees him after he's un-dusted.
It's even better because both hugs were improvised by the actors. Tom improvised his whole "I don't wanna go" bit. And RDJ improvised the hug after The Blip.
Rewatched this one last week- is it just me or is this one of the most “comic book-y” comic book movies ever made? I can picture the entire thing in panels, every line of dialogue feels like it belongs in a word bubble, it’s uncanny.
Nick: “In the old movies Spider-Man has this dark cloud over him the whole time because he’s being haunted by the ghost of this big mistake.” You’re right… and that’s what makes Spider-Man, Spider-Man and is exactly what this movie is missing for me.
I try to rewatch this movie with the perspective that it was made at a time when people were sick of the origin story and didn’t care for another Uncle Ben subplot. A lot of fans also wanted to see him interacting with other superheroes like Iron Man because we had so many solo films and wanted something different. But now, I think the pendulum needs to swing back. A lot of people like me now want a smaller scale and more personal story. Hopefully after NWH.
Movie is a lot of fun and Tom is a great Peter/Spidey, but I agree with Carboni that this lacks stakes. And a large part of that is giving Spidey a billionaire mentor when he's arguably the most DIY superhero. This does feel like such a sidekick spinoff story. You could take out Spider-Man and Iron Man and replace them with Robin and Batman and it's the same thing as the sidekick trying to prove themselves to the main hero.
I feel like the MCU Spider-Man misses a lot of the important stuff I like about Spidey (most of his supporting cast's representation, his working class roots, etc) but ultimately these are good enjoyable movies. I don't think any one version has got it perfect sadly.
@@KobytheHero Since when did he not have working-class roots? And if he apparently didn't... Where was he upper-class, instead? Or, where was he straight-up poor? The fact that he is working-class definitely was not missing, even if there were some other elements that weren't included in the MCU iteration of these films.
@@KobytheHero Point made, thanks. There's no debating it so choosing not to, is a good choice you're making. At least you're aware of how wrong you really are.
The point of the smart suit is to show that Peter isn't ready or shouldn't even be around all the shit that would come with actually being Iron Man/An Avenger like he's trying to be. It's Spider-Man suddenly trying to handle all the soldier warrior stuff of Iron Man and Cap Which ain't him.
2:28:50 About what Tim said, I think Aunt May knowing would work a lot better in FFH if there HADN'T been The Snap. After Thanos killing Peter, I feel like May should be terrified of him continuing to be Spider-Man, or at least extremely conflicted.
I always thought part of the "too much Iron Man" criticism was a muddy set of motives at the end, like are his motives to stop this crazy tech from getting in the wrong hands out of the goodness of his heart or are they at least in part to impress Tony Stark by saving his stuff and prove to the hero community that he can hang (even though he doesn't go full Avenger when given the chance). I don't even personally align with that take I just thought that was the logic behind it, that his involvement in the story can take away from Spider-Man's character.
If you guys want to have Anthony and Bless back along with the original 5 for MCU in Review NWH, I'm totally okay with that. Just let it be 5 hours of chaos. You can even throw in Barrett as Dennis Leary's ghost.
Biggest gripe with the movie is Tony giving Peter a suit with a secret AI with secret power ups, and he gets mad at Peter for using it. He puts all the blame on him for using the suit wrong, but he himself is to blame just as much for giving a teenager his own iron suit.
One unavoidable thing that always bugged me about this movie (and even the next one) was that because of the last two Spider trilogies being so set in the heart of the city the Holland Spider-Man has been forced to be just about anywhere else to avoid parallels, similarities or samey-ness from the last 5 movies. We see him in the suburbs of NYC, Germany, England, Italy and even SPACE but New York City with its massive building to swing from is supposedly his MOST notable playground and the place he vows to defend yet we haven't seen too much of him in Manhattan (which, not exactly a small part of NYC) and it feels more and more like that was to distance themselves from the past, which is necessary, its just another one of those things that makes me think "Ah, I wish this was made in a world where those first 5 movies didn't exist so they can do some more classic Spider-Man stuff without worrying about what was done before". But it seems enough time has passed that they're willing to shift back to that kind of New York based hero of the city stuff in No Way Home, and hopefully this iteration of Spider-Man gets HIS savior of the city moment to become New York's beloved hero like the other two did, and it'll feel more earned than it ever did before.
I dunno, I just think the criticism of him not staying true to the "tradition", is kind of dumb because, you want to do something different with the character after 5 movies of essentially being the same thing. If you want the character to just be in NYC, well... then just watch those previous 5 movies. Fact of the matter is, those movies exist, and if this new set of movies want to differentiate themselves (and I feel they have), they have to embrace the other end of the spectrum where he's not the only hero running around in the world. Like, I get that he's the champion of NYC so to speak, but if you're gonna reboot the character AGAIN, you can't just keep him contained in one place. Hell the comics have had Spidey go on adventures outside of Queens and NYC. I'd argue him venturing out in the MCU is more of a breath of fresh air.
And honestly I am just confused on the hate towards Peter from NY, like Mysterio is a European hero at best and of course it's still murder, it's not like Peter is being accused of killing off the disappeared Steve Rogers (tho I'm honestly surprised he wasn't blamed for that yet lol), someone who means something to all of America itself, but especially Brooklyn
I love how the vulture is pretty much Green goblin without being Green goblin, the vulture suit is the goblin glider it even has green eyes. Also it's the farther of one of his class mates.
While I'm glad we didn't get another origin story, the fact that none of Peter's motivations seem to come from his uncle's death was kind of a letdown. We can deduce that May's concern for Peter stems a little from her husband's death, but other than that... nothing. And I think Peter is a little too earnest even though I like Tom Holland. But am I alone in liking Far from Home more?
Totally agree with carboni. Movies a lot of fun, Holland is great, but is just missing something. It doesn’t feel like it has the weight or stakes of other spidey movies. Also agree Tony could’ve been dialed down a bit. Having said that still enjoy this movie a lot
For me, the Spider-Man movies since just haven’t quite had the heart that the first 2 (especially number 2) Raimi movies had. Just the tender scenes with Peter and Aunt Nay or Mary Jane. I know Kinda Funny ripped on the Peter-MJ relationship but it’s still so sweet to me.
The best part of this whole review is when they make a Spider-man PS4 reference about the backpacks and then Nick looks around trying not to look confused and makes an improv-y joke about the backpack coming back to kill him, and just EVERYONE quietly, to themselves just shakes their head like "Just let him go, it's okay" as he jumps back into the plot.
Tim, _Spider-Man: Homecoming_ is set 2 months after _Civil War_ meaning this is 2016. So Battle of New York was four years ago, not six (or eight, as the movie states). _Infinity War_ was set in 2018, two years after _Civil War_
I have this theory that Tom holland didn’t have a real connection with uncle Ben in this universe. It almost feel like this Peter Parker moved in with aunt may after the death of Uncle Ben. I wouldn’t talk with Ned like “everything that’s happened with May” when referencing Uncle Ben like it didn’t affect him too. His motivation seems to be fueled more by Tony Stark than by his uncles.
The backpack wasn't stolen. If you look at the scene carefully, he carelessly webs the backpack to the dumpster, and when he comes back, the dumpster's gone.
What i always liked about the Rami films that we have yet to see with Tom's Peter, is how he showed the struggle within Peter between being the hero and being selfish. This was espicially true in SpiderMan 2. Peter gets fired, doesnt get the girl, can barely afford to pay his rent and yet he has superhuman strength, can climb walls etc. Thats why SpiderMan is so popular, because everyone can relate to that. I like Toms version but he gets everything handed to him, he never seems to struggle, he gets the girl . It does look like No Way Home is going to change that but we have yet to see any real consequences of Peter trying to live a double life
Only difference being we care about Tom Hollands spiderman and his peter. Tobey imo was unlikeable and just bad. And I don’t agree at all that he gets everything “handed” to him. Look at his suit, he doesn’t get given it, he earns it in civil war and he is given it only with training wheels, which he overrules and breaks into, causing him to fail and gets it taken from him, he struggles at school in terms of academic activities and he only gets the girl through charm but doesn’t get her in the end because he realises what he has to do to stop her dad. Tom goes through a lot of pain and struggle and a damn truck load more than tobey ever had to do. “Get up spiderman is a damn good line and scene. Imo it goes Andrew/ Tom and then tobey in terms of likeability and commitment to the character.
@@aoe41015 what movie did you watch? He doesnt "earn" anything in civil war, tony literally gives it to him because he was in "need of an upgrade", when do we ever see him struggling academically?? Tobys peter had to deal with everyday struggles that we all deal with in every day life in the real world. He had to lewrn to put others before himself because thats what makes a hero. Toms peter is completley selfish and only does things for himself and his own needs.. I like toms spiderman dont get me wrong but i think the way the character is written is fundamentally flawed. Also a minor gripe but it erks me that they feel the need to constantly swap his suits out. His civil war/homecoming suit is almost perfect yet he has only worn it a handful of times then it gets completley replaced in far from home
The thing about the "If you need the suit you shouldn't have it" stuff is that it would have been amazing if the movies had any interest in actually embracing that message. I love that this movie ends with the "it's okay to stay as a friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man" message but every subsequent appearance in the MCU doubles and triples down on the parts of this movie we were expressly told weren't necessary.
My unpopular opinion is that they haven’t really nailed the Peter Parker/Spider-Man dynamic in any of these movies (besides Spider-Verse). I enjoy these movies cuz I love Spider-Man as a character but idk something always seems to be missing from all of these movies.
To answer Anthony’s question about them selling the small spider drone, yes they did. I found one and bought it at a Walmart and it’s in my closet to this day.
I was excited to listen to this one! So excited that I stopped after the into, rewatch Homecoming and Far From Home, them came back to finish it! So ready for next week's conversation!
I really loved this movie when it came out, but now I'm lukewarm on it for most of the reasons Carboni pointed out. I like this movie a HELL of a lot better than Far From Home though.
We don’t need to see Ben get shot again, but him barely having a presence is extremely jarring because he’s the exact reason why Peter puts the suit on. I feel like he had more of a presence in Civil War when Peter tells Tony “if you do what I can but don’t, and then the bad things happen, they happen because of you.” I love a lot of this movie and I think it’s way better than Far From Home, but I do think it lacks some style and the epic-ness of the Raimi films. I will say that the Vulture twist is brilliant and the most Spider-Man thing about this movie. There’s only like 3 scenes with genuine tension in this, and that’s one of them. Keaton was great. A lot of MCU Spidey feels a little too kiddie and cartoony for me. Say whatever you want about Raimi or Webb, but at least their films had several moments of sincerity and heart with characters talking for more than 2 minutes without humor undercutting it. I feel like the realness is missing in these movies, but No Way Home seems to be fixing that based on the trailers.
@@AlexLove631 Ugh. The beef joke on the plane. I really enjoyed the movie, but that particular scene was one of the worst in the entire MCU. Agree about the GOTG. I think out of all the MCU, they get the humor and emotion balance to near 50/50. But Gunn really knows how to write that stuff, so I'm not surprised. It's why I feel like his Suicide Squad is probably the best DCEU film as a whole.
@@War624 it’s like you read my mind. I was specifically about the plane scene in Shang-Chi. Most annoying thing. I really started to notice the forced humor from 2016 onward starting with Doctor Strange. Truly, James Gunn’s humor is by far my favorite from the MCU. And his Suicide Squad was perfection.
I wouldn't mind if they made Peter's parents Shield agents like in the comics. They can show them saving Wolverine like in the comics. Just don't have it be a plot point. Except maybe Nick Fury trying to relate to Peter by bringing them up.
I like this movie but am I the only one that feels like Tom Holland as Peter is just too much sometimes?, Idk maybe it’s just Andrew and Tobey’s Spider-Man that makes me feel that way.
Andy’s plot songs are just bangers. This might be my 2nd fave plot song. Sorry Andy don’t ever think your going to top your Scott pilgrim song that’s like a classic👏🏽
1:09:27 bizarre to hear Nick say this after being one of the top things he was praising about TASM2 like a week ago, true for the first one (TASM) though
My problem with this movie is that Tony Stark clearly screwed over the vulture but no one, Spider-Man included, does anything to address that. Tony Stark screws over vulture, vulture gets pushed to crime out of desperation, Spider-Man kicks his ass and throws him in prison. Tony doesn’t actually have to own up to any of the mistakes he made, Peter should’ve held him accountable.
That wasn't Tony though - that was the Department of Damage Control, the government. Those are the people who showed up to take over the project. It was a joint effort between Tony and the government (announced on the news) to get the dangerous weapons off the street. It isn't Tony's fault that the city didn't honor their contract with those workers or reassign them to a different job, or that federal government didn't ensure that the transition was smoother. Tony was just the face on news, an easy target. And they only proved how urgent it was to do that by then becoming dealers that put those weapons in the hands of criminals. Vulture may not kill innocent people directly, but he put weapons in the hands of people who do.
I genuinely think this movie is better than Spider-Man 2. I rewatched Spider-Man 2 last night and I just...I don't get the love for that film. It has its moments, Alfred Molina is great, but Tobey plays such an unlikeable version of Peter Parker. You want to punch him in the face the whole time and the romance angle with Mary Jane just doesn't work. Maybe it's because the 'I love you but I can't be with you and I can't tell you why' trope has grown stale these days, but even excusing those infuriating, eye-rolling scenes, I still don't buy the relationship between them. I don't think Kirsten Dunst is a good Mary Jane. Her co-star in the play is a more believable MJ. James Franco's Harry and his whole arc is frustrating, too. Another situation where simple communication would fix things or at least avoid the forced drama between characters. And even though the action scenes between Spider-Man and Doc Ock are good, the complete lack of jokes and banter from Spider-Man are jarring. Doc Ock makes humorous comments throughout the movie, but I don't think Spider-Man makes a single one. Tom Holland being in the MCU doesn't even factor into my feelings when comparing these films. He's clearly a better Peter Parker and Spider-Man. He acts in ways that make Tobey look like a dead-eyed mannequin.
But they set up that there was already conflict between shocker 1 and Toombs. So that was the build up of that. Did the gag take away sure but probably Toombs really didn’t care since he already viewed Shocker 1 as a screw up and arrogant
Around 1:04:00 it's nitpicky and never ruin my investment in the movie, but with the opening of no way home and ending of far from home, it annoys me noone ever looked at the homework in the bookbag covered in webs and see a "property of Peter Parker" type thing (in a more hopefully subtle manner like his name on the homework lol) and tried to connect the dots(sure Peter could think up that spider man is a hero who still bookbags from nerds, but idk, chief😅)
2:21:00 Even though her initials are MJ, she’s Michelle Jones and not Mary-Jane. So there wouldn’t necessarily be any blowback for a “MJ being a person of colour”
I feel like it's a cop out and I hope in the college trilogy, MJ becomes an actress and her stage name is Mary Jane. That'd be a cool way to fit it in.
This movie is such an honest in universe interpretation of Spider-Man, when you think about it every kid in the world would want to be an Avenger and then Pete actually has a feasible chance at doing so, of course it would be a big goal for him because he's a kid who wants to do good and the Avengers are the ultimate good guys in this universe.. This isn't the 616 Spidey, and it isn't trying to be so I personally think the "iron man jr" people aren't looking at the full picture. The entire point of the movie is showing that the Stark tech is too much and isn't necessary and showing Pete make the decision of "I'm not an Avenger, I'm Spider-Man" and I love it. This Spider-Man is one the mcu wants to grow with it's audience, they want us to see him fuck up and keep going, they want us to see this dumb lovable kid turn into a Spider-Man we all can be proud of. Much like Into the Spider-Verse is a love letter to what Spider-Man was and what it evolved into I think No Way Home is gonna be a love letter to the live action Spider-Men and I can't wait. Spider-Man is so special to so many of us and I think bagging on interpretations for "not being xyz and too xyz" is such a disservice to the character and the people behind these films. I love all my webheads
@@Mankysausage I think Spider-Man 2 more than Homecoming for one simple reason. I care about Peter in Spider-Man 2 where I feel like I'm supposed to care about Peter in Homecoming. This movie massively lacks realism and heart in my opinion, but a great story, motivations and villains are what bring it into the discussion as one of the best Spider-Man movies.
I always thought Pepper shuts it down because she doesn't want the story to be "we made a snap decision to get engaged because Spider-Man didn't want to join the Avengers"
I've tried to watch this movie 3 times and fell asleep. Only spidey movie that's ever happened. Overrated as a movie, but Tom Holland is a homerun as spiderman. His interactions in civil war is like straight from the comics
My friend and I got high on edibles the night they came out(we thought they came out in the morning) so we were high as fuck struggling to get tix lol. I got 8 for imax opening night for my friends and I
Before Shang-chi this was my clear number 2 MCU movie behind Black Panther. There is so much to draw outta this movie. The scene with him lifting the building off of him was/is a fucking inspiring moment. I have to watch this again. The thing that made me not go back to this movie is far from home was only ok. You can feel the struggle for power between Disney and Sony in that movie and as a result it felt like Disney didn't want to further invest the MCU into that that world. Which breaks my heart as it makes Home coming feel trapped under the building of corporations fighting each other. I'm not excited for No Way Home for this reason as well. I don't want another movie were Disney is timid with investing in Spider-Man thus making the world feel and having to send Peter out of NY to get away from the Avengers.
Anthony Carboni: you are a national treasure and should rule the roost of KF. This is one Spiderman movie i enjoy...with a lot of caveats. Keaton is perfection here, as always and i do enjoy Tom Holland's enthusiasm and generally the portrayal of a early high school Peter. But i don't love it, and it doesn't hold the repeat watchability of ASM 1 or Far From Home. I dunno, if i hadn't seen Garfield as Spiderman or the perfect chemistry of him and Gwen, this movie may have excited me more. For one thing, i HATE all the MCU spider suits. They just plain suck and make Spiderman feel more like Iron Man Jr than Spidey. Spidey's tech should be his and his alone and for such a big piece of the Spiderverse to pull me out of the experience is an epic fail. That's not to say i dislike the father son thing between him and RDJ, i like that part. I appreciate the attempt at making a high school comedy but the negative side to that is that the jokes get so stale after the first watch. Some of the comedy still works. FFH is way better and NWH looks great but i just don't think anything will ever top ASM1 for me. Garfield>Holland>>>>>>>>>>>Satan>Maguire
Of course they finally get the whole cast again back for the MCU one. This is one of my least favorite Spider-Man movie. It's crazy how much I've been agreeing with Anthony this whole run. This movie was so light and way too connected to Iron Man.
This is genuinely one of my favorite Kinda Funny podcast series’s and a highlight of my week. Love having Anthony on this and I hope he’ll be on the No Way Home one.
Honestly atp I think “in review” is the flagship series for KF
@@patriots234 atp?
@@NoizeTank “at this point”
Andy is bringing a great energy, on the streams yesterday too. You can tell he’s been waiting eagerly to get back on content and i love it. Hope you are doing well andy, my best to you and your family.
Peter having to lift the building is such a great moment. He's scared, alone, and physically stuck. He cries out for help and he realizes that nobody is coming to save him. He's gotta do it on his own.
30:30 i don’t think the criticism falls flat because while i LOVE that he fought Vulture by himself in the homemade suit, they kinda don’t start fresh from there, Far From Home kinda picks up and does the same thing where Pete is just using the 100 million dollar Iron Spider suit that’s he’s definitely gonna wear for a chunk of No Way Home. I do love these Tom Holland movies but i do wish we saw Peter do more on his own. It seems like they’re dragging out this arc of “hey I’m Spider-Man and i gotta learn to be my own superhero and step out of the shadow” when that arc should have ended in Homecoming when he beat Vulture with the homemade suit
But either way this was a fun episode yall!
100% I just commented something similar haha. It's like we had this awesome arc in this movie and then completely forgot about it moving forward.
But that's what makes it so different from the other iterations of that character. He has to LEARN to do it on his own. The others always had to do it alone. There's no lesson, there. Not as much growth. This version of Spiderman has more of a coming-of-age theme to it. It should be remembered that Peter in the MCU becomes Spider-Man at fifteen. He's a mere sophomore in high school. Earlier versions of him become a superhero, not long before graduating from high school. Given his age at the time, and the fact that in the MCU he grew up around many superheroes whom he looked up to, it makes sense that he has as much help as he does. I get that the comic book purists WANT a certain version of Spider-Man, but as different as this one starts off as, it doesn't make it bad or wrong. So the criticism is less of criticism, and more a personal preference for how an audience member wishes to experience the character. And it does kind of fall flat as a criticism because, you see him having to become his own hero more and more each movie, regardless of the suit he's wearing, especially after Tony dies. That was the real turning point. It all just comes down to purists having a specific preference, as opposed to being a real critique of the writing. That whole "stick to the source material" argument gets old, it loses its credibility, and it prevents adapted movies from being able to do anything new and interesting, moving forward.
"We're not there yet" of Peter thinking Tony is hugging him is ANOTHER thing paid off in Endgame with Tony finally hugging Peter when he sees him after he's un-dusted.
It's even better because both hugs were improvised by the actors. Tom improvised his whole "I don't wanna go" bit. And RDJ improvised the hug after The Blip.
Andy: it’s about damn time someone right the wrongs of the first list
Bless: 🤔🤔Weren’t you here last time???
Andy:….yea I was 😅😅
Rewatched this one last week- is it just me or is this one of the most “comic book-y” comic book movies ever made? I can picture the entire thing in panels, every line of dialogue feels like it belongs in a word bubble, it’s uncanny.
Eh, I'd say Spider Verse would be the most comic book-y movie ever
@@JoshMarshain wasn’t the question, but go off
I don’t agree with that. I think the old Batman movies are the most comic booky movies ever made.
@@BillSavage I said “one of”.
Nick: “In the old movies Spider-Man has this dark cloud over him the whole time because he’s being haunted by the ghost of this big mistake.”
You’re right… and that’s what makes Spider-Man, Spider-Man and is exactly what this movie is missing for me.
I love this movie so much. One of my top-tier MCU movies and second favorite Spider-man after Spider-verse.
37:19 This, along with everything else, is why we need Andy here every week. 😂
I try to rewatch this movie with the perspective that it was made at a time when people were sick of the origin story and didn’t care for another Uncle Ben subplot. A lot of fans also wanted to see him interacting with other superheroes like Iron Man because we had so many solo films and wanted something different. But now, I think the pendulum needs to swing back. A lot of people like me now want a smaller scale and more personal story. Hopefully after NWH.
Movie is a lot of fun and Tom is a great Peter/Spidey, but I agree with Carboni that this lacks stakes. And a large part of that is giving Spidey a billionaire mentor when he's arguably the most DIY superhero.
This does feel like such a sidekick spinoff story. You could take out Spider-Man and Iron Man and replace them with Robin and Batman and it's the same thing as the sidekick trying to prove themselves to the main hero.
I been waiting all week for this! My favorite show. Also glad to see u back Andy❤️
I feel like the MCU Spider-Man misses a lot of the important stuff I like about Spidey (most of his supporting cast's representation, his working class roots, etc) but ultimately these are good enjoyable movies. I don't think any one version has got it perfect sadly.
MCU Spider-man is rich? I missed that storyline. Remind where that is in this movie?
@@AGEE_95 I will once you remind me where I said that
@@KobytheHero Since when did he not have working-class roots? And if he apparently didn't... Where was he upper-class, instead? Or, where was he straight-up poor? The fact that he is working-class definitely was not missing, even if there were some other elements that weren't included in the MCU iteration of these films.
@@AGEE_95 Yeah I'm not gonna debate with you. You're allowed to be wrong
@@KobytheHero Point made, thanks. There's no debating it so choosing not to, is a good choice you're making. At least you're aware of how wrong you really are.
To this day Homecoming is #3 in my MCU ranking behind Infinity War and Endgame. I love this movie.
The point of the smart suit is to show that Peter isn't ready or shouldn't even be around all the shit that would come with actually being Iron Man/An Avenger like he's trying to be.
It's Spider-Man suddenly trying to handle all the soldier warrior stuff of Iron Man and Cap Which ain't him.
2:28:50 About what Tim said, I think Aunt May knowing would work a lot better in FFH if there HADN'T been The Snap. After Thanos killing Peter, I feel like May should be terrified of him continuing to be Spider-Man, or at least extremely conflicted.
I always thought part of the "too much Iron Man" criticism was a muddy set of motives at the end, like are his motives to stop this crazy tech from getting in the wrong hands out of the goodness of his heart or are they at least in part to impress Tony Stark by saving his stuff and prove to the hero community that he can hang (even though he doesn't go full Avenger when given the chance).
I don't even personally align with that take I just thought that was the logic behind it, that his involvement in the story can take away from Spider-Man's character.
If you guys want to have Anthony and Bless back along with the original 5 for MCU in Review NWH, I'm totally okay with that. Just let it be 5 hours of chaos. You can even throw in Barrett as Dennis Leary's ghost.
No better thing to do at work than listen to this extraordinary group of gentlemen
Biggest gripe with the movie is Tony giving Peter a suit with a secret AI with secret power ups, and he gets mad at Peter for using it. He puts all the blame on him for using the suit wrong, but he himself is to blame just as much for giving a teenager his own iron suit.
Well he hijacked the suit and took a shortcut.
I love this Spider-Man movie, my only critique is that Peter doesn’t feel like a “Friendly Neighborhood” Spidey
But... the old lady and the churro.... and the bike... LOL.
One unavoidable thing that always bugged me about this movie (and even the next one) was that because of the last two Spider trilogies being so set in the heart of the city the Holland Spider-Man has been forced to be just about anywhere else to avoid parallels, similarities or samey-ness from the last 5 movies.
We see him in the suburbs of NYC, Germany, England, Italy and even SPACE but New York City with its massive building to swing from is supposedly his MOST notable playground and the place he vows to defend yet we haven't seen too much of him in Manhattan (which, not exactly a small part of NYC) and it feels more and more like that was to distance themselves from the past, which is necessary, its just another one of those things that makes me think "Ah, I wish this was made in a world where those first 5 movies didn't exist so they can do some more classic Spider-Man stuff without worrying about what was done before".
But it seems enough time has passed that they're willing to shift back to that kind of New York based hero of the city stuff in No Way Home, and hopefully this iteration of Spider-Man gets HIS savior of the city moment to become New York's beloved hero like the other two did, and it'll feel more earned than it ever did before.
I dunno, I just think the criticism of him not staying true to the "tradition", is kind of dumb because, you want to do something different with the character after 5 movies of essentially being the same thing. If you want the character to just be in NYC, well... then just watch those previous 5 movies. Fact of the matter is, those movies exist, and if this new set of movies want to differentiate themselves (and I feel they have), they have to embrace the other end of the spectrum where he's not the only hero running around in the world. Like, I get that he's the champion of NYC so to speak, but if you're gonna reboot the character AGAIN, you can't just keep him contained in one place. Hell the comics have had Spidey go on adventures outside of Queens and NYC. I'd argue him venturing out in the MCU is more of a breath of fresh air.
And honestly I am just confused on the hate towards Peter from NY, like Mysterio is a European hero at best and of course it's still murder, it's not like Peter is being accused of killing off the disappeared Steve Rogers (tho I'm honestly surprised he wasn't blamed for that yet lol), someone who means something to all of America itself, but especially Brooklyn
I always took the spider theme at the start over the marvel logo was like marvel celebrating like ‘we got him back, let’s go!’
My favorite part about rewatching MCU movies is then watching the in review again lmao these are the best
I love how the vulture is pretty much Green goblin without being Green goblin, the vulture suit is the goblin glider it even has green eyes. Also it's the farther of one of his class mates.
While I'm glad we didn't get another origin story, the fact that none of Peter's motivations seem to come from his uncle's death was kind of a letdown. We can deduce that May's concern for Peter stems a little from her husband's death, but other than that... nothing. And I think Peter is a little too earnest even though I like Tom Holland. But am I alone in liking Far from Home more?
Totally agree with carboni. Movies a lot of fun, Holland is great, but is just missing something. It doesn’t feel like it has the weight or stakes of other spidey movies. Also agree Tony could’ve been dialed down a bit. Having said that still enjoy this movie a lot
For me, the Spider-Man movies since just haven’t quite had the heart that the first 2 (especially number 2) Raimi movies had. Just the tender scenes with Peter and Aunt Nay or Mary Jane. I know Kinda Funny ripped on the Peter-MJ relationship but it’s still so sweet to me.
*May lol
As a Dominican I find it hilarious that Andy couldn’t really understand the deli owner. Our spanish is very weird 😂
The best part of this whole review is when they make a Spider-man PS4 reference about the backpacks and then Nick looks around trying not to look confused and makes an improv-y joke about the backpack coming back to kill him, and just EVERYONE quietly, to themselves just shakes their head like "Just let him go, it's okay" as he jumps back into the plot.
My friend went to the bathroom during the car conversation. When she came back we told her she might as well go home 😂
"If you're nothing without the suit then you shouldn't have it" Ahhh, so good
Blessing's opening remarks for this film were right on the money.
Tim, _Spider-Man: Homecoming_ is set 2 months after _Civil War_ meaning this is 2016. So Battle of New York was four years ago, not six (or eight, as the movie states). _Infinity War_ was set in 2018, two years after _Civil War_
This rewatch is just pure gold.
I have this theory that Tom holland didn’t have a real connection with uncle Ben in this universe. It almost feel like this Peter Parker moved in with aunt may after the death of Uncle Ben. I wouldn’t talk with Ned like “everything that’s happened with May” when referencing Uncle Ben like it didn’t affect him too. His motivation seems to be fueled more by Tony Stark than by his uncles.
The backpack wasn't stolen. If you look at the scene carefully, he carelessly webs the backpack to the dumpster, and when he comes back, the dumpster's gone.
Jenny Nicholson said it best when it comes to the friend dynamics: "It's just Hey, Arnold!"
So I’m not the biggest Spiderman movie fan but I've started watching them because I enjoy these reviews so much.
Unrelated. I wish Anthony Hopkins had more onscreen time as Odin.
I know when these rewatch episodes are released but that doesn’t stop me from checking to see if they’re posted throughout the week hahaha
It’s Donkey Kong December!!!!!
What i always liked about the Rami films that we have yet to see with Tom's Peter, is how he showed the struggle within Peter between being the hero and being selfish. This was espicially true in SpiderMan 2. Peter gets fired, doesnt get the girl, can barely afford to pay his rent and yet he has superhuman strength, can climb walls etc.
Thats why SpiderMan is so popular, because everyone can relate to that.
I like Toms version but he gets everything handed to him, he never seems to struggle, he gets the girl . It does look like No Way Home is going to change that but we have yet to see any real consequences of Peter trying to live a double life
Only difference being we care about Tom Hollands spiderman and his peter. Tobey imo was unlikeable and just bad. And I don’t agree at all that he gets everything “handed” to him. Look at his suit, he doesn’t get given it, he earns it in civil war and he is given it only with training wheels, which he overrules and breaks into, causing him to fail and gets it taken from him, he struggles at school in terms of academic activities and he only gets the girl through charm but doesn’t get her in the end because he realises what he has to do to stop her dad. Tom goes through a lot of pain and struggle and a damn truck load more than tobey ever had to do. “Get up spiderman is a damn good line and scene. Imo it goes Andrew/ Tom and then tobey in terms of likeability and commitment to the character.
@@aoe41015 what movie did you watch? He doesnt "earn" anything in civil war, tony literally gives it to him because he was in "need of an upgrade", when do we ever see him struggling academically??
Tobys peter had to deal with everyday struggles that we all deal with in every day life in the real world. He had to lewrn to put others before himself because thats what makes a hero. Toms peter is completley selfish and only does things for himself and his own needs..
I like toms spiderman dont get me wrong but i think the way the character is written is fundamentally flawed.
Also a minor gripe but it erks me that they feel the need to constantly swap his suits out. His civil war/homecoming suit is almost perfect yet he has only worn it a handful of times then it gets completley replaced in far from home
I went and bought a ticket for No Way Home right after the topic came up. I’ve never bought tickets before a film’s release.
I like how in the trailer during the "hug" scene, Tony said good luck kid, while in the movie he gave a callous "bye"
The thing about the "If you need the suit you shouldn't have it" stuff is that it would have been amazing if the movies had any interest in actually embracing that message. I love that this movie ends with the "it's okay to stay as a friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man" message but every subsequent appearance in the MCU doubles and triples down on the parts of this movie we were expressly told weren't necessary.
Yeah, this movie sets up such a good spider-man movie, but the sequel while fun just was not a good Spider-man movie.
My unpopular opinion is that they haven’t really nailed the Peter Parker/Spider-Man dynamic in any of these movies (besides Spider-Verse). I enjoy these movies cuz I love Spider-Man as a character but idk something always seems to be missing from all of these movies.
No lies detected. We haven't gotten our RDJ Iron Man or our Reeve Superman yet.
@@KobytheHero Exactly! You put it into perfect terms, cheers man
To answer Anthony’s question about them selling the small spider drone, yes they did. I found one and bought it at a Walmart and it’s in my closet to this day.
I was excited to listen to this one! So excited that I stopped after the into, rewatch Homecoming and Far From Home, them came back to finish it!
So ready for next week's conversation!
I really loved this movie when it came out, but now I'm lukewarm on it for most of the reasons Carboni pointed out. I like this movie a HELL of a lot better than Far From Home though.
1:41:13 Tim those Scorpion tattoos are straight out of the ultimate universe scorpion. The MCU version's whole look is based off of ultimate Scorpion
I imagine Sony and Marvel have a Vin Diesel/Dwayne Johnson style feud over whose name gets to stay on the opening credits longer
We don’t need to see Ben get shot again, but him barely having a presence is extremely jarring because he’s the exact reason why Peter puts the suit on. I feel like he had more of a presence in Civil War when Peter tells Tony “if you do what I can but don’t, and then the bad things happen, they happen because of you.”
I love a lot of this movie and I think it’s way better than Far From Home, but I do think it lacks some style and the epic-ness of the Raimi films. I will say that the Vulture twist is brilliant and the most Spider-Man thing about this movie. There’s only like 3 scenes with genuine tension in this, and that’s one of them. Keaton was great.
A lot of MCU Spidey feels a little too kiddie and cartoony for me. Say whatever you want about Raimi or Webb, but at least their films had several moments of sincerity and heart with characters talking for more than 2 minutes without humor undercutting it. I feel like the realness is missing in these movies, but No Way Home seems to be fixing that based on the trailers.
Your point about having moments being undercut with humor could honestly be applied to the nearly entirety of the MCU.
@@War624 which is a shame. Sometimes it works when the humor is good, like the Guardians films. Sometimes it’s forced like in Shang-Chi recently
@@AlexLove631 Ugh. The beef joke on the plane. I really enjoyed the movie, but that particular scene was one of the worst in the entire MCU. Agree about the GOTG. I think out of all the MCU, they get the humor and emotion balance to near 50/50. But Gunn really knows how to write that stuff, so I'm not surprised. It's why I feel like his Suicide Squad is probably the best DCEU film as a whole.
@@War624 it’s like you read my mind. I was specifically about the plane scene in Shang-Chi. Most annoying thing. I really started to notice the forced humor from 2016 onward starting with Doctor Strange.
Truly, James Gunn’s humor is by far my favorite from the MCU. And his Suicide Squad was perfection.
1:04:50 Zach Cherry in both movies. Put some respect on his quirky name😤 😂
Sorry about what happened Andy and your family. Hope your feeling better
I wouldn't mind if they made Peter's parents Shield agents like in the comics. They can show them saving Wolverine like in the comics. Just don't have it be a plot point. Except maybe Nick Fury trying to relate to Peter by bringing them up.
I like this movie but am I the only one that feels like Tom Holland as Peter is just too much sometimes?, Idk maybe it’s just Andrew and Tobey’s Spider-Man that makes me feel that way.
It's both a positive and a negative that nick isn't there when everyone keeps saying ' gag'
Ok KF, I'll give you bonus points for mixing the intro.
Anthony's hair is so good Tim wears a hat.
Been counting down the days for this! 😭 let’s gooo
Andy’s plot songs are just bangers. This might be my 2nd fave plot song. Sorry Andy don’t ever think your going to top your Scott pilgrim song that’s like a classic👏🏽
Welcome back Andy! Thoughts are still with you and your family.
1:09:27 bizarre to hear Nick say this after being one of the top things he was praising about TASM2 like a week ago, true for the first one (TASM) though
My problem with this movie is that Tony Stark clearly screwed over the vulture but no one, Spider-Man included, does anything to address that. Tony Stark screws over vulture, vulture gets pushed to crime out of desperation, Spider-Man kicks his ass and throws him in prison. Tony doesn’t actually have to own up to any of the mistakes he made, Peter should’ve held him accountable.
That wasn't Tony though - that was the Department of Damage Control, the government. Those are the people who showed up to take over the project. It was a joint effort between Tony and the government (announced on the news) to get the dangerous weapons off the street. It isn't Tony's fault that the city didn't honor their contract with those workers or reassign them to a different job, or that federal government didn't ensure that the transition was smoother. Tony was just the face on news, an easy target.
And they only proved how urgent it was to do that by then becoming dealers that put those weapons in the hands of criminals. Vulture may not kill innocent people directly, but he put weapons in the hands of people who do.
Carboni is the puzzle piece that just fits right into the in review content.
The Spider-Man scenes around New York are all you need to see to prove… they completely understand Spider-Man. What a good movie
1:16:45 Carboni with that Majima Everywhere reference
I genuinely think this movie is better than Spider-Man 2. I rewatched Spider-Man 2 last night and I just...I don't get the love for that film. It has its moments, Alfred Molina is great, but Tobey plays such an unlikeable version of Peter Parker. You want to punch him in the face the whole time and the romance angle with Mary Jane just doesn't work. Maybe it's because the 'I love you but I can't be with you and I can't tell you why' trope has grown stale these days, but even excusing those infuriating, eye-rolling scenes, I still don't buy the relationship between them. I don't think Kirsten Dunst is a good Mary Jane. Her co-star in the play is a more believable MJ. James Franco's Harry and his whole arc is frustrating, too. Another situation where simple communication would fix things or at least avoid the forced drama between characters. And even though the action scenes between Spider-Man and Doc Ock are good, the complete lack of jokes and banter from Spider-Man are jarring. Doc Ock makes humorous comments throughout the movie, but I don't think Spider-Man makes a single one.
Tom Holland being in the MCU doesn't even factor into my feelings when comparing these films. He's clearly a better Peter Parker and Spider-Man. He acts in ways that make Tobey look like a dead-eyed mannequin.
Carboni really thinking Spiderman would have gotten shot in tht car scene 😆 like what. He coulda said an Andrew line. Oh no my weakness. Small guns 😆
Tim is completely right. Tony proposed at the press conference.
Anthony and Nick are the same age??!!
I think that was the best plot song yet !
1:47:24 Kevin Feige confirmed that during a Reddit AMA, Tim... Gotta check the facts before doing the rewatches!
But they set up that there was already conflict between shocker 1 and Toombs. So that was the build up of that. Did the gag take away sure but probably Toombs really didn’t care since he already viewed Shocker 1 as a screw up and arrogant
Around 1:04:00 it's nitpicky and never ruin my investment in the movie, but with the opening of no way home and ending of far from home, it annoys me noone ever looked at the homework in the bookbag covered in webs and see a "property of Peter Parker" type thing (in a more hopefully subtle manner like his name on the homework lol) and tried to connect the dots(sure Peter could think up that spider man is a hero who still bookbags from nerds, but idk, chief😅)
32:53
2:12:20
2:21:00 Even though her initials are MJ, she’s Michelle Jones and not Mary-Jane. So there wouldn’t necessarily be any blowback for a “MJ being a person of colour”
I feel like it's a cop out and I hope in the college trilogy, MJ becomes an actress and her stage name is Mary Jane. That'd be a cool way to fit it in.
This movie is such an honest in universe interpretation of Spider-Man, when you think about it every kid in the world would want to be an Avenger and then Pete actually has a feasible chance at doing so, of course it would be a big goal for him because he's a kid who wants to do good and the Avengers are the ultimate good guys in this universe.. This isn't the 616 Spidey, and it isn't trying to be so I personally think the "iron man jr" people aren't looking at the full picture. The entire point of the movie is showing that the Stark tech is too much and isn't necessary and showing Pete make the decision of "I'm not an Avenger, I'm Spider-Man" and I love it. This Spider-Man is one the mcu wants to grow with it's audience, they want us to see him fuck up and keep going, they want us to see this dumb lovable kid turn into a Spider-Man we all can be proud of. Much like Into the Spider-Verse is a love letter to what Spider-Man was and what it evolved into I think No Way Home is gonna be a love letter to the live action Spider-Men and I can't wait. Spider-Man is so special to so many of us and I think bagging on interpretations for "not being xyz and too xyz" is such a disservice to the character and the people behind these films. I love all my webheads
IMO the BEST live action Spider-Man movie yet. Even better that Spider-Man 2.
People who disagree are blinded by nostalgia
Not sure if I agree it is the best, but Homecoming is the most fun live action Spider-Man movie.
@@Mankysausage People who agree are blinded by recency bias. See, I can do it too
@@Mankysausage I think Spider-Man 2 more than Homecoming for one simple reason. I care about Peter in Spider-Man 2 where I feel like I'm supposed to care about Peter in Homecoming. This movie massively lacks realism and heart in my opinion, but a great story, motivations and villains are what bring it into the discussion as one of the best Spider-Man movies.
@@TheMixedOnes didn’t far from home come out after this?
Gawd I love AC. We see Spidey movies eye to eye
I want the do a flip guy to be a pro Spidey supporter in no way home
I always thought Pepper shuts it down because she doesn't want the story to be "we made a snap decision to get engaged because Spider-Man didn't want to join the Avengers"
2:38:28 full of carbs, gotta get him to the premier with the spiderboys
Has it be confirmed that Liz Toomes will be in X Men?
Blessing congrats on 30 under 30
The amount of effort you guys put in, you should re rank these films. #spidermanrecount #justiceforspiderman.
I like the Spurs hoodie Andy
I hope Anthony Carboni goes with you guys to watch Spider-Man No Way Home… it just won’t be right without him.
I've tried to watch this movie 3 times and fell asleep. Only spidey movie that's ever happened. Overrated as a movie, but Tom Holland is a homerun as spiderman. His interactions in civil war is like straight from the comics
My friend and I got high on edibles the night they came out(we thought they came out in the morning) so we were high as fuck struggling to get tix lol. I got 8 for imax opening night for my friends and I
Before Shang-chi this was my clear number 2 MCU movie behind Black Panther.
There is so much to draw outta this movie.
The scene with him lifting the building off of him was/is a fucking inspiring moment.
I have to watch this again. The thing that made me not go back to this movie is far from home was only ok. You can feel the struggle for power between Disney and Sony in that movie and as a result it felt like Disney didn't want to further invest the MCU into that that world. Which breaks my heart as it makes Home coming feel trapped under the building of corporations fighting each other.
I'm not excited for No Way Home for this reason as well. I don't want another movie were Disney is timid with investing in Spider-Man thus making the world feel and having to send Peter out of NY to get away from the Avengers.
y’all still not in the studio?
Next year. They are building a new studio atm
Carboni is crazy this is easy the 2nd best Spidey after Spider-Verse
Anthony Carboni: you are a national treasure and should rule the roost of KF. This is one Spiderman movie i enjoy...with a lot of caveats. Keaton is perfection here, as always and i do enjoy Tom Holland's enthusiasm and generally the portrayal of a early high school Peter. But i don't love it, and it doesn't hold the repeat watchability of ASM 1 or Far From Home. I dunno, if i hadn't seen Garfield as Spiderman or the perfect chemistry of him and Gwen, this movie may have excited me more. For one thing, i HATE all the MCU spider suits. They just plain suck and make Spiderman feel more like Iron Man Jr than Spidey. Spidey's tech should be his and his alone and for such a big piece of the Spiderverse to pull me out of the experience is an epic fail. That's not to say i dislike the father son thing between him and RDJ, i like that part. I appreciate the attempt at making a high school comedy but the negative side to that is that the jokes get so stale after the first watch. Some of the comedy still works. FFH is way better and NWH looks great but i just don't think anything will ever top ASM1 for me. Garfield>Holland>>>>>>>>>>>Satan>Maguire
How do you not fall in love with Karen? The only bad part of MCU Spidey is not getting more of her in later appearances.
Nice
Excuse me, Garcelle Beauvais is famously from the Jamie Foxx show.
Of course they finally get the whole cast again back for the MCU one. This is one of my least favorite Spider-Man movie. It's crazy how much I've been agreeing with Anthony this whole run. This movie was so light and way too connected to Iron Man.
Yoooo blessing with the Jolibee drink. filipinos, rise up!