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No, The Catholic Church is Not Going to "Change its Mind" w/ Trent Horn
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- Опубликовано: 17 авг 2022
- Full Episode: • Trent's Real Name is T...
Trent expresses his frustration at the Fr. James Martin type who seem to only spread confusion and disconnection in the Church.
Trent's Podcast: / thecounseloftrent
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Why must we as Christians adjust our faith and beliefs to make others feel more comfortable. Being a Christian isn’t for comfort it’s for the whole truth.
Good point. For the sake of conversation let me propose a counterpoint. Adjusting Church teaching in accordance with a better understanding of truth and human reality is also uncomfortable for people who prefer sameness.
Because faith is bullshit and no justification for being an asshole.
@@AntonAchondoa Your argument presumes "Church teaching" and "truth" are at odds - If you believe the Church's interpretations of the texts, you accept their teachings as truth. If I didn't accept my Church's teachings as truth, I wouldn't adjust my faith - I'd find a new faith. Human reality is brokenness, which Christian truth is the only answer to (assuming you believe in Christianity). Thus, while teachings may condemn 'human realities', it's in the best interest of those humans that they be told truth. This is coming from a protestant, btw
Truth? It has little to do with truth. That's why it's called faith. Faith is believing despite the lack of evidence. If it was proven true, it wouldn't be called Faith.
@@Nathan411466 yes and no. Faith is extremely valuable in the eyes of god which is why Jesus healed the sick it was their faith in him despite only hearing rumors. We have faith because we know it is the truth not because we think it’s false. And while faith is more important that deductive reasoning to Jesus The father and Holy Spirit we are also lucky to have the Bible and its prophecies that have come true hundreds or thousands of years after being written all pointing to the fact that Jesus in the Son of God born the Virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit. He was crucified and died, to rise again on the 3rd day, officially conquering Death and Sin that entered through 1 man Adam and was removed through Jesus fully man And fully divine, so that we may be saved from the fires of hell.
I feel frustrated when influential Catholics say that they can ignore the dumpster fire and just lead people to God's church. If you continue to ignore the problems, you allow people to be led into sin.
To be fair to Trent and Matt, they never said ignore the problems in the Church. They said you need to be informed, but they also promoted prudence in action. We do ourselves, our families and the Church no favors by exciting our irascible passions in matters out of our direct control. What’s the better course of action, focusing your energies on raising your family in the truth and dialoging with the people in your own community in love, or stressing out over things beyond your control? The Catholic Church is not a democracy. We have no vote. We create change by being the love of Christ in the immediate contexts that our Lord in his providence has placed us in. I’m reminded of Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians 12. You have your place in the body, do what God has made you to do and He will take care of the rest.
Rainbow flags on Altars/Churches is a sacrilege that causes scandal and grevious mortal sin in those souls whom do not reject it outright. Why aren't Bishops and Priests speaking to this? Their silence is culpable. If I ever see one of these sacrileges taking place, I am certain that it would be removed immediately by the offenders after hearing the unapologetic Truth. This is mocking The Eternal God and "...make no mistake, God is NOT mocked." Galatians 6:7
God bless you Trent horn and Matt FRAD for speaking gods truth with honesty and compassion and clearly outlining why there is room for hope in our Catholic Church. I truly appreciated this information.
When people insist that the Catholic Church change its mind about certain issues (LGBT, abortion, etc) they become transparent. We can clearly see that they desire the authority of the Church to back up their views. Without realizing it, they are acknowledging the teaching authority of the Church. What they may not realize is that a church which teaches according to their tastes is not worth any effort. Let them be their own church.
Well, perhaps. But one could make the case that traditionalists refuse to acknowledge that human understanding of God, nature, and truth can develop and be clarified. Everything we know and accept about religion is inevitably filtered through human minds and culture. Spirituality is not a disembodied abstraction removed from human experience.
You don’t need the pope to tell you homosexuality is a sin. It’s in the bible.
You do not need the pope to tell you wearing garments of mixed fabrics is a sin. It is in the Bible.
@@kevinkelly2162 well that’s out of context
yes and the bible is a book that means nothing
it also toold you to have slaves and how to beat them up why do we not have slaves aynmore ifthe lord says its fine?
@Preston Swan the people participating are the victims.
The gates of hell shall never prevail against the Church. Amen
The church is failing a slow painful death the church needs to change something or it will fall
@@liamodonovan6610 the Church is all of us, we have to make the change.
@@humphreyobanor866 The Church is all of us? How?
@@liamodonovan6610 Thats what the arians said that is what many heretics or iconoclastic said that is what the sarracens and many islamic opponents said.
The church is still here.
Benedict said the church will be smaller but more faithful.
Christ will defend his church.
Funny lets look at other protestant denominations that did just that and now they are dying a painful death.
@@vaderkurt7848 the Catholic church is dying as it is there will be no preists we will have to get the local drunk to say mass
As someone who has struggled quite heavily with bisexual feelings, I HOPE the Church will never change its mind on this.
I love Matt's approach to this issue: speak clearly, speak truthfully, but also show love to the person behind the sin.
When we confront someone with a sin of this kind we shouldn't do so simply because it offends US, we should do so out of love, because we want the person committing the sin to be freed of that sin. I think the way Matt has talked about this throughout the interviews he's conducted over the years really captures the essence of what makes Christianity different. Even if we are strict, even if our words may sound harsh, we should always be motivated by the love for our fellow man, and never by hate for the person committing the sin.
@Preston Swan So, what do you think about Adam and Eve. There were no victims there, no one was hurt.
Sin is not just "if there is no victim there is no crime" but about going against God's law
If homosexuality is not wrong, God should have created Adam and Adam, not Adam and Eve.
@Preston Swan Of course, YES. 100%.
@Preston Swan Yes, I'm seriously talking about Adam and Eve.
This was encouraging to hear. Thanks for the great video!
People who believe the Church's teaching on homosexuality can easily change don't fully understand the teachings. Aquinas demonstrates the tapestry of the doctrines relating to sex and if you pull on one thread, many of the others will go as well. They are built on the same core principles. When those core principles are taken out, they can no longer support the other doctrines that had been resting on them either. So these issues may be debated, but it's not a simple matter of changing just one teaching. If it changes, others do as well.
they already changed the teachings from the council of florence in vatican 2
Funny how Jesus forgot to mention anything about it. Just saying.........
@@kevinkelly2162 Jesus Christ defined marriage as between a man and a woman and called sex outside of marriage a sin. What did He fail to mention in regards to this subject?
@@michaelibach9063 When did he do that? Chapter and verse please.
@@kevinkelly2162 It is a logical fallacy known as an "argument from ignorance" to argue a position based on what someone did *not* say. Jesus did *not* say a lot.
Jesus was Jewish. There was no debate about this topic among Jews in first-century Palestine. This was not a point of contention. It was a given. Jesus spoke against the status quo more than one topic, but this wasn't one of them. If we are going to judge his beliefs on this topic based on what he did *not* say, it can go both ways. Since he upended the status quo on some topics but did not do so on this topic, what can we deduce? But again, that's not a valid argument on its own.
We can only go by the evidence we have: the totality of scripture, cultural context, Jesus' actual teachings, and how these teachings passed to the Apostles, their disciples, and the early Church (which we can understand through extra-biblical texts of the time).
Those do not indicate that Jesus thought there was a problem with Jewish teaching on this topic. To believe that he did requires evidence we do not have . . . unless Dan Brown has it. 😀
The uphill battle we face with the current obfuscation of Church teaching is that no one ever repents of anything they don’t see as wrong. It’s only once someone we accept as having authority makes a definitive pronouncement on what is truly right that we can open our hearts and minds to reforming our attitudes and behaviors to get back on the straight and narrow.
Mark Regnerus got very bold in his last book and offered some opinions on these subjects, some purely from the standpoint of demographics (basically, that Christianity and traditional marriage are entwined, and people who give up on religion tend to not get married, and people who don't support traditional marriage teachings tend to just leave the church rather than look for a church with different opinions). And he very much agrees that just as a matter of history, churches that leave behind traditional teachings on marriage tend to just die. It doesn't save them. It hastens their death. He also argues that marriage essentially can't be redefined or altered and Christians in particular aren't good at doing so. You either get a robust vision of traditional marriage (which is often entwined with religion), or people look to other kinds of arrangements (other than marriage) altogether (as well as other spiritual arrangements altogether). And that's an interesting observation.
The Church gave up on traditional marriage when it authorized free annulments to whoever could afford a canon lawyer.
Always helpful getting a perspective from you two gentlemen.
I asked about the pastoral strategy for what to do when a person is obstinate in sin and how to protect yourself if the person in sin tries to have you removed.
Here is what to do below:
You ask a very important question about evangelization! As you can imagine, there is not one perfect way to help people-especially when they are doing something bad for themselves and others!
That said, the first and most important thing to do for those who you are called to lead to the Lord is to pray. Ask the Holy Spirit to help you “see” the person “with His eyes.” Ask Jesus to help you “have His heart” as you “seek to understand” the person. And of course ask the Lord God to “work through you” to draw the person to Him.
If you begin with the above, you will realize that the work is the Lord’s and you are only there as a servant.
Added to the above, remember your own abilities and weaknesses. This will help you realize that you need to know when to listen, when to speak, what to say, and who to move the person to if their problems exceed your abilities. So, and for example, a person may be too close to you to honestly talk about their issues. Or, the person may need a priest to talk to because of the priest’s sacred authority to set repentant sinners free from sin.
In any case, beginning with prayer, having a good handle on your abilities and limits, as well as having trusted priests who can jump in to help, are some of the ways that you can use to help others.
As for protecting yourself-as long as you realize that it is God’s work and you are just a vessel, you can be interiorly “free” to offer good spiritual gifts and let the Holy Spirit take over. This won’t be easy, but it is the best to abandon ourselves to the Lord so that He can get His work done!
God bless,
The Staff of the
Secretariat for Laity, Marriage,
Family Life, and Youth
USCCB
Oh best comment at the end!! About being aware of what is out there but focusing on what I can do ...love my family and raise them in the Catholic faith. I don't get bent all out of shape. I trust God. Ugh but I've got friends who are very very up in arms!!! That is stressful to listen to...and I always try to come back to - what I can do to help ground myself after all this. Thank you!
“You will be hated by all because of my name. But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.”
Mark 13:13
Thank you for sharing this info and for presenting it so clearly.
Since they teach straight people can expand their minds/sexuality to become something else- why then can’t they admit gay people can do the same and have their desires changed?
Exactly, people control their sexuality, not the other way around.
@Preston Swan Pretty much. Don't get me wrong, culture plays a huge part, but sexual praxis is always a choice. Straight, gay, bi or, best of all, celibate, these things are ultimately under human control. God instructs us that certain practices are forbidden, so we must abstain from them.
See Matthew 19:12 "For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs on account of the Kingdom of the heavens. Let the one who can make room for it make room for it.”
I have been awakened into the Traditional Catholic Faith from a cradle Catholic, novus ordo lukewarm believer. And approximately at the same time I was told by my son "Dad I'm gay". I have never experienced heartache like this nor prayed this much. Unfortunately the rest of my family is novus ordo, grey and far more accepting of his situation. It's exceedingly difficult to try to tell someone the truth of the Father when everyone else says something different. We have been subverted by the evil one little by little and there seem to be very few that believe in God, Heaven, hell and satan. I feel heartache looking at the world around me, I cannot imagine how much sadness we bring to the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Please pray for me and my family, as I am praying for yours.
@@andromedamaxima1543 I've been telling him that since he was young
Keep telling him you love him. That’s what Jesus truly would do. Leave the rest to God. This is beyond your power and God can make all things work together for good for those who love him.
@@andromedamaxima1543 Ah, whereas events in Deuteronomy 21:13 - these were of no harm, whatsoever, in contrast? Or in Exodus 21:4?
Much blessings to you and your family, this a cross to bear for both you and your son, may he come to the realization of his error and if he is that way, may he live his life in celibacy, may Saint Michael protect you both.
@@danilocatania5700 thank you and may God bless you and your family as well
Indeed we must be pastoral towards those who experience same sex attraction. However, our pastoral position cannot be different to our doctrinal position - that would be division and, as Christ said, a house divided will fall. There is nothing even remotely loving or kind about encouraging somebody to remain in a state of sin, nor would that be a sound pastoral position.
Martin needs to preach repentence and forgiveness, not accepting sinful behavior. Paul wrote, be not deceived, there is no place in The Kingdom of God for unrepentant muderers, thieves, adulterers, nor homosexuals. Repent and be forgiven, or spend eternity in torment.
Why does the church compare homosexuality to killers and theives gay people are good honest people they are just has any honest religious person
@Preston Swan i absolutely agree with you homosexuality did a lot less harm than what the church did the pope spends most of the time apologising for the damage the church has done it ha caused as lot of trauma
@Preston Swan incorrect
@Preston Swan it's really not, you might wanna get your head checked
Amen!
I keep you in prayer. 🙏
Pints with Aquinas should do a show on the fewness of the saved.
How do you feel about the "fewness of the saved?" Happy? Sad? Do you feel like you are on the right side of things?
@@AntonAchondoa I am hopeful that I will be among the saved, but I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling, especially now that I am past middle age. I think more pastors need to preach about the last four things: death, judgement, heaven and hell.
Amen you guys well said! May God continue to bless you both 🙏🏼🕊️✝️🫶🏼💕
My dad was a priest. If I heard it once it was one thousand times. The Church is not going to change its mind- and she shouldn’t. He was ver pious.
"My dad was a priest". Not a common phrase one hears.
@@Bbos2383 It is in the Eastern Rites
@@Bbos2383 Eastern Church
how was your dad a priest?!!!! certainly not catholic…?! 🫤
@@andromedamaxima1543 He left the priesthood before he got married. I used the wrong tense. ‘My dad had been a priest’, would have more correct. Yes, he was a Catholic priest.
In America you have Priests and Bishops not dissenting directly, while in Germany and Switzerland you have basically all Bishops saying the Church is wrong.
James Martin is not so much catholic as a confusionist.
Not half as much as Pope Francis is a confusionist.
@@joeoleary9010 Well put. Correct. Francis confuses all of us.
It’s time for an update on this conversation.
It *should not* not about matters of mortal sin and what's objectively evil.
@Preston Swan Oh, it is a sinful act, pure and simple, and as far as victims: the very people themselves who engage in it are the victims thereof, as well as those they engage in the actions with, and any and all who observe them in those thoroughly disgusting actions that should never take place at all.
@Preston Swan And it is very wrong indeed, always was, and always will be.
@Preston Swan It was *always* wrong and always will be wrong.
@Preston Swan Oh, and what about an adult human and an adult animal; could that be considered truly consenting? Any sane mind would say that that's not consensual.
Plus, consent is hardly even close to the final criteria for what is permissible; in fact, the only even remotely permissible physically intimate relationship is one man/one woman in true matrimony and within that adding into the mix consenting on both partners, and the most vital ingredient is that the act must be open to making a baby- and no way is same-sex sexual acts open to creating life.
@Preston Swan Yes, I did, and Natural law does prove it to be wrong to begin with. And of course Natural Law is a most acceptable reason, as are those other two that you falsely claimed aren't valid reasons.
As someone who isn't religious, I have to say I at least have a lot of respect for people who actually stick to their religious doctrine properly. Whatever else anyone may say if you claim to be a true believer and think your immortal soul is really on the line and you don't follow commandments from God and just change to suit the current political need then you are clearly not THAT concerned with your soul.
The truth never changes
@Preston Swan It is wrong to engage in sexual acts between two members of the same sex because of the nature of the sexual act itself. To Catholics, the sexual act (also called the marital act) can only ever occur in its proper context of marriage (as the Church understands marriage). A marriage (and sex) is ordered towards union and procreation. Relations between two men or two women is, by its nature, not ordered towards procreation. It is therefore wrong.
This is a chief reason why the use of contraceptives is wrong as well. The nature of the sexual act is changed from one that is open to life to one that is not. It is fundamentally different and opposed to the procreative end of the marital act.
@@bethanyjohnson8001 Two Points:
1) truth never changes, but our understanding of it and how we apply it in our lives can certainly develop.
2) homosexual and non-procreative sexual behaviors can be observed in the animal kingdom, so the "unnatural" argument false apart. If you want to strengthen your argument, you might as well say that religion calls people to a higher order, a supernatural standard that rises above our animalistic instincts. This doesn't make homosexuality immoral per se, but perhaps it falls short of a Biblical understanding of marriage and sexuality.
The Bishop of Rome holds on his shoulders the whole legacy and heritage of the Holy Church.. This legacy and heritage cannot be replaced because of some trend no matter how huge it is.
I had a very holy missionary priest..faithful to God in every way, tell me this: "When you see confusion proliferate, especially in the Church, you are watching the enemy of God in action!" He was a Jesuit..the most faithful and faith filled priest I have ever known! I gave me the truth in clarity..always and in all ways!
weird if the "church" itself can be manipulated by evil ...what chance does a man have? maybe just maybe your church was always evil
@@KortovElphame OUT OF COURTESY AND by way of explanation, I say this..and no more! Many make claims..but the Roman Catholic Church can back up the claims.."it is the Church established by Jesus." Her I am truly fe..in holy mass and the Eucharist..The evil of any mere mortal...cannot touch the infinite power oif God..and GOD IS THERE. If you want more...look up and read the works of the world acknowledged "Church Fathers." The term Catholic was in use within a few years of Christ's death. GOOD BYE..AND GOD BLESS YOU!!
I (me, myself, and I ) have been crucified with Christ, nevertheless, I live. BUT not I... me myself .. with MY desires and rights and opinions , my way or the highway, sooo now Christ lives in me and I give up, totally, my life... Marriage teaches us to die. We do what God says about marriage because we put Him first and not our selfish feelings and wants. It is so so hard to die. BUT WE MUST !!!!
Thank you.
He said they didn’t have the authority to change it.
Can we get Trent to review this? Has the church soften since this was posted?
If you Believe in pride you are not Holy that would be the same as the Mother being Holy
Nobody is required to get married. If somebody is having these feelings toward the same sex what it means is they are not emotionally ready for this. It's fine to be single.
It's way past time that The Catholic Church allow priests to marry. In the Greek Orthodox church, priests can marry, have children and be a model for the flock. Only Bishops in the GOC must be celibate, and most of them are widowers.
End homosexuality in the priesthood and open up the talent pool.
It is allowed in the Eastern Rites for married men to become priests. I have known several and they are as holy and good as celibate priests.
I hope you aren't drawing a co-relation between celibacy and homosexuality in the priesthood. That would be faulty.
Anyway, laypersons like ourselves who haven't made a vow of celibacy in the ministry are also expected to be ideal models of Christian virtues to everyone they encounter or relate to whether they are married or single living chaste lives. St. Paul believed and recommended that Christians should be and remain celibate so that they could focus on and dedicate themselves entirely to God and the building up of Christ's kingdom on earth. (1 Cor 7:32-33, 38). I'm sure Paul had the clergy particularly in mind, since he himself was a minister of the gospel and wished that everyone else could be like him (1 Cor 7:7). Jesus himself says that celibacy is a gift from God and that they who can bear it should for the sake of the kingdom of heaven (Mt 19:11-12). I'm sure Jesus included John the Baptist and had the Essene male Jews who lived in the caves of Qumran in mind. God told the prophet Jeremiah not to take a wife or have children because of his calling, too (Jer 16:1-4).
Consecrating themselves entirely to God and His Church by being celibate, priests can focus exclusively on serving His spiritual family and providing for its needs without any distractions or interference from having to care for one's own biological family as well. Also, a priest shouldn't have to be in the position where he might end up having to neglect his own wife and children for the sake of his flock which would amount to being a violation of his marriage covenant. Holy Matrimony and Holy Orders are the two sacraments of service in the Catholic Church and should never have to compete with each other to their mutual detriment or dissolution. Neither sacrament should be compromised by the other.
There's even a deeper theological reason why Catholic bishops and priests should be and remain celibate. This has to do with the opposition between the profane and the sacred that is rooted in ancient traditional Judaic belief and practice. We read in the Midrash on Psalm 146, paragraph 4, where it is asserted that sexual intercourse will be entirely forbidden at some point in the future. This is explained as an application of the command in Exodus 19:15:
"“Still others say that in the time-to-come sexual intercourse will be entirely forbidden. You can see for yourself why it will be. On the day that the Holy One, blessed be He, revealed Himself on Mount Sinai to give the Torah to the children of Israel, He forbade intercourse for three days, as it is said. . .. Now since God, when he revealed Himself for only one day, forbade intercourse for three days, in the time-to-come, when the presence of God dwells continuously in Israel's midst, will not intercourse be entirely forbidden?”
The ramifications are great here. Marriage and the regular exercise of marital responsibilities that essentially included the procreation of offspring formed a basic norm for the Israelites. It carried the weight of a divine ordinance. However, the Midrash reveals a counter-motif in Judaism that emphasizes the incompatibility of sexual or marital intercourse with a response to God’s presence and participation in his service. It's no surprise, then, that sexual intercourse was forbidden on the Day of Atonement or Yom Kippur (m. Yoma 8:l; b. Yorna 74a; y. Ber. 5:4). Yom Kippur is the holiest day of the year in Judaism. In the time of Jesus, the High Priest made an atoning sacrifice for the sins of the people on the Day of Atonement in the Holy of Holies. This act of paying the penalty for sin brought reconciliation between God and His chosen people in preparation for the new year. It was the High Priest who alone had to make atonement for himself, for his household, and for the people of Israel. He would prepare for several important ritualistic duties starting seven days before Yom Kippur. This meant that the High Priest would be separated from his own household and take up residence inside the Temple. What the High Priest did once a year from the time of Moses until 70 A.D., the Catholic priest does every day of the year when celebrating the Holy sacrifice of the Mass.
@@alexchristopher221 I heard an ex-priest discuss homosexuality in the priesthood and it what he said made sense. Homosexual men, who also strive to ve Catholic select the priesthood for a couple of reasons. 1) they can't get married. 2) staying single would offer too many occasions of sin. Joining the priesthood seems to the best option because regardless of sexuality, everyone takes a vow of celibacy, so it is an even playing field in a sense. It is the vocation that makes the most sense from a gay Catholic's point of view.
@@alexchristopher221 the priesthood and the monasteries have been a hiding place for gay men FOREVER. I went to a Catholic high school and a couple of my classmates went to seminary after and spoke frankly.... MANY are not celibate and VERY gay....not all....but a LOT!
@@alexchristopher221 Further....Catholic priests weren't required to become celibate and could marry prior to the 16th century....so cite the bible all you want.
Greek Orthodox priests marry....and you don't have the kiddie diddling issues the Catholics do. Not saying it's NEVER happened......but supremely minimal.
I didn't know letting people be themselves and hurt no one was evil.
I remember writing something in high school about how sex in the covenant of marriage, abortion, and homosexuality are all related. You take procreation out of the marital act, then everything falls apart.
Why is the term “God “ as we understand it , only enters the Bible with the translation into Latin by St. Gérôme in the 4th century CE. “ Before that the word just wasn’t in the Old Testament . Can someone tell us why ?
Lumen Gentium helped clear up much of what can and cannot change within the Church but boy is it confusing for people first learning this stuff.
We need a church that will change the world, not the other way around...
God is the same, he has been since the very beginning. The word of God doesn't change and that's why we can rely on him completely. God is not like people who change their minds on a whim, he's steadfast and reliable. The world is trying to get the church to bow to pressure from society, it wants the church to buckle and conform to its ways. People will say things such as, "the church needs to get with the times" or "the church needs to stop treating women as second class citizens" or "the church needs to change its stance on same sex marriage and homosexuality in general"........its an attack on God hidden behind a veil of virtue and "inclusion". But there's nothing virtuous about it, they want the church to allow its walls to be breached so that once this happens the floodgates will be opened. God never changes, he doesn't "get with the times". And that's why he's trustworthy.
very very good and amen
Martin should not continue as a Catholic Priest. Simple.
Not just homosexuality, but I’ve sometimes feared that any dogma could be up for debate because of papal infallibility or doctrinal development. Blame it on my Americanism. This has held me back a bit from the Catholic Church even though what I desire is true, consistent doctrine. Is this just something in which we have to trust Jesus? That the Holy Spirit will protect the magisterium and pope from wrong doctrine for all time?
Don't know if anyone will see this but I still have to ask. If this teaching is condemned by the CC why are there no repercussions for the priests who allow/promote this stuff? Shouldn't they be excommunicated or something?
Today's (8/23/22) first reading is perfect for this. 2 Thes 2:1-3a, 14-17
Great vid, thanks.
Even if an angel from heaven reaches another gospel, let him be accursed, says Saint Paul.
I have hope that the catechism and promotion of it like catechism in a year, and RUclips channels like this will educate the lay faithful so that they can easily spot truth and error when such agendas get promoted. And I'm hopeful that this will put pressure on the clergy who promote confusion and the ones who cowardly stay silent on it.
Goober Pyle mixed with Jerry (the Neighbor) from Dick Van Dyke Show
The Roman Catholic Church can't continue with only celibate men in the priesthood. The number of men who are willing to remain unmarried while preaching the Good News has declined, severely.
In the 1960s, the Chicago Archdiocese routinely ordained 30 to 40 priests each year. This year, the Archdiocese ordained 2 priests.
I've seen articles in the Chicago newspapers, where priests say that the day is coming when large suburban parishes will have to share priests, because there aren't enough to go around. That will cause problems for scheduling weddings, funerals, and baptisms.
I grew up in the era when there were plenty of priests. A lot of them were from Ireland where catholic boys were sent to the seminary and girls to the convent so those large families would have fewer mouths to feed. Those priests came to the USA where they got nice cushy diocesan parishes where they were basically local celebrities in the congregation, free golf at the country club on their days off courtesy of the wealthier parishioners, nice cars, a nice big house to live in with a cook and housekeeper to cater to their every whim and treat them with worshipful deference. They got to have a way better life than anything they could hope to have had in Ireland. In my experience they were unhappy morose hermits who emerged on Sunday to say a bunch of masses and encourage the altar boys (no girls then) to make sure they put a whole lot of wine and not much water in those chalices which could help them stop the shakes from the night before. Those men had no business in the clergy. They had nothing useful to say spiritually to me, certainly, and probably to anyone else either. The ones who could, left in the 70s, along with the nuns who taught me in elementary school and who probably entered to convent at age 14 to get out of some particularly brutal version of hell they were enduring in their family homes. I would much rather have a clergy and religious community that is full of people who answer the call to be there rather than a whole bunch of people for whom that is their least worst option.
@@michellekeyser8085 this is really fascinating and unsettling. Thanks for sharing your experience.
It changed its mind on the mass … so … yea … we have cause for concern.
What did it change its mind about? When?
@@476429
I believe he is referring to the top down institution of the new mass following the second Vatican council, which coincidentally never actually approved the creation and implementation of the new mass.
@@476429
Furthermore the obviously contradictory ideas that are floating around in the church regarding the position of Benedict the 16th on the old mass saying it could never be abrogated, which theologically seems pretty sound considering that even if the specific formulation of the old mass has only been in use for 500 years, most of it dates back to the fourth century or so, and the apparent abrogation of it by Pope Francis and his lackeys ostensibly in the name of unity actual theology and tradition be damned, does seem pretty arbitrary and needless.
WHEN (not if) it changes, it'll be interesting to see how people on the losing side spin having been on the wrong side of this and all the harm they caused.
It is impossible to claim to be Christian and to fail to follow the natural law. Even those who had no access to the Mosaic Law are nonetheless subject to natural law.
“14. For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15. Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;” (Rom 2:14-15, KJVA)
As we become more self absorbed and idolatrous as a society society, God's permissive will gives us what we want, good and hard. See Romans Chapter 1.
@@Unclenate1000 I always struggle with the notion that the Church has taught exactly the same thing for 2000 years. Surely customs, traditions, and doctrine have changed, or in more technical language "been clarified."
Letting people know Jesus Christ. This is evangelization.
They sure are trying though. And they're not merely "confusing" people.
Nag Hammadi Library is a free App on your phone 📱.
Read for yourself what the Council of Nicea and foundation of the Catholic Church was so afraid of.
Really highlights who the "God" of the Old Testament is.
Makes the Old Testament (Pentateuch) incredibly fun to read. I love Horror stories. The Author has to be good though and I've read better than the OT. Being non-fiction helps.
Honestly, I'm just over the whole 'we need to be nice towards them'.... when is the church friendly towards adultery? Homosexuality is the same as adultery and any other sin. Why is it 'bad' to say, 'Hey, it's a sin, get over it; if you want to live in sin and go to church, go become episcopalian' Sorry, but if people want to go to hell in a handbasket, let em go? I'd rather have my church free of the trash and all of these confusing change agent masonic garbage bins.
If you allow the evil to continue unchecked within the halls of our Holy Mother church how can one say because Archbishop Borgolio makes one Catholic decision that we are still grounded in Christ’s Church
It's funny how Germany always rebelled against Rome
Wasn't Trent who said doctrine can change?
We adjust to Gods Will… period.
Francis won’t be the one to change the teachings, but his cardinals and buddy’s like cupich, jimmy Martin, Tagle will give into the confusion till it eventually changes over 50 years
To The Truth We Will Only Find In Jesus And Our Father.
Jesus is coming are you ready for him
Quite the freak show going on. Love them enough to call them out for salvation
Love by pride 🌈 is not love by One GOD who made you before your in the Mothers womb
If he really tell the truth maybe he should have walked out of the catholic organization
THE WORLD RULER TRIES TO KILL ME
And then a voice of the world ruler came to the angels: “I am god and there is no other god but me.” But I laughed joyfully when I examined his conceit. But he went on to say, “Who is the human?”
And the entire host of his angels who had seen Adam and his dwelling were laughing at his smallness. And thus did their thought come to be removed outside the majesty of the heavens, away from the human of truth, whose name they saw, since he is in a small dwelling place. They are foolish and senseless in their empty thought, namely, their laughter, and it was contagion for them.
The whole greatness of the fatherhood of the spirit was at rest in its places. And I was with him, since I have a thought of a single emanation from the eternal ones and the unknowable ones, undefiled and immeasurable. I placed the small thought in the world, having disturbed them and frightened the whole multitude of the angels and their ruler. And I was visiting them all with fire and flame because of my thought.
And everything pertaining to them was brought about because of me. And there came about a disturbance and a fight around the seraphim and cherubim, since their glory will fade, and there was confusion around Adonaios on both sides and around their dwelling, up to the world ruler and the one who said, “Let us seize him.” Others again said, “The plan will certainly not materialize.” For Adonaios knows me because of hope. And I was in the mouths of lions. And as for the plan that they devised about me to release their error and their senselessness, I did not succumb to them as they had planned. And I was not afflicted at all.
Those who were there punished me, yet I did not die in reality but in appearance, in order that I not be put to shame by them because these are my kinsfolk. I removed the shame from me, and I did not become fainthearted in the face of what happened to me at their hands. I was about to succumb to fear, and I suffered merely according to their sight and thought so that no word might ever be found to speak about them.
For my death, which they think happened, happened to them in their error and blindness, since they nailed their man unto their death. Their thoughts did not see me, for they were deaf and blind. But in doing these things, they condemn themselves. Yes, they saw me; they punished me.
It was another, their father, who drank the gall and the vinegar; it was not I. They struck me with the reed; it was another, Simon, who bore the cross on his shoulder. It was another upon whom they placed the crown of thorns. But I was rejoicing in the height over all the wealth of the rulers and the offspring of their error, of their empty glory. And I was laughing at their ignorance.
No outright descent? Seriously? The man has outright stated the Bible, the inerrant Word of God is wrong on that particular issue. That seems pretty outright to me.
Explain please why Francis does exactly nothing to correct German moral schism. Documents without consequences are meaningless.
("Francis" Bergoglio refuses to answer Dubia, meets up with James Martin instead) It's the Antichurch now guys! It's Bergoglio's Church. Sooner or later you're going to have to take another look at the Beniplenist Thesis and realise what's really going on.
Amen
I was really pleased to see the Australian Plenary mention and reach out to (amongst others) the LGBTIQA+ community. It’s these steps, however small and symbolic, that are the ones slowly bringing about the kingdom. There’s lesser confusion where this ‘issue’ is concerned, Trent.
The LGBT community wants the Church to submit to them, rather than submitting to Christ and his Church. Don't be fooled.
Why the obsession with homosexuality?
Why the obsession homosexuals have with whether the Catholic Church accepts their “lifestyle” or not?
you mean like how it didnt change its mind on infant damnation??
Yes, the CDF issued the statement that gay marriages can't be blessed. Then the man who wrote it was fired, Francis named a Bishop who advocates that "science" dictates the church's teaching on these matters be revised to head up the Synod on Synodality, & Francis wrote letters to Martin & the other woman with a similar ministry extolling and blessing their work. It also seems like the letter to German Bishops scolded them more for getting ahead of the SoS process than for the conclusions they were reaching. IMHO more traditional Catholics keep finding false comfort in feints & are missing the bigger picture. Pope Francis seems to be intentionally sowing confusion on this front, & I suspect it will be declared that Holy Spirit communicated thru the SoS that teachings in this matter are to be amended in some respect, despite that directly contradicting multiple NT scriptures.
I think it would be sensible to include science in discerning our moral code. It makes no sense to uphold a moral system that violates nature. For instance, you could say the Church's stance on abortion and transgenderism is very much informed by science. I think its stances on homosexuality, masturbation, and fertility tend to be lacking in science though. Just my thoughts. Not trying to be annoyingly provocative here.
@@AntonAchondoa If one believes that Scripture is the divinely inspired word of God, we can't simply revise its teaching on sin bc we believe science has taught us something new (fwiw, the science on the immutability of same sex desire is largely non-existent, tho powerful narratives have been reiterated thru media for the last 40 years to the contrary.) Once you start pulling on threads in scripture & writing them off as "just a product of primitive people's cultural bias & ignorance," the reliability of Scripture starts unraveling, as does the faith of many in it.
Imho the reality that certain behaviors can be seen in the animal kingdom says nothing about their morality. Certain species engage in cannibalism, rape, & incest, as do some humans. The flesh is fallen & the heart is deceitful above all things. If incest is "natural," does that mean we should now dismiss scriptural prohibitions against incest involving consensual adults? (Matters of civil law re homosexuality are a different issue - I'm simply referring to church teaching on sin.)
IMHO, as Christians we're not permitted to just invent our own morality, esp not in ways that directly contradict the New Testament & the new covenant that Christ bought us with his suffering & blood. "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight." I came to this understanding in my late 40s, after decades in unrepentant (hetero) sexual sin (I never married.) NT doesn't stutter on these matters - those who engage in sexual immorality will not inherit the kingdom of heaven (masturbation is less clear from the plain text - I'm not a Catholic, tho I'm still discerning - but the magisterium may be right on that as well, so I steer clear.) Reflecting back on my life & those of others I love, & considering the societal fallout of the sexual revolution, I see the logic behind the sexual prohibitions.
And I'm not trying to be contentious either - just sharing my perspective/understanding. =)
The teachings come from Christ
TRENT, JUST GET AI TO WRITE YOUR BOOKS? 😅
This post is for critical thinkers and is not for those who think that citing the bible or reiterating Church policy is an adequate response. Just why the Roman Catholic Church advocates blind ideological adherence to celibacy through the magisterium regardless of the consequences for them just because someone is gay or whatever beggars belief and demonstrates such gracelessness towards the blessings of sex and the body that one would swear that the minds behind the teaching were deliberately trying to belittle God and diminish and demoralise us all to the very fullest possible extent. It is not as if when two men make love that the sex even needs to be penetrative? Very disturbing and bizarre policy and teaching imho.
@@bobjenkins3rd No! I think I've heard just about enough nonsense, madness and malignancy to last me an entire lifetime! Adeus!
@@bobjenkins3rd Quite why you didn't simply and boldly correct the error in my understanding of the teaching of the Catholic Church (complete with citations) re this matter I'm not quite sure especially if it was good or better news at least from my own perspective?
Meanwhile, Catholic Truth have boldly stated to me that the Catholic Church does not demand life long celibacy (for gay couples). They state that it is a choice. I have politely requested that they cite their sources but I have heard nothing back, which is odd!
I am beginning to wonder whether the teaching of the Catholic Church varies significantly depending upon the jurisdiction? Gay couples in Germany at least can at least obtain an official Blessing from the Catholic Church if not a full proper marriage, but at least it's a step in the right direction I suppose!
I haven't seen any of anything regarding these matters in the UK Catholic Church that's for sure!
@@bobjenkins3rd Ok Scott feel free to cite your sources.
@@bobjenkins3rd Thank you Scott. No particular rush so take your time.
Is catholicism not withering and dying? Check your market share.
COPE
Speaking of spreading confusion, both Trent and Matt Fradd preach that the Novus Mass is perfectly wonderful, and yet both of them go out of their way to attend the Latin Mass churches that Pope Francis says are basically in error. The Pope says we all should go to Novus Masses guys.
And on the topic of homosexuality, let's be real. The Church is still a huge magnet for gay men, and a large percentage of priests are bent that way. Yet they're supposedly experts in family relations between men and women.
Pope Francis hasn’t said it is in error, but they aren’t in full ‘unity’ and I don’t mean with the Church I mean he wants everyone to worship the same. From what I’ve seen they praise the Latin Mass I haven’t seen them praise the Novus Ordo but they are against it and speak good of the Latin Mass.
In regards to the Priests, I’ll just say this wasn’t happening before the NO was around to the degree it has these past decades or so I haven’t heard any cases about it.
And when you say a large percentage of priests are bent that way, I really don’t know where you got those figures from
@@EDTS_0
Oh except if he wanted everyone to worship the same it would make more sense just to go back to the Latin mass considering the language used and everything else would be the same for everyone in every part of the world, whereas the new mass seems absolutely right with abuses in many places.
Also the apparent abrogation of the Latin mass and other traditional forms of the sacraments raises the question of how The Vatican is to treat the eastern right churches which Rome is in communion with?
If you want to be real, do not conflate homosexuality with child abuse.
@@kevinkelly2162 sexual depravity is sexual depravity
rainbow is supposed to symbolise hope, but somehow they've hijacked it.
Hello Trent. You say that your heart is to help people come know Jesus Christ in his Church.
To tell the truth, objectively speaking, it seems that you spend most of your time teaching/defending Roman Catholic doctrine and Mariology and very little time preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
"... Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
Matthew 28:18-20
"...for if I preach the gospel, I have nothing to boast of, for I am under compulsion; for woe is me if I do not preach the gospel."
1 Corinthians 9:16
I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.
2 Timothy 4:1-2
Recently I have engaged Protestant objections more often, but in the past decade I have done a lot to defend Christianity itself including a book on atheism, a book on Jesus, and most of my debates are on abortion or atheism.
@@TheCounselofTrent that's good and thanks for your response.
My own two cents. I honestly believe that we are called, by He Himself, to preach His Gospel, above all things. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is THE solution. On this last statement I'm pretty sure we would agree.
God bless you Trent, in the Name above all names.
*its already has!*
are you demons so delusional?
It baffles me that the Roman Church, the largest and most systemic employer of homosexual men in human history, continues to repress the sexuality of its members, not only condemning it as a 'sin' (which must create immense psychological damage for its priestly employees), but also engaging in gnostic practices of sexual abstinence. This must verge into one of the most intense sexual melodramas in any organisation. I expect many of its male saints were homosexuals and its priests (which we know about through historical evidence that has not been destroyed).
My conclusion is that the problematising of sex, which the Roman church engages with, is not about any type of god, but a deranged internal struggle of its members over their repressed sexual desires. The more they lust for men and homosexuality (there is nothing wrong with this), they engage in further repression which leads to all sorts of horrible outcomes. The more they lust and frustrate their desires, the more they condemn it. It's so very, very sad, especially in our beautiful modern age when we are no longer kept enchained under the dogmatic authority of repressed men who create a whole mythology to justify their sexual repression.
I fear you are over optimistic, so, so, so many other organisations have abandoned Christ's standards on sexual morality, the Catholic church can easily go the same way. Another pope, a few more years, it can all get worse.
I don't see how that is reconcilable with the plain reading of the numerous prohibitions against homosexual acts. The Church would have to repudiate its own foundation on the scriptures and build anew on shifting sand. Somebody once warned against such building practices.
@@StanleyPinchakI am not saying you SHOULD be abandoning Christian Biblical standards, I'm saying other denominations have done so, and much as the Catholic church considers itself unique, you are also, sadly, susceptible.
Trent Horn is again playing at being a Catholic Authority with this critique of Fr. Martin, but consider the following. The Roman Catholic Church is hierarchical, and yet for all the things he's written and said about homosexuality, this Fr. James Martin has never been censured by his superiors. Quite the contrary in fact. Fr. Martin was appointed to a high communications position by the current Pope, and he's also been invited to speak at the Vatican. Despite all of that official approval, Trent Horn is telling you that Fr. Martin is wrong and spreading confusion. But who speaks for the Church's views on what's acceptable to say about homosexuality? Is it the Holy See, which has only *approved* of Fr. James Martin, or Trent Horn, Professional Catholic?
The authority of the Church rests not in one man nor in a group of men, for men can be corrupted, rather it lies in the mystic body of Christ and his church, in the magisterium and the deposit of faith, and in those who protect and nourish her.
Popes and bishops are just as capable of teaching error as anyone else, and you can tell if it’s error if it is a position which directly contradicts the established magisterium.
Like if Pope Francis came out tomorrow and said that “Jesus was just like a wise teacher dude and not the son of God, the word made flesh, and the savior of the world”, it doesn’t matter that pope Francis said that, it would still be heresy.
As a Protestant, I answer, Trent Horn
The magisterial teaching on homosexuality has not changed, the Catechism has not changed. Individuals maybe giving certain pastoral opinions but the traditional teaching hasn't changed.
Historical teaching trumps current opinion
@@viviennedunbar3374 So then you admit Pope Francis is being scandalous by making these appointments?
Tradition plays a big role in what you will not give up in your beliefs. Many have been taught from when you were kids ... and you just keep believing ... tradition... family beliefs... culture... many have not read the Bible which reveals false teachings in the Catholic beliefs. Only God is omnipresent so we can only pray to Him for He is all over the world, at the same time, listening to your prayers and His Son the only intercessor. Dear Reader, only God is omnipresent. Mary would need to be God to intercede and listen all over the world at the same time. Please ask God to reveal the truth....He loves you and will help you....We don't need anyone else... He is the all in all and wants to be first and will not allow anyone to take His place.
@Alice Martinez
For praying to saints/Mary, there is Biblical evidence for people existing as individuals in Heaven, meaning they supposedly exist outside of the linear time of Earth (explains Abraham’s and Elijah’s appearance with Jesus).
I’m not fully on board with praying for Mary’s grace, but the Catholic Church is well rooted in Scripture. If you want, I can cite the verses and we can talk about it if you’d like. :)
Oh Jesus is the fruit of Mary’s womb, she is the mother of God, through her we gain access to Christ and through Christ the trinity.
Except that scripture itself is blantantly a product of Tradition, Catholic Tradition. No one told the apostles to write anything and yet they did; the Church in ecumencial council decided what texts were and were not divinely inspired which is why you don't see many Christian groups reading from apocryphal texts like Enoch or the pseudo-gospels of Peter, Thomas, Judas etc.
In your paragraph you make a mistake; Christ is the sole mediator (1 Timothy 2:5) but nothing is said of Him being our only intercessor (but we do see that He is interceding Romans 8:34, 1 John 2:1, Hebrews 7:25). In fact, it's ridiculous to say that Christ is the only intercessor because anytime you or I prayer for someone else we are interceding on their behalf and to say that we should never pray for anyone else is contrary to the demands made by scripture. St James tells us in his letter to the faithful that, "Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, so that you may be healed. The prayer of the righteous is powerful and effective" (James 5:16). If the prayers of the righteous are more effective then we should look for the most righteous people possible to intercede and pray on our behalf. This need for the holiest individuals is met by the prayers of the saints who, already being in heaven, have forever been declared worthy to see God face to face and live in His perpetual friendship. The saints want nothing more than to join their prayers with ours so that we might experience the same joy of praising God that they have been granted by the mercy of God; St. John's apocalypse tells us that the saints and angels offer their prayers before God's throne in heaven like incense (Revelation 8:3, 4). Who else (save God Himself), out of all the righteous in heaven, is holier than the Blessed Virgin Mary, full of grace, Mother of our Lord and God Jesus Christ, Immaculately prepresevered from all stain of sin from the first moment of her conception, the new ark of the covenant, and coronated queen of heaven and earth after her assumption into heaven, and given to use by Our Lord on the cross as our mother, like the new Eve? Surely, if St. James tells us the truth, the prayers of the most perfect creature in existence should avail us very much. I don't really appreciate the claim that Catholics don't read scripture. We do and we have the sacred tradition of the Apostles and Church Fathers to help us interpret it. If anything, Protestants read scripture much and understand very little through their modernistic mindset.
God made me Catholic.
@@allthenewsordeath5772
But where does Jesus say to pray to his mother for Grace, basically giving her praise that God deserves alone?
If you have a good answer, please help me. :/
The body of Christ should not be divided. There is only the church which is the body of Christ and Christ is the Head. There should be no denominations, that separates brothers and sisters. Drop all beliefs that cause division. We must concentrate on what we all believe... Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior. Was there Baptists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Pentecostals, Catholics, Charismatics , Messianic Jews, ordained and established by God. No, men made these divisions and gave them names. Mere men who have their opinions and feelings. It breaks the heart of God. Drop all titles and let us love one another as the Lord asks..
This is true but what relevence is there to the video?
>ordained by God
Yes.
History and scripture confirms this.
I agree, everyone should be good, faithful and Orthodox Catholics
@@Deathbytroll You just wilfuly misinterpreted what they said...
@@substance-m7u-boredigger I said the truth. There is one true Church and it's the Catholic Church, we shouldn't be divided we should be where Christ wants us to be and that's in the true Church
With all due respect, The Roman Catholic Church has changed so many things throughout its history, why would this be any different? I mean look at what the pope says. I hope I am wrong however
Your knowledge of Church history is null, my friend. Just honestly. I’m sorry for this incisiveness. God bless!
The church cannot and has never changed core beliefs that constitute magisterial teaching or dogma. It can define, undefined things. It can and has changed things that don't constitute magisterial teaching or dogma many times, but what is being discussed here cannot, and has never changed.
@@masterchief8179 Please don't call me friend if you are going to respond with contempt. At the very least enlighten me, about your unchanging church history. The filioque is an easy one. Papal infallibility also did not always exist, nor even papal supremacy, as according to Saint Gregory the Great, who himself said that any bishop who would put himself above the others is anti-Christ.
Also please define what is a core teaching, since the pope has said some things which challenge things I would consider to be core.
@@chadpilled7913 No problem. Your average knowledge in theological and historical matters seems to be inversely proportional to your easiness in denying “Roman Catholicism” with pre-made sentences. For example, the one about pope St Gregory the Great. I simply cannot educate you on everything. You must do your work with a softened heart, praying for the Holy Spirit. But I can surely serve you an appetizer on his ecclesiology, for instance:
_”(...) I, unworthy, succeeded to the _*_GOVERNMENT OF THE CHURCH_*_ (...)”_ .
_For what are all your brethren, the bishops of the universal Church, but stars of heaven, whose life and discourse shine together amid the sins and errors of men, as if amid the shades of night? And when you desire to put yourself above them by this proud title, and to tread down their name in comparison with yours, what else do you say but I will ascend into heaven; I will exalt my throne above the stars of heaven? Are not all the bishops together clouds, who both rain in the words of preaching, and glitter in the light of good works?_
_(...) Peter, the first of the apostles,_ (...)
_Was it not the case, as your Fraternity knows, that the prelates of _*_THIS APOSTOLIC SEE_*_ which by the providence of God I serve, had the honour offered them of being called _*_UNIVERSAL by the venerable COUNCIL OF CHALCEDON._*_ But yet not one of them has ever wished to be called by such a title, or seized upon this ill-advised name, lest if, in virtue of the rank of the pontificate, he took to himself the glory of singularity, he might seem to have denied it to all his brethren._ (Pope Gregory, Book 5, Letter 18)
_____________
_”When our PREDECESSOR (pope) Pelagius of blessed memory became aware of this, _*_HE ANNULLED_*_ by a fully valid censure all the proceedings of that same synod (...)”_
_Furthermore, it has come to our knowledge that your Fraternity has been convened to Constantinople. And although our most pious Emperor allows nothing unlawful to be done there, yet, lest perverse men, taking occasion of your assembly, should seek opportunity of cajoling you in favouring this name of superstition, or should think of holding a synod about some other matter, with the view of introducing it therein by cunning contrivances,- though _*_WITHOUT THE AUTHORITY AND CONSENT_*_ of the _*_Apostolic See_*_ nothing that might be passed would have _*_ANY FORCE_*_ (...)_ (Pope Gregory, Book 9, Letter 58).
_____________
_”Inasmuch as it is manifest that the _*_APOSTOLIC SEE IS, BY THE ORDERING OF GOD, SEER OVER ALL THE CHURCHES,_*_ there is, among our manifold cares, special demand for our attention, when our decision is awaited with a view to the consecration of a bishop. (. . .) you are to cause him to be consecrated by his own bishops, as ancient usage requires, with the assent of our authority, and the help of the Lord; to the end that through the observance of such custom both the Apostolic See may retain the power belonging to it, and at the same time may not diminish the rights which it has conceded to others_ (Pope Gregory, Book 3, Letter 30).
_____________
_”For as to what they say about the _*_CHURCH OF CONSTANTINOPLE, WHO CAN DOUBT THAT IT IS SUBJECT TO THE APOSTOLIC SEE,_*_ as both the most pious lord the emperor and our brother the bishop of that city continually acknowledge_ ? (Pope Gregory, Book 9, Letter 12)
_____________
_”[Y]ou must still strictly order them to _*_OBSERVE ALL THINGS AFTER THE PATTERN OF THE APOSTOLIC SEE”_* (Pope Gregory, Book 4, Letter 36)
_____________
_”It was right that the _*_APOSTOLIC SEE_*_ should take heed, with the view of _*_GUARDING IN ALL RESPECTS THE UNITY_*_ of the Universal Church in the minds of priests”_ (Pope Gregory, Book 4, Letter 2).
So his ecclesiology 1) assures Roman position to be “the” Apostolic See” (a terminology that can refer only to Rome when used in singular); 2) implies a different kind of primacy in which no particular church can be said to be above but all subject to the Roman authority, inclusive the See of Constantinople, one he had in high regards and esteem; 3) states that the Roman bishop exercises by right and commission the government of the (universal) Church, which does not mean obviously the pope is a bishop whose diocesan space meant the “globe”; 4) specifically called the memory of the Ecumenical Council of Chalcedon asserting the Roman authority to be “universal” (mostly an absurd, but notice the cherry-picking of a phrase in which the pope St Gregory rejected a reference to the name “universal bishop” - rightly so - as if he allegedly rejected his own cognizance of the jurisdictional universality and the See of Rome’s singular role in it); 5) specifically affirmed that the ecumenicity on counciliar acts are entirely dependent upon the Apostolic See’s confirmation, bringing the memory of other popes who even nullified synodal acts; 6) assumes the Roman authority to order others churches after the pattern (of authoritative decisions, not on strict uniformity of customs) of the Roman See; 7) assumes the Roman church not only takes the heed but guards unity at the universal level and responds for it; 8) refuses Roman ordinary intervention on regular episcopal affairs like consecration of bishops of the Eastern churches, although he did not reject that the Apostolic See is seer over all churches of the world (‘au contrarie’, he affirms it), affirming that it is so by the order of God, not by ecclesiastical organization; 9) affirms clearly that the lack of consent of the Roman church (the Apostolic See) impedes a synod in Constantinople to produce any force (in the context, at the universal level) and the Roman act of nullification makes it to not produce any force at all.
For sure he used the “Petrine Sees” in some of his writings in general as a reference to his brothers of Alexandria and Antioch, the first two after Rome to have received patriarchal status according to canon law, and specially making it a “soft critique” on Constantinopolitan growth of importance over Alexandria and Antioch. But the ecclesiological premises are very clear to me and in line with the theology of popes St Damasus, St Celestine, St Leo the Great, St Gelasius, St Hormisdas (and many more). Not the best names to preach for Eastern Orthodox (wrong) ecclesiology.
Of course St Gregory the Great humbly asserted that episcopal dignity never meant the bishops were “mere extensions” of his own Petrine authority but authorities of their own. That’s 100% Catholic. And the way he addressed the Petrine authority, in line with Pope St Leo the Great, is that only the Roman See could use and exercise the Petrine authority “stricto sensu” albeit others could mean to have it “lato sensu”. The homiliary and epistolary of both Popes St Leo the Great and St Gregory the Great above all were widespread on the East with huge acclamation.
And you will know Truth, and truth will set you free (John 8, 32).
God bless!
Right, because the Catholic Church never changed its mind on anything before? Seriously I'm confused
The Church can never change doctrine established by Jesus Christ. He makes it very clear to the woman at the well that the only valid form of sexuality is between a husband and wife.
Not on this subject. Go join a methodist church if you want your sins to be embraced
It never did.
Dogmas and doctrines like usury is still the same as it was back in 1200.
Contraception never changed
The view of the eucharist never changed.
Any ordinal and universal magisterium teaching hadn't changed.
And lastly you cannot make sins like sodomy or the inclinations which are clearly disorders unsinful.
God does not change his mind on these things
What was considered sin since the beginning is considered sin now you nor the Church or even the Pope has the right to determine what isn't and is sin that is up to God to decide
@@MikeyJMJ Not joining any church thanks
@@substance-m7u-boredigger How did you end up watching this? Are we gonna convert you? :) I was a Satanist before. I think my prayers are more successful (through god's grace of course) than my spells were.
Constantine joined christianity and paganism to make the universal church of Rome. Do they have idolatry in their ten commandments ????
Muh Constantines!!!!
Perhaps you might begin with the distinct possibility the Catholic Church has been wrong since the First Council of Nicaea when “Jesus” was declared God in the flesh thus severing the branch from the Judaic tree with its Torah roots.
Brace yourself for the truth…Not Peace but the Sword; the Convergence Matrix.