they gave them even less time to make mass effect andromeda only 14 months. EA killed the mass effect franchise just to focus on multiplayer and microtransactions. it seems someone at EA has changed their tune though because EA is now having bioware fully return to a single player RPG company
@@Rhanarra_Ferox doubt, i don t think we will ever get a dlc for andromeda, however we will get a new mass effect game that probably connects milky way and andromeda stories together
I actually am pretty happy with the way tali looks in legendary ed i always imagined the quarians to be a race of beautiful people trapped behind masks.
I don't mind the new look, I think it makes sense to me after hearing Javik say that Quarians were considered attractive in his cycle if you romanced Tali.
I heard they had plans for Tali's face reveal that involved a lot of cut scenes, but some one from higher up had a bright idea to spend the budget for Tali to create that Diana Allers character that no one asked for.. and gave our beloved Tali just a photoshopped random image from google..
Yeah Diana Allers...everyone's favorite character... The one who sounds like she needs to take a 20 year nap and looks like her make-up routine involves getting stung by wasps... Totally worth cutting a reveal we've been waiting for ever since the first game 👍
I'd be more forgiving if they used it for Traynor or Cortez who were fairly major characters in the third game despite just having the usual customizable faces
I really appreciate you being open minded about the stresses BioWare went through in ME3’s development. I like Tali’s new design way more than the stock photo. I kind of imagined the Quarians to have human like faces but with balled heads, pale skin and those glowing eyes.
I don't think any game developer WANTS to make a bad game, and the realities of game development are often completely overlooked by gamers. I feel bad for the artists at BioWare, making Mass Effect 3 couldn't have been fun, regardless of how creatively fulfilling it was!
@@FullMotionVideos Lets be completely honest though, the Devs were under IMMENSE expectations with this, Mass Effect for the most part is a massively beloved series, that if they fucked it up, they absolutely would have been shut down after the failure of Anthem, and how hated Dragon Age is becoming. Them messing up one more time, is likely all it will take for all of them to be out of theri jobs.
@@FullMotionVideos The only Developer I've ever heard of that TRIED to make a game people would hate was Hideo Kojima with Metal Gear Solid 2. I don't know if this is true, but that's just what I've heard
@@JimankyGaming not wanted to hate but wanted to make a game that was unique in how it tells it story and themes. Like Metal Gear 2 is scarcely prophetic with how it describes internet culture now.
I'm surprised they didn't just completely refilm scenes for the Legendary Edition. Like when Tali removes her mask on Rannoch, actually rotate the camera so we can see her. Or have a fully animated romance scene like Ashley, Kaidan and Liara have.
@@TyrantJaeger Yeah the mod is called the "Tali Romance" mod, and I don't think there will be a port anytime soon. There are many modders who are reluctant to port their work to LE, mostly because they will have to start from scratch as the source code is different. I expect opinions to change at some point, but it is still disappointing as there are tons of wonderful mods for the ME trilogy (ME3 especially).
If the deadline played a big part in how we got Tali's face reveal, then one could assume that is why the ending turned out like it did. It propably would have been the same ending, but with much more elaboration. Maybe we would have had 30 more minutes of gameplay during this part, that explored a bit more, depending on which colour you chose?
I totally understand I'm in the minority here, but I liked the original ending. And I follow the Indoctrination theory on it as well. It feels absolutely right for the Lovecraftian influence on the series, but feel free to disagree.
@@CaiusKushsades No no i get it. I dont necessarily dislike the ending, it just confuses me. It feels to me like there could have been more, not necessarily a feel good fairy tale happy ending, but an ending that just gave more information. I can definetly see the appeal from your point of view, and to me, events in Mass Effect are never definite "This is what happened". It depends on the Shepard, as we all have our own Shepard we created. So the more possibilities, the better.
Basing this idea on indoctrination theory because at this point I consider it canon. It would've been awesome if, once you got all the necessary assets and chose the destroy ending, there was a scene where Shepard woke up and faced down a dying Harbinger(since Harbinger is pretty much the main villain at this point, not the one with the most screen time but definitely the biggest threat). The reaper, despite on the verge of death, stands defiant and tries to convince Shepard that what they're doing is a mistake, that eventually organics will run rampant and destroy everything. That this may be a victory for now, but eventually other intelligent organics will be enslaved, left to be nothing more than pawns. Shepard can either agree or disagree, but regardless of their thoughts Harbinger dies, everyone celebrates, and Shepard is left to wrestle with whether they made the right choice. Their friends may be alive, but what will their children do in the future? Will they do what the Reapers fought against? Or will they prove them wrong? If the idea seems a little wonky I'm sorry, I just came up with this off the top of my head XD
From what I can remember, the ending and some of the main story was edited due to a leak before the game's release. The story was supposed to be about dark energy and it was mentioned a lot in Mass Effect 2 and it was scrapped in Mass Effect 3. Then we got the different endings to appease people, although after playing the 1st and 2nd game for the 60 hours it takes, I have no clue why people would NOT pick the destroy ending
I imagined Tali having hair and having purple skin with some alien face marks, the first concept art you showed was not how I imagined she would look and preferred the more human apparence, basically ME3 picture
I mean it's stated that the quarrians were the most attractive race. So it makes sense that they would have more human facial features like the asari. Because everyone loves the asari
He didn't say they were the most attractive race but an attractive race. The only distinction between the two is that he was just stating that Protheans considered them attractive rather than them being the most attractive (Which I believe that's because the Asari have that title).
The asari only look human like to humans in theory since in mass effect two you can see a bachelor party of a human turian and salarian on illium all saying the asari look like the three respective races to each other
@@The_Thousandth_Tex I've heard that theory however there nothing that backs it up. As all statues and paintings of the asari depict them as mostly human looking
I honestly didn't think Tali's face even in the stock version was all that surprising or disappointing. I mean ever since the first game we could tell Tali has Human facial features with the exception of her body and glowing eyes. So, for her to have a "human" face wasn't unexpected but what would have been unexpected was if she just straight looked like a human, like no alien features whatsoever. That was just Bioware's fault they clearly never tried to make her model seem in all aspects alien (In all aspects I mean like the fact her facial features in all three games were just straight-up human) in the way they did with the Turians and Krogans, so when ME3 was in need of a picture they already have a basic idea from her model what she looked like so even a photo-shopped image would make sense. That's just my opinion though but I do believe her new picture is far better.
There's one major thing that doesn't make sense with the stock-photo version: Long hair like that inside an environmental suit you can't take off. How is she supposed to wash it, how is she supposed to keep it out of her eyes and mouth? I know what my hair feels and smells like after a half-hour run, i don't even want to imagine having that inside an enclosed helmet that I'm wearing for weeks, months, years on end. And for what purpose? It's not like a lot of people are ever going to see it. So: Even if the quarians did have hair on their heads before they shot their immune systems, they would have come up with a solution to that, one that most likely involves supressing hair-growth with meds.
For myself, it wasn't that the concept of Tali's 1st final design being particularly bad; its how last-minute the quality and presentation of Tali's face felt. While probably not related, the fact that members of the dev team were able to model Diana Allers' face into the game, and were not able to do justice to one of the trilogy's central characters was a sore point at launch. Revamping Tali's face in LE is a step in the right direction, but an official effort on the same level of quality as the Tali Romance Mod would have been ideal.
@@MrAranton Well I'd imagine that a race of people who created real, thinking AI would be able to come up with a spacesuit that filters out dirt and dust particles while also allowing you to wash your hair somehow (like using recycled moisture or something like that). I also imagine that hair and any other thing related to the body would be pretty important for a Quarian. In a certain sense they've "lost" some control over their bodies due to the exile caused by the Geth. Maybe growing and styling their hair has less to do with showing off and more to do with "taking back control" over their old lives. You get what I mean? Something like "This is my hair, it's part of me and the Geth won't take this away from me" That being said I guess that many Quarians could probably be shaved or bald because it's more practical
@@Italianchef26 that's a pretty big stretch from a spacesuit with really good filters to a spacesuit that can wash your hairs. Beside, constantly wearing a suit is more likelly to make them loose their hair than anything else. The idea of taking back control over your body but there is no mention of anything close to that in the game. Also, I fail to see why they would relate their hair to the geth. It's not like the geth ever tried to reduce quarians body autonomy. Even the spacesuit is only the result of constantly living in space. If the quarians had moved to another planet right after being kicked out of their homeworld, they wouldn't need a suit.
I actually appreciated the more humanoid look of tali nn the original games. I always found it a little strange that no other species in the game has hair other than humans.
I don't. I'm perfectly fine with hair being a uniquely human characteristic. One thing that bothers me a bit tho, is that asari looks almost identical to humans, except for being only females and having that head tentacles things. I mean, when you look to salarians, turians, krogans, elcor, hanar, drell, quarians, all of them look alien as fuck, but then you look to asari and they're blue human females with weird tentacles on ther head.
@@FMK03 what? Where the fuck did you get this info from? Asari are monogendered and reproduce via thought exchange, they just look feminine because... Alien biology I guess.
remember that Javik says Quarian was the most attractive primitives amongs the others when Prothean was the pinnacle of species. the word "attractive" in mass effect (sadly) defined by how similar a species face to human. Salarian and Vorcha never considered attractive, but Asari, a species that have the most similarity in facial shape and curvature with human, considered beautiful. so i think the right concept in 3:41 should be the most accurate representation of Quarian face. some of us want them to have Alien vibes, but since BioWare make Asari the most beautiful species in Shepard circle, and how Javik explain it, we should already know how they look like
Which is a bit dissapointing, they are aliens and should have an alien look. Unfortunately it’s correct that we are biased towards human looking faces because, that’s how our brains are wired. Same with attractive features we see in women regarding breasts, curvature spine, hips, low fatty layers projected onto Quarians and Asaris. But I’m sure Bioware could have made an attractive alien face if given the time, but it is what it is.
@@Ohem1 yep. But since many society in ME universe (a.k.a the BioWare themselves) define beauty the way we know it in the games, that's what we get. Making Quarian looks like Batarian for the sake of diversity and ignores the definition of attractive in that universe is also not right. It's BioWare's fault to make Asari as the galaxy's beauty standard, and seals the deal by making Javik saying Quarian is as attractive as Asari
It's fantasy, it's not that deep lol. I would think that a bigger problem would be that both Turians and Quarians are dextro but look nothing alike aside form being bipedal and humanoid in appearance. You'd think that those two species would look more similar to one another than one of them being similar to humans. It's creative liberty, small inconsistencies are permissible and you're not supposed to think to hard about it. And the market for Mass Efffect is exclusively human, so it would stand to reason that attractiveness would be based off of that for obvious reasons.
@@Ohem1 Quarians do look alien, their enviro-suits just distract from those distinctions. However, they do have obvious physical differences, like have you seen their hands, feet and legs? Or the fact that they're dextro-amino based organisms, so at a biological level they're not human in appearance either.
@@Let_The_Foolish_Take_The_Lead No matter how I'm going to formulate you'll most likely nitpick, so I'll be short and simple: Quarians and Asaris don't "look alien enough" as it is because of the bodily and facial shapes (Tali's face, whether it's the new or old one) - same with Humans, Vulcans and Romulans in Star Trek. There are differences just not enough to come off as such because of those remaining human-like features. That's what's disappointing, it's not particularly creative. That's why Turians, Elcors, Hanar, Drells, Prothean(s) are far more interesting design-wise.
I like the revised version of Tali in the Legendary Edition (and would've been fine if they'd gone with one of the more Alien versions of the Quarians)!
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is how the new picture also simply has Tali without her mask. Unless we were hoping for a racy nude shot, it makes sense she'd simply remove her mask.
It's possible Hudson made a unilateral decision specifically so any blowback would fall exclusively on him. Thankfully we have The Legendary Edition now and many of it's changes reflect the design team's original wish list.
Pretty much he did the right thing by pulling off a Commander Shepard move. All responsibility would fall on him as the director instead some lower tier designer getting the fallout knowing how toxic both the fan base and EA can be. Salute to Hudson!
The new image is better but it still sad that the look of an entire species was relegated to a desk photos, The ending on Rannoch was screaming for a face reveal with tali taking her mask off and would have been a good cinematic way to end the geth/quarian conflict.
I'm with you on this, the original design is more "alien". I mean they are aliens, we don't know what's out there, I feel that humanoids are for lack of a better term... cliche. Mass effect could have expanded so much better on what was behind the mask. (In my opinion of course)
the more human design is better, the original alien ones put me off, remember what javik said that even in his time the quarians were considered highly attractive, those alien designs are anything but attractive but then again i don't know what's attractive from a prothean point of view xD
Well I think everyone sort of knew they'd end up human-like in appearance, given that the game was created by humans so naturally all the LI's look human. But from a more lore-friendly stance, I'd have preferred if they looked more like Asari with short hair. Javik's comment that Quarians were known to be attractive influences that, as well as the lore that Asari are considered attractive by all species as every species sees something in them they find appealing.
While the redone art for Tali is definitely a step up from the quick photoshop original it replaced, I think they should have gone with a more alien appearance over a near human one. I can understand the hesitation over what the finished design should be. She is a popular character that has been around the whole series so getting it right would be difficult, but the quarians are physically quite different than humans so why would they look like a pallet swapped one? Most of the conceptual drawings aren’t to bad, with a little touch up and added detail several of those could have worked nicely.
I never played the original games. I experienced the “new,” Tali face as just being her face. I knew that there was controversy associated with the reveal, but I never pursued information regarding the games until legendary edition came out, and honestly I had never imagined too far what Tali’s face would look like. Seeing the stock image would’ve absolutely sent me off too, and I think that changing her face for the legendary edition was a good call
Honestly, I'm okay with Tali being a bit more human like than alien like in some concept art. Even though we don't "officially" see her face in game, you could tell she has human facial features (glowing eyes and a nose) plus the appearance of a human (two arms/legs, breasts, hips, etc) the only alien things about her being the three fingered hand and different feet.
I’m gonna start my 3rd playthrough and Tali will be my romance path, I did Liara, then Ash in that order, now it’s Tali’s time to shack up with the Commander.
the biggest issue i had with it was the skin tone being to human. I always thought that the reason quarians had alot of overlapping mask colors was that they expressed their skin tone in the masks. This is why all of her mask options show purple in 2 and 3. It didn't have to be as deep of a purple sense glass, but it felt like her skin should of been closer to a soft lavender or something in that vein.
I imagine something similar. I like to imagine quarian skin tones CAN be functionally identical to human ones but also very different, coming in faint shades of yellow, red, orange, blue, purple, ect... with a wider variety of exotic hair colors too, to match their hoods.
@@Raycloud i didn't really tie hoods to hair given i always imagined dark hair for tali that was a natural compliment to her purple skin. I figured hoods where kind of like hair dye, the colors don't have to match what they where born with as an expression.
It would surprise me very little if they wound up repurposing some of the early concept art for the Quarians into what would eventually become the Angara.
Doubt ending would have been fleshed out the grandfather and son kinda tell you the gamer somthing important they were not meant to be fleshed out as the grandfather tells his son after the story its up to his imagination in a way the entire series was about a 50k cycle and each ending is vastly diffrent and would effect them diffrent they left it up to the players to imagine the next cycle of the game they love most die hards and lore nuts iv talked to all agree soon this 2nd 3 was no diff than 2 why do ppl sit here hear 3 had 2 years and flip shit like omg 2 was so good this dev time is why 3 sucked and dont even bother to learn or loom stuff up 2 and 3 had same dev time due to asset sharing 3 didnt have to make as many new assets as 2 that alone means in 2 years 3 shuld have been easier than 2 so yeaaaa
I've been playing through the legendary edition, and I love it! Playing through Mass Effect again just feels so good. Mass Effect deserves more love, and I also would love the multplayer to come back!
I have nothing but respect for Casey. Even with the tight deadline he still took the time to give fans something, and even though it faced severe backlash, it was still a nice gesture that showed how much he cared about the series and Tali fans. I actually do like the version of her face we got in the Legendary Edition because it stays consistently to the semi-visible features of the Quarian facial models. I agree that some of the concept art looked better, but I like what we got. I really hope we get to see more of the Quarian culture in the new game, because they've always been one of my favorite races, alongside the Volus (which curiously also have their real appearance hidden underneath suits).
Since the geth’s platform (body) was modeled after their creators, I thought the quariens’ head would look like a big worm with an eye at the tip. Good thing I was wrong because Shepard would never have any romance with that.
Her facial features were pretty clear in Mass Effect 1, 2, and 3 and showed a more human face in terms of shape. So I never got that impression personally.
I heard this story a few years ago and honestly, I was never bothered by the use of the stock photo (as someone who romanced Tali in ME2 about 11 years ago) and love the redesign in Legendary.
I honestly find it really funny that people are so much happier since it looks pretty much exactly the same to me except they put a suit on her and made it animated lol. There was honestly a lot of fanart that looked better than the final product.
Not the first time I've heard this story, and I'm not surprised it was something like this. What we got in the LE was much better and much more what I was expecting. Definitely glad it wasn't some freaky weird face under there.
I just got to that part where Tali has given Shepard her photo (Legendary). I like the look and it was what I expected from what could be seen through her face shield.
Yea I fuckin love Mass Effect! LET'S GO! The new design is much better than the original though I literally never noticed she had 3 fingers in the picture until you pointed it out. I can't wait for whatever videos you make on these games later on :D
I like both options. I appreciate that the first iteration shows more of her. And that the second is custom, not a stock photo. Now a blending of the two. A model of Tali built from the ground up showing her facial features and hair becausr it says quarians have hair would be awesome.
I liked the most bald original concept art. In the end they basically delivered it in the Legendary edition. Face marks, weird eyes but when it comes to facial structure it was seen since the first game that quarians have human like facial appearance. Hell after seeing Than I was pretty sure that quarians look quite similar to the drell race. If the thing with Hudson is true than he basically decided to risk it knowing that there will be backlash but at least he gave players SOMETHING instead of nothing when it comes to Tali face reveal.
The image of Tali that was snuck in at release is the best, feel do I. The unity ending with the Geth, has some of them merging with Quarian suits, and that enabled them to help the live a life outside of an isolation suit within their own lifetime. Otherwise they would have spent living several generations still in their suits even while living on their Homeworld. Maybe in Mass Effect 5, Shepard can encounter a version of Tali outside of her suit, depending on choices made in the previous games, hope do I. Only the Asari seem to have longer spans of life than the Quarians.
I like overall design of the stock photo but what I did not like was how lazy that photo-shop job was or how they literally used a stock photo. Tali deserved more of a personal touch than that. They should have found an actual model to serve as her appearance and spent an appropriate enough time creating the image. She should have appeared unmaked in game, not just in a photo.
I like the new look. The lines on her forehead that start at the base of her eyebrows can even be seen very faintly in other Quarians if the angle and lighting is just right. I think I noticed it while speaking with Shala'Raan on the Normandy.
The Devs and Artists couldn't come to an agreement on her appearance so Casey Hudson was like "I'm gonna Google: 'Pretty Girl' and just Photoshop her purple and call it good. No one could possibly get mad at this idea, it's too brilliant."
Honestly I like the way she looks in the Legendary Edition, the devs actually took the time to change a detail that was the result of players sticking with Tali as a romance
There's a line she uses in one of the games "what we have that passes for ears" that's kind of one of the very few clues we have about the Quarian's appearance. What little we can see inside the mask shows a face that's somewhat human with a human nose and human-shaped eyes in the usual position. Their facial design couldn't be too substantially different from human or it would have shown I imagine behind the mask to some extent at least. That she became a fan-favorite and many clamored for a romance with her doesn't surprise me because I love exotic accents and I love her friendly, positive almost bouncy personality. She and Liara are my most frequent mission companions in ME1. Tali because of her personality and Liara because of her exotic beauty combined with her somewhat child-like personality. Liara is extremely smart, but she's socially awkward which is kind of endearing. Most of the attempts at art for Tali miss the "ear" comment and it always makes me curious about what sort of ears they do have. They obviously have mammalian traits so I'm curious about what sort of mix of types they might be? Amphibian/Mammal? Frogs and other amphibians have odd ears and might have generally human faces. I could imagine a warm-blooded frog/mammal mix maybe. The odd point to me about most ME aliens is the number of fingers. How do you hold onto a shotgun or high-power sniper rifle with one finger lightly touching the trigger and one finger and a thumb to keep it from flying out of your hands when you shoot it?
Actually when I started playing ME for the first time, one of the silhouettes of the future and possible adventure partners caught my attention, and that was Tali, needless to say that the more I played ME the more this character fascinated me. I do not remember well, but somewhere I read that someone commented that the quarians were one of the most beautiful species as well as the asari, that is why I was left with the impression that Tali's true face would be beautiful, and I must say that Casey should have used one of Allkassar's creations, which are really how I imagined Tali, sometimes it's good to see the Fanarts and see the opinions of the public. Otherwise, I share your opinion, the ME series is the best game for me too. Greetings.
I never knew about the struggles BioWare went through in Mass Effect 3's development. I was one of the people that was so angry about the stock photo. I'm so glad BioWare fixed this in the Legendary Edition.
I recall a dialogue with Grunt regarding his assessment of the other species. "You're SOFT. Humans are soft, Asari - soft. Quarians... Not so much" He went on to address the Turians as well, but his bit always intrigued me. Some have said it's simply owing to the fact that the Quarians are always in their protective suits, but I'm calling BS on that. Grunt was going off of tactical combat assessments from the tank. Sure, Quarians are always in suits, but it's not like you'd ever face any of the other races naked in combat - everyone would be expected to be in armor. So, I think he's actually referencing something unique to their physiology. I imagined their skin to be sturdy. Not quite an exoskeleton, but hardy. Possibly somewhat inflexible, segmented in places much like plating, elegently made. Less insect, more abalone-shell in appearence, though certainly less rigid. Perhaps a bit Turian-esque, but with far more porcelain elegance. What could have been. Still, anything's better than that lazy-ass stock photo travesty.
Grunt doesn’t even know much or even care for that matter in regards to how Quarians actually physically look or feel without the suits, he definitely was going off by the suits plus he’s a tank bred young krogan made to fight and that’s what he values the most.
As a Liara Romancer, I'm fine with Talia being the way she eventually ended up regardless and I enjoyed the stock photo edit if for nothing else than seeing her fingers done justice ;)
One thing I guess I miss is the 'cute' rounder features from the model in the stock photo. I dunno, I think it suits her voice and is a contrast/compliment to her personality. However the new art fits the small bits of her face we can see under the helmet.
I love Tali's new face in Legendary Edition, yes, always tought that Tali had to be beautifull and unique, this should be the reward to fall in love with someone whose face you have never seen well. But i was hoping the helmeth visor would have been more transparent during the game development.
when I first saw that they had made the new look I figured it was because there will be Quarians in the next ME installment and with the events in ME3 the Quarians could be living without their suits hence the need for a new canon look
I still picture them more cat like, because in one dialog she mentiones "Back when our people spread the seeds in their fur. Or maybe kinda bird like because their DNA matches the turians.
I like the change in the Legendary Edition, but I honestly didn't mind the original much. I didn't really have time to study the image when Shepard looked at it, so I didn't think too deeply on it.
To be fair and a bit pedantic, I don't know anyone who disliked ME3's multiplayer. What people disliked was the necessity of playing multiplayer to advance your war assets in the main/single player campaign.
Well that and the horrible loot box system, let's be honest, it was totally predatory. The only way to beat it was to play Plat and that was a bear without a good team of friends to grind it out enough to get the black loot boxes and finally get the all the rare gear to X level. If it wasn't for how fun the MP was, it wouldn't have been worth it with some of the crazy builds you could run.
I love 2 mods for ME3 from Nexus, they work together and give Tali nice face both thru the mask and in romance scene (note one has nudity, but it was the face, hands and continuity that I loved). They are Tali Remastered and Tali Romance Mod. That version is version Ive come to love.
I actually like the stock photo more. I would rather be sleeping with that then legendary edition remastered. Just saying. I don't blame developers for the game sucking at all. Never did.
I honestly love the original design, because if BioWare has shown us in games like Dragon Age, but especially Mass Effect, the characters don’t have to look human in order for them to be considered “attractive “. It’s all about their personality, and I honestly love it. That being said, I don’t I blame the creation of the rushed product, and I do like Tali’s remastered design overall. I just like it when the aliens look more alien-like personally.
In the Mass Effect: Ascension novel, it describes the Quarians having very pink skin. There's a PC mod out there that makes her mask transparent and gives her a more believable face. In my head it's canon.
Honestly, having Tali's face be revealed through a photo didn't do it for me. I think I would have preferred the "unmasking" to take place in a later installment into the series (Canonically, the Quarians survive ME3, though I don't know about the Geth). So have the first "post-reaper" Quarian we meet in an exo-suit (they still work as hermetically sealed armor/space suits), and when the main char fights through whatever problem is in the intro, and gets to a safe zone, have them pull the mask off, and boom, reveal.
Tali's face should have been revealed in ME2 when you romance her and she takes her mask off. Then the whole of race's appearance should have been revealed in ME3 when you see recordings of historical quarians. It was very, very cheap to have those recordings show suited quarians.
I like both. The original picture is beautiful. Though I doubt having all that hair would be conducive to living in the suite she is in. If you have ever had long hair and wore a ball cap for a long time, you get what I mean. Being bald is a given. But being a beautiful slightly arabic tinged humanoid with some "strange" features and slightly iridescent eyes seems about right. To be honest, Tali could have been just about anything with a slight resemblance to human and most of us wouldn't care. We fell in love with her character. And those THICC ass hips.
I kinda like the original better, something about it and the pose she is in, it's definitely the intimate photo you'd give a loved one. as opposed to the strangely "here is a quarian without mask" photo that is the legendary ed.
I feel like people honestly don't know that they can both understand why something became the way it did and adjust their criticism of the game while understanding under a different context it would be bad. This to me is just terrible that most people will not actually try to criticize something well but try to have a veil of what good criticism they think looks like. And I know this is an unpopular opinion but I feel like the same happened to Andromeda. Anyways really great video. Glad it clears up what actually happened to the picture.
I couldn't get into me2 after they made it more casual so I didn't play it until the legendary edition. Me2 was much better than I thought and the casual feel made me realize how much of a chore 1 was to micromanage everything. Long story short, played the trilogy for first time recently despite loving 1 when it first came out and thought they did a solid job. Glad I waited because the dlcs were a good addition and the ending was better than I originally heard.
Tbh, I like the design at 2:22 the most. I understand the devs weren't given enough time, but this look feels like a mix of the features of other species in ME.
Thank you! I hated the ME3 ending and Tali reveal as much as everyone, but I've said since I first played it, it was by far the best game I've ever played despite those issues. The multiplayer was SO GOOD! Even though it served as a prototype for the lootbox hell online play became afterwards, that game's implementation of loot boxes was fine since it was PVE and having a competitive advantage didn't matter. By far the biggest problem with ME3 that never gets talked about is that you never get a satisfactory confrontation with Harbringer. It shoots at you on the final charge to the relay back to the citadel, but we REALLY could have used a big boss fight, or at least it showing up in the cinematic and getting to see the fleet tear it to shreds.
Personally I loved Tali's look but would have prefered different colorings and maybe more glow/bioluminesence in her skin or the lines rather, to give her a more beautiful look. She is gorgeous regardless. Love her
Well at least with mass effect 4, depending on where the story goes and such we could have quarians without their masks. Even in the destroy ending since they can technically just rebuild the geth
it might have been the opposite for all we know, hudsons design could have been a default put in place if no concensus could be found by the deadline so she at least got a face reveal, even if it nearly crucified bioware lol.
I definitely agree that Mass Effect 3 should be given credit for coming out as well as it did. ME2 and ME3 both are kind of miracles of tight-deadline game design; while they both have shortfalls, they are both much better than anything I would expect to come out of a studio like BioWare given the way EA tends to mismanage RPG developers in particular. The same can't... exactly be said of Dragon Age II, unfortunately. But at least Mass Effect survived Electronic Arts as a reasonably complete and well-realized trilogy of games. (Also ME3 has really good DLC missions to round it out.)
The more i hear about Mass effect 3s development its just amazing that we got something that was even remotely playable at all, the developers really did a good job with the hand they were dealt.
And the more your hear the less you know both me 2 and me 3 had same development time around 2 years big diffrence games share assets and 2 had far less assets to pull and tweak from 1 than 3 did for 1 and 2 meaning 3 had the least ammount of new assets being created also story lined out etc in actuality 3 shuld have been easier than 2
@@biohazerdtrollztrolls4798 hey look i found the EA bootlicker. oh please tell us how extremely questionable crunch practices were somehow ok just because lead to games you like being made
I will never forgive EA for forcing BioWare to a 22 month dev cycle to somehow release ME3
they gave them even less time to make mass effect andromeda only 14 months. EA killed the mass effect franchise just to focus on multiplayer and microtransactions. it seems someone at EA has changed their tune though because EA is now having bioware fully return to a single player RPG company
@@exilestudios9546 then perhaps Bioware can finally get around to finishing Andromeda by adding the DLC that's missing
@@Rhanarra_Ferox doubt, i don t think we will ever get a dlc for andromeda, however we will get a new mass effect game that probably connects milky way and andromeda stories together
@@BoxingDawg lets hope then, because it still seems dumb to me to have a distress call from a missing arc and not able to go find them
@@Rhanarra_Ferox they won't do that but it looks like the next mass effect will involve Andromeda in some capacity though we don't know what yet
I actually am pretty happy with the way tali looks in legendary ed i always imagined the quarians to be a race of beautiful people trapped behind masks.
Exactly, beautiful and fragile - it makes sense
"Even primitive quarians were considered attractive in my cycle. A pity no one can appreciate it now. Except for perhaps...The Commander?"
@@SoulKiller7Eternal well that quote was in me 3
@@sebastianorriola6636 As is her face reveal. :)
The red head secretary psychologist lady (can't remember her name) lamented how one couldn't see the quarian within the pretty suit.
I don't mind the new look, I think it makes sense to me after hearing Javik say that Quarians were considered attractive in his cycle if you romanced Tali.
And Javik is from one weird looking alien race with four eyes, and if he considers someone 'attractive'...
@@reftu7856 welp, he has 4 eyes to enjoy beauty
@@reftu7856
Javik also considered Asari atractive
@@juanlaise1059 Asari look like the race of the one looking at them, so...
@@reftu7856 They said asari are attractive
I personally like the redone version. Dont need too see anything else except her face, because her personality says it all.
Tali in the Legendary Edition looks exactly how I've always imagined her. Consider me satisfied
I heard they had plans for Tali's face reveal that involved a lot of cut scenes, but some one from higher up had a bright idea to spend the budget for Tali to create that Diana Allers character that no one asked for.. and gave our beloved Tali just a photoshopped random image from google..
Yeah Diana Allers...everyone's favorite character...
The one who sounds like she needs to take a 20 year nap and looks like her make-up routine involves getting stung by wasps...
Totally worth cutting a reveal we've been waiting for ever since the first game 👍
Yeah, and she doesn't even have that much dialog :P
I'd be more forgiving if they used it for Traynor or Cortez who were fairly major characters in the third game despite just having the usual customizable faces
Allers was fine but I really felt like there was someone who wanted a reason to cast Amanda Bynes if a movie got done
please tell me this isn't real
I really appreciate you being open minded about the stresses BioWare went through in ME3’s development. I like Tali’s new design way more than the stock photo. I kind of imagined the Quarians to have human like faces but with balled heads, pale skin and those glowing eyes.
I don't think any game developer WANTS to make a bad game, and the realities of game development are often completely overlooked by gamers. I feel bad for the artists at BioWare, making Mass Effect 3 couldn't have been fun, regardless of how creatively fulfilling it was!
@@FullMotionVideos Lets be completely honest though, the Devs were under IMMENSE expectations with this, Mass Effect for the most part is a massively beloved series, that if they fucked it up, they absolutely would have been shut down after the failure of Anthem, and how hated Dragon Age is becoming. Them messing up one more time, is likely all it will take for all of them to be out of theri jobs.
@@FullMotionVideos The only Developer I've ever heard of that TRIED to make a game people would hate was Hideo Kojima with Metal Gear Solid 2. I don't know if this is true, but that's just what I've heard
@@FullMotionVideos yeah it often feels like any nuanced discussion is left to the side for easy dunks on the overworked artists.
@@JimankyGaming not wanted to hate but wanted to make a game that was unique in how it tells it story and themes. Like Metal Gear 2 is scarcely prophetic with how it describes internet culture now.
I'm surprised they didn't just completely refilm scenes for the Legendary Edition. Like when Tali removes her mask on Rannoch, actually rotate the camera so we can see her. Or have a fully animated romance scene like Ashley, Kaidan and Liara have.
theres a mod for that i think
@@IrrieldeCZ For the original. I'm still waiting for the Legendary port.
@@TyrantJaeger Yeah the mod is called the "Tali Romance" mod, and I don't think there will be a port anytime soon. There are many modders who are reluctant to port their work to LE, mostly because they will have to start from scratch as the source code is different. I expect opinions to change at some point, but it is still disappointing as there are tons of wonderful mods for the ME trilogy (ME3 especially).
they couldn't be bothered.
Same here
If the deadline played a big part in how we got Tali's face reveal, then one could assume that is why the ending turned out like it did. It propably would have been the same ending, but with much more elaboration. Maybe we would have had 30 more minutes of gameplay during this part, that explored a bit more, depending on which colour you chose?
I totally understand I'm in the minority here, but I liked the original ending. And I follow the Indoctrination theory on it as well. It feels absolutely right for the Lovecraftian influence on the series, but feel free to disagree.
@@CaiusKushsades No no i get it. I dont necessarily dislike the ending, it just confuses me. It feels to me like there could have been more, not necessarily a feel good fairy tale happy ending, but an ending that just gave more information. I can definetly see the appeal from your point of view, and to me, events in Mass Effect are never definite "This is what happened". It depends on the Shepard, as we all have our own Shepard we created. So the more possibilities, the better.
There definitely could have been so much more. As usual, EA fucks shit up
Basing this idea on indoctrination theory because at this point I consider it canon.
It would've been awesome if, once
you got all the necessary assets and chose the destroy ending, there was a scene where Shepard woke up and faced down a dying Harbinger(since Harbinger is pretty much the main villain at this point, not the one with the most screen time but definitely the biggest threat). The reaper, despite on the verge of death, stands defiant and tries to convince Shepard that what they're doing is a mistake, that eventually organics will run rampant and destroy everything. That this may be a victory for now, but eventually other intelligent organics will be enslaved, left to be nothing more than pawns. Shepard can either agree or disagree, but regardless of their thoughts Harbinger dies, everyone celebrates, and Shepard is left to wrestle with whether they made the right choice. Their friends may be alive, but what will their children do in the future? Will they do what the Reapers fought against? Or will they prove them wrong?
If the idea seems a little wonky I'm sorry, I just came up with this off the top of my head XD
From what I can remember, the ending and some of the main story was edited due to a leak before the game's release. The story was supposed to be about dark energy and it was mentioned a lot in Mass Effect 2 and it was scrapped in Mass Effect 3. Then we got the different endings to appease people, although after playing the 1st and 2nd game for the 60 hours it takes, I have no clue why people would NOT pick the destroy ending
I imagined Tali having hair and having purple skin with some alien face marks, the first concept art you showed was not how I imagined she would look and preferred the more human apparence, basically ME3 picture
And bioluminescent eyes would be a big plus
me too honesty
The pale skin and tattoos just make me think of a Rattataki, it would have been a very poor fit. Sure, some paleness maybe, but not bone white.
@@kuronanestimare what would you expect for a species who's skin never touches the sun
I mean it's stated that the quarrians were the most attractive race. So it makes sense that they would have more human facial features like the asari. Because everyone loves the asari
Stated where? Just curious.
@@stermyplatinum7870 Javik says so in one dialog, so does one asari in ME2 I believe
He didn't say they were the most attractive race but an attractive race. The only distinction between the two is that he was just stating that Protheans considered them attractive rather than them being the most attractive (Which I believe that's because the Asari have that title).
The asari only look human like to humans in theory since in mass effect two you can see a bachelor party of a human turian and salarian on illium all saying the asari look like the three respective races to each other
@@The_Thousandth_Tex I've heard that theory however there nothing that backs it up. As all statues and paintings of the asari depict them as mostly human looking
Well, considering that "Bioware magic" was in play at that time, this doesn't surprise me
I honestly didn't think Tali's face even in the stock version was all that surprising or disappointing. I mean ever since the first game we could tell Tali has Human facial features with the exception of her body and glowing eyes. So, for her to have a "human" face wasn't unexpected but what would have been unexpected was if she just straight looked like a human, like no alien features whatsoever. That was just Bioware's fault they clearly never tried to make her model seem in all aspects alien (In all aspects I mean like the fact her facial features in all three games were just straight-up human) in the way they did with the Turians and Krogans, so when ME3 was in need of a picture they already have a basic idea from her model what she looked like so even a photo-shopped image would make sense. That's just my opinion though but I do believe her new picture is far better.
There's one major thing that doesn't make sense with the stock-photo version: Long hair like that inside an environmental suit you can't take off. How is she supposed to wash it, how is she supposed to keep it out of her eyes and mouth? I know what my hair feels and smells like after a half-hour run, i don't even want to imagine having that inside an enclosed helmet that I'm wearing for weeks, months, years on end. And for what purpose? It's not like a lot of people are ever going to see it. So: Even if the quarians did have hair on their heads before they shot their immune systems, they would have come up with a solution to that, one that most likely involves supressing hair-growth with meds.
For myself, it wasn't that the concept of Tali's 1st final design being particularly bad; its how last-minute the quality and presentation of Tali's face felt. While probably not related, the fact that members of the dev team were able to model Diana Allers' face into the game, and were not able to do justice to one of the trilogy's central characters was a sore point at launch. Revamping Tali's face in LE is a step in the right direction, but an official effort on the same level of quality as the Tali Romance Mod would have been ideal.
@@MrAranton Well I'd imagine that a race of people who created real, thinking AI would be able to come up with a spacesuit that filters out dirt and dust particles while also allowing you to wash your hair somehow (like using recycled moisture or something like that).
I also imagine that hair and any other thing related to the body would be pretty important for a Quarian. In a certain sense they've "lost" some control over their bodies due to the exile caused by the Geth. Maybe growing and styling their hair has less to do with showing off and more to do with "taking back control" over their old lives. You get what I mean? Something like "This is my hair, it's part of me and the Geth won't take this away from me"
That being said I guess that many Quarians could probably be shaved or bald because it's more practical
@@MrAranton In addition to that the setting doesn't make sense. Why would she be outside, under a sun, nicely dressed?
@@Italianchef26 that's a pretty big stretch from a spacesuit with really good filters to a spacesuit that can wash your hairs. Beside, constantly wearing a suit is more likelly to make them loose their hair than anything else. The idea of taking back control over your body but there is no mention of anything close to that in the game. Also, I fail to see why they would relate their hair to the geth. It's not like the geth ever tried to reduce quarians body autonomy. Even the spacesuit is only the result of constantly living in space. If the quarians had moved to another planet right after being kicked out of their homeworld, they wouldn't need a suit.
I actually appreciated the more humanoid look of tali nn the original games. I always found it a little strange that no other species in the game has hair other than humans.
Hair = uniquely human doesn't have to be strange.
To be fair...Liara never answered the question of if Asari "hair tentacles" move...if they do then they're _kinda_ hair....kinda...
I don't. I'm perfectly fine with hair being a uniquely human characteristic. One thing that bothers me a bit tho, is that asari looks almost identical to humans, except for being only females and having that head tentacles things. I mean, when you look to salarians, turians, krogans, elcor, hanar, drell, quarians, all of them look alien as fuck, but then you look to asari and they're blue human females with weird tentacles on ther head.
@@MarceloZ2 Male Asari do exist, it's just that it's a matriarch where apparently only females have empathy (the power not the emotion).
@@FMK03 what? Where the fuck did you get this info from? Asari are monogendered and reproduce via thought exchange, they just look feminine because... Alien biology I guess.
As always, EA ruins everything
they don't fund games because they like them, it's to make more money🤑
remember that Javik says Quarian was the most attractive primitives amongs the others when Prothean was the pinnacle of species. the word "attractive" in mass effect (sadly) defined by how similar a species face to human. Salarian and Vorcha never considered attractive, but Asari, a species that have the most similarity in facial shape and curvature with human, considered beautiful. so i think the right concept in 3:41 should be the most accurate representation of Quarian face. some of us want them to have Alien vibes, but since BioWare make Asari the most beautiful species in Shepard circle, and how Javik explain it, we should already know how they look like
Which is a bit dissapointing, they are aliens and should have an alien look. Unfortunately it’s correct that we are biased towards human looking faces because, that’s how our brains are wired. Same with attractive features we see in women regarding breasts, curvature spine, hips, low fatty layers projected onto Quarians and Asaris.
But I’m sure Bioware could have made an attractive alien face if given the time, but it is what it is.
@@Ohem1 yep. But since many society in ME universe (a.k.a the BioWare themselves) define beauty the way we know it in the games, that's what we get. Making Quarian looks like Batarian for the sake of diversity and ignores the definition of attractive in that universe is also not right. It's BioWare's fault to make Asari as the galaxy's beauty standard, and seals the deal by making Javik saying Quarian is as attractive as Asari
It's fantasy, it's not that deep lol. I would think that a bigger problem would be that both Turians and Quarians are dextro but look nothing alike aside form being bipedal and humanoid in appearance. You'd think that those two species would look more similar to one another than one of them being similar to humans. It's creative liberty, small inconsistencies are permissible and you're not supposed to think to hard about it.
And the market for Mass Efffect is exclusively human, so it would stand to reason that attractiveness would be based off of that for obvious reasons.
@@Ohem1 Quarians do look alien, their enviro-suits just distract from those distinctions. However, they do have obvious physical differences, like have you seen their hands, feet and legs? Or the fact that they're dextro-amino based organisms, so at a biological level they're not human in appearance either.
@@Let_The_Foolish_Take_The_Lead No matter how I'm going to formulate you'll most likely nitpick, so I'll be short and simple: Quarians and Asaris don't "look alien enough" as it is because of the bodily and facial shapes (Tali's face, whether it's the new or old one) - same with Humans, Vulcans and Romulans in Star Trek. There are differences just not enough to come off as such because of those remaining human-like features.
That's what's disappointing, it's not particularly creative. That's why Turians, Elcors, Hanar, Drells, Prothean(s) are far more interesting design-wise.
I like the revised version of Tali in the Legendary Edition (and would've been fine if they'd gone with one of the more Alien versions of the Quarians)!
One thing I haven't seen mentioned is how the new picture also simply has Tali without her mask. Unless we were hoping for a racy nude shot, it makes sense she'd simply remove her mask.
Was the original racy, nude, or spicy in any way?
It's possible Hudson made a unilateral decision specifically so any blowback would fall exclusively on him. Thankfully we have The Legendary Edition now and many of it's changes reflect the design team's original wish list.
Pretty much he did the right thing by pulling off a Commander Shepard move. All responsibility would fall on him as the director instead some lower tier designer getting the fallout knowing how toxic both the fan base and EA can be. Salute to Hudson!
The new image is better but it still sad that the look of an entire species was relegated to a desk photos, The ending on Rannoch was screaming for a face reveal with tali taking her mask off and would have been a good cinematic way to end the geth/quarian conflict.
Which version of Tali do you prefer? The original alien designs, or the more human design created for Mass Effect 3?
I liked the old helmet, it made her seem more alien, plus you could just paint your own picture for what they looked like.
I'm with you on this, the original design is more "alien". I mean they are aliens, we don't know what's out there, I feel that humanoids are for lack of a better term... cliche. Mass effect could have expanded so much better on what was behind the mask. (In my opinion of course)
the more human design is better, the original alien ones put me off, remember what javik said that even in his time the quarians were considered highly attractive, those alien designs are anything but attractive but then again i don't know what's attractive from a prothean point of view xD
Well I think everyone sort of knew they'd end up human-like in appearance, given that the game was created by humans so naturally all the LI's look human.
But from a more lore-friendly stance, I'd have preferred if they looked more like Asari with short hair. Javik's comment that Quarians were known to be attractive influences that, as well as the lore that Asari are considered attractive by all species as every species sees something in them they find appealing.
While the redone art for Tali is definitely a step up from the quick photoshop original it replaced, I think they should have gone with a more alien appearance over a near human one. I can understand the hesitation over what the finished design should be. She is a popular character that has been around the whole series so getting it right would be difficult, but the quarians are physically quite different than humans so why would they look like a pallet swapped one?
Most of the conceptual drawings aren’t to bad, with a little touch up and added detail several of those could have worked nicely.
I never played the original games. I experienced the “new,” Tali face as just being her face. I knew that there was controversy associated with the reveal, but I never pursued information regarding the games until legendary edition came out, and honestly I had never imagined too far what Tali’s face would look like. Seeing the stock image would’ve absolutely sent me off too, and I think that changing her face for the legendary edition was a good call
I'm very happy with the quatians being humanoid. It says as much in their codex entries.
Honestly, I'm okay with Tali being a bit more human like than alien like in some concept art. Even though we don't "officially" see her face in game, you could tell she has human facial features (glowing eyes and a nose) plus the appearance of a human (two arms/legs, breasts, hips, etc) the only alien things about her being the three fingered hand and different feet.
and eyes too
@@a_balakirev335 You've heard the song "I Love How Your Eyes glow when you look at me..." haven't you? :)
@@terryrose4804 unfortunately i don't know this song :(
I’m gonna start my 3rd playthrough and Tali will be my romance path, I did Liara, then Ash in that order, now it’s Tali’s time to shack up with the Commander.
the biggest issue i had with it was the skin tone being to human. I always thought that the reason quarians had alot of overlapping mask colors was that they expressed their skin tone in the masks. This is why all of her mask options show purple in 2 and 3.
It didn't have to be as deep of a purple sense glass, but it felt like her skin should of been closer to a soft lavender or something in that vein.
I imagine something similar. I like to imagine quarian skin tones CAN be functionally identical to human ones but also very different, coming in faint shades of yellow, red, orange, blue, purple, ect... with a wider variety of exotic hair colors too, to match their hoods.
@@Raycloud i didn't really tie hoods to hair given i always imagined dark hair for tali that was a natural compliment to her purple skin. I figured hoods where kind of like hair dye, the colors don't have to match what they where born with as an expression.
3:39 Hmm, the Quarians must be related to the Angaran race.
It would surprise me very little if they wound up repurposing some of the early concept art for the Quarians into what would eventually become the Angara.
Mass effect 3 is my favorite mass effect but imagine how much better it would’ve been if stupid EA didn’t give them unrealistic deadlines
it probably would not be to different just longer and with a more fleshed out ending
Doubt ending would have been fleshed out the grandfather and son kinda tell you the gamer somthing important they were not meant to be fleshed out as the grandfather tells his son after the story its up to his imagination in a way the entire series was about a 50k cycle and each ending is vastly diffrent and would effect them diffrent they left it up to the players to imagine the next cycle of the game they love most die hards and lore nuts iv talked to all agree soon this 2nd 3 was no diff than 2 why do ppl sit here hear 3 had 2 years and flip shit like omg 2 was so good this dev time is why 3 sucked and dont even bother to learn or loom stuff up 2 and 3 had same dev time due to asset sharing 3 didnt have to make as many new assets as 2 that alone means in 2 years 3 shuld have been easier than 2 so yeaaaa
Should have always stayed a mystery. If you cared what she looked like, you weren't paying attention.
This is assuming if she ever had a face - mods fix that, Bioware doesn't
I've been playing through the legendary edition, and I love it! Playing through Mass Effect again just feels so good. Mass Effect deserves more love, and I also would love the multplayer to come back!
I have nothing but respect for Casey. Even with the tight deadline he still took the time to give fans something, and even though it faced severe backlash, it was still a nice gesture that showed how much he cared about the series and Tali fans.
I actually do like the version of her face we got in the Legendary Edition because it stays consistently to the semi-visible features of the Quarian facial models. I agree that some of the concept art looked better, but I like what we got. I really hope we get to see more of the Quarian culture in the new game, because they've always been one of my favorite races, alongside the Volus (which curiously also have their real appearance hidden underneath suits).
That concept art of Tali looks like a spitting image of Jack.
Since the geth’s platform (body) was modeled after their creators, I thought the quariens’ head would look like a big worm with an eye at the tip. Good thing I was wrong because Shepard would never have any romance with that.
i dont know about that shepard was crazy enough in some instances to try to get with an Ardat-Yakshi
Her facial features were pretty clear in Mass Effect 1, 2, and 3 and showed a more human face in terms of shape. So I never got that impression personally.
I heard this story a few years ago and honestly, I was never bothered by the use of the stock photo (as someone who romanced Tali in ME2 about 11 years ago) and love the redesign in Legendary.
The new Tali is perfect, and is fan inspired. There are several effects in the in game pictures that I can originate to fan made ones.
@3:40 reminds me a lot of the Angara we'd see in Mass Effect: Andromeda
The legendary edition really reminded me why I loved these games as a kid 10/10 content
I honestly find it really funny that people are so much happier since it looks pretty much exactly the same to me except they put a suit on her and made it animated lol. There was honestly a lot of fanart that looked better than the final product.
Dude, did you animate all this yourself? Awesome video!
I did! Thank you so much :)
Not the first time I've heard this story, and I'm not surprised it was something like this. What we got in the LE was much better and much more what I was expecting. Definitely glad it wasn't some freaky weird face under there.
I just got to that part where Tali has given Shepard her photo (Legendary). I like the look and it was what I expected from what could be seen through her face shield.
Yea I fuckin love Mass Effect! LET'S GO! The new design is much better than the original though I literally never noticed she had 3 fingers in the picture until you pointed it out. I can't wait for whatever videos you make on these games later on :D
I like both options. I appreciate that the first iteration shows more of her. And that the second is custom, not a stock photo. Now a blending of the two. A model of Tali built from the ground up showing her facial features and hair becausr it says quarians have hair would be awesome.
I liked the most bald original concept art. In the end they basically delivered it in the Legendary edition. Face marks, weird eyes but when it comes to facial structure it was seen since the first game that quarians have human like facial appearance. Hell after seeing Than I was pretty sure that quarians look quite similar to the drell race.
If the thing with Hudson is true than he basically decided to risk it knowing that there will be backlash but at least he gave players SOMETHING instead of nothing when it comes to Tali face reveal.
The image of Tali that was snuck in at release is the best, feel do I. The unity ending with the Geth, has some of them merging with Quarian suits, and that enabled them to help the live a life outside of an isolation suit within their own lifetime. Otherwise they would have spent living several generations still in their suits even while living on their Homeworld.
Maybe in Mass Effect 5, Shepard can encounter a version of Tali outside of her suit, depending on choices made in the previous games, hope do I. Only the Asari seem to have longer spans of life than the Quarians.
Honestly I liked the stock photo and didn’t mind it. And like the new one!
I like overall design of the stock photo but what I did not like was how lazy that photo-shop job was or how they literally used a stock photo. Tali deserved more of a personal touch than that. They should have found an actual model to serve as her appearance and spent an appropriate enough time creating the image. She should have appeared unmaked in game, not just in a photo.
@@Raycloud Assuming what was said in the video is true, why would you even bother to type what you did?
I like the new look. The lines on her forehead that start at the base of her eyebrows can even be seen very faintly in other Quarians if the angle and lighting is just right. I think I noticed it while speaking with Shala'Raan on the Normandy.
They should've just left it a mystery, reality can never live up to the fantasy.
makes sense what happened. wish the one you pointed out that you liked was kept in, it did feel more alien/different.
The best look for Quarians is the one from the Tali Romance mod hahah
The Devs and Artists couldn't come to an agreement on her appearance so Casey Hudson was like "I'm gonna Google: 'Pretty Girl' and just Photoshop her purple and call it good. No one could possibly get mad at this idea, it's too brilliant."
The thumbnail image looks perfect
Honestly I like the way she looks in the Legendary Edition, the devs actually took the time to change a detail that was the result of players sticking with Tali as a romance
“However, the company’s higher-ups could not reach consensus.”
I see what you did there :)
There's a line she uses in one of the games "what we have that passes for ears" that's kind of one of the very few clues we have about the Quarian's appearance. What little we can see inside the mask shows a face that's somewhat human with a human nose and human-shaped eyes in the usual position. Their facial design couldn't be too substantially different from human or it would have shown I imagine behind the mask to some extent at least. That she became a fan-favorite and many clamored for a romance with her doesn't surprise me because I love exotic accents and I love her friendly, positive almost bouncy personality. She and Liara are my most frequent mission companions in ME1. Tali because of her personality and Liara because of her exotic beauty combined with her somewhat child-like personality. Liara is extremely smart, but she's socially awkward which is kind of endearing. Most of the attempts at art for Tali miss the "ear" comment and it always makes me curious about what sort of ears they do have. They obviously have mammalian traits so I'm curious about what sort of mix of types they might be? Amphibian/Mammal? Frogs and other amphibians have odd ears and might have generally human faces. I could imagine a warm-blooded frog/mammal mix maybe. The odd point to me about most ME aliens is the number of fingers. How do you hold onto a shotgun or high-power sniper rifle with one finger lightly touching the trigger and one finger and a thumb to keep it from flying out of your hands when you shoot it?
Actually when I started playing ME for the first time, one of the silhouettes of the future and possible adventure partners caught my attention, and that was Tali, needless to say that the more I played ME the more this character fascinated me. I do not remember well, but somewhere I read that someone commented that the quarians were one of the most beautiful species as well as the asari, that is why I was left with the impression that Tali's true face would be beautiful, and I must say that Casey should have used one of Allkassar's creations, which are really how I imagined Tali, sometimes it's good to see the Fanarts and see the opinions of the public.
Otherwise, I share your opinion, the ME series is the best game for me too.
Greetings.
I never knew about the struggles BioWare went through in Mass Effect 3's development. I was one of the people that was so angry about the stock photo. I'm so glad BioWare fixed this in the Legendary Edition.
I recall a dialogue with Grunt regarding his assessment of the other species. "You're SOFT. Humans are soft, Asari - soft. Quarians... Not so much" He went on to address the Turians as well, but his bit always intrigued me. Some have said it's simply owing to the fact that the Quarians are always in their protective suits, but I'm calling BS on that. Grunt was going off of tactical combat assessments from the tank. Sure, Quarians are always in suits, but it's not like you'd ever face any of the other races naked in combat - everyone would be expected to be in armor.
So, I think he's actually referencing something unique to their physiology. I imagined their skin to be sturdy. Not quite an exoskeleton, but hardy. Possibly somewhat inflexible, segmented in places much like plating, elegently made. Less insect, more abalone-shell in appearence, though certainly less rigid. Perhaps a bit Turian-esque, but with far more porcelain elegance.
What could have been. Still, anything's better than that lazy-ass stock photo travesty.
Grunt doesn’t even know much or even care for that matter in regards to how Quarians actually physically look or feel without the suits, he definitely was going off by the suits plus he’s a tank bred young krogan made to fight and that’s what he values the most.
Hudson is one of those polarizing people that worked on Mass Effect. Made some really strange decisions on his own that really screwed with ME3.
As a Liara Romancer, I'm fine with Talia being the way she eventually ended up regardless and I enjoyed the stock photo edit if for nothing else than seeing her fingers done justice ;)
One thing I guess I miss is the 'cute' rounder features from the model in the stock photo. I dunno, I think it suits her voice and is a contrast/compliment to her personality. However the new art fits the small bits of her face we can see under the helmet.
Talis face reveal looks so much better now 😍
Seeing the thumbnail at 1AM during a sleepless RUclips run gave me nightmares.
I concur with your assessment. I like the Legendary edition of Tali's face, it fits my head cannon.😁
I love Tali's new face in Legendary Edition, yes, always tought that Tali had to be beautifull and unique, this should be the reward to fall in love with someone whose face you have never seen well. But i was hoping the helmeth visor would have been more transparent during the game development.
when I first saw that they had made the new look I figured it was because there will be Quarians in the next ME installment and with the events in ME3 the Quarians could be living without their suits hence the need for a new canon look
I still picture them more cat like, because in one dialog she mentiones "Back when our people spread the seeds in their fur. Or maybe kinda bird like because their DNA matches the turians.
I like both. They both fit her for one reason or another.
I actually like both designs even tho the original was a stock photo lol
I like the change in the Legendary Edition, but I honestly didn't mind the original much. I didn't really have time to study the image when Shepard looked at it, so I didn't think too deeply on it.
Very few games can be compared with me1-3. It’s epic! Can not even imagine who can be disappointed by few inconsistencies…
To be fair and a bit pedantic, I don't know anyone who disliked ME3's multiplayer. What people disliked was the necessity of playing multiplayer to advance your war assets in the main/single player campaign.
Well that and the horrible loot box system, let's be honest, it was totally predatory. The only way to beat it was to play Plat and that was a bear without a good team of friends to grind it out enough to get the black loot boxes and finally get the all the rare gear to X level.
If it wasn't for how fun the MP was, it wouldn't have been worth it with some of the crazy builds you could run.
I remember the memes of tali screaming at someone on Ranok to take the picture for shepard.
I love 2 mods for ME3 from Nexus, they work together and give Tali nice face both thru the mask and in romance scene (note one has nudity, but it was the face, hands and continuity that I loved). They are Tali Remastered and Tali Romance Mod. That version is version Ive come to love.
I actually like the stock photo more. I would rather be sleeping with that then legendary edition remastered. Just saying. I don't blame developers for the game sucking at all. Never did.
I honestly love the original design, because if BioWare has shown us in games like Dragon Age, but especially Mass Effect, the characters don’t have to look human in order for them to be considered “attractive “. It’s all about their personality, and I honestly love it.
That being said, I don’t I blame the creation of the rushed product, and I do like Tali’s remastered design overall. I just like it when the aliens look more alien-like personally.
After stream of insectoid-quarrian, that firs photo was (and still is) a big OK for me.
In the Mass Effect: Ascension novel, it describes the Quarians having very pink skin. There's a PC mod out there that makes her mask transparent and gives her a more believable face. In my head it's canon.
Honestly, having Tali's face be revealed through a photo didn't do it for me. I think I would have preferred the "unmasking" to take place in a later installment into the series (Canonically, the Quarians survive ME3, though I don't know about the Geth). So have the first "post-reaper" Quarian we meet in an exo-suit (they still work as hermetically sealed armor/space suits), and when the main char fights through whatever problem is in the intro, and gets to a safe zone, have them pull the mask off, and boom, reveal.
Tali's face should have been revealed in ME2 when you romance her and she takes her mask off. Then the whole of race's appearance should have been revealed in ME3 when you see recordings of historical quarians. It was very, very cheap to have those recordings show suited quarians.
Ha! "While you're down there." Phrasing!
I like both. The original picture is beautiful. Though I doubt having all that hair would be conducive to living in the suite she is in. If you have ever had long hair and wore a ball cap for a long time, you get what I mean. Being bald is a given. But being a beautiful slightly arabic tinged humanoid with some "strange" features and slightly iridescent eyes seems about right.
To be honest, Tali could have been just about anything with a slight resemblance to human and most of us wouldn't care. We fell in love with her character. And those THICC ass hips.
I always imagined the Quarians to have slightly more elongated faces, like the Geth hood-head.
I kinda like the original better, something about it and the pose she is in, it's definitely the intimate photo you'd give a loved one. as opposed to the strangely "here is a quarian without mask" photo that is the legendary ed.
I feel like people honestly don't know that they can both understand why something became the way it did and adjust their criticism of the game while understanding under a different context it would be bad. This to me is just terrible that most people will not actually try to criticize something well but try to have a veil of what good criticism they think looks like. And I know this is an unpopular opinion but I feel like the same happened to Andromeda.
Anyways really great video. Glad it clears up what actually happened to the picture.
I couldn't get into me2 after they made it more casual so I didn't play it until the legendary edition. Me2 was much better than I thought and the casual feel made me realize how much of a chore 1 was to micromanage everything.
Long story short, played the trilogy for first time recently despite loving 1 when it first came out and thought they did a solid job. Glad I waited because the dlcs were a good addition and the ending was better than I originally heard.
I actually like the original photo a lot more than the legendary version. I had no issues with the original
Although I have seen Tali's face I can only imagine Quarians with their suits
Tbh, I like the design at 2:22 the most. I understand the devs weren't given enough time, but this look feels like a mix of the features of other species in ME.
100% agree! I like the idea that the aliens look ALIEN, you know?
Its a such importance, rather than adding at least one checkpoint at the final ME1 boss battle.
Thank you! I hated the ME3 ending and Tali reveal as much as everyone, but I've said since I first played it, it was by far the best game I've ever played despite those issues. The multiplayer was SO GOOD! Even though it served as a prototype for the lootbox hell online play became afterwards, that game's implementation of loot boxes was fine since it was PVE and having a competitive advantage didn't matter.
By far the biggest problem with ME3 that never gets talked about is that you never get a satisfactory confrontation with Harbringer. It shoots at you on the final charge to the relay back to the citadel, but we REALLY could have used a big boss fight, or at least it showing up in the cinematic and getting to see the fleet tear it to shreds.
Why would anybody "go at Hudson" for this? He's the only person who got of their ass and did something.
i'm glad they updated that photo. the cheap photoshop on a stock photo was always a slap in the face
Personally I loved Tali's look but would have prefered different colorings and maybe more glow/bioluminesence in her skin or the lines rather, to give her a more beautiful look. She is gorgeous regardless. Love her
Well at least with mass effect 4, depending on where the story goes and such we could have quarians without their masks. Even in the destroy ending since they can technically just rebuild the geth
it might have been the opposite for all we know, hudsons design could have been a default put in place if no concensus could be found by the deadline so she at least got a face reveal, even if it nearly crucified bioware lol.
If I recall, didn't the first ME game have a lore bit in the codex saying the quarians were close to humans in apperance?
I definitely agree that Mass Effect 3 should be given credit for coming out as well as it did. ME2 and ME3 both are kind of miracles of tight-deadline game design; while they both have shortfalls, they are both much better than anything I would expect to come out of a studio like BioWare given the way EA tends to mismanage RPG developers in particular. The same can't... exactly be said of Dragon Age II, unfortunately. But at least Mass Effect survived Electronic Arts as a reasonably complete and well-realized trilogy of games. (Also ME3 has really good DLC missions to round it out.)
I didn't mind the original picture of Tali, but I like the new one more.
The more i hear about Mass effect 3s development its just amazing that we got something that was even remotely playable at all, the developers really did a good job with the hand they were dealt.
And the more your hear the less you know both me 2 and me 3 had same development time around 2 years big diffrence games share assets and 2 had far less assets to pull and tweak from 1 than 3 did for 1 and 2 meaning 3 had the least ammount of new assets being created also story lined out etc in actuality 3 shuld have been easier than 2
@@biohazerdtrollztrolls4798 hey look i found the EA bootlicker. oh please tell us how extremely questionable crunch practices were somehow ok just because lead to games you like being made