You did get a MAD hit on that Oscar. If you take a look under where it says "Oscar" on the map next to the range it says "(S)" when it's just a SONAR hit, but when you fly your P-3 over it you'll see it says "(S/M)" for SONAR and magnetic. Also, you can press X to cease fire (like when you were done having the Reuben shoot the AGI).
You're absolutely right thank you, I was so excited to see the oscar visually I didn't notice that and it probably went away right as I was looking at the map again lol I probably was waiting to hear MAD MAD MAD
@@ErisGriffon I'd be terrified of doing MAD passes on a shallow Oscar! Though I guess you've got a few sec to evade if you're close enough to see the Granit's doors opening 🤣
i have really enjoyed the channel so far. I've watched jive turkey for years and find it interesting that you two are both sonar people but have had completely different experiences while using the exact same systems. one surface and one submarine.
Thank you! Ah yeah we would have very different experiences and also equipment systems as well. All the hull and towed systems are actually different. I’m glad to hear you are enjoying the channel!
@ykxd66kslxykyuiclucmud6ksks wolf pack is alright. He doesn't really play like this gamer here. He doesn't map out the enemy ships rang like this guy. He basically spray and pray gamer, as for this gamer is strategic.
Oh yeah that was a fun game I used to play as a kid, I think I still have the original CD-ROM some where in my closet lol I am looking forward to microprose relaunching the title.
Harpoon was great! I had most of the add ons, too. Hopefully Sea Power improves their “encyclopedia” to better show in service dates like RA-5C out of service 1979, and all the never built ships and planes (Orel, P-42, mig25k) so you know when it a imaginative “what if” scenario
Good stuff. You can see that the mission maker and the player both know their ASW! Seeing your approach and tactics is a lot of fun. I'm here for more of it!
I think the way I would handle sonobuoys is to only have them actually do the full detection calculations when they are a) within communications range of a friendly unit and b) close enough to a hostile contact to at least in principle be able to hear it, those should both be very cheap calculations to do. And then perhaps also only consider the x closest sonobuoys to each contact, to limit the amount that are active at any given time.
Super interesting and enjoyable to watch ! You mentioned Dangerous Waters, would you consider playing it sometime in the future ? Your insight would be amazing.
ryu1940...hands down the best Sea Power videos out there right now! Thank you for your service to our country and the insight you bring to the videos. It's obvious you were a highly proficient and professional warfighter. The frame rate and visuals are always amazing in your vids...what hardware are you running the game on?
Tip; if you have a weapon/drawing tool selected, hitting escape once should clear it and let you click things normally again (Also, X is the default hotkey for cease fire)
@ryu1940 I was just reading a story about 80s ASW and the OT/STG arrangement for the stuff we had back then and how classified it was (still is, I guess). Got me fired up to prosecute some contacts. STGs did it all, man. Not only that but we knew stuff that most of the Fleet didn't. I do remember we didn't talk about it on my first ship that had it. Then I went to OHPs, and that all went out the window, lol. Then it was all .50 cal watches, boarding parties, and GMG stuff. We had it good, man.
When you are controlling the P-3s you can cut your speed down to loiter and it has a tighter turning radius. I am also not sure if you know you can use CTL and ALT for different size 9 buoy patterns.
@ryu1940 super tiny detail, but you had the P-3 stay very low when flying between datum points, was that to avoid possible enemy radar or just for convenience? I was thinking they'd probably climb to some altitude when flying longer distances...
37:04 probably the most scary sight to see, even in rain or shine. An Oscar SSGN lurking at launch depth, seen in clear water is really enough to make anyone shit their pants. 👀👀👀
I would bet a ton of money if that P-3 crew saw an Oscar like that in a wartime environment they would not be scared at all lol they would be extremely stoked they are about to absolutely demolish a behemoth.
@@ryu1940 Yup, but I'm still hanging onto hope that they'll do a multiplayer DLC so you can task organize much better and hopefully PvP. Too much to really command as you need to! But love it!
@@cases2939 they did say that while there's no plans for multiplayer even at full release, it is a sort of "stretch goal" if there's enough demand for it that they'll look into adding. I personally don't have interest in PvP since too many actual navy vets and active service play the game, but I'd love to do some co-op with friends
@@gormros I kind of lump Co-Op and PvP together under the banner of Multiplayer, because if you build the net-code it's silly not to enable both. And understood with navy guys playing, that's part of the fun if you're lucky enough to get to play with one! This isn't the kind of game where you're going to be running a server and having a lot of randos.
Man I would love PvP and Coop. I remember I think it was you @cases2939 we did dangerous waters sometime and you were up in the MH-60R while I was in the OHP. In Sea Power I agree, it would be very nice to divide out duties like you would to area warfare commanders like one dude in charge of air warfare and someone doing sub surface or surface etc. PvP would just naturally be a blast I love being competitive against other smart humans.
Great video as always! I have a couple of questions: 1. Why did you decide to close in on the datums with your ships instead of staying at a distance and just using your helicopters to cover the datum with sonar buoys? 2. When laying a tight sonar buoy field, what distance would you put between the sonorbuoys? You mentioned in a video once that they have a range of 3 NM so i tend to lay them with about 5 NM between them. Is this efficient? 3. Is it a valid strategy to trace the SS-N-19's track to get a bearing from which it was fired? I know the missile changes track as it locks on in the terminal phase but say if you detect it while it is still cruising at altitude? 4. Will you be doing the other missions by this modmaker? I've learned and inplemented a great from your videos. Thank you for the learning and entertainment! P.S. Sorry for the wall of text, I've only now noticed how much I've written!
Thanks! Sorry for the late reply i’m on a business trip and don’t have a lot of time to catch up with the comments. 1) Ideally you want to get contact with a larger shipboard sensor and then kill it with a helicopter. To do this you either need to detect the contact in a CZ or convergence zone or close the distance enough to pick up the contact directly. We want to get in the habit of doing this because using a lot of sonobuoys will be dangerous in the future if/when they are a tracked ammo where we have limited ship stocks. 2) Yeah I like using the 5nm detection range. If you’re too tight with buoy spacing you’ll end up using too many and when that stuff becomes tracked you’ll end up burning through sonobuoys after a few ASW engagements then needing replenishment. This is not a problem now for single player scenarios but I try to play as I would with the dynamic campaign in mind. 3) Yeah you could draw a line through that datum from the missile track and probably get a good line of bearing where it’s possible the submarine could be. 4) Oh yes I really enjoy iblank’s missions so I’ll feature more of them on the channel as they come out. Right now there is only one other one I haven’t played on the channel where you have to try and get ships into singapore. I’ll play that when I get back. Thank you for the watch!
Yeah, I completely agree with you about the RBUs. Technically possible to destroy a torpedo with an RBU but probably quite hard and like you say, literally impossible to get accurate targeting data to fire them accurately. Unfortunately it's really arcady as it is now and it also gives the red block a bit of an unfair advantage over the blue side.
An upgraded RBU system (the RPK-8 firing the 90R rocket, which is a slight modification of the RBU-6000) entered service in 1991, which fires guided depth charges that can apparently engage torpedoes with a modicum of success, but older RBUs with unguided depth charges couldn't really do so.
@@Jesse-qy6ur Theoretically yeah, but it's hard to get a good reading on them like he says in the video and then you'd have to coordinate it and fire accurately within a quite short timespan. It all adds upp to it being quite impropable, even with a newer version of the RBU.
RBU does use an active sonar for fire control but I am also very skeptical about the success rate. Supposedly RBU-1000 could launch decoys much like the PK-2 chaff launcher but again hard to say what is actual capability vs conjecture.
RBUs are light and cheap so it makes sense the Soviets and Russia strap them to everything. I feel like they're of extremely dubious value beyond the '60s though. Even by the late '60s technology was advancing so quickly that changes in tactics make more sense than trying to fire a bunch of rocket assisted depth charges at a needle in a haystack. Another common misconception about them is that their secondary purpose is for shore bombardment. It's unclear if this was ever an intended feature of the design and operationally it is only known to have been attempted during the Yugoslav wars (unsuccessfully at that). They have an incredibly short range to the point where firing small arms or mounted MGs would probably be significantly more effective (or just a naval gun if the shop has one). The new version makes it a cheaper option for engaging submarines in close but again I find it very dubious. I think it's another case of a pure cost analysis. Maybe it's good for morale having them present as it's sorta a plan B second line of defense, but I don't see any world in which firing an RBU comes before firing a torpedo.
It’s hard to talk to people in the know with an audience not in the know because we’d have to really watch what we say do the conversation would probably be boring lol I’d love to have a beer with him though and swap sea stories lol
If I find a sub scenario that piques my interest I’ll make one but usually the scenarios I play using subs are just supporting the surface fleet. I have a few videos teed up where I use subs with other forces.
41:20 I don't disagree that the RBUs shouldn't be capable as reliable anti-torpedo weapons, but would it not be possible to use TMA with a broadband track to determine the torpedo’s range? Not precise or accurate enough for a firing solution, but it should generate the rough position no?
@@stephenmurray7495 you'll just know something is getting louder not really enough to work off of..if you could imagine being blindfolded and your task is to hit an opposing player with a football who is zigging and zagging screaming at you as he runs towards you full speed, you might broadly have some information that he's super close or super far but not enough to hit the guy with the football. Now imagine doing this with you running away blindfolded cus you're doing the equivalent of a torpedo evasion maneuver, imagine how much harder it is now to discern the direction and range of his voice.
Hey, love your vids they are super educational and have made my time playing Sea Power much more enjoyable. I have a question though. Why would you not drop sonobouys into DATUM D01 and DATUM C01 with helis and keep the ships as far away as possible?
Thank you! A normal use for the ships is to find the submarine first then hand it off to the helicopter to kill and while right now this doesn't really matter, in the future if/when we get sonobuoys as part of a ship load-out, you're absolutely going to want to conserve the use of those things because once you run out of sonobuoys you're going to lose the ability to kill at range. Normally it is fine for one ASW scenario but imagine in a dynamic campaign you have an ASW encounter and spit out a ton of buoys....then two days later before you can replenish you're using a ton of sonobuoys again, then a third encounter not long after that and you've got no more to use from certain ships...it'll be a rough predicament.
If MAD detects in like a bubble around the aircraft, then the lower you are the larger range MAD has, so trying to be higher might be counterproductive.
It is a trade of vertical range you might make to stay higher and remain undetected by the submarine or also have the ability to use your surface search radar and get larger radar coverage. Another benefit if it ever gets changed in the game to be more realistic is you'd have better line of sight radio link ranges to your sonobuoys (right now it is hard capped to 15nm).
Not a dumb question at all generally the smaller things aren't going to be intercepted the same as a giant bow mounted active sonar array on a ship or submarine.
While hunting a sub for potentially hours, would the whole crew be at action stations while searching or would that only happen when you find something? Is crew fatigue a factor when hunting?
That is a great question but I can't really answer specifically what they do in real life in terms of readiness etc. I will say in my time I've been at it for days to weeks in some cases.
As I've heard: That's gonna depend on the type of ASW the ship(s) are engaged in. An active search, where they know for sure there's a sub out there, the crew stays at the ready. When they are hunting a suspected sub, after the initial hours (4-6hrs), they usually begin rotating the crew in A and B (sometimes C) teams off their duty watch stations for a couple of hours to eat and rest.
I see the author of this campaign made a third mission of this task force called Midnight Express, and is planning on 2 more after that. Do you think you will try those missions out?
Oh yeah I will try to make a video on the one that is out right now before I leave and I’ll definitely make videos on the others as they come out later.
I wonder if the game can work out even more complex scenarios like a neutral navy's subs operating in the same area, especially if they are similar classes to one another.
I really hope neutrals play a big part in the dynamic campaign. It will be so, so much more immersive and fun if you have to very carefully establish PID before engaging (ideally with significant repercussions for failure. Perhaps even international incidents that could bring other countries into the war or cause them to support the enemy, but that's probably outside of the realm of this game).
@@gormros afaik there will be regular civilian traffic in the game world as the campaign goes on so you'll have airliners going between cities and ships of different types going between ports making it necessary to figure out who is what before you open fire. That'll be super cool!
Be cautious about assuming artefacts are declass once they are in a museum. It would not be the first time a classified artefact has been on public display.
2nd comment, Ryu, have you also talked to the devs about the accuracy of the 76mm? I know this is the "missile age", but a modern fire-controlled 76mm against a trawler going low speed in a straight line within visual range SHOULD be more accurate than this, right?
The accuracy of guns in general in the game seem extremely weird. I recommend testing it in the editor. Iowa can hit tiny frigates going evasive at flank speed with her main guns but her secondaries seem significantly less accurate to a weird degree. Likewise various ships with the same gun perform wildly differently. Maybe it's a fire control difference but I mean, ballistics are ballistics and it seems like the raw accuracy of the guns differs unless I'm missing something.
Oh sorry I thought I commented on this but I think the accuracy is improved when you slow the ship down but yeah I am not sure how much more accurate it should be. I can't recall if that gun had any advanced stabilization to it and I don't believe it had an electro-optical sight to it. One thing I think should be a little different is the gun should probably fire in 3--5 round bursts to try and minimize dispersion and keep the barrel cool. I think right now it just fully auto fires until the ready mag is out of ammo.
I notice you had the Yarnell available as well but you didn't give her any instructions, was this an oversight or had you already decided on a previous playthrough that she was too far away to contribute?
Oh yeah sorry I didn't explain that, in the briefing it says Yarnell was detached so I wouldn't have control over her. It is similar to Operation Intercept, usually iBlank puts a friendly ship around the "neutral" P-3C so you can see it departing its base heading out to you to take control.
Hello Sir! Just wanna say I really enjoy your Sea Power videos. As a former airforce staff I'm a sucker for the combination of entertainment and IRL procedures/technical limitations etc. But please tell me, would it really be as easy to locate, and kill, four Soviet subs IRL as Sea Power depicts it? Would a hunted sub really loiter around at 400' depth at 5 kts, and not be diving to maximum depth and sprinting (as much as staying out of cavitaion would allow it to)? I hope I don't offend the dev team, but as of now, it seams a little too arcade like? Thank you for your always interesting videos :)
Thank you! Sea Power makes it feel more simple than it really would be because we’ve got virtual crew members who are doing the fine detail stuff for us given how the game is designed. Certainly if we did something like this in a game like Dangerous Waters (the best surface sonar game out there) you’d have to do a lot of tasks to detect and track a a contact. While I love DW for that level of detail I would not love it in Sea Power because it’s too much stuff you’d be forced to do which you wouldn’t really be dictating as a fleet commander or SAG/TF commander. In terms the AI they definitely can improve and the dev chats with me regularly when they have questions on what the likely course of action would be so I am confident they are working to improve it. It’s not beyond the realm of possibility that the sub would be slowly chilling if it doesn’t detect it is being tracked. If you’re using passive sonobuoys it’s unlikely to know whether or not you know where it’s at. If you’re detecting it on the tail and it can’t hear your other ships going active it will also not know it’s being tracked so it may not have any reason to do evasive maneuvering.
What range should the various buoys operate? I could try make a mod with different long range buoys for the P-3 Update: I can't change MAD height it seems to be hardcoded but the sonobuoys can be done
The SSQ-53 DIFAR buoys we have in the game are radio line of sight for range which means the range is a dynamic thing dependent on the altitude of both antennas. For the buoy you can probably put in something like 3 feet and the second antenna is on the aircraft so it depends on what alt they are flying at but to put it in perspective if we use 3 feet for the sonobuoy antenna and say the P-3 is going 6,000 feet, the combined line of sight range for connectivity would be 112nm. www.qsl.net/w4sat/horizon.htm you can use that or other various calculators online for RF line of sight calcs. In terms of the detection range I am not sure what it is in the game currently (I haven't fished through any files to extract the info) but it seems like it is under 5nm for very loud contacts like torpedoes and about 2-3nm for submarines which seems believable to me for game use.
This is a great game but I don't think it could be used a training tool for future sailors. If you were to join the Navy and wanted to prepare at least for the USN (I don't know what would be helpful in others) you should make sure you can meet and exceed the physical fitness standards so it is easier in boot camp and learn all the ranks and insignias before you go because when you're in you'll be expected to pick all that up in boot camp and it is a lot easier studying for something at home vs when a recruit division commander (like a drill sergeant) is yelling at you. Also if you don't know how to swim that is another thing that is easier to learn out in the civilian world vs in boot camp while instructors yell at you.
Just for Clarifying Anti torpedo Torpedo exist and Admiral Gorshkov equipped with this such type of anti torpedo torps (2 × 4 330 mm torpedo tubes for Paket-NK anti-torpedo/anti-submarine torpedoes)personally just tested it on cold water Epic MOD along with RBU Combine even a fast Spearfish Torpedo couldn't penetrate to my ship and it was good enough Defence Against Torpedo attack! . ALso tested American Torpedo Countermeasure Version Nixi or somthing like that.. its like Towed Array but it make noise and relay on fooling torpedo to itself then boom! then reracract and change new one for another round that part has very slow Reload in Danger situations also in salvo torpedo Attack scenarios with different Bearings!! yeah ... Boom happens but in ship side :)
Regarding the RBU anti-torpedo stuff, I brought that up under another video but was shot down immediately by the fans of the soviet navy, who were saying that of course the RBU is capable of killing torps. But that's totally implausible, given that modern western navies have still not got it to work with guided munitions today. How likely is it that 80s soviet mortars are effective?
yeah I don't doubt they could probably destroy or severely damage a torp if they detonate all around it but I don't really buy it tracking so precisely as it does in the game.
When you have a datum displayed like this, is it really a confident indication that the sub detected was in the center of the circle, or is it sort of a representation of uncertainty about where the sub is likely to be?
You bring up a great point with that question, it could be an area of uncertainty but I don't really treat it as such since I've found most mission designers will have it be somewhat closer to the center in the game.
Your thinking is slightly flawed. You are assuming he’s spawning directly in the center of that red circle? He could spawn at the very edge of it. In that case, your circles are meaningless.
yeah I mentioned this in another comment, it is very true he could be anywhere in that circle but I've noticed most mission designers will almost always put the sub somewhere near the center so I felt safe assuming that. If you don't want to make the assumption you can just modify the diameter of the circle but in practice in the game with how folks design missions that usually isn't warranted.
Has anyone noticed the ICS flags on the US ships? I thought there might be something interesting going on with them, so I checked a reference. Nope! Just seems to be: US Flag, "f-u-c-k" and "y-e-a-h". I feel like my brain is leaking. Someone help me.
Cold Waters is amazing. I wanna get this game because I know the developer cares and they're the same ones who made this game obviously. It took me quite a long time to get the mechanics down in Cold Waters since I have no military experience. I love the DOT mod in that game too and playing the soviet mission and having to earn my way up into better vessels.
You did get a MAD hit on that Oscar. If you take a look under where it says "Oscar" on the map next to the range it says "(S)" when it's just a SONAR hit, but when you fly your P-3 over it you'll see it says "(S/M)" for SONAR and magnetic. Also, you can press X to cease fire (like when you were done having the Reuben shoot the AGI).
You're absolutely right thank you, I was so excited to see the oscar visually I didn't notice that and it probably went away right as I was looking at the map again lol I probably was waiting to hear MAD MAD MAD
@@ErisGriffon I'd be terrified of doing MAD passes on a shallow Oscar! Though I guess you've got a few sec to evade if you're close enough to see the Granit's doors opening 🤣
Really love the casual talk between everything like how you talked about RBUs.
Thank you! I am glad you enjoy it!
i have really enjoyed the channel so far. I've watched jive turkey for years and find it interesting that you two are both sonar people but have had completely different experiences while using the exact same systems. one surface and one submarine.
Thank you! Ah yeah we would have very different experiences and also equipment systems as well. All the hull and towed systems are actually different. I’m glad to hear you are enjoying the channel!
Really enjoy your "reality driven" content, thnx
Thanks for watching I appreciate the support!
Man, I think you're the best gamer for this system..
Enjoy watching your game play.
Wow thanks man I appreciate that!
Subscibed because of it!!
wolfpack345?
@ykxd66kslxykyuiclucmud6ksks wolf pack is alright. He doesn't really play like this gamer here.
He doesn't map out the enemy ships rang like this guy.
He basically spray and pray gamer, as for this gamer is strategic.
Nice one. Preciate longer, in-depth videos and your expert, real-life knowledge. Keep up the good work!
Thank you! Much appreciated!
I remember Harpoon from back in the early 90s, which was like Sea Power without all the graphics.
Oh yeah that was a fun game I used to play as a kid, I think I still have the original CD-ROM some where in my closet lol I am looking forward to microprose relaunching the title.
Harpoon was great! I had most of the add ons, too.
Hopefully Sea Power improves their “encyclopedia” to better show in service dates like RA-5C out of service 1979, and all the never built ships and planes (Orel, P-42, mig25k) so you know when it a imaginative “what if” scenario
@@marknelson2073 Most excited about the RN, can't wait to play Falklands missions
There’s a relaunch listed on steam but no release date
Good stuff. You can see that the mission maker and the player both know their ASW! Seeing your approach and tactics is a lot of fun. I'm here for more of it!
Thank you! I really enjoy his missions they are realistic and have believable plots.
You are partially correct about the search pattern on the kneeboard card. But it’s for the SH-3 and they are dip plans
ah thanks for the information!
I think the way I would handle sonobuoys is to only have them actually do the full detection calculations when they are a) within communications range of a friendly unit and b) close enough to a hostile contact to at least in principle be able to hear it, those should both be very cheap calculations to do. And then perhaps also only consider the x closest sonobuoys to each contact, to limit the amount that are active at any given time.
Wooo! A full hour of chill sea power 🥰
I'm curious what the odds are of hitting a shipwreck with those deck guns, do you know?
I wouldn't count on it lol
@@ryu1940 holy crap that visual of the sub was so cool!! It's wild how much bigger the Oscar is than the P3. Like, mind boggling.
For the algorithmic deity!
haha thank you !
Really really loving the longer videos Ryu! Thanks so much man!
thanks for the support! I’ll definitely do these as well as the short form content mixed together
Thank you dude! I am learning alot about ASW from your vids!
Thanks for watching, I’m glad you are learning!
Thanks for the video. They guys at Cheers miss you!
Prosecuting Datums is great, although I would expect the datum to have a date-timegroup attached so you can establish ranges better.
ah yeah unfortunately we can't write any stuff down on the map in the game, sometimes I do write things on a notepad here on my desk though!
Great gameplay, would love to see more. Thanks.
Thanks for watching I definitely plan to do more like this especially if I come across good ASW scenarios.
Great video! Learned a lot, and fun to watch. You are good!
Thank you! I am glad you’re learning a lot and finding it entertaining too. Thanks for the feedback!
Super interesting and enjoyable to watch !
You mentioned Dangerous Waters, would you consider playing it sometime in the future ? Your insight would be amazing.
I could probably do some simple single ship ASW with the OHP some time that sounds like it would be fun.
ryu1940...hands down the best Sea Power videos out there right now! Thank you for your service to our country and the insight you bring to the videos. It's obvious you were a highly proficient and professional warfighter. The frame rate and visuals are always amazing in your vids...what hardware are you running the game on?
Thank you! I am running the game on a system made for flight simming so a 4090 video card 14900k cpu and 128gb ddr5 ram
Love your vids shipmate.
Thank you!
Tip; if you have a weapon/drawing tool selected, hitting escape once should clear it and let you click things normally again
(Also, X is the default hotkey for cease fire)
ah thanks for the tip!
Thanks for the spoiler warning. Lol. I gotta get my system set back up, so I'll be downloading this soon. Merry Christmas my brother STG!
Merry Christmas man! Yeah the game is super fun lol I have been having a blast killing subs with it.
@ryu1940 I was just reading a story about 80s ASW and the OT/STG arrangement for the stuff we had back then and how classified it was (still is, I guess). Got me fired up to prosecute some contacts. STGs did it all, man. Not only that but we knew stuff that most of the Fleet didn't. I do remember we didn't talk about it on my first ship that had it. Then I went to OHPs, and that all went out the window, lol. Then it was all .50 cal watches, boarding parties, and GMG stuff. We had it good, man.
When you are controlling the P-3s you can cut your speed down to loiter and it has a tighter turning radius. I am also not sure if you know you can use CTL and ALT for different size 9 buoy patterns.
ah yeah I don't like using the buoy patterns but that is a great tip for those who do and also cutting the speed down is a great idea thanks!
@ryu1940 super tiny detail, but you had the P-3 stay very low when flying between datum points, was that to avoid possible enemy radar or just for convenience? I was thinking they'd probably climb to some altitude when flying longer distances...
@ that was for convenience so he could start spitting buoys getting on station and I wouldn’t have to babysit him to descend
37:04 probably the most scary sight to see, even in rain or shine.
An Oscar SSGN lurking at launch depth, seen in clear water is really enough to make anyone shit their pants. 👀👀👀
I would bet a ton of money if that P-3 crew saw an Oscar like that in a wartime environment they would not be scared at all lol they would be extremely stoked they are about to absolutely demolish a behemoth.
@@ryu1940 yep, sends a message of: *"You can hide all you want, but we can still see you from above."*
There's a pretty nice mod that adds AGM-119 and AGM-65's to SH-2/3 helicopters, Probably is the best way to deal with AGI's or Ashm batteries.
Hey RYU! Good to see you from the "Special Other Topic"
hey man! o7 Have you tried this game at all?
@@ryu1940 Yup, but I'm still hanging onto hope that they'll do a multiplayer DLC so you can task organize much better and hopefully PvP. Too much to really command as you need to! But love it!
@@cases2939 they did say that while there's no plans for multiplayer even at full release, it is a sort of "stretch goal" if there's enough demand for it that they'll look into adding. I personally don't have interest in PvP since too many actual navy vets and active service play the game, but I'd love to do some co-op with friends
@@gormros I kind of lump Co-Op and PvP together under the banner of Multiplayer, because if you build the net-code it's silly not to enable both. And understood with navy guys playing, that's part of the fun if you're lucky enough to get to play with one! This isn't the kind of game where you're going to be running a server and having a lot of randos.
Man I would love PvP and Coop. I remember I think it was you @cases2939 we did dangerous waters sometime and you were up in the MH-60R while I was in the OHP. In Sea Power I agree, it would be very nice to divide out duties like you would to area warfare commanders like one dude in charge of air warfare and someone doing sub surface or surface etc. PvP would just naturally be a blast I love being competitive against other smart humans.
Great video as always! I have a couple of questions:
1. Why did you decide to close in on the datums with your ships instead of staying at a distance and just using your helicopters to cover the datum with sonar buoys?
2. When laying a tight sonar buoy field, what distance would you put between the sonorbuoys? You mentioned in a video once that they have a range of 3 NM so i tend to lay them with about 5 NM between them. Is this efficient?
3. Is it a valid strategy to trace the SS-N-19's track to get a bearing from which it was fired? I know the missile changes track as it locks on in the terminal phase but say if you detect it while it is still cruising at altitude?
4. Will you be doing the other missions by this modmaker?
I've learned and inplemented a great from your videos. Thank you for the learning and entertainment!
P.S. Sorry for the wall of text, I've only now noticed how much I've written!
Thanks! Sorry for the late reply i’m on a business trip and don’t have a lot of time to catch up with the comments.
1) Ideally you want to get contact with a larger shipboard sensor and then kill it with a helicopter. To do this you either need to detect the contact in a CZ or convergence zone or close the distance enough to pick up the contact directly. We want to get in the habit of doing this because using a lot of sonobuoys will be dangerous in the future if/when they are a tracked ammo where we have limited ship stocks.
2) Yeah I like using the 5nm detection range. If you’re too tight with buoy spacing you’ll end up using too many and when that stuff becomes tracked you’ll end up burning through sonobuoys after a few ASW engagements then needing replenishment. This is not a problem now for single player scenarios but I try to play as I would with the dynamic campaign in mind.
3) Yeah you could draw a line through that datum from the missile track and probably get a good line of bearing where it’s possible the submarine could be.
4) Oh yes I really enjoy iblank’s missions so I’ll feature more of them on the channel as they come out. Right now there is only one other one I haven’t played on the channel where you have to try and get ships into singapore. I’ll play that when I get back.
Thank you for the watch!
@ryu1940 thank you for the extended reply and for your videos!
Yeah, I completely agree with you about the RBUs. Technically possible to destroy a torpedo with an RBU but probably quite hard and like you say, literally impossible to get accurate targeting data to fire them accurately. Unfortunately it's really arcady as it is now and it also gives the red block a bit of an unfair advantage over the blue side.
An upgraded RBU system (the RPK-8 firing the 90R rocket, which is a slight modification of the RBU-6000) entered service in 1991, which fires guided depth charges that can apparently engage torpedoes with a modicum of success, but older RBUs with unguided depth charges couldn't really do so.
If I have two ships and a data link between them, could I triangulate them to within the CEP of the RBU launcher?
@@Jesse-qy6ur Theoretically yeah, but it's hard to get a good reading on them like he says in the video and then you'd have to coordinate it and fire accurately within a quite short timespan. It all adds upp to it being quite impropable, even with a newer version of the RBU.
RBU does use an active sonar for fire control but I am also very skeptical about the success rate. Supposedly RBU-1000 could launch decoys much like the PK-2 chaff launcher but again hard to say what is actual capability vs conjecture.
RBUs are light and cheap so it makes sense the Soviets and Russia strap them to everything. I feel like they're of extremely dubious value beyond the '60s though. Even by the late '60s technology was advancing so quickly that changes in tactics make more sense than trying to fire a bunch of rocket assisted depth charges at a needle in a haystack.
Another common misconception about them is that their secondary purpose is for shore bombardment. It's unclear if this was ever an intended feature of the design and operationally it is only known to have been attempted during the Yugoslav wars (unsuccessfully at that). They have an incredibly short range to the point where firing small arms or mounted MGs would probably be significantly more effective (or just a naval gun if the shop has one).
The new version makes it a cheaper option for engaging submarines in close but again I find it very dubious. I think it's another case of a pure cost analysis. Maybe it's good for morale having them present as it's sorta a plan B second line of defense, but I don't see any world in which firing an RBU comes before firing a torpedo.
I would love to see you do a head to head or a breakdown/conversation with Aaron @ SubBrief. An OHP sonar guy vs a Los Angeles class sonar guy 😮
Wouldn't it be awesome to see a SP multilayer with Cap. Aaron in the USS Jive Turkey, the world famous flt 1 688, vs him in his fav OHP!
It’s hard to talk to people in the know with an audience not in the know because we’d have to really watch what we say do the conversation would probably be boring lol I’d love to have a beer with him though and swap sea stories lol
Love it!
Thanks!
What the devil is a "Reuben James"?
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Reuben_James_(FFG-57)
@ryu1940 It's a quote from Red Storm Rising ;) I guess I'm the only old guy here 🤣
ah lol I haven’t read that in decades I might have to reread it again soon
@@ryu1940 I have it on Audible, I listen to it to most nights to get to sleep 🤣
At least we don’t name our ships after our mother-in-laws
54:49 you can press x to get them to cease fire
Thanks someone else also mentioned that and it is a very handy tip!
Holes in boats? Don't mind if I do!
I would love to see you play Dangerous Waters too
I'll try to play some DW when I get back. One thing I dislike is the terrible game res as I play on giant 4k panel so it is worst than minecraft lol
Would be great if you approached missions like this from the subs POV. Where you explain to us how to better counteract asw tactics
If I find a sub scenario that piques my interest I’ll make one but usually the scenarios I play using subs are just supporting the surface fleet. I have a few videos teed up where I use subs with other forces.
41:20 I don't disagree that the RBUs shouldn't be capable as reliable anti-torpedo weapons, but would it not be possible to use TMA with a broadband track to determine the torpedo’s range? Not precise or accurate enough for a firing solution, but it should generate the rough position no?
Nah you'd need time to figure range and you won't have a enough of it when you detect the torpedo.
There are some cool tidbits in here: archive.navalsubleague.org/1991/target-motion-analysis-innovations-by-naval-officers
So simple amplitude won't give you anything?
@@stephenmurray7495 you'll just know something is getting louder not really enough to work off of..if you could imagine being blindfolded and your task is to hit an opposing player with a football who is zigging and zagging screaming at you as he runs towards you full speed, you might broadly have some information that he's super close or super far but not enough to hit the guy with the football. Now imagine doing this with you running away blindfolded cus you're doing the equivalent of a torpedo evasion maneuver, imagine how much harder it is now to discern the direction and range of his voice.
Hey, love your vids they are super educational and have made my time playing Sea Power much more enjoyable. I have a question though. Why would you not drop sonobouys into DATUM D01 and DATUM C01 with helis and keep the ships as far away as possible?
Thank you! A normal use for the ships is to find the submarine first then hand it off to the helicopter to kill and while right now this doesn't really matter, in the future if/when we get sonobuoys as part of a ship load-out, you're absolutely going to want to conserve the use of those things because once you run out of sonobuoys you're going to lose the ability to kill at range. Normally it is fine for one ASW scenario but imagine in a dynamic campaign you have an ASW encounter and spit out a ton of buoys....then two days later before you can replenish you're using a ton of sonobuoys again, then a third encounter not long after that and you've got no more to use from certain ships...it'll be a rough predicament.
@ Ah that makes total sense. Thanks for the quick and thoughtful reply!
@@jacobprice5450 no problem!
If MAD detects in like a bubble around the aircraft, then the lower you are the larger range MAD has, so trying to be higher might be counterproductive.
It is a trade of vertical range you might make to stay higher and remain undetected by the submarine or also have the ability to use your surface search radar and get larger radar coverage. Another benefit if it ever gets changed in the game to be more realistic is you'd have better line of sight radio link ranges to your sonobuoys (right now it is hard capped to 15nm).
40:45 Forgive me if this is a dumb question, I know very little about this kind of stuff, but what about the pings from the torpedo's active sonar?
Not a dumb question at all generally the smaller things aren't going to be intercepted the same as a giant bow mounted active sonar array on a ship or submarine.
While hunting a sub for potentially hours, would the whole crew be at action stations while searching or would that only happen when you find something? Is crew fatigue a factor when hunting?
That is a great question but I can't really answer specifically what they do in real life in terms of readiness etc. I will say in my time I've been at it for days to weeks in some cases.
As I've heard:
That's gonna depend on the type of ASW the ship(s) are engaged in.
An active search, where they know for sure there's a sub out there, the crew stays at the ready.
When they are hunting a suspected sub, after the initial hours (4-6hrs), they usually begin rotating the crew in A and B (sometimes C) teams off their duty watch stations for a couple of hours to eat and rest.
Subscibed!!
Thanks!
I see the author of this campaign made a third mission of this task force called Midnight Express, and is planning on 2 more after that. Do you think you will try those missions out?
Oh yeah I will try to make a video on the one that is out right now before I leave and I’ll definitely make videos on the others as they come out later.
@@ryu1940 nice!
I wonder if the game can work out even more complex scenarios like a neutral navy's subs operating in the same area, especially if they are similar classes to one another.
I think you can make neutral subs in the editor to make a scenario like that.
I really hope neutrals play a big part in the dynamic campaign. It will be so, so much more immersive and fun if you have to very carefully establish PID before engaging (ideally with significant repercussions for failure. Perhaps even international incidents that could bring other countries into the war or cause them to support the enemy, but that's probably outside of the realm of this game).
@@gormros afaik there will be regular civilian traffic in the game world as the campaign goes on so you'll have airliners going between cities and ships of different types going between ports making it necessary to figure out who is what before you open fire. That'll be super cool!
Be cautious about assuming artefacts are declass once they are in a museum. It would not be the first time a classified artefact has been on public display.
oh yeah I’ll definitely ask the staff about it if I see it next time.
Whoaa tricky, when were you in the Jeff? Last few weeks I saw you streaming I saw you only in WT😢
lol did you get this video mixed up with a Tricker video?
@@ryu1940 whupsy yes lmao, one slide up it was tricker
2nd comment, Ryu, have you also talked to the devs about the accuracy of the 76mm? I know this is the "missile age", but a modern fire-controlled 76mm against a trawler going low speed in a straight line within visual range SHOULD be more accurate than this, right?
The accuracy of guns in general in the game seem extremely weird. I recommend testing it in the editor. Iowa can hit tiny frigates going evasive at flank speed with her main guns but her secondaries seem significantly less accurate to a weird degree. Likewise various ships with the same gun perform wildly differently. Maybe it's a fire control difference but I mean, ballistics are ballistics and it seems like the raw accuracy of the guns differs unless I'm missing something.
Oh sorry I thought I commented on this but I think the accuracy is improved when you slow the ship down but yeah I am not sure how much more accurate it should be. I can't recall if that gun had any advanced stabilization to it and I don't believe it had an electro-optical sight to it. One thing I think should be a little different is the gun should probably fire in 3--5 round bursts to try and minimize dispersion and keep the barrel cool. I think right now it just fully auto fires until the ready mag is out of ammo.
I notice you had the Yarnell available as well but you didn't give her any instructions, was this an oversight or had you already decided on a previous playthrough that she was too far away to contribute?
Oh yeah sorry I didn't explain that, in the briefing it says Yarnell was detached so I wouldn't have control over her. It is similar to Operation Intercept, usually iBlank puts a friendly ship around the "neutral" P-3C so you can see it departing its base heading out to you to take control.
@@ryu1940 Oh OK that makes sense, thanks for clarifying! Great work on the video as always, I learn something new every time
Hello Sir! Just wanna say I really enjoy your Sea Power videos. As a former airforce staff I'm a sucker for the combination of entertainment and IRL procedures/technical limitations etc. But please tell me, would it really be as easy to locate, and kill, four Soviet subs IRL as Sea Power depicts it? Would a hunted sub really loiter around at 400' depth at 5 kts, and not be diving to maximum depth and sprinting (as much as staying out of cavitaion would allow it to)? I hope I don't offend the dev team, but as of now, it seams a little too arcade like?
Thank you for your always interesting videos :)
Thank you! Sea Power makes it feel more simple than it really would be because we’ve got virtual crew members who are doing the fine detail stuff for us given how the game is designed. Certainly if we did something like this in a game like Dangerous Waters (the best surface sonar game out there) you’d have to do a lot of tasks to detect and track a a contact. While I love DW for that level of detail I would not love it in Sea Power because it’s too much stuff you’d be forced to do which you wouldn’t really be dictating as a fleet commander or SAG/TF commander.
In terms the AI they definitely can improve and the dev chats with me regularly when they have questions on what the likely course of action would be so I am confident they are working to improve it.
It’s not beyond the realm of possibility that the sub would be slowly chilling if it doesn’t detect it is being tracked. If you’re using passive sonobuoys it’s unlikely to know whether or not you know where it’s at. If you’re detecting it on the tail and it can’t hear your other ships going active it will also not know it’s being tracked so it may not have any reason to do evasive maneuvering.
@@ryu1940 Thx a lot! Appreciate it :)
The towed array comes out of what??
the brasshole for short haha
What range should the various buoys operate? I could try make a mod with different long range buoys for the P-3 Update: I can't change MAD height it seems to be hardcoded but the sonobuoys can be done
The SSQ-53 DIFAR buoys we have in the game are radio line of sight for range which means the range is a dynamic thing dependent on the altitude of both antennas. For the buoy you can probably put in something like 3 feet and the second antenna is on the aircraft so it depends on what alt they are flying at but to put it in perspective if we use 3 feet for the sonobuoy antenna and say the P-3 is going 6,000 feet, the combined line of sight range for connectivity would be 112nm. www.qsl.net/w4sat/horizon.htm you can use that or other various calculators online for RF line of sight calcs.
In terms of the detection range I am not sure what it is in the game currently (I haven't fished through any files to extract the info) but it seems like it is under 5nm for very loud contacts like torpedoes and about 2-3nm for submarines which seems believable to me for game use.
@@ryu1940 Thanks mate I will get to work on it. Just out of curiosity would the lack of transmitter power reduce the range somewhat?
Tried playing it myself, had different events, ended up dropping sonobouys wrong for 71 minutes finding no subs. Now to watch a pro lol.
oh wow lol hopefully the video helps !
Hey, I'm thinking of joining the navy. You think this game is a good precursor for training or is it just a waste of time in that regard 😅
This is a great game but I don't think it could be used a training tool for future sailors. If you were to join the Navy and wanted to prepare at least for the USN (I don't know what would be helpful in others) you should make sure you can meet and exceed the physical fitness standards so it is easier in boot camp and learn all the ranks and insignias before you go because when you're in you'll be expected to pick all that up in boot camp and it is a lot easier studying for something at home vs when a recruit division commander (like a drill sergeant) is yelling at you. Also if you don't know how to swim that is another thing that is easier to learn out in the civilian world vs in boot camp while instructors yell at you.
Just for Clarifying Anti torpedo Torpedo exist and Admiral Gorshkov equipped with this such type of anti torpedo torps (2 × 4 330 mm torpedo tubes for Paket-NK anti-torpedo/anti-submarine torpedoes)personally just tested it on cold water Epic MOD along with RBU Combine even a fast Spearfish Torpedo couldn't penetrate to my ship and it was good enough Defence Against Torpedo attack! . ALso tested American Torpedo Countermeasure Version Nixi or somthing like that.. its like Towed Array but it make noise and relay on fooling torpedo to itself then boom! then reracract and change new one for another round that part has very slow Reload in Danger situations also in salvo torpedo Attack scenarios with different Bearings!! yeah ... Boom happens but in ship side :)
Regarding the RBU anti-torpedo stuff, I brought that up under another video but was shot down immediately by the fans of the soviet navy, who were saying that of course the RBU is capable of killing torps. But that's totally implausible, given that modern western navies have still not got it to work with guided munitions today. How likely is it that 80s soviet mortars are effective?
yeah I don't doubt they could probably destroy or severely damage a torp if they detonate all around it but I don't really buy it tracking so precisely as it does in the game.
When you have a datum displayed like this, is it really a confident indication that the sub detected was in the center of the circle, or is it sort of a representation of uncertainty about where the sub is likely to be?
You bring up a great point with that question, it could be an area of uncertainty but I don't really treat it as such since I've found most mission designers will have it be somewhat closer to the center in the game.
Your thinking is slightly flawed. You are assuming he’s spawning directly in the center of that red circle? He could spawn at the very edge of it. In that case, your circles are meaningless.
yeah I mentioned this in another comment, it is very true he could be anywhere in that circle but I've noticed most mission designers will almost always put the sub somewhere near the center so I felt safe assuming that. If you don't want to make the assumption you can just modify the diameter of the circle but in practice in the game with how folks design missions that usually isn't warranted.
@@ryu1940 oh I thought it was random somewhere in the circle.
Has anyone noticed the ICS flags on the US ships?
I thought there might be something interesting going on with them, so I checked a reference. Nope! Just seems to be: US Flag, "f-u-c-k" and "y-e-a-h".
I feel like my brain is leaking. Someone help me.
hahah I am actually going to do a video on the flags and various naval flags with their meanings soon!
The Good Reuben James: ruclips.net/video/VR2-gk9ixYM/видео.htmlsi=po6ElUjnMrsQ9wrE
Cold Waters is amazing. I wanna get this game because I know the developer cares and they're the same ones who made this game obviously. It took me quite a long time to get the mechanics down in Cold Waters since I have no military experience. I love the DOT mod in that game too and playing the soviet mission and having to earn my way up into better vessels.
Oh yeah this team is pretty amazing coming from cold waters !