Why Antenna Viewers Lose Channels When ATSC 3.0 Launches
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- Опубликовано: 1 янв 2024
- In this video, I explain a few reasons why some free over the air channels disappear when ATSC 3.0/NextGen TV launches in a given market.
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Affiliate Link to the Mediasonic DTV box on Amazon 👉 amzn.to/3J78FxE
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ebay.us/Ih7aYD
ebay.us/IlwNYx
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I own the Mediasonic ATSC 1.0 dtv box and it has one of the best ATSC 1.0 TV receiver/tuner in the TV business with HDMI and RCA outputs, MPEG-4 decoding, fast channel changing, TV signal strength meter, and optional recording capabilities.
Mediasonic ATSC 1.0 tuner is Superior to the poor ATSC 1.0 built-in tuner inside of the (ADTH NEXTGEN-TV 3.0 tuner box).
Mediasonic Homeworx hw-150pvr-y22 is a very good ATSC 1.0 tuner. A great value at a low price. It uses a different remote control infrared code set so you can also use the ("ViewTV" ATSC 1.0 tuner) or some other popular 1.0 tuners at the same time without remote control interference between them.
This is only more information to help you decide if this tuner is worth the very low price. It is cheaper than cable TV and ATSC 1.0 TV is going to be around for many more years.
IMO 2024.
I have this Mediasonic box, but the online description (Amazon) says nothing about Mpeg 4 or ATSC 3.0. What am I missing?? Thank you for your info channel on RUclips!
@@jeffreywyke368 Mediasonic dtv box does not have an ATSC 3.0 NEXTGEN-TV tuner. This is an ATSC 1.0 DTV tuner box with the ability to decode MPEG-4 TV signals broadcast over ATSC 1.0 TV Stations.
Finely got rid of cable T.V after 7 years.and just go with Wii-FI internet for the start of the new year 2024. Saying hello My old Antenna but only picks up a few , not CBS ,ABC ,CW ,Me T.V. and a list of others.Also ,without the power of the internet, they're gos your chances of doing very much.
I have the smaller Homeworx box that only outputs HDMI. The box doesn't decomb interlaced video. I don't know if that's normal. I've tried other output resolutions and progressive or interlace, but channels that have interlaced video are output over the HDMI with the fields stacked. I don't know if there's anything I can do about it. I just find it ugly. I wish it would output the fields as frames at 60 fps than to look at stacked video.
This is why the FCC should be made up of engineers, not lawyers and corporate cronies.
As an engineer, I will add, "and users such as the public that watches TV".
Thank you, I've been saying this for years! Ever since The Grand Alliance persuaded the feds (FCC) to mandate 8VSB instead of COFDM, I knew something wasn't right. And now, the industry has to go to COFDM for ATSC 3.. go figure.
tell that to Congress…
Realistically all the "problems" in this video are things that should have been done in 2009 when we first went digital, they aren't issues and they essentially aren't problems for the engineers since it's working exactly as they expect it to
That's capitalism for ya - the cronies always find the cracks and wiggle their way into the legislative process. Every. Time.
Your videos just keep getting better and better. Thank you AntennaMan for keeping us informed
Tyler, thanks for this info, I visited my elderly parents last week & noticed they weren’t receiving WPIX-11, I did a channel rescan on their 3 sets but only the newer LG received 11’s sub channels. Now I know why, they’re running MPEG4. Thanks as always, appreciate your help!
WPIX 11.1 NOW ATSC 3.0 So is
wnet 13 pbs 21 long island
rewind tv antenna tv still 1.0
Saw that during friends and two and a half man. wpix
@@joe10117 I am glad to know this isn't just happening on my set. I can no longer get WPIX Channel 11.2 ( Antenna TV ) & Rewind TV 11. 4 & now WNET 13 to ? I was also wondering why I'm not getting WLIW 21 either. 😱
This might explain why I can't get Charge or ION-TV anymore since about 2 months ago. One of the numbered channels actually changed to broadcast QVC, so not sure if a channel swap happened, or they just decided to replace those channels.
I wish that it was required by law that the broadcast stations must notify the public audience of any changes or upcoming changes to stations being added or lost!
They are required to run a scrolling message on their channel before the move but many don't see it. I believe it only shows up every hour or so.
When analog tv shut down and first round of channel changes it was mentioned many times on local tv news. Third largest market Chicago.
This wouldn't be an issue if the FCC would mandate that manufacturers who produce ATSC 1.0 receiving equipment implement the ENTIRE ATSC 1.0 specification. H.264/MPEG-4 was finalized for ATSC 1.0 in 2008, so manufacturers have had 15 years to get this integrated.
Right now, I'm pissed off at TabloTV. I own a third-generation box that, I have discovered, is not fully compatible with ATSC 1.0 and that the spec it isn't following has been around for 15 years. There no excuse for this, especially since it would be a negligible cost factor. And the FCC won't mandate this as they're too busy trying to find more spectrum to sell off to the cell phone companies.
Interestingly, most FTA satellite channels are already using MPEG4 as its primary standard of video codec. Some channels are already using HEVC, a step up from MPEG4.
ATSC 3.0 itself uses HEVC. The problem is with ATSC 1.0 tuners that don't have MPEG-4 decoders, or for some network tuners can't stream the signal to a device with an MPEG-4 decoder. It's similar to the problem some ATSC 3.0 tuners have with Dolby AC-4, the audio codec most of those stations use.
@@richellebrittain2127 What a jumbled transition period right now, huh? Some old device work, some don't. Do you need MPEG-2, 4 or HEVC to view the channels you once easily picked up decades ago. If an ATSC 3.0 decoder was backward compatible, I suppose that's what everyone will eventually need to buy. The encryption part still sucks to be part of that and encourage it's use by participating in the ATSC 3.0 big brother data grab.
You still the man Antenna Man when it comes to the latest info on what's going on. Thanks.
Thank you Tyler, for the post up during the video on WPIX Channel 11.1 in
New York City, I thought it's my set. It's a slightly older model with the original converter box that follwed later. Antenna TV , 11.2 & 11.4 Rewind TV remains black screen as broadcasts continue like a radio. I am so annoyed by this. That's additional money I have to spend for channels I occasionally watch ?
An update: CIRCLE TV in my area of WCBS TV 2.5 just got occupied by HSN (?) which is on WABC 7.4 in New York City.
I'm still missing Dabl previous format & programs.The viewers would like to see
Life Style moved to another channel as a loyal viewer. This is a crummy blow & changes of the networks decision. What a Boo of the year.
Thanking you once again, Tyler for this update 👍video as well. 📺📻
As a cable cutter. I am glad you are highlighting this issue.
Great explanation, Tyler. Thanks. I will be sharing.
Thanks for the detailed explanation.
I expected this to happen as TV channels got squeezed lower again,
I believe my research shows Channel
36 and below. Yes this is causing
problems as higher frequencies,
(Bandwith), is sold to wireless, as
you previously explained.
It's a long way from first having 83
NTSC Channels on a TV in the 80's,
which you could tune in early analog
cell calls, until the cell dropped, then
only up to Channel 69, and so on. Now
it has come back to bit the OTA
reception.
I had a UHF TV yagi back in the 60's,
which was quite good, cut for channels
14-51.
Finally, my amateur radio friend who
was killed on 911 at the WTC, was on
duty that day at Channel 11, WPIX TV.
I also with a couple of friends we're
on that Channel in 1961, while in High
School, with Chuck McCann emcee
of the Laurel and Hardy TV show. 😊
I used to get an extra 12 channels for the summer months. They are 70-75 miles away. Now they do not come in at all or just 4-5 days out of that period. Which leads me to believe that they have reduced the signals to sway people back to Cable TV.
interesting
No. Its called atmospheric ducting when the signal is that far away. It has more to do with temperature inversions
Stations are permitted to run at their rated power UNLESS they interfere with other stations. It’s quite possible the FCC instructed them to reduce their power some. Ask for the chief engineer at the station. If there have been no changes at their end then you know you need to adjust the location of your antenna slightly. I only have ONE location in my yard at an elevation of no more than 10 ft where I can receive a station 70 mi away with no issues. If I go higher, say 20 or 30 ft. The signal is very poor. You need to find your hot spot! Might just be a foot in either direction from where your antenna is now.
@@RickPaquin yeah, thanks, its time to try some adjustments.
@@RickPaquin Or you have to hold your foot in either direction for reception. ;)
I think I had the opposite happen. When I first got an antenna, I was unable to get Decades (now Catchy Comedy), because it was on some crappy low power station that wasn’t affiliated with any of the major networks. But several months ago, it showed up as channel 4.5, hosted by WBZ, the Boston CBS affiliate. I can pull in all the major networks very well, so I haven’t lost anything. The crappy low power station isn’t worth the trouble to try to pick up, anyway.
FYI - I noticed that you mentioned Circle in this video. The channel is now gone from all OTA markets. It has not shut down completely, it is now being offered as a free streaming app. So if anyone who watches it is wondering why they can’t find it, that’s why.
In some markets, Circle was either replaced by The365 or Outlaw TV...
Circle gone for connecticut market too
@@joe10117 Circle is no longer broadcasting on subchannels and is instead a streaming channel.
That is really too bad because Circie would show old classic movies like Big Hand Luke and many western films. It was also available on Peacock and Frndly TV which was nice. For whatever reason in LA they replaced Stadium on 9.2 with this other channel called The Nest which features true crime, house flipping shows, and reality TV. Who wants to watch old reality TV shows from the 2000's?
@@Klingonmastr Stadium was replaced by The Nest as recently as October 2023 just about everywhere...
I gained a channel as a result of ATSC 3.0. WHUT is the host channel in DC and their ATSC 1.0 signal is carried on the much stronger WJLA signal.
I also gained a couple of channels due to other channel sharing. WHAG 25.1 is hosted by WDCW and WJAL 68.1 is hosted by WUSA. I didn’t get either of those stations before the channel sharing.
Good to know that my Mediasonic box will decode MPG4. I use a TIVO HD now but ,being in the Chicago area,I may have to dust it off. Great info,Tyler.
Just proves to many that Digital Terrestrial (both TV and Radio) has become the Betamax of Broadcasting in general. On-Demand Internet TV & Podcasts, have become the default for watching & listening to content - completely bypassing scheduled broadcasts in most circumstances. ATSC and DVB-T have made the same mistakes as they did before - further, they're not 'backwards compatible', despite many claiming to be 'HD ready' (MPEG4 & higher quality audio compression codecs have been missing from ATSC & DVB-T, but many stations using this to decrease the quality of the received program out of 'cheapness'). At least with NTSC, PAL & SECAM, you could still provide backward compatibility for colour whilst allowing older B&W sets to display the signal. If the only answer is to 'upgrade your antenna and TV' at a time when most people can't afford to do basics to the next paycheque, let alone upgrade their radios & TV to the 'latest thing', then it just isn't feasible - that's if there was anything on MSM that was 'worth' watching in the first place. The industry keeps shooting itself in the foot and won't admit they failed.
I didnt know this happened! ATSC 3.0 is already in my market before i got an antenna, and never noticed an issue with atsc 1.0
i'm waiting to get a 3.0 tuner once they're the price of the 2009 tuners
Thanks Tyler your channel is so helpful I cannot express it enough 😊
Now i know why one of my channels is audio only..thanks for the info.
I read that the Circle network went to steaming only on January 1, 2024 which may be why they can not get that channel.
I live in Chicago. SO glad I watch your videos.
I don’t mind the channel realignment for better reception, but I don’t want to see more bad programming with networks switching affiliates like what happened with CW and some independent stations. Because I want to be able to watch my channels without anymore hassle.
Thank you keep making these videos even if its "beating a dead horse" make gripping titles etc.
This happened to me. I lost three stations. I'm disabled and poor and I can't afford cable so I NEED antenna reception. smh
Sorry to hear about this. Send me an email and I'll see if I can make some cheap suggestions to help. www.antennamanpa.com/contact.html
Happened to me as well.
For those asking about Chicago. CBS 2 will be the host for ASTC 3.0 They posted on there website that you need to rescan your TV on 1-22 to keep watching CBS 2. There is no other imfo yet on what channels will be available on ASTC 3.0 in Chicago
I originally posted a link with the info about Chicago but I don't think you can post links in the comments cuz it was taken down right after I posted it.
@@davidsnow3062the article got updated to feb 5 now
I had the disappearance of the WPIX 11 sub channels on both my televisions. I just replaced my (working) 15 year old Samsung LCD, with a new Samsung LED TV. Voila! they came back. I wasn't sure what the problem was since the main channel was OK. Your explanation was well said......
the sensitivity of the new TV might be better
Thanks for the information in this video
I live in Charleston sc and now pick up more stations
Can’t complain about lost channels no have more new channels
2 antennas went to a wedding ,the wedding was shit but the reception was brilliant 😂.
Buh dump bump. Chhhhhh.
Antennae! Plural in Latin. Wah wah wah...
@@echodelta9 Tá an ceart agat 😂.
My ATSC converter box died. I opted to replace it with with a new ATSC 1.0 box. I am going to let the mess that is the roll out of the 3.0 standard and DRM settle for a while before I bother getting a 3.0 box if I ever do. If said box needs and internet connection, I am not buying it. The 1.0 boxes do a nice job of recording the stuff in the small hours of the morning that I may want to watch later.
Advertisers note: This means I watch your ads at some other time.
Stay tuned to my RUclips channel for more cord-cutting, antenna-related videos, and HAVE AN AWESOME DAY!
Thank you Tyler for the explanation. I was wondering why I only heard audio on WPIX subchannels Antenna TV & Rewind TV on my TVs. Only my Mediasonic DTV box received both audio and video for those channels.
Another great video, thanks for sharing!
The info great. It explains why I lost at least 5 channels in my area.
About this time last year I had about 10 channels
I only get off the air TV mainly for my wife. So far in the south central PA TV market we have just two LP ATSC 3.0 channels that are duplicates of ATSC 1.0 stations. So if and when one or more of the ATSC 1.0 stations convert over to ATSC 3.0 we are screwed until we can get the proper TV converter box. I don't intend to have to buy another TV set period!
Thanks for the heads up. I don't have cable and use an antenna. Concerned that atsc 3.0 might cause me to lose channels. I subscribed to keep tuned in for updates.
Thanks for this video which solves a mystery for me regarding WPIX's recent ATSC 3.0 launch in NYC. WPIX's ATSC 1.0 11.1 is being hosted by WABC both VHF. The WPIX subs 11.2 and 11.4 are being hosted by WXTV UHF. I have an older Coby flat screen and after rescan I found 11.2 and 11.4 wouldn't display even though the info says a good signal is there. Apparently the Coby does not recognize the mp4 as you say. Another tv does work and the Mediasonic box works too. As you say you have to know which band you're dealing with regarding any changes with ATSC 3.0 launches and reassignment of the ATSC 1.0 and now the mp4 issue is something new.
You must have made this video before the New Year, one of the sub-channels you mentioned was CIRCLE. Circle shut down all OTA channels on 12/31 and went streaming only. I will miss that channel.
Yes, I did make the video before the New Year. I'm aware that Circle shut down but it doesn't matter for this video as I used it as an example of channels that are lost if they move to a new broadcast signal that isn't picked up in the first place.
I see where it's on Peacock which I got under a deal. But it's kind of a pita keeping up with where certain channels are located.
I lost circle station but pick up two new ones grio and outlaw.
In my market most of the UHF band is already full the only one that’s left is RF26 and in the high-VHF band RF8 and 10 are left. And we’re getting 4 new stations on RF7, 9, 29, and 31 so there’s literally no more room left.
The second option happened to all of my TVs with the PIX substations, now is just audio. Also everything on 33 (Laff, MeTV, Comet) is harder to get in, before they had little issues, but now I struggle with them.
Also, had the Philips TV tuner die recently, but that was a separate problem.
4:23 I have a box just like the one from eBay. I love the fact that it lets you record programs to USB
Just Subscribed to your Channel!
From the Northwoods of Minnesota.
thank you for solveing my issuie with chanell 11 in nyc i abught a dvr and i get antenna and rewind no problem.
As I look to move to Florida near both the Tampa/Orlando market because of this reason for the ATSC 3.0 I strongly have Zapperbox on the list
When ATSC 3.0 was launched in the Flint/Saginaw/Bay City TV market, no channels were lost. Sinclair managed WBSF is the ATSC 3.0 host. The co-operated WEYI hosts CW affilate WBSF and its Charge! channel. Before the ATSC 3.0 launch, WEYI rebroadcast WBSF on channel 25.2 so that was changed to 46.3 so no channels were lost. On the the hand, the TV spectrum auction led to the loss of two Lansing, MI TV stations, making a full launch of ATSC 3.0 more difficult in that area. I understand that WKAR had used a separate experimental TV station to test out ATSC 3.0 in the past.
the set up for FEC/ QAM constellation and so on might been get managed well at there to obtain a robust signal
Displaced channels will not always be picked by other stations in an area.
The problem in the Sacramento, CA spectrum is that 2 of the major networks (ABC, PBS) are VHF and not UHF. KVIE Channel 6 (PBS) actually transmits on VHF channel 9 while KXTV (ABC) transmits on VHF channel 10.
I suggest the new TVs on sale, show ATSC 3.0 tuner in BIG letters on the box. The existing TVs don't even list a tuner installed.
I saw where some tv manufacturing are dropping the 3.0 tuners from their new tvs
I dont think i have to worry about this issue, here in Canada in a city of 100k, I only get 2 channels, one converted to ATSC 1.0 a few years ago, and the other is still broadcasting in VHF analog (in 2024!). All the networks are owned by cable companies so there is no incentive for them to upgrade antenna TV, only to maintain it to keep simultaneous substitution of their ads if a US network is airing the show at the same time.
Not enough frequency spectrum and total lack of planning. You nailed it perfectly. Heck, our ATSC 3.0 is on a lower power frequency where 3 other companies currently share it. And its resolution for those 4 channels is only 720 for each. My sister 35 mi. Away receives the stronger ATSC 1.0 signals much better, so what’s the point of this current ATSC 3.0 setup?? There are simply no available high power UHF channels available except one, and one of our ABC affiliates recently grabbed it to move from VHF. Where’s the future bandwidth for ATSC 3.0??? There is none in our area!
The plan is as stations convert to ATSC 3.0, their existing channels will be hosted by other stations. Once the FCC determines there are enough TVs with ATSC 3.0 tuners in use, then they will allow them to discontinue their ATSC 1.0 broadcasts. DRM and patent issues are really slowing down/reversing adoption of ATSC 3.0 though, so it won’t happen for the foreseeable future if ever unless the FCC takes action. It’s a shame because ATSC 3.0 can provide better reception, especially when in cities where multipath is an issue for ATSC 1.0.
I know with my old Panasonic TV I could only receive the audio for Oxygen Channel on KNBC 4.4. Now I know why. When it finally died I purchased a Sony TV so I could get those ATSC 3.0 broadcasts which broadcast in 1080P. Of course if you live in Los Angeles KCBS, KNBC, KTLA, KTTV, KCOP all use RF Channel 13 for their ATSC 3.0 signal so if you don't have a good VHF antenna then sometimes you get no signal. When that does happen it forces you to switch to the ATSC 1.0 signal which has lower picture quality.
@@jeffreykoerber6595 Yep, I’m 13 mi. From the transmitters in a city and with a lot of trees. I finally solved my multipath issues, which I didn’t fully understand by getting the cheapest possible antenna, basically one you hang on the wall without an amp and positioning it for the strongest available signal. The results are far superior to the high gain antennas I had tried to use outside for years. My theory is that the high gain antennas were ALSO picking up the multipath and other interfering signals, especially when the wind would blow, thus creating signal dropouts. My overall signal levels now ARE now lower than I had with the high gain antennas, but they are high enough, and when the wind blows, reception stays rock solid.
Thanks as always.
You are brilliant!!! I am in NY area and get everything. I have been perplexed that why did I lose antenna tv 11.2 and rewind tv 11.4 and only get audio of them. I rescan and rescan. Checked every website and even called wpix and begging them for an answer. They were zero help! Yes I still have an incredible crt Sony tv. The last 400 pound monster. Lol...but you gave me the 😂answer. Bless you! My problem with changing converters is I need a zoom cropped option to get rid of horrible postage stamp letterbox on all 4 sides of screen which my current old INSIGNIA converter does beautiful, so goodbye antenna tv and rewind tv. Least I have Catchy comedy and 😮metv+ and retro tv. But if you find an alternative to watch in new york yet in full-screen 4:3 please reply.
I wish they’d try AV1, would feel like a nice leap
Good to see you working hard.
Be careful climbing on the roofs this winter.
Got a joke for you.
What do you call a cow that doesn't give milk?
A milk dud or an utter failure.
I actually no longer do antenna installations locally. They were too much work, risk, and liability for little pay. I now work exclusively on my RUclips channel and antenna recommendation service.
thanks
In central Connecticut all the broadcasters (except PBS) got together and built a new full power antenna/tower/transmitting sight. All their 3.0 signals are on that one RF channel. The plan is to eventually move back to their existing towers when they can turn off their 1.0 signals.
This is called a temporary OTA (DRM ATSC 3.0 Lighthouse) transmitter antenna with 5 different TV Stations on the same antenna doing FCC Simulcast testing with no subchannels.
There is no USA Government money for free (DRM ATSC 3.0 Pay TV converter boxes) this time so the full DRM Pay 3.0 TV transition may never happen or take many years.
FCC is not forcing any 1.0 TV Stations to move over to 3.0 TV. So some TV stations will be on Free 1.0 TV and others will be on DRM Pay 3.0 TV.
the odd thing is that demands a internet connection to get the deciphering key , shouldn't be like that the system but was created of that way
@@megacap55 DRM on ATSC 3.0 NEXTGEN-TV is for future pay per view TV. Fascism is where Big TV Corporations and USA Government controls and watches everyone who uses OTA DRM ATSC 3.0 pay TV.
IMO. Do not buy OTA DRM ATSC 3.0 TV until DRM is removed by law.
It really wasn't a "new tower". As in most markets, one of the stations involved in the changeover moved to a subchannel of another station so its transmitter could become the "lighthouse" hosting most of the ATSC 3.0 stations. (In Hartford it was the CW affiliate moving to a Fox subchannel; in my market Little Rock, AR it was the MyNetworkTV affiliate that moved to Fox.) PBS is a little different in Hartford; Connecticut Public Television converted its Norwich station into the lighthouse for its Hartford flagship. (Arkansas PBS has not converted any of its stations.)
I have no interest in ATSC 3.0 as long as DRM is in question. My ATSC 1.0 Tablo DVR works just fine thank you.
I have a version 3 Tablo as well. If broadcasters change to use MPEG4 on their ATSC1.0 broadcasts, we will be out of luck as the v3 Tablos can't decode it. With the release of the version 4 Tablos, we can forget about ever getting ANY kind of updates to our v3 devices.
@@theElderberryFarmer To be clear don't waste your money updating to a 4th generation Tablo to resolve this problem. The 4th generation Tablo does not decode it either! I know I have both of them. Tablo has not responded to my request for an explanation! If you scroll through the comments to @billclinton7003 he reports the same and says Tablo hasn't responded to his complaint either.
@@theElderberryFarmerTrue, but by them time that happens I plan to be receiving everything streaming.
If stations start charging. There will be less tv's in homes.
I am in the Chicago area and will see how it affects my area when ATC 3.0 is live.
I have already told my dad to rescan for channels as they would move to a different physical channel number, although the TV would show the number he is used to.
I'm close to there as well.i have a cheap DVR off of eBay, I'll update if I'm unable to record.
As long as your father picks up full powered channels in Chicago fine (which will likely host some displaced 1.0 channels on the station that converts to 3.0) he should be fine. It's only if one channel is marginally picked up now as explained in the video. I'm hoping that MPEG-4 isn't used on more channels in the future as some devices can't decode it. After I posted this video, I read a comment that even the Zapperbox can't decode MPEG-4.
@@AntennaMan That is true, thanks to this and other videos I was able to understand that some channels are being hosted by someone else. His TV is around 3 years old so I suppose MPEG-4 would not be an issue as it is a sort of smart TV and can play media from USB sticks.
The problem is that he purchased an antenna that is very cheaply made... the one that met and came face to face with your hammer.
@@ziggylycans How is the picture quality of that DVR?
Tyler, to be fair to your audience you should have been clear that the 4th Generation Tablo (their latest!) does not decode these MPEG-4 channels either! It is definitely not because of my antenna. My 2005 Toshiba UL55L310U receives 11.1, 11.2 and 11.3 (NYC) and indicates a stronger signal on channel RF26 where 11.2 and 11.4 are located than my signal on RF7 where 11.1 is located. My antenna is a Televes DatBoss Mix LR 148381 and I am 40 mile east on Long Island.
I contacted Tablo and they told me the new 4th generation unit works with MPEG-4
@@AntennaMan I don't doubt that they told you that however I've heard others make the same complaint infact you have another commenter here saying the same as me. If there is any information I can provide or test I can do for you let me know. My television and both Tablos 3rd and 4th Gen are sharing the same antenna to reach this conclusion. I moved my preamp output directly from both generations to the television so all have used the same inputs for these results. I'll ask Tablo again to see if they want to respond. Thanks for following up and for your videos.
I have the Tablo 4th Gen. it doesn’t work with mpeg 4. NYC 11.2 and 11.4 aren’t even available in the guide.
As an update after a few emails with Tablo I received A request to put my 4th gen into remote access mode. Two days later with no follow up email from Tablo I did another scan and low and behold both 11.2 and 11.4 have appeared on my channel list. To be clear throughout several days of scans RF 26 where these channels are located came in strong with good quality, this was not a antenna concern. These channels still do not appear on my 3rd gen Tablo, I'll accept that since after all it is the older unit. If anyone else has these concerns with a 4th generation Tablo I would recommend contacting them and insisting that they correct it. Let's see if they include this correction across the board for all 4th generation owners.
This is all magically happening when everyone is cutting cable.
What a coincidence 😁
Good information
The second reason (MPEG-4) makes perfect sense here in Houston. When I got my Tablo HD system (I believe mine is also third generation), I was picking up around 110 channels. Now, I receive around 72 on a good day. I was wondering what happened to the channels, so it makes sense those "lost" channels converted from MPEG-2 to MPEG-4.
110? That's better than cable!
no the video codec haven't nothing to do, in fact ATSC 1 is mandatory the use of MPEG2 and the fixed channel bitrate of 19,39Mbps in ATSC 3.0 IS MANDATORY the use of HEVC as codec, but the usage of either codec doesn't matter to the fixed coverage, a separate case is ATSC 3.0 which the coverage and even the amount of withstand of errors is all about the TV programmer set up of their signal and values of forward error correction between other parameters
@@megacap55 Actually, the video codec does have something to do with it. ATSC 1 spec was updated after deployment to include 1080p video at 60 fps, which is only accomplished using H.264/AVC High Profile Level 4.2 standard. This was done in July 2008, almost a year before digital transition occurred. It's a topic that's being discussed in the TabloTV forums, as some users are experiencing this issue. One user reported that a few stations in her area are picked up just fine with her Insignia television but not with her TabloTV device.
It looks like broadcasters are beginning to use H.264 standard (MPEG-4) in order to fit more stations into their subchannel system. The issue is that devices like TabloTV do not support H.264/MPEG-4 and only support the MPEG-2 standard. Even Version 4 of the TabloTV devices have this issue.
A dual ATSC 1.0/3.0 system shouldn't be affected by this, as I would think that H.264 would be included as the device also has to support HVEC standard, but I could be wrong about that.
The MPEG-4 compression of WPIX 11.2 and 11.4 is a bane to me. My old Vizio VO42L and my FireTV Recast cannot receive MPEG-4. Only audio. I happen to have a spare 13 year old Samsung that does receive it but I am not adding yet another TV to my wall just for those channels.
Technically, your old TVs are receiving the MPEG-4 video on those channels, the issue is that they are unable to decode it.
And here we are waiting for the "inexpensive" ATSC 3.0 tuners Future CES show dates:
Jan. 9-12, 2024 (Tuesday-Friday)
Jan. 7-10, 2025 (Tuesday-Friday)
Jan. 6-9, 2026 (Tuesday-Friday)
Thank you for the update.
Thanks for sharing the knowledge..if the FCC is allowing this change , & it really ISN'T to force people back to cable, then the FCC should provide coupons to OTA viewers to get free mpeg4 boxes, just like they did back in 2009 when they forced DTV on everyone with analog TVs
I agree with your statement about the FCC selling off too much spectrum to cell phone companies. In an ATSC v1.0 market, I have been able to decrease the pixelation and break-up of channels by installing a Philips LTE filter in the off-air antenna configuration. You might want to provide the channel with a video on interference from cell towers and how to filter out LTE signals from 4G and 5G cell phone deployments in an area. I'm curious now to try these filters in a market with ATSC v3.0 support, like Kansas City. That won't solve the problem with the MPEG4 CODEC or even more advanced video CODEC. And, I still prefer CODEC for the acronym.
I already made two videos on 5G filters.
what package uses the MPEG 4 used at there?
I've tried these filters and noticed some improvements, but was still frustrated by constant signal dropouts for stations only 13mi away. Especially with a breeze. My outside antenna also picks up a very low power station, coming from the SAME tower as the high power stations. One day I noticed this low power station wasn't affected by dropouts and pixelation at all! Nor was a station I pick up 70mi away.
I came to realize my problem with dropouts was that my outside antennas was ALSO picking up MORE multipath signals occurring only with the high power stations. I switched out my high gain antenna for a little panel, which I taped on the wall in my home. It picks up much LESS signal than I had with my high gain antenna, but I now have solid reception with no dropouts. You might experiment with this yourself and see what you find since you appear to be in or near a major city.
We sort of have the reverse here in the Greenville/Spartanburg/Anderson SC/Asheville NC market. The lighthouse station for 3.0 (WMYA) is licensed to Anderson SC and only reaches Upstate SC. But has no coverage in Western NC or Northeast GA. (also part of this market) WMYA's channels were moved to the NBC, CBS & Fox stations in the market making them available to whole market for the first time. However at the present time Western NC & Northeast GA can't receive a 3.0 signal. And they haven't announced how they plan on dealing with that problem.
I had no idea stations were finally using ATSC 2.0! Wow.
We actually skipped ATSC 2.0 and are launching ATSC 3.0. See video below: ruclips.net/video/FUrGSPRJ8Kc/видео.html
@@AntennaMan The MPEG4 codec was not part of ATSC 1.0. It was introduced with ATSC 2.0 back in 2015. See the standard below:
prdatsc.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/A107-2015.pdf
@@AntennaMan If you go down to "Section 4. System Overview" of the A/107 ATSC 2.0 Standard there's a section called "Advanced Video and Audio Codecs". Here it says, "Advanced codecs currently supported for ATSC 2.0 are AVC for video..." AVC is the MPEG4 codec that ATSC 2.0 introduced and broadcasters you mentioned are now using. That's exactly why our ATSC 1.0 receivers cannot display this video.
the difference between both are almost only codec,QAM highest constellation, the forward error correction and other kind of error correction used which have to be set up by the broadcaster, a bad broadcaster will want to use a highest QAM constellation and
with this making the signal weak not robust and a conscious broadcaster will use an lower QAM constellation sacrificing the payload but the signal would be robust enough for withstand any weather or human made electrical noises
@@scottlarson1548not necessary since can "travel" the video audio over a encapsulation ( is like the pill thing inside the pill might be anything) for put it simple and the inner video be H265 or H264 also travel the error correction parameters in a discrete portion of MPEG frame.
We cut the cord about 6 months ago and have been using a couple of streaming services. We are retired and but we miss our local channels at times. We will be asking for an outdoor antenna recommendation this spring but for now we tried an indoor antenna. The problem, our tv does not have a coax cable connecter. We did find a coax cable to ldmi adapter but it cost $70.00 dollars, high for us but gave it a try. At home we realized the coax end was not screw on but had there slot type that you push on and twist. We returned the adapter but cannot find a simple adapter like mention above and hope it does not cost a lot money. Can you lead us in the right direction to find one? We like you RUclips channel and watch it all the time and keep up the good work. have a blessed New Year.
THANKS A-M, ...
COOP
...
Why is the Homeworx device not allowed to be sold in some areas?
Some communist state regulation that makes no sense. It's directed towards products that can cause harmful interference which a cheap converter box can't really do. I believe Illinois, California, and New York are some of them.
@@AntennaMan you are correct...i moved from the Vampire State of NY to Florida recently. My cousin left the People's Socialist Republic of Kalifornia 2 yrs ago for Colorado. 💯👍
@@AntennaMan What communist state regulations do make sense? Should Dictator Trump get rid of the FCC on day one?
really excited and nervous for the ATSC 3 rollout for Chicago (my area). seems to be happening on Jan 22nd and our ATSC3 host is WBBM....hopefully it isn't a DRM nightmare.
Cbs and nbc are o&o so drm is likely on those 2.
I'm just curious if you know this.... as you mention the Mediasonic HW-150PVR-Y22, which you covered in a video a year ago, by any chance do you know if they've fixed that bug where, you have schedules and if you need to do a fresh channel scan, it wipes out the schedules?
Also, if you don't do a full channel scan, but only do an "Add" does the sched also get wiped out?
I'd hope that they'd fix that silly bug.
Also, do you know, by any chance, if they've added the recording feature of, instead of having to choose, daily, weekly, etc, where you can highlight the show you want to set up a repeating schedule and choose "name matches" or "with this name" (something like that)?
This is so a show will be recorded if it's found in the EPG no matter what channel, day or time.
I'm kind of spoiled with that option on our ChannelMaster recorders. LOL
Thanks in advance.
If you manually scan a specific channel, your recording schedule is not wiped out.
@@JohnLight1 Thanks. At least that's something.
I wish that they have this exact box, but with 2 tuners. I know that they do have some older ones with dual tuners, but those are glitchy, unless something has changed.
I don't want the ones where you have to pay a monthly fee for the tv guide.
Right now, our 3 boxes, all Channel Master, grab EPG from the channel signals and build a table of shows. Sadly, the build can only grab a few hours to maybe 1 day (on some channels). But that works out to be just fine.
The other thing, however, is this Mediasonic box, I don't think, has the ability to let you land on a show in the guide, then select to record it, ongoing, by NAME. I'm only seeing by once, daily, weekly and by channel/time.
Sometimes shows change time slots, so then the recording is for that date/time, which could be some other show.
I'm actually surprised that they didn't code the firmware to allow record by name. Then, it would be able to record a show, by its name, no matter what time, day or channel it's on.
Oh well... .it's not expensive, so I guess one can't expect 'higher-end" features.
Some of the money from the FCC TV spectrum sell off to cellphone companies went to pay for free (ATSC 1.0 DTV converter boxes).
There is no USA Government money for free (DRM ATSC 3.0 Pay TV converter boxes) this time so the full transition may never happen or take many years.
FCC is not forcing any 1.0 TV Stations to move over to 3.0 TV. So some TV stations will be on Free 1.0 TV and others will be on DRM Pay 3.0 TV.
The FCC is only allowing OTA Simulcasts DRM 3.0 at this time for testing purposes
OTA ATSC 3.0 TV currently has no 4K and you only get the main Simulcasted 1.0 channel and no sub channels.
Not enough bandwidth.
Tyler, can you make a video on why the circle channel is not available for markets via Ota antennas and possibly cable or satellite TV providers ?
I re-scanned during the window I was getting Wichita tv, 110 miles SE of me. Stadium is now Nest like you warned. I noticed Circle is now Outlaw tv. Fun times. I am in Larned KS zip 67550
An affiliate around here dropped Stadium, and now it's TheNest. Still 1.0.
Channel 6 ABC in Philly...unless you are like 10 miles from the transmitter, is totally unwatchable. I am 9 miles from the Walt Whitman Bridge and zippo!
We only have four atsc 3.0 channels here in San Antonio.
Yeah, satellite TV switched from MPEG-2 to 4 already several/many years ago.
I have the Tablo 4th Gen. 11.2 and 11.4 (NYC) don’t even show up in the program guide. Main WPIX 11.1 works fine. Contacted Tablo , so far there’s no solution.
Yes, I asked for an answer from Tablo as well, I got no reply either.
Here in South Florida, I lost channel 10 and channel 7 after their conversion. One gives you the other channel's programming, but I can't see any. I don't have that problem with the others. Those 2 broadcast in 720p
Thanks for the video!
What is Mpeg 4, is it the H.264 codec? Because the h.264 is old video codec too (2003).
yes MPEG is HD that automatically using H.264 encoder .
however , all 4K channels use HEVC=H.265 , there's a very few rare channels in the world using H.265 and broadcasting HD content in the same time.
*MPEG4
ATSC 3 "launching" for how many years now?
Chicago already has a little ATSC3 & MPEG4.
I hate to say it but cell phones are more important then antenna TV now days. But we need both!
I’ve noticed this with WCCT. I get 20-2 and 20-3 but not 20-1
This just happened to me in San Diego this week. Rabbit ears will no longer pick up the local FOX station.
I can't believe you haven't ditched MPG2 yet. H.264 decoder should have been mandatory in evey new tv set sold at least 10 years ago.
Many TV made ten years ago worked with MPEG-4 (think name brands like Samsung) but since there was no mandate, some budget TV manufacturers didn't include the capability. I agree it would have been nice if the FCC mandated that new TVs decode MPEG-4 years ago if it permitted for ATSC 1.0 broadcasting.
We have a roof mounted antenna and a brand ASTC 3.0 tuner in a LG tv. Two of my channels on Nextgen tv require me to buy an antenna booster to see them.
be careful with the booster, the signal that ATSC 3.0 is different than ATSC 1.0 the problem you might have is over power your channels and end up worse as the beginning, we have to recall that ATSC 3 use COFDM as signal , and ATSC 1 8vsb the behavior of the both signals to being amplified are different since 3.0 the signal robustness is set up by the broadcaster not having any interaction the device you have, I know that because I live in a country where is used COFDM and when one time tried to amplify the signal was worse you might try to get a higher gain antenna first before invest to the amplifier also worth to check your antenna set up and connections one lose connection might cause channel loses and in COFDM works only lock up the channel number in the search but even try to tune it get a no signal.
I don't have a converter box yet my TV is working fine so far it will last me 5 more years before I get another roku TV later
Speaking of next Gen gt Media has a next Gen USB TV stick that plugs into a phone or laptop or android box do you think you will test this out
my TV is getting old, my antennae is getting old. I'm getting old!!!
Is there some reason other than the cost of another transmitter for not using those abandoned VHF-L channels 2-6 for the temporary ATSC3 broadcasting?
although folks may loose channels tv markets and the number of channels vary i get 42 channels near st,louis but out west and other citys the number of channels is double that .but channels shifting and programming changes is something OTA users have delt with their whole lives ...until they find a way to keep tv to the bare minimum in this country then we take what we can find ..furthermore when 3.0 becomes the only standard the 1.0 singnals dissapear and the 3.0 stuff will work better ..the sky isnt falling yet ..lol...
Channel 3.4 in Sacramento works with my LG TV.
will you buy the channel master next gen tuner would be interesting to see
We don't have it yet I can't afford a new next-gen converter box or antenna hope my coat hanger antenna will work
Cable looking better every day
I didnt realize ATSC 1.0 could be encoded as Mpeg-4
I guess the FCC permits it considering "most" TVs and DVRs can decode it, but some can't.