Stop Asking For ATSC 3.0/NextGen TV - Here’s Why
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- Опубликовано: 31 июл 2024
- ATSC 3.0 or NextGen TV is the new over the air TV standard launching in the United States. While it has some benefits, they come with some major tradeoffs. This video is to request that people stop asking for ATSC 3.0 for a variety of reasons many people are not aware of, including the impact on price, DVRs, and the future of free over the air TV.
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So far 3.0 is a pipe dream. If it's encrypted it's useless because money is involved in watching the program.
Voluntary program to increase quality of audio and video feeds? Big companies: naw we cant have that unless we layer on the protection and make it so inconvenient and bothersome to implement
@@eminence_front6043 I understand what you mean, I’d state it differently though. ATSC 3.0 is a significant technological improvement over ATSC 1.0. It works well and improves the quality of reception and resolution. The problem is that it’s a Trojan horse. The broadcasters are using it to change the broadcast model with auxiliary features like DRM and DVR broadcast control for greedy reasons. Without that this technology could have already replaced ATSC 1.0 and brought great benefits to consumers and broadcasters alike.
they did something like this back around the early 80's but it didnt get far and failed. one company would try and fail then another one would come and fail and then it went away.
huh. I'm not paying any money to watch ATSC 3.0 stations here in Atlanta.
I am 50 miles east of St Louis in Illinois I pick up 7 3.0 station
I am personally not interested in ATSC 3.0 as long as DRM is in the picture (pun intended haha)
And logo bugs. They already made the move to HD pointless, why do we need to see them in 4k?
Same. If this is just going to make watching the same channels harder then I don't want it.
@@TheMediaHoarder TV reviewers like Digital Trends
ATSC 3.0 was DOA as soon as it was DRM'd.
Yeah, people aren't interested.
yeah it was the companies that pretty much mothballed atsc3 when they agreed on the condition of drm, now they can lock down it and cause all kinds of headaches in order to protect their feeds making is a nuisance for everyone to adopt.
New ZapperBox owner here. Just a couple weeks. Living 60 to 70 miles from our nearest TV towers (I live in the Mountains of NorCal), and pointed with a good large modern roof antenna towards Sacramento, the ATSC 1 comes in fine on most channels but a couple come and go as they see fit. One day a good signal goes sour the next. With the new ATSC 3.0 channels (x5) that serves Sacramento, so far, when my ATSC 1 channel goes south, my ATSC 3 keeps going and works. So far it seems that extra "ooomph" from the ATSC 3.0 signal is helping this more off grid guy get some TV still. I am happy so far.
The Zapperbox is definitely a great unit. The better reception aspect of ATSC 3.0 is beneficial for some fringe locations but for most people, they don't need it.
@@AntennaMan yeh, so far so good with ours. I was considering the Tablo and may still get one for the 2nd TV in the house and it serve ATSC 1.0 to my main TV too but the signal just not good for our fringe area for sure.
I did not get better reception with ATSC 3.0 in rural Florida.
in my case i dont have atsc 3.0 just the normal 1.0. some stuff i barely get where i am are buzzer the local fox network and even the local pbs or public broadcasting channel and me tv. i live in an apartment on the bottom and its hard to get some stuff so yea
When I first started investigating getting rid of cable I noticed this ATSC 1 and ATSC 3 dichotomy, and could tell the newer platform was going nowhere anytime soon. The information on your site only confirmed my suspicion. That made it easy to determine that I didn't need a new TV and my current ATSC 1 with SMART web connection capability would be more than adequate for my needs.
This is why I've Held-Off on Buying an HDHome Run, I wasn't sure if it would be done with after 6 months
Thanks for the Clarification Brotha!!
There's a chance that the HDHomerun might never be certified to decode DRM encrypted channels due to the nature of it being a network gateway. If it gets certified, it will only work with certain devices. For now, ATSC 1.0 should be around for at least another ten years so feel free to buy an HDHomerun if you like how it works. Don't hold off for the anti-consumer TV standard that is ATSC 3.0. Hopefully the whole thing flops.
@@AntennaMan DUD3!
Speaking My Language!!
Thank You!
@@MotownBatman HDHomerun is a joke, always leading people on that they might one day be fully compliant and everything. They pushed out a product and now left leading people on that the product might one day be what was promised back when they had their kickstarter.
@AntennaMan ;
Yeah ...
Was hoping for a cheap way to supply ATSC 3.0 to TVs and other streaming devices throughout the house with the SD homerun option.
But as you say, it appears now that SD will never be able to make their gateway product compatible with DRM unfortunately.
@@AntennaMan great comment Tyler. Thank you for your educational and advocacy around this.
Thank you Antenna Man. I always learn a lot from you
I have a Sony Bravia XR TV that has a ATSC 3.0 tuner, but that wasn't the reason for buying the set. My purchase was based on other features of the TV. I have no issues with receiving my major local TV stations via ATSC 1.0. As you correctly stated, ATSC 3.0 is in the early phases. My opinion is that the broadcasters are making things difficult for consumers for ATSC 3.0, so that consumers will give up and keep subscribing to overpriced satellite or cable TV. Keep doing the great job you are doing to get people to understand you don't have to pay for local channels. A lot of people were born before antenna OTA was a "thing."
I think most 3.0 tuners were purchased for features other than NextGen TV. I'm glad you weren't sucked into the hype marketing and purchased your TV for other great features. Hopefully it lasts a long time for you.
That had to be before TVs were a "thing" then. OTA TV used to be the only way to get TV. But that was before cable TV.
A son-in-law from Toronto came to visit us last year in Montreal. He saw my kitchen 32-inch Samsung 1080P HD TV connected to my rooftop Channel Master CM-4228HD antenna and thought that the picture was 4K. My Sony 43-inch X85K HDR 4K Smart LED TV upscales all ATSC 1.0 signals to 4K. Picture quality is very good even with the SD channels using free over-the-air TV. So far, we're getting 38 channels thanks to the American channels and sub-channels being broadcasted from Mount Mansfield in Vermont and Lyon Mountain in New York (PBS). Yes, PBS here transmits very powerful UHF signals from Vermont and New York, I guess I'm lucky.
Yes, the picture quality on ATSC 1.0 looks great! Very few people can tell the difference between 720p/1080i and upscaled 1080p on ATSC 3.0.
@@AntennaMan I'm also in Canada, close to Toronto and get all the stations out of Buffalo NY 24/7, except for 1 Indedpendant. Also using a CM4228
@@AntennaMan I'm not expecting ATSC 3.0 in Canada anytime soon, we don't even have sub-channels yet and we converted to Digital HD on September 1st, 2011. The big problem here is ownership. Big Pay TV - Internet companies like Bell Media, control everything even the so-called free OTA TV Networks and TV stations which includes radio. So, they are not about to tell people that they can watch TV for free with an antenna even though it would benefit millions of low-income people.
My understanding is unlike the FCC in the US, doesn't treat subchannel as separate stations, whereas the CRTC in Canada does treat subchannels as separate stations, requiring separate TV licenses. So TV stations will be limited there. I heard the CRTC hasn't fixed the VHF power issue, as their power levels are much lower than in the US.
@@Robert-sl7jonot entirely true. Ckws 11 in kingston has a sub-channel. It's the channel 2 global that used to be up near Denbeigh. Global shut that one down and asked to be a sub channel on CKWS. A similar thing in Peterborough as well. So here's hoping we see some more sub channels. I truly doubt it though since everything is owned by Shaw, bell or rogers. And they don't want to compete with their cable / satellite offerings.
Thank you so much for clearing that up.
Thank you very much for this Tyler! I see all this ATSC 3 stuff going on just as I have my ATSC 1.0 working perfectly. Had me worried. But you cleared it right up!
Thank you. Sticking with ATSC 1.0
Thanks as always for your excellent information, between you and Lon TV we're all in great hands.
Here in Chile, they instead adopted the Brazilian DTV standard ISDB-Tb, based on the Japanese ISDB-T standard. According to tests, it provides better reception than ATSC and DVB-T (and possibly DTMB), and was adopted due to the country's geographical situation (mainly the large presence of hills and mountains). Although like the US, Chile used NTSC for analog (odd, given that the country has 50hz as its mains frequency), prior to shutting down their analog transmissions in March-April 2024. Ironically, Chile introduced DTV in November 2009, 5 months after the DTV transition in the US (simiarly, color TV was introduced in the US in 1953, four years before Chile introduced television, and over two decades later, color TV was introduced in Chile in 1978).
TYLER FINALLY got a good-looking haircut. 💇♂
It took a few years. I thought I found a good barber last year then he gave me a bad haircut in February -__- the new one seems pretty good.
I purchased a Tablo 4th Gen in November figuring it would be good for a while, especially considering the price. I've been happy with it, and it's good to hear it should be usable well into the future.
Don’t forget the numerous over the air television channel launches that continue to occur. The last two weeks alone have seen the launch of MeTV Toons, Ion Plus, a relaunch of Defy, and even the addition of a streaming channel to OTA- Nosey (for what it’s worth).
Why would broadcasters and TV stations continue to invest in OTA in this way if ATSC 1 was going to become obsolete anytime soon?
Ion Plus never went away. It stopped being over the air, the minute Scripps bought out Ion Media. Ion Plus went to streaming only, and Scripps tried out Defy TV and TruReal, only to shut down both networks. The Defy TV network that's on now, is owned by a different company, and was originally scheduled to be the Dare Network. So after Scripps shutdown their Defy TV network, that they decided to bring Ion Plus back to OTA TV. Not sure if Scripps is making Ion Plus available to other TV stations not owned by them. Under Ion Media, Ion Plus replaced Ion Life, and they would not make Ion Plus to other stations outside of their own. In my opinion, Ion Plus is not needed.
@@davenwin1973 Thank you for that info! I wondered why my Defy shows were missing & that terrible Ion Plus was there instead! I liked American Pickers on Wednesdays & other shows also. Oh well. Nothing good ever lasts... Sigh.
@@jfoster1304 Defy has not yet re-launched everywhere. It is also being carried on mostly low-power TV stations unfortunately. But it may pop up in your area soon. An outdoor antenna would be best for receiving it.
Those channels are horribly compressed and in 480i resolution, which should be a thing of the past by now.
@@TheMediaHoarder Yes- however so much TV spectrum has been sold off to cell phone companies, squeezing the bandwidth available for over the air TV. The only way to fit 10 channels on a carrier is to compress them.
Better video codecs are available that allow more compression without sacrificing picture quality, but broadcasters are not going to spend the money to switch to them. But it’s much more complicated than that even.
Good information
Thanks for the video. Ya, my reception in Sandstone, MN is bad sometimes. I haven't done anything yet. I have a pretty good antenna that was given to me by a neighbor who moved. But it has a long single wire cable attached. A friend and I put it up using a side of the house attached unit. We turned it to the Duluth stations.
Thanks!
Thanks Tyler.
I think it is important to remember that ATSC 1.0 standards were adopted in 1996 and analog broadcast did not switch over (for high power stations) until 2009, and the last analog was shutdown in the 2020's. It was not until 2018 that the FCC allowed stations to voluntarily broadcast on 3.0 with the rule of also having a 1.0 station. If ATSC 3.0 transitions at the speed of 1.0, it would be 2031 before the switch. Also 1.0 required a government mandate to get the transition to occur. With all the anti consumer parts of ATSC 3.0 I think it is more likely to simply change the codec for Mpeg 2 to Mpeg 4 or Mpeg H for ATSC 1.0.
Great points!
@@beard78748 av1 over atsc1 is my dream though it seems unlikely. Every modern TV can do HEVC though so that's probably the path forward..
Mpeg h would be great, atsc 3.0 should be using it and 1.0 could. The problem is tv sets likely don't support mpeg h.
With ATSC 1, the major issues were changing production and distribution infrastructure to digital, clustering formerly scattered transmitter sites in many markets, and waiting for costs of consumer side hardware to drop. Changing out transmitters was simple by comparison. Most of that is already in place and only needs minor upgrades, for ATSC 3.
ATSC 1 standards were developed largely in the 1980's, and mandated by Congress in 1995, with a 10 year cutover transition from 1996 to 2006 (before extensions, where idiot consumers claimed Congress suddenly foisted it on them).
@@lokiva8540
There was a tangled history with atsc 1.0, a relative was the engineering manager of the group that was designated to come up with hdtv standards. The FCC mandated that it has to be on the NTSC 6mhz bandwidth, which knocked out the Japanese and Dutch systems that used satellite ( analog). The initial systems they started testing were hybrid analog/digital, but then a couple of groups came in with pure digital systems ( if I remember correctly, it came from the cable tv side of the street). In the end the biggest wrangling was over the modulation, they went to vsc8 bc the alternative system, that was superior, was owned by zenith and would have cost $$$. The standard thru used was developed by if I recall correctly bell labs in the 50s and was free. There were all kinds of battles, one of the big ones on the broadcasters were trying to minimize costs, especially sinclair,so that was a factor.
As for why it took so long one of the big reasons was display technology. At the testing site they had a custom monitor Sony built that was a 40" rectangular display that went weighed 300 lbs ( crt). Basically affordable flat panel screens of a size large enough to make HDTV worthwhile didnt exist until years later( I remember a plasma screen at a Bose store,22", was like 20k at the time.
Plus they had to iron out the bugs and build working technology. The big broadcasters all had tech teams working in labs to improve it.
I don't think there is a lot driving atsc 3.0 the way there was digital HDTV. I doubt the broadcasters are all that eager, and pipe dreams like 4k are way in the future. About the only driving force may be in shutting down atsc 1.0 it would free up spectrum that could be sold off to cell phone companies, but that is way in the future. Mpeg 4 and the European modulation system they are using on atsc 3.0 is much better than 1.0, but not enough to cause a groundswell of use either.
Glad to hear the old standard is staying. After following your advice I get a bunch of channels all crystal clear and don't see how anything could be better. I really don't understand what the benefit is to change.
@@tonybaggett1984 technical benefits have huge upsides but the DRM issue is holding it back. Better signal quality and range benefits everyone, but not if it means locking down public airwaves
I wish figuring out how to use 11.1 Immersive Audio was the big challenge of ATSC 3, and the bandwidth and sub-optimal antenna improvements of ORFDM with 25 vs 19 Mbps, and compatibility with denser CODEC's not possible yet when ATSC 1 was developed in the 1980's, were simply major updates that came along for the ride.
Immersive audio is sort of a revolutionary change, as it encodes audio "objects" to allow users to then select how they're handled, for different acoustic spaces and playback systems, as well as for special needs like elderly who may hear dialog better without background noise or SFX most audiences would appreciate, or to deal with cars or kitchens and other environments. That also changes the needs of professionals recording or mixing sound, as stereo and 5.1 are no longer presumptive targets for static mixes. IOW, that alone is a Chinese curse of important benefits, but ones that upend the fundamental reality of past systems and how they're philosophically viewed and managed.
Big surprise, corporate Amerika and beyond play off corrupt Congress, while anti-trust is meaningless as fewer than 10 mega-corps comingle streaming, cell, cable, program production, local station ownership, and network programs and distribution. Far less duopoloy, even of print and radio and TV, used to be illegal and grounds to revoke broadcast licenses, or in rare cases for Dept of Justice to actually prosecute anti-Trust such as in Rochester, NY.
Now we have idiotic fraud based spectrum auctions without regard to TV transition simulcast timelines or economics that aren't real but give Congress excuses to pander to big donors. And, all that is trivial, compared to how AIPAC extortion or human rights and war crimes and genocide lobbies manipulate politics, and use media as part of the propaganda and fake news distortions to manipulate voters.
These broadcast issues with dirty politics, are only a small tip of a big iceburg of messy public policy issues and dirty underlying process. How long ago did SCOTUS turn into a rubber stamp of partisan politics too, and not a last resort process to ensure "justice", whatever corporate mercenary meaning that now has?
I'd suggest it's important to look at the root causes and foundational issues, and not just the superficial trappings or symptoms. There's a lot there which is badly broken if not maliciously tampered, from big power systems difficult to change.
For what it is worth, I have an HDHomeRun with ATSC 3 and use MythTV for media management. MythTV does NOT record ATSC 3 at all, so I have an instance of Jellyfin running. Yet the Dolby AC4 audio is tightly controlled licensing and even the three unencrypted channels available play without audio on most media players unless I process it through a docker container that transcodes those channels from H.265/AC4 to H.265/AC3. Yes it's legal because it uses the FFMPEG version distributed by Emby under the GPL.
So it's a kluge to record ATSC 3.
ATSC 1 (H.262/AC3 with 480i30, 720p60 or 1080i30) is a higher bit rate and lower quality, but it works. I also have scripted FFMPEG transcoding to convert any ATSC 1 recordings I want to save to 720p30 H.265 .mkv files for 480i30 recordings or 1080p60 10-bit color .mkv files for HD content. It looks almost as good as ATSC 3.
Bottom line: I can live with ATSC 1 going forward. Hopefully the four ATSC 3 DRM channels do not shut down their ATSC 1 content, but if they do, they just lost a viewer.
Great editorial. We have always been an OTA family as we are in a fairly rural area about 40-ish miles from most of the UHF stations here in terrain challenged NH. As such I was excited about the improved RF transmission characteristics of ATSC 3.0. However seeing the broadcast industry going full bore to embrace DRM has soured me on the technology.
Rather then being an early adopter anxious to play with the technology I've adopted a wait and see approach and may never upgrade to ATSC 3.0.
I live in a apt in Tulsa,OK and using a old tivo with my indoor antenna . with no problems .I get all of my channels and record all of my shows.
Thanks Tyler
For me, ATSC 3.0 is a life saver. My reception of Boston stations with ATSC 1.0 is poor due to trees and wind. I finally purchased the Zinwell 600B set top box after much research and am very happy with it. The Zinwell is sensitive and works fine with Boston DRM stations. Even my ATSC reception has improved despite the fact that the ATSC 3.0 stations are 50 degrees from the ATSC 1.0 stations. I am using a Winegard PR-8800 with 8 dipoles. I have modified the antenna by firmly fastening each dipole element with stainless steel hardware. The original dipole connections were unreliable.
For VHF Hi I use a Stellar Labs 30-2425 and couple the UHF/VHF with a diplexer. My lead-in is under 40 feet so I do not use a preamp. Since I get WGBH PBS in ATSC 3.0, I took down my specially built channel 5 antenna that I needed to get WGBH PBS in ATSC 1.0. I have been angry at WGBH ever since they went from channel 19 to channel 5. It was a pain to modify a Stellar Labs FM antenna to use on channel 5!
I watch your videos with interest. Keep them coming.! I am a Patron member to support you.
I'd like to see more of what the gentleman in Eugene, Or, is doing. Not another video Tyler ;), but others replicating it. He's shown 3.0 really isn't needed imho. Just another control mechanism. I would honestly try my hand at it but I do not have that particular skillset. Talented guy. Thanks Tyler!
I did buy the zapper box about a month ago. I was really curious about it and you were speaking so highly of it. I will honestly say the zapper box has an easy and I mean real easy user interface for the DVR function. I still have my cheap $30 thing from media works home usa. And I still have a tableau which I like which has some old content on it. But you know what this zapper box works slick! I put a 2 TB hard drive on it and it really works.
The Zapperbox is definitely a great unit. I planned on mentioning it in this video but forgot.
People don't know what's going on. I think they might start charging like cable because rebroadcast fees are disappearing for them.
Thanks
I’m happy that Canada isn’t pushing for atsc 3.0 cause that would just cause even more issues and since most of Canada has 1.0 they seem to have less issues, also since I now live in a country with DVB-T , to be honest I like it even better then atsc cause on one tower it support up to 6 channels in full 1080
ATSC 1.0 actually can, as well, even multiple 4K streams. There's an independent guy out west who has built such a station, partly just as a thumb in the eye to the networks who refuse to.
I _specifically_ purchased my HD HomeRun model BECAUSE it WASN'T ATSC 3.0. Encryption is a non-starter for me unless the certs last pretty much forever - along with the lack of streaming device support that (IMO) was the last nail...
No atsc 3.0 stations near me so I'm not making the jump. Atsc 1.0 was a very last minute install in my area so I figure 3.0 will be last minute in my area as well.
I finally cut the cord with FUBO, but now dealing with marginal OTA reception from the major market local towers (blocked by hill) even though the towers are only 23 miles away. The NextGen tower is 20 miles away, is taller, and minimal hills in the way. I'm going to give it a try and will post my results. The good news is that all the local major affiliates broadcast from this tower.
DRM used to be also Digital Radio
Mondial, I had a program for it on
Shortwave radio over 15 years ago,
and I received programming. But
that has disappeared here as Short
wave has too. 😊
We've been using the 1st gen Tablo since 2015. I was hoping to see ATSC 3.0 become something real... But given what you and other reviewers have indicated, I'm not holding my breath for ATSC 3.0. We did, however, just receive our 4th gen Tablo today and I'll be setting that up in the next few days. We have some reception issues (even with a top rated roof antenna) because we're just happen to fall in a poor spot geographically while everyone else 1/4 mile away just uses old wire hangers and aluminum foil to get every channel in the area. I'm hoping the new Tablo tuner will be able to pick up everything a little better.
The major pitfalls for ATSC 3.0 are myriad. I'm right in the middle of Downtown Reno, and the ATSC 3.0 tower is closer to me than any of the other ATSC 1.0 towers. Sadly, in my apartment, I can't seem to pull that signal in with any degree of reliability. My current setup gets over 90% signal strength, but bounces randomly between 10% and 60% signal quality. That doesn't really matter for me since the only ATSC 3.0 tuner that I have is on my LG TV which aren't well known for having the best tuners. However, I have been looking for an upgrade for my Hauppauge WinTV-QuadHD that does a better job of pulling in weak signals for my Plex Media Server, and whatever I get is probably going to pull in ATSC 3.0 as well. Plus, since my local providers are only doing 1080p over ATSC 3.0, it'd be nice to be able to watch some of that stuff in full quality on my 4K tv, the interlacing artefacts drive me nuts sometimes.
The things that got me interested in ATSC 3.0 is the Audio & Video quality and better signal reception
I'm still interested in ATSC 3.0 for these reasons but am a bit concerned it's been tainted with DRM. I don't trust multi-billion dollar corporations to do the right thing. People literally die trusting them to do the right thing.
@@AntennaMan The only way to make those station owners learn is by starving them of their income which means the people will have to stop telling Cable and Satellite companies to add the channel back to the lineup
Good update, thanks. I guess I'll save my money - for a while longer, anyway.
Yeah, the first reports of 3.0 really had me excited, but now, I am not as excited with all the DRM blocking even basic access to a base channel for 3.0 unless manufacturers pony up a ransom.
In the meantime, MeTV Toons finally debuted this week OTA in the Twin Cities market and it really delivered on what they promised it would be.
Thank you. I was very curious about where ATSC 3.0 was at. We are cutting the cord ( again ), and I have a first gen Tablo and wasn't sure if it was worth upgrading, or moving to different / newer hardware.
Even though I am from California (East Bay), I can still say that I do agree with You when You say that "unless You are experiencing major TV reception issues, there is really no reason to rush out and buy a TV or TV box that is capable of receiving ATSC 3.0 or "NEXTGEN TV". Sure we do have our share of TV/FM RADIO reception issues out here, which I have learned how to deal with them. Even here in the Bay Area MOST TV/FM RADIO reception issues can be lessened or eliminated by just making a few changes to a persons antenna setup. I know that from over 60 years of personal experience. Out here the weather and atmospheric conditions can even affect TV/FM reception. Out where I am, having a good antenna setup is a MUST. THANK GOD FOR STREAMING!!!
Another good video from you. I would love to get a antenna but I live in the woods in Traverse City, Mi. My house is about 1/2 up the road in Michigan that has a run away truck ramp plus to the south KS a hill we can't see over. So I am afraid to waste my money on something that is nonreturnable.
About 6 months ago I bought a Samsung S90C. ATSC 3.0 wasn't a consideration, but it does have the tuner. I'm not particularly interested in any bells and whistles, but our local NBC and FOX stations (both owned by Nexstar) have been broadcasting in NextGen since 2020. So I tried to pick them up (mainly to check the picture quality) and couldn't. I later found out they're transmitting from a low power station, all on 14 and out of range of my indoor antenna (which thankfully is all I need). Plus I think the signal is encrypted. So much for that. But I'm fine with the great pictures I get in good old 1.0, so it makes no difference. I was just curious.
Hey Tyler, is it necessary for me to ground my antenna, it's one of those plastic jobs , figure 8 hanging on the hook way up high on a pole, metal pole, but it's plastic and it's hanging on a metal hook at the top of the pole, I just don't see that it would be necessary to ground, the pole, the way it is
Tyler, I'm having trouble with some fringy reception, do you have an opinion as to what might help more, a new tuner or a preamp?
Can an amplifier from a Terk HDTV antenna be used with a different HDTV antenna?
The US government's hunger for more spectrum to sell to the highest bidder may result in an earlier transition to ATSC 3.0 than many of us expect.
This is the only way I see ATSC 3.0 being mandated - another spectrum auction which will probably take place in five years plus another five years for the transition to take place.
Tried a set top box specified for ATSC 3.0. It didnt pick up about half the channels that my TV with ATSC 1.0 could get. I also didnt notice any difference in picture quality on ATSC 3.0 channels. Was really disappointed and returned the box...
You probably don't have many 3.0 channels in your area yet, so there's likely not much for that box to pick up, yet.
I made basically the same mistake 20 years ago when digital was first rolling out, and there was nothing in my area for about 2 years, and then there was still basically nothing, because of such a fragile signal, and I'm pretty sure my local broadcasters also slashed their broadcasting power.
I did figure its going be while before netx gen starts up since not every station carry's it
I currently have two tablo 3rd generation boxes for ATSC 1.0, a HD HomeRun Flex 4k for ATSC 3.0 unencrypted channels and recently added the zapperbox for DVR of ATSC 3.0 unencrypted AND encrypted channels. I like tablo's easy to use interface and prefer it over zapperbox interface but when it comes to picture quality the ATSC 3.0 broadcast is better and typically in higher resolution including HDR (on Zapperbox). Another important factor is if you are using a sound bar that decodes Dolby Atmos the sound is much more dynamic and better quality than what I hear on shows streaming from tablo devices (again on zapperbox). In the end I prefer the ATSC 3.0 for better sound and picture quality. I will not buy another tablo DVR until they finally catch up to some of the other vendors that support ATSC 3.0 I also believe people will vote with their wallets. How fast is Zapperbox growing as a company? What is their growth rate compared to Tablo, Silicondust, ect.
No followup video on atsc 3 radio? =)
We can get 45 ATSC 1.0 local channels where I live here in south central Pa, Harrisburg, York, Lancaster. I live nearer to Harrisburg. How be it there is a bit of program duplication, so we still have about 26 or so different programs to watch. If I rotate my outside TV antenna, we can get more distant additional TV channels. No need to get an ATSC 3.0 receiver.
I'm holding out for ATSC 4.0.
I have an atsc 3.0 tuner. But it only gives me one extra Channel which is the Tennis Channel and I don't really care about tennis. And most of my main go to channels have been atsc 1.0 and I'm very happy with them. In the DRM encryption really sucks for Network tuner users like an hdhomerun. I use mine everyday to watch TV on my phone or my laptop and it's great bring the TV wherever you need it to be in the house. Of course I listen to Tyler years ago even before RUclips I had an outdoor antenna and it's the way to go.
That's awesome you got a 3.0 tuner! I assume you're getting Syracuse? I remember us talking about this when we met two years ago.
What is the current status on TV production with 3.0 tuners? Didn't LG announce they would no longer produce TV's with built-in 3.0 tuners due to a license issue?
LG dropped 3.0 completely. Samsung stopped including it in most of their 2024 sets. However, TCL is jumping on board.
I am not concerned with ATSC 3.0 several years away. I'll upgrade as needed. I am absolutely happy with Tablo.
I have a flat antenna from RCA and it picks up if not all most channels. Is that OK?
I'm not worried about it I just hope we get more channels with the 1.0 later I can't afford a high dollar tv with nextgen with my coat hanger antenna and channel master amplifier and rg6 coax cable
Don't worry, ATSC 1.0 will be around for at least another ten years. It's even possible that ATSC 3.0 might flop. It seems that very few outside the big media companies and a few tech nerds want it.
@@AntennaMan think we will get more channels later in the coming years or so
Thanks for making this video Tyler. As someone who is literally living pretty much every minute my TV is on with MeTV Toons now, (thanks for that fantastic interview and letting us know about the channel by the way,) hopefully this video will help clear up any misconceptions. Myself personally I’d much rather them use whatever resources they are putting toward ATSC 3.0 I’m just changing the broadcast codec to a more efficient one so that we can get 4K like that station owner you showcased.
I'm glad Me-TV Toons is in your market! I agree with you that it's better to use more efficient codecs on ATSC 1.0 than force everyone to buy a new TV. Most TVs support AVC/MPEG-4.
@@AntennaManMe too! It really does make you feel like a kid again right down to having to remember what time your favorite cartoon is on! Haha! Exactly! I would think it would probably be much harder than not to find a 4K TV that doesn’t and every TV that’s not older than 5 years is probably that by now.
Hey Tyler - What are your thoughts on ATSC3.0-ready TVs? I have an opportunity to buy an inexpensive Samsung QN90C and I'm wondering if DRM is a showstopper in NextGen TVs. Or is it just for DVRs and external devices? Thanks.
Standalone TVs with 3.0 tuners built in aren't as impacted by DRM as set bop boxes and DVRs. If you can find one for a reasonable price, it might be worth purchasing if you can't pick up all local channels reliably in ATSC 1.0. Otherwise, there isn't much to gain with ATSC 3.0.
There has to be an analog work around for this problem but the average viewer will not know how to do it. of course,these are 'quasi legal' but they must exist.Tyleer,as always,has the facts and shares them.Loved the video where you showed the UHD ATSC 1.0 broadcast.
It seems that NextGen is now in my area. I've noticed of late, my signal strength is much weaker on the older ATSC 1.0 channels, i.e FOX and NBC, 60% on good days where it used to be 90%+. Is there such a thing as trasmitting at lower powers?
No, the TV stations did not reduce their power. TV reception has just gotten worse in recent years thanks to the FCC selling a large chunk of TV spectrum to cell phone companies.
Hey dude I had a question to ask you that you might know more about them myself if there is a way around this. A while back I bought an antenna for my phone and depending on where you are it works as long as you got good reception and it works with a basic app from the Play store. Now that's fine I got no problem with using that type of set up if that's what I have to but not long ago I saw a video of a phone in Brazil there was a Samsung phone I believe and similar to how some phones have built-in FM radio in them when you plug a pair of headphones in or something like that, the one from Brazil may have done the radio thing too I don't know but the thing that caught my eye is that just by itself it picked up local channels in other words it had a built-in antenna and by just simply walking outside you can use the phone to watch regular airway TV. Which I thought that was an awesome phone and an awesome idea now my question for you is is there such a thing in America or is that something they only have outside of the country. And if it's not available in America if you can I still wouldn't mind seeing a video about what type of options we do have in America to watch antenna TV on our phones?
And by the way sorry I know my video wasn't nothing about this particular video you were making but it's a question I've been wondering for a while and you seemed like the perfect person to ask
This used to be common in the US about ten years ago in Samsung, LG and Motorola smartphones but now only a few midrange/budget models (mostly Motorola) have FM tuners built in.
Are you sure there's not an app for radio station broadcasts? I'm in Los Angeles are and most of the radio stations advertise they have some sort of app, but maybe that's just in big markets like Los Angeles. I gave up on FM radio as its become just like broadcast TV, a stream of commercial ads occasionally interrupted by a few minutes of radio programming. I still get OTA TV, watch it for the news and occasional sports, but that's it.
@@crosslink1493Most of them simulcast online on apps like iHeartRadio, but that depends on your mobile data/wifi not actually receiving the FM signal directly.
@@crosslink1493 You may be confusing radio app's, like generic and widely used TuneIn, or station or group apps that often enable more intensive spyware/tracking or push ads, with the FM tuner capacity in some cel chipsets, that many carriers firmware disabled, but which also requires hardware support including an antenna, for which an isolated headphone jack and ground/common/shield of headphone cables were often used as, in order to function.
Lots of OTA broadcasters do the same voice tracking tricks some streamers use, where one DJ may do 5 radio "shows" with prerecorded voice breaks run by automation in programmed music and other tracks. Many of those run off a streaming server in Florida that contracts with lots of broadcast and online only programmers, to handle Copyright management and interface to users and other distribution services.
I guess the higher cost in ATSC 3.0 set top boxes is due that most of them are also Android tv boxes in there so the extra cost of the boxes since it's used extensively Google Android technologies in ATSC 3.0
Hopefully we get 4k with the current standard
They are "monetizing" themselves out of existence. Rather than having a blend of channel types. Nick always tells it like it is...
Not a techy here. I ditched cable for streaming but (as expected) those prices are going up. I live in Massillon, Ohio. I just want an OTA antenna that actually works to get my local channels. Any advice?
I'm still thinking of getting an ATSC 3.0 tuner. All major OTA network stations in my area broadcast a 3.0 signal, including PBS. One station even does the occasional 4k live broadcast. Just the tuner is fine since I don't care about TV recording.
I haven't heard of any TV stations doing 4K on ATSC 3.0. Was it real 4K or just upscaled? What channel? Just the one channel in Oregon that Tyler did a video about that does 4K with ATSC 1.0
I wouldn’t get 3.0 simply for the sake of it or 4k.
I appreciate it when the wind blows and my 1.0 channels pixelate. 3.0 is solid then.
I bought a atsc 3.0 tuner and abc channel was encripted.I bought 2 tvs with ATSC 3.0 built in and so far no encription.
The station in your area isn't broadcasting 4K. If you see any 4K marketing on a live broadcast, it's only available on a paid TV service, not over the air.
ATSC 3.0 is in the broadcasters back pocket, in case people start losing interest in paid streaming. I could see it being mainly used as a pay for view for major sporting events. It would be interesting, if they use it in the near future to give a VR-AR sporting event experience.
The problem: unless you have a really big flat screen or a high-quality projector, ATSC 3.0 is not useful because frankly, 720p/1080i for broadcast is such a huge leap over the old NTSC color standard that any further improvements is at the point of "gilding the lily."
Keep in mind that while cable TV services remain active, the stations currently add sub-channel content hoping to be picked by cable systems.
The real test is when cable TV services cease to operate and many are dropping their services due to competition from other online sources. Stations are all looking at NextGen for continued revenue but many people may just purchase Roku's, Google TV, Fire TV, etc. to get those same channels. Some may stay with antennas, but this generation has no interest in antennas. They expect a TV to operate like their cell phone. Just turn it on anywhere. If ATSC 3.0 doesn't deliver that capability, that plan will fail.
As a business, if a station can't generate enough revenue to survive without cable, it goes dark. NextGen is a gamble as I see it. One that may not compete well with online services that are more dependable and doesn't require you to switch sources on your TV, which has become more difficult with recent software upgrades and remotes without a dedicated source button.
Hi Tyler, I am subscribed to your channel, but I am a dummy, how is it that unplugging, my television, disconnecting the coax, that goes to my outside antenna, for a few minutes and then hooking it all back up, my channels come in better, it makes me TV play, when normally it would be scrambled, but if I turn it off I have to start all over again, unplug it and disconnect the cable thank you Tyler
Nice RUclips award cuz
The problem is if there's a bad idea you can count on the federal government making that choice. They get everything wrong, every time, about everything, and claim success.
If I buy a new TV I want forward compatibility.
But then, if I can't watch it without paying more or some such, then I don't want it. I certainly don't want to be first for the latest thing, it never works correctly until a revision or 2 comes along.
Tyler, great video! Quick question. I got a antenna recommendation from you which has worked well but now ABC WFAA channel 8.1 out of Dallas fails constantly. I’m wondering how I could upgrade to fix this?
Send me an email and I'll look into it for you. You can simply respond to the previous email with the antenna recommendation I sent.
@@AntennaMan i’ve looked through my email and I can’t find anything from the past. It’s been quite a while and I purchased the antenna and installed it in the attic and everything‘s been fine up until the last six months to a year ago with channel 8 ABC. I’ll send in for a new recommendation.
Your first recommendation was the Antennas Direct ClearStream 2V Indoor Outdoor TV Antenna. Really nothing has changed other than ABC. Very strange.
The more I hear about ATSC 3.0 the more I don't even want it, I have faith that the corps involved in this transition will ruin all that I want out of over the air TV viewing!
in my case i dont have atsc 3.0 just the normal 1.0. some stuff i barely get where i am are buzzer the local fox network and even the local pbs or public broadcasting channel and me tv. i live in an apartment on the bottom and its hard to get some stuff so yea
A distinct advantage to purchasing a 'dumb' display (projector or flat screen) and using a external tuner. One can then upgrade the tuner when/if the OTA TV industry decides what the heck they are actually going to implement (not to mention getting around to actually doing it). Another big advantage is the 'dumb' display will not 'shut down' when the bloatware OS lose its connection to the internet.
Yes, or: If you have an old analog TV keep using that until there is a good reason to replace it.
3.0 ATSC is not that important to me because I have 4K TVS that upscale content that looks great.?the 3.0 channels that I do get are not even all in 4K. What's the deal with that?😊
So disappointed, but not surprised, that corporate greed and our government that works for the corporations, not us, are screwing up the transition to atsc 3 with drm encryption. I don't care that much about the 4k and Dolby stuff, but the more robust signal would really be nice. Without the drm we could already have widespread cheap tvs and boxes with atsc 3 tuners and be enjoying it.
As I keep saying, "too early" for me to be buying anyhow. There's so little to watch, I haven't used my DVR in months.
I'm thinking about the gt dongle so I can have real TV playing as background noise on my tablet while I'm out bike riding. The problem is there are only 3 unencrypted channels in my area and one is in spanish. I suppose I could improve my spanish, but reading subtitles while biking isn't a good idea. And I'm not really sure this station has subtitles on the atsc 3.0.
I live in apartments with trees around so I can't even get Metv on my indoor antenna, but I get it on Spectrum, I was really hoping Spectrum was going to add Metv Toons, but they didn't, any word on this? 🤔
I'm not sure but you can contact Spectrum and ask them to carry Me-TV/Me-TV Toons.
@AntennaMan I have but keep getting different answers. I even called when my internet speed was low, and they sent me a Xumo box I didn't even ask for.
I have a SONY and a HISENSE TV with ATSC 3.0 built in.The signals comes in at 100%.The programming is identical to ATSC 1.0 . To me it appears that the picture quality is slightly better with ATSC 3.0 My ATSC 1.0 channels come in generally around 75% with a Wineguard roof mounted antenna with no amps and RG6 QUAD cable.There is definately a signal increase when I put on QUAD cable..none of my channels , so far are not encripted. I live in the Pittsburgh tv market.
Keep in mind that in some cases, the ATSC 3.0 lighthouse happens to be in a closer location than the ATSC 1.0 channels. This is the case in Pittsburgh as the WPNT 3.0 lighthouse that carries WTAE happens to be closer to the center of Pittsburgh than WTAE's main broadcast signal about 15 miles southeast. Beyond that, ATSC 3.0 signals do tend to be more reliable than ATSC 1.0 signals because of the more robust COFDM modulation.
My ADTH 3.0 box does not have any DRM lock out. Right now the 1080i to 1080p upconversion is OK. The next step In testing will be 1080p raw followed by 4k raw.
This is the same testing method that was used in France for their move to 4k raw. We will all have to patient.
Disconnect the internet, try to tune in a DRM encrypted channel and see what happens. This is the problem with DRM.
👍😎
Was excited for 3.0 because of the improved reception but sad that it was ruined by DRM and licensed codecs. Seems ruined by greed. ..low power transmitters and encrypted ..yep they have increased viewers in mind.
ATSC 3.0 is tainted
That's me, reg OTA channels don't come in well[hills, trees] All 4 next gen channels always come in and no pixelation either!
On atsc 3.0. fox 5 in Las Vegas is over the Internet, but some reason I lose the stream and have to get it back. My download is 100+. The t2 channel has no issues. Is it because fox 5 is encrypted?
I'm on a zapper box.
For those that might want to know, TiVo costs about the same as a zapper box.
ATSC 1.0 works perfectly fine...it'll take years of bureaucratic red tape before 3.0 gets perfected...
Ya know I like that HomeWorks DVR you recommended. It works great. I have a NextGen TV but I do not hook it up to the internet. In my area why? there is only about four 3.1 channels that are like CBS. NBC, ABC, and FOX...The same channels are being broadcast in 1.0 to which I do not watch them any way. Example Metv just started a new channel in my are called Toons. Which is old cartoons and such. You can not tell me all that 4k and 3.1 is going to make programs like Supercar or Soobydoo worth all that? No. Higher nits yes and maybe HDR which is not how any of that stuff was made. Supercar was blk&wht mono sound.
My desire for ATS 3.0 is because I have 1 main channel that will not come in. They broadcast on VHF channel 8 and at my location I can't get. Plus I'm a tech nerd so...
Now we need custom atsc 3 channels because i dont need 3 pbs this could be an option
So... what happened to 2.0?
See video below: ruclips.net/video/FUrGSPRJ8Kc/видео.html
Nvidia shield works with my HD homerun 4k and the atsc 3 unencrypted channels just fine.
Yes, most devices will decode unencrypted 3.0 channels fine. The part in the video about specific streaming devices refers to DRM encrypted channels, which if the networks get their way, will be most if not all of them at some point.
I use a antenna to watch TV if xfinity is down.