British Spitfire Vs Bf-109 Western Front World War 2 Dogfights Digital Combat Simulator.
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If you enjoy war thunder or are looking forward to Microsoft flight simulator 2020, consider getting yourself into Digital Combat Simulator by Eagle Dynamics, the Combat side of Aviation with the BVR and Dogfights really provides a different and interesting perspective on aviation. You can fly all kinds of combat aircraft including the F-16, F-15, F-14, JF-17, Su-27, Mig-29, Mirage and the F-18 Hornet along with many other aircraft and helicopters like the Ka-50 and Mi-8.
In this video we go for a classic world war 2 dogfight between the British spitfire and the German BF109 this battle was obvs something that happened frequently on the western front of the war and particularly around the battle for Britain and I believe in the Malta theatre as well and in some areas in the Africa Campaign. 
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Being in a fight against a bandit in a better energy state makes things a lot harder and its something the Spitfires dealt with often which really shows you the size of the balls these guys were dragging into the cockpits of these spitfires. I remember reading that during the battle for Britain the Germans were loosing a lot of bombers so they ordered the BF109s to fly with the Bombers and escort them in formation which left them slow and basically killed their energy advantage and made it a lot easier to shoot them down. Dogfights back then were something special and the guys participating on both sides really were brave men. Thank you to TheLastTaco for helping with this and all of you for watching. Much Love.
Was that twirl spin maneuver by the BF109 a real maneuver performed by pilots? It looked like dance and I didn't know something like that was possible
F 15 vs f 14 ?
Fantastic, and good insight regarding Göring's foolish order to increase close escort duties. Please do more WW2 dogfighting!!
Did you play with the Douglas Bader mod?
You know, cut your legs off so you can pull more gs?
You're wrong about the high-scoring Germans aces having better aircraft or tactics. It was simply because they were put on the frontlines until they died or got captured.
US/Commonwealth doctrine was to pull the best pilots off the front to train the new pilots in real-world, combat-proven tactics. Goering liked the romance of the "knights of the air", warriors who did nothing but live battle and die nobly on the field.
Goering, of course, was an idiot.
US and Commonwealth pilots tended to get yanked from frontline duties at 25 or so kills to share their experience with new pilots; Germans could fight until they got captured or killed. Hence the triple-figure kill counts.
It was a much smarter system on balance. Whereas the Germans played for propaganda, with these knights with two hundred, three hundred victories still roaming the air, the US and Brits played it smart. By having so many experience trainers around they ensured that, on the balance, the average skill of their air forces was much, much higher than the Nazis - the rawest US or Commonwealth pilot by 1943 or so was going to be a much better-trained pilot than the equivalent German one.
The highest-scoring aces out of the US and Commonwealth forces both had fantastically awesome names (Dick Bong and Marmaduke Pattle) - and they only had 40 kills, just under an eighth of Erich Hartmann's count.
love the WWII fights, wish we could see more of them here!
Same
roger that
Sure man I’m gonna do my best to bring more of the ww2 stuff
@@GrowlingSidewinder this would be amazing, especially if you flew the Fw 190 D-9. Too bad there's not a Ta-152H module lol. Keep up the good work, man!
@@GrowlingSidewinder Can't wait. Love your videos but love your WW2 stuff more :) Keep the great stuff happening!!!
"nothing can out turn a spitfire"
A6M: hold my sake
"Nothing can outburn a Zero"
I'll have my drink back now.
@@johnfordham7434 ki 43 iii otsu : hold my sake
@@aircombatmaneuvers Sick of drinking that water, I'll go back to a Smooth Tennessee Whiskey and you won't be holding that.
@@johnfordham7434
Vodka you capitalist dog! 😁
Only because they were slow
2:21
Bf 109: it’s over Spitfire, I have the ground.
Spitfire: you underestimate my turn rate.
If 109: it's over Spitfire, I have the ground.
6:14
Spitfire: Yes. You do indeed.
11:20 more appropriate use of this meme
true but johny johnson said turn rate of the spit is good.but you can't just keep turning in a dog fight.
@@Hadgerz Its just joke u no hrave to be mad
Ground won’t do you much good in aerial combat unless you plan on rapid unscheduled disassembly as a strategy.
the canopy glass looking "scratchy" is actually very accurate, let me tell you this. In those birds they used plexiglass and looks like that if the sun reflects on it. I`m an ex glider pilote where the canopys are (or back then at least were) made from the same material. The visual effect is exactly the same as it was in real life when I was sitting in a glider and watched roughly into the direction of the sun. And just like in dcs it could sometimes be hard to identify other planes flying close to you somewhere. Pretty much the reason why especially trainer gliders used to be painted in bright orange colours or a mix of red and white.
My father told me a story from my grandfather about the gunners in the Lancaster bombers polishing the panes of perspex in their turrets with Brasso, to polish out any scratches.
It works quite well on the protective plastic lenses on self switching welding helmets too.
Can confirm, hockey stand protection barriers (the "glass") are made out of plexi as well and it's really easy to see the way scratches and divets catch the light when illuminated by a bright source (rink lighting, the sun, etc).
This truly was the golden age of dogfighting and fighter planes in general.
I think WW1 was.
Nah WW1 is where true dog fighting happened. As plane power and speed increased dogfighting decreased.
If you want to survive, donˋt dogfight. The surviving Aces did so by seing their enemies first, bouncing them and didappearing.
@@theonlymadmac4771 very true
@@theonlymadmac4771 i don't think is about decision to dogfight or not is like in war . Choose to stab ur enemy in the back suddenly or tell him to fight u hand to hand . Unless u r a man of honor 😁😁 when the spitfire find a way to survive from the b&z tactics the germans update bf109 to
That hammerhead by the 109 in the second fight was nice
Indeed. It's favorite 109 Tactic. Spitfire should never follow 109 in such climb if 109can catch Spitfire slow hanging like static target. Speed is life. Altitude is life insurance 😉
@@303Pinker _"Speed is life. Altitude is life insurance"_ I like that!
I forgot to mention, that hammerhead move is really risky when more planes fly around. Hanging plane is easy target for them.
God, there are few things that feel more awesome than a hammerhead. Even if you totally whiff your shots afterwards, just that visual sensation of the tumble back to earth is one of the most visceral experiences in a sim, you can practically feel your stomach flipping like your on a roller coaster
I was just wishing I could find a channel which does Growling Sidewinder style dogfight breakdowns with warbirds. And here the next day is the actual Growling Sidewinder with a warbirds video!
Plenty more to come brother
He is the chosen one
Warbirds? I prefer peregrine falcons to tear the enemies’ eyes out.
I spent 10 yrs on Warbirds. .
Thank you Growling. I still miss it. The Aces High crowd kinda turned into asshats. Ruined it all and then life intervened.
Hey man, I know you're all about the 1v1 dogfights, but I think something like this - with like 4 ship v 4 ship would be a lot of fun. A lot of the dynamics of how these planes fly and how you fight them changes when you add extra people into the mix. I think it would be interesting to do a cliffs of dover type dealy.
The reason I don’t like multi ships is 1 they’re hard to organize and 2 you can’t really concentrate on tactics like I could be focusing on the tactics of the 1 circle fight with this bandit but his buddy can show up and destroy me. Which is indeed realistic but I’m not sure it works with what I’m trying to achieve in the video which is so discuss tactics and manoeuvring it’s an interesting idea tho something I’ve considered for a long time just not sure how to make it work tbh.
@@GrowlingSidewinder Good for one on one tactics but you could move to two on two tactics sometimes which were more like what really happened in WW2
Seems like 1v1 favors maneuverability
@@CarlosRodriguez-dd4sb one vs one favors the one who knows his plane and his opponent's well, knows what he's doing and can execute what he plans better than his opponent. In that case, the manoeuvrable plane was at a disadvantage vs the high energy plane because his engine was much weaker, yet the better pilot won despite not being in the better plane.
Kinda curious about what would happen if the Spitfire had the height advantage. Would he use boom and zoom as well? Given that the 109 can't turn as well as the Spitfire, would to he 109 be able to evade? Wouldn't the pilot with the energy advantage use a high or low yoyo to deal with a tighter turning opponent? Also wondering why you "cooked your engine" in the climb - or was it just running out of airspeed?
As someone who likes planes but doesn't know anything about air combat, I really do appreciate your explanations. Thank you!
I love these videos. However, coming from Aces High and several physics-based MMOsims before that (circa 1996 and a decade after)- neither one of these guys would survive an engagement with a moderately skilled player.
@@packrat9433 Well, is there a channel or other resource where I can learn WWII era air combat? I'm thinking of buying a stick and jumping into IL-2 1946 for my first foray into actual combat sim.
@@Hunter_312 i know this is late, but if you do make sure to get a track ir or vr headset as well...near impossible to play without and very frustrating
@@black07rr Thanks for the tip, but these things are horribly expensive in my coutry. Hell, even the basic stick I'm thinking of geting costs 350 banana bucks. Trackir is almost as expensive as the 2 grand I paid for my GPU. Guess I'm gonna have to put up with mouselook or some shit like that.
@@Hunter_312 I have a joystick and downloaded il2 last night, the problem I found immediately was trying to track the targets, since joysticks are made for you right hand as is flight sticks, taking your hand off the flight stick to grab your mouse doesn’t work, so with mount a track-ir or vr headset you basically have to fly keyboard and mouse style which is perfectly fine…just not as immersive
I'd love to see Growling cross over into IL-2. You've done a lot for the DCS community, but there's a whole other mirror universe of IL2 players, streamers, etc.
In the late 2000s, our fix came like this.
"Relive the battle, dissect the tactics. Relive . . . the Dogfights."
Now, we get spoilt by GS.
the way you narrate these fights along with the music really made this a soothing dogfight.
In that last climbing sequence, he was "hanging on the prop" as his aircraft began to vertically "torque roll" (note - it takes massive amounts of static thrust for a propeller driven aircraft to execute this maneuver). It sounded like he cut his power to follow you as soon as he saw your nose drop.
That manouver to go vertical to stall and drop the nose and fire from above was beautiful. Deserved the kill. Awesome move by growling.
Many a Gerry remembers the sound of that Merlin engine turning in on them. Great video bro as always. Makes me proud to be british watching that gorgeous spitfire. I was at the cliffs of Dover once when 2 came flying over together. It was amazing to see.
That sounds freaking awesome!
I'd give both cajones to see that, but my wife still keeps them in a jar under the bed in case she needs them.
That everyday improving damage module. Love it.
Yes, 109 was so dominant scary indeed.
Forgot which German ace wrote on his memoirs in the eastern front, with air superiority, about only diving on targets if enemy was oblivious to his presence. Working every single time, making him rack up victories.
You're probably thinking of Erich Hartmann. Most successful fighter pilot in history - 352 kills.
I honestly think the Bf109 is one of the most beautiful aircraft ever made. That rounded nose end is just... perfection.
edit1: also the nose gun placement is just... *mwah*
edit2: AND THE WINGS
But spit tho
18:00 that would be a good scene in a movie
It's so cool that you posted this video, G/S.
Just this evening, I got in to my Spitfire and engaged the Bf-109 over the White Cliffs of Dover. Stayed within his turn all the way, got a number of rounds off on him, damaged him and as I went in for the kill, he started out climbing me. In the end, my engine started smoking (I wasn't hit at all) so I ran out of power. I think my mistake was I only used machine guns and not cannons otherwise I would have shredded him.
Try flying these aircraft in VR. The immersion is phenomenal but the vertigo takes a while to get used to.
I'm going to have to post some of my videos so you can see my Dogfights.
Love the Spitfire's North Africa colours, by the way.
Thank you man and if you didn’t kill him it was deff the small cal machine guns I believe the spit only even has those garbage guns to walk the cannons onto target with the tracers.
@@GrowlingSidewinder Shit. You just made me realise my guns and cannons are mapped to different HOTAS buttons.
@@GrowlingSidewinder oh I subscribed
I don't ever recall accounts of Spitfire (or Hurricane) engines overheating in a climb or in a turning fight. Strange. Even tail chases with the fighter hanging on its prop didn't result in a smoking engine. Was there some sort of radiator door setting in the game that you forgot to set, perhaps? I thought the radiator doors were automatic.
@@iskandartaib I think you're correct. Perhaos I needed to open up the cowling flaps to cool the engine. Also, I remembered that my cannons and machine guns are bound to the same joystick button. So, while I shredded him with the machine guns, it did little damage.
5:47 cm away from wingtip collision
I agree with you, Sidewinder. I've been reading some of the autobiographies of some fighter pilots of WW2. They must've had nerves of steel, eyes like binoculars and an incredible amount of patience; I'm currently reading Redtails Blackwings: The Men of America's Black Air Force by John Holway and a few others about the Tuskegee Airmen. Some talk about fighting, and no being able to see or hear an enemy diving on them and other methods of air combat and survival. It's frightening! LOL
So many bomber crews were blessed to be escorted by those men. So much respect for them.
LOVE these vintage pairings - in the time before air-to-air missiles, it's really the only scenario where guns vs guns is believable. More to come?
They also added a supercharger in later models to allow the Spitfire to have more of a climbing ability
Ah the Spit, my very favourite DCS Module!
A few things to keep in mind with the Spit:
-Your wings snap off quite easily at high speeds after a dive
-Your climb rate isn't that much worse than the K4, its like 3000 ish vs 4000ish (if the K4 has MW50)
-You have to keep your speed above ~200knots, else you won't have sufficient airflow over your radiator at WEP
-You can't prophang very well due to that
I have read that the Spitfire's carburetor had problems inverted , but this one does not seem to ??
@@robertlackey7212 I think the Mk.V was the last one to have this problem, not sure. Mk.IX has injection.
@@PetarJovanovic993 How can you tell this is a later model ? Does it have a "i" after the name ?
@@robertlackey7212 the mark number is higher (mk I -> mk II -> mkIII etc). Its like a 109E vs 109F vs 109G vs 109K...
@@sloppy-1-1 I was joking about the "i" , but how do you tell what mark number it is ?
I grew up wanting to fly a Spitfire - like every other kid - so this is cracking stuff, not far off forensic.
Thanks, man.
OMG. You have to have to have to go to a real airshow and hear one fly. It is amazing. They kind of buzz through the air. Badass.
Damn nice flying. Newbie here searching for vids on il 2 1946 and yt has recommended me your channel. I'm loving it so far.
I love the prop fights, would love to see some more!
Awesome work fella + sublime piano in the bg.
Kudos.
Just to think of the amazing skill and damn right bravery of the pilots on both sides during WW2, its incredible what they managed to do with the little they had
High-scoring German aces were constantly moving across fronts to any needed location (so there were plenty of planes to fight), and then all other pilots were working to help them shooting planes down. Basically they only shoot planes down with maximal assistance possible.
The Spitfire is By far the coolest named Aircraft of all time. Just try n change my mind.
Loving these vids man please keep em coming
Brilliant graphics, amazing views - good job dude! 👏🏻
I watched a great vid by an old German fighter ace, it was in a video game back in the 90's I think.
He basically said that most decent pilots if put in the same situation the german pilots were would have had similar kills/scores.
Time flown and amount of enemies/targets. The German pilots flew all the time, generally until they couldn't anymore, were always outnumbered so there were always a lot of targets.
In terms of Spit vs 109, I remember one statement by a German pilot again saying he felt the differences in the aircraft were mostly marginal and it often came down to how the encounter opened, the tactics and training.
I think this probably changed once the Spit MkIX came on stream (just after a period of dominance by the 190).
Great vid btw.
Based on Il-2 experience, 109E and the later 109s are different kind of beast. E is not super fast, but is quite turning (probably more similar to early spits) while with each successive variant it becomes more of a B&Z.
Totally Agree. The Spit 5 was very awesome but a role-player. The Spit IX was a MF beast and a good match for all BF109 variants (maybe until the end of the war, I get fuzzy)
Hey, I'm glad you did a series on WW2 planes. I just love them raw dogfights.
On top of luring him to waste his energy, you could also explore equalizing the energy instead. When a plane dives, they can only go so fast before hitting maximum speed WHILE losing altitude. This ultimately reduces his energy too. Your goal is to stay infront of him and dive with him while jinking. While he is at max speed, you are speeding up and trying to equalize with his energy state. At this point, if he breaks off, you will find that you should be able to catch him more effectively when he climbs.
It's 3D chess with guns and a timer. Best thing ever, well... we all know what's better - but still. So fun with WWII guns/cannons on planes instead of missiles.
Very cool to watch! Thanks guys!
Its always awesome to see someone else who has the same passion for airplanes
The first minutes where like a Champions League final with two Italian teams.
This man is a complete legend.... So is this channel.. My favourite channel btw. Good job sidewinder
That's awesome :) DCS looks amazing and some nice flying!
Spitfire MK IX Verses ME 109 K4 is normally a losing battle. If you would have given a cannon burst in your climb before your engine blew you may have gotten lucky. Great video.
I was just thinking how I wanted to see some more of your warbird fights
Heres a story from my Auntie. She was in "Old Harlow" Essex .near the Green man Inn , It was sometime in August 1940 , there was a dog fight going on over head and she was being showered by spent cartidges
3:50 US Navy: We can make whole ships disappear, but the equipment is way too heavy for aircrafts.
Bf-109 turns on cloaking device.
Many thanks 💕 for all efforts ... god 🙏 protect you ...
The editing on these is just amazing! Love WW2 birds, but I can't say I love them more than my sweet F-16.
I always enjoy your videos. Thanks for sharing your experience (and fun!). Have you guys tried doing a Spitfire vs. I-16 matchup? Both are very maneuverable, but the Spit has the advantage in speed and acceleration in just about every attitude (level flight/climb/dive), so it can dictate the engagement. The I-16 is my favorite WW2 warbird, and I routinely win against AI-controlled Spitfires (AI set to "ace"), but that's because the AI is fighting stupidly. I'm curious how the I-16 would fair against a proficient human pilot. I'd love to see you guys stage such a fight. :)
I thought I've heared somewhere that 109s struggle a bit on right turns, specifically.
Wondering of it was modeled into DCS...
Thank you for this awesome video, definetly the golden age of air to air combat!
it kind of is, the torque of the engine is just what it is.
Great vid as always Growling. My fav is the P51 but the wing stall kills me. Just flips over and i can't feel it coming. WW2 stuff is a great change from our favourite jets. :)
thanks for always tuning and watching always nice to see you show up to videos man.
@@GrowlingSidewinder You flyem ill watch em. I learn a lot from you mate! :)
I just ordered the gladiator nxt as my first stick. Im looking foreward to this game a lot.
that twirl at the end was fricken badass. I sometimes try and do that in other flying games (such as geo fs and ace combat 7 since I don’t have dcs) point stands that was just awesome.
If you mean the maveuver by the Bf-109, it is called a hammerhead and it is a really effective maneuver if your opponent wants to follow you into a climb. You have to have more energy going into the climb though, or else they catch up and pick you out of the sky.
There were many versions of the Spitfire largely predicated on updated Merlin versions which doubled its power during the course of the war. The Me upgrades were limited as the war progressed and the Spitfires gradually became dominant.
Dude you haven’t a clue it was high octane fuels
I always wondered how to fight in the spitfire. Now I know why I lose so much because the Spitfire is a turn fiighter at best. Thank you for this video Growling Sidewinder ! :)
They werent ALWAYS at this sort of disadvantage you know. Pretty much only during the battle of britain did the 109s have a fairly constant height advantage.
Love the WWII fighter planes. I’ve enjoyed your past videos as well. Maybe it’s time for a WWII highlight video??
That hammerhead in Round 2 was one the most beautiful kills I ever watched.
FYI you can tighten up the BF109 turn rate by wheeling some flaps, with this the Emil matches the MkIa Spit turn shown in documentation. Brit birds don't have flap increments, they're either fully deployed or fully retracted, used only for landing, so they can't use combat flaps. American birds can, they actually have a specific combat flaps setting right from the P36 onwards. 109 can obviously because they're manually wheeled.
The hydraulic blower drive in the 109 also doesn't lose manifold pressure like the two-stage Merlins around the interchange altitude, so if the 109 does lose energy they want to pull in to about 3000 metres and draw you into a slow tractor climb, just keep off your nose. The Merlin can't follow this climb, none of the late war British engines could and the Ministry warned pilots about it (I've got an excerpt of the documentation, even Tempest and Griffon pilots were warned they could not follow a BF109G into a slow climb at low energy and those are 2000hp engines, it was the blower gearing the Daimler doesn't have to worry about, plus paddle props on late G and K have tons of bite at low rpm). German Aces exploited this when they found themselves out of energy, to regain some altitude advantage.
Straight line acceleration is also fairly superior with the 109 but the Merlin catches as the engine works up. That's the aeromechanical system and lower frontal mass. Allied pilots had a higher management workload if they were to change engine settings through the combat regime and there is a bit of lag between them, the 109 has no problem making constant power adjustments and just keeps kicking in maximum prop bite as you go. It is another characterising difference to be exploited, particularly in the vertical where it just doesn't need to work as hard.
Getting under the nose of a Spit is good too, he loses sight with the wings in the way. Deadly mistake to try against a 109 which is specifically designed for diving attacks.
109 pilots shouldn't waste cannon shells on snap shots. Use the MG131 for that. The measure for advanced Luftwaffe training was no more than 20-30 MG rounds and 1-2 cannon rounds per kill. Just a couple of MK108 rounds will take down any aircraft but there is a special note for this gun: vertical convergence is a thing because its ballistics is so parabolic and the reflector is sighted for the MG131, so the MK108 is tooled to pass upwards through the pipper at 150 metres and downwards through it at 300-350 metres. Pilots described it as a grenade launcher for this reason and the extremely powerful filler charge. If you're going to be doing aerial marksmanship you're just wasting cannon rounds, put the e/a inside the tooling ranges and heavy hit him there, or just use the MG131 and save the heavy shells that aren't going to hit anyway.
edit to add one last piece of advice from Marsielle, he stressed was the absolute key to getting consistent kills whilst surviving: you must learn to handle the 109 at slow speed. They don't like it, so do that and you can always have the advantage.
On Spitfire actually one could use flaps on dogfight turns. It was just more tricky to turn on turn off continously.
@@303Pinker you maybe quite right but do you have any documentation or primary references (pilot reports, etc), as I've never heard of this and it is not mechanically sound. Brit Flaps can only be fully deployed (eg. 70deg?), obviously only safe at final approach landing speeds, combat flaps are slightly deployed (eg.15deg?), for use at relatively high speed.
@@jasonmorahan7450 I refering to Sim game reality. Not sure 100% for DCS, but is correct for IL 2 series. In real conditions theoretically also should be possibile, but almost impossible due to human body ergonomic limitations. Try to operate flap switch during 4G turn 😉 The trick is to initiate flaps for short time and retract them before high speed lock or damage occure.
Gotta luv the visuals from DCS! (I just got my i5 8400/RX 570 back online and *_luvin' it all!)_*
Lol, the Bf109 pulling up to 10.8g in that maneuver just before the kill...I don't know about the damage-model in DCS, but the Bf109's airframe was known for "folding its ears" when pulling out of a dive too sharply...in a conventional aircraft you could feel the aerodynamic forces acting on the surfaces, so I guess that helps to avoid this, plus they sometimes mounted weights on the stick to help avoid this.
That stall and hammer was really clever by the 109
Great stuff. I always learn something. Energymanagement is key. Is that the G6 skin from "Schwarze 8" over at Hangar10? Looks like it. Its funny because some of the new sound recordings for the DCS K4 were made from that actual plane.
Taco: Full flaps over the top, then landing flaps to bring your nose up to shoot. Had GS in first engagement in your sights if you used flaps to bring your nose up. Second: Begin a/the hammerhead with some speed on the clock as it will take a few seconds to rotate the airplane and you want to time it just right with some forward momentum. Say... 50-80 kph. Try the hammerhead pure vertical or 70-80 degrees of pitch. Some lift can help. GS... every bit of climb will negate his altitude advantage. Climb then level off even if it is just a few hundred feet. Bit by bit, inch by inch. Taco: If there is no more speed gain due to altitude loss then break of the attack and climb back up. This is how you maintain your energy (advantage) and my god man... be patient! GS has all day and you have only 3 minutes of patience. I recommend lighting a cigar to help with the impatience.
This is some solid advice but I'm sure there is a better way to format it. I assume you went along the video and typed as you watched, so it is understandable. Thanks for the tips even though I neither play with ww2 birds nor am a player in this video.
Spit pilots would also lure 109s into a spiral climb to fend off the 109s energy advantages.
What energy advantages?
Erich Hartmann once said: "Dogfighting is a waste of time". I think it's a lot of fun, without dying of course :D
Hartmann was an assassin - get in, shoot, get out, assess and try again if needed. (Well, he called it “coffee break”) Dogfight sims are my favourite thing in the world, but I’d be dead many, many times over if it was real!
I'm wondering if anyone ever uses Hartmann's escape maneuver in a turn fight in jets - push the stick forward just when your opponent on your six is in danger of pulling a lead and can't see you because the nose is in the way. I suppose in WW2 aircraft the nose really does get in to the way, in a jet the front view is a lot clearer because you're sitting up near the front.
@@iskandartaib Actually this wasn't just Hartmanns escape maneuver. German pilots used this trick to escape Spitfires.
The Spitfire had no engine with fuel injection, so the Motor stoped for a short time doing the same manouver and as I know the problem wasn't realy fixed to 100% during the war. Don't know if this is simulated in DCS, but in IL2 COD it is and in IL2 BOS as well I guess.
@@monfort537 I've only come across it in respect to Hartmann's memoirs. Hartmann only flew on the Eastern Front, he used it when in a turn fight. The escape maneuver used against (earlier) Spitfires was a simple push into a dive when bounced, rather than an escape from someone who's pulled a lead on you in a turn - doing this against later Spitfires and other fighters that didn't have the carburetor problem wouldn't work, of course, while Hartmann's maneuver would work against ANY opponent, regardless of whether his engine would cut out or not. Just wondering if this would work in a jet, and if it does, why everyone doesn't do it.
I love DCS ww2! The warbirds are great! Hell ya! Great video brother and literally hundreds of thousands of hours of history to work with, lol
Man give me piston engines any day of the week. I started on Microsoft's WWII combat flight sim when that was first out and love anything WWII
That spit is a beautiful piece of engineering
How you got killed is exactly how a lot of Wildcat pilots got smoked by Zeros in the Pacific early in the war. They'd stall out in a pursuit climb and the Zero would hammerhead right up their asses.
Pre Thach weave at least. The Wildcat had a lot of success vs the Zero once the correct tactics were implemented. The Hellcat that succeeded it was the end of many Zero aces, who misidentified it for a Wildcat and tried the same stall/hammerhead tactic, only to find the Hellcat up their ass with plenty of energy to spare with it's .50 cals ripping them to shreds.
Awesome fight mate. The spitfire reminds of the Hornet and the BF-109 reminds of the Mirage ( somewhat ).
ya the Devs don't seem to understand that your eyes don't focus on the canopy, you are focused on your enemy, it's just like standing a couple feet away from a window screen and looking at something a couple hundred yards away, you don't see the screen
How very sporting of you to give the altitude advantage. Zoom and boom, baby.
"Nothing can outturn the spitfire"
zero says hello
And then the Hurricane says hi.
I 16 says high
@@sule.A no . Russian I-16 in tide turn had a tendency to loosing a lots of energy and turns in to flat spin. This is not a War Thunder. In real combat life many Russian pilots in I-16 killed them self when they tried to fight with BF-109 F-4 or F-2 in turn fight. Low amount of the load-bearing surface of the panel of the wing created a conditions to unrecover flat spin. There were 2 planes with better turn radius than Spitfire - Hawker Hurricane, A6M2 Zero.
@@sanescobar7738 I 16s were just very unstable but they could turn and spitfires generally outmanuvar hurricanes if they didn't then the spitfire must have a massive speed and climb advantage
Would love to see you revisit these with the new damage model. Maybe after the 14th when we have the improved props and clouds?
You guys should put the spit up against the a6m2 ( zero ) . Both excellent turn fighters .
Always enjoy WWII dogfights!
You are a Master if understanding using / exploiting the energy of your opponent, you would’ve been a great ace, one thing tho he had a G( Gustav) model, you had a MK IX Spit, you’re at a disadvantage, later models of the spit were capable of matching the climb and dive of this model, also you’re both at a disadvantage with fuel, the 109 was a notorious gas guzzler combined with small tanks, which were viewed by the Germans as a weight saver and also didn’t effect handling!! Great content!! Do more!!
That is my favourite form of fighting in a clipped wing Spitfire. Drag the enemy to the deck and turn fight them. The clipped wing is a low altitude turn fighter (not good in a climb because of the clipped wings but in a turn fight it kicks butt.). I get more kills that way then any old boom and zoom. Nice to see you are doing more WWII plane videos. Jets can get so boring after awhile.
11 minute mark. Didn't I tell you the clipped wing is not a good climber??? Keep to dragging them to the deck and turn fighting them. There are Spitfire models with the full wing which are high altitude fighters but the clipped wing is not. Remember: clipped wing, low altitude turn fighter.
Ya wanna Boom? Mossie is the man.
For the purpose of these videos is there a way to disable the plexiglass cracking/hazing? Love these WWII matchups!
That Spitfire turns so well 🤩
From interviews of UK pilots of this time they prefered to fly into the Hurricane, the specs was not as good than the Spitfire but the Spitfire was very light meaning very poor protection to the pilot. At this time the main role of fighters was to kill bombers (or defend it): fortresses with many turrets (and rear turrets), most big dogfights turned around that, so not being squeeshy can seem more important than maneuverability.
Thanks for sharing
I think this might be the first time I ever heard an english speaker say Messerschmidt correctly... Hats off to you! :D
I've actually flown a Mk IX. Incredible experience. Very responsive and light controls. Turns like a kitten on a carpet.
One note about the very high scoring German aces, aircraft destroyed on the ground (i.e. parked), were considered a kill.
Also the ME-109 is still the most produced single seat fighter (and likely ever).
I'd wish you were starting on similar energy states, but thank you either way.
Awesome vid ! Would you mind explaining te concept of " cooking the engine " ? and why does it happen ? Love your channel , thanks.
Low airspeed + High engine power = Lots of heat building up in the coolant. Once it hits a certain point the coolant boils; that's what the bright-white clouds coming out of Sidewinder's plane was.
DCS overhypes this issue. I call it the Quitfire. It takes a lot of effort watching the gauges and flying at the same time.
This takes me back to when my Father would buy me these models in 1/48 scale
This channel is so fire 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
That's why a spitfire was never patrolling alone. A sitting duck until the 109 makes a mistake. Gotta have a wingman to make it harder on the opfor.
The BF-109 has such a powerful advantage tho. Once he starts diving to fire the spitfire is pretty much fucked unless he really times his maneuvers.
And here i am getting into a plane and wondering why i don't last more than 2 minutes there's so much into flying that i wasn't aware of
It’s not like just playing a game. You actually have to learn to fly the plane. That’s why it’s challenging fun.
Like others have mentioned you're drifting into IL-2 territory -- would be a nice change of pace every now and again.
I hope they model the Hellcat and the Zero hopefully to see a Pacific battle in the air
I remember reading a quote from a German pilot from the Battle of Britain proclaiming that a Spitfire never out turned him. And this in an "E" model. The Messerschmitt has a short stick, reducing leverage. Maybe all but the most determined decided not to turn with the feather light (on the stick) Spitfire.
These WW2 fights are awesome. Could you please duel phil style?
Wow that thing can turn!
Enjoyed that. The Spit is a favorite of mine. What map is that? I don't recognize that terrain.
Big fan of your channel and would love to collaborate with you on a historical dogfight/scenario.
Damn i love that new intro
That Spitfire looks absolutely stunning
EagleDynamics should add an option for replays where the other planes can be artificially color enhanced or pointed out with visual cues. It will help viewers on video hosting sites a ton.
I use to use this kind of tactic in IL2 against a friend of mine. I'd use an A5M or P.11 and kill him in anything he brought, because I'd just dodge his boom and zoom and counter-punch. It was fun times.
Best one was when I took his 262 with the A5M. Just took one hit to an engine.
Problem was he's a licensed pilot and I'm a car guy. I'm used to pushing machines to or past their limits (Sliding sideways? Meh.), and he's had it beaten into his head that design limits are hard limits.