Excited for this episode. I always find jam with my bullet then back off from there tom. Cortina has a great video on it. Lands can be inconsistent. Jam will always be more consistent. You essentially found the jam at your final measurement you came up with. You might be in the lands 100 or 200 thousandths already before you find jam. If works good for rifles like this where the lands aren't all the same length I watch you every Sunday like clock work. My gun pastor every Sunday. Thanks again Tom
Cortina also recommends full length resizing and has done videos of all the top prs shooters opinion and they all say that they full length size their brass
@Robert Mettler that doesn't apply to finding jam -20 thousandths. That's more. After you determine powder, you make sure your shoulder set back is consistent for your seating deoth test. If your base to shoulder measurements vary, that is also varying your seating deoth because the case is having to travel
Yep; once I started following Cortina's formula of "JAM minus 20 thousandths", my results have gotten way better and more consistent across all of the rifles I've used it on. As one person said, "Load to the rifle, not to the book".
CBSBASS, I didn't realize how good that group was until I measured it and then saw the video of the first 2 in the same hole. The velocities were slow but the rifle seemed to like it and for a target rifle that's all that matters.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving I finally got a Chrono. I got one of those Magneto speed sporters to try, though I'd rather nor have anything on the barrel. I'll probably only be loading 4 rounds and chrono the odd round for the speed for each load. Also got some of those Modified cases for the 222 (which still has not fired a round yet) and the 7X57 Featherweight. Now I'm kinda weirded out because that rifle has a REALLY deep throat. Bullets to the lands are only about halfway into the neck using the case length gauge. The .222 was fine. So, who knows how many Thousandths off the lands will seating depth be. 200 thou? It's going to be a lot of jump Heck I don't even know yet. It was like that with almost every bullet, 175 Grand Slam, 145 Grand Slam and 162 gr SST. I did use a comparator set. Anyway, I have plenty of powder space. :)😃
Nice! And you sir just made me feel bad for complaining about that little bit of cleaning I did in the break in video! LOL I just didn't realize how easy I had it until you said "black powder"!
Well done sir..on the corny set up.. Guy made n gave my uncle on A piece of twain about 15 feet long .loop knot over barrel n pull through chrony..Really helps line em fast.
Thanks for that tip Michael! I had thought about getting a laser bore sighting case that you put in the chamber and then hold up a board to see where it hit and use that to line up the chrono but that just seemed like more to keep up with. But a piece of twine sounds like the way to go.
I've encountered what you were talking about with the lands using the oal gauge. I like to call them ghost lands, because they are the slightest leftovers from where it was cut with a chamber reamer. Even tho it was reamed, there are still faint lands there sometimes in the throat and that's what causes those readings to jump around. They will disappear after it's had some rounds put thrugh it due to gas cutting.
Don't know if it was intentional but you didn't tell us the velocity of your 40 rounds. Either way, you peeked my math and scientific interests when you started measuring and planning the specifications for your rounds. I never hear other handloaders on YT talk about that. So I think that's a winning approach to achieving quality rounds by eliminating some variables. That was a great lesson to learn today. Thanks.
Thanks Cervus, and I believe you're right on it paying off in the end. I think this rifle is going to turn out to be a shooter and I have to say it's not doing bad now.
More on the long throated 7X57 FW. The Average base to ogive was 2.622 for the 145gr grand slam. The factory PPU Rifle line 140gr SP was 2.484 giving a difference of .138, so any factory rounds are gonna be well short for this rifle apparently.
Love the channel and this rifle. I have been considering the same rifle in 243 win. Would love to see what kind of accuracy I could squeeze out of the 243. Keep the videos coming.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving It looked pretty good after the break in. If I find a 243 I will keep you posted if I can get anything out of it. I would love to find one in 308
When using an OAL length gauge the only way to get consistent numbers is to jam the bullet into the lands. Yes you will have to use a rod to dislodge the bullet through the muzzle so I use a lond wood dowel.
Jim, for me the bore size seems to be the biggest factor in whether the bullets stick or not. The bigger the caliber the less likely it is to stick. But this was something new. I was putting a good bit of pressure on it but then when I added just a little more I could feel the bullet slide another .200". It took a lot more pressure than normal, and the bullet never stuck until I finally got past that tight spot and actually made it to the lands. And I'm sure you've noticed this but if you add to much pressure the lands will actually dig into the bullet and that will through the measurement off slightly.
It's looking like your rifle is liking the lower velocity ranges with the tighter groups at the beginning I have some rifles that perform best at lower velocities but it's is shooting alot better after the brak in
I use IMR 4350 in my 7x57. I found Speer SPBT 145 gr worked best for me. I meant to make that comment in your 7x57/257R video. This video just came up to see. I used the same steps decades ago. I didn’t catch what brass you were using. I was wondering how consistent the neck thickness is on that brass after you full length resized? Is it consistent or thicker one side? Do you turn your case necks? My problem is I don’t have a range to shoot within an hour or so. My Ruger 77 7x57 (73’) doubled as a 244 Rem with Shilen 1-12 barrel which stayed on the Lee Six glass stock unless I was going deer hunting. With the 7mm barrel I shot 1.75” @ 300 yards in a stiff wind. IMR 4350 about 47 gr and those Speer 145 SPBT. Early 90’s I picked up a Rem 700 mountain rifle in 7x57 and just seated the bullets back to factory specs and it shot under an MOA so didn’t even mess with that rifles load development. Thanks for sharing.
RE-22 has been awesome for long range wins for me in NRA LR, shooting 6.5/284 using the bullets you are using. A lot of X’s like shooting a laser in light wind.
I do John and I was just thinking about trying that next. My friend Joey said everyone says that's the best stick powder for 6.5CM? So we might as well check it and see.
@@TomRiverSimpleLivingTom also look for some RL16 too. My 6.5 CM in a 26” heavy barrel howa match rifle was 2804 fps with an SD of 3 fps. This was using Peterson small rifle primer brass with Cci 450 small rifle magnum primers, 140 ELD and only 41.5 grains of RL16. Also 41.5 gr H4350 with same bullet has been 1/2” accuracy in four different 6.5 CM rifles I’ve owned.
What is the standard OAL gauge referencing against, versus a fired case that more closely fits the chamber? I like cutting a slot in a fired case, chamber it with a bullet using the bolt, and measure length. I do this multiple times.
Looking good. What i like about your channel is your efficiency at collecting data. Ive watched a few people. It seems like they waste a lot of opportunity to collect data. Or end up having to spend twice the effort to get to the same ending. I guess that's good for making videos but it makes my brain hurt. In the past you mentioned request suggestions from us for future projects. Id like to put mine in the hat again if you are still looking. Its on the boss system from browning and winchester. The barrel tuning system/ muzzle break on some rifle they made in the 90s. I have the a bolt 2s . I was hoping someone would research if it works. Its not on RUclips at least nothing in depth. I figured try it screw tight. Try it off and try it at the recommended settings then make the fine adjustments to zero it in. Should produce some results. Just wondering if you'd be interested in that.
Thanks Brandon, and I'm actually planning on doing something on the BOSS. My friend Joey has a couple of rifles with that. For myself I don't care for it but in very special situations which is light rifles chambered in full size cartridges. For someone that needs a light hunting rifle and a powerful cartridge for bigger game I think it's a great option. And my biggest grip is the noise and my hearing is already not great. As far as the accuracy part I absolutely believe it works. So yes that is something I plan on doing a video on in the not to distant future. And if I ever run across a nice Featherweight with the boss for a good price I'll probably end up with one myself.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving they have a couple on gunbroker. A really nice super grade. A couple classic featherweight. If I run across one in left hand 270. Id jump on it my self. Ive seen a couple browning not sure they produced the 70 in a left hand with the boss. The 270 ab2 stalker i put together for my sun holds a great group with the 2 or 3 loads ive grabbed off the shelf but I never noticed any changes when making adjustments. I plan to take it to range now weather is getting good and try out what I previously mentioned to see if it makes a big difference. But again on the fine tune it did not. Now thats with a couple factors mainly a 3-9. May not have held on same spot every time. Plus my rest set up in the bag vise not the best. Ive switch to sand bags now a lot better set up. Any other rifle a .75 to a 1.0 group with first ammo off the shelf would pass in my book. Its only because of the boss I was hoping for sane hole group. However like I said it may have been working hard at it to produce them group each time. Maybe more then me in making them.
Chris, that possible but my guess that rifle just doesn't like the H4831 with this load? The velocities were all over the place and it seemed like a couple of those flyers also had some big changes in velocities but I'll have to go back and look at all of them to be sure. But several of those groups with the H4831 would have been outstanding if it weren't for the flyers. Mybe a primer change would make a big difference in that?
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving also remember with your bore with your lans not being even your going to have more fouling more flyers etc . I’m just saying to be wary this rifle started out as well as the 257 but you’re setting a “ Match / long range “ rifle you’ve helped me set up numerous rifles and do phenomenal work . I’d love to be your grandson or son inheriting rifles that shoot that good is hard to come by
308 Guy, I thought this one was going to be giving me fits when I first saw that bore! And that's part of what had me ticked off at this rifle. I was hoping for a nice simple setup when I started this project with no issues. But it seems to be settling in nice now? Good luck on yours and I'm guessing you've tried all of the standard stuff to get it shooting?
I have tried several bullets and powders, and it seems to like the lighter bullets a little better. 2.5-inch groups are about the best I've gotten so far. Factory loads are more in the neighborhood of 4 inches. I'm glad you got your gun shooting well. I was worried at first
Some really nice groups - Why not try a different bullet with those remaining unfired brass. May I suggest the Barnes 140 match burner or even some hornady eld match?
GoFish67, the 130g ELD match is next sense I have some on hand. I'm just curious as to how that bullet in the lighter loading shoots? If it shoots great then I might try to find some 140's and try them?
CBSBASS, I thought about trying that myself. He's a firm believer in it but I'm just not sure exactly why it would make a difference? I do believe that it can make a difference just because I trust what he says but I'm just not sure how? In my case I'm going to be neck sizing my brass after I get it fire formed and because I really don't under why neck turning makes a difference I don't know if that would make any difference on fire formed brass? That's definitely something I need to learn more about.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Uniform neck tension would make sense. But I'm really not a high volume shooter, nor do I compete at all. It's all I could to to bring myself to buy a chronograph. Let alone more tools . I just started annealing, but just use a torch and a drill and socket for that. I Think I will try to buy better brass. Even Cheap PPU at least anneals theirs. Can find any Remington or Winchester brass anyway, so I got some Norma at GRAFS & SONS for 7X57 on the way and it was not cheap. It was double the PPU they had but ran out of. :)
I've got a much shorter barreled 6.5 CM single shot that also really likes IMR 4350. I batched out my brass by weight and that shaved a considerable amount off my group sizes, might be worth weighing your brass once fireformed.
Marcus, that's one of the things I was planning on trying after I fire form it along with weighing out the bullets. I'm just curious as to how much of a difference it makes?
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Took alot of inconsistencies out of my groups. Where before I was getting between 3/4" to 1.25" groups, after I was getting very consistent 5/8" to 3/4" groups. I was using hornady brass from a few different boxes, and there was a few grains of difference between top and bottom weights.
I would agree in fact I spend a lot of time researching a good powder for a particular caliber. Once I decide on a particular powder and bullet (I usually already have a bullet I want to use) I then do a ladder test starting from my low point and work up to my high point in .2 grain increments. Shoot two shots at each increment watching for velocity flat spots and a preferred velocity (there may be multiple flat spots). By shooting two rounds at each increment I get some feed back on SD’s and ES’s not a lot but two shots do give some info. I then reload a batch at the flat spot on the curve at my preferred velocity and bingo I get my load. Really saves on ammo and time.
I am curious did you measure the ojive or the bullet tip as you will find more variations in the bullet tip length from the ojive as all tips are not placed in the bullet to perfection or made the same perfect shape,soft point you can see the deformity with the naked eye
I agree. Both 4350 and 4831 are too slow. Little too much muzzle flash increase as charges increase. Even R15 would be an idea, but really hard to find where I’m at.
Load development is trial and error 100%. I've sometimes found accurate loads by accident. Like a 270 Winchester that required over a 10th of an in bullet jump to the Lans for half inch groups. A Remington 742 automatic 30-06 that averaged 2in - 21/2 in groups with about any load I tried. Had a partial box of Speer flat nose 150gr. 30-30 bullets. Load them in the 30-06 on a wim. It strunk group size down to 1.5 in groups in that crooked shooten 30-06
Jay, it's amazing how many people are never going to believe that it's pure luck. Everyone wants some magical formula but it doesn't exist. Every rifle is as unique as a fingerprint and some are just fussy.
I used H4831sc with my initial load for my 260 Remington with a 120 grain ELD Match and it shot a .31 in group. Hodgdon data shows loads for H4831 and IMR4831 for the 6.5 CM but more with heavier bullets at 140gr and up.
Mark, I would have probably skipped over the 4831 had it not been for having a 28 inch barrel. And I was using the H4831 here, and you have no idea how many times I had to reshoot a couple of scenes because I kept saying IMR 4831! LOL
I had a killer load in a 260 rem with IMR 7828 so it never hurts to try some slower powders. With that 28” barrel I would be looking for some RL26 too Tom.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving I hadn't seen that to the other day and was curious id probably try it on a rifle if was in bad enough shape I may replace the barrel on but if I gun shoots 1-1.5 groups I wouldn't because we don't shoot long distances most of the time 100 yards is the max distance
Hello Mr River, can you suggest a 1st time buy for a new reloader for a decent Chronograph. One that can transmit back to my iPhone would be wonderful. Can something like this be had for under $400? Thanks Tom, God Bless
Mike, I'm sorry I took so long to get back to you but I was waiting for my friend Joey to get back. I have a basic Caldwell's and it works. And it works even better with an iPhone. The android app for it is notorious for not working and it doesn't work on my phone. But I like Joeys a lot better because it calls out the velocities, shows them on the display, works with an app, and has blue tooth. His is a pro chrono DLX and Midway has them for about $150.00. I can't say they are all good but I can say I have been very impressed with his and that's what I plan on getting next.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Thank you for the recommend Tom. Another popular sportsman on RUclips also suggested this very same model. Best wishes always my friend, God bless you and the Mrs. 😎👍
Tom, are you settling in on < 2700fps? I was thinking you would want at least 2800fps out of the CM. I mean, nothing wrong with 2600fps. I shoot that in my 6.5x55 swede and it is very accurate and recoil light. Just curious.
That's where it came out at with the load data. And the factory stuff with ball powder was just shy of 2800 fps. I should pick up another 50 fps or more after the first 100 rounds or so which would put me at 2750's with stick powder but that looks like where it's going to end up. And that's fine for target shooting. And keep in mind the 6.5x55 has more powder capacity and if you load it in a modern rifle it can out do the Creedmoor.
Imr4350 is one of those powders that just doesn't ever seem to do anything good for me. H4831 I have had some good luck with. When I tested my 6.5CM with factory stuff, Fed Premium w/130 Berger worked really well, .62" out of the gate. Used that seating length for Lapua Scenar L 130gr and H4350 and RL16, on the TAC A1, same resullts, with both powders. And that load worked in the T3X lite as well, same results with factory and handloads. Like it when it is a simple start like that. Some guns just about drive a guy around the bend til you hit on the right combo.
Dave, for me I have one rifle (my No1 in 270) that absolutely loves H4831 but other than that and IMR 4064 in my 308 all of them seem to love IMR 4350. It's funny how all seem to end up with different pet powders.
That's been my question, I see them on the Winchester site. But when I ask my dealer/s about it or most of the lever actions or Model 70s for that fact, I just get sideways looks and a hearty we'll do our best.
I mentioned New model 70s from Winchester to the folks at my gun store and they said it would take them about a year to get one. I'd guess it would take about the same for an 1885.
Methodical, Reflective, Critical Analysis, Patience and Sage Consideration......, all and all, PROFESSIONAL with intent to process... BRAVO-ZULU......
Excited for this episode. I always find jam with my bullet then back off from there tom. Cortina has a great video on it. Lands can be inconsistent. Jam will always be more consistent. You essentially found the jam at your final measurement you came up with. You might be in the lands 100 or 200 thousandths already before you find jam. If works good for rifles like this where the lands aren't all the same length
I watch you every Sunday like clock work. My gun pastor every Sunday. Thanks again Tom
Cortina also recommends full length resizing and has done videos of all the top prs shooters opinion and they all say that they full length size their brass
@@robertmettler1910 full length with .002" shoulder bump that is correct.
@Robert Mettler that doesn't apply to finding jam -20 thousandths. That's more. After you determine powder, you make sure your shoulder set back is consistent for your seating deoth test. If your base to shoulder measurements vary, that is also varying your seating deoth because the case is having to travel
Yep; once I started following Cortina's formula of "JAM minus 20 thousandths", my results have gotten way better and more consistent across all of the rifles I've used it on. As one person said, "Load to the rifle, not to the book".
The cortina jam method does work extremely well.
Such valuable information and it's very pleasant to hang out with you. Thank you sir.
And thank you for that Graeme.
I love IMR 4350. 2 in the same hole and what looked to be about a 1/2 to 3/4 inch group looked really good on that first batch
CBSBASS, I didn't realize how good that group was until I measured it and then saw the video of the first 2 in the same hole. The velocities were slow but the rifle seemed to like it and for a target rifle that's all that matters.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving I finally got a Chrono. I got one of those Magneto speed sporters to try, though I'd rather nor have anything on the barrel. I'll probably only be loading 4 rounds and chrono the odd round for the speed for each load. Also got some of those Modified cases for the 222 (which still has not fired a round yet) and the 7X57 Featherweight. Now I'm kinda weirded out because that rifle has a REALLY deep throat. Bullets to the lands are only about halfway into the neck using the case length gauge. The .222 was fine. So, who knows how many Thousandths off the lands will seating depth be. 200 thou? It's going to be a lot of jump Heck I don't even know yet. It was like that with almost every bullet, 175 Grand Slam, 145 Grand Slam and 162 gr SST. I did use a comparator set. Anyway, I have plenty of powder space. :)😃
Absolutely beautiful rifle Tom.
Thanks Joe!
Enjoying this series sir. Doing the same with my c sharps winchester 1885 high wall clone in 45-70 but with black powder for competition.
Nice! And you sir just made me feel bad for complaining about that little bit of cleaning I did in the break in video! LOL I just didn't realize how easy I had it until you said "black powder"!
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving not too bad in a single shot wiping between shots. In a lever gun black powder can be a nightmare.
Black Powder Silhouette look like it would be fun with such a rifle
Love your channel Tom. God bless you and yours.. Beautiful rifle you have there..
Well done sir..on the corny set up.. Guy made n gave my uncle on A piece of twain about 15 feet long .loop knot over barrel n pull through chrony..Really helps line em fast.
Thanks for that tip Michael! I had thought about getting a laser bore sighting case that you put in the chamber and then hold up a board to see where it hit and use that to line up the chrono but that just seemed like more to keep up with. But a piece of twine sounds like the way to go.
I've encountered what you were talking about with the lands using the oal gauge. I like to call them ghost lands, because they are the slightest leftovers from where it was cut with a chamber reamer. Even tho it was reamed, there are still faint lands there sometimes in the throat and that's what causes those readings to jump around. They will disappear after it's had some rounds put thrugh it due to gas cutting.
Looking forward to seeing the loads as you experiment a little more, but it seems you have a good start, great video, God Bless
Thanks Lee!
Don't know if it was intentional but you didn't tell us the velocity of your 40 rounds.
Either way, you peeked my math and scientific interests when you started measuring and planning the specifications for your rounds. I never hear other handloaders on YT talk about that. So I think that's a winning approach to achieving quality rounds by eliminating some variables. That was a great lesson to learn today. Thanks.
Thanks Tom, that is a lot of work, but will be very rewording in the end.
Thanks Cervus, and I believe you're right on it paying off in the end. I think this rifle is going to turn out to be a shooter and I have to say it's not doing bad now.
More on the long throated 7X57 FW. The Average base to ogive was 2.622 for the 145gr grand slam. The factory PPU Rifle line 140gr SP was 2.484 giving a difference of .138, so any factory rounds are gonna be well short for this rifle apparently.
Love the channel and this rifle. I have been considering the same rifle in 243 win. Would love to see what kind of accuracy I could squeeze out of the 243. Keep the videos coming.
Thanks Mtnfarmer, and I'm itching to see where this one ends up at? It's doing pretty good now and we're just getting started.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving It looked pretty good after the break in. If I find a 243 I will keep you posted if I can get anything out of it. I would love to find one in 308
I’ve always had great luck with the SST’s both for accuracy and on game. Just a hair above half MOA at 100 in my 264 win mag with the 140s
When using an OAL length gauge the only way to get consistent numbers is to jam the bullet into the lands. Yes you will have to use a rod to dislodge the bullet through the muzzle so I use a lond wood dowel.
Jim, for me the bore size seems to be the biggest factor in whether the bullets stick or not. The bigger the caliber the less likely it is to stick. But this was something new. I was putting a good bit of pressure on it but then when I added just a little more I could feel the bullet slide another .200". It took a lot more pressure than normal, and the bullet never stuck until I finally got past that tight spot and actually made it to the lands. And I'm sure you've noticed this but if you add to much pressure the lands will actually dig into the bullet and that will through the measurement off slightly.
It's looking like your rifle is liking the lower velocity ranges with the tighter groups at the beginning I have some rifles that perform best at lower velocities but it's is shooting alot better after the brak in
I use IMR 4350 in my 7x57. I found Speer SPBT 145 gr worked best for me. I meant to make that comment in your 7x57/257R video. This video just came up to see. I used the same steps decades ago. I didn’t catch what brass you were using. I was wondering how consistent the neck thickness is on that brass after you full length resized? Is it consistent or thicker one side? Do you turn your case necks? My problem is I don’t have a range to shoot within an hour or so. My Ruger 77 7x57 (73’) doubled as a 244 Rem with Shilen 1-12 barrel which stayed on the Lee Six glass stock unless I was going deer hunting. With the 7mm barrel I shot 1.75” @ 300 yards in a stiff wind. IMR 4350 about 47 gr and those Speer 145 SPBT. Early 90’s I picked up a Rem 700 mountain rifle in 7x57 and just seated the bullets back to factory specs and it shot under an MOA so didn’t even mess with that rifles load development. Thanks for sharing.
RE-22 has been awesome for long range wins for me in NRA LR, shooting 6.5/284 using the bullets you are using. A lot of X’s like shooting a laser in light wind.
I love RL-22 in the 6.5x55 Swede. H 4831 is a very close 2nd. Using 140 grain bullets from different manufacturers.
Great video!
Always a relaxing interesting video. Do you have any H4350 you can try?
I do John and I was just thinking about trying that next. My friend Joey said everyone says that's the best stick powder for 6.5CM? So we might as well check it and see.
@@TomRiverSimpleLivingTom also look for some RL16 too. My 6.5 CM in a 26” heavy barrel howa match rifle was 2804 fps with an SD of 3 fps. This was using Peterson small rifle primer brass with Cci 450 small rifle magnum primers, 140 ELD and only 41.5 grains of RL16. Also 41.5 gr H4350 with same bullet has been 1/2” accuracy in four different 6.5 CM rifles I’ve owned.
What is the standard OAL gauge referencing against, versus a fired case that more closely fits the chamber? I like cutting a slot in a fired case, chamber it with a bullet using the bolt, and measure length. I do this multiple times.
Looking good. What i like about your channel is your efficiency at collecting data. Ive watched a few people. It seems like they waste a lot of opportunity to collect data. Or end up having to spend twice the effort to get to the same ending. I guess that's good for making videos but it makes my brain hurt. In the past you mentioned request suggestions from us for future projects. Id like to put mine in the hat again if you are still looking. Its on the boss system from browning and winchester. The barrel tuning system/ muzzle break on some rifle they made in the 90s. I have the a bolt 2s . I was hoping someone would research if it works. Its not on RUclips at least nothing in depth. I figured try it screw tight. Try it off and try it at the recommended settings then make the fine adjustments to zero it in. Should produce some results. Just wondering if you'd be interested in that.
Thanks Brandon, and I'm actually planning on doing something on the BOSS. My friend Joey has a couple of rifles with that. For myself I don't care for it but in very special situations which is light rifles chambered in full size cartridges. For someone that needs a light hunting rifle and a powerful cartridge for bigger game I think it's a great option. And my biggest grip is the noise and my hearing is already not great. As far as the accuracy part I absolutely believe it works. So yes that is something I plan on doing a video on in the not to distant future. And if I ever run across a nice Featherweight with the boss for a good price I'll probably end up with one myself.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving they have a couple on gunbroker. A really nice super grade. A couple classic featherweight. If I run across one in left hand 270. Id jump on it my self. Ive seen a couple browning not sure they produced the 70 in a left hand with the boss. The 270 ab2 stalker i put together for my sun holds a great group with the 2 or 3 loads ive grabbed off the shelf but I never noticed any changes when making adjustments. I plan to take it to range now weather is getting good and try out what I previously mentioned to see if it makes a big difference. But again on the fine tune it did not. Now thats with a couple factors mainly a 3-9. May not have held on same spot every time. Plus my rest set up in the bag vise not the best. Ive switch to sand bags now a lot better set up. Any other rifle a .75 to a 1.0 group with first ammo off the shelf would pass in my book. Its only because of the boss I was hoping for sane hole group. However like I said it may have been working hard at it to produce them group each time. Maybe more then me in making them.
Check the barrel and rifling doesn’t seem as drastic but I believe a few flyers were due to the uneven lands
Chris, that possible but my guess that rifle just doesn't like the H4831 with this load? The velocities were all over the place and it seemed like a couple of those flyers also had some big changes in velocities but I'll have to go back and look at all of them to be sure. But several of those groups with the H4831 would have been outstanding if it weren't for the flyers. Mybe a primer change would make a big difference in that?
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving also remember with your bore with your lans not being even your going to have more fouling more flyers etc . I’m just saying to be wary this rifle started out as well as the 257 but you’re setting a “ Match / long range “ rifle you’ve helped me set up numerous rifles and do phenomenal work . I’d love to be your grandson or son inheriting rifles that shoot that good is hard to come by
My experience with 6.5 Creed, says there is H4350 and the also rans.
This is very interesting. I have a 6.5 creedmoor that's been giving me a fit on accuracy
308 Guy, I thought this one was going to be giving me fits when I first saw that bore! And that's part of what had me ticked off at this rifle. I was hoping for a nice simple setup when I started this project with no issues. But it seems to be settling in nice now? Good luck on yours and I'm guessing you've tried all of the standard stuff to get it shooting?
I have tried several bullets and powders, and it seems to like the lighter bullets a little better. 2.5-inch groups are about the best I've gotten so far. Factory loads are more in the neighborhood of 4 inches. I'm glad you got your gun shooting well. I was worried at first
Some really nice groups - Why not try a different bullet with those remaining unfired brass. May I suggest the Barnes 140 match burner or even some hornady eld match?
GoFish67, the 130g ELD match is next sense I have some on hand. I'm just curious as to how that bullet in the lighter loading shoots? If it shoots great then I might try to find some 140's and try them?
Gunblue also said he neck turns his brass. Not sure if he does it every time. I haven't been doing that.
CBSBASS, I thought about trying that myself. He's a firm believer in it but I'm just not sure exactly why it would make a difference? I do believe that it can make a difference just because I trust what he says but I'm just not sure how? In my case I'm going to be neck sizing my brass after I get it fire formed and because I really don't under why neck turning makes a difference I don't know if that would make any difference on fire formed brass? That's definitely something I need to learn more about.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Uniform neck tension would make sense. But I'm really not a high volume shooter, nor do I compete at all. It's all I could to to bring myself to buy a chronograph. Let alone more tools . I just started annealing, but just use a torch and a drill and socket for that. I Think I will try to buy better brass. Even Cheap PPU at least anneals theirs. Can find any Remington or Winchester brass anyway, so I got some Norma at GRAFS & SONS for 7X57 on the way and it was not cheap. It was double the PPU they had but ran out of. :)
I've got a much shorter barreled 6.5 CM single shot that also really likes IMR 4350. I batched out my brass by weight and that shaved a considerable amount off my group sizes, might be worth weighing your brass once fireformed.
Marcus, that's one of the things I was planning on trying after I fire form it along with weighing out the bullets. I'm just curious as to how much of a difference it makes?
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Took alot of inconsistencies out of my groups. Where before I was getting between 3/4" to 1.25" groups, after I was getting very consistent 5/8" to 3/4" groups. I was using hornady brass from a few different boxes, and there was a few grains of difference between top and bottom weights.
Sierra makes a fantastic paper puncher. SMK has always been a good bullet.
I’ve found that bullet weight/selection usually has more bearing on accuracy than powder. Also, good rifles aren’t fussy on either 🤠
I would agree in fact I spend a lot of time researching a good powder for a particular caliber. Once I decide on a particular powder and bullet (I usually already have a bullet I want to use) I then do a ladder test starting from my low point and work up to my high point in .2 grain increments. Shoot two shots at each increment watching for velocity flat spots and a preferred velocity (there may be multiple flat spots). By shooting two rounds at each increment I get some feed back on SD’s and ES’s not a lot but two shots do give some info. I then reload a batch at the flat spot on the curve at my preferred velocity and bingo I get my load. Really saves on ammo and time.
I am curious did you measure the ojive or the bullet tip as you will find more variations in the bullet tip length from the ojive as all tips are not placed in the bullet to perfection or made the same perfect shape,soft point you can see the deformity with the naked eye
He measured the ogive. He had his comparator on his calipers
@@sergeantdwz5783 I was watching on my phone and couldn't tell if it was a comparetor or just the flat base thank you for clearing it up for me
I’ve had a lot of success with 130s and imr4350, but 140 SMK is pretty proven!
You should try W748 powder in it...
I agree. Both 4350 and 4831 are too slow. Little too much muzzle flash increase as charges increase. Even R15 would be an idea, but really hard to find where I’m at.
Load development is trial and error 100%. I've sometimes found accurate loads by accident. Like a 270 Winchester that required over a 10th of an in bullet jump to the Lans for half inch groups. A Remington 742 automatic 30-06 that averaged 2in - 21/2 in groups with about any load I tried. Had a partial box of Speer flat nose 150gr. 30-30 bullets. Load them in the 30-06 on a wim. It strunk group size down to 1.5 in groups in that crooked shooten 30-06
Jay, it's amazing how many people are never going to believe that it's pure luck. Everyone wants some magical formula but it doesn't exist. Every rifle is as unique as a fingerprint and some are just fussy.
Very interesting, thank you. Normally, I would think IMR 4831 would be a little too slow for a smaller case such as the 6.5 mm Creedmoor.
I used H4831sc with my initial load for my 260 Remington with a 120 grain ELD Match and it shot a .31 in group. Hodgdon data shows loads for H4831 and IMR4831 for the 6.5 CM but more with heavier bullets at 140gr and up.
Mark, I would have probably skipped over the 4831 had it not been for having a 28 inch barrel. And I was using the H4831 here, and you have no idea how many times I had to reshoot a couple of scenes because I kept saying IMR 4831! LOL
I had a killer load in a 260 rem with IMR 7828 so it never hurts to try some slower powders. With that 28” barrel I would be looking for some RL26 too Tom.
Have you ever messed with the tub's fire forming bullets
I have not Gary. I've heard some say it helped problem bores but I couldn't ever bring myself to try it.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving I hadn't seen that to the other day and was curious id probably try it on a rifle if was in bad enough shape I may replace the barrel on but if I gun shoots 1-1.5 groups I wouldn't because we don't shoot long distances most of the time 100 yards is the max distance
Load development is very costly in this current situation, but once you find it, the cost is worth the result
Hello Mr River, can you suggest a 1st time buy for a new reloader for a decent Chronograph. One that can transmit back to my iPhone would be wonderful. Can something like this be had for under $400? Thanks Tom, God Bless
Mike, I'm sorry I took so long to get back to you but I was waiting for my friend Joey to get back. I have a basic Caldwell's and it works. And it works even better with an iPhone. The android app for it is notorious for not working and it doesn't work on my phone. But I like Joeys a lot better because it calls out the velocities, shows them on the display, works with an app, and has blue tooth. His is a pro chrono DLX and Midway has them for about $150.00. I can't say they are all good but I can say I have been very impressed with his and that's what I plan on getting next.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Thank you for the recommend Tom. Another popular sportsman on RUclips also suggested this very same model. Best wishes always my friend, God bless you and the Mrs.
😎👍
Try IMR4895 I e had good lokk with it too in the Creedmoor
Try the hornadys n fire form on
Michael, I was thinking the same thing along with trying H4350 with the Sierras.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving That a good ideal.. Oh so many recipes to try n oh so little time n piggy bank busted
Tom, are you settling in on < 2700fps? I was thinking you would want at least 2800fps out of the CM. I mean, nothing wrong with 2600fps. I shoot that in my 6.5x55 swede and it is very accurate and recoil light. Just curious.
That's where it came out at with the load data. And the factory stuff with ball powder was just shy of 2800 fps. I should pick up another 50 fps or more after the first 100 rounds or so which would put me at 2750's with stick powder but that looks like where it's going to end up. And that's fine for target shooting. And keep in mind the 6.5x55 has more powder capacity and if you load it in a modern rifle it can out do the Creedmoor.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving yes it can but very pleased with the light recoil and accuracy I get at advertised velocities of 2650fps.
Imr4350 is one of those powders that just doesn't ever seem to do anything good for me. H4831 I have had some good luck with. When I tested my 6.5CM with factory stuff, Fed Premium w/130 Berger worked really well, .62" out of the gate. Used that seating length for Lapua Scenar L 130gr and H4350 and RL16, on the TAC A1, same resullts, with both powders. And that load worked in the T3X lite as well, same results with factory and handloads. Like it when it is a simple start like that. Some guns just about drive a guy around the bend til you hit on the right combo.
Dave, for me I have one rifle (my No1 in 270) that absolutely loves H4831 but other than that and IMR 4064 in my 308 all of them seem to love IMR 4350. It's funny how all seem to end up with different pet powders.
A little faster powder needed. Both are too slow is seems.
I believe you have a shooter
Where the heck you even find a new 1885?!
That's been my question, I see them on the Winchester site. But when I ask my dealer/s about it or most of the lever actions or Model 70s for that fact, I just get sideways looks and a hearty we'll do our best.
I mentioned New model 70s from Winchester to the folks at my gun store and they said it would take them about a year to get one. I'd guess it would take about the same for an 1885.
@@willrowell3218I called Winchester last summer about what was going on with the Model 70. They said they had a barrel shortage.
VARG, I got extremely lucky and stumbled across this one locally.