Rewatching this excellent video, it is hard to believe it's 20 years since Leslie Gratham returned to the show to reprise the role of the iconic Den Watts. I remember the excitement of his return and the Christmas Day episode where an on-the-run Phil returns to the square seeking revenge.
I really appreciate your analysis. I just spluttered out my drink when L Grantham referred to Wendy Richards as a wanker! My friends and I often call women wankers or tossers, equality of insults.
These videos are excellent! I eagerly anticipate more! I do have a suggestion for an episode, Barbara Windsor's typecasting before Peggy Mitchell and how Eastenders revitalised her career and she arguably became the biggest star?
A very interesting video about the return of the legendary character. I remember the excitement about his return in 2003 and became fascinated by the actor and character after viewing a show on BBC detailing his original stint on the show and Grantham's back story. The original return from October until Christmas 2003 was very good but after he departed and returned around March of the following year the show was going through a bad patch and of course the character was overshadowed by the real life scandal Grantham was embroiled in. The writers also destroyed his character after the revelations about the sex scandal were exposed turning him into a bitter nasty character for a spell. Despite this I thought the last number of months of the character on screen were entertaining with Grantham's acting impressive and I was disappointed that the character was killed off in his brilliant final episode. I have read Grantham's book and agree with you about the lack of detail about his departure from the show.
He kills somebody they let him stay. He does nothing illegal online and they give him the boot. Good old beeb. Den and Kathy’s resurrection were both plausible if you squint abit. 😂
I’d love to see a video on Dennis Rickman. He was complex, well written and well acted and because of that he became an icon despite only being on the show for three years. On that note - I always struggled with the way Den treated Dennis - I mean, I know he was always a selfish arrogant ass that only cared for his ‘princess’ but I’ll always remember how vile that scene was when he accidentally discovered that Dennis was sexually abused (which was an awful thing to joke about anyway) and then proceeded to laugh in his sons face about it? And then use it to control him? Idk, maybe it was a step to far for me. Even for ‘dirty den’ Great video!
Me and my nana both said the same about Den, in his original run he was always a Jack the Lad but in his second they made him a outright evil and you can tell Grantham didn't want to be there anymore
When big Den returnsed he were only only agree to return so they could finally kill him off Den. Come back with a different personality compared to his 1st four years in the soap in 85 until 89. He came back with a chip on his shoulder and so much more nasty. It was in the cards he turn against young Dennis it ashame while it would been great to see them got on and even leave the square together. Den second deaths didn't work with me while I stopped watching months before he were killed off but killing Yong Dennis off was more nonsense as he were a great character in the soap. He find fame in many tv series since his exit from EE his got a main character in a casualty now
Great video, I was 13 when Den returned to Eastenders, although I wasn’t born when he was originally in the show I knew of him and Angie and loved the first couple of months of Den returning and framing Phil. At the time I always saw Den as the toughest character in the show. He was Den Watts king of Walford after all. Despite Den clearly being fairly tough and could jump over the bar to throw out a few trouble makers in his heyday, realistically he wasn’t in the same league as maybe Phil and certainly not Grant or Dennis physically. But that is a testament to Leslie Grantham as an actor, he made us believe Den always had everything under control.
I was 12 when he returned and like you I found his return exhilarating, a programme aired about the character the Sunday night before his return episode and I became fascinated by the character and the actor Leslie Grantham. The original 3 months till Xmas day 03 were very good with Den departing for Spain. His return around March the following year was not as good and the show was not great for most of that year with the writers turning him into a hate figure after the Grantham webcam scandal was exposed. I thought the character was very good in his final months till his departure apart from the sick-impregnating Zoe plot and Den was excellent behind the bar always able to break up fights and keep order.
Thinknit died in the 2000s when the storyline focused too much on the Mitchell brothers. My mum, who watched all soaps, stopped watching it then. It hot on her nerves and told me to turn it over.
As people say the return up until the end of 2003 was brilliant the feud with Phil and finding out about Dennis involvement in jack Dalton murder really was top notch .After that down hill just shame we never got to see den v grant in 2005
I actually for the most part enjoyed the direction they took Den during the last few months of his second stint. It was like they were showing us what a bastard Den had been all along. I don't understand the claims that he was a completely different character than he was in the 80s. You have to remember this was a guy who impregnated his 16 year old daughters best friend, slept around behind his wife's back which led to her becoming an alcoholic and having a nervous breakdown, was mixed up in organised crime. Den was always pretty reprehensible, just viewers forgave him easier back in the 80s because he was younger and had more charm. Him manipulating his sons girlfriend into sleeping with him seemed pretty in line with the character to me. The only crutch was the weird obsession he seemed to develop for Sharon. Back in the 80s he really didn't seem to care too much about Sharon and fobbed her off by spoiling her, it was Angie who she was always closer to and the relationship between her and Den was frosty and at times nonexistent.
I disagree that the original den was never as nasty bastard when he were in it in the 80s he cared for the people in the square. The second time, he started of ok, but after setting Phil up then I turned off watching it because he was character because to self-centred & and uncaring, I'm rewatching the old once on amazon prime and I liked his characters then better then his second time. I think they did that because den only agreed to return to be finally killed off. He said as much in a documentary, saying I agree to return so they can kill me off for good
When they lost, arguably, the biggest character of the 90's, Grant Mitchell, I think the show actually became stronger for a while. But a huge part of how they compensated for him, was by making Phil doubly as prominent and, effectively, becoming both the Mitchell brothers rolled into one. So with the imminent departure of Steve McFadden, they were kind of losing a character worth double the value. Bringing Den back to take over the lead was really the strongest hand they could possibly have played. Initially, I found the writing for Den's return to be some of the best the show had ever had. But after the storyline of Phil's departure wrapped, it got lazy and boring. The two things which I believe should never have happened, were putting Den back in the Vic, and giving him a new wife. I can understand why they did both those things, but I think the future of Den Watts was in him having escaped from the shackles of his past. I think that the scandal involving Grantham's antics on the webcam were not the dominant cause of him being sacked. I believe that if the BBC and EastEnders had wanted rid solely because of that, he would not have returned following his suspension. I remember reading rumours of Steve McFadden not wanting to work with Leslie Grantham again. And, although I obviously cannot prove nor disprove this rumour, It seemed to me that the producers were faced with a "me or him" situation concerning Phil's return and valued Phil over Den, given that Grantham had made himself unpopular with both his colleagues and the viewers. Coupled with declining ratings throughout 2004, and the opportunity to reunite the Mitchell brothers upon Phil's return, it was a bit of a no brainer to get rid of Den.
The Dennis / Sharon / Zoe thing really dragged after a while. There were a lot of bad storylines in the second half of the berridge era though - ferreriras, Andy hunter, Kate’s nail bar etc. he had to go really though and they gave him a proper exit.
Disagree. Eastenders biggest missed opportunity was not keeping Leslie Grantham on the show a while longer to allow for a Den v Phil rematch and a feud with Grant Mitchell.
@@shahzadayub7191 A feud with Grant would’ve been. And the character of Grant was relatively milder in the mid 2000’s, so wasn’t willing to use his fists as readily.
The best thing in my opinion was when they introduced kirk to the fold 'Allen Dish'. He played out OK until they choose to write him out after his affair with Dr Leg 😡😡😡
@nhailstone The Ferrarias kidney plot was a borefest and dragged on too long. I know they were on last minute rewrite due to the father of the family disappearing because the actor got deported. They should've recasted him because I didn't realise or care he was missing for weeks.
Love your vids! I'd love to see you do a video on Steve Owen, and the feud between him and Phil as well. It's a feud that the show has been tyring to replicate ever since.
Great video will u make one about EastEnders during 2003-2005 it was really in trouble with lots going on behind the scenes leading up to 20th anniversary
Why controversial, he was the best character in the golden era of EastEnders, his return was a master stroke. Sadly short lived due to being setup by a vile journalist who tricked him into sending her private pictures. If she did that now, SHE would have broken the law. sadly, instead of standing by him the then idiot controller of dram kicked him out.
I lost count with how many times Mike Reid would be on the front cover of Radio Times with the headline "Frank's Back" He would buzz off and return like the leaves on a tree or whenever they needed a ratings lift, so much so that I would always think...."And..what's new?"
There are literally so many episodes I would love to see from this Channel. I must’ve watched this video ten times. Could you please do one on the return of the Mitchell brothers and their altercation with Johnny Allen. In my personal opinion… the absolute peak of Eastenders.
I’ll say this for Dens resurrection. They put a huge amount of effort into giving him a family, so links to the square, and trying to make his return from the dead remotely plausible. You could potentially accept Den faked his death and fled, the Firm knew but helped to fake it to save face, and he never returned due to fear - and not wanting Sharon to be hurt by it. Plus, when he died, he’d hurt everyone he cared about - it was easier for him to just disappear and leave it all behind. What was the reason lovable Kathy put her sons through the agony of thinking their beloved mother had died? An insurance scam - and that’s it. I stopped watching after that. Dreadful.
People can fake their deaths, it’s not completely implausible. The Firm ended up killing the gangster Vinnocombe who was meant to get Den bumped off and bricked his teeth out so he couldn’t be identified. By the time the body was found it was so badly decomposed, so Sharon presumed it was Den.
Kathy's offscreen death was actually entirely political, there was talk of bringing the character back from South Africa but the executive producer at the time didn't get along with the actor and apparently had a bustup with her husband, that's why she was killed off as a way of bringing back Ben. Her return included a lot of handwaving and, in my opinion, far more egregious canon rewriting with Kathy's husband being Sharon's biological father, than what was written for Den's return.
This channel is absolute quality. Can ya upload another one, mate.. I need my fix 🤪 Seriously, I'd love a vid on the _'Who Shot Phil?'_ saga. It transcended pop culture. I was actually in a club (possibly underage 🤣) and they shut the music off and turned the TVs on, so we could find out whodunnit! The Richard Hillman storyline was a belter as well. _"You're Norman Bates with a briefcase!"_ 😂 Iconic.
Without wishing to go too deep into this, the turn of the millennium did seem to have a psychological effect on many aspects of life, soap operas included. People felt the need to change things and try new things for the sake of it. Some of this was successful, others not so successful.
I think this return would have been an even bigger disaster if it weren't for the decision to introduce Tracy Ann Oberman as Chrissie. She is a remarkably good actress & she held her own in every scene she was in, even when the scripts & the continuity began to fall apart around the time of her & Leslie's departure. Chrissie constantly felt like a clock counting down to a massive explosion & eventually she did detonate & took Den with her. Despite that, she was funny & likeable & the audience sympathised with her enough that you kind of wanted her to get away with all her horrible deeds. Despite being on screen for just 2 years, she created an iconic character, one that is still loved by fans of EE today and is subject to constant rumours of her imminent return (something I hope never actually happens, as they'd ruin her).
16:54 What about the Paradise Club on BBC1? That was quite a big programme, on the main channel, after the 9 o'clock news and co-starring with Don Henderson who was a household name at the time too. Ran for a couple of series.
Phenomenal. I’ve read Leslie Grantham’s autobiography which was very gritty. Also love Anita Dobson in the part of Angie Watts. Thanks for these videos. Very enjoyable 😊😊
I think had Den returned in 1991 it would have been way too soon, the Mitchell brothers had essentially replaced Den at that point, and had become just as big in the 90s as Den had been in the 80s, there wouldn’t have been enough room for them at that point, by the 00s however it was the right time but we did miss out on Den vs Grant and Peggy, the people who had hurt Sharon the most
Funny how when Den came back, it felt like the Mitchells were coming to an end and it was the Watts era again. Phil had left and Peggy had left that same year. I wish her and Den had met, very missed opportunity there.
@@j04370859 yeah for much of the mid 2000s from 2003 to 2006 it was a Mitchell-less era, they returned in late 2005, but they didn’t really dominate again until Ronnie & Roxy arrived in 2007
The start of Den's return was great, then after the stuff with Phil was complete they didn't really know what to do with him. After returning from his suspension things picked up again and made for great viewing. The aftermath of his murder made 2005 a classic EE year, for me the very last classic EE year. The downfall of Chrissie coupled with the Mitchell brothers returning was amazing. After Dennis Rickman died, EE kinda died with him for me, 2006 was a boring year for the show. Things picked up again in the late 2000s before becoming a pale imitation of itself after the stupid baby swap storyline. I don't even watch the show anymore, but this was a great video and i'm glad Den's return does get some praise. As it seems the given thing now just to write it off as a disaster. I personally believe that the plan was always to kill Den off for the 20th anniversary, but if he was to stay on a little while longer he could've taken on Peggy, Mitchell brothers and Johnny Allen. That would've been very interesting to see.
Hey, I came from reddit. I only intended to watch 2 minutes and ended up watching the whole thing. Fantastic video! Your next one should be Frank Butcher or Steve Owen. Them and Den are Eastenders best ever 3 characters IMO. Still never replaced
Don't care what anyone says Den Watts and Johnny Allen were the best characters on eastenders they need to make a review on the phill and Johnny freud also Richard Hillman was corries best villion
I LOVED Den's return! Who cares about his opinion on other cast members if that's how he felt, he was entitled to say it. You think these casts have all been sweetie, darlings to or about each other all the time? The sex scandal? Again, think he was just the only one to get caught out by entrapment! Icky, yes. Just him? HA! The Yewtree one is the only thing I'm curious about... I hope it's not true but you never know with these allegations being fired everywhere at everyone...
The problem with what he said about the cast, and the sex scandal, was that it deeply affected how the rest of the cast viewed him. Leslie Grantham wasn't the huge draw for the soap anymore because he had been replaced by many other iconic, irreplaceable characters (Kat Slater, Alfie Moon, Phil Mitchell, Pat Evans) who apparently threatened to quit the show after Leslie Grantham's scandal was revealed.
I’ve watched the Bet Lynch return and this one. They’re informative, interesting and well researched, keep going there’s definitely a lot of mileage in the subject matter.
I hate how doing 10 years for murder is seen by these actors as "served his time". 10 years for killing an innocent young man by shooting is a being let off lightly. It's not as if he did a robbery or something.
I’ve subscribed. Great idea for a channel! Some ideas for future videos: Brookside - the incest plot between Nat and Georgia Brookside - how Lindsey Corkhill went from downtrodden chip shop worker to gun-toting, lesbian gangster. Brookside - the death of Matthew and Emily Farnham
Tony Jordan's quote is truly ridiculous. He didn't 'believe' in Den anymore once Leslie's webcam exploits were revealed? What exactly did he think 'Dirty' Den meant in the first place? Idiotic.
The phil Mitchell thing pissed me off everyone wanted to see put Mitchell in his place but the ridiculous scene wuth phil Mitchell beating up Den with his arm in a sling is pathetic I've broken my arm and no Way i could beat someone up with one arm. And I'm an ex boxer
You seem to overlook that anything can happen in the fictional world. Take Superman, for instance; he flies around Metropolis with a cape on his back, saving people. Phil Mitchell is considered a toughened criminal, so he could effortlessly fight someone with one arm while the other is in a sling.
Phil is hardman and he was in his prime in 2003. One arm was enough for Den, who wasn't really a fighter. I loved Phil punching Dennis, because redeemed him after cowardly getting those guys on Dennis.
Den watts vs Phil Mitchell was the greatest set up ever. Two iconic characters from different eras going against each other was great to watch. Leslie and Steve absolutely smashed it when they appeared on screen together. However when Steve McFadden left the show went downhill. And Leslie wasn’t used properly in 2004 and they sadly killed him off which was the biggest mistake ever. He forever will be the king of Walford and I’m glad Phil is still alive to keep the show relevant these days. Rip Leslie 💯 A truly great actor.
i’d love you to do a study on the rise and fall of emmerdale being the young person’s soap in the 2010s because i was one of their teenage viewers and it was truly remarkable. 21 year olds with fan accounts for different characters and waiting outside the studio to meet the actors. i don’t think we’ll see anything like it again for a long time
I'm thoroughly enjoying your videos, and I've never seen any of these soaps. That's how good your videos are, I don't need to have seen them, they are interesting on their own.
I'm so glad this channel exists. This is such an insightful video and I think has really hit upon area of great interests to I reckon quite a lot of people
They shouldn't never force den to return unless he wanted to in a documentary he said he returned only if they killed him off. His return we're wrong because one he was not the dirty den zas he were in 1985 until he leaving in 1989 in his 1st time in the doap he were not so much as nasty he do anything for anyone in the square borrowing money and protect the square from the firm getting Protection racket money stopped 🎉from his friends and also had to do a job in return for the firm by forcing him to go abroad & money laundering for them. Also he got revenge on James willmott brown by getting his pub burn down for rape of karthy. After je were killed off. His return he were not the den he was in the 80s he were nasty cruel and hated his son also name den. He become all for himself and walk over everyone then they killed him him off the most boring way. He should sorted philemon out them decide the square not his home anymore made it up with his kids then gave the pub back to Phil and left. I think the Internet thing were a excuse to get rid of him or den only stayed to ve killed of for good in front of every everyone they should never force him back unless he wanted to return then they cou could d the original den characters back. The most ignoring part were they decide to kill young den off too that werexa miatake
The bigger contoversy is that Leslie Grantham murdered a German taxi driver whilst trying to rob him and only served 10 years, that's scandelous and the German's family have always said this.
Such legendary character, could we get a video about the mitchell family, starting with the matriarch that is the late great Peggy Mitchell (Barbara Windsor)
I wish Den had stayed longer it would have been cool to see him with Peggy, Archie Mitchell and Derek Branning. Also by that time Den would have been in his sixties/seventies so he 2ould really have to use his mind more to catch up. Also if he was there longer and Phil comes back there would be cool to see their relationship evolve to where it an uneasy truce they both come to a respect but also hate each other and will backstab each other. There's moments where they will both join force to take down a threat like Derek Branning or Aiden Mcguire but will also use these people to get one over on the other.
Loved it! That was awesome, I knew about the murder thing, but I wasn't sure of the details. Just like the others it really covered the details well, without becoming a slog. Tell you one I'd love to watch, would be the whole hand under the patio stuff, from Brookside! I remember my best mate at the time really had a thing for Anna Friel, so I got into it. I knew bits about the father, but it wasn't like you could just look something up back then! Keep the videos going man, loving them! 💙
Rewatching this excellent video, it is hard to believe it's 20 years since Leslie Gratham returned to the show to reprise the role of the iconic Den Watts. I remember the excitement of his return and the Christmas Day episode where an on-the-run Phil returns to the square seeking revenge.
Such a shame he was killed off cause of the scandal.
@@leejones8582 I was 13 when he was killed off in February 2005 and was very disappointed to see him depart the show.
@@leejones8582Apparently it was actually coz Grantham was insulting the producers and the other actors like Pauline, Alfie, Kat
A study on the fall of Brookside would be interesting.
I really appreciate your analysis. I just spluttered out my drink when L Grantham referred to Wendy Richards as a wanker! My friends and I often call women wankers or tossers, equality of insults.
These videos are excellent! I eagerly anticipate more! I do have a suggestion for an episode, Barbara Windsor's typecasting before Peggy Mitchell and how Eastenders revitalised her career and she arguably became the biggest star?
Sound could be improved but i agree. Perhaps a better narrator voice, but hes okay.
@@MrLondonGo The voice is fine, just need a mic guard to stop the accidental breaths. It's like the 3rd vid, the fella's doing awesome
@@carlhammond8527 agreed looking promising
@@MrLondonGo I watch, well try to watch another series on here. The lad talks like a weather man and it's so off putting, lol.
Your script and research is brilliant. Constructive criticism: please speak more slowly and clearly.
the media should have left grathams family alone . preying on a 9 year old boy with downs syndrome is little better then what gratham did
A very interesting video about the return of the legendary character. I remember the excitement about his return in 2003 and became fascinated by the actor and character after viewing a show on BBC detailing his original stint on the show and Grantham's back story. The original return from October until Christmas 2003 was very good but after he departed and returned around March of the following year the show was going through a bad patch and of course the character was overshadowed by the real life scandal Grantham was embroiled in. The writers also destroyed his character after the revelations about the sex scandal were exposed turning him into a bitter nasty character for a spell. Despite this I thought the last number of months of the character on screen were entertaining with Grantham's acting impressive and I was disappointed that the character was killed off in his brilliant final episode. I have read Grantham's book and agree with you about the lack of detail about his departure from the show.
I was surprised he stuck around in 2004 looking at the scripts and storylines
He kills somebody they let him stay. He does nothing illegal online and they give him the boot. Good old beeb. Den and Kathy’s resurrection were both plausible if you squint abit. 😂
Kathy was the final straw
@@tomhiggins6542 the final straw for me were the endless serial killers.
@@hugoboss5895 it's been bad yrs tbf.
@@tomhiggins6542 yes mate you’re right. I’ve given up on it and Corrie.
GOT IT. BIG RED FACE.
As someone who watched alot of soaps growing up in the early 2000s this channel is amazing. Glad I found it
Your videos are so well researched and seriously presented, really a pleasure to watch and listen to.
I’d love to see a video on Dennis Rickman. He was complex, well written and well acted and because of that he became an icon despite only being on the show for three years.
On that note - I always struggled with the way Den treated Dennis - I mean, I know he was always a selfish arrogant ass that only cared for his ‘princess’ but I’ll always remember how vile that scene was when he accidentally discovered that Dennis was sexually abused (which was an awful thing to joke about anyway) and then proceeded to laugh in his sons face about it? And then use it to control him? Idk, maybe it was a step to far for me. Even for ‘dirty den’
Great video!
Me and my nana both said the same about Den, in his original run he was always a Jack the Lad but in his second they made him a outright evil and you can tell Grantham didn't want to be there anymore
When big Den returnsed he were only only agree to return so they could finally kill him off Den. Come back with a different personality compared to his 1st four years in the soap in 85 until 89. He came back with a chip on his shoulder and so much more nasty. It was in the cards he turn against young Dennis it ashame while it would been great to see them got on and even leave the square together. Den second deaths didn't work with me while I stopped watching months before he were killed off but killing Yong Dennis off was more nonsense as he were a great character in the soap. He find fame in many tv series since his exit from EE his got a main character in a casualty now
I’d love to see one on Dennis too. Definitely my favourite EE character ever. He was so complex, with so many layers. Loved the Shannis storyline too.
Great video, I was 13 when Den returned to Eastenders, although I wasn’t born when he was originally in the show I knew of him and Angie and loved the first couple of months of Den returning and framing Phil. At the time I always saw Den as the toughest character in the show. He was Den Watts king of Walford after all. Despite Den clearly being fairly tough and could jump over the bar to throw out a few trouble makers in his heyday, realistically he wasn’t in the same league as maybe Phil and certainly not Grant or Dennis physically. But that is a testament to Leslie Grantham as an actor, he made us believe Den always had everything under control.
I was 12 when he returned and like you I found his return exhilarating, a programme aired about the character the Sunday night before his return episode and I became fascinated by the character and the actor Leslie Grantham. The original 3 months till Xmas day 03 were very good with Den departing for Spain. His return around March the following year was not as good and the show was not great for most of that year with the writers turning him into a hate figure after the Grantham webcam scandal was exposed. I thought the character was very good in his final months till his departure apart from the sick-impregnating Zoe plot and Den was excellent behind the bar always able to break up fights and keep order.
Eastenders used to be really good in the 90s and 00s, its a pile of crap today.
Thinknit died in the 2000s when the storyline focused too much on the Mitchell brothers. My mum, who watched all soaps, stopped watching it then. It hot on her nerves and told me to turn it over.
As people say the return up until the end of 2003 was brilliant the feud with Phil and finding out about Dennis involvement in jack Dalton murder really was top notch .After that down hill just shame we never got to see den v grant in 2005
I actually for the most part enjoyed the direction they took Den during the last few months of his second stint. It was like they were showing us what a bastard Den had been all along. I don't understand the claims that he was a completely different character than he was in the 80s. You have to remember this was a guy who impregnated his 16 year old daughters best friend, slept around behind his wife's back which led to her becoming an alcoholic and having a nervous breakdown, was mixed up in organised crime. Den was always pretty reprehensible, just viewers forgave him easier back in the 80s because he was younger and had more charm. Him manipulating his sons girlfriend into sleeping with him seemed pretty in line with the character to me. The only crutch was the weird obsession he seemed to develop for Sharon. Back in the 80s he really didn't seem to care too much about Sharon and fobbed her off by spoiling her, it was Angie who she was always closer to and the relationship between her and Den was frosty and at times nonexistent.
I disagree that the original den was never as nasty bastard when he were in it in the 80s he cared for the people in the square. The second time, he started of ok, but after setting Phil up then I turned off watching it because he was character because to self-centred & and uncaring, I'm rewatching the old once on amazon prime and I liked his characters then better then his second time. I think they did that because den only agreed to return to be finally killed off. He said as much in a documentary, saying I agree to return so they can kill me off for good
What a brilliantly researched video! Thank you!
When they lost, arguably, the biggest character of the 90's, Grant Mitchell, I think the show actually became stronger for a while. But a huge part of how they compensated for him, was by making Phil doubly as prominent and, effectively, becoming both the Mitchell brothers rolled into one. So with the imminent departure of Steve McFadden, they were kind of losing a character worth double the value. Bringing Den back to take over the lead was really the strongest hand they could possibly have played. Initially, I found the writing for Den's return to be some of the best the show had ever had. But after the storyline of Phil's departure wrapped, it got lazy and boring. The two things which I believe should never have happened, were putting Den back in the Vic, and giving him a new wife. I can understand why they did both those things, but I think the future of Den Watts was in him having escaped from the shackles of his past. I think that the scandal involving Grantham's antics on the webcam were not the dominant cause of him being sacked. I believe that if the BBC and EastEnders had wanted rid solely because of that, he would not have returned following his suspension. I remember reading rumours of Steve McFadden not wanting to work with Leslie Grantham again. And, although I obviously cannot prove nor disprove this rumour, It seemed to me that the producers were faced with a "me or him" situation concerning Phil's return and valued Phil over Den, given that Grantham had made himself unpopular with both his colleagues and the viewers. Coupled with declining ratings throughout 2004, and the opportunity to reunite the Mitchell brothers upon Phil's return, it was a bit of a no brainer to get rid of Den.
The Dennis / Sharon / Zoe thing really dragged after a while. There were a lot of bad storylines in the second half of the berridge era though - ferreriras, Andy hunter, Kate’s nail bar etc. he had to go really though and they gave him a proper exit.
Disagree. Eastenders biggest missed opportunity was not keeping Leslie Grantham on the show a while longer to allow for a Den v Phil rematch and a feud with Grant Mitchell.
@@shahzadayub7191 A feud with Grant would’ve been. And the character of Grant was relatively milder in the mid 2000’s, so wasn’t willing to use his fists as readily.
The best thing in my opinion was when they introduced kirk to the fold 'Allen Dish'. He played out OK until they choose to write him out after his affair with Dr Leg 😡😡😡
@nhailstone The Ferrarias kidney plot was a borefest and dragged on too long. I know they were on last minute rewrite due to the father of the family disappearing because the actor got deported. They should've recasted him because I didn't realise or care he was missing for weeks.
Love your vids! I'd love to see you do a video on Steve Owen, and the feud between him and Phil as well. It's a feud that the show has been tyring to replicate ever since.
Can you do a video on Nick Cotton ?
Great video will u make one about EastEnders during 2003-2005 it was really in trouble with lots going on behind the scenes leading up to 20th anniversary
The downfall of Bruce Jones would be a great video.
I love these videos! There's no other channels that makes videos like this on soaps.
Thanks so much! I’ve still got lots of ideas so while progress might be slower than I like I’ll still be making it 😊
Can you do a video about Martine McCutcheon being killed off and the controversy around that.
Excellent Doctor Who reference 👍
Why controversial, he was the best character in the golden era of EastEnders, his return was a master stroke. Sadly short lived due to being setup by a vile journalist who tricked him into sending her private pictures. If she did that now, SHE would have broken the law. sadly, instead of standing by him the then idiot controller of dram kicked him out.
Really good video. I look forward to many more
I lost count with how many times Mike Reid would be on the front cover of Radio Times with the headline "Frank's Back" He would buzz off and return like the leaves on a tree or whenever they needed a ratings lift, so much so that I would always think...."And..what's new?"
I liked his return with good storylines. Shame it went downhill towards the end
Just when I thought every youtube niche had been filled haha. Keep em coming!
There are literally so many episodes I would love to see from this Channel. I must’ve watched this video ten times. Could you please do one on the return of the Mitchell brothers and their altercation with Johnny Allen. In my personal opinion… the absolute peak of Eastenders.
Sound quality on this was awful. Shame, cos you've obviously done a lot of research on the subject.
I’ll say this for Dens resurrection. They put a huge amount of effort into giving him a family, so links to the square, and trying to make his return from the dead remotely plausible.
You could potentially accept Den faked his death and fled, the Firm knew but helped to fake it to save face, and he never returned due to fear - and not wanting Sharon to be hurt by it. Plus, when he died, he’d hurt everyone he cared about - it was easier for him to just disappear and leave it all behind.
What was the reason lovable Kathy put her sons through the agony of thinking their beloved mother had died? An insurance scam - and that’s it. I stopped watching after that. Dreadful.
Her husband Gavin was a nasty piece of work, perhaps she had little choice.
People can fake their deaths, it’s not completely implausible. The Firm ended up killing the gangster Vinnocombe who was meant to get Den bumped off and bricked his teeth out so he couldn’t be identified. By the time the body was found it was so badly decomposed, so Sharon presumed it was Den.
When Kathy was killed off (off screen) she was really dead. Now today they've done it again with Cindy, it's starting to get unrealistic.
Kathy's offscreen death was actually entirely political, there was talk of bringing the character back from South Africa but the executive producer at the time didn't get along with the actor and apparently had a bustup with her husband, that's why she was killed off as a way of bringing back Ben. Her return included a lot of handwaving and, in my opinion, far more egregious canon rewriting with Kathy's husband being Sharon's biological father, than what was written for Den's return.
@@Onmysheet "Witness protection" is the cheapest, laziest way of bringing back a dead character, I hate it.
This channel is absolute quality. Can ya upload another one, mate.. I need my fix 🤪
Seriously, I'd love a vid on the _'Who Shot Phil?'_ saga. It transcended pop culture. I was actually in a club (possibly underage 🤣) and they shut the music off and turned the TVs on, so we could find out whodunnit!
The Richard Hillman storyline was a belter as well. _"You're Norman Bates with a briefcase!"_ 😂
Iconic.
Without wishing to go too deep into this, the turn of the millennium did seem to have a psychological effect on many aspects of life, soap operas included. People felt the need to change things and try new things for the sake of it. Some of this was successful, others not so successful.
such an underrated channel, excited for your future stuff!! were you ever a watcher of emmerdale at all?
Only found your Bet Lynch video yesterday but I love these videos so much! I never knew how much I needed video essays about UK soaps! ♥
I love the fact you have included the nods from Doctor Who & Gavin and Stacey 💙💙 look forward to your next video! 🎉
I think this return would have been an even bigger disaster if it weren't for the decision to introduce Tracy Ann Oberman as Chrissie. She is a remarkably good actress & she held her own in every scene she was in, even when the scripts & the continuity began to fall apart around the time of her & Leslie's departure. Chrissie constantly felt like a clock counting down to a massive explosion & eventually she did detonate & took Den with her. Despite that, she was funny & likeable & the audience sympathised with her enough that you kind of wanted her to get away with all her horrible deeds. Despite being on screen for just 2 years, she created an iconic character, one that is still loved by fans of EE today and is subject to constant rumours of her imminent return (something I hope never actually happens, as they'd ruin her).
This was a great breakdown and I love you perspective, I hope you do more of these videos on Eastenders. There’s so much there to cover
I love these videos! There's no other channels that makes videos like this on soaps.
Excellent documentary. Keep up the great work. Please do one about Family Affairs on channel 5 who tried to kill off a full soap family for views.
16:54 What about the Paradise Club on BBC1? That was quite a big programme, on the main channel, after the 9 o'clock news and co-starring with Don Henderson who was a household name at the time too. Ran for a couple of series.
True it mostly gets maligned, mostly remembered for backstage antics and the dreadful Get Den Watts line. It did have it's moments though.
Phenomenal. I’ve read Leslie Grantham’s autobiography which was very gritty. Also love Anita Dobson in the part of Angie Watts. Thanks for these videos. Very enjoyable 😊😊
Leslie Grantham was amazing yeah he had baggage but man the guy could act he was the best eastenders ever had well twice
Another fantastic video! Thank you
I think had Den returned in 1991 it would have been way too soon, the Mitchell brothers had essentially replaced Den at that point, and had become just as big in the 90s as Den had been in the 80s, there wouldn’t have been enough room for them at that point, by the 00s however it was the right time but we did miss out on Den vs Grant and Peggy, the people who had hurt Sharon the most
Funny how when Den came back, it felt like the Mitchells were coming to an end and it was the Watts era again. Phil had left and Peggy had left that same year. I wish her and Den had met, very missed opportunity there.
1994 would have been interesting
@@j04370859 yeah for much of the mid 2000s from 2003 to 2006 it was a Mitchell-less era, they returned in late 2005, but they didn’t really dominate again until Ronnie & Roxy arrived in 2007
@@paulhynes170 yeah 1994 was when they wanted Den & Angie to return to help Sharon
I genuinely thought this was being narrated by Matthew Kelly 🤣🙌🏼
Have you ever heard that before from anyone?
His return was an absolute legend!
The start of Den's return was great, then after the stuff with Phil was complete they didn't really know what to do with him. After returning from his suspension things picked up again and made for great viewing. The aftermath of his murder made 2005 a classic EE year, for me the very last classic EE year. The downfall of Chrissie coupled with the Mitchell brothers returning was amazing. After Dennis Rickman died, EE kinda died with him for me, 2006 was a boring year for the show. Things picked up again in the late 2000s before becoming a pale imitation of itself after the stupid baby swap storyline.
I don't even watch the show anymore, but this was a great video and i'm glad Den's return does get some praise. As it seems the given thing now just to write it off as a disaster.
I personally believe that the plan was always to kill Den off for the 20th anniversary, but if he was to stay on a little while longer he could've taken on Peggy, Mitchell brothers and Johnny Allen. That would've been very interesting to see.
I think Den would have aligned with Johnny if he hadn’t been killed off.
Hey, I came from reddit. I only intended to watch 2 minutes and ended up watching the whole thing. Fantastic video!
Your next one should be Frank Butcher or Steve Owen. Them and Den are Eastenders best ever 3 characters IMO. Still never replaced
Thanks so much! I would like to make a video about Frank Butcher but I’d need a proper angle first I think.
@@soapstudy4669
Fair point! I still think his last episode in the square with the infamous Peggy slaps is top 3 episodes ever.
@@WakaWaka2468 yeah, Frank and Pats affair is one of my favourite soap storylines. Hard to find online though!
@@soapstudy4669
DailyMotion has it surely?
I would love for you to talk about controversial issue-based or cancelled storylines! ❤️ Pretty please?
Can we have a discussion on who's the best soap villain oat and why
Nice content but the audio levels are all over the place 😮
great video been watching old episodes they were such quality I too have great fondness and nostalgia for his return it was a good time for the soap
He wasn't Sharon's biological dad in eastenders so how exactly do you skirt around when it's a no blood relation
A genuinely tremendous video there. Keep up the good work.
Thanks
Ash From Watching Walford
Don't care what anyone says Den Watts and Johnny Allen were the best characters on eastenders they need to make a review on the phill and Johnny freud also Richard Hillman was corries best villion
I loved how you wrote this.
I LOVED Den's return! Who cares about his opinion on other cast members if that's how he felt, he was entitled to say it. You think these casts have all been sweetie, darlings to or about each other all the time?
The sex scandal? Again, think he was just the only one to get caught out by entrapment! Icky, yes. Just him? HA!
The Yewtree one is the only thing I'm curious about... I hope it's not true but you never know with these allegations being fired everywhere at everyone...
The problem with what he said about the cast, and the sex scandal, was that it deeply affected how the rest of the cast viewed him. Leslie Grantham wasn't the huge draw for the soap anymore because he had been replaced by many other iconic, irreplaceable characters (Kat Slater, Alfie Moon, Phil Mitchell, Pat Evans) who apparently threatened to quit the show after Leslie Grantham's scandal was revealed.
@MrWillyMrBrightside then quit? Look at everything nowadays! They've even got Stacey doing cam work on the show now, for goodness sake.
I love your channel please do more videos love how you Do these soap Deep Dives there Great subscribed
his son is in call the midwife
I’ve watched the Bet Lynch return and this one. They’re informative, interesting and well researched, keep going there’s definitely a lot of mileage in the subject matter.
I hate how doing 10 years for murder is seen by these actors as "served his time". 10 years for killing an innocent young man by shooting is a being let off lightly. It's not as if he did a robbery or something.
Well they've been gloryfing and endorsing thugs and murderers for year's by constantly letting the Mitchell characters get away with it all the time.
It was manslaughter at best he did rob the guy yeah but he didn't mean to kill him.
Imagine the dead victim seeing all these fools say how he did his time so we welcomed him with open hands
CAN YOU PLAY THE EASTENDERS VIDEOS I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THEM. THANK YOU 😊❤❤
I’ve subscribed. Great idea for a channel!
Some ideas for future videos:
Brookside - the incest plot between Nat and Georgia
Brookside - how Lindsey Corkhill went from downtrodden chip shop worker to gun-toting, lesbian gangster.
Brookside - the death of Matthew and Emily Farnham
Also the Emmerdale plane crash jn 1993
Tony Jordan's quote is truly ridiculous. He didn't 'believe' in Den anymore once Leslie's webcam exploits were revealed? What exactly did he think 'Dirty' Den meant in the first place? Idiotic.
The phil Mitchell thing pissed me off everyone wanted to see put Mitchell in his place but the ridiculous scene wuth phil Mitchell beating up Den with his arm in a sling is pathetic I've broken my arm and no Way i could beat someone up with one arm. And I'm an ex boxer
You seem to overlook that anything can happen in the fictional world. Take Superman, for instance; he flies around Metropolis with a cape on his back, saving people. Phil Mitchell is considered a toughened criminal, so he could effortlessly fight someone with one arm while the other is in a sling.
Phil is hardman and he was in his prime in 2003. One arm was enough for Den, who wasn't really a fighter. I loved Phil punching Dennis, because redeemed him after cowardly getting those guys on Dennis.
Suggestion: could you make about Eldorado? it's fascinating saga in British soap history. Love the content keep it up
It’s been done, there is a whole four part about another BBC failure on RUclips!
Lesley Grantham was amazing 👏 in eastenders he was the true hard man of Albert Square
Great vid! Great work! Subscribed!
Please keep making these videos they are fascinating
Den watts vs Phil Mitchell was the greatest set up ever. Two iconic characters from different eras going against each other was great to watch. Leslie and Steve absolutely smashed it when they appeared on screen together. However when Steve McFadden left the show went downhill. And Leslie wasn’t used properly in 2004 and they sadly killed him off which was the biggest mistake ever. He forever will be the king of Walford and I’m glad Phil is still alive to keep the show relevant these days. Rip Leslie 💯 A truly great actor.
i’d love you to do a study on the rise and fall of emmerdale being the young person’s soap in the 2010s because i was one of their teenage viewers and it was truly remarkable. 21 year olds with fan accounts for different characters and waiting outside the studio to meet the actors. i don’t think we’ll see anything like it again for a long time
Emmerdale was at it's peak around 2005 - 2011.
I'm thoroughly enjoying your videos, and I've never seen any of these soaps. That's how good your videos are, I don't need to have seen them, they are interesting on their own.
Dirty Den returning from the dead in 2003 was ridiculous Know one ever asked for any details
Of what happened
I'm so glad this channel exists. This is such an insightful video and I think has really hit upon area of great interests to I reckon quite a lot of people
This was is when I stopped watching Eastenders.
They shouldn't never force den to return unless he wanted to in a documentary he said he returned only if they killed him off.
His return we're wrong because one he was not the dirty den zas he were in 1985 until he leaving in 1989 in his 1st time in the doap he were not so much as nasty he do anything for anyone in the square borrowing money and protect the square from the firm getting
Protection racket money stopped 🎉from his friends and also had to do a job in return for the firm by forcing him to go abroad & money laundering for them. Also he got revenge on James willmott brown by getting his pub burn down for rape of karthy.
After je were killed off.
His return he were not the den he was in the 80s he were nasty cruel and hated his son also name den.
He become all for himself and walk over everyone then they killed him him off the most boring way. He should sorted philemon out them decide the square not his home anymore made it up with his kids then gave the pub back to Phil and left. I think the Internet thing were a excuse to get rid of him or den only stayed to ve killed of for good in front of every everyone they should never force him back unless he wanted to return then they cou could d the original den characters back. The most ignoring part were they decide to kill young den off too that werexa miatake
The bigger contoversy is that Leslie Grantham murdered a German taxi driver whilst trying to rob him and only served 10 years, that's scandelous and the German's family have always said this.
Such legendary character, could we get a video about the mitchell family, starting with the matriarch that is the late great Peggy Mitchell (Barbara Windsor)
You may be in luck…
@@soapstudy4669 :D....yayyy
it killed EastEnders dead
I love these videos you put together, subscribed..
Another masterpiece. These videos are so absorbing. Thank you.
It never crossed my mind til 32:15 that Angie was actually Angela.
I was absolutely glued to that video, thanks.
I wish Den had stayed longer it would have been cool to see him with Peggy, Archie Mitchell and Derek Branning. Also by that time Den would have been in his sixties/seventies so he 2ould really have to use his mind more to catch up. Also if he was there longer and Phil comes back there would be cool to see their relationship evolve to where it an uneasy truce they both come to a respect but also hate each other and will backstab each other. There's moments where they will both join force to take down a threat like Derek Branning or Aiden Mcguire but will also use these people to get one over on the other.
Great watch. Love the execution. 🎉
Never commented on a youtube channel before. This is my new favourite channel omg.
I mean they brought Cindy and Kathy back from the dead who’s next Roxy and ronnie
i Dont think he was acting ,,,,,,He was playing himself
Dirty den legend
Loved it! That was awesome, I knew about the murder thing, but I wasn't sure of the details. Just like the others it really covered the details well, without becoming a slog. Tell you one I'd love to watch, would be the whole hand under the patio stuff, from Brookside! I remember my best mate at the time really had a thing for Anna Friel, so I got into it. I knew bits about the father, but it wasn't like you could just look something up back then! Keep the videos going man, loving them! 💙
Honestly absolutely class these videos! Love it
I've found my new fave channel haha. Would love reg uploads
Another great video.
I hope you make more of these! I enjoy eastenders more than i should!
It was great when Den came back
he was right about wendy Richards
I think with Leslie Grantham it was a case of karma catching up with him after what happened in Germany. The Paradise Club he was in was pretty good.