Botched Go-Around! French Valley NTSB Prelim
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- Опубликовано: 19 июл 2023
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Can’t imagine what these poor kids went through and will have to go through , sincere condolences to them and the family
Since he was a new pilot, he had most likely done a LOT of go arounds in training. What probably caught him by surprise was the weight of the kids in the back seat of the airplane (aft CG) made the nose come up easier and more than he was accustomed to and caught him unaware as he tried to control it.
good point
I think this is key
Very good point, I bet a dollar to a doughnut that he didn't do a Weight and Balance calculation for the airplane load and current wx conditions. I am retired now and I did a lot of instruction in the 172, I would have my students do the W+B and Take off and Landing dis calculations for every flight and have that paperwork with them if they are going to fly with me. I don't know what is going on in flight training these days since I have been pretty much out of that for quite some time. I retired from 135 work. My guess is that the Stick and Rudder skill set that was drilled into my head when I was a Student pilot back in the early 1970s has gone by the wayside. If I was looking into this accident, I would want to look over his logbook and I would be talking to the flight instructor or instructors that taught him and the examiner that did the check ride for the certificate. Something strikes me as not right here.
Terrific point. Makes a ton of sense. Condolences to his family and wishing those little ones a speedy recovery.
@@GeorgeSemel that's how I learned in the 1980s. When I first took my family on a flight I did the W+B 15 times over the night before.
My heart goes out to his children. There's a lesson in this for inexperienced pilots.
There have been so many lessons for inexperienced pilots to learn from but sadly so many of them just don’t know what they don’t know. The Killing Zone is a great book for those who want to learn about the people who are most likely to get themselves into situations they don’t come home from.
And experienced pilots alike
I think this has less to do with overall experience than attention to detail and this generation of pilots not being properly taught. God knows I made some goofs in my career, but it has never gotten to the point of bending metal or hurting myself or others. We all were inexperienced pilots at one point and still are for certain kinds of operations. An airplane or a helicopter will bite you and hard if you let it.
I'm not sure that having an aircraft full of children is appropriate when doing touch and goes
@@GeorgeSemel Dunno if getting Boomer about it is a part of it
There's also the factor of weight and balance. I remember renting a C-172 and flying my parents for a $100 hamburger, and I had only been flying mostly solo to that point. I was very surprised by how differently the airplane handled with 2 other adults on board. Even my car handles differently with passengers than it does with me alone. Physics...
Worth mentioning, and remembering, is that the runway in front of you on a go around is golden, fly the whole runway while climbing and cleaning up. Everything in front of you is free and clear, no need to start a turn immediately after the GoAround.
I agree 100%!
I don't think he intended to turn....just didn't manage it well.
@@blancolirio Wings rocking indicates an incipient stall situation.
@@blancolirio 35 years later and I can still hear my instructor. "Right rudder Mark, right rudder ,maintain 68! "
@michaelspunich7273 because that would be incorrect. Maintain 55 means "give the appropriate inputs and trim for that speed, while being sure that you are climbing"
Since "push the column" would not work in all situations, they cannot publish that as the correct procedure. Reconfigure trim instead would be a good and valid addition.
Training is what teaches you to be careful about your angle of attack, it is not written in the procedures :(
Because the C172 is a high wing design, the thrust line is considerably below the center of drag, ESPECIALLY when full flaps are deployed. Some older C172s have flaps that can be deployed to a maximum of 40-Deg, a setting that provides more drag than lift. I know from personal experience that adding full power to go-around under this configuration when trimmed for landing requires TREMENDOUS forward pressure on the yoke to maintain and increase airspeed! If you don't get your pitch under control and your flaps promptly retracted to 20-Deg, you're going to pitch up into a very nasty departure stall close to the deck.
When I learned to fly in 1970, my instructor sprung a couple go arounds with full flaps on me -- I can still remember those exercises with all of the forces at play at once -- I am sure this guy had his hands full. New pilot and all of the family on board in the plane is a recipe for disaster.
I did my 172 rating on one with 40 flaps. With full flaps out it wouldn't climb no matter what you did. I think they later limited it to 30 degrees so people wouldn't get in trouble.
@@chrisnielsen9885 Good to know, in case i get in one with 40 flaps. Just not gonna fly with 40 degrees flaps in high density with a full family.
@@kimskislalom 40 degrees is all drag on a 172, great fun but just gotta watch out for go arounds, I remember it being really hard work to keep the nose level once you put full power on, gotta hold it level with one hand and trim the crap out of it with the other
@@chrisnielsen9885 Yes, I had to much trim up and when I did a go around I really had to push forward on the yoke. I am prepared for that. I am getting some good training as a student pilot. I do not want to be the student pilot getting my PPL with the least amount of hours. It takes lots of practice.
@@kimskislalom I'm not sure having lots of hours as a student is necessarily what you want - I remember the very first flight once I got my license I learned more than I did in 20 flights as student.
The time I came closest to hurting myself in an airplane was during a touch and go with full flaps in a 150H (they go to 40 degrees). I had maybe 25 hours total time, and forgot to retract to 20 degrees before applying power to get back airborne. I had to push basically as hard as I could to prevent it from getting away from me. These Cessnas will bite you!
I have gotten accustomed to landing with only 20 degrees of flaps for that purpose unless I'm practicing short fields. My instructor gave me that advice.
When I was a new PPL on a go-around I forgot carb heat cold and almost lost the airplane. I remembered a few seconds before it was too late. Maybe this guy did the same except with flaps. Sorry for his children. He is beyond feeling now.
Later as a CPL, I gave sight-seeing rides for children at my airport and it's a scary experience being responsible for the safety of other people's children.
I’m a recreational day VFR pilot (weekend warrior if you will) and my instructor knew that’s all I desired to be. 2 things he instilled into me. Every approach is a go-around with the option of landing if it works out. Given I won’t fly often, go with an instructor at least every 6 months - or I’ve not flown for 8-12 weeks. After 6 years of flying I still can’t fault that advice in my circumstances.
"Every approach is a go-around with the option of landing if it works out." A philosophy in life best taken, as well as when piloting.
No shame in a go around! I do them anytime something isn't looking or feeling right, but always am rehearsing it in my mind while I'm landing. I've done two so far this year. Condolences to the family.
I did a go around after I bounced a landing at yolo county airport the other day. You really gotta be ready to hold that yoke forward when you put the power to it and watch the speed. And don’t hesitate to make the decision to go around.
Fly safe everyone.
Local F70 pilot, just a heads up Juan, the ADSB shows him going into a field, but there are new buildings pretty much right where the ADSB drops. He didn’t get quite so far left of the runway as google would make you think.
I remember a student pilot doing a lesson with his kids in the back seat. It was a C172 with the flaps that went to 40°. He was practicing landings at a difficult runway and attempted to go around. Neither the student nor the instructor got the flaps going to 30 or 20. With all that drag, they crashed. Yoke ended up going through the student's chest and killed him. Instructor and kids survived, but the flight school policy changed after that to not allow anyone who didn't need to be there. I remember someone else saying the instructor got lost on a cross country when the instructor was a student. I flew with this instructor a few times for instrument proficiency and a few other things, and I wasn't impressed. Get references on your instructor if you can.
During my training on a 150, with my first go-around, I was surprised how much I had to push to keep the nose down.
Me to. Especially with full flaps. Attitude is everything. Just do what it takes to maintain attitude and the airspeed will fall into line.
On my first solo, without the 200 pound instructor, that plane went up like rocket. "Whoa!" is what I said, ha.
Thanks Juan. As a rusty pilot who just finished my flight review, this is a great reminder. My instructor had me practicing go arounds.
Please don't take anyone with you if you are a new /marginal pilot. You are still learning and will be for the rest of your flying experience. When I got my wings/USAF, my squadron commander told my graduating class that, if we survived our first 500 hundred hours , we would have a good chance of having a long career. I made it through 47 years of professional flying but always was ready for the "what if" moment.
Same thing happened to me on my first solo in a 172. I was wondering why that damn thing doesn't climb after a touch and go. I'll never forget the adrenaline rush while I was looking for a place to put it down. Luckily, I realized early enough that I had forgotten to go flaps 10. I remember that I never allowed myself to pull on the elevator too much and to keep the panic at a minimum.
There was another fatal 172 go-around with full flap last year with a student or new pilot I believe. A problem is there is nothing in the pilot's sightline to indicate flap deployment, you have to look down to see the position of the flap lever. Did a full flap takeoff in a Piper Arrow at night with only me as pilot and partial fuel. Didn't complete my pre-takeoff check because of a distraction from the tower guy on the radio. Good climb rate at 1500 FPM, but was wondering why the airspeed indicated only 65, with no lights on the cabin floor area, the black flap handle is invisible in the dark. At a safe altitude, I brought the power slowly back to idle, and sorted things out, no damage to the flap linkage, I think I was a test pilot there for about 2 minutes.
carb heat can do similar. people do a go-around and forget the carb heat and can't figure out why it climbs so poorly.
A c172 N has 40 degrees of flaps available and climbs just fine (at sea level) in my experience with just me in it - very forgiving airplane.
@@TM-529 That's not what I'm hearing from everyone else on here.
PS, I had this happen on a go around. I forgot to take out the first flaps and the plane just did not want to climb very well and I was at sea level with partial fuel. It was just me and I do not weight much. All of this in my favor for my bad mistake. I was nursing the airspeed indicator and the plane. I had to like almost level out. It was below 60 could be like 50. It was slow flight alright. I dare not turn crosswind until I get this sorted out. I could stall. I kept straight till I got the airspeed up. It was like a big argument with the airspeed indicator. Finally I started getting airspeed and I could slowly take the rest of the flaps out. I then turned crosswind and then to Downwind and so on. I landed, taxied back and was scared as hell. Student pilot learning. That bird taught me a lesson that day. Whew. On a go around, after pushing the throttle / carb you NEED TO TAKE OUT ONE SET OF FLAPS IMMEDIATELY. and of course watch your angle of attach and airspeed / and use right rudder. I will never forget.
Those poor kids...
Spoiler 🙄
Is that a lolz??
Maybe this will be not well received, and the local dragons will start lighting me up, but here goes.
Everything you said about procedures and training was correct and to the point. However, I think you might have considered the precise situation the pilot was in, from an awareness standpoint.
The runway at French Valley Airport is @ 6000 feet long. If the graphical representation correctly placed the spot where the pilot bounced the landing and initiated a go around, there was still 5000 feet of runway in front of him. That's a LOT of runway. Perhaps a knee jerk reaction (panicky?) to go around was not the optimal course of action. When landing on a 2000 - 2500 foot runway, a botched approach or bounced landing may well be a reason to IMMEDIATELY go around. But this was not the case. This was not even a long landing (the last third of the runway would still have been 2000 feet. Lots of 2000 foot runways out there). I believe he should have (calmly) stabilized the aircraft after bouncing, and (calmly) set her down.
My thoughts EXACTLY.
If you are confident of your skills, mother nature will prove you wrong at some point. Always be vigilant and prepared. I was in a recruit class of the New Mexico State Police decades ago. We were proud to score amazingly high scores in our shooting skills. Then we were sent to a remote location on an Air Force base and we went toe to toe with a seal team with paint balls. They were bullet charged with paint that hurt a bit. To put it mildly, we got slaughtered. Never get too proud or confident...Also remember, dispatch or a phone call is not going to save you. Only you can save you.
SEAL Teams don't do paint ball.
Maybe they were Para-Rescue. USAF.
You explain things so well, Juan. I feel like if more pilots spent more time just watching your videos, there would be less accidents.
I instructed at a short strip mostly in C152 and C172. With 40 degrees of flap down, the pitch up in the 172 on a go-around is massive, particularly at low approach speeds and required a strong arm to keep the nose at climb out speed. Inexperienced pilots always had a hard time holding it while also finding the flap lever and the trim wheel.
Oh my goodness. My heart goes out to the children. Deepest sympathy.
Rest in Peace.
Growing up in an aviation family I nearly lost both my parents a few times to accidents. I cant imagine how much worse that would have been if I had been in the helicopter at the time. Feel so bad for this guy’s kids.
Quite often. Very luckily for me, it is one of the few maneuvers that come natural to me, in small aircraft.
Flaps gear flaps flaps:
One notch of flaps immediately, gear if complex, (check speed) flaps, (check speed) flaps. No rush, be sure to be climbing, avoid excessive pitch up (helps me that I don't trim too extremely, and I flare "by hand"), follow runway heading potentially stepping to the opposite side of pattern.
Completely different situation, but the quick retraction of flaps in go-around reminds me of the Cirrus at Houston Hobby, the poor young woman who kept being given different runways and long instructions, but who at the end of the day crashed because in all three go-around she was taking all notches of flap away way below clean stall speed
Agree, and this is worth reading a few times.
Dan Gryder has talked about the botched go around at some length.
My father crashed in a botched go around. He was fine...the airplane (170A) was a total loss.
Fortunately his instructor had taught him how to crash.
He also had just about all of his hours in the 150/172 type aircraft.
Ok, bs no CFI teaches you how to crash. Stop pretending
What’s the proper way to crash?
I had a bad porpoise landing last spring that really caught me by surprise. After two bounces I initiated a go around. As soon as I gave it full power, it straightened right out and I was able to slowly retract the flaps, keeping a close eye on air, speed and pitch angle. A couple years ago I had some gusting turbulence while in my flare and I did i a go around on that one, which resulted in a normal landing. Definitely a skill set we all need to stay sharp on and think about when we are on final.
French Valley is a strange airport. On many occasions, in both single and multi-engine airplanes and helicopters I have encountered extreme downdrafts and wind-shear while on final at the approach end of 18. There are frequent, very squirrelly winds on that particular threshold. One needs to be really observant and attentive. It’s a great airport at which to get hurt.
That's because of the terrain near finial. PS, I landed there and did not notice the downdraft. Less windy day.
WOW description said everything. Poor kids. Father... RIP
This one gets me. My family had a 172 back in the late 1970's. I can't recall how long it took my dad to be confident enough to take us along.
There is no substitute for experience. Juan's analysis is of course spot on. I think it notable that (the PIC) it seems recently earned his PPL. To me, as tempting as it is to take your family for a flight… it is taking on risks that the pilot may not have full appreciated.
I think it important to note the difference between Competency and Proficiency. As a newly licensed pilot you have demonstrated competency at one time that deems you safe to operate an aircraft. Proficiency comes with time in the cockpit, under various conditions and hopefully with other aviators who are there to mentor you.
I work as a PCP (Health Care Provider) and with my teen patient’s, they get the naval aviators (USCG Helo Pilot who became a nurse practitioner... I wanted to be a flight surgeon but fell short 😞) perspective on driving and what that new DL actually means. I encourage those teens to have a “check ride” with their parents once a month until they accumulate 500 hours of driving time. You are at your safest right after you are licensed but statistically that declines within your first 10 hours and does not start to return until you get close to 800 hours or so.
For those who are new to flying, strongly consider your risks before you take a friends or family flying. Consider what your options are for the flight profile and compare different options in the flight plan to help reduce the risk associated with the flight. Perhaps having 3 kids with you might not have been a great plan. Maybe take one kid at a time and remain in the local bounce pattern. You cannot under estimate the stress you might experience when all your kids are in the plane and something does not go according to plan. Consider asking your flight instructor to fly with you prior to that flight and make sure you are at your “best game.” There is a process of "differential risk management" I have cultivated from the process of "Differential Diagnosis" used in health care. The goal... fewer GA accidents. I am willing to share it with those who have an interest.
Be kind to yourself as you build flight time; give yourself time to build the hours, the depth and scope of experience. Deal with a close call or two before you think about taking other along for that “awesome ride” in an airplane. My youngest wants to be a pilot, fly helicopters like his old man and I have 2000 hours of flight time much of which is in the dark and stormy with the USCG. He will be trained by someone other than me, he will use a graduated system where he can nurture the skills he will need to make sure he comes back alive from his flights. Yet, I will always be there to make sure he thoroughly understands how to manage risk.
Here is how I know I have learned to manage risk. I mentioned I work as a PCP. I manage 2200+ patient’s. This week I had a 22 month child with a horrendous diaper rash. The worst I have ever scene. He was not improving with every treatment option, mom reports he became more ill and he is not acting like himself. He is now back with me on his 4th follow up visit in 6 days. He is genuinely ill, so I step back and start the assessment all over again. I ask “How is he eating and drinking?” Mom says he is not eating, but he cannot drink enough… insatiably thirsty!” At that moment, a light bulb goes on, he is Diabetic. Regrettably, I was right. Worse yet, in a condition known as Diabetic Ketoacidosis. He is well and coming home with his parents very soon from the hospital. (maybe I am lucky, good or just diligent). I compared this moment to defusing a bomb and having two different wires to snip... I selected the "correct wire"! (That is how I felt after). I AM JUST GLAD I DID NOT MISS THE DIAGONSIS!
So just prior to this, I flashed to a the Air Transat case where an airbus ran out of gas over the Atlantic because of a fuel leak and the crew refuse to suspect that they were leaking fuel. Confirmation Bias. At this moment, I needed to break the model this was just diaper rash; then rebuild the clinical situation. I learned about this as a pilot… now I think I am a better medical provider because of that. I shattered my paradigm and rebuilt it, considered other diagnosis, let myself consider I was wrong to think it was just a diaper rash.
As GA pilots, please compare and contrast your flight profiles so as to mitigate risk. Do not let your imagination fail you! We can be safer in what we do… we just need to move our love for flight from being a hobby or skill into the domain of being a vocation. A Vocation is a "calling" and as such we are obligated to advance our skills in our craft.
Please remember two things…
1. Well pilots, are safe pilots... talk with your PCP about any health concerns, in particular the ones that affect your ability to fly.
2. Safety does not happen by accident; safe outcomes are the result of a deliberate and interative process.
Sorry this was so long… but if you are now thinking twice about risk managment… I accomplished my goal.
I also supported Juan in his goal... making us safer pilots.
Juan... thank you for what you do!
WE WANT YOU ON THE PODCAST "SO THERE I WAS..." I hope you might consider joining us and share some of your great aviation stories.
You are a true gentlemen and a professional.
Your humble subscriber...
John B Hall
I hope you know I support you. GA can be safer if we are more critical of what we do...
My primary instructor prepared me for the power up pitch up by having me perform a no-flap landing (at night) trimmed to minimum approach speed and then calling “deer on the runway, go around” in mid-flare. I was shocked by how much forward pressure I had to put on the yoke to maintain a normal climb attitude. Muscling it forward while rolling off the pressure with trim took just about everything I had in that moment.
Not precisely the same situation since we had no flaps to clean up, but it drove home the idea that you’re not necessarily always going to be “pulling back” in a climb/go-around situation.
Oh yeah, I can remember my FI saying, you're going to have to " push hard against the flaps."
Every now and then I'll do a go around from a stable full flap approach just for the practice. I wonder what his flight training was like. We were taught about the region of reverse command back in the day. Push to climb seems odd but with full flaps that's how it works
Thanks for showing this with your advice on new runways.
I work less than a 1/2 hour north of the airport. We were all shocked that two crashes happened so close to each other at the very same airport. Prayers for the victims' families 😢🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
I used to live up the road a bit past the Juvenile hall, so I know how that fog can be. Marine layer from the coast mingling with fog of Diamond Valley and Lake Skinner.
"Practice a go around: MEANS!!!!!!:::::: A Q P! shaking my head sadly. My condolences to his children. Great video Juan. I really think AQP and a number of parameter changes as part these go-around practices to make it thorough and realistic.
I remember way-back-when I was landing during particularly gusty conditions in a 172. I trained in Cessna 152 and 172 though for the past 3 years most of my flights had been in a Piper with a manual flap control lever rather than the electric control switch in a 172. As I approached on short final with full flaps the 172 was way too unstable and about 10-15 feet above the runway I decided to retract flaps to 20. Unfortunately, I flipped the switch (it's only a momentary switch when rolling in flaps not when retracting) and took out all the flaps. I then sank, bounced a couple of times while adding full power, and then went around to land again with half flaps without incident. I was just too out of practice with the way Cessna flaps worked.
I like the piper flaps. I can feel how the lever work- up for more flaps and down to take out flaps.
Wow. Amazing. I just got back into flying/got current after a 20-year hiatus and was given several go-arounds in a 172, some full flaps. I only have 320 hours (comm/inst) but still know to push the yoke forward no matter how high the force/pressure is! Yes, with full flaps there's much forward pressure needed on the yoke with landing trim applied. Damn! Any certificated pilot should know this! What a shame, what a loss! He had so much runway, why is he going around?
When I first moved to Southern California from the Bay Area in 2006 I used to live about 2 miles up French Valley Road from French Valley airport and I used to notice on those hot summer days there would always seem to be more than a couple of go arounds. In relation to the Citation that crashed 4 days later, I don't know why a pilot that had flowin into French Valley before would attempt a landing after a go around in conditions probably below minimums. I know from experience that coming down French Valley road at the airport the marine layer/fog was sometimes so dense you could not see past a half car length in front of you. Condolences to the wife who lost her husband in the 172 crash, the children who lost their dad, and the families of the 6 who perished in the Citation.
I only did 2-3 go around a during my training in a 172. Going to practice some next time I go out. I remember the first time I flew with 3 total people in the 172 I was shocked how different it flew and how the pitch was totally different on take off.
Dang, some days we did 2-3 go-arounds, but nearly every day we had at least one. And an engine out. Or a fire. Etc. Some days we had real go-arounds (weather, birds) and even a few rejected takeoffs (more birds).
One day we were on approach and my CFI declared, "there's a full school bus on the runway." I hesitated just long enough to ask, "full of politicians or kids?" I got top scores that day.
That's one thing about the 172 that has caught a lot of new pilots. With the flaps at full and approach trim set, the plane can't maintain the climb it wants to do. There were two of these involving students in 172s a while back. One happened nearby at an FBO airport. The other happened at our flight school right outside my office. Ours amazingly survived despite severe damage to the plane. The other did not. Ours was exacerbated by a large bounce. This was ten years ago, but as far I recall, in both cases, flaps being left in full was a factor.
A go around is a maneuver, not a failure. You need to practice it just like you practice approaches and landings.
Really valuable video. Airspeed is king. I realized today you really gotta push down on the yoke to make sure you don't stall when going around.
Juan, the crash site in your illustration is incorrect. The actual crash site is near or where the airplane symbol is at the end of the red track. There are new industrial buildings at that location not depicted on your map illustration.
Always appreciate your updates.
It could be that there wasn't enough time to write the GPS buffer to the memory and that is the position that was last recorded.
@@glenngrubb9824 the crash site is west of that dead end road that runs north/south parallel to the runway.
Thanks!
Ce 182, full flap landing, after landing taxi off runway, flaps would not retract, flap motor burned out; a go around with passsengers would have been very difficult!
After that, no more full flaps unless landing needed and landing assured. ATP 3000 hours
A great procedure to show student pilots (or any pilot) is when they have the plane trimmed out for best glide while practicing engine out procedures, throw out the flaps, then have them go full power. It shocks them every time how hard you have to push to keep the nose down. It is a good exercise to show them. Shows them how demanding of a situation it can be if the airplane is configured in such away when going around. (teaching in a C-172 N & P model for reference)
I don't know how many flight hours he had (it's available I'm sure) but carrying passengers especially your own kids of I guess varying ages should be frowned upon or not allowed for a recently qualified or low hours PPL holder. Too many distractions and less than 100% attention and muscle memory reaction in a sudden situation.
That being said, I have no reason to criticise the deceased pilot whatsoever.
This was absolutely horrible.
Our hearts are with those children. I hope they all can fully mend physically and get all the support they need in the years ahead.
If anyone has an update on their conditions that would be appreciated.(Again I could probably look it up)
training for an instinctive behavior (like a go around, engine out, etc..) is also important since your brain can turn to mush in a high stress situation.
Thanks again Juan, this is heartbreaking, so glad it didn't burn, I hope the children will recover and the trauma will ease in time. 🙏❤️🇺🇸
Incredible sad. I owned a Mooney for 8 years and logged over a 1k hours and on final I was always was ready for a go around. With 200hp I knew my bird would abruptly pitch up and I had to be on the trim immediately. Obviously retract the gear and slowly bring the flaps up. I was a non event. AQP was not a thing when I was flying, but looking back my instructor was actually teaching me AQP. My CFI would always say, bad approach bad landing and I always remembered that along with GUMPP. I appreciate your channel!
If configured for landing in a 172 , you have to push like a S.O.B. to capture a go around with any usable speed and control while working out the trim and flaps. My instructor placed great emphasis on this drill.
As one who is currently in a training course we have done at least 4 go arounds in the last two days and they were called at various times during the approaches. I had a good friend get killed in a similar accident to this one in your report years ago at TAFB. We all need to practice this type of thing and learn from others.
A little correction. I live about a half mile away from this airport and its been my home airport flying for over 20 years. The road that runs parallel to the runway now has meduim size commercial buildings. He crashed right where hour red line ended. About 100 yards east od the runway. Where you pointed with your mouse is actually a county jail and was not involved. I know there is no way to know without local knowledge.
I can tell you this. I got home about 30 min prior to the crash and noted how windy and dry it felt. Winds were 10-20 knott all morning and it was about the time if day the on shore winds should begin. Ive flown here for 2 decaids and the hest, RH, and winds caught my attention at the same time he was flying. The pulot received hic Lic. The week prior at the local school. Thanks for the video.
It’s been a while since I practiced that and this is a great reminder.
On one of my first supervised solo in a C152, I did a go around leaving the flaps down. Oh crap flaps down bring them up. All at once. My CFI on the bench at KVNY said I sank like a rock. I made it….
Pilot Jared Newman, 39, newly certified 6/19/23, two weeks prior to the accident; 3 sons photo, ages maybe 6-12. News article says he crashed in airport parking lot & died trying to protect his sons. He has a 4th younger son who was not in the plane
.
A good refresher on go-arounds. Thank You
When I was actively instructing, I had my students go through many, many go-arounds in different configurations and altitudes and always included them during a flight review. Sometimes when my student was on a very short final, I would compliment him on being right on centerline and at the proper airspeed and then when he least expected it, I would yell "go-around". I reminded them about Murphy's Law and wanted them to be ready to react should the unexpected happens.
Sad event, and my heart goes out to the family. Totally understand how it can happen with that plane! C172 and its electric barn door flaps nearly got me years ago as a rookie pilot in college. I had earned my private license with 80+ hours of solid instruction in a Beachcraft Sport with _manual_ flaps ... had a pull up lever between the seats similar to a parking brake in a car. The college flying club had a 172 (and a couple other planes) at a very good rental price, especially when you split the cost with some friends. Check ride with the club instructor was great. A little more time in the plane, then went out for some night time touch and goes on a long wide runway in good weather. After the first landing, full throttle, tapped the flaps switch, and could not figure out why it wouldn't climb. Instinctively held the nose down (REALLY down!) even though barely above the runway. Became obvious when I glanced sidewise and saw the huge flaps all the way down. Yikes! Had applied full flaps instead of backing them off. Tapped the switch the other direction and it felt like a slingshot as the flaps retracted (fortunately smoothly over several seconds and not all at once). Never made that mistake again, and very thankful to have had enough experience to "feel" the plane as it transitioned ... otherwise would not have made it out of that situation intact. Sounds like the pilot in your story had trained in this plane, so they should have had practice with go arounds and electric flaps. Even so, an electric switch and those huge flaps can be a wicked combination. Thank you Juan for your excellent coverage on every story you do. I am certain it helps pilots prevent repeating of many many accidents. Keep up the great work!
Another reason to always remember FLAPS! Get them flaps UP, quickly(controlled, of course, don't just go from full flaps to flaps 0⁰
heart breaking. simply heartbreaking. this aircraft is one of the best handling platforms you can operate. But there are limits and on this day, he exceeded those limits with what appears to be, two mistakes wrt to go around procedures:
1. lack of flaps management
2. allowed aircraft to wander off the centerline which has a non trivial effect on lift and control of aircraft.
anecdote: my brother trained professionally and had his private license, twin rating and instrument before he was 22 years old. He was a terrific pilot and participated in numerous SAFECON events, "winning" several events. He had a terrific trainer and mentor. He was always careful. But then he entered military service and never flew again for 35 years. In the last two years, big brother decided to train back up and get his license again...Now just over 60 years old, he still has lots of experience and skills in memory, BUT TO HIS CREDIT...he started over from scratch...and resisted the urge to solo until he had mastered every one of the skills necessary...tripling the normal time a new pilot in training will eventually solo. He's smart. He knows his limits. I think this is one of those fundamental personal decisions many pilots do not adequately consider: the minimum, or when fully satisfied and confident that you can handle any situation properly. It's always a good idea to take it slow and build and then train, train, train and train again. It not only makes you safer, but this confidence also means you are unlikely to experience unexpected unanticipated problems that is often combined with stress, anxiety and panic.. ( I took the path of aviation maintenance..But I have seen my fair share of pilots who are extraordinary skilled and safe. They all share one common denominator: they train smart and they don't cut corners....they know their limits and work on improving the areas of weakness until they have mastered the skills necessary.
In the 707 pilots liked for the engineer to run the flap lever all the way up, and then pull it back to 14 degrees. That way they didn't mistake some other setting. Also, the slats came down after 11 degrees if I remember. Lots more lift with that.
Thank you very much for this update report about this tragic and sad event! RIP. My Condolences to the Family and Friends.
On my first and only solo in a Cessna 150, in 1966, I was on a stable final when the tower directed me to do a 360 for a priority medivac takeoff. I don't remember my actions except I was successful (I forgot carb heat to cold). I didn't even have time to get really excited.
The lesson in this accident and so many others that are similar. PRACTICE & PROFICIENCY!!! A pilot’s license is a license to learn, and a good pilot is ALWAYS learning. Go-arounds are a very risky maneuver if they are mishandled, and I believe that they should be practiced regularly. Got an extra 10 minutes while you’re up? Do a missed approach/go-around before you come in full-stop.
The only missed approach go-around I did was during my private pilot checkride in 1976. I hit the throttle when I saw I was too high and did the go-around fine and once down my CFI doing the check ride complimented me on making the right decision to go around.
He probably had never flown with any weight in the back seat. As an instructor I added max gross weight takeoff, using the student's friends or family, to the curriculum before I would send them for a check ride, including at least one touch and go, and one go around from less than 50 feet...more than once I would have died in a 172 or 182 if I hadn't helped push the yolk that first time on the go around. A local pilot killed himself and his 3 kids when I was a kid, balked landing in a 182. It went straight up and straight down...the whole crash scene was less than a wingspan long. The photo lab I worked at developed the coroner's pictures. I never forgot.
Good lesson. High and hot due to mountain terrain . I will keep this in mind.
Good report. Everything you have said is what I still remember from training back in 1974. I still remember.
Sad story but great teaching moment. Thanks Blanco!
Good reminder to do a go around once in a while for practice.
Thank you, RB, Nova Scotia.
Even though 172s can be landed with full flaps, it's usually not necessary to use full flaps and the plane can be easily landed with 10 degree flap in 99% of situation. Not only the flaring is easier with 10 degree flap, it also makes go-around easier and the plane will climb with adequate performance even if the pilot forgets to retract the 10 degree flap. I do this on most of the light aircrafts I flew and I don't understand why CFIs don't teach this to new pilots.
Thanks Juan
Very sad indeed condolences to his family,thanks Juan safe flying,👋👋🙏🙏👍🇦🇺
We all need to adhere to lessons learned and agree that we will lessen your work load! This is SOOO Sad!
Juan, you made a comment about trimming the elevator for landing. I may be wrong, but I teach my students to trim for level flight and and hand fly the approach and subsequent takeoff or GA in a C172. With a reduction in power, I don’t see where the control forces are enough to warrant messing with trimming the nose down. I’ve never had an issue with students over pitching the airplane on a GA. But I also emphasize to retract flaps based off of airspeed and positive rate of climb. Same with the climb out. Trimmed for level flight at 90 Kts, it will climb out at 75 with little to no pressure on the yoke at full power. Thoughts?
Thank you Juan.
Very sad indeed... thanks Juan.
What’s crazy is that I flew that plane days prior to the accident, it was my flight schools plane, absolutely tragic what happened 🙏
Sounds like the witness knew what they were looking at, noting flaps and engine performance.
When I was training in the C-150, the instructors disliked when you used 40 degree flaps on approach. Because the electric flaps were slow to move back to 20 degrees if you needed to go-around. They would say, "It is salvaging a high approach. You should go around if you are high. Forty degrees is only for landing over an obstacle on a short field." I flew in a 172 later and it only went to 30 degrees.
I grew up near that airport back in the '90s. I remember when there was nothing around it, there are too many houses around it for my liking. Way back when they were supposed to extend the runway too but of course nimby's were no we can't do that
I have made that mistake also in a Cessna 152, fortunately I was able to recover a Botched Go Around.
I’ve never taken up a family member. This is my biggest fear. The day I do, that would be the day I’d have a dang issue.
Thanks, and my condolences to the family.
On my first solo cross-country as a student pilot, the first field that I was to land at was going to be a straight in approach on almost the same heading as my route. I was concerned about some radio masts near the approach path and I also had a hard time initially seeing the field but the controller assited me in this regard. What happened then caught me by surprise as I had never done a straight in approach before and unlike a pattern, had no references as to what altitude, and airspeed I should be at any specific distance from the field. I realised too late that I was really high and fast, but being inexperienced still landed on the very long runway, but had a very long taxi to the terminal. This was embarrassing but now see it could also have been tragic. 😮
I believe this is the same thing that happened to the student pilot at Long Beach as well. It was his first solo and put the plane through the roof of a hanger. Thankfully he survived the crash. Would love to hear about the Bonanza P35 that went down in the water on approach at Shelter Cove and the C172 that crashed into power lines on approach at San Rafael the week after the French Valley crashes.
What a tragedy. I'm so sorry for the children.
I’m training right now in a 172 of similar vintage. Full power until any sort of stabilized climb then about 20 degrees of flap retraction and as said slowly retract from there as you increase speed and altitude. In this heat and DA getting the airspeed up is first then climbing.
Have watched Pauly Martin on his N70 TB plan his TO with a litany even though no one is around to hear it. Being a No Pilot, was curious why he talks to himself, at first. Later came to know the significance of his monologue and how it helps him fly even in challenging situations
Thanks!
Sincere condolences - RIP 💐🌌
My primary CFI had me do go=arounds from approach, flair and at touchdown. We did it about every 3-5 landings until I could perform a textbook go-around. The duty of the primary CFI is to be 100% confident that a student or pilot on a check ride can do all of these critical high work load maneuvers.
Basic airmanship. On a go around you add full throttle, be ready for a potentially huge pitch up, trim to compensate for the pitch up, wings level, get your airspeed and begin to milk your flaps up. Maybe talk on the radio once you are stable. So very sad.
The Father, pilot was Jared Newman a local Chiropractor, who actually lived close to the airport. So so sad.
Newly certified June 19.
Flying is a dangerous business, people
need to take it seriously it takes lots of commitment , time and money .
I wouldn't be flying anyone for a long time until I knew my skills could handle
every situation.
What a truly horrid thing to happen, my heart goes out to those kids and their family. Just so so many GA accidents - too many. One must wonder if there is something more that can be done in the training and certification phase of a persons journey to becoming a pilot.
Not everyone is wired to be a pilot. It takes much, much more than just dollars and a big ego.
If one was forced to reduce the Balked Landing checklist down to a single word, the best word to use would be, “PUSH.”
I had to do a go around and offset on my first solo years ago. Skydiver was coming down dead center on the runway as I was on final. Good times. Sorry for this family’s loss.
Juan, being a low time pilot, it's possible it was his first time flying the plane with 4 people. The climb performance may also have caught him by surprise. Condolences to the family and hopefully everyone will recover fully.