Gartside produces the most error free lines drawings I’ve ever seen so you can trust his numbers. He often adds a few cross sections through the forefroot to help work out this area. If you ca visualize a plane through the boat at any angle, you can soon see where it crosses stations, water-lines and buttock-lines. From there you can usually draw them up with ease. The visualization is the hardest part.
It is very hard to video this. One secret is that the hull planking is kept square edged and ended. So that groove is the negative shape where a square edge or end of a plank would fit. "Assembled" or sometimes called "Offering up" (many times).
Dear Mark, another question 😊... Please, when assembling the stem parts using carriage bolts, do you recommend using a cotton wad under the Bolt heads as caulking? What about cotton impregnated with PU? Thanks!
Yes, that is a good idea. We call those “neckties”. I usually use caulking cotton but I have used butcher string in a pinch. They are fine installed dry but I usually put pine tar on them. You could omit them if you use a glob of PU just under the head or if you were to plug the bolt hole using adhesive.
Isn't this where a full set of "lining" battens/stringers would be of prime assistance? I know, some pre-industrial traditions, e.g. the Scandinavians, really don't bother with much in the way of station molds beyond a single one amidships. But if you DO have lofted lines and molds for the forward half of the boat (leaving aside double-enders), my understanding is that this whole undefined "rolling bevel" rabbet shape problem in the forefoot, is largely solved by having done your plank lining work first. (I guess I'm sort of assuming a clinker hull here. But you need "lining out" eventually for carvel-seam too, so, maybe just do that part earlier?) Then you make a plank "fid", i.e. a little block maybe 3-4" long, and square in section, of the same dimension as your finished planking thickness. (E.g. if garboard is 3/8" thick, then plank fid is 3/8" by 3/8" by ~3.5".) This represents the full-size edge of your planking stock to mechanically determine the depth/angle of the back-rabbet & bearding line (all hood ends and garboard plank edge being normally kept square/90 for this reason). The orientation/angle of this planking fid, to directly represent the lay of the garboard in question, is then derived as you mentioned, by laying it in with another longer flexible batten showing the transverse section shape of the hull. But my whole point is, if that transverse shape batten has all the *lining battens* all fixed in place to lay against, rather than guessing/extrapolating at diagonal angles only from the forward station mold, things can be a lot less vague in this "unresolved" area between the stem and station #1. Sorry for the length, and pedantic reiteration of some points already stated or presumed/known. Just trying to be clear on the process/sequence for both actual boatbuilders and noobs. (Admittedly, I'm closer to the latter than the former!) Also, thank you very much for the book recommendation. I had missed that one... and now I just found out why. Rare and expensive! I'm seeing the revised 1998 edition currently new at $271.(US), a used copy for ~$180, and a 1st.Ed. (1983) for $75.
You are correct in your observations up to a point. Despite lofting carefully, you always leave a little meat to be dressed off once the backbone is erected, and you can’t do the final fitting if battens are crowding up the rabbet. Clinker or carvel is irrelevant. It’s the same fairing process. The genesis of the video was mostly born of the commenter not being able to visualize how the twist of the garboard related to the backbone components. Planking battens do tell a good bit of the story but they don’t do the best job of describing the shape through the twist and they may lead you to removing too much material right at the point where the plank wants a solid backing. Working square to the rabbet can help resolve that shape a little more accurately but the dummy plank provides the best confirmation that you are on the right path.
Thank you so much , Mark! Your explanation was extremely helpful and very clarifying as always! All the best, mate!
Thanks to all ❤ love you guys
I am at this stage with afolk boat .this video is very helpful thank you from Australia
Tricky as hell is an understatement! Really good explanation on bevel lineup.
Great info, Mark. I'm Going to be replacing a big, old, iron sick stem at some point, and this should come in handy,
Glad to help
Amazing very nice
This is insanely helpful!! I have this exact problem lofting my 10ft gartside clinker
Gartside produces the most error free lines drawings I’ve ever seen so you can trust his numbers. He often adds a few cross sections through the forefroot to help work out this area. If you ca visualize a plane through the boat at any angle, you can soon see where it crosses stations, water-lines and buttock-lines. From there you can usually draw them up with ease. The visualization is the hardest part.
Good explanation. I like your 1/3 practice model idea.
Thanks
Thank you... yikes, I have fought that turn, and because I don't do it often, it seems like I'm re- learning all the time.
To be honest, I have exactly the same experience.
It is very hard to video this. One secret is that the hull planking is kept square edged and ended. So that groove is the negative shape where a square edge or end of a plank would fit. "Assembled" or sometimes called "Offering up" (many times).
Yes, exactly. It’s hard to tell if you have it right until you bend in the actual plank.
Your friend has an interesting workstation there.
Hello farind 🌹 Good work
Fantastic explanation!
Glad you think so!
Great video! Do you always do your stem rabbets like this, or do you sometimes go the lofting route?
I always loft but leave some meat for fitting after the backbone assembly.
Dear Mark, another question 😊... Please, when assembling the stem parts using carriage bolts, do you recommend using a cotton wad under the Bolt heads as caulking? What about cotton impregnated with PU? Thanks!
Yes, that is a good idea. We call those “neckties”. I usually use caulking cotton but I have used butcher string in a pinch. They are fine installed dry but I usually put pine tar on them. You could omit them if you use a glob of PU just under the head or if you were to plug the bolt hole using adhesive.
Amazing very nice wood boat making love you my favorite channel form Pakistan 🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰🇵🇰
Isn't this where a full set of "lining" battens/stringers would be of prime assistance? I know, some pre-industrial traditions, e.g. the Scandinavians, really don't bother with much in the way of station molds beyond a single one amidships. But if you DO have lofted lines and molds for the forward half of the boat (leaving aside double-enders), my understanding is that this whole undefined "rolling bevel" rabbet shape problem in the forefoot, is largely solved by having done your plank lining work first. (I guess I'm sort of assuming a clinker hull here. But you need "lining out" eventually for carvel-seam too, so, maybe just do that part earlier?)
Then you make a plank "fid", i.e. a little block maybe 3-4" long, and square in section, of the same dimension as your finished planking thickness. (E.g. if garboard is 3/8" thick, then plank fid is 3/8" by 3/8" by ~3.5".) This represents the full-size edge of your planking stock to mechanically determine the depth/angle of the back-rabbet & bearding line (all hood ends and garboard plank edge being normally kept square/90 for this reason). The orientation/angle of this planking fid, to directly represent the lay of the garboard in question, is then derived as you mentioned, by laying it in with another longer flexible batten showing the transverse section shape of the hull. But my whole point is, if that transverse shape batten has all the *lining battens* all fixed in place to lay against, rather than guessing/extrapolating at diagonal angles only from the forward station mold, things can be a lot less vague in this "unresolved" area between the stem and station #1.
Sorry for the length, and pedantic reiteration of some points already stated or presumed/known. Just trying to be clear on the process/sequence for both actual boatbuilders and noobs. (Admittedly, I'm closer to the latter than the former!)
Also, thank you very much for the book recommendation. I had missed that one... and now I just found out why. Rare and expensive! I'm seeing the revised 1998 edition currently new at $271.(US), a used copy for ~$180, and a 1st.Ed. (1983) for $75.
You are correct in your observations up to a point. Despite lofting carefully, you always leave a little meat to be dressed off once the backbone is erected, and you can’t do the final fitting if battens are crowding up the rabbet. Clinker or carvel is irrelevant. It’s the same fairing process.
The genesis of the video was mostly born of the commenter not being able to visualize how the twist of the garboard related to the backbone components.
Planking battens do tell a good bit of the story but they don’t do the best job of describing the shape through the twist and they may lead you to removing too much material right at the point where the plank wants a solid backing. Working square to the rabbet can help resolve that shape a little more accurately but the dummy plank provides the best confirmation that you are on the right path.
Have a great video
You mentioned a friend. How do you make friends?
Are you asking for a friend?
First you gotta get a script and six actors….
Good work