How Does a Haimer Work? | WW261
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- Опубликовано: 30 июл 2019
- Haimer 3D Tasters are MAGICAL and we've always wondered exactly how they work. Well...we accidentally did something BAD---REALLY BAD that gave us the chance to understand how they're designed to be so accurate while measuring X,Y, and Z offsets. Pucker up for this heart-stopping moment, pay your respects, and find the silver lining. There IS a silver lining....isn't there??
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Links for this video:
Where to Buy a Haimer 3D Taster | bit.ly/2T78eXw
DIY Haimer Probe Tips (CHEAP) | bit.ly/2RD6Tec
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Reach us / CNC Info:
Speeds & Feeds: provencut.com
Download Fusion 360: www.dpbolvw.net/click-9255839...
Online Fusion 360 Training: bit.ly/LearnFusion360
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SMW Products: saundersmachineworks.com/
CNC Resources: www.nyccnc.com 5 Reasons to Use a Fixture Plate on Your CNC Machine: bit.ly/3sNA4uH 
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This Old Tony would have just run it in reverse to repair it!
And the worse, it would have worked
If reversing fails, he would tig weld it
i wonder what ave would have done
@@irishwristwatch7544 Nah he would tig braze it!
or put it in his lathe with time machine functionality xD
"Dissembling what 5000 rpm didn't disassemble for us". I about aspirated my coffee on that one.
:)
Actually laughed out loud myself
I lost it but I feel bad for laughing because I can picture someone being across the shop hearing that and just saying "nope that didn't just happen i'm not going to look"
Time for a "It Has Been ___ Days Since I Spun a Haimer at 5000 RPM" sticker/sign?
In the rocket business they call it "rapid unscheduled disassembly"
That usually happens after they run "hardware rich".
>Boom!
"Heimer, we have a problem..."
Nice to see the internals, very cool. New sticker Max. RPM rating 4900. Thanks John.
Hum: maybe you've come up with a new formula. Step aside, Hydraulic Press Channel and "Will it blend?", now is the time for the NYC Centrifugal Newtons Channel series "Will it spin?".
The spinner is the winner!
Now time for my dinner.
Still less painful than dropping a 15 ton drill on your shop floor! I feel your pain though. Poor Haimer.
bcbloc02 every time I see a radial drill for sale I think 'yeah, nah, it'll probably try and kill me'.
Well at least you caught the incident on camera for us. 👍
John, the error is because the dial must be on zero in its neutral position. It shows you how to set it in the instructions.
we own 6+ pieces and i maintain them and it is true
This. Adjust the clock using the 4 small setscrews so it reads -2 on the small and 0 on the big dail. No need to adjust Z
john not read manuals. and zero is that 87 on dial with no force unless calibrate needle to zero. it worked completely fine error was 25 he say and dial its bout 26 2x that 13 error
Dude John, you totally saved me from buying a Haimer just to take apart to quench my curiosity. Thank you !! phew, crisis averted.
LOL
@@nyccnc Yeah I feel you took one for the team here, so thank you!! I found this video cause I specifically searched for how these work. NYC CNC was the first video that popped up and given the history of your videos, I knew it was going to be awesome. =)
Really pleased to see the Pro's cock up as well. Jon, i'm saving this clip for the next time i make a bungle, when a boss is chewing me a new one and where my little challenges are nooo where near as expensive.
Ouch! I was just expecting a broken tip
well.. I didn't expect that to happen... the tip was my guess as well
I honestly thought the tip was the only thing that would had survived. it only broke when the glass went off
This made my heart jump almost exactly as if I had done this my self at that exact time. The empathy this induced was real and powerful.
Metrology + JB Weld, hilarious
Yeah, I have lost a couple of edge finders kinda that way, by not remembering what RPM I had it at, and one really nice Interapid Dial indicator, by hitting cycle start with it in there by accident lol.
It's been a minute since I gasped during the first few seconds of a video! Seeing how one of these things work though is absolutely fascinating
How did the Loc-Line get involved? Did the vibration cause it to loosen and fall or something?
Great video, John!
If only you had the spindle speed set at 4999 rpm, you would have been fine :-) I am really sad that you did this, and by sad, I mean glad. Very cool to see what is inside it and REALLY appreciate your analysis of the design intent. Perhaps Haimer needs to integrate a bluetooth wireless disable feature, so when the device is in the spindle, it automatically disables the spindle by delivering a 10,000v shock to the operator who touches the green start button :-)
The closing re-shot of the event was as brutal as the opening shot. And by 'we' accidently hit 'Cycle Start' you meant who ???
At least you captured it on camera.
Someone suggest him what else 'we' can put in that death trap and disassemble as fast as 'we' can.
I have a Haimer Zero Mater and have broken 2 tips but I hope I never have to work on it. But thanks for the information on how they work.
I was literally just searching for a video to see what was inside the Haimer! Crazy timing!
So *that's* why this happened in the first place. God works in mysterious ways...
Quicker than using the vice of knowledge . . .
John if you're still fiddling with this try moving the dial mechanism within the housing.
It's been a while since I've had my Haimer apart, and mine is also an earlier model, so I don't recall the specifics. However I do recall the alignment of the dial mechanism within the housing being part of the alignment process and it's a fairly simple process of loosening the screws that hold the dial indicator mechanism in the correct position and fiddling with it. It could be worth a few minutes to check anyway if the thing is otherwise trashed.
I think Long Island Indicator may repair Haimers (though not sure) however as I understand it Haimer don't sell parts.
Very informative video ❤️
A very interesting video. The same goes for an Interapid .0001” test indicator @ 10,000 rpm. In the summer of ‘91 a tech. was setting up a Fadal 4020. Of course the door switch was bypassed. I almost got that in the face! Be safe.
Learning the hard way haha glad to see I’m not the only knucklehead.
It just goes to show what insane levels of acceleration occur at even modest rpm rates. I made a rough calculation that the max acceleration was about 839g's.
If you do run it at 5k rpm... make sure you have super high frame rate camera catch the action ;)
And another thing... if you really don't want to disassemble it by hand try running it at 10k? or 15k?
Just purchased my first Haimer 3 weeks ago and set run out. Scares me to death to use it cause of the replacement cost. Great tool!
I've spun dial indicators before. It was painful every time. For years, the QA department had a trimike(mic for id bore) mounted on a plaque on the wall. Someone (not me) measured the large part in the turning centre and restarted the boring cycle with the mic in the bore.
A guy at my work turned on a coaxial indicator at 6000 rpm and the rod that sticks out to stop the rotation shot out and smacked him in his side left a nice mark and bruise but could have be much worse if it hit straight on.
Great video, thank you!!
Really interesting video 👍 Could you link the screwdriver set ? It looks really appealing 😏
This one? amzn.to/319avVL
This is a good thing to have. I use reinshaw probing systems on all our mills. Makes life alot eaiser
Centrifugal force, gets you every single time. Still, a fantastic tool for Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly.
OMG! I love your sense of humor. A beaty of tool, maybe you may want to limit rpm to a little less.
Jared still working there? Haven't seen him in a video in awhile.
This makes me feel better about the sharpie I spun at 8000rpm yesterday and exploded. At least in my case all it cost was a dollar pen and some acetone for clean up
I've done that. It gets messy fast.
I've never considered that. Sharpie at 8000rpm. Someone call the slow-mo guys! :)
I'm curious what kind of control lets the machine start the spindle in jog mode or probing mode by hitting cycle start? Not any of the real controls lets you do that! Either it says tool error or wrong control mode and that's it.
With Siemens, for example, you can start the spindle by pressing cycle start. It's not so weird.
Whoops, what mood is the boss in?, and does he like doughnuts?.
Very interesting John, very much hope it's a one off 🤔
Would it be possible to have a fail-safe in the machine controller, so that you can say "this tool only 60 RPM max"? Heidenhain has an input field for it, but it doesn't prevent you from programming a higher value.
in your control supports encoded tool holders... yes
Who done it?
Ouch!
I think they use a jig to assemble that face, hence why it's hard to do by hand?
Im amazed the hand wasn't ripped off when the bezel flung off. This is exactly what scares the hell out of me about CNC, one wrong number and the bank balance drops in 1000's
Ah... NYC CNC... the place where accidentally destroying precision equipment is accompanied by cheerful, upbeat music and funny sound effects
well mr saunders, what you do 10 minutes into this clip is something i haven't seen anyone do who's been showing how to use a haimer, maybe clark magnet high school, but they did it after they touched of the work piece z.
That black plastic piece is not plastic. It's hard anodized aluminum. Not that I've had to take one of these apart to fix it....
I did the same thing but it was with a Starrett edge finder in it. Never did find the parts. That was only $20 , how many edge finders = 1 haimer?
Hi; any chance to share the fusion files? I would like to have a go at making one without pulling apart mine….
Good job on the repair and the video! I can say that the sensor needs to be calibrated since you repaired it. That is why you are getting wrong measurements in X and Y. Haimer USA can calibrate them in house for a nominal fee and turn around is usually within a week.
That's what I like about John, no mater how bad the mistake is he will show us.
I don't have that much of an experience with the Haimer, but I thought the large arrow should be pointing zero when the taster is not touching anything in order to get accurate XY measurement, or it doesn't matter?
Since no one else has replied, I'll take my best guess
when the dial reads zero in the x/y axes, the edge of the feeler is right on the rotational axis, so no need to apply any offset for tool size
Of the 20 Machinists at my work, only one owns a Haimer 3d tester.
The rest of us use our dial indicators, but would find a Haimer handy.
I’m considering investing into one, is it worth it? Or should I jut stick to my versatile dial indicator?
it's worth it.
a haimer was one of my first investments in my new shop - long before i bought endmills oder anything else
It would be cool if someone made a tool-holder and spindle insert designed to prevent rotation on non-rotatable tools. Perhaps a pair of mechanically balanced electrical contacts.
Our machine has ability for clamping spindle :P
The reason for the inaccuracy of xy measurements is may be due to no preload on the clock spring in the actual movement when assembling you should have the bezel off and put one to two rotations on the longer needle and tape it down then assemble the unit and the last thing you do is reassemble the bezel. Being you are in NY try Longislandindicator.com they are in my opinion the authority on Interapid indicators but may know a thing or two about these .
lol, that was a lot of rpms! An entire bunch of them! :-D So... have heard about MR tool repair?
Afaik there's NO other place that can repair them other than returning it back to the Haimer factory. I don't believe Haimer is willing or does supply repair parts to anyone else.
We have a new Haimer 3D and it is very sticky and the dial jumps around so bad when probing that
it is almost useless....Has anyone else had this problem?
Why didn't you use a v-coil/helicoil or threaded insert? I mean, you maybe need to replace the tip again in the future!
- How to fix a super accurate instrument ?
- Well , just disassemble it and then bring all parts together : )
don't forget the JB weld!
I kinda cried when I saw that! Any chance spinning the unbalanced load damaged the spindle?
Rick, running any unbalanced tool holder assembly in a spindle runs the risk of damaging a spindle. Doing so will also void the manufacturers warranty on any new machining centers. Most machine builders will put a label on the spindle cover or electrical cabinet stating the balance requirements for the spindle. Something along the line of G 2.5@ 25,000 RPM or G 6.3 @ 14,000 for example. Note the G 2.5 rating is a much better balance rating than G6.3. Visit the Haimer USA website and read some of the stories on there from customers who purchased a balancer after blowing up their spindle and spending a lot of money on downtime, repair and scraped work pieces. There are so many benefits to running balanced tool holders, longer tool and spindle life meaning more bang from your investment of tooling and equipment, better surface finish resulting in less additional operations.
So... A fly cutter is a big no no.. ???
Nice, now i know what inside and how that works😁
What was It that destroyed the haimer, the ufo that flies by on the screen or a combination of that and the spindle speed? It looks like it's holding together until the ufo flies by.
physics
watched it a bit closely and saw that it was the glass cover that went to the left and bounced back.
Very good ❤️❤️❤️❤️
fascinating!
NO DISASSEMBLE!
Can a haimer 3D probe 2D and depth dimensions of a part( ascertain all dimensions within tolerance) when a set up is finished like renishaw probe
Yes, as long as the probe has been calibrated and verifed. We use ours that way occasionally.
@@OMY005 is it possible for you to share a small video of how u do it.
So at what speed will a Renishaw self disassemble?
They don't survive 12k on a Ha$$. 😭
How does a Haimer work? - You Swaing it while holding onto the Haindle.
Does anyone remember the old Blake co-axial indicators. What a mess it made when they slammed into your setup at 300 I.P.M.
a 20 dollar edge finder is all ya need for x and y yes you have the chance of messing up if you dont shift half of the tip but that thing is probably not cheap.
so, what is the rpm limit of a haimer?
stahp it XD
African or American Haimer?
4:37 hmm yes.. for now.. :D
WHATS GOING ON WITH THE JOHNNY 5 BUILD???
I smashed my Haimer in the Z a while back and the part also ripped open the boot on the bottom. Do you know of a good supplier for replacement parts for these?
www.haimer-usa.com/contact/service-and-applications.html
@@ron070294 they don't sell direct, have to go through a distributor.
Hint: use someone else’s Haimer, next time! 😏
Interesting lesson/video! Was great to see some detail on how the Haimer 3D probe actually works. Finally got around to looking up 'Taster' in German to English translators. Looks like 'Taster' can mean 'button', 'stylus', 'feeler', or 'surface feeler'. So in German, the name makes perfect sense (no surprise there). Just seems a little peculiar in English...
Also, thinking about the forces involved, I don't buy the rationale offered for why there are 8 screws around the lower ring. Sure, there are some 'stresses' induced when a stylus tip is adjusted to ~0 runout, but the forces are very small. The entire assembly in engineered so that tiny lateral forces are sufficient to move the stylus. I suspect that if you removed every other screw, leaving just 4 with 90 degree spacing, you would not be able to demonstrate any change in real-world performance. Still, I'm leaving all 8 screws in place in my Haimer 3D Surface Feeler in honor of German over-engineering. Better over-engineered than under-engineered.
I think the adjustment is performed by flexing one of the metal parts, which requires a lot of force, so the ring needs to be really well anchored down.
I haven’t taken one apart, but the adjusting screws are tiny and adjusting them is a delicate task, not much torque required at all. So I don’t agree that 8 screws are required.
In the trades we call this a rapid unscheduled disassembly.
I bet you could make an attachment to turn any dial indicator into a haimer....
i managed to crash one of these things (z crash): that rod hit the hemisphere and moved it out a little so there was some play on the z axis; the change in geometry meant the x and y were unreliable, but when measuring in the z-direction it was still accurate. figured it must be salvageable, so i had my dad look at it; he bent a pin or something inside the device so that the top of that rod seated correctly in the hemisphere. *i just finished the video*; it might still be salvageable. see if there's any play in the z direction (when you pull on the tip)
:/
That's a "bad day at the office". What does one of them run, price wise?
Jimmeh B last time I looked about $450USD
@@Livedracersteve While that's not cheap, it's actually not as much as I could have imagined
Computer Numerical Catastrophe
I just purchased mine and wanted some videos to show how they work and how to calibrate it. The 5k spin was painful to watch...
Hey guys, I'm gonna take the Haimer out for a spin.
xD man, that takes stupidity to press start one the mill there.
You need to replace it with a Hallmark ITTP !! I hear they're good to 10k RPM :) LOL
Yes but only for the fraction of a second before the slack in the cord is taken up...
@@SH-pc4xt That cord would hurt pretty bad spinning at 5 or 10k
Per NASA protocol, a Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly Event... 😬
So how does the 3D taste? Maybe a little bitter?
Ha ha. Funny I just broke the tip on my Hammier today for the second time in 2 1/2 years. Pissed of doing it. Sets the beginning of the day on a bad note.
That is 0:20 11:06 solid nightmare O.O
Better the Haimer than a Reneshaw. 😳
That cycle start made me cringe hard. For me the Haimer customer service was excellent and fairly quick, but like you said, not cheap with all the postages involved.
Good thing my old mill tops out at only 4,000 RPM's 🤔
If one of the employees decided to rebuild it, he'd be fired. When indicating a new tip to dead center of any probe like this, I like to bring the test indicator to zero and then move it off ten thousand and move it back to make sure it repeats. Only when I'm within a couple tenths though. Without doing this at each quadrant, I guarantee you are not centered. Nobody thinks of this. By doing this you are eliminating most of the built up tip pressure from all the friction. It matters if you want it truly centered. If you leave the test indicator on the probe the whole time while spinning, it'll say zero once you are within a couple tenths. Do the same thing as you would normally do, but once you think you are good move it off and back on, at each quadrant, and I guarantee you'll see additional error that came from somewhere that you didn't see when leaving it touching the whole time. The more pressure your test indicator applies the worse the error will be.
Im sorry, but it almost made me pee myself :D what a glorious evening (EU)
Question: Who did it? Follow up if it was not you: Are they still employed there?
I doubt John would fire someone over a 500 dollar mistake. Its not like it was a renishaw probe.
@@cbking95 Bingo. Lots of reasons someone may not be a fit at a shop, but accidentally doing this is not one of them.
I was joking. I did not seriously think John would fire someone over a mistake that was bound to happen eventually. However, I would expect that person to get the nickname Haimer Destroyer and get shit for it for at least the next month in accordance to standard shop practices. The exception is if someone breaks something more expensive or does something funnier.
I make $500 mistakes at least monthly. Simply and sadly sunk costs are a fruition of business.
YT needs to add a 'loop' function so you can set a start time and an end time and loop continuously -- in this case 0:23-0:25. Endless entertainment.
I’ve never sent an indicator to the back corner
This is exactly what happened to mine
You should have seen what was left of my Brown and Sharp "Best Test .00005 Test Indicator" at 5000 RPM . Boooom!!!
I think I found all the pieces.
I got lucky because when the body finally detached at 5000 RPM it slammed into the column of the CNC Mill and not through the open door and hit me!
So the guy who did this is still trying to remove a boot from his ass ?
I can now see why they are so expensive , they are beautifully made !
You spin me right 'round...