I wrote this on comments but I’ll ‘spam’ it here too. Just an observation: you mention Jaime A LOT on tested. While I know you guys aren’t huge buddies I still consider you both like distant uncles... when my uncles fight it’s lame. I say that to say this... I wish Jaime had tool tips.
Every school kid needs a teacher that talks about perpendicular, parallel, and concentric with as much detail, explanations, and excitement that you do!
i love how detailed you went in this please do so more. I so wish my teachers in school would have taught both imperial and metric mean i was 17 before i knew the rest of the world used a different system. they literally never told us. i love how you even when you are just pulling out the bit you put it away instead of just laying it down. thats one of my shop pet peeves. My grandfather who built bombers during WW2 always told me "If you don't have time to do it right the first time what makes you think you're going to have time to go back and do it again?" Be precise and know your tools it will save you time and energy. the devise looks like it would be so handy in doing just that.
In that case, you would be glad to know that, as a current high school student in WA, we used the metric system for all our science classes. Imperial is almost a footnote in my experience, and I don’t really have a huge problem with that. International standards FTW!
"Every time you're doing math like that, is an opportunity to make a mistake." Oh yes it is. Math an I have a long and sordid history. We each throw stares at each other. Sidelong glances. We growl at each other trying to prove who is the strongest. When in my heart I know that math wins every time.
Zero milling experience but as soon as Adam held up the other edge finder next to the Haimer it clicked and I could tell exactly why this tool made him so excited and audibly “Oh!”’d. The 20 minutes of context was 100% worth it. As someone who doesn’t really “make” in the physical space I can still appreciate any tool or technique that reduces the time and opportunities for error needed for a process. Love it.
This was LOVELY! I'll probably never see one of these in real life myself, but the /learning/ is so valuable to me! When I realized what that second smaller needle was for I went 'ohhhHHHHOHHHH!' out loud because Adam explained the lead-up so well! Perhaps it's less of a Tool Tip and more of a Tool Showcase - since it's so expensive, few people will likely buy it, but understanding that such a thing EXISTS and how it works is a great service to provide to new makers to help teach them about the wider world they've not yet seen.
I know this video is about a year old just came across it. I have been a machinist for about 12 years mow. All of my friends call me crazy for spending money on my garage set up but like you they didn't understand how much time it saves me great video thank you.
Honestly the preamble to this tooltip is something I would love to see more of in your future videos, I love when I actually learn something about the operation of your mill or lathe or other tools. The stuff that usually gets caught in the timelapse footage when you are showing off a piece coming together. More of this education would be my dreams come true. Thanks for all you do.
I LOVE the explanation. It is so critical that people understand WHY they do a task not just that they have to. That institutional knowledge has to be kept alive. I didn’t know this tool existed. I understand what it accomplishes and know it is well worth the money.
@@anchorbait6662 There is an old video (100k sub special or some such) where he shows his face. But I'm happy with either as long as ThisOldTony gets to write the script and do the editing!
I must say that I appreciate the background info. It's a lot better than throwing someone in the deep end without any frame of reference and them not being able to understand it at all. This is much more helpful for someone that is new.
TIP: you may already know this but since the parallels raise the work from the bottom of the vise it is best practice to also tram in the vise in the Z axis at the bottom of the of the vise where the parallels sit. It should be more flat there. Also as you saw the right half of the top of the vice jaw has a dip in it the farther right you went, but the left half was mostly flat. Great tool tip. I have been eyeing one of these for some time now 👍
" it is best practice to also tram in the vise in the Z axis at the bottom of the of the vise where the parallels sit." To truly scratch your OCD, you could tram beside the fixed jaw in the X-direction, and multiple times toward the movable jaw in the Y-direction.
I bought a bucket of machinist tools at a shop close out garage sale and there was a digital Haimer gage in the bottom. Put a new battery in it and it worked. Made me a very happy camper.
This is the shop class I never attended I wish I had in High School years ago. New to woodworking and been a maker for sometime with computers generally, but so happy to watching and learn.
What a great combination of hands-on knowledge, teaching ability, enthusiasm for the subject and a positive disposition. That smile he shows almost non-stop is that of a man doing what he loves.
I ordered 10 of these for my shop about 3 years ago. From experience, they work well for quick indicating or checking dimensions but I only use them for a reference point to rough stock and whatnot. The ball on the end is not hardened and 99% of the time they are out of round. Putting them on our tool presetter, they typically have .001- .002 of runout on the ball and if you are not just touching the material you are checking but actually hand wheeling it down the surface, the ball eventually gets flat spots. Like I said, they are good for just slapping something on the table that doesnt really matter and you just need it close, they are great but I will leave my delicate dialing in to my mitutoyo tenths indicator. Also, these need to be calibrated every time they are loaded into the machine. Works best if you have a dedicated tool holder just for the probes so you can set it once and be done with it until the tip needs replaced.
I barely understand what you're talking about since I'm not a machinist but because you're so genuinely passionate about it, watching and listening is fantastic :)
I absolutely loved this tool tip, it was my favorite yet. The breadth of knowledge I gained in this video on zeroing surfaces and tramming was incredible. I love when you're able to share your depths of knowledge with us, please do this as often as you'd like :)
When someone first showed me a 'Haimer 3D Taster' a few years ago, I hadn't long had my mill, but I knew I had to get one ASAP. They're totally brilliant bits of kit. No more adding the edge finder diameter instead of subtracting, or changing tools to measure in Z rather then X or Y, etc. Fortunately I dropped on one 2nd hand, but unused on ebay for a very sensible price. The only not so good thing is how expensive the ceramic tips are when you (inevitably) snap one! I tried describing how awesome they are to a friend who has a mill without having the gauge with me, and I don't think he really got it - your video describes it way better then I did!
The first thing you need to know about dial indicators (which I learned from the machinists I used to work with) is that they tend to loose their accuracy above 3,000 RPM. ;)
@@sambenao7 doing would destroy it for sure , but im talking from experiance x was enought to damage it to point needle was not responding ... I gues it aswell depends on how fast ur mashine is... It pushed vice all the way to home...
Adam as a Machinist by Trade and a self-taught engineer for a company that develops manufactures and distributes specialty alloys. I must point out that you're doing it wrong. LOL I must say I am a huge fan and grew up watching Mythbusters and would always cringe watching you running a lathe or a milling machine. I would however commend you for being upfront about reaching out to others for help and your desire to learn more about this trade reminds me of my self want to be and engineer and work hard to be able to practice it without a degree. I am writing this comment to you simple to educate and hope it will add to your vast plethora of knowledge. But please add a light oil to the .200 barrel of the edge finder and run between 1000 rpm and 1500 rpm. this will help increase your accuracy. I particularly use 1200 RPm. Again Thank you for all you have taught us through the years and thanks for the Video's. P.S. MollyDee is my tap fluid of choice as well!
I'm not a maker but I absolutely love watching tool tip videos like this. I could listen to Adam explain just about anything because his enthusiasm makes it fun.
YES... We finally arrived at the tool tip... and no worries about the length of the video, I enjoyed the journey you took us on... we did arrive at the Haimer 3D edge finder with all of it's glorious context! 😁
Watching your skills in machining evolve over the last few years has been one of the more fascinating journeys I’ve watched in a while. Keep it up Adam, never stop learning.
I find that almost every episode Adam will mention Jamie by telling a funny anecdote or something Jamie taught him over the years. I think a lot of Mythbusters fans were upset when they found out that Jamie and Adam struggled to work together, but if listening to the way Adam talks about him has shown me anything is that they were still friends, and I think they respected each other, they just had strong and differing opinions about how a certain job should get done. Some friends shouldn't work together, that's just the way of the world. I'll be forever grateful for the fact that they stuck with it for as long as they did, because I don't want to live in a world where there is even a single episode of Mythbusters less than we have.
I'm a machinist for almost 30 years now.. i have used them all.. Wigglers, Haimers, the electronic ones, and also 3D touchprobes on CNC machines.. , on a CNC i prefer the 3D probe above all, though the Haimer comes a close second.. Lever gauges are also very versatile.. i have 3 of them in my shop, one for every machine... need to buy a 4th one, as i have recently bought a new lathe.. :) I never had issues with "doin' the math, as you need to do that for every mill you use as well.. (the Haimer is also a great tool for centering in holes if your DRO has the Half function.. and if you want to be really precise, use a lever gauge after that.. put it in the spindle and rotate by hand.. if the needle doesn't move.. you're centered..
I love the Haimer 3D edge finder, as a machinist I use it dozens of times a day we have 8+ of them in our shop. Adam I'm sure you already know this but make sure you indicate that ball in at least once a month depending on your usage (there should be 4 set screws around the bottom to the gauge used to center the ball with the spindle. We usually do ours every other week or so. Also when buying replacement tips be careful there are some with a 4mm ball and others with a 5mm ball, don't ask me how I learned this.
@@Iamtheexodus2 The parts I make are usually toleranced at ± .002". So it was pretty obvious that something was very wrong and I only killed one part. It did take far far too long trying to figure out why my part was off by .04" though.
I love Tool Tips and One Day Builds because it's like being in high school shop class with the absolute coolest teacher. Everytime one ends I imagine a class bell ringing.
Hey Adam! Big fan been watching myth busters for years in the UK! Have been loving these videos, have to say as a time served machinist for nearly 10 years you explained everything perfectly! And always with such passion. I and many people have know the frustration of forgetting to move half of the edge finder (“wobbler” we call them in the UK :D) but those 3D gauges are life savers and so convenient. Similar to the edge finder the same can be done with an old shank of a tool and a feeler gauge if you’re on a budget. Keep up the awesome videos!
If it goes wrong on step 1 of the project, yes. If it goes wrong on step 67, a million times yes. Not to mention the thing you broke when you threw whatever was in your hand across the room
Uh, yeah. A friend of mine was working on a project with iridium and niobium. He made a cut in each that was off by 1/200th of an inch. Even with the days of down time, it was cheaper to bring in a dedicated furnace and molds, painstakingly pick up all the swarf and melt it all down into a desirable shape and try again, than to buy new stock.
Came here to post this, Adam only mentions the 4x factor time saved on zeroing in his mill, but time and stock saved due to less chance of errors is a way bigger impact I think
That was how I budgeted for 10 of these for our shop. I pulled all of our scrap reports for the last year based on dimensions being off by .100 and used that as a baseline for cutting scrap down. Easy to budget about 5 grand for a set of 10 and tips when we had over 70k in scrap due to edge finding in a year... haha
I have the slightly bigger Haimer 3d Taster and it's my absolut favorite tool for my manual Aciera F4 mill. I use it to measure work pieces too, and dept of holes/steps, centre of circles etc etc. I also can't understand how 99% of manual machinists don't use one or don't think it's worth the investment. Madness!
So obviously super useful. I recently bought a 150 mm Mitutoyo digital caliper, I think based on your recommendation. Best tool I've bought since my Makita DF030DWE Cordless Driver Drill, and I don't even make anything :). Lovely tools often cost a bit of cash, but it's always worth it!
Thanks Adam. Simple, once explained. I take in all sorts of machining hints, tips, tricks, etc. and find I use them in my non-machining world. This one is tucked away for later! Regards (and hello to TOT)
Love this channel. Believe it or not, the Haimer is while fast, not as accurate as a good edge finder. MOST of the time it's not an issue, and speed is good!
This was probably my favorite tool tip so far and most likely precisely because of it’s convolution. Thank you Adam for being so human and honestly open in your interaction with us dear friends that you have never met in person.
I greatly enjoy the context you give us when you describe tasks and tools, giving people like me with such basic skills some understanding. Perhaps this is one of the great features of the MythBusters show and what made it so very popular! Thanks indeed!
Not sure if it was on purpose, but I appreciate how you offset and re-zero in the wrong direction and immediately say "Every time you're doing math like that, is an opportunity to make a mistake." :)
Anything made By Haimer is the top shelf of the machining industry...I have one of the newer 3D edge finders and then I bought the Centro for holes supreme accuracy
What you forgot to mention, is that you actually need to calibrate the Haimer, using a dial indicator first, before it's of any use for dialing in your workpiece ;-) Good video on explaining the merits of the Haimer. I actually bought one as a birthday present to myself to use on both my manual and my CNC mill. It's one of those things you can ponder about for ages, but in the end you just have to take the plunge. In contrary to what you said, I've never seen it as a "mainly CNC accessory". Instead I'd say it's more of an upgrade to using wigglers. On CNC equipment probes are the way to go (and again a lot faster than a Haimer)
I am struck by something Adam said. We all, throughout our lives, often wonder what our legacy will be. Well, it sort of blows my mind that the person (or persons) that made this machine in 1968/69 may well be long gone from this mortal coil, and yet Adam is still using it to make wonderful objects that, in turn, inspire us to do the same. That, I submit, is quite a legacy indeed.
I used Kurt's for years. Th hen when we went to CNC on our Bridgeports we tried out a different style vise. The fixed jaw is in the front. They can be used conventionally or stood on their sides. The fixed jaw is mounted with screws from the bottom and the end. The screw and thrust bearing mount in the solid jaw. The solid jaw has for all intense and purposes no flex when you tighten the vise. The vise is safer to use because when you put parts in and position them against the solid jaw you pulling the piece towards you. If you slip you are not going towards the cutter. For CNC operations you are always working in the +/+ quadrant. For the same opening the vise takes up less room than a regular Kurt. Sad thing is these vices didn't take off in the market. Kurt now makes a similiar type of pull vise but they ain't cheap
Hell. I'm not a machinist at all, but I'm really excited about the time/labor saving benefits of your Haimer gauge. Specifically for someone who lives in an area that is world renown for the fact that the Earth moves regularly and precision consistent edge can be a significant issue when your machines get bounced around a bit.
I just found your channel was wondering what you have been doing , I like you explaining of the tools and tips for manual machining keep them going ! Best regards from Kentucky
I invested in a 3D Taster (German for 'touch') several years ago. Haimer aren't the only players in the game and I bought a Tschorn 3d taster for considerably less. They're also quite a bit more compact.
"We all understand this" nooo, nooo no... "some" understand how things are, some understand other stuff... welcome to my life explaining what I find day in day out. Great content
"why would you buy this" you ask. Why wouldn't you? This is just beautiful, this is peak technology and inovation. I want to learn how that little fella works, im reallly intreegued
take ball, drill hole, tap hole, screw onto handle, would be more a 5 minute build, though with how adam goes off on a tangent so easily it could be a one year build
Please be careful while moving your hands around the cutters, as you know they are sharp, especially since you are excited about showing us this great new tool. Great video. Machinist since 1967.
Adam, I've noticed that you tend to bring the quill down when trying to reach things in your vice. You should try to bring the knee and the vice up to the tool, not bring the tool down to the work. The main reason for this is rigidity, but there's also a LOT of force acting on the quill, so using it at max extension will wear out the quill bearing surfaces over time and that slowly increases the risk of the quill moving on your during a cut. The same thing somewhat holds true for the drill press when used as a spindle sander, it's always better to bring the table up so that the force on the quill has a shorter 'lever' to work with.
Adam, That sound the table made when tramming the vice. It really should not! Too loose and or dry - Check and adjust your backlash & gib and make sure the oil is flowing proper. Really appreciate your enthusiasm. I came across the Haimer 3D Taster visiting another shop. It took almost a full five minutes to order on my phone. Second to my Mitutoyo digital calipers, best money ever spent.
I have a CNC machine in my maker shop and quickly realized I needed one of these. Allowing me to set tool height based off of it then using it to locate parts in the machine made everything so much more enjoyable. The lack of setting a tool height on the bridgeport seems like it would limit it's usefulness. I haven't tried it on mine. Using it to tram in the vise would be helpful though I could surely see that. I should have done a video on mine as like you my machines are all imperial units and my Haimer was metric. Unlike you I am unable to get metric tool holders for my machine. I ended up pulling the Haimer apart creating a fixture to hold the shaft and putting it in the lathe. Using a tenths indicator I very carefully turned it down to exactly either .7500 or .6250. That was a stressful day, that Haimer cost a significant chuck of the cost of the entire CNC machine.
The biggest advantage of using a probe sensor is avoiding measurement errors. It's not until you screw up a part that you understand the 1 out of 500 times you forget to half your edge finder is too much of a risk.
If you like the weapon displays in the V&A in London, then you should visit (if you've not done so already) the Royal Armouries museum in Leeds. Swords, daggers, spears, pikes, halberds, armour, even elephant armour. It's amazing!
This is sort of like a Coaxial indicator being used for edge finding. Nice. Normally, coax indicators are used for locating the spindle up to a hole ID.
The usefulness of this expands in a CNC setting if only for the reason of the 3 axis usage with taper tooling that stays at the same tool length rather than an r8 collet which is more difficult to reliably keep a consistent cutter length
They work well for CNC but the faces do get coolant in them so better to leave them out of the machine when not in use. Where these really shine is on a horizontal tho. I run a large boring mill and trying to see an edge finder pop from 8 feet away and 10 feet in the air sucks. You can preset the tool length and use it to set Z if you just call up the tool height.
Cats are also reliable edge finders because they will look you straight in the eyes while they knock your precious belongings off and make sure you are taking notes for the important scientific research they conduct.
One critique. When edge finding in y it is better to indicate off the hard jaw to eliminate small variations in your material. Also clamping pressure variations can also slightly move your center if you measure off the movable jaw side.
Y axis is really easy. Just put a ground in a collet. Loosen the vise jaws and just slide the part over until it makes contact with the rod. Tighten the vise jaws and you are now the radius of the rod offset. If you want to get fancy mill away half the rod. Then when you slide the part over you’re on centerline.
Haimer Mini 3D Sensor: amzn.to/2YBfpeP
Dial Indicator: amzn.to/3cycKej
Hi Adam how are you?
How does one correspond with Adam?
I don't even own a CNC and I want one. That is so cool!
I wrote this on comments but I’ll ‘spam’ it here too.
Just an observation: you mention Jaime A LOT on tested. While I know you guys aren’t huge buddies I still consider you both like distant uncles...
when my uncles fight it’s lame.
I say that to say this...
I wish Jaime had tool tips.
In Machining speed cost money $400 is probably about right
Every school kid needs a teacher that talks about perpendicular, parallel, and concentric with as much detail, explanations, and excitement that you do!
It's the enthusiasm and excitement that matters the most - what a teacher Mr Savage would make! (lessons would run waaaaay over time though!)
Ohhh, Adam know This Old Tony.... I'm so happy to know that.
Yes, TOT made stuff for the apollo hatch
i love how detailed you went in this please do so more. I so wish my teachers in school would have taught both imperial and metric mean i was 17 before i knew the rest of the world used a different system. they literally never told us. i love how you even when you are just pulling out the bit you put it away instead of just laying it down. thats one of my shop pet peeves. My grandfather who built bombers during WW2 always told me "If you don't have time to do it right the first time what makes you think you're going to have time to go back and do it again?" Be precise and know your tools it will save you time and energy. the devise looks like it would be so handy in doing just that.
In that case, you would be glad to know that, as a current high school student in WA, we used the metric system for all our science classes. Imperial is almost a footnote in my experience, and I don’t really have a huge problem with that. International standards FTW!
"Every time you're doing math like that, is an opportunity to make a mistake." Oh yes it is. Math an I have a long and sordid history. We each throw stares at each other. Sidelong glances. We growl at each other trying to prove who is the strongest. When in my heart I know that math wins every time.
I think math wants to fuck you.
Careful math is very capable of doing that.
A Tested x This Old Tony crossover is really what I need in my life.
“Enjoy the precision of the work you do”, you my friend are a big contributor to that! A great conclusion for this show and tell.
Zero milling experience but as soon as Adam held up the other edge finder next to the Haimer it clicked and I could tell exactly why this tool made him so excited and audibly “Oh!”’d. The 20 minutes of context was 100% worth it. As someone who doesn’t really “make” in the physical space I can still appreciate any tool or technique that reduces the time and opportunities for error needed for a process. Love it.
This was LOVELY! I'll probably never see one of these in real life myself, but the /learning/ is so valuable to me! When I realized what that second smaller needle was for I went 'ohhhHHHHOHHHH!' out loud because Adam explained the lead-up so well!
Perhaps it's less of a Tool Tip and more of a Tool Showcase - since it's so expensive, few people will likely buy it, but understanding that such a thing EXISTS and how it works is a great service to provide to new makers to help teach them about the wider world they've not yet seen.
I know this video is about a year old just came across it. I have been a machinist for about 12 years mow. All of my friends call me crazy for spending money on my garage set up but like you they didn't understand how much time it saves me great video thank you.
Honestly the preamble to this tooltip is something I would love to see more of in your future videos, I love when I actually learn something about the operation of your mill or lathe or other tools. The stuff that usually gets caught in the timelapse footage when you are showing off a piece coming together. More of this education would be my dreams come true. Thanks for all you do.
I LOVE the explanation. It is so critical that people understand WHY they do a task not just that they have to. That institutional knowledge has to be kept alive.
I didn’t know this tool existed. I understand what it accomplishes and know it is well worth the money.
This makes me wish for a colab between ThisOldTony and Mr Savage.
Would totally watch.
Adam and a couple extra floating hands and voice
@@anchorbait6662 There is an old video (100k sub special or some such) where he shows his face. But I'm happy with either as long as ThisOldTony gets to write the script and do the editing!
@@VorpalGun And more chance of that than an AvE collab (unfortunately!)
We want this too. We were just talking about it in our staff meeting earlier today.
I must say that I appreciate the background info. It's a lot better than throwing someone in the deep end without any frame of reference and them not being able to understand it at all. This is much more helpful for someone that is new.
TIP: you may already know this but since the parallels raise the work from the bottom of the vise it is best practice to also tram in the vise in the Z axis at the bottom of the of the vise where the parallels sit. It should be more flat there. Also as you saw the right half of the top of the vice jaw has a dip in it the farther right you went, but the left half was mostly flat. Great tool tip. I have been eyeing one of these for some time now 👍
" it is best practice to also tram in the vise in the Z axis at the bottom of the of the vise where the parallels sit."
To truly scratch your OCD, you could tram beside the fixed jaw in the X-direction, and multiple times toward the movable jaw in the Y-direction.
I bought a bucket of machinist tools at a shop close out garage sale and there was a digital Haimer gage in the bottom. Put a new battery in it and it worked. Made me a very happy camper.
This is the shop class I never attended I wish I had in High School years ago. New to woodworking and been a maker for sometime with computers generally, but so happy to watching and learn.
What a great combination of hands-on knowledge, teaching ability, enthusiasm for the subject and a positive disposition. That smile he shows almost non-stop is that of a man doing what he loves.
I ordered 10 of these for my shop about 3 years ago. From experience, they work well for quick indicating or checking dimensions but I only use them for a reference point to rough stock and whatnot. The ball on the end is not hardened and 99% of the time they are out of round. Putting them on our tool presetter, they typically have .001- .002 of runout on the ball and if you are not just touching the material you are checking but actually hand wheeling it down the surface, the ball eventually gets flat spots. Like I said, they are good for just slapping something on the table that doesnt really matter and you just need it close, they are great but I will leave my delicate dialing in to my mitutoyo tenths indicator. Also, these need to be calibrated every time they are loaded into the machine. Works best if you have a dedicated tool holder just for the probes so you can set it once and be done with it until the tip needs replaced.
I barely understand what you're talking about since I'm not a machinist but because you're so genuinely passionate about it, watching and listening is fantastic :)
I absolutely loved this tool tip, it was my favorite yet. The breadth of knowledge I gained in this video on zeroing surfaces and tramming was incredible. I love when you're able to share your depths of knowledge with us, please do this as often as you'd like :)
When someone first showed me a 'Haimer 3D Taster' a few years ago, I hadn't long had my mill, but I knew I had to get one ASAP. They're totally brilliant bits of kit. No more adding the edge finder diameter instead of subtracting, or changing tools to measure in Z rather then X or Y, etc. Fortunately I dropped on one 2nd hand, but unused on ebay for a very sensible price. The only not so good thing is how expensive the ceramic tips are when you (inevitably) snap one! I tried describing how awesome they are to a friend who has a mill without having the gauge with me, and I don't think he really got it - your video describes it way better then I did!
The first thing you need to know about dial indicators (which I learned from the machinists I used to work with) is that they tend to loose their accuracy above 3,000 RPM. ;)
or when u accidently press home on not z axis but x axis in front of ur vice..
@@TwoMarko that wouldn’t hurt it. Doing y would hurt it
@@sambenao7 doing would destroy it for sure , but im talking from experiance x was enought to damage it to point needle was not responding ... I gues it aswell depends on how fast ur mashine is... It pushed vice all the way to home...
But if u dont believe me feel free to test it urself ...
Had someone borrow my edge finder only to spin it at 5000 RPM. You could jump rope with it afterwards.
Adam as a Machinist by Trade and a self-taught engineer for a company that develops manufactures and distributes specialty alloys. I must point out that you're doing it wrong. LOL I must say I am a huge fan and grew up watching Mythbusters and would always cringe watching you running a lathe or a milling machine. I would however commend you for being upfront about reaching out to others for help and your desire to learn more about this trade reminds me of my self want to be and engineer and work hard to be able to practice it without a degree. I am writing this comment to you simple to educate and hope it will add to your vast plethora of knowledge. But please add a light oil to the .200 barrel of the edge finder and run between 1000 rpm and 1500 rpm. this will help increase your accuracy. I particularly use 1200 RPm. Again Thank you for all you have taught us through the years and thanks for the Video's. P.S. MollyDee is my tap fluid of choice as well!
I've done milling only 1 time. And have just flirted w/ idea of doing more. But GOODNESS, I loved the precision that tool can provide!
I'm not a maker but I absolutely love watching tool tip videos like this. I could listen to Adam explain just about anything because his enthusiasm makes it fun.
YES... We finally arrived at the tool tip... and no worries about the length of the video, I enjoyed the journey you took us on... we did arrive at the Haimer 3D edge finder with all of it's glorious context! 😁
Watching your skills in machining evolve over the last few years has been one of the more fascinating journeys I’ve watched in a while. Keep it up Adam, never stop learning.
I find that almost every episode Adam will mention Jamie by telling a funny anecdote or something Jamie taught him over the years. I think a lot of Mythbusters fans were upset when they found out that Jamie and Adam struggled to work together, but if listening to the way Adam talks about him has shown me anything is that they were still friends, and I think they respected each other, they just had strong and differing opinions about how a certain job should get done. Some friends shouldn't work together, that's just the way of the world. I'll be forever grateful for the fact that they stuck with it for as long as they did, because I don't want to live in a world where there is even a single episode of Mythbusters less than we have.
I could happily listen to you explain anything 24/7 honestly
I'm a machinist for almost 30 years now.. i have used them all.. Wigglers, Haimers, the electronic ones, and also 3D touchprobes on CNC machines.. , on a CNC i prefer the 3D probe above all, though the Haimer comes a close second..
Lever gauges are also very versatile.. i have 3 of them in my shop, one for every machine... need to buy a 4th one, as i have recently bought a new lathe.. :)
I never had issues with "doin' the math, as you need to do that for every mill you use as well..
(the Haimer is also a great tool for centering in holes if your DRO has the Half function.. and if you want to be really precise, use a lever gauge after that.. put it in the spindle and rotate by hand.. if the needle doesn't move.. you're centered..
This is by far the most amazing tool tip I've ever seen. As someone just learning to cnc, this tool tip is amazing!! Thank you so much Adam!
Renishaw for cnc.
I love the Haimer 3D edge finder, as a machinist I use it dozens of times a day we have 8+ of them in our shop. Adam I'm sure you already know this but make sure you indicate that ball in at least once a month depending on your usage (there should be 4 set screws around the bottom to the gauge used to center the ball with the spindle. We usually do ours every other week or so. Also when buying replacement tips be careful there are some with a 4mm ball and others with a 5mm ball, don't ask me how I learned this.
how many parts were ruined before you figured out the size difference?
@@Iamtheexodus2 The parts I make are usually toleranced at ± .002". So it was pretty obvious that something was very wrong and I only killed one part. It did take far far too long trying to figure out why my part was off by .04" though.
Wow what a change :D I have dreamed about Haimer for 2 years now. Finally decided to get one and ordered it last week, received it just earlier today.
Congrats! Enjoy and welcome to the HAIMER family! 😎
I love Tool Tips and One Day Builds because it's like being in high school shop class with the absolute coolest teacher.
Everytime one ends I imagine a class bell ringing.
It’s impossible how much technicalities this guy knows.
Amazing, Adam!
"This Old Tony" is a great is an absolute great watching channel and so are you Adam. Thanks
Adam Savage and TOT... Two worlds colliding in the best way possible
Hey Adam! Big fan been watching myth busters for years in the UK! Have been loving these videos, have to say as a time served machinist for nearly 10 years you explained everything perfectly! And always with such passion. I and many people have know the frustration of forgetting to move half of the edge finder (“wobbler” we call them in the UK :D) but those 3D gauges are life savers and so convenient.
Similar to the edge finder the same can be done with an old shank of a tool and a feeler gauge if you’re on a budget. Keep up the awesome videos!
It wouldnt take too many times of making a mistake with the wrong stock to pay off $400. very cool
If it goes wrong on step 1 of the project, yes. If it goes wrong on step 67, a million times yes. Not to mention the thing you broke when you threw whatever was in your hand across the room
Uh, yeah. A friend of mine was working on a project with iridium and niobium. He made a cut in each that was off by 1/200th of an inch. Even with the days of down time, it was cheaper to bring in a dedicated furnace and molds, painstakingly pick up all the swarf and melt it all down into a desirable shape and try again, than to buy new stock.
Came here to post this, Adam only mentions the 4x factor time saved on zeroing in his mill, but time and stock saved due to less chance of errors is a way bigger impact I think
That was how I budgeted for 10 of these for our shop. I pulled all of our scrap reports for the last year based on dimensions being off by .100 and used that as a baseline for cutting scrap down. Easy to budget about 5 grand for a set of 10 and tips when we had over 70k in scrap due to edge finding in a year... haha
I will never have any of these things yet I watched because its Savage and he's fun to watch.
I have the slightly bigger Haimer 3d Taster and it's my absolut favorite tool for my manual Aciera F4 mill. I use it to measure work pieces too, and dept of holes/steps, centre of circles etc etc. I also can't understand how 99% of manual machinists don't use one or don't think it's worth the investment. Madness!
So obviously super useful. I recently bought a 150 mm Mitutoyo digital caliper, I think based on your recommendation. Best tool I've bought since my Makita DF030DWE Cordless Driver Drill, and I don't even make anything :). Lovely tools often cost a bit of cash, but it's always worth it!
Hi Adam, $400 well spent, not to mention very helpful to me. Thanks
Thanks Adam. Simple, once explained. I take in all sorts of machining hints, tips, tricks, etc. and find I use them in my non-machining world. This one is tucked away for later!
Regards (and hello to TOT)
Love this channel. Believe it or not, the Haimer is while fast, not as accurate as a good edge finder. MOST of the time it's not an issue, and speed is good!
This was probably my favorite tool tip so far and most likely precisely because of it’s convolution. Thank you Adam for being so human and honestly open in your interaction with us dear friends that you have never met in person.
I greatly enjoy the context you give us when you describe tasks and tools, giving people like me with such basic skills some understanding. Perhaps this is one of the great features of the MythBusters show and what made it so very popular! Thanks indeed!
Not sure if it was on purpose, but I appreciate how you offset and re-zero in the wrong direction and immediately say "Every time you're doing math like that, is an opportunity to make a mistake." :)
Anything made By Haimer is the top shelf of the machining industry...I have one of the newer 3D edge finders and then I bought the Centro for holes supreme accuracy
I so deeply enjoy learning with you Adam.
What you forgot to mention, is that you actually need to calibrate the Haimer, using a dial indicator first, before it's of any use for dialing in your workpiece ;-) Good video on explaining the merits of the Haimer. I actually bought one as a birthday present to myself to use on both my manual and my CNC mill. It's one of those things you can ponder about for ages, but in the end you just have to take the plunge. In contrary to what you said, I've never seen it as a "mainly CNC accessory". Instead I'd say it's more of an upgrade to using wigglers. On CNC equipment probes are the way to go (and again a lot faster than a Haimer)
If I ever get a different job and we don't have Renishaw probes this is definitely first on my list of new tools to buy.
"plumb square and level" this is a very valuable post, good one
I am struck by something Adam said. We all, throughout our lives, often wonder what our legacy will be. Well, it sort of blows my mind that the person (or persons) that made this machine in 1968/69 may well be long gone from this mortal coil, and yet Adam is still using it to make wonderful objects that, in turn, inspire us to do the same. That, I submit, is quite a legacy indeed.
I'm sitting here going "That's a lot of money to just avoid doing math!" like I haven't messed that up and crashed a mill before...
I've written programs in my calculator to do the math needed for offset adjustments.
Adam: "This is my milling machine."
Me: "Hey, is that a new vice?"
My thoughts, too. Nice and shiny. Won't take long to fix that.
I was wondering who KURT was. 🤣
I used Kurt's for years. Th hen when we went to CNC on our Bridgeports we tried out a different style vise. The fixed jaw is in the front. They can be used conventionally or stood on their sides. The fixed jaw is mounted with screws from the bottom and the end. The screw and thrust bearing mount in the solid jaw. The solid jaw has for all intense and purposes no flex when you tighten the vise. The vise is safer to use because when you put parts in and position them against the solid jaw you pulling the piece towards you. If you slip you are not going towards the cutter. For CNC operations you are always working in the +/+ quadrant. For the same opening the vise takes up less room than a regular Kurt. Sad thing is these vices didn't take off in the market. Kurt now makes a similiar type of pull vise but they ain't cheap
i bought 3-4 of these for work years ago. they work awesome!!!!
Hell. I'm not a machinist at all, but I'm really excited about the time/labor saving benefits of your Haimer gauge. Specifically for someone who lives in an area that is world renown for the fact that the Earth moves regularly and precision consistent edge can be a significant issue when your machines get bounced around a bit.
I have one! They are awesome. I mostly use it in my CNC though. But yes, they are expensive.
Who needs Haas Automation Tip of the Day when you have Adam Tool tips
Nice to hear some short stories behind your tools like the Starrett indicator Adam.
I just found your channel was wondering what you have been doing , I like you explaining of the tools and tips for manual machining keep them going !
Best regards from Kentucky
I invested in a 3D Taster (German for 'touch') several years ago. Haimer aren't the only players in the game and I bought a Tschorn 3d taster for considerably less. They're also quite a bit more compact.
Agreed. Have used, but don't own. Very nice tool.
"We all understand this" nooo, nooo no... "some" understand how things are, some understand other stuff... welcome to my life explaining what I find day in day out. Great content
"why would you buy this" you ask. Why wouldn't you? This is just beautiful, this is peak technology and inovation. I want to learn how that little fella works, im reallly intreegued
How about a quick O.D.B. On how you made those pool ball handles?
Side note: “ThisOldTony” channel is FANTASTIC!!!
IKR? I'm seriously thinking about doing pool ball handles on EVERYTHING.
take ball, drill hole, tap hole, screw onto handle, would be more a 5 minute build, though with how adam goes off on a tangent so easily it could be a one year build
@@webrosc LOL!
Adam, this is awesome! Love this. You and your buddies should start an online Machinist program. Pack it with referenced videos. It is time, Adam!
I’ve never used a mill, and this is still totally awesome.
Please be careful while moving your hands around the cutters, as you know they are sharp, especially since you are excited about showing us this great new tool. Great video. Machinist since 1967.
Wait, Adam Savage and ToT know each other? My RUclips world is always getting smaller and smaller... really hoping for a collab at some point! :D
Adam, I've noticed that you tend to bring the quill down when trying to reach things in your vice.
You should try to bring the knee and the vice up to the tool, not bring the tool down to the work.
The main reason for this is rigidity, but there's also a LOT of force acting on the quill, so using it at max extension will wear out the quill bearing surfaces over time and that slowly increases the risk of the quill moving on your during a cut.
The same thing somewhat holds true for the drill press when used as a spindle sander, it's always better to bring the table up so that the force on the quill has a shorter 'lever' to work with.
STEM beats everything else. Thanks for the demonstration.
This is the first tool i bought for my tormach, then ordered a new tip after the first day.....
I use a edge finder and hamer daily. Great stuff
Ahhhhhhhhhhrrrrghh! Never thought about using calipers on a table saw like that! Thanks Adam.
Fantastic,another machinist tool I need and can't afford.
$400 isnt that bad... I have individual mics that cost more than that. My 24" calipers were $1600 lol
Adam, That sound the table made when tramming the vice. It really should not! Too loose and or dry - Check and adjust your backlash & gib and make sure the oil is flowing proper.
Really appreciate your enthusiasm. I came across the Haimer 3D Taster visiting another shop. It took almost a full five minutes to order on my phone. Second to my Mitutoyo digital calipers, best money ever spent.
I have a CNC machine in my maker shop and quickly realized I needed one of these. Allowing me to set tool height based off of it then using it to locate parts in the machine made everything so much more enjoyable. The lack of setting a tool height on the bridgeport seems like it would limit it's usefulness. I haven't tried it on mine. Using it to tram in the vise would be helpful though I could surely see that.
I should have done a video on mine as like you my machines are all imperial units and my Haimer was metric. Unlike you I am unable to get metric tool holders for my machine. I ended up pulling the Haimer apart creating a fixture to hold the shaft and putting it in the lathe. Using a tenths indicator I very carefully turned it down to exactly either .7500 or .6250. That was a stressful day, that Haimer cost a significant chuck of the cost of the entire CNC machine.
I LOVE hearing about crossovers between my favorite youtubers!
The biggest advantage of using a probe sensor is avoiding measurement errors. It's not until you screw up a part that you understand the 1 out of 500 times you forget to half your edge finder is too much of a risk.
I love my Haimer!
They say context is for kings ;-)
Absolutely fantastic piece of kit.
Adam must be one of the few people who manage to look younger as he's got older, at least compared to the early myth buster days
Nice! Our shop has Renishaw Probes on all our CNCs but this would definitely be the way to go for a manual mill.
If you like the weapon displays in the V&A in London, then you should visit (if you've not done so already) the Royal Armouries museum in Leeds.
Swords, daggers, spears, pikes, halberds, armour, even elephant armour. It's amazing!
ImMa LeArNiNg KoMpUtA
I almost bursted my tea on the screen
So, to be concise, this is effectively the manual equivalent of a Renishaw®probe. Very cool and a definite time saver.
I will never touch a mill, but i still loved this video. Super interesting!
This is sort of like a Coaxial indicator being used for edge finding. Nice. Normally, coax indicators are used for locating the spindle up to a hole ID.
The usefulness of this expands in a CNC setting if only for the reason of the 3 axis usage with taper tooling that stays at the same tool length rather than an r8 collet which is more difficult to reliably keep a consistent cutter length
They work well for CNC but the faces do get coolant in them so better to leave them out of the machine when not in use. Where these really shine is on a horizontal tho. I run a large boring mill and trying to see an edge finder pop from 8 feet away and 10 feet in the air sucks. You can preset the tool length and use it to set Z if you just call up the tool height.
Cats make the best edge finders. They will knock everything off the edge of anything.
Repeatability: 100%. Accuracy? Not so hot.
Cats are also reliable edge finders because they will look you straight in the eyes while they knock your precious belongings off and make sure you are taking notes for the important scientific research they conduct.
Thank you for the explanation. Well worth lengthy precursor not all of have a mill at home.
One critique. When edge finding in y it is better to indicate off the hard jaw to eliminate small variations in your material. Also clamping pressure variations can also slightly move your center if you measure off the movable jaw side.
I certainly could have used a Haimer edge finder during my 44 years of working at the GM Tech Center as a journeyman machinist.
Y axis is really easy. Just put a ground in a collet. Loosen the vise jaws and just slide the part over until it makes contact with the rod. Tighten the vise jaws and you are now the radius of the rod offset. If you want to get fancy mill away half the rod. Then when you slide the part over you’re on centerline.
I just learned about a dozen new words that I never knew existed in my 78 years of education.
When Adam kicks the bucket, that Bridgeport and all the tools to it are MINE.
At 15.15......It's Haimer time!
Love me some this old Tony