Interesting video with some valid personal experience shared freely with anyone who wants to perhaps learn something or broaden their knowledge base. Is it for everyone, maybe not, but I do not see all the negative commentators going out and making the effort to start a channel and sharing video content of their "expert" experience. Thank you for your effort and sharing your insights, looking forward to more content.
If my 28 Nosler had been that easy. Had to do a lot of work because my Nosler brass was so inconsistent. I was able to get my hands on some ADG brass eventually. I love this cartridge. The first time I ever tried one mile I hit an 18” x 36” steel on first shot. Took me five or six shots to connect on the MOA gong at a mile but was able to put a few on. Then we backed up to 1.25 miles, I couldn’t get on the MOA gong there but did connect a few times on the bigger one. Maybe one day I can get a custom 28 from you. Mines a Bergara Wilderness B14 HMR. I install an Area 419 Sidewinder Brake, A Trigger Tech trigger and a NF ATACR 7-35X
I love my Bergara 28 Nosler. Running 175 ELDX's at 3180 with 87.0 gr RL33 and Fed 215's. 26" barrel. Consistent.3" groups. Very manageable recoil with a good muzzle brake.
Nice rifle clearly. I think the reason so many fail the one shot challenge is because they don't count the cold bore in their groups enough. By far the two things I worry about the most is the cold bore shot has to hit the same spot every time weather it is 70 degrees or below 0. And obviously group shift is unexceptable. I also don't trust the eldx on anything bigger than a deer, so anything sub moa that meets the other critera is plenty good. Quarter moa for hunting is pointless if it's the wrong bullet, or the cold boor is off. Nice shooting.
Very interesting. Have you tried putting about a 3” Circle on a large target at 300 yards and perform a ladder test? Start at the lowest charge and then walk down to the target and wright down the charge after each shot. Yes I know it takes much longer but you will get much better results. Go up 1/2 grain increments. Do not adjust your scope between shots. Adjusting your scope between shots will not help you find what speed your barrel likes. It’s not just about finding the node. You want to eliminate your barrel whip as well. A .25 MOA 2 or 3 shot group at 100 yards is really good. But .25” 5 shot group at 300 yards will be a game changer.
I think that your method may not be ideal to some, it is actually effective and repeatable. Loading with fire formed brass is best practice and a great way to get GREAT information the first time. A great F Class shooter (Keith Glasscock) does something very similar and I doubt anyone of the people commenting on here have as many first place finishes as he does. Long story short, you both do basically the same load development, and so do I. It is great that you also promote confirming at further distances after the first load development to confirm.
great video! food for thought and i wont try and tell other shooters what to believe lol. BUT... What you are describing is commonly called the Satterly method. Its looking for flat velocity node and I've been through that a few times. I did OCW for the longest time so tried satterly as an alternative. Heres the problem with Satterly, according to hornady and other ballisticians there is no such thing as velocity flat spots. The appearance of flat spots is just a bi product of small sample sizes. If you did the same test 50 times you'd see a ballistically even average with no flat spots. An easy way to test that is run it 3 times. If they don't match up exactly, then what we thought was a flat spot was just an anomaly. Not averaging groups of three to find flat spots, but 3 exactly the same test. For example my 7mm08 had a flat spot at 43.8 to 44.4gn. After that I did seating depth. Next time at range it wasnt holding the same SD for me so I went back to bench and ran the same test again. No flat spot at 43.8 to 44.4 appeared. Speeds were the same (2650) though. If it was truly a velocity node then it would have stayed in same spot. I was a victim of too small of a sample to really test it. After much ado I went back to OCW then seating depth for final tuning. SD is king when it comes to long rang. Great presentation and good luck with the channel.
Watching you shoot your muzzle break is really doing its job very well, reducing recoil. The way it disperses the muzzle blast and recoil is on Q from what i can see . What brand of muzzle break are you using ? God bless you and your family.God bless america 🇺🇸🇨🇱 🇺🇲 🇨🇱 🇺🇲🇨🇱🇺🇲🇨🇱.
I was in the Hornady reloading seminar at the SCI Convention 2024. The technicians have found that doing a ladder development is a waste of time and money as they have seen what is a good load on one day may not be the next day., so they go for one load and shoot for minimum dispersion over a few days.
I’m guessing they had no chronograph along with the ladder? This is kinda two methods at one time . The chrono numbers I value over groups before I do my seating depth test. I’ve done this method on well over 100 rifles with great results .
Just food for thought, but since you are playing with seating depth, you obviously believe seating depth matters. So do I. I also believe primer seating depth and ignition timing matter just as much. So, my point is, until you fireform the brass and have a consistent minimum headspace, you have neither consistent ignition timing or bullet jump.
Velocity “nodes” are the result of small sample size testing, they are unlikely to repeat if you replicate the test. They occur because of shot-shot changes in resistance pressure in pushing the bullet thru the bore, making the flat spots in your velocity ladder totally meaningless.
Wouldn't Ogive to Base measurements be a more accurate method for rifling engagement vs COAL? Do you tip your bullets for meplat? Use Hornady's modified case tool ?
What do you think is the primary reason for the mild recoil? Looking at you shooting, that rifle barely pushes back into your shoulder. As a disabled vet with neck and shoulder issues, I am thinking that maybe I could bump up in caliber given the right setup. Might need to talk with you about a rifle build.
@@usafret4709 Call me anytime . 814 547 2441 The low recoil comes from a combo of a 10 lb rifle with a directional brake that reduces the recoil by around 70 percent.
@@usafret4709 the Browning X-Bolt Elite Hunter (and others) come with a HOG Recoil brake. The Target Max model I got came with Browning's version of a McMillin Target stock, Target trigger, 26" fluted Stainless Steel barrel with that brake. Caught it on a promo sale for under $800.
honestly thats the more important part of seating test if you ask me. Of course i like tiny groups like everyone else, but Im looking for those tiny SD's.
in my experience, from the last 20 years of reloading and shooting those three shot groups, they are virtually irrelevant. the results from shooting that again can be completely opposite, and you dont know that until you shoot them again. I hate to say it, but hornady is right about the sample size needed to really determine what the accuracy ofa rifle is.
Seating depth first. Seating depth first and seating depth first. You'll thank me later, after you try it. Also, I think you said this is a brand new barrel unless I misunderstood. Until you get 100 plus rounds through it, you are completely wasting your time on the powder test. Seating testing is fairly valid on a new barrel though 👍
You should repeat this load development test another day and see if you get the same results. I would bet that you won’t. This is a textbook example of jumping to conclusions based on limited sample size
The real truth will be if it will hold true at distance. In my 28 im using Retumbo and 168 gr Barnes LRX. My final load was over book max but still no signs of pressure. Ended up with a .290" group at 100 yards. Now as soon as weather permits I'll go at distance and see if it holds true. My rifle is a store bought Browning X-Bolt with 1-8 twist on a 26" barrel. I'm getting just under 3100 fps with the 168 gr barnes LRX.
I picked up a Browning X-Bolt Target Max on a promo sale for under $800 a few months back. Didn't need another 6.5 "Need"moor but wasn't willing to let a buy like that slip past me.
Are you concerned about the lack of reliable ejection? It looks like the rounds are impacting the windage turret. You might want to consider trying taller rings and a cheek riser pad.
I’ll do my best to not make folks feel bad in this chat but my 26” 7 mag with Norma brass is running 3050 with a 195. Powder n570. Saami chamber. Has not been throated.
H1000 isnt good for velocity with that bullet. N570, re33, LRT, even retumbo would be better and faster. My 28 with 28” with lrt will run the 195 over 3200 but find best accuracy at 3130’s.
Most times I don’t break em in because of the amount of shots it takes . I just tweek em over after break in if needed. I think a new barrel is as easy as after it’s broke in .
I bet it is hard to justify 150-200 rounds of true barrel break in (until the barrel speeds up) when the barrel life is +/- 900 rounds. Perhaps easier to justify if it is solely a hunting rifle vs practice.
I would assume that most everyone showing up to shoot on Eric’s channel would have his rifle all tuned and ready as they can be . When they shoot at only 500 yds and hit higher or lower than the one MOA target it would seem to me that they have vertical issues going on. Left and right misses can be blamed on wind but vertical is a shooter error or a load issue IMO
@elevationrifles thats a lot of assumptions there🤔, and quite presumtuous to make claim like that while not being there. especially in an effort to promote yourself or justify your group sizes. I'd like to see your results on eriks ethical hunter challenge. you should walk the walk and do his challenge. with my experience traveling and shooting at unfamiliar ranges and locations and how a rifles zero can be effected, it seems you don't have enough experience.
@@reloadingfun wow that was kind of a jerk way to come off. How about this, if you were gonna film yourself to be on YT wouldnt you tune your load first? Thats a pretty fair assumption. And yeah, vertical issues are generally speaking SD related, IE load, Some people dont watch that very tightly and pay the price as the range increase. If you miss 10 inches to the right, wind is not your friend. If you didnt tune or the load first, then shame on you and you deserve the miss. While it is definitely fair to say zero and ballistics change/suffer as location changes, most people that go to different places a lot have learned how to use a ballistic calculator to compensate. I guess you dont have enough experience using one of those. Frankly, a good load in a good rifle doesnt change that much unless you have wildly different weather. Especially at 500 yards, which really isnt that far for a decent rifle/shooter. I imagine that a 1/4 MOA rifle/shooter/load may double or triple the variance if the load loses tune. Thankfully its a 1 MOA challenge.
what determines velocity? its pressure isnt it? so, shouldn't we be looking at what the max velocity in the book is, not what the powder charge is. the moisture content of the same charbe weight of powder can affect velocity 200 fps. go listen to applied ballistics #62 podcast if you want an indepth explanation of this.
11 seconds into the video, you say you deducted ".15". That's 150 thousandths. You run them a long way off the lands buddy. To each their own though.. I'll keep doing my thing, you do you..
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I love the comments. There are many ways to do load development. They all work to varying degrees. Yours works great for you. Good video.
Interesting video with some valid personal experience shared freely with anyone who wants to perhaps learn something or broaden their knowledge base. Is it for everyone, maybe not, but I do not see all the negative commentators going out and making the effort to start a channel and sharing video content of their "expert" experience. Thank you for your effort and sharing your insights, looking forward to more content.
@@philippotgieter6654 Thanks ! Appreciate ya
It's fun seeing how someone else does this. Very scientific! Love it
Great video and very informative. Well done.
Good stuff. Looking forward to the next one. Thank you.
If my 28 Nosler had been that easy. Had to do a lot of work because my Nosler brass was so inconsistent. I was able to get my hands on some ADG brass eventually.
I love this cartridge. The first time I ever tried one mile I hit an 18” x 36” steel on first shot. Took me five or six shots to connect on the MOA gong at a mile but was able to put a few on. Then we backed up to 1.25 miles, I couldn’t get on the MOA gong there but did connect a few times on the bigger one.
Maybe one day I can get a custom 28 from you. Mines a Bergara Wilderness B14 HMR. I install an Area 419 Sidewinder Brake, A Trigger Tech trigger and a NF ATACR 7-35X
I love my Bergara 28 Nosler. Running 175 ELDX's at 3180 with 87.0 gr RL33 and Fed 215's. 26" barrel. Consistent.3" groups. Very manageable recoil with a good muzzle brake.
Nice rifle clearly.
I think the reason so many fail the one shot challenge is because they don't count the cold bore in their groups enough.
By far the two things I worry about the most is the cold bore shot has to hit the same spot every time weather it is 70 degrees or below 0.
And obviously group shift is unexceptable.
I also don't trust the eldx on anything bigger than a deer, so anything sub moa that meets the other critera is plenty good.
Quarter moa for hunting is pointless if it's the wrong bullet, or the cold boor is off.
Nice shooting.
Very interesting. Have you tried putting about a 3” Circle on a large target at 300 yards and perform a ladder test? Start at the lowest charge and then walk down to the target and wright down the charge after each shot. Yes I know it takes much longer but you will get much better results. Go up 1/2 grain increments. Do not adjust your scope between shots. Adjusting your scope between shots will not help you find what speed your barrel likes. It’s not just about finding the node. You want to eliminate your barrel whip as well. A .25 MOA 2 or 3 shot group at 100 yards is really good. But .25” 5 shot group at 300 yards will be a game changer.
I think that your method may not be ideal to some, it is actually effective and repeatable. Loading with fire formed brass is best practice and a great way to get GREAT information the first time. A great F Class shooter (Keith Glasscock) does something very similar and I doubt anyone of the people commenting on here have as many first place finishes as he does. Long story short, you both do basically the same load development, and so do I. It is great that you also promote confirming at further distances after the first load development to confirm.
Fifteen- onethousands of an inch is expressed as 0.015" N0T 0.150"
great video! food for thought and i wont try and tell other shooters what to believe lol. BUT... What you are describing is commonly called the Satterly method. Its looking for flat velocity node and I've been through that a few times. I did OCW for the longest time so tried satterly as an alternative. Heres the problem with Satterly, according to hornady and other ballisticians there is no such thing as velocity flat spots. The appearance of flat spots is just a bi product of small sample sizes. If you did the same test 50 times you'd see a ballistically even average with no flat spots. An easy way to test that is run it 3 times. If they don't match up exactly, then what we thought was a flat spot was just an anomaly. Not averaging groups of three to find flat spots, but 3 exactly the same test. For example my 7mm08 had a flat spot at 43.8 to 44.4gn. After that I did seating depth. Next time at range it wasnt holding the same SD for me so I went back to bench and ran the same test again. No flat spot at 43.8 to 44.4 appeared. Speeds were the same (2650) though. If it was truly a velocity node then it would have stayed in same spot. I was a victim of too small of a sample to really test it. After much ado I went back to OCW then seating depth for final tuning. SD is king when it comes to long rang. Great presentation and good luck with the channel.
Watching you shoot your muzzle break is really doing its job very well, reducing recoil. The way it disperses the muzzle blast and recoil is on Q from what i can see . What brand of muzzle break are you using ? God bless you and your family.God bless america 🇺🇸🇨🇱 🇺🇲 🇨🇱 🇺🇲🇨🇱🇺🇲🇨🇱.
I was in the Hornady reloading seminar at the SCI Convention 2024. The technicians have found that doing a ladder development is a waste of time and money as they have seen what is a good load on one day may not be the next day., so they go for one load and shoot for minimum dispersion over a few days.
I’m guessing they had no chronograph along with the ladder?
This is kinda two methods at one time . The chrono numbers I value over groups before I do my seating depth test. I’ve done this method on well over 100 rifles with great results .
Interesting methodology. Would these same loads hold up under 10-shot group scrutiny?
👀 you’re one of the only ones doing this consistently
@@W5rr2nG it's got to be repeatable 😁
Just food for thought, but since you are playing with seating depth, you obviously believe seating depth matters. So do I. I also believe primer seating depth and ignition timing matter just as much. So, my point is, until you fireform the brass and have a consistent minimum headspace, you have neither consistent ignition timing or bullet jump.
8 in
Velocity “nodes” are the result of small sample size testing, they are unlikely to repeat if you replicate the test. They occur because of shot-shot changes in resistance pressure in pushing the bullet thru the bore, making the flat spots in your velocity ladder totally meaningless.
Wouldn't Ogive to Base measurements be a more accurate method for rifling engagement vs COAL? Do you tip your bullets for meplat? Use Hornady's modified case tool ?
If you look back to 19:22 ,he is obviously measuring cartridge base to ogive with a Hornady tool
What do you think is the primary reason for the mild recoil? Looking at you shooting, that rifle barely pushes back into your shoulder. As a disabled vet with neck and shoulder issues, I am thinking that maybe I could bump up in caliber given the right setup. Might need to talk with you about a rifle build.
@@usafret4709 Call me anytime . 814 547 2441
The low recoil comes from a combo of a 10 lb rifle with a directional brake that reduces the recoil by around 70 percent.
@@elevationrifles I will give you a call. What time zone are you on? Thanks.
@@usafret4709 the Browning X-Bolt Elite Hunter (and others) come with a HOG Recoil brake.
The Target Max model I got came with Browning's version of a McMillin Target stock, Target trigger, 26" fluted Stainless Steel barrel with that brake. Caught it on a promo sale for under $800.
I'm curious why you are not chronographing your seating depth shots? It would be interesting to see the deviation in speed on those shots as well.
honestly thats the more important part of seating test if you ask me. Of course i like tiny groups like everyone else, but Im looking for those tiny SD's.
well that kind of threw me 75 grains That's quite a bit how's the chamber stay nice and cool or does it get pretty hot how's barrel life on that thing
@@365maga1 It was cold outside so hot was no issue. I’d say barrel life will be somewhere around 800-1000 rds with this velocity
in my experience, from the last 20 years of reloading and shooting those three shot groups, they are virtually irrelevant. the results from shooting that again can be completely opposite, and you dont know that until you shoot them again. I hate to say it, but hornady is right about the sample size needed to really determine what the accuracy ofa rifle is.
6.5x55 have very long throats. U can’t get close to the lands and groves 1:8 twist and most rifles shoot sub MOA.
Nice
Seating depth first. Seating depth first and seating depth first. You'll thank me later, after you try it. Also, I think you said this is a brand new barrel unless I misunderstood. Until you get 100 plus rounds through it, you are completely wasting your time on the powder test. Seating testing is fairly valid on a new barrel though 👍
I heard a wise man say once there is a seating node every twelve thou 6 thou wide. Powder charge is not as important as most think.
You should repeat this load development test another day and see if you get the same results.
I would bet that you won’t. This is a textbook example of jumping to conclusions based on limited sample size
The real truth will be if it will hold true at distance. In my 28 im using Retumbo and 168 gr Barnes LRX. My final load was over book max but still no signs of pressure. Ended up with a .290" group at 100 yards. Now as soon as weather permits I'll go at distance and see if it holds true. My rifle is a store bought Browning X-Bolt with 1-8 twist on a 26" barrel. I'm getting just under 3100 fps with the 168 gr barnes LRX.
I picked up a Browning X-Bolt Target Max on a promo sale for under $800 a few months back. Didn't need another 6.5 "Need"moor but wasn't willing to let a buy like that slip past me.
SD is king at distance. doesnt matter what speed it is if you got a 30 SD.
Are you concerned about the lack of reliable ejection?
It looks like the rounds are impacting the windage turret. You might want to consider trying taller rings and a cheek riser pad.
@@trevorkolmatycki4042 A lil i noticed that as well .
I’ll do my best to not make folks feel bad in this chat but my 26” 7 mag with Norma brass is running 3050 with a 195. Powder n570. Saami chamber. Has not been throated.
H1000 isnt good for velocity with that bullet. N570, re33, LRT, even retumbo would be better and faster. My 28 with 28” with lrt will run the 195 over 3200 but find best accuracy at 3130’s.
Pretty sure that muzzle blast blew the paint off that red suv thing lol
10 pounds bare gun? No scope or bipod weight in that 10 pounds?
@@brinkerhoff8 10 lbs is as it it is setup without the bipod .
Most of my custom rifles are just shy of max loading per coal Velocity isn’t number one in my book consistency is
I’m curious if you prefer to do load development with a brand new barrel or after break in?
Most times I don’t break em in because of the amount of shots it takes . I just tweek em over after break in if needed. I think a new barrel is as easy as after it’s broke in .
I bet it is hard to justify 150-200 rounds of true barrel break in (until the barrel speeds up) when the barrel life is +/- 900 rounds. Perhaps easier to justify if it is solely a hunting rifle vs practice.
when you mention eriks' 500yd challenge, how do you know their load is having vertical issues when they are only taking one shot?
I would assume that most everyone showing up to shoot on Eric’s channel would have his rifle all tuned and ready as they can be . When they shoot at only 500 yds and hit higher or lower than the one MOA target it would seem to me that they have vertical issues going on. Left and right misses can be blamed on wind but vertical is a shooter error or a load issue IMO
@elevationrifles thats a lot of assumptions there🤔, and quite presumtuous to make claim like that while not being there. especially in an effort to promote yourself or justify your group sizes. I'd like to see your results on eriks ethical hunter challenge. you should walk the walk and do his challenge.
with my experience traveling and shooting at unfamiliar ranges and locations and how a rifles zero can be effected, it seems you don't have enough experience.
@@reloadingfun wow that was kind of a jerk way to come off. How about this, if you were gonna film yourself to be on YT wouldnt you tune your load first? Thats a pretty fair assumption. And yeah, vertical issues are generally speaking SD related, IE load, Some people dont watch that very tightly and pay the price as the range increase. If you miss 10 inches to the right, wind is not your friend. If you didnt tune or the load first, then shame on you and you deserve the miss. While it is definitely fair to say zero and ballistics change/suffer as location changes, most people that go to different places a lot have learned how to use a ballistic calculator to compensate. I guess you dont have enough experience using one of those. Frankly, a good load in a good rifle doesnt change that much unless you have wildly different weather. Especially at 500 yards, which really isnt that far for a decent rifle/shooter. I imagine that a 1/4 MOA rifle/shooter/load may double or triple the variance if the load loses tune. Thankfully its a 1 MOA challenge.
@McgSpook well, it's the truth.
Are you having ejector issues with that rifle? Didn't seem to eject brass reliably.
@@patrioticguy1791 I think they might have been hitting the scope cap. I noticed it as well
Look at the 300 whippel
Never found advertised max to be anywhere near max.
I would suggest trying federeal 215m primers- if i can send them to you to try i would sendd you 200 to try.
you can send them to me!
.15” is 150 thou, I assume you meant .015”?
Yes, .015 is what he meant and how the adjustments played out.
.15 is NOT 15 thousand of an inch. .015 is.
what determines velocity? its pressure isnt it? so, shouldn't we be looking at what the max velocity in the book is, not what the powder charge is. the moisture content of the same charbe weight of powder can affect velocity 200 fps. go listen to applied ballistics #62 podcast if you want an indepth explanation of this.
How can a man get a build price from you?
Feel free to call me if u wanna chat price and options. I can work you up an estimate. 814 547 2441
Your groups are too small😂
11 seconds into the video, you say you deducted ".15". That's 150 thousandths. You run them a long way off the lands buddy. To each their own though.. I'll keep doing my thing, you do you..
I said it wrong :)
@@elevationrifles yes you did...very confusing
@@gilream I make mistakes sometimes. I apologize if it was confusing.
@@elevationrifles no problem, I knew what you meant.