Do you even want ABS on your motorcycle?
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Are ABS brakes effective on a motorcycle? What are the pros and cons of having ABS? This week we define ABS and look at some reasons for ABS and some reasons why you might not want an ABS system on your motorcycle.
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Check out the full crash study at www.MCrider.com/ABS-Study
I bought my first bike with ABS in 2020. I love having it. Wouldn’t want to go back to not having it.
Hello Kevin, My bike has ABS and my wife's Harley Tri glide does not. I love it. After working for GM 31 years , I can tell everyone, ABS saves lives. Great video
way better than loud pipe
Hahaha especially your wife has no abs
Does any Harley bikes even come with ABS equipped? I'm genuinely asking
I have taken three motor officer courses which have a significant focus on evading, braking and escaping. I have witnessed first hand that SOMETIMES and under perfect conditions, a VERY skilled rider who has practiced multiple times at the same location can stop shorter using threshold braking without ABS than with. However, add any variable, i.e. different surface type( asphalt vs concrete), wet surface, gravel, sand, panic, temperature of surface, different boots and/or gloves---and the list goes on……….ABS stops shorter (and more significantly - without washing out the front tire), every time.
The technology has improved a lot too. It's possible that someone who could out-brake early ABS could not out-brake newer ABS.
That’s a load of Bull. Everything you can achieve with non-ABS you can do with ABS. ABS does nothing until the wheel locks up. A rolling wheel is more effective at braking than a skidding tire. Therefore you can not brake in a shorter distance, the maximum braking threshold is exactly the same. ABS improves over braking, where you would normally lose traction and increase your stopping distance.
When you train braking your goal is not not have ABS kick in while achieving your shortest stopping distance.
Riders either overly rely on ABS and brake too hard or out if fear of ABS activating the don’t brake hard enough. Both conditions will lengthen stopping distance.
The facts are that modern ABS bikes are way better at stopping. Hands down. Arguing otherwise just makes a person look foolish.
The shorter stops during practice is a demonstration of rider skill, not mechanical capabilities.
@@PetrolJunkie It's pretty much a known fact that some riders can outbrake some abs systems in some situations. The first guy stated this while acknowledging that abs is actually better in the vast majority of cases. As far as i can tell, you agreed with him while also calling it bs. Perhaps you should reevaluate who you consider a fool.
@@Lucas12v I have no idea how you managed to get the idea that I agreed with him. I called him out on false statements. Science says a human can not brake any better with or without ABS, it simply is not possible. ABS was not a factor in whether those riders improved their stopping distances, it was rider skill in braking as hard as possible before the tire would skid, or activate ABS, also known as threshold braking.
Multiple experiments under controlled circumstances repeated multiple times in different parts of the world using the best riders and by extension brakers in the world says that is exactly how it works.
They are not out braking ABS. They are actually improving their skills at threshold braking.
@@PetrolJunkie Try an older abs system vs a good rider on gravel or dirt and get back to me. Abs is better in almost every situation but there are exceptions.
ABS imo is the single most important improvement in street bike safety ever. I've been riding since 1967 for what it's worth.
I agree...life saver
@@MCrider Yes sir!
Agreed.
Love ABS, wouldn't buy a street bike without it, but I gotta say the helmet takes the top spot, hands down. It's the only thing that even approaches the seatbelt in cars.
And, not to belabor the point, I might even add quality, professional training and dedicated practice in the #2 slot (such as provided right here on this channel !)
@@irishcurtis1 Helmets are great but ABS is an improvement to the motorcycle whereas a helmet is part of a rider's gear.
Been riding with ABS for 22 years. It has saved my butt more than once! Another great video Sir.
ABS is absolutely a necessary! It has personally saved my tail when some jerk cut me off through an intersection when I had a millisecond to react! It keeps the bike from sliding! It is 100% worth it!
When I see so many instances of riders saying “If I didn’t have ABS, I would have been dead” or similar…I suspect a lot of those riders are hot dogging or not paying attention. I’ve ridden a LOT of miles over a lot of years, and have almost never needed emergency braking. And yes, I do know it and practice frequently. I expect and prepare for the worst all the time. Perhaps I’ve just been lucky, but I’m comfortable saying ABS has never saved my life. And yes, my Wings have had it for several years now. Good talk Kevin. Thanks.
👍🏽
Another pro of ABS is that it's a useful training tool. You can practice hard braking very safely, even on a wet road surface. A lot of people crash because they don't brake hard enough. It's important to get a feel for what maximal braking feels like.
That’s an excellent point.
I second that. Excellent point! 😉👍
Excellent point. I can't say I felt confident practicing emergency braking without ABS. One can start training having ABS kick in a low speed, and when gaining confidence, increase the practice speed to a safe, but still higher speed for more realistic training.
I agree with all of the positive comments. It is still very important to know how to brake properly. My Wing has combined brakes, I still use both front and back brakes as taught in the basic classes.
Yep. The reason why manufacturers are going to proportional braking is that studies show that in a panic stop most riders only pull the front brake. So if the front brake to also engages the rear by a percentage then they can effectively compensate for rider error. It's still better to learn how to use both brakes because the systems engage the rear brake conservatively, so you never get the full braking potential.
The times ABS has saved me have been in relatively slow-speed situations in traffic where drivers did crazy maneuvers that I wasn't able to predict. I wouldn't have died without ABS in those situations, but I probably would have dropped the bike, which would have been inconvenient, embarrassing, and expensive. ABS is worth it just for those situations alone.
An interesting variable in a study that compares only machines that are available with or without ABS is that it also compares riders that made a conscious decision to buy the machine with or without ABS. There’s a difference in risk tolerance there that could translate into other riding attitudes like acceptable level of safety gear or aggressive riding on the street. Just a thought…
I have a 900 lb victory vision tour. It's saved my life several times. If I would have locked the tires, I'd be dead or tragically injured by now.
Many lighter bikes not having it is great. On an almost 9 foot long 900 lb bike IT'S A LIFE SAVER ❤
I had a 2012 Triumph Rocket III Touring and it was not equipped with ABS. It was also a 900 Lb bike and the back brake locked the tire so easily that I eventually stopped using it… and every time it locked, the rear of the bike would start sliding to the right, which meant I had to hold the lockup until the bike was completely stopped. I have a 2022 Versys 1000 now and while it’s “only” a 600 Lb bike, the ABS (along with an incredible electronic suspension) makes it almost impossible to crash the bike unless you’re really doing something dumb on it.
Unfortunate, because it takes a lot of great motorcycles from even being considered, but it’s 2021 and there are some things that don’t make sense to me on a street bike. ABS is a must. Tubeless tires is another.
I stop by my dealership, whose back parking lot has a permanently painted MSF course, 2-3 times a week.. I always include hard braking in my practice routine. My stopping distance keeps getting shorter, and my confidence keeps getting higher.
Practicing hard braking is very important. If you ride with a passenger, it's doubly important. Pun intended. Your passenger needs to experience full braking effort so they don't freak out if you need to do an emergency stopping maneuver.
I've been riding so long, there was no ABS for the first 20+ years of my riding, and I had to learn how to emergency stop the bike without locking up the tire(s). ABS would not get in my way as an experienced rider, so I can't see spending the extra money on it. When I am in the market for a new bike, if I have the option to get ABS or not, I will opt not to. If not given a choice, and I like the bike, I won't let having ABS stop me from buying it, either. A reduction of fatal motorcycle accidents by 22% sounds impressive. But I would need to look at the study, the accidents, the experience of each rider, who conducted the study, who paid for it, etc. There are so many variables that could have had an impact on their numbers, thus their findings. I have seen plenty of data that shows the only time that ABS might be worth the money is on wet roads. Considering most inexperienced riders do not even ride in the rain, paying extra for ABS seems like a waste of money to me. I wouldn't spend the extra money for ABS if given a choice, but if the only option was to have ABS on the bike, I wouldn't let that stop me from buying a bike I liked if it had them. It is my personal opinion that all the gadgets they put on motorcycles today makes for poorly trained riders. Instead of needing to actually LEARN how to ride the bike, people can be a sloppy rider and put their trust in the gadgets to correct their mistakes instead of improving riding skills. Sorry for the book.
Once one really understands the physics behind ABS, they will realise that no amount of years of riding experience can outperform this technology, ever. Bikes that are registered for public roads should to be built for maximal safety, for every participant, experienced or not
@@quarq111 I had to study physics at the university while in graduate school. I do understand the physics. I am just not convinced by their data, or how THEY interpret it. I am not opposed, per se, to ABS, just not a supporter. As far as built for safety, sure, but if safety is truly the issue, why do they always seem to charge SO MUCH MONEY for OUR safety? No, I'm not convinced they are a necessary item on a bike. People should learn how to ride the bike properly. Long before ABS, people got in bike accidents, now that they have been on bikes since the 80s, people STILL get in bike accidents, ABS bikes included!!!
I don't have ABS on my 02 Electra Glide. Hell, I don't even have fuel injection on the old girl, She's carbureted, but I love her as she is, and I do practice emergency braking on her in different weather and road conditions from time to time. My GL-1800 does not have ABS either. Many pre-2018 GoldWing's don't have it although its mandatory in Canada. What it does have is Combined Braking System where both brakes (Front and rear) work in tandem by equalizing the brake pressure when the brake pedal or brake lever is deployed. The GL will stop on a dime with or without ABS and I have yet to lock her up. Please note: I am not saying ABS is not worthwhile. It definitely is. I had it on my 2014 Fatboy and loved it. I am just pointing out that I currently do not have it and need to continually hone my skills.
My 2008 VFR800 Interceptor also has DCBS, and I waited almost a year to find one with ABS (was optional then) as well. Well worth the wait, as in almost 50 years of riding, almost all of my spills have been related to changing road surface conditions. Boy, is this bike a great (and safer) ride!
Been riding 43 years and retired as US VP Engineering/Safety/Quality for BMW. (The FMVSS 101 failure symbol is “ABS” because of my efforts.) Your explanation is excellent and technically very accurate. I would add: ABS endures CONSISTENCY of braking control, and ABS MAXIMIZES braking grip via incipient lock modulation. An expert can only slightly beat ABS only by full lock just at very end of stop. Most riders won’t do this trick. I’ve seen the data and track tests. ABS is a key crash avoidance feature.
How about explaining how modern motorcycle top of the line ABS with IMU modulates front/rear brake application.
I need ONE Question answered:
Do I need to use the rear brake at all with an ABS/IMU control system? If so when?
thanks!!
@@markhall3434 rear brake is used for very low speed no lean cornering, straight line hard acceleration to prevent wheelies, holding park when stopped, entering a corner (sometimes) to get the suspension to squat.
During emergency/panic braking on a BMW with ABS the front brake lever can be squeezed hard because it will activate front and rear brakes, never rear brake alone hard unless you want to slide the rear on dirt etc.
Thanks again for your great videos. Key is knowing how to brake well--which requires practice. And the best braking will be at a braking level that is infinitesimally before the wheel locks up. If you go past that, having ABS to protect for that error is much safer than a lockup, slide out, etc. As your great message notes, ABS is protective, but the best way to ride safe is to practice emergency braking without locking up.
This man knows what he's talking about.
False statement. With ABS in panic situation you grab full brake and it will ALWAYS stop in shortest distance under all conditions except maybe those rare instances under 10 mph where loss of control due to rear wheel lift is less of an issue and the stopping difference might be less than 2 feet. It is equally false, laughable, thinking that any human can modulate brakes better than a modern ABS ECU that can perform this function hundreds of times a second.
It is like comparing early chess computers vs Grand Masters who could routinely defeat them 20 years ago. Now the Grand Masters really have no chance. The world has changed in favor of the machines. Time to accept the new reality.
More than happy with the ABS on my cruiser.
Having been a major crash investigator for 20+ years... yes ABS is of major benefit.... especially for newer riders..
Grow a pair. If you have abs you’re not a traditional rider.
@@Micflare1 Cant become a traditional rider if you become a dead rider... let the kiddies choose their bikes that allow them to then buy classics without abs when they are more experienced.
Abs, yes.
Option to turn it off, also yes.
My ADV didnt come with an ABS off switch. Almost got me killed in Moab coming into a downhill curve on gravel. Full lock brakes but no stopping.
I agree, you should be able to turn it off when off-road.
The reason why you didn't stop is that you locked up. It's a holdover of bad techniques to lock up your wheels to stop off-road. About the only time where locking up your wheels while braking is actually the best choice is to skid the rear around to make a tighter turn.
Rolling wheels generate more stopping power on any surface.
I would suggest doing some threshold braking drills on flat dirt or gravel.
For reference, I ride an R1250GSA off-road. Most of the time I'm on 70/30 tires and I don't turn off the ABS. I ride the same trails guys with knobbies skidding around with no ABS. I haven't regretted it yet.
The key is to not outride the traction you have. That sounds like what you did.
No, your reply is 100% incorrect. The only time you stop faster with ABS is on clean dry hard surfaces. If you lock your brakes on loose surfaces you will stop considerably shorter, providing you can maintain control. ABS on loose surfaces will not allow you to stop your machine, which is what happened to me. I nearly blew a corner and that would have dropped me of a big axx cliff. Once I pulled my ABS fuse, and could lock the wheels, I could actually speed up and take the corners faster while still being able to stop.
@@derweibhai I ride with ABS on all the time. You are not fooling me, you are fooling yourself. You out-road the traction you had and nearly had a serious accident. Instead of admitting your mistake you're blaming the machine because then you don't have to admit that you made a mistake. I've seen lots of guys do this.
Believe what you want.
Why do all true ADV's have an ABS off switch? If you ride like a 90 year old, sure ABS is ok all the time. Go run the White Rim Trail in Canyonlands and see how well that works for you. All new ADV's can switch to front only ABS for a reason.
Ive owned 6 motorcycles and never had ABS because of the price plus never thought i needed it. I finally just bought a Heritage w/ ABS on it and now that I have it I'll never buy another bike without it again. Its good to learn without ABS and learn how to brake properly in an emergency situation but if you have the option to get it I would.
I used to be on the fence about ABS on bikes, but I now believe ABS is a good thing especially for newer riders. Having said that, out of the 9 bikes I own, only one has ABS and that's only because it just happen to have it, I buy all my bikes used.
My biggest gripe is that there are two almost mutually exclusive elements in the standard advice given to new/returning riders: you are always told to buy a used bike rather than a new one as your first ride, and you are always told to buy a bike with ABS. However, there aren't a whole lot of older, inexpensive used small to midsized bikes that actually HAVE ABS! It's a bit of an dilemma... damned hard to get both, especially in areas where bikes are less numerous overall.
I feel ya. The ones Im looking at are the XJ6 (ABS was optional until 2015) or the MT07 (more common and most if not all have ABS) . Unfortunately I think the MT07 has a snappy response and too much engine brake. I also prefer the smoothness of 4 cyl. Less likely to lose control if I whiskey throttle it
If I'm coaching a new rider my advice would be to ONLY buy a bike with ABS or not buy one at all until you can afford one. The probability of a newbie getting into accident is many times higher than a more experienced rider. It is the modest cost difference for the right bike vs. Incurring a permanent lifetime disability or loss of life. What is your life and well-being worth? If it's not worth at least $2K greater investment for the right bike then it says something about rational thought vs. impulsive thinking and one's ability to manage the need for instant self-gratification.
This is no longer the 70's, 80's, 90's, early 2000's where lack of cost effective, reliable safety tech was an acceptable standard for the risk of riding a motorcycle. There is now the right alternative and right decision. Why would anyone in this age of advanced, cost-effective, reliable tech tolerate greater risk to their livelihood on the line for some near-term gratification?
When I started riding in early 80's I was admittedly very ignorant about the risks of riding a motorcycle and blinded by infallibility thinking of youth due to lack of life experiences. At the time there was no internet to learn about the realities of motorcycle tradgedies. The industry as a whole has a very poor track record compared to autos driven by the false machismo of many ignorant riders. Even though cars have had mandatory ABS since 2011, motorcycle manufacturers in the entry level models refuse to offer them as standard option in U.S. even though in Europe they are mandated by law. Consider the cost for ABS is an insignificant $300 premium on most models of which you get back a portion during your next upgrade. Value derived for ABS for money paid is best insurance policy you will ever buy.
Thanks Kevin! Great info. My two bikes are so old ABS wasn’t invented!
I have had several like that too...just practice that braking. ;)
I agree ABS is a great safety tool esp. on a motorbike, but the rider care, attention and expertise is the best way to avoid accidents.
My last 3 bikes have all had ABS, and it's saved my bacon a couple of times. The 21 Africa Twin I'm riding now has the option to switch it off in the dirt, which is pretty nest. It even has a sensor that knows if I'm in a turn or going uphill, and adjusts the pressure accordingly. Truly remarkable.
Kevin, Thank you for your video. I suggest describing what it feels like and sounds like when ABS is engaged. Also, riders should practice emergency braking to the point that ABS kicks in to ensure it is working properly. You point out that there are different manufacturers of ABS, so they may respond differently or be not as reliable as others. It would be a false sense of security to have ABS and it not work when you need it.
The abs will work, but there's a reason he didn't get into what happens, and what he means by it may not work for the situation.
Some modulate extremely different, some are violent, some are different. I don't have linked braking, so I assume the feel of that type of system is the same for both brakes, but I don't know. On my street triple, the front brake quickly but gently pulses when abs is working. The rear brake is much less gentle, but not violently so.
Abs isn't a universal saver. On new bikes with 6 axis imu, it's pretty universal, but most bikes won't have that, so in a corner, abs may allow some loss of traction, or it may prevent it entirely.
Abs isn't universal. There's a ton of different ways to set it up, and on higher end uses, almost as many ways to measure its effectiveness. I couldn't care less about rear abs. Front abs prevents that front tire tuck that kills riders, and I won't own a bike without it.
My last three motorcycles have had ABS, my first did not. I am a believer of having ABS. That being said, I believe that if you are just starting out, I feel you should start on a motorcycle without it. This way you can learn how to properly brake a motorcycle during normal and emergency situations. Then with that training, you can ride any motorcycle with or without it. When I need to brake heavily, I still brake as though I don't have it. In an emergency situation, where even when training your self to brake without it is not enough, it is nice to have it for that as wells as a changing in conditions you either do not see or cannot adapt in time for.
ABS is helpful in learning appropriate braking skill because it lets you practice progressive braking and what those limits of traction feel like without actually locking them up.
Totally disagree with your statement and it is not supported by real world data. ABS does not hamper your skill development and for inexperienced riders it can be difference between life and death from a typical newbie mistake.
You are also thinking about proper usage of ABS in a wrong way. If you are activating ABS frequently it means you are braking too late or not reducing braking force as wheel speed starts to rapidly decrease. It is like a free braking training aid that doesn't bounce you off the pavement. In a true panic situation with ABS you need to have different instinct to grab full brake as quickly as possible. Modulating brakes as if ABS doesn't exist decreases your initial rate of braking, increases the distance travelled, and results in potentially higher impact speed than necessary when their is no path out. If their is a path out ABS will give you more time to find that path at a much lower controllable speed.
Abs and other traction control equipment saves lives ya want everything on two wheels to help ya and I've been riding for 42 yrs
I know I don't want ABS. Maybe if they only put it on the front wheel. I need to lock up the rear wheel from time to time to do what I want. I like to lock the rear on pavement and slide the rear around. It's also much easier to change the brake fluid with out ABS.
I have no doubt ABS is a huge benefit and I have one newer bike with it and two older bikes that do not have it. I have not read the study you cite but it may be that on bikes where ABS is an option, the more safety conscious riders opt for it more often and that contributes to them having fewer accidents. In other words the sampling/assigning of ABS vs. non-ABS is not random.
I think you are doubly missing the point. The very people who are less safety concious are the ones who really need ABS as they are the ones more likely to self implode on a bike.
@@johnpd1639 I do not disagree with your statement at all; everyone on street bikes are better off with ABS. My point was one of curiosity regarding the statistical interpretation of the 'magnitude' of the stated effect. Specifically, what proportion of the variance in the data is accounted for by ABS vs. no ABS vs. the proportion of the variance accounted for by possible sampling bias in terms of rider behaviour. An interesting comparison to determine how it all sorts out would be to also have some within group comparisons of highly safety conscious riders on ABS vs. non-ABS and hooligans on each type of bike: in other words have a methodological research design to carry out a two way ANOVA (analysis of variance). Clearly there would be a statistically significant main effect of ABS vs. no ABS. I just think it would be interesting to see if there may also be a statistically significant main effect related to the behaviour of the rider. I think there would be but the question is how much of an effect? I appreciate these are academic questions of curiosity.
@@lylemacdonald6672totally valid point, because the reduction in accidents could be in a large part due to riding more responsibly.
I’m actually looking forward to my next bike. I currently don’t have abs. It’s fine, I’ve learned to have that “touch” so to speak. The new Harley RDRS system is very appealing to me. As I tour more and more and run into rain and out of it the road surface changes are all over the board. That system really helps overcome the inconsistency of the road surface instead of me having to do it by feel. Great video Kevin. 👍
I wonder if the study Kevin read has controlled for rider mentality. I suspect that riders who choose the ABS option may be more safety conscious. The 22% may be a combination of rider factors as well as technical ones.
I was thinking the same thing.
Automatic Braking System is one of the most effective safety systems ever made for a vehicle. I have experienced it in my mini van & now have it on my X-MAX 300. The only safety issue to remember is that in wet weather, it takes more room to stop, so that has to be kept in mind. Practice is the key to success on any bike. Thanks for another informative video.
Anti-Lock Braking System
Outstanding video today Kevin. I work on my heavy/emergency braking frequently. ABS is not a retrofit system option for me.
Mark Lipski of TCB (Traction Controlled Braking), Texas, invented an extended Brake Hydaulic Banjo Bolt with a rubber diaphragm an air space to allow non-ABS brakes to Act like ABS. I tried them an found braking distances much shorter. (they have already saved my motor cycle when backhoe fell off flat bed truck right in front of me!) They work!
I've been riding for 14 years. I'm buying my first brand new bike next week and it has the option. After watching some videos like yours, I've definitely decided that the ABS package is worth the extra few hundred bucks. Thanks!
I got my first bike in 2020, and I have to say that ABS saved my butt on multiple occasions. It might have added some braking distance in some situations, but it's so much better than going down. The thing is, you won't be going very fast at the end of the braking distance anyway, yet going down is a whole different story.
youve just reminded me how amazing it will be when we can quantify everything, yea people who dont have abs crash more, but a person who opts out of abs may just ride harder in general, i agree with the video i just got sidetracked, i love u hope anyone who reads this family is ok, im drunk
Never had a Abs fitted bikes. Never needed it. Best to know your bike and your skills level because if you ride recklessly no amount of abs or traction control is going to save you.
Your comment needs a way lot more upvotes. Self-deluded riders believe ABS will save them from their inattention and reckless behaviour.
I always appreciate having the ABS as a backup.. Could of had my beautiful face wiped in a low side kiss the asphalt due to a locked rear brake in a hard corner. Saved by the $2.95 snap on Face shield! 23 stitches in my chin are now a battle scar! Like seat belts, should be standard safety stuff. You're always welcome to unplug or flash it out.
I am a brand new rider (less than a year in the saddle) I have a bike with abs and I practice braking technique as often as I can. I can't wait to reinsure and get out there on two wheels this summer
Well this came at an opportune time. I crashed my 2000 SV650S a couple of weeks ago, low speed slide after hitting a piece of tree branch blown down by the wind. I was on the verge of buying a replacement bike without ABS, but now I think I will reconsider. I don't know if ABS would have helped me in the crash, possibly it could - it all happened pretty fast - but I like the sound of those statistics. Thanks for the heads up! 👍🇦🇺
I think ABS is a very worthy upgrade.
We don't have a choice here in the UK. The USA could save lots of deaths if they made abs a legal requirement on new bikes.
I love it on road. No matter how much training you do there's always a time we snatch a brake.
When it comes to ABS on a road bike not having a choice is probably a good thing and can see it going same way here in US in the not so distant future. Driven by both manufacturers and insurance industry etc.
"According to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, fatal crashes on a motorcycle are 31 percent lower when motorcycles have ABS. By the same token, the Highway Loss Data Institute reported that accident insurance claims for motorcycles using ABS are filed 20 percent less often than for motorcycles without ABS."
Agree, should just be mandated. An ABS model is typical $500 more than the non-ABS version (here in the US).
I'm a new rider. I ride a Honda Rebel 500 with ABS. I chose ABS because it seemed safer. I have had many cars with ABS but I can't think of a time it ever kicked in. It was validating to hear you say ABS on a road bike like mine is a good choice. I think your videos are great.
I currently own a 2018 BMW GS Adventure Rallye TE it has lean angle traction control, abs, etc every electronic aid available to keep the bike under control in a variety of scenarios, it does not replace experience and training butttt it definitely helps when road riding, off road is different mine can be turned off off road, remember roads are not like race tracks there are a variety of obstacles on road so I'll take anything which makes riding safer for myself and others
I had a zx7r back around 2001 where after a mechanic screwed up when servicing my bike resulted in the bar end locking the throttle in place while out riding in some twisties. It was a very unique situation and I didn't investigate as to how they screwed up the service or why they were playing with the throttle and bar ends.
There I was with (unknowingly) the throttle stuck open and at the point where I needed to brake. I locked the front because the engine was still pushing, realised I had locked it and recovered the skid and re-attempted the braking. A pretty skilled manoeuvre at the time to get out of a front wheel skid try again. Unfortunately the front locked again and the front washed out and down I went. ABS would likely have saved me from that crash or held me up long enough to go from casual braking to emergency braking which would have had me pull the clutch in.
I'll take ABS over what anyone says.
Thanks Kevin. Important and very good comparison - well equipped with arguments. I am riding Kawasaki ER-5 98' ( no ABS ) and I like this motorcycle so much ( I am newbie ). From what I have learned, heard and watched from you so far, one thing is more important than any other "intelligent"assistant system we could have on our bikes - quality and quantity of practice. Big thank you, for sharing your wisdom and experience. Gratitude and Respect !
I had to use ABS brakes when doing a quick stop in the rain when someone went thru a stop sign it worked great love it .
True again. Had a twin cam flhx that I decided to put solid chrome wheels on. I didn’t know that the new wheels prevented that bikes abs from working and I skidded straight across four lanes of traffic that night in 100 degrees of heat and rain and who knows how hot that grease covered asphalt was. Yeah, it was rider error, it almost always is, but I was counting on abs on that bike, at that time, to behave as it always had. I’m ok with old hard tails but we gotta remember what we are on.
Got a 2021 ninja with ABS and I love it it really helps a lot when hard braking
I have a 20 model road glide and not long after I got it ABS saved my butt when a car in front of me unexpectedly slammed on there brakes to turn left in a downpour I was doing about 60 mph and stopped in what seemed like an unreal short distance and in a straight line too no back tire locking up and sliding around or anything stupid I love it.
I was talking to an older gentleman at one of my local Kawasaki dealerships. He's been riding since he was 7 (dirt bikes) and he's in his 60s. He said he would never own a bike without ABS. He's seen how much of a lifesaving tool it can be.
I had a bad experience with ABS on my BMW R1200R! I came up to a sharp left turn and was going slow because I expected the turn. I didn't expect that the wet black top would be completely covered with wet leaves. I have over 50 years of experience and knew not to use the front brake but didn't expect to not have a rear brake. With the ABS activitvated I had no rear brakes and went straight into the ditch!
I've never been a fan of abs especially on pickups because of how problematic and expensive they are to repair however my royal enfield has abs and I'm quite impressed with it especially since I live on a dirt road it really helps to keep the wheels from locking up and putting the bike down.
I bought a BMW K100RS in Germany in 1986. It had an extremely complex ABS system installed. I later purchased a 2003 K200RS which I believe had the same system. I believe the K-bike may have been the first ABS equipped bike. They required an annual bleeding and it took hours and special tools to accomplish. Dealers didn’t even want to deal with it. If the system went bad from water in the system you were going to spend a fortune replacing it. This left me with a bad taste for ABS. When I bought a 2018 Suzuki SV650, I opted for the non-ABS equipped version. While I don’t know what requirements the newer systems place on the owner, I wanted nothing to do with them.
Been riding for 50 years and never needed ABS, although I can see it's appeal for new riders.
My first bike with ABS was a BMW R1100GS it was at the time an option but it saved me on more than one occasion so was worth the money I know an experienced rider can out brake ABS in ideal conditions but with cold wet hands in temperatures around freezing most probably not. The only downside to ABS is that it has to be maintained with the fluid changed and flushed out regularly or the pumps get damaged this isn’t a home mechanic friendly thing as you need to plug most systems into a computer.
I have been debated on this by other owners, but one weird phenomenon I have absolutely experienced with ABS on the Tenere 700 is that engine braking too strongly (where the back wheel slightly locks up) will activate the ABS system on the rear brake lever, even if you are not actively applying the rear brake. ABS systems trigger off of wheel spin sensors regardless of whether the brake pads lock the wheel up or the engine does. The T7 does not have engine braking controls or a slipper clutch to mitigate the wheel locking up during aggressive engine braking, so if you accidentally lock up the rear wheel with heavy engine braking, you will feel the ABS system kick in and out really quickly.
you can get a ecu flash
ABS works by modulating the hydraulic pressure to the brake. I am not sure how this would happen if there is no pressure on the brake line.
@@MCrider It doesn't actually apply the rear brake, it just activates the system and you can feel it (and hear it) vibrate through the rear brake pedal. I thought I was imagining it first until I intentionally tried it when I I was off road in loose gravel - yep- locking up the rear wheel with engine braking activates it.
@@The333 so it doesnt do anything that affects your engine braking... it makes a noise... and... ?!
@@kenwittlief255 I added the comment to share an experience - because this may happen on other bikes to other riders as well and it can be startling - especially if you are only expecting ABS to kick on when you stomp the brakes. On the T7 this is not the case - it will initiate from aggressive engine braking as well.
sold my 2005 roadglide for the 2018 heritage mainly for the abs
After riding over 25 years I bought my 2017 Kawasaki Voyager with ABS. I try to ride with the intent to ride safe and never need it but nonetheless have had it activate a couple times. Always good to have backup.
I just got a zx10r ninja as my first bike
No abs
I tuned it added full m4 exhaust and sprint filter just to make sure it's got enough power. It's 200 stock. Wish me luck lol
I will never buy another (daily) bike without abs. That said, on my previous bike, the system was very sensitive and often a nuisance; in the pothole ridden roads here, it often kicked in and lenghtened my braking distance significantly. Once I almost hit a pedestrian on the crosswalk. I was slowing down to let the pedestrians cross, but I hit a bump a few meters in front and suddenly abs kicked in and cut al my braking power. It did safe me once going down on an oil spill. In those moments, the system pays for itself and the cost is not an argument anymore.
The thing that is a safety system implementation that is actually dangerous is linked braking.
It was instituted on many bikes as an attempt to prevent crashes of riders who only use the foot brake.
There are reasons you want to hammer the foot or rear brakes and not touch the front.
I have found myself in a sea of oil and needing to slowdown rapidly while maintaining control.
I managed to get all the way through it with the backend locked up and a foot on the deck dirt track style.
I actually fell over slipping on the oil on my boots after I had slowed to a near stop.
Had the bike been fitted with linked brakes I would have been a hood ornament.
ABS may not have had any effect unless it was the really stupid type that completely turns off the brakes.
I learned to ride on rough gravel dirt tracks slippery roads, skidding, sliding is second nature. For me ABS is just another thing to go wrong on bike.
This was very helpful, especially as a new rider. I just wish ABS-equipped bikes were a little more affordable. I'm looking at the G400C, Royal Classic 350, and some older bikes, but not 1 of them has ABS. It seems like starting on a modern bike equipped with ABS rockets the entry point goes from 4 thousand straight to 7.
And extremely expensive when the unit malfunctions. 2018 Indian Roadmaster, $1200-$1500 repair cost. No it’s not under warranty, it expired back in May.
Great video again. Bought a 790 mile used 20 V-Strom 650 adventure with ABS and TC after dropping my Harley and not able to pick it up...LOL. ADV riders say the V-Strom ABS is great in dirt. No problems with it here. edit....1.5 mile dirt road driveway to pavement.
I have had a few small motorcycles, and one very heavy bike. For a bike under 400 ponds, I would want to be able to turn it off under some conditions. (For the record, 75 MPH on the interstate is a definite ABS ON, in any weather and road condition.) Over 800 ponds, ABS always ON. In between, it would depend... In any case, I would want an ABS that senses the rear suspension load and relieves the front brake; I've gone over the handlebars from too-effective front braking one too many times.
I ride a slightly trail-biased Tiger 1200 adv. It has 6 IMU ABS, but I can turn the ABS off in Trail plus mode, so I can slide the rear on braking or goosing if I want. The data is clear. Think about cars - would you buy a new to you family car without ABS to haul your family? Today?
Indeed. I broke my hand after highside cased by locking rear wheel
I just got my first motorcycle, the KTM DUKE 390 2017 which has ABS, I wanted this feature on my first bike. I'm only getting my license in about a month though and am following the course since last week.
The 'survivor bias' in all the positive responses here should be noted!
All the riders with ABS who got use to it, and just jammed the brakes 'to the floor, to stop fast, and let ABS do its magic
then got into a bad situation, jammed the brakes on, and the ABS failed, locking up both wheels....
are not here to tell you about it.
On my cars that have ABS, I sometimes floor the brake pedal in the snow, just to see the ABS work like its suppose to
but I never ever brake in a way to intentionally activate the ABS - because at that point you are literally just along for the slide
Yes.
Great video…thank Kevin….a video on ABS sister….Traction Control would be good (if you haven’t already done it!)
I have been in several advanced courses and those with ABS stop shorter. Also in hazardous conditions is better. I have it on my Indian, BMW, and Piaggio. Wouldn't leave home without it.
I think that the most important reason for having ABS is not the improved stopping distance but the avoidance of locking up the front wheel. When the front wheel stops spinning it is less than a second before you crash and then you will most probably slide into whatever you where trying to avoid.
In the 37 years I have been riding motorcycles ABS is the first truly lifesaving device. There have been a lot of great innovations but they have all been refinements of existing technology, all things you could live without
I bought my Honda Fury with ABS back in 2010 and I've only activated ABS once but that one time it saved me from having a bad day and being banged up for months. I'd never go back to a bike without ABS. In Australia all bikes over 125cc must have ABS by law. The Honda Monkey is only 125cc but even it comes with ABS in Oz.
Exactly what ABS is for; to hopefully never need it and to get home alive the day you do.
Single channel ABS only in front makes good sense , where rear tire can be locked during drifting.
ABS yes, cost is no longer an issue. In Europe (where I am ) all bikes are required to have ABS from factory and the cost is not an issue.
Security goes first and ABS increases security a lot.
I agree in certain conditions (off road mainly) ABS might perform poorer but for the 99.9% of the use it is a life saving option. Some riders say they can outperform ABS, that can be true in a circuit by professionals but on the street I doubt it. In case of a panic or emergency brake I doubt that unless you are a real pro you can outperform ABS.
I'll take abs. Just got an 18 xsr 700, happy it has it. ABS is basically a failsafe system to save your butt when you mess up or road changes while braking.
I’ll never ride another bike without ABS.
Grow a pair.
@@Micflare1 😢 Aww. Someone not get enough love from mum? 😅
Well done. Excellent presentation. Enjoyed the information.
I hate abs, but not just for motorcycles, but cars, and especially big rigs - which I happen to drive. At least on air brakes, they are very unreliable - trouble prone, and hard to repair. And expensive. It is just another thing that the damned DOT can find wrong during an inspection and fine you bucou $$. I don’t know how they work on a motorcycle (I have a KLR thank goodness), but I imagine they are just as problematic. No damned DOT to worry about, but you still have to maintain it, fix it, worry about it, and pay for it.
I drive pre-abs, pre-computer cars, pre-abs ‘91 Freightliner, minimal computer garbage, and my old ‘81 GoldWing and KLR will last me the rest of my life.
My 2 cents worth! (Love your channel, and your Christian viewpoints)
I like ABS however I have seen several demos by F9 and others that if ABS is activated it will extend braking distance by a lot.. It's best to learn how to brake by not having the ABS kick in in the first place. Finding and being mindful of and using escape paths is a far better choice when braking is doubtful. My Rebel 500 has ABS but my Grom does not.
Great post, absolutely, abs all the way, its the only add on i really need on a bike
There are more cons that are not mentioned in this video, especially if the ABS is simple Hall effect two channel ABS and/or has anti stoppie tech, but the most recent 6 axis IMU top flight ABS reduces the downsides.
ABS did not help me out on my crash 6 years ago. Here’s why I picked up a piece of tire between the front tire and fender. The bike had ABS wasn’t speeding, didn’t anticipate the truck in front straddling the debris. So give yourself plenty of room to make a move.
Thanks Kevin!
Statistics reveal there is still fatalities even with ABS or (unified combined braking system equivilent all euro 4 bikes have to have some kind of abs now). Just like in an advanced utopian world relience on technology and not skill or self sufficency will reduce odds of survival.
Another thing that older riders don't understand is that motorcycle ABS is a whole different beast nowadays, compared to junk that it was 20 years ago. For beginners I do suggest selling their cheap old bike and getting something that is 2017 or later, with ABS.
Thanks!
Please keep in mind that the 22% is not really an accurate reflection of the situation in the street. It is, in part, a self selecting statistic as those people who opt to buy/ride an abs equipped bike are more likely to safety conscious in the first place.
I’m sure it’s still a safer, but by what percentage isn’t as cut and dried as is being presented.
Valid point. If there was a way to measure the maturity of the rider it could have been included.
Every bike I’ve owned since I bought a Honda ST1100 in 1991 has had ABS except for a street-plated Beta Enduro 250, a bike which is obviously biased toward soft surfaces. I’m completely positive about ABS, and could bore you with my personal war stories of the times it has kept me from falling down. However, I am a little bit uneasy about the methodology of the study. It may not be the case that the populations of the riders who purchased the ABS and non-ABS versions are strictly equivalent. Price is an issue, as Kevin mentioned, and a buyer who is stretched to their limit may choose the non-ABS version for that reason. Since financial power is linked to age, in general, and rider experience may also be, and general maturity certainly is, it may be that those attributes of the two groups of riders might be enough to explain a difference in accident and mortality rates. That being said, if you’re buying a new bike, and are stretching your finances, I very much advise that you borrow a little more and get the ABS version.
Tl:dr YES
And you ll actually be faster with rider aids rather than without you might feel faster without but you will always be objectively faster with (unless you re wired the same as a computer and can make 0.1ms adjustments in ur inputs while riding)
ABS is like insurance. You only want it when you need it. If the ABS system is kicking in, then you should see what you are doing wrong with your braking technique.
I've been riding motorcycles for 10 years, I got in my first accident two months ago because my bike did not have ABS brakes. A car pulled in front of me as I was riding by, looks like they were not going to stop, so I panic braked and my rear wheel locked which threw me from the bike. I didn't have any broken bones, but my hand is sprained pretty bad and still sprained, and my bike was damaged. I am unsure if I'm going to continue riding, but if I do, I'm going to sell my current bike and purchase one with abs.
You need to watch Bret Tkacs recent video on ABS off road… ABS is also useful for learning/understanding threshold braking…
The only time my ABS has kicked in while on a sealed road was the time I suffered a puncture while riding on the motorway. It immediately let me know there was an issue.