I go up to the High School's parking lot every spring and practice cornering and do figure 8's and practice, practice and practice. Been riding for 40+ yrs Don't ever be so proud that you think you know it all.
You dont need to go to a parking lot to practice your riding skills. Every time you ride practice stopping harder than you need to if there is no one behind you. Not at every stop sign, but at least a few times on each ride. Pick a point in the road ahead and practice swerving around it, again when you have the road to yourself, dont freak out other drivers. When you are in a curve pick a spot ahead and move your bike to the other side of the lane, so you can avoid obstacles in a corner. Also when you have no one on your tail slow down short of a stop sign or red light and creep up on it at 1 or 2mph with your feet on the pegs. If the cross street is clear continue slowly without putting your feet down. If you can ride slow and take a corner at 2mph, you dont need to ride in circles in a parking lot.
I am riding 50 years. I Tom my forst MSF skills class three years ago. I’m taking it again next week. While I think I’m Steve McQueen , the first class showed me “why” I did certain things I thought I did “naturally “ . Then the teacher explained why . I had a good time for 5 hours and messed with the teacher a bit. The best $150 I ever spent on riding . It was worth taking every few years . Shake the cob webs out of this 64 year old grumpy of wind bags head for another season. Stay safe Brothers and Sisters. Keep the rubber side down. Peace
The slower I am in a corner the more wobbly and unstable I feel. You have to know your bike. Respect it...maybe a bit of healthy fear of its power but you command that fear. You have to lean and push thru and keep your throttle smooth and timed with the lean. You can lean that suckered over especially if your on a sport bike a dyna or something like that. Baggers obviously are different but if you're not easily spooked you'll be fine. Definitely looking all the way through the turn or corner is key to that confidence....the bike becomes one with your body and counter steering and it becomes easy. I had a corner a while back that always gives me trouble bc I ride in the PNW where it's raining and slick and I hadn't rode that stretch for a while and I caught myself not looking all the way thru so I didn't naturally lean into it like I usually do. Well obviously it got a bit sketchy but I was fine...it just reminded me of the basics. The wet curvy mountain roads of the PNW have made me an all around rider I feel. Its been a challenge learning to ride up here...but I tell people who are new to riding...get a dirt bike...a 250cc something with a load of tourqe and get comfortable on that. It don't hurt as bad when u drop in the dirt. I came up in motocross so I think that helped a ton. Anyway good video. I been riding for almost 20 years and I still have to reremember the basics from time to time.
I started watching your channel in Feb. 2020 and have already been riding for over twenty-five years. And I can't help but wonder how in the hell I'm still here. I would say It was just plain luck. Never before had I paid so much attention to all the bad habits I had, People now will ask me what to do any different scenarios and I'm able to give them a correct riding method thats going to help them. The biggest suggestion I give them is to watch MCrider. I usually send them a couple reminders through the week to make sure they watch these videos. Thank You Kevin
Well said. I got back in the street bike saddle after years off-road, and it is great to have these refreshers to practice with (not just watch!) and to purge ineffective habits.
A thought on cornering. A lot of new riders are taught to look through the corner as you described. But ... they do that as if they have a steel rod that runs up their spine from the seat to the top of their head. In other words, they keep their eyes parallel with their shoulders. This means that as they lean over, everything in their vision appears to tilt. Momentum and centrifugal force tells their inner ears (where our balance is controlled) that everything is fine. So when the balance system and the visual system suddenly disagree on whether everything is fine, panic is sure to follow. Its my experience that most learners are not told to keep their eyes parallel with the horizon (as they point their nose/chin in the direction they want to go). When all this fell into place for me I suddenly became much more aware of the bike moving around under me and how much easier it was to make the very fine adjustments to inputs coming into, during and coming out of corners. Keeping your field of vision on the same plane regardless of what angle your body is at means your subconscious mind and autonomous nervous system have one less variable to work with when gliding around those favourite twisties at whatever speed your skill and confidence level makes comfortable. Love your videos Kevin. Ride safe.
I'm a new rider with very little experience one the pavement. I bought my bike a few weeks ago. I've been watching your channel off and on for about a year and tryed to absorb as much as I can. Just finished a parking lot session and I could hear your voice in my head every second. Thank you for all you do. I'll definitely keep watching and learning.
Pick your feet up and turn your head seemed to be repeated many times. Ok , “ you’re a little hard on those back beaks I heard too. I occasionally stood on them . Hell he said stop as fast as I could . 🤪
Watch everything you can. Mcrider has good content. There are other channels that do as well. It's not about size of person or weight of bike, but the correct technique to make it do what you want it to do. Keep it basic at 1st, know your clutch, and brakes, and watch out for other people. Practice, practice, and practice good fundamentals, if you can take a course I suggest it. Ride your own ride, don't try to keep up with more experience riders. Do your thing as you get comfortable. Slowly grow out of your comfort zone and you'll be going wherever you want and be wanting a bigger bike soon. You got this
Congrats on the purchase! Practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, well you know, practice! I've been riding for 25 years and also police motor trained and ride a police motor too. I practice, practice, well you know, practice, as much as I can. You can never practice enough or learn enough. Stay safe and many happy miles on that bike.
A new rider is any rider that rides less then 2500 miles a year regardless of how long they have ridden.Those of us in colder climates lose up to 25% of their skill level over the winter and have sluggish muscle memory for the first few hundred miles.
I'll agree with that. I'm off the bike for around 5 months over winter. I have to get used to riding all over again come the spring. Years ago I used to ride cheaper older bikes and was bolder than I am now.
I was always taught that _your speed on the road should be such that _*_you can safely stop_*_ in the distance you can clearly see in front of you._ As you rightly say, that will vary with each and every corner, road and the weather conditions.
When I first started riding, I watched this guy I thought his safety advice was really lame and boring but then I crashed a few times and I respect everything this man says so much now and he helps me humble myself. Plus, he is the most relaxing motorcycle advice giver on youtube. Thank you for your videos please keep it up!!
As soon as I can get out of the parking lot after practicing all the slow speed stuff from the other guy, I can’t wait to try some of this stuff out. Should be about 2 years
I never ride aggressively. Do the speed limit. The speed limit signs are there for a reason. Go slower into the turns and pay attention and you will always hold your line and get through the turn. Kevin is AWESOME.
YOU have to determine what speed is right for you based on your known abilities. I've been riding for 25 years and I learned to ride in police motor school and re-certify every year in that school. I too take corners I don't know or can't look thru well, slowly. I don't care who doesn't like it.
40 plus years ago, I knew a ground school instructor that repeatedly said that generally speaking, the most dangerous person in the air, was the 200 hour pilot. Now, with enough experience to "relax" & be "comfortable", but maybe just not enough experience to see a problem coming and avert it. In the decades since, I've seen "200 hr pilots" everywhere. Cars, trucks, heavy equipment, machinery operators and motorcycles. You name it. Even in my mirror a number of times. Knowledge of this principal can be a valuable defence while working to master some demanding skill sets. Stay safe, keep learning, & listen to Kevin. Thank you so much for these MCR vidios.
Has anybody done a survey to count how many riders who turned wide knew that pressing forward on the inside grip is the easiest minimal-effort way to make the bike turn tighter? I believe this is likely the most common reason for these crashes. All the other things are supplementary. "Pressing on that right handgrip" is not a sufficient teaching. You have to say "press FORWARD", because it is counterintuitive, and explain why it is counterintuitive and why it works. If you just briefly say "press" in passing and then distract riders with all the other details, they'll still crash. Slow parking lot exercises focusing only on what happens when the handlebars are moved one way, then the other, keeping everything else centered, will demonstrate the effect. Slow, look, press, and roll does not help if the rider does not know precisely what you mean by "press". When the rider presses the right grip forward (not down), the bars turn slightly to the left; then, because of rake and trail (which you must explain properly as well), the front contact patch shifts to the left of your direction of travel, which causes the center of gravity of the bike-and-rider to fall to the right of an imaginary line connecting the rear and front contact patches, which makes the bike lean right, which makes the bars turn right (because of the caster effect, like the wheels on a shopping cart), even though you're still pressing the right grip forward, because the weight of the bike and the forces on the fork are way stronger than the force of your right hand pressing forward, so the bike turns to the right. Pressing forward more strongly makes the bike turn more sharply. This takes very little effort, and if you pull REARWARD with the opposite hand at the same time, it takes even less effort. Riders turning wide simply do not know this. It is not a failure of where they're looking, nor a failure to remember "slow, look, press, and roll", nor being distracted, nor any other reason. When I started in 2007, I first took the MSF course, and by the end of the class, they taught me NOTHING about these things. Immediately afterwards, I bought and read all the books by Keith Code, Nick Ienatsch, Lee Parks, and Vittore Cossalter, which taught me what MSF skipped in their misguided effort to dumb things down so that all riders can understand. Stop dumbing down for us, and teach us what we really need to know!
I created a skill level system for our riding club, but it is based on miles ridden, not years. Basically, I have riders graduate to the next level every 1000 miles. There are 5 levels. Completing the MSF course is worth 500 miles. Going a year without riding deducts 500.
I've been riding Honda Goldwings for 25 years. I find that safe speeds for beginners to enter most curves is the State's recommended speed for that curve. Once you enter the curve, you can accelerate through the curve. More experienced riders can easily enter most curves at 10 mph faster than the State's recommended speed for the curve.
I'm a 60 year old returning rider and I'm grateful for those recommended speed signs on the corners. I could take them faster but I want that safety margin. I mostly ride two lane country roads. If I'm not going fast enough for the locals who know those curves, I pull off and let them pass. I'm going to ride my ride.
My nemesis, turning, particularly right turns. I'm practicing, but I also tend not to turn my stupid head. Working on it! I've bee riding for a year now, working to get better. Thank you for this important point of not letting a year of riding make you think you know it all. Great video!
Best piece of advice I was ever given - and Kevin said it again in this video - is turn your nose to where you want the bike to go. Don't just look with your eyes, turn your face. It takes practice, but it DOES work.
I have over 20 yrs on Goldwings. When I went from a 2010 (manual) to a 2019 DCT, I fell into the "New Rider" category for about 3 months until I became comfortable and confident in the new bike.
Just because I've been riding motorcycles for 50 years doesn't make me less cautious every time I get on my bike, your channel is very good,as for going too wide into a bend, Easter Sunday two years ago my friend did exactly that, experienced careful rider, one mistake met a truck head on and he's gone, be careful out there.
Yep. I can fully agree. Beginners will drop their bikes at slow speeds or when totally stationary. I've my license for three and a half years now and I dropped my bike three times in the first year. First time at a gas station as I was leaving and couldn't somehow get my left foot on the ground, second time in slow speed traffic as I was yielding, steered to the right and used the front brake - bike fell to the right which is that classic noob mistake and the third time in my backyard which was the most embarassing drop because I just forgot to put the side stand down. Dropped it right in front of me. After those incidents no more drops. Also all those drops were performed with an old beater Honda NTV for 600€. Got my new bike Yamaha Tracer after a year and a half in and never dropped that one. To all newbies I recommend a used and cheap bike as a first bike. Just my 2 cents. 😁😃
I'm glad I found this site ( and became a member). I've been riding for almost 40 years. My training was my friend John. I've only been in 2 crashes the whole time. The reason? Pure, unadulterated LUCK. My biggest bike had been a 750. I recently retired and bought a HD Deluxe 107 engine. This is a much bigger bike than I'm used to. That, plus my age, has made me more caution minded. Over the years, aside from luck, I've gained experience. I've also gained overconfidence and laziness. Going through the videos here, and on the site, remind me of what I should be doing and teaches me things John never did. Noobies: pay close attention! Old timers: learning and refreshing never hurt!
I've been riding for exactly 60 years now (starting at 15 1/2) and will be on my bike tomorrow. I have to admit that I've learned more about proper and safe riding in the last three years than I had learned the previous 57 years thanks to MCRider and the practices Kevin recommends. With regard to taking corners, as I approach a corner, I focus on it, I look through it and stake out a path so that I can stay smack in the middle of my lane without drifting wide or skirting the wrong lane. This makes riding more enjoyable and relaxing with a feeling of safety and yet I get through the corners at a satisfying speed. I now drive my cars this way too and I'm a better driver for it. I do not "trail brake" nor do I see any reason to do so.
@@125AXer True, but I am going at such a rate that I can easily go a little narrower or, better yet, a little wider and still not scare myself. Concentration on what that stretch of road looks like enables you to spot those things while there's still time to get away. Taking a maximum speed line through a corner leaves you little room to maneuver. Anyway, I'm still here and like they say, "there are old riders and there are bold riders, but there are no old bold riders" and alternatively, "life is short, let's get it over with."
your intentions are good and your logic is mostly sound but staying in the center of your lane thru a curve is not the safest path and you will run the risk of becoming fixated to stay in your prechosen line the best way to take a corner or curve is the Outside-Inside-Outside path taught in the MSF beginners course I wont use the space here to describe it, you can easily look it up no matter what happens in the curve that is the path that gives you the best options to compensate and adjust when you need to and since you are moving from one side of the lane to the other going in and coming out of the curve, you are not developing the habit of riding with your hands frozen on the grips in the same position all the way thru - you will be practicing changing your path in the curve on every curve, so when you need to because of an obstacle, it will be second nature.
@@kenwittlief255 Very likely it was before you were born that I used to take that outside - inside - outside cornering path, but have found that if I approach a curve on the outside, but no faster than a speed in which I can instinctively maintain my bike in the center of my lane once I have actually entered the curve, I feel more in control in case obstacles in the road require me to go a little wide or a little narrow. Believe me, when you try to maintain a neutral position in a curve while concentrating on the road ahead and what might be on it, your "hands frozen on the grips" is just not what is happening, rather it is a dynamic interaction between awareness of what might be in your path, countersteering & balance, along with having your eyes looking where you want to go so your bike instinctively goes there. Years ago I would cut the corner and then go wide on exiting and that tempted me to go fast through the corners. Too many times I would end up dangerously close to the outside edge, inches away from the dirt and subsequent loss of traction. After scaring myself one times too many, I stopped exiting wide. I once knew a guy riding a Harley in a pack, irresponsibly lead by an off-duty CHP who led his pack at full speed around corners. The LAST time my colleague rode in the pack, he ended up running out of room and he MASHED every bone in his body. After more than a million + $ in medical expenses, he could no longer make his own blood cells and died when he foolishly exposed himself to the flu. No, I stay away from edges, inside and outside (except when entering), thank you very much.
@@kenwittlief255 Oh, one other thing, I am aware of the importance of "received wisdom" and learning from those more experienced and/or intelligent than I am, but I am also aware of the importance of evaluating that received wisdom for one's self and the importance of testing it against one's own individual needs and practices. There are many things I have been taught "for beginners" that I have found are not hard truths, but are starting points for me to experiment with to see if perhaps I can come up with something better so that it is a better fit for ME and my circumstances. I can tell you that there were many motorcycle "truths" that I learned decades ago, but which have been superseded on Kevin's RUclips site.
I agree with your definition of a crash with one small exception and it probably only applies to touring big twin Harleys. I don't consider dragging the floor boards a crash, but your not far away at that point. One of the things that I almost learned the hard way is to not be afraid to lean the bike. I was riding a friend's 850 Norton many decades ago and almost high sided it because I didn't lean far enough and bounced off of a curb in the opposite lane. I was lucky I didn't crash and neither the bike nor I were hurt. I did scare me and in 40 plus years of riding I haven't repeated that mistake. Keep the good stuff coming Kevin.
The older I get, the faster I was. My days of going fast are over. I ride at or near the speed limit, and never in the rain or rush hour traffic. Been riding since 1974...so far so good...accident free...knock on wood. Current wheels are a 2020 Kawasaki Vulcan S.
Yeah, I am sort of with you. I live in the DC area which has some of the worst traffic in the nation. I have to ride in it to get away from it. There are lots of beautiful rides close to the area such as the Blue Ridge Mountains and the shore. But, like you, I don't like to ride in the rain and try my best to not do it. (maybe once or twice a year I get caught in it and I find a place to pull over and wait it out.) I own a touring cruiser, a 2007 Yamaha Royal Star tour deluxe, and the fastest I'll cruise on it is 75 mph. I see lots of guys on cruisers who fly past me doing 80-90 on the highways and roads. I could do that too, but why? I don't understand their mentality we buy cruisers to enjoy the ride and surroundings IMO, why rush it and shorten that experience? Not to mention increased speed, increased chance of an accident.
@@kman-mi7su yes I like cruising at speed limit that way I m more relax not worrying about cops. The ride is what it's about not how fast you get there.
@@barendfourie6687 Well I do cruise a little faster than the limit on the highway, but yes, like you correctly put it, its about the ride not how fast you get there.
Scuttled my Blade on a reducing radius corner here in U.K. about 10 years ago, grabbed too much brake after a slight slip dipping in. I’ve been back to the scene of the crime many times and it is a nasty corner, but I learnt a lot from the experience. I’m sure if I hadn’t braked the bike would have settled and taken me through. A couple of years later I was touring in Wales and half way round a corner there was water running off a mountain over the road. I resisted the very strong temptation to brake and the bike glided through with no issues.
An additional issue afflicts intermediate riders: the failure to make a distinction between speed and acceleration. Inexperienced riders might take a corner at a relatively low speed, conclude mid-corner that they've got the corner under control, get on the throttle a little too hard, and get shocked when they run wide. I think that controlling the direction of a bike using the throttle is something that I've rarely heard explained directly. Instructors do say that the bike tends to straighten up when you use the throttle, but using this effect to control your direction is something I had to discover on my own.
Nicely done. One thing you left out: riders run wide in curves because they do not know how far they can lean the bike over before it will scrape, and they get scared and do not push the grip harder into the curve when they could. Most riders never come close to leaning and turning the bike as hard as the bike can go, and instead go off the road. Its better to push the bike over too far and have it scrape, than to go off the road on the far side, or worse, to drift head-on into oncoming traffic.
I was in an accident a few months ago. There was oil on a country road and I slid, regained and then slid again and crashed. Now I’m gradually getting more comfortable but I am constantly trying to examine road conditions in corners and not looking ahead as I should be. I hope I get over this soon. Great video.
Thank you, I got my new bike for one week now, watching your videos help a lot. The problem with cornering starts when you go above legal speed, The roads and the curves are not engineered just for cars, the speed signs give you an idea before a corner, you should use that speed and then adjust your own speed according to your riding skills. Roads are not the place to practice our track skills.
Be mindful of more than that. Sometimes a anomaly in our own minds takes place and causes danger to land right in our laps in the form of a devastatingly disastrous crash. Curves sneak up on even the most seasoned of riders.
I'm 59. Been riding all types of bikes since I was 14 years old, off & on. I understand corners, braking, situational awareness, etc, etc. Other vehicle, non-motorcycle drivers plus smartphones put my eyes & brains on FIRE! Motorcycles are hard to see, period! Distracted drivers on smartphones just PISS ME OFF!😊 Thanx for all your time Kevin!😊
No one so far spoke about which gear you should be in. I've found that you should always be in a gear which allows you to feel confident to accelerate in. I.e. if you are going too fast, even slow, but your gear is high so that you need to freewheel, is when you run wide. Gear down before the corner so that you have the confidence to accelerate
the first time as a new rider you encounter a decreasing radius turn unexpectedly is pretty dicey. I'm in that 1yr ish range. I still take corners fairly slow. And by slow, i guess i mean, i go the speed limit, or what the "turn" speed signs suggest. I know my bike can probably handle more speed, but I don't feel I can, so unless I know the turns, I keep it real reasonable. which is probably the least "motorcycle" thing to say. but eh... rather get home safe than have my ego be why i ride.
I made this exact mistake as a brand new rider, just yesterday and had to apply the brakes. It was a close call but I thank God I made it out without crashing and believe prayer made the difference... The first thought that came to mind was your thumbnail “Don’t Run Wide!” So before going out today, I am watching... and praying. Thank you for this vital information. 👍
I learned really quickly about the dangers of the front break in turns when I "dropped" my bike going ~3-5km/h at a stop sign. I'm happy I had that experience at low speed when i first started - good experience of what NOT to do.
I too had a "little" crash on day of my MSF class. They let us get there early and ride around the parking lot. I was killing it and feeling good with 1 day of training under my belt. They had us start and had everyone lined up behind me asking me to lead the line to the start. Feely all kind of cocky I took off, got to the first curve going a little too fast so I grabbed the front brake (hadn't mastered the rear brake yet) and you know what happened. Over I went. Turns out besides breaking one of the mirrors off I also sprained my ankle. Finished the class and passed easily. The next morning I could not walk so off to the emergency room I went. Lesson learned that day - no heavy front brake when making a turn...
Situation Awareness! Turn signals and brake lights are to communicate with others on the road. I like many others have been riding for a couple decades. At 14 I picked up my uncle's 47 Indian Chief and my cousin taught me to ride. Two years later I bought my cousin's 65 Electraglide. That was 1981 and put down a few bikes and I've been put down. Everytime I know I stopped paying attention to my surroundings or motorcycle. I see to many riders with cell phones mounted on their bars or looking too long at the landscape. In every " accident" I am at fault. Personal responsibility for situation awareness is everyone's! Thank You for your videos. I'm not too old or too " experienced" to learn from you. You all are in my prayers Hoka Hey
Hello Kevin. I've been riding for about 8 months and your videos have helped me tremendously and have been able to get out of critical situations by following your instruction, except the other day, I went down going about 30 to 35 mph. I installed a phone mount on my bike and on the first bump that I hit, my phone fell off, my first reaction was to look back while braking and worried about my phone not to get ran over by the cars behind me, I slowed down a bit too fast, fished tailed the bike and down I go. I only had a couple scratches and a sore knee, thank God. I was feeling down and depressed becuase I could've avoided that situation, but I didn't, my reaxtion was faster than my mind to think how to handle the situation, I guess I was more worried about my phone than my safety and that's a big no no.
Good your ok. It is always good to asses what happened so you know what you need to do in the future. Sounds like you used only the rear brake. I have been riding for years and recently had an accident in a curve 3 minutes from my home. I probably did 10 things wrong. The worse was target fixation as I came closer to the side of the road instead of looking up ahead. I literally drove off the side of the road upright at the time. The next time I went down that road I could not believe I was literally 1 to 2 seconds from the end of the curve, just a few feet. If I had just looked up I'm sure I would have been fine. Wasn't paying attention to riding the bike, too fast into the turn, no downshift, panicked, failed to look up the road, could have slowed down. Felt like I should have given up riding as I could not believe I fd up so bad.
For me I found that more than actual corners, turns on older winding roads and hairpin on ramps often have a varying radius so the turn might start out with a particular radius then get tighter halfway through.
Kevin your videos are a wake-up call to me I'm at the overconfidence stage I bought a lighter smaller bike more flexible in the corners and I've been forgetting all the lessons you taught me like Trail braking. Without your videos I've would have not been here or worse been here but can't ride anymore thanks for all you do
@MCRider - Really enjoy your tutorials, Kevin. On this one, I gotta say determining "New Rider" by Years is an imperfect method. I've owned my used '07 Softail Deluxe for 4 months now. I take it out 5 - 6X/week. Each ride logs between 20-40 miles here in AZ, not to mention a few 100-mile day trips with fellow riders. On my daily rides, I always work on my skills & strategy: proper stopping (left leg), progressive braking, following my nose, lane positioning. My rides always include minimum 10 mins in a giant church parking lot to practice my slow-speed cornering around small islands throughout the empty lot, as well as U-Turns and Emergency braking. I work to reduce my U-turn radius to within 2 parking spaces, so far getting it down to 3 spaces. No problem with the cornering & emergency braking, which I thoroughly enjoy! I've logged 1400 miles in 4 months so far. I know I definitely have more to learn and remain humble. By the same token, I recognize that I've put in more "skills" effort time in than most straight-line "weekend warriors" who've ridden for years. Am I still a new rider? Probably, but my seat time and dedication to skills work has built up a much-appreciated confidence level. Someday I'll take some Enhanced Skills classes to further improve. For now, I shudder at the thought of dropping my pristine (unprotected) Deluxe just so I work on doing a turn in 20' instead of 30'.
I approach riding as a meditation. You have to be the state of mind some call being in the present moment. Your inner voice turns off (except maybe you are thinking through what you're doing) and your senses are heightened.
Hey Kevin, how about doing a video for the senior rider. I'm 78 years old and been riding since I was 21. I consider myself a experienced rider but last year I had a cornering accident and laid my bike down. I was in a left turn lane when the car in front of me for some unexplained reason slammed on their brakes. I was too close for a evasive maneuver and applied too much front brake and well, you know the rest. I wasn't hurt badly except for pride and road rash. Since then I've been apprehensive about riding and giving thought of quitting altogether even though I don't really want to. I'm just concerned that maybe I don't have the skills I once had. It's only my second accident in all my years of riding. First one was back around 1990 so I would say I've been blessed.
I met a group this past weekend, and one of the riders was 84 (he was riding with his son and son-in-law who were in their 60's). I hope I'm still riding when I'm your age. 👍
@@beepbop6697 Thanks and I hope your are also. I've certainly been blessed but after the last accident my confidence took a hit. I should not have been following so close but I never expected the person to stop for no apparent reason. Stay alert and stay safe.
@@Sincity4me “following too close” pretty much nails it. So why were you following too close? did you forget not to? Impatient? My thinking that is the root cause and your honest answer to yourself should give you the bigger answer as to whether you should keep riding, take a refresher, or maybe rethink riding.
@@JackTRyan Temporary lapse of good judgement I guess. We were both about 4 cars back and it's a short arrow so I was trying to beat the light I suppose. Actually after the car stopped it resume going through on a red. The guy behind me jumped out to help me get the bike upright and he said the same thing I was thinking " what the H... were they stopping for?" Yeah, I've been rethinking whether at my age it's worth the risk.
Hey there I sure hope there was alot of Riders that watched this video it sure was 100% helpful to me as well and I've been on 2s since I was a 7 year old kid now 58 and for sure still Ridin more than ever thanks.
More on throttle control to stabilize the bike please. Much more on using the brakes for weight distribution and traction especially at tip in please. While using the brakes is not necessary for every turn, proper use (pressure and timing) is critical (not optional) for turns that require it.
Being a second-year rider, I think about what you I said about confidence every time I go out for a ride now. When I am feeling good about my skills there is a little voice that sounds like Han Solo in the original movie, " don't get cocky, kid! ".
Thank you for making me remind that i need to pay more attention since i am in that 1-2 years of motorcycling experience range. Hope to improve my riding. Cheers 🥂
Valid points. I often fall victim to that my ambition outweighs my talent situation. I am older, shouldn’t I be wiser by now?!? 🤷🏻♂️ I wish my MSF instructor would have applied more emphasis on the “turn your head!” On the u turn. I still struggle with it, but now I ride a trike (long story regarding my wife’s health), so it isn’t as vital, but I still practice it.
Been riding about 6 years now. The most impactful tip I received in regards to turns was to utilize the Down shift. Lower gear through the turn is so controlled. Just my experience.
I've ridden for 45 years. I'm also a ff paramedic and was a flight medic for 10 years. I've seen more mc crashes than I would like to. I would say 90% of the MC crashes I have been on that have been single MC accidents have been left hand wide corners. At least 60% have been Harleys maybe because there are more out there I don't know. I always said there should be some sort or statistic. I can't say even it's mostly new riders I've seen veteran riders do the same thing.
May 2019 I had sever sepsis, it made an abscess in my neck and I had surgery to cut the bones on the back of my neck, I was in a wheel chair for two months. When I got home I pushed my bike in and out of the garage to wash and wax for about a month, and then I took it in for inspection. My neck is locked I have some mobility. I practiced in parking lots feet up sharp turns and forced my head to look into the turn.
How many miles does the average new rider put on a bike in a year? When I was young, I would put 3000 to 4000 miles a year on a bike. On my new bike, I have put almost 9000 miles in 10 months. It had been 40 years since I had ridden a bike very much, and 25 years since I had ridden at all. I love riding, and ride anytime I can, as much as possible on rural country roads for practice.. I will ride 50 miles or more just to unwind at the end of the day. Much of what I had learned on a bike in the 70s has kept me out of car crashes since. I took a new rider course, and can still hear the instructor yelling "TURN YOUR HEAD". I really like your videos, and I have learned a lot. Praise God, I have never had a serious crash on the street. 1974 Kawasaki Z1 900 in the 70s. 2020 H-D Road Glide Limited with RDRS
"Slow, look, press, and roll" I am not a fan. I us trail. I like having the break pads engaged with the break disk rotor. If something comes up I just need to increase pressure a little. It also keeps pressure on the front tire for better traction on the contact patch. I know you're talking about beginners, but I think they should start trail breaking earlier in their training. You don't have to come in hot to use trail breaking. Thanks Kevin.
Kevin, I love your videos and I’ve learned a lot from watching them. I do want to challenge your definition of a new rider - one of the attributes, per your definition, is someone with less than three years’ experience. I don’t think time is an accurate attribute. I think you should replace general time with seat time (miles). I am a new rider. I’ve had my bike 3 months now. I took the MSF and have joined a couple different rider groups, whose rides have exposed me to many different driving scenarios (mountains, country, city, rural, etc,). In just 3 months I have put over 3,500 miles on my bike. I know some people who barely put 500 miles on their bike a year. This is why I suggest you replace miles and riding experiences for your definition. I’ve asked several seasoned riders when I should take the intermediate course and pretty regularly hear... “not for at least 6 months”. If I follow that advice, and if I keep my current riding miles as they are now, I will have 7,000 miles under my butt. Is this the right time?
Exactly, Ray! Like you, I have owned my used '07 Softail Deluxe for 5 months now. I take it out 5-6X/week. Each ride logs between 20-40 miles here in AZ, not to mention a few 100-mile day trips with fellow riders. On my dailies, I always include 10 minutes in a church parking lot to practice my U-turns and twisties around the small islands throughout the large, empty lot. Trying to reduce my turning radius to TWO parking spaces, but having trouble turning it in less than 3. I've logged 1400 miles so far. I know I have more to learn and remain humble. By the same token, I recognize that I've put more "skills" effort in than most straight-line "weekend warriors". Am I still a new rider. Probably, but my seat time and dedication to skills work has built up a much-appreciated confidence level. Someday I'll take some Skills classes to further improve. For now, I shudder at the thought of dropping my pristine (unprotected) Deluxe just so I can do a turn in 20' instead of 30.
Spot on advice. I started riding from scratch 18 months ago. Got my full licence (UK) last September aged 68. The most amazing thing I found is that on a bike you truely go where you are looking. In 50 years of driving a car I never felt this happening to the same extent. sounds obvious but look properly at where you want to be and (assuming speed is in the right area) you will arrive safely.
All riders need to know COUNTERSTEERING ( anything above 5-10 mph) and leaning turns the bike. This is paramount when a sharper turn is required!! The brain & hands must know to push inside bar and not panic!
Spot on! Point your nose as far into the corner as you can, until you find the exit. The bike will follow your nose. My riding abilities grow by leaps and bounds when I started using this technique, along with trail braking. Great video!
Another valuable video. One thing that doesn’t get mentioned much is keeping your head in your lane through a corner. I see it way too often, riders coming through a corner with their tires in their lane but most of their body leaned into the on coming traffic.
Hey Kevin I enjoy your videos. One thing I haven't heard anyone address is that right hand corners are sharper than left hand corners, at least that's the case if you live in a country where you ride or drive on the right side of the road.
Laid my first Harley down about a month after getting it, 10 years later looking back I pushed way above my skill level at the time lol now I push things way farther than I should
Good stuff, Kevin. Absolutely on track. Been riding about 8 years. I’m almost 72 years young. Your program was a great “remind and review” for me. Thank you as I head out on the road again this year. Blessings, bro.!
Where I live there are a lot of corners with dirt & gravel on the pavement. The streets might be clean but the street sweepers seem to always forget the corners. Any unfamiliar corner you come to is likely to have dust, dirt, or leaves on it. You have to glide through as if on black ice if you don't want an ugly surprise and a bad rash. On clean corners I used to like to enter fast with enough squeeze on the front brake to shorten the wheelbase, then halfway through (at about the apex) get off the front and accelerate hard through the rest of the corner for a slingshot effect, but doing that around here would be an instant regret.
I was at the tail end of a 1000 mile road trip on my Triumph yesterday. I had stopped for a little break and some coffee right before getting into 20/25 miles of curves and some tight sections of switch backs in the Serria mountains. This video had popped up, what great timing. Well I home now, thanks again for these videos. ✌
We had a fairly experienced rider in our club crash in a curve a few weeks ago. Looks like he hit his front brake going in locking up his front wheel. He doesn’t have abs brakes😎😎
My Road name is Eeyore. I Ride like a Brand New Rider. Round here, you don't fly through corners. WAY to many Trucks pulling trailers and "Mud" Trucks on tiny Roads. Lots of "debris" from them dropping a tire, or 3, off the edge and tossing asphalt, rocks and sand into the road. Plus I started down in the Sandhills of NC. You earn a healthy respect for slick roads with a quickness. I've hit slick spots in turns on Rides. Had the tail kick more than once but I've always been at a speed that I could control it. So I'll gladly take the "New" Rider label even though I have been Riding since '07. Rather be safe than sorry. I don't heal like I used to.
Your example at the 3:00 mark is exactly what happened to me. I started to get over confident and went on auto pilot around a corner, my body auto corrected a little too early and in the literal second or two of realization of my mistake I was into the grass shoulder that disappeared into a ditch. I walked away more or less unharmed, the bike was fixable but insurance totaled it b/c of its age. I have a new bike now and a better respect for the hobby. Ride like you have a pet bear, love it with a healthy fear/respect and you will do just fine.
My corner mantra is, slow in fast out, enjoy the scenery and slow down, it's not a race, let any traffic pass you out that's driving too close or putting pressure on you, you can filter past them all at the next stop in traffic anyway.
Thanks again, Kevin. Always great advice. I'm within my first year of riding and I always have your voice in my head when out on the road. So far so good.
This was a very important and well thought out post, however the growing sentiment (especially in level 2 training like Yamaha Street Champs) is that the MSF has this all wrong. Although I agree that brand new riders may not be ready for trail braking on the bike, the concept needs to be introduced and CAN be introduced safely with off bike training techniques (YSC teaches it this way). After I finished BRC 1 and was one year into riding I did exactly what you described - I was over confident, went wide into an oncoming traffic lane having no idea what I did wrong. I understood Slow, Look Press and roll, did well in my BRC 1 class and was by no means a "Hooligan" rider. I also had NO idea that trail braking was a bona fide technique - never heard of it - until I researched it on my own - for the EXACT reason you cited - because there is NO way to determine the proper entry speed into a curve - especially an unfamiliar one. This is why learning trail braking - at any level - is critical. It removes the need to try and figure out entry speed into a curve. Come in hot? Trail brake. Hit a highway off-ramp that is unexpectedly sharp? Trail Brake. Maintain total control over the bike and not leave your cornering to chance? TRAIL BRAKE. I know you are sick of me challenging your posts, but I do so in the best interest of new riders - the MSF needs to get up to speed on this and at a minimum, introduce the concept off-bike to new riders. Too many folks come out of BRC-1 with no idea how to control the bike at speed in corners and slow look press and roll does not cut it - and that is why 1-3 year riders go wide.
I rode for a lot of years using only slow - look - press and roll and never ran wide. It does work but it requires the rider to to be looking ahead. (Always be able to brake in the distance you can see clearly up the road) With that said, I agree that I think for the skilled rider, trail braking is a better option. It does require a rider with good brake and throttle control and many new riders do not have that. The problem for the MSF is you have a class of riders with a HUGE variance of riding skill. They have to teach to the lowest skill level or the success rate would plummet. www.mcrider.com/motorcycle-corner-technique-i-made-the-change-safer-better-smoother/
@@MCrider All valid points. I feel like what the MSF should do is this: Teach BRC1 unchanged - BUT - for students who pass, offer an optional, 25 minute (off bike) intro to trail braking at the end of the BRC1 course - this way new students will clearly understand that there is a another skill they need to be aware of - I know in my case, this would have been a game changer for me. It took veering into an on coming traffic lane for me to understand there was another technique out there. I did not even know it existed prior to that close call. Thanks
🤚yes my ambition outweighed my talent more than once. Thank God I lived to learn. Side note: took an msf course in Montgomery AL where they discussed excess corner speed and what to do if you realize you are going too fast. Instructor hung just his upper body into the corner by bending one arm and straightening the other (example: leaning right with left arm straight and right arm bent). This allowed the motorcycle to remain slightly upright and prevent hard parts from scraping. This technique combined with countersteer and looking through the turn might reduce the risk of levering the rear tire. Of course he emphasized correct entry speed was always best.
Was practicing the look where you are going and noticed that when you are on a blind turn you are tempted to not do this. But also it is this super clear message of discomfort. I need to look there. There is through some trees. I need to slow down. If you can't look far enough ahead for this to work it seems likely you are going too fast. Least it is the case for me. This hobby is interesting. All about riding a bike that could do a thing way faster at the right speed not at what it's capable speed is. Yeah there is basically no limit on my acceleration. What is the right amount for the conditions and my state?
The definition of rider must account for "continuity", so someone who holds a motorcycle licence for 20 years but has been active a year or two at a time with long periods of inactivity is not in the same class as someone with 5 years of continuous activity. Where I live I also hear about riders involved in crashes who were in the first category: they got their licence in the 70s or 80s without any training and 40 years later they decide to rekindle the passion by hitting (literally) the road.
Gotta say, I'm a pretty hard trail braking advocate for new riders. You evrn explicitly say why: if you don't know how a corner is going to play out, how much do you slow down? With slow/look/press/roll, *there's no way to know how much to slow, particularly if you're inexperienced*. At least in my copious experience, the majority of corners if you've not ridden that road before you're not going to know how long the corner is, and as such you're asking a new, inexperienced rider to make a decision about what speed to enter a corner at without all the information. "Just ride slower!" Is useless, too. How much slower? The problem remains, and it leaves new riders going slower and slower. Meanwhile, the person trailing into the corner is already loading the forks. He continues trailing until the corner is "solved" and he's found the apex. If it turns out he's going too fast, he can gradually increase braking pressure to shed speed much more safely without disturbing the motorcycles' balance. I strongly feel teaching new riders SLPR and treating trail braking as an advanced technique is doing them a major disservice.
I would include the number of miles traveled in your definition of a new rider. Someone who has been riding for 5 years, but only has 100 miles under their belt should probably count as a new rider.
Can always learn something watching your video's . But one years experience not all riders are equall, some have 150 + hours (1\2 hr per day) , others have only 10 or 12 ( once per month)
*New rider, only been riding for like a week. No license YET. Was doing great this week until today I stopped at a stop sign. Was trying to turn left and turned way to wide and tried to avoid hitting the sidewalk so like an idiot I hit the front break while the wheel was turnt(I know, never do that, just panicked I guess) did it in front of some girls. Totally embarrassing lol. Can't believe I did that. Luckily I got the bike up my self and got it home but the way it fell it bent my fucking clutch shifter in so I can't adjust it. Put it in neutral like I wanted to. Luckily I drove Ir home in 1st gear... Still can't believe that happened* 😡😣😔
I've now being watching Kevin for a few months, great staff, good work and certainly very helpful. However I believe that due care & anticipation as well as reading the road's condition is a must for safe riding.
Sadly some are not willing to practice & fail @ simple Drills that help improve skills greatly. Vision is one of the most important skills at any speed (look near at Lo speed contributes to off balance stop, not looking far at mid/hi speed can lead to crash in a corner)
Funny thing you defined "new riders". I've seen plenty of examples of poor riding from those with many years of experience. Many prefer to duck-walk, can't make "proper" turns from a stop, and have issues doing u-turns on a normal road. :-)
I've been riding about 2.5 years and these slow turns are the toughest for me. Like coming up on an intersection where I turn left or right but not a stop sign, just roll up and 90 degree turn.
The most common reason I will go wide is I had not checked the road ahead closely enough. There will be a pothole, gravel , oil or whatever I had to work hard to train myself to look at the road surface too in a turn and to turn tighter vs wide.
Before we enter any corner, ie. turn for it. we obtain the correct entry speed? Two things first, we position ourselves on the road in a position to order to obtain the best and furthest possible view of the road or bend ahead. In order to ascertain the correct speed we look as far as we can and that would be to the vanishing or limit point. That is on any bend where both sides of the road meet and say to ourselves, can I stop in that amount of space between me and that point Its the tarmac that I can see ahead and be able to stop in on my side of the road. So say for instance we determine that we able to stop at our speed now of 40 mph in a distance of some 120ft.. Then we look at and for that distance that we can see and if its about 120 ft. and we are keeping up with that vanishing point ie. its not coming towards us anymore and we are maintaining that safer distance from us to that point, then that is a correct and safe speed to take that corner i and follow keeping that distance between you If it gets closer then slow and if its moving away from you one might, just might be able to lift your speed a little. If we can see say almost 200 ft then our speed of about 50 mph would be acceptable and maintainable .At speeds of some 60 mph we are looking for a distance around 250 ft. of sight which is along way. In order to take such a safe reading of distance we must first be in the correct and safe position to be able to see as far down that road as is possible, so for a left hand turn in the USA we take up a position over towards the right hand kerb or verge but about 2 ft away from it to remove any possible dangers that may lie there. For a right hand bend we do the opposite and move over to the mid line but again some 2/3 ft away from it and potential dangers of say approaching traffic. Again we follow the curvature of the bend to pass the apex where we start to see the bend opening up. From the start of the bend where we turn our front wheel in where we should add a little throttle, just enough to keep a steady and constant none acceleration or slowing speed throughout the bend and until after the apex is passed. What we do not do is accelerate throughout a bend at all. as that could lead us to run off at a tangent and in a straight line. Only after passing that apex behind us and with the bend straightening up we can lift the bike up into a more upright position and then, with just perhaps a little amount of lean left, say 10% or less we can commit to some degree of steady acceleration up to the speed we may wish to obtain on that road ahead. .
Great video as always I've learned so much from watching. Only have one suggestion regarding how to measure the experience of a new motorcycle rider. It seems like they are a lot of Weekend Warriors. For example I bought a used 2012 Fatboy with only 1200 miles from somebody with 7 years experience. I myself have only 3 years experience, but with 12000 + miles a year. Like to know your thoughts on time / mileage for experience. Thanks again for all the knowledge you share.
I need advice Kevin, how to get confidence in high speed? It seems that I'm stuck at 50kmh, while people drive around 70kmh. Speed limit is 80 for highway. I feel like I'm the slowest guy. Sorry, it's out of topic from your videos,
I go up to the High School's parking lot every spring and practice cornering and do figure 8's and practice, practice and practice. Been riding for 40+ yrs Don't ever be so proud that you think you know it all.
You got that right Dave3000! I just got my 50 years riding patch as a 60 year old woman and I still look at that machine with respect!
You dont need to go to a parking lot to practice your riding skills. Every time you ride practice stopping harder than you need to if there is no one behind you. Not at every stop sign, but at least a few times on each ride.
Pick a point in the road ahead and practice swerving around it, again when you have the road to yourself, dont freak out other drivers.
When you are in a curve pick a spot ahead and move your bike to the other side of the lane, so you can avoid obstacles in a corner.
Also when you have no one on your tail slow down short of a stop sign or red light and creep up on it at 1 or 2mph with your feet on the pegs. If the cross street is clear continue slowly without putting your feet down. If you can ride slow and take a corner at 2mph, you dont need to ride in circles in a parking lot.
I am riding 50 years. I Tom my forst MSF skills class three years ago. I’m taking it again next week. While I think I’m Steve McQueen , the first class showed me “why” I did certain things I thought I did “naturally “ .
Then the teacher explained why .
I had a good time for 5 hours and messed with the teacher a bit. The best $150 I ever spent on riding .
It was worth taking every few years .
Shake the cob webs out of this 64 year old grumpy of wind bags head for another season.
Stay safe Brothers and Sisters.
Keep the rubber side down.
Peace
I'm a new rider (
You hit it! Been riding since a kid in 1965,still learning. Every situation has as different reaction/ result. There are no experts.
One of my mantras: I can always recover from taking a corner too slowly. I may not be able to recover from taking a corner too fast.
Best advice. Know your limits and watch the corner from way ahead of you, minimum of 100+ feet.
This is a fundamental aspect of riding and driving here in the UK. It's in the Highway Code.
Man I love to ride my bike home not a rental car or ambulance.
I could have gone 10 mph faster through that corner is always a better thought than I wish I would have gone 10 mph slower.
Not if you've just robbed a bank and are running from the police ... ;o)
@@nickthequick -
Or if you're Tiger Woods trying to get away from the wife wielding a 5 iron.
Trail brake! . Helpd
The slower I am in a corner the more wobbly and unstable I feel. You have to know your bike. Respect it...maybe a bit of healthy fear of its power but you command that fear. You have to lean and push thru and keep your throttle smooth and timed with the lean. You can lean that suckered over especially if your on a sport bike a dyna or something like that. Baggers obviously are different but if you're not easily spooked you'll be fine. Definitely looking all the way through the turn or corner is key to that confidence....the bike becomes one with your body and counter steering and it becomes easy. I had a corner a while back that always gives me trouble bc I ride in the PNW where it's raining and slick and I hadn't rode that stretch for a while and I caught myself not looking all the way thru so I didn't naturally lean into it like I usually do. Well obviously it got a bit sketchy but I was fine...it just reminded me of the basics. The wet curvy mountain roads of the PNW have made me an all around rider I feel. Its been a challenge learning to ride up here...but I tell people who are new to riding...get a dirt bike...a 250cc something with a load of tourqe and get comfortable on that. It don't hurt as bad when u drop in the dirt. I came up in motocross so I think that helped a ton. Anyway good video. I been riding for almost 20 years and I still have to reremember the basics from time to time.
Nice bonzo
I started watching your channel in Feb. 2020 and have already been riding for over twenty-five years. And I can't help but wonder how in the hell I'm still here. I would say It was just plain luck. Never before had I paid so much attention to all the bad habits I had, People now will ask me what to do any different scenarios and I'm able to give them a correct riding method thats going to help them. The biggest suggestion I give them is to watch MCrider. I usually send them a couple reminders through the week to make sure they watch these videos. Thank You Kevin
Wow! Thank you David, word of mouth is always the best reference.
Well said. I got back in the street bike saddle after years off-road, and it is great to have these refreshers to practice with (not just watch!) and to purge ineffective habits.
A thought on cornering.
A lot of new riders are taught to look through the corner as you described.
But ... they do that as if they have a steel rod that runs up their spine from the seat to the top of their head.
In other words, they keep their eyes parallel with their shoulders.
This means that as they lean over, everything in their vision appears to tilt.
Momentum and centrifugal force tells their inner ears (where our balance is controlled) that everything is fine.
So when the balance system and the visual system suddenly disagree on whether everything is fine, panic is sure to follow.
Its my experience that most learners are not told to keep their eyes parallel with the horizon (as they point their nose/chin in the direction they want to go).
When all this fell into place for me I suddenly became much more aware of the bike moving around under me and how much easier it was to make the very fine adjustments to inputs coming into, during and coming out of corners.
Keeping your field of vision on the same plane regardless of what angle your body is at means your subconscious mind and autonomous nervous system have one less variable to work with when gliding around those favourite twisties at whatever speed your skill and confidence level makes comfortable.
Love your videos Kevin.
Ride safe.
Seems like you just explained to me why I find it easier to corner when I work to keep my eyes level with the horizon. Txs.
Very informative
I'm a new rider with very little experience one the pavement. I bought my bike a few weeks ago. I've been watching your channel off and on for about a year and tryed to absorb as much as I can. Just finished a parking lot session and I could hear your voice in my head every second. Thank you for all you do. I'll definitely keep watching and learning.
Keep watching everything you can find ! Congratulations
Pick your feet up and turn your head seemed to be repeated many times.
Ok , “ you’re a little hard on those back beaks I heard too. I occasionally stood on them . Hell he said stop as fast as I could . 🤪
Watch everything you can. Mcrider has good content. There are other channels that do as well. It's not about size of person or weight of bike, but the correct technique to make it do what you want it to do. Keep it basic at 1st, know your clutch, and brakes, and watch out for other people. Practice, practice, and practice good fundamentals, if you can take a course I suggest it. Ride your own ride, don't try to keep up with more experience riders. Do your thing as you get comfortable. Slowly grow out of your comfort zone and you'll be going wherever you want and be wanting a bigger bike soon. You got this
Congrats on the purchase! Practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, well you know, practice! I've been riding for 25 years and also police motor trained and ride a police motor too. I practice, practice, well you know, practice, as much as I can. You can never practice enough or learn enough. Stay safe and many happy miles on that bike.
A new rider is any rider that rides less then 2500 miles a year regardless of how long they have ridden.Those of us in colder climates lose up to 25% of their skill level over the winter and have sluggish muscle memory for the first few hundred miles.
You’re not lying. New Englander here. It’s almost may and I’m still super rusty right now, coming out of hibernation.
I'll agree with that. I'm off the bike for around 5 months over winter. I have to get used to riding all over again come the spring. Years ago I used to ride cheaper older bikes and was bolder than I am now.
I was always taught that _your speed on the road should be such that _*_you can safely stop_*_ in the distance you can clearly see in front of you._ As you rightly say, that will vary with each and every corner, road and the weather conditions.
That Sir is rule number 1. My Father gave me that advice when I was 14 years old learning to drive
Your Father gave you sound advice. Sadly I see most motorcyclists and car drivers taking blind bends faster than the distance that they can stop in.
That and to always ride within your skill level.
One of my rules for driving/riding
@@wollywolly2734 Its actually rule no. 2 the first rule is never ever sacrifice your safety or the safety of others for any other consideration.
When I first started riding, I watched this guy I thought his safety advice was really lame and boring but then I crashed a few times and I respect everything this man says so much now and he helps me humble myself. Plus, he is the most relaxing motorcycle advice giver on youtube. Thank you for your videos please keep it up!!
As soon as I can get out of the parking lot after practicing all the slow speed stuff from the other guy, I can’t wait to try some of this stuff out. Should be about 2 years
GIVE IT UP.
I never ride aggressively. Do the speed limit. The speed limit signs are there for a reason. Go slower into the turns and pay attention and you will always hold your line and get through the turn. Kevin is AWESOME.
I always approach unfamiliar corners slower than needed. My buddies say I'm too slow in them. Lol
I go as fast or slow as I want to.
If those “riding with me” don’t like it , they don’t have to ride with me.
YOU have to determine what speed is right for you based on your known abilities. I've been riding for 25 years and I learned to ride in police motor school and re-certify every year in that school. I too take corners I don't know or can't look thru well, slowly. I don't care who doesn't like it.
40 plus years ago, I knew a ground school instructor that repeatedly said that generally speaking, the most dangerous person in the air, was the 200 hour pilot. Now, with enough experience to "relax" & be "comfortable", but maybe just not enough experience to see a problem coming and avert it. In the decades since, I've seen "200 hr pilots" everywhere. Cars, trucks, heavy equipment, machinery operators and motorcycles. You name it. Even in my mirror a number of times. Knowledge of this principal can be a valuable defence while working to master some demanding skill sets. Stay safe, keep learning, & listen to Kevin. Thank you so much for these MCR vidios.
Has anybody done a survey to count how many riders who turned wide knew that pressing forward on the inside grip is the easiest minimal-effort way to make the bike turn tighter? I believe this is likely the most common reason for these crashes. All the other things are supplementary. "Pressing on that right handgrip" is not a sufficient teaching. You have to say "press FORWARD", because it is counterintuitive, and explain why it is counterintuitive and why it works. If you just briefly say "press" in passing and then distract riders with all the other details, they'll still crash. Slow parking lot exercises focusing only on what happens when the handlebars are moved one way, then the other, keeping everything else centered, will demonstrate the effect. Slow, look, press, and roll does not help if the rider does not know precisely what you mean by "press". When the rider presses the right grip forward (not down), the bars turn slightly to the left; then, because of rake and trail (which you must explain properly as well), the front contact patch shifts to the left of your direction of travel, which causes the center of gravity of the bike-and-rider to fall to the right of an imaginary line connecting the rear and front contact patches, which makes the bike lean right, which makes the bars turn right (because of the caster effect, like the wheels on a shopping cart), even though you're still pressing the right grip forward, because the weight of the bike and the forces on the fork are way stronger than the force of your right hand pressing forward, so the bike turns to the right. Pressing forward more strongly makes the bike turn more sharply. This takes very little effort, and if you pull REARWARD with the opposite hand at the same time, it takes even less effort. Riders turning wide simply do not know this. It is not a failure of where they're looking, nor a failure to remember "slow, look, press, and roll", nor being distracted, nor any other reason. When I started in 2007, I first took the MSF course, and by the end of the class, they taught me NOTHING about these things. Immediately afterwards, I bought and read all the books by Keith Code, Nick Ienatsch, Lee Parks, and Vittore Cossalter, which taught me what MSF skipped in their misguided effort to dumb things down so that all riders can understand. Stop dumbing down for us, and teach us what we really need to know!
I created a skill level system for our riding club, but it is based on miles ridden, not years. Basically, I have riders graduate to the next level every 1000 miles. There are 5 levels. Completing the MSF course is worth 500 miles. Going a year without riding deducts 500.
I've only been riding for a year, so great tips like these are appreciated. Thanks!
I've been riding Honda Goldwings for 25 years. I find that safe speeds for beginners to enter most curves is the State's recommended speed for that curve. Once you enter the curve, you can accelerate through the curve. More experienced riders can easily enter most curves at 10 mph faster than the State's recommended speed for the curve.
I'm a 60 year old returning rider and I'm grateful for those recommended speed signs on the corners. I could take them faster but I want that safety margin. I mostly ride two lane country roads. If I'm not going fast enough for the locals who know those curves, I pull off and let them pass. I'm going to ride my ride.
@@Liberty4Ever By all means - stay safe. As you get more experience you will be able to comfortably take the turns at 10 mph over the posted speeds.
My nemesis, turning, particularly right turns. I'm practicing, but I also tend not to turn my stupid head. Working on it! I've bee riding for a year now, working to get better. Thank you for this important point of not letting a year of riding make you think you know it all. Great video!
Best piece of advice I was ever given - and Kevin said it again in this video - is turn your nose to where you want the bike to go. Don't just look with your eyes, turn your face. It takes practice, but it DOES work.
I have over 20 yrs on Goldwings. When I went from a 2010 (manual) to a 2019 DCT, I fell into the "New Rider" category for about 3 months until I became comfortable and confident in the new bike.
I took the Advanced Rider Course on my DCT wing. It helped a lot.
Just because I've been riding motorcycles for 50 years doesn't make me less cautious every time I get on my bike, your channel is very good,as for going too wide into a bend, Easter Sunday two years ago my friend did exactly that, experienced careful rider, one mistake met a truck head on and he's gone, be careful out there.
Yes. The more I ride. The more I realize you must always be humble.
Yep. I can fully agree. Beginners will drop their bikes at slow speeds or when totally stationary. I've my license for three and a half years now and I dropped my bike three times in the first year. First time at a gas station as I was leaving and couldn't somehow get my left foot on the ground, second time in slow speed traffic as I was yielding, steered to the right and used the front brake - bike fell to the right which is that classic noob mistake and the third time in my backyard which was the most embarassing drop because I just forgot to put the side stand down. Dropped it right in front of me. After those incidents no more drops. Also all those drops were performed with an old beater Honda NTV for 600€. Got my new bike Yamaha Tracer after a year and a half in and never dropped that one.
To all newbies I recommend a used and cheap bike as a first bike. Just my 2 cents. 😁😃
I'm glad I found this site ( and became a member). I've been riding for almost 40 years. My training was my friend John. I've only been in 2 crashes the whole time. The reason? Pure, unadulterated LUCK. My biggest bike had been a 750. I recently retired and bought a HD Deluxe 107 engine. This is a much bigger bike than I'm used to. That, plus my age, has made me more caution minded. Over the years, aside from luck, I've gained experience. I've also gained overconfidence and laziness. Going through the videos here, and on the site, remind me of what I should be doing and teaches me things John never did. Noobies: pay close attention! Old timers: learning and refreshing never hurt!
I've been riding for exactly 60 years now (starting at 15 1/2) and will be on my bike tomorrow. I have to admit that I've learned more about proper and safe riding in the last three years than I had learned the previous 57 years thanks to MCRider and the practices Kevin recommends. With regard to taking corners, as I approach a corner, I focus on it, I look through it and stake out a path so that I can stay smack in the middle of my lane without drifting wide or skirting the wrong lane. This makes riding more enjoyable and relaxing with a feeling of safety and yet I get through the corners at a satisfying speed. I now drive my cars this way too and I'm a better driver for it. I do not "trail brake" nor do I see any reason to do so.
Except that the middle of the lane is the most likely location for grip-reducing materials like oil, antifreeze, etc....
@@125AXer True, but I am going at such a rate that I can easily go a little narrower or, better yet, a little wider and still not scare myself. Concentration on what that stretch of road looks like enables you to spot those things while there's still time to get away. Taking a maximum speed line through a corner leaves you little room to maneuver. Anyway, I'm still here and like they say, "there are old riders and there are bold riders, but there are no old bold riders" and alternatively, "life is short, let's get it over with."
your intentions are good and your logic is mostly sound
but staying in the center of your lane thru a curve is not the safest path
and you will run the risk of becoming fixated to stay in your prechosen line
the best way to take a corner or curve is the Outside-Inside-Outside path taught in the MSF beginners course
I wont use the space here to describe it, you can easily look it up
no matter what happens in the curve that is the path that gives you the best options to compensate and adjust when you need to
and since you are moving from one side of the lane to the other going in and coming out of the curve, you are not developing the habit of riding with your hands frozen on the grips in the same position all the way thru - you will be practicing changing your path in the curve on every curve, so when you need to because of an obstacle, it will be second nature.
@@kenwittlief255 Very likely it was before you were born that I used to take that outside - inside - outside cornering path, but have found that if I approach a curve on the outside, but no faster than a speed in which I can instinctively maintain my bike in the center of my lane once I have actually entered the curve, I feel more in control in case obstacles in the road require me to go a little wide or a little narrow. Believe me, when you try to maintain a neutral position in a curve while concentrating on the road ahead and what might be on it, your "hands frozen on the grips" is just not what is happening, rather it is a dynamic interaction between awareness of what might be in your path, countersteering & balance, along with having your eyes looking where you want to go so your bike instinctively goes there. Years ago I would cut the corner and then go wide on exiting and that tempted me to go fast through the corners. Too many times I would end up dangerously close to the outside edge, inches away from the dirt and subsequent loss of traction. After scaring myself one times too many, I stopped exiting wide. I once knew a guy riding a Harley in a pack, irresponsibly lead by an off-duty CHP who led his pack at full speed around corners. The LAST time my colleague rode in the pack, he ended up running out of room and he MASHED every bone in his body. After more than a million + $ in medical expenses, he could no longer make his own blood cells and died when he foolishly exposed himself to the flu. No, I stay away from edges, inside and outside (except when entering), thank you very much.
@@kenwittlief255 Oh, one other thing, I am aware of the importance of "received wisdom" and learning from those more experienced and/or intelligent than I am, but I am also aware of the importance of evaluating that received wisdom for one's self and the importance of testing it against one's own individual needs and practices. There are many things I have been taught "for beginners" that I have found are not hard truths, but are starting points for me to experiment with to see if perhaps I can come up with something better so that it is a better fit for ME and my circumstances. I can tell you that there were many motorcycle "truths" that I learned decades ago, but which have been superseded on Kevin's RUclips site.
I agree with your definition of a crash with one small exception and it probably only applies to touring big twin Harleys. I don't consider dragging the floor boards a crash, but your not far away at that point. One of the things that I almost learned the hard way is to not be afraid to lean the bike. I was riding a friend's 850 Norton many decades ago and almost high sided it because I didn't lean far enough and bounced off of a curb in the opposite lane. I was lucky I didn't crash and neither the bike nor I were hurt. I did scare me and in 40 plus years of riding I haven't repeated that mistake. Keep the good stuff coming Kevin.
I don’t consider boards dragging a crash either
The older I get, the faster I was. My days of going fast are over. I ride at or near the speed limit, and never in the rain or rush hour traffic. Been riding since 1974...so far so good...accident free...knock on wood. Current wheels are a 2020 Kawasaki Vulcan S.
Me too.
Yeah, I am sort of with you. I live in the DC area which has some of the worst traffic in the nation. I have to ride in it to get away from it. There are lots of beautiful rides close to the area such as the Blue Ridge Mountains and the shore. But, like you, I don't like to ride in the rain and try my best to not do it. (maybe once or twice a year I get caught in it and I find a place to pull over and wait it out.) I own a touring cruiser, a 2007 Yamaha Royal Star tour deluxe, and the fastest I'll cruise on it is 75 mph. I see lots of guys on cruisers who fly past me doing 80-90 on the highways and roads. I could do that too, but why? I don't understand their mentality we buy cruisers to enjoy the ride and surroundings IMO, why rush it and shorten that experience? Not to mention increased speed, increased chance of an accident.
@@kman-mi7su yes I like cruising at speed limit that way I m more relax not worrying about cops. The ride is what it's about not how fast you get there.
@@barendfourie6687 Well I do cruise a little faster than the limit on the highway, but yes, like you correctly put it, its about the ride not how fast you get there.
Scuttled my Blade on a reducing radius corner here in U.K. about 10 years ago, grabbed too much brake after a slight slip dipping in. I’ve been back to the scene of the crime many times and it is a nasty corner, but I learnt a lot from the experience. I’m sure if I hadn’t braked the bike would have settled and taken me through. A couple of years later I was touring in Wales and half way round a corner there was water running off a mountain over the road. I resisted the very strong temptation to brake and the bike glided through with no issues.
An additional issue afflicts intermediate riders: the failure to make a distinction between speed and acceleration. Inexperienced riders might take a corner at a relatively low speed, conclude mid-corner that they've got the corner under control, get on the throttle a little too hard, and get shocked when they run wide. I think that controlling the direction of a bike using the throttle is something that I've rarely heard explained directly. Instructors do say that the bike tends to straighten up when you use the throttle, but using this effect to control your direction is something I had to discover on my own.
Thanks for this vid. As a rookie this is going to be invaluable. 👍
Hope so!
Nicely done.
One thing you left out: riders run wide in curves because they do not know how far they can lean the bike over before it will scrape, and they get scared and do not push the grip harder into the curve when they could. Most riders never come close to leaning and turning the bike as hard as the bike can go, and instead go off the road.
Its better to push the bike over too far and have it scrape, than to go off the road on the far side, or worse, to drift head-on into oncoming traffic.
I was in an accident a few months ago. There was oil on a country road and I slid, regained and then slid again and crashed. Now I’m gradually getting more comfortable but I am constantly trying to examine road conditions in corners and not looking ahead as I should be. I hope I get over this soon. Great video.
Thank you, I got my new bike for one week now, watching your videos help a lot. The problem with cornering starts when you go above legal speed, The roads and the curves are not engineered just for cars, the speed signs give you an idea before a corner, you should use that speed and then adjust your own speed according to your riding skills. Roads are not the place to practice our track skills.
Be mindful of more than that. Sometimes a anomaly in our own minds takes place and causes danger to land right in our laps in the form of a devastatingly disastrous crash. Curves sneak up on even the most seasoned of riders.
I'm 59. Been riding all types of bikes since I was 14 years old, off & on. I understand corners, braking, situational awareness, etc, etc. Other vehicle, non-motorcycle drivers plus smartphones put my eyes & brains on FIRE! Motorcycles are hard to see, period! Distracted drivers on smartphones just PISS ME OFF!😊 Thanx for all your time Kevin!😊
No one so far spoke about which gear you should be in.
I've found that you should always be in a gear which allows you to feel confident to accelerate in.
I.e. if you are going too fast, even slow, but your gear is high so that you need to freewheel, is when you run wide.
Gear down before the corner so that you have the confidence to accelerate
the first time as a new rider you encounter a decreasing radius turn unexpectedly is pretty dicey. I'm in that 1yr ish range. I still take corners fairly slow. And by slow, i guess i mean, i go the speed limit, or what the "turn" speed signs suggest. I know my bike can probably handle more speed, but I don't feel I can, so unless I know the turns, I keep it real reasonable. which is probably the least "motorcycle" thing to say. but eh... rather get home safe than have my ego be why i ride.
As a shiny new rider, I do that too. I figure if they say a car should go 30, on a bike I’m sho nuff safe at 30. Make fun all you want.
I made this exact mistake as a brand new rider, just yesterday and had to apply the brakes. It was a close call but I thank God I made it out without crashing and believe prayer made the difference... The first thought that came to mind was your thumbnail “Don’t Run Wide!” So before going out today, I am watching... and praying. Thank you for this vital information. 👍
I learned really quickly about the dangers of the front break in turns when I "dropped" my bike going ~3-5km/h at a stop sign. I'm happy I had that experience at low speed when i first started - good experience of what NOT to do.
Yes Nick I guess it's like "when you pay for your lesson you learn better"
I too had a "little" crash on day of my MSF class. They let us get there early and ride around the parking lot. I was killing it and feeling good with 1 day of training under my belt. They had us start and had everyone lined up behind me asking me to lead the line to the start. Feely all kind of cocky I took off, got to the first curve going a little too fast so I grabbed the front brake (hadn't mastered the rear brake yet) and you know what happened. Over I went. Turns out besides breaking one of the mirrors off I also sprained my ankle. Finished the class and passed easily. The next morning I could not walk so off to the emergency room I went. Lesson learned that day - no heavy front brake when making a turn...
Just got my Ninja 400 last week and been watching all your videos. Appreciate the help 🙏🏼
Situation Awareness!
Turn signals and brake lights are to communicate with others on the road. I like many others have been riding for a couple decades. At 14 I picked up my uncle's 47 Indian Chief and my cousin taught me to ride. Two years later I bought my cousin's 65 Electraglide. That was 1981 and put down a few bikes and I've been put down. Everytime I know I stopped paying attention to my surroundings or motorcycle.
I see to many riders with cell phones mounted on their bars or looking too long at the landscape.
In every " accident" I am at fault. Personal responsibility for situation awareness is everyone's!
Thank You for your videos. I'm not too old or too " experienced" to learn from you.
You all are in my prayers
Hoka Hey
Hello Kevin. I've been riding for about 8 months and your videos have helped me tremendously and have been able to get out of critical situations by following your instruction, except the other day, I went down going about 30 to 35 mph. I installed a phone mount on my bike and on the first bump that I hit, my phone fell off, my first reaction was to look back while braking and worried about my phone not to get ran over by the cars behind me, I slowed down a bit too fast, fished tailed the bike and down I go. I only had a couple scratches and a sore knee, thank God. I was feeling down and depressed becuase I could've avoided that situation, but I didn't, my reaxtion was faster than my mind to think how to handle the situation, I guess I was more worried about my phone than my safety and that's a big no no.
Awww I’m glad you’re ok 👌 Hope that knee gets better soon!! Stay safe
The best lessons are the ones where we don’t get too injured. 😉 Glad you are OK.
Good your ok. It is always good to asses what happened so you know what you need to do in the future. Sounds like you used only the rear brake. I have been riding for years and recently had an accident in a curve 3 minutes from my home. I probably did 10 things wrong. The worse was target fixation as I came closer to the side of the road instead of looking up ahead. I literally drove off the side of the road upright at the time. The next time I went down that road I could not believe I was literally 1 to 2 seconds from the end of the curve, just a few feet. If I had just looked up I'm sure I would have been fine. Wasn't paying attention to riding the bike, too fast into the turn, no downshift, panicked, failed to look up the road, could have slowed down. Felt like I should have given up riding as I could not believe I fd up so bad.
For me I found that more than actual corners, turns on older winding roads and hairpin on ramps often have a varying radius so the turn might start out with a particular radius then get tighter halfway through.
That's happens way too often around here!
Kevin your videos are a wake-up call to me I'm at the overconfidence stage I bought a lighter smaller bike more flexible in the corners and I've been forgetting all the lessons you taught me like Trail braking. Without your videos I've would have not been here or worse been here but can't ride anymore thanks for all you do
Glad to help
@MCRider - Really enjoy your tutorials, Kevin. On this one, I gotta say determining "New Rider" by Years is an imperfect method. I've owned my used '07 Softail Deluxe for 4 months now. I take it out 5 - 6X/week. Each ride logs between 20-40 miles here in AZ, not to mention a few 100-mile day trips with fellow riders. On my daily rides, I always work on my skills & strategy: proper stopping (left leg), progressive braking, following my nose, lane positioning. My rides always include minimum 10 mins in a giant church parking lot to practice my slow-speed cornering around small islands throughout the empty lot, as well as U-Turns and Emergency braking. I work to reduce my U-turn radius to within 2 parking spaces, so far getting it down to 3 spaces. No problem with the cornering & emergency braking, which I thoroughly enjoy!
I've logged 1400 miles in 4 months so far. I know I definitely have more to learn and remain humble. By the same token, I recognize that I've put in more "skills" effort time in than most straight-line "weekend warriors" who've ridden for years.
Am I still a new rider? Probably, but my seat time and dedication to skills work has built up a much-appreciated confidence level. Someday I'll take some Enhanced Skills classes to further improve. For now, I shudder at the thought of dropping my pristine (unprotected) Deluxe just so I work on doing a turn in 20' instead of 30'.
I approach riding as a meditation. You have to be the state of mind some call being in the present moment. Your inner voice turns off (except maybe you are thinking through what you're doing) and your senses are heightened.
Hey Kevin, how about doing a video for the senior rider. I'm 78 years old and been riding since I was 21. I consider myself a experienced rider but last year I had a cornering accident and laid my bike down. I was in a left turn lane when the car in front of me for some unexplained reason slammed on their brakes. I was too close for a evasive maneuver and applied too much front brake and well, you know the rest. I wasn't hurt badly except for pride and road rash. Since then I've been apprehensive about riding and giving thought of quitting altogether even though I don't really want to. I'm just concerned that maybe I don't have the skills I once had. It's only my second accident in all my years of riding. First one was back around 1990 so I would say I've been blessed.
I met a group this past weekend, and one of the riders was 84 (he was riding with his son and son-in-law who were in their 60's). I hope I'm still riding when I'm your age. 👍
@@beepbop6697 Thanks and I hope your are also. I've certainly been blessed but after the last accident my confidence took a hit. I should not have been following so close but I never expected the person to stop for no apparent reason. Stay alert and stay safe.
@@Sincity4me “following too close” pretty much nails it. So why were you following too close? did you forget not to? Impatient? My thinking that is the root cause and your honest answer to yourself should give you the bigger answer as to whether you should keep riding, take a refresher, or maybe rethink riding.
@@JackTRyan Temporary lapse of good judgement I guess. We were both about 4 cars back and it's a short arrow so I was trying to beat the light I suppose. Actually after the car stopped it resume going through on a red. The guy behind me jumped out to help me get the bike upright and he said the same thing I was thinking " what the H... were they stopping for?" Yeah, I've been rethinking whether at my age it's worth the risk.
Kevin, great video always reminding me of proper technique. Seems like I hear your voice every time I ride and encounter different situations.
I enjoy your channel. I ride a sport bike and appreciate your universal viewpoints.
I appreciate that!
Hey there I sure hope there was alot of Riders that watched this video it sure was 100% helpful to me as well and I've been on 2s since I was a 7 year old kid now 58 and for sure still Ridin more than ever thanks.
More on throttle control to stabilize the bike please. Much more on using the brakes for weight distribution and traction especially at tip in please. While using the brakes is not necessary for every turn, proper use (pressure and timing) is critical (not optional) for turns that require it.
Being a second-year rider, I think about what you I said about confidence every time I go out for a ride now. When I am feeling good about my skills there is a little voice that sounds like Han Solo in the original movie, " don't get cocky, kid! ".
Thank you for making me remind that i need to pay more attention since i am in that 1-2 years of motorcycling experience range. Hope to improve my riding. Cheers 🥂
One of the best motorcycle skills channel on u tube thanks for the tips
Been riding over 60 years and I still learn things every day. Keep up the good work.
Valid points. I often fall victim to that my ambition outweighs my talent situation. I am older, shouldn’t I be wiser by now?!? 🤷🏻♂️
I wish my MSF instructor would have applied more emphasis on the “turn your head!” On the u turn. I still struggle with it, but now I ride a trike (long story regarding my wife’s health), so it isn’t as vital, but I still practice it.
Been riding about 6 years now. The most impactful tip I received in regards to turns was to utilize the Down shift. Lower gear through the turn is so controlled. Just my experience.
Always did this in cars and its the same in a bike. Reason to me manuals are superior to automatic transmissions.
I've ridden for 45 years. I'm also a ff paramedic and was a flight medic for 10 years. I've seen more mc crashes than I would like to.
I would say 90% of the MC crashes I have been on that have been single MC accidents have been left hand wide corners. At least 60% have been Harleys maybe because there are more out there I don't know.
I always said there should be some sort or statistic. I can't say even it's mostly new riders I've seen veteran riders do the same thing.
May 2019 I had sever sepsis, it made an abscess in my neck and I had surgery to cut the bones on the back of my neck, I was in a wheel chair for two months. When I got home I pushed my bike in and out of the garage to wash and wax for about a month, and then I took it in for inspection. My neck is locked I have some mobility. I practiced in parking lots feet up sharp turns and forced my head to look into the turn.
How many miles does the average new rider put on a bike in a year? When I was young, I would put 3000 to 4000 miles a year on a bike. On my new bike, I have put almost 9000 miles in 10 months. It had been 40 years since I had ridden a bike very much, and 25 years since I had ridden at all. I love riding, and ride anytime I can, as much as possible on rural country roads for practice.. I will ride 50 miles or more just to unwind at the end of the day. Much of what I had learned on a bike in the 70s has kept me out of car crashes since. I took a new rider course, and can still hear the instructor yelling "TURN YOUR HEAD".
I really like your videos, and I have learned a lot. Praise God, I have never had a serious crash on the street.
1974 Kawasaki Z1 900 in the 70s.
2020 H-D Road Glide Limited with RDRS
"Slow, look, press, and roll" I am not a fan. I us trail. I like having the break pads engaged with the break disk rotor. If something comes up I just need to increase pressure a little. It also keeps pressure on the front tire for better traction on the contact patch. I know you're talking about beginners, but I think they should start trail breaking earlier in their training. You don't have to come in hot to use trail breaking. Thanks Kevin.
www.mcrider.com/motorcycle-corner-technique-i-made-the-change-safer-better-smoother/
Kevin, I love your videos and I’ve learned a lot from watching them. I do want to challenge your definition of a new rider - one of the attributes, per your definition, is someone with less than three years’ experience. I don’t think time is an accurate attribute. I think you should replace general time with seat time (miles). I am a new rider. I’ve had my bike 3 months now. I took the MSF and have joined a couple different rider groups, whose rides have exposed me to many different driving scenarios (mountains, country, city, rural, etc,). In just 3 months I have put over 3,500 miles on my bike. I know some people who barely put 500 miles on their bike a year. This is why I suggest you replace miles and riding experiences for your definition. I’ve asked several seasoned riders when I should take the intermediate course and pretty regularly hear... “not for at least 6 months”. If I follow that advice, and if I keep my current riding miles as they are now, I will have 7,000 miles under my butt. Is this the right time?
Exactly, Ray! Like you, I have owned my used '07 Softail Deluxe for 5 months now. I take it out 5-6X/week. Each ride logs between 20-40 miles here in AZ, not to mention a few 100-mile day trips with fellow riders. On my dailies, I always include 10 minutes in a church parking lot to practice my U-turns and twisties around the small islands throughout the large, empty lot. Trying to reduce my turning radius to TWO parking spaces, but having trouble turning it in less than 3.
I've logged 1400 miles so far. I know I have more to learn and remain humble. By the same token, I recognize that I've put more "skills" effort in than most straight-line "weekend warriors".
Am I still a new rider. Probably, but my seat time and dedication to skills work has built up a much-appreciated confidence level. Someday I'll take some Skills classes to further improve. For now, I shudder at the thought of dropping my pristine (unprotected) Deluxe just so I can do a turn in 20' instead of 30.
Spot on advice. I started riding from scratch 18 months ago. Got my full licence (UK) last September aged 68. The most amazing thing I found is that on a bike you truely go where you are looking. In 50 years of driving a car I never felt this happening to the same extent. sounds obvious but look properly at where you want to be and (assuming speed is in the right area) you will arrive safely.
All riders need to know COUNTERSTEERING ( anything above 5-10 mph) and leaning turns the bike. This is paramount when a sharper turn is required!! The brain & hands must know to push inside bar and not panic!
Ah the smooth logic and dulcet tones of Papp motorcycle. All part of a complete breakfast.
LOL, is that my new nickname? Papp Motorcycle?
@@MCrider lol that’s for the internet to decide ;)
Spot on! Point your nose as far into the corner as you can, until you find the exit. The bike will follow your nose. My riding abilities grow by leaps and bounds when I started using this technique, along with trail braking. Great video!
Another valuable video. One thing that doesn’t get mentioned much is keeping your head in your lane through a corner. I see it way too often, riders coming through a corner with their tires in their lane but most of their body leaned into the on coming traffic.
I’ve rode for forty years and every one f your videos shows me what I didn’t know. Scares me how careless I have been!
Hey Kevin I enjoy your videos. One thing I haven't heard anyone address is that right hand corners are sharper than left hand corners, at least that's the case if you live in a country where you ride or drive on the right side of the road.
Laid my first Harley down about a month after getting it, 10 years later looking back I pushed way above my skill level at the time lol now I push things way farther than I should
Good stuff, Kevin. Absolutely on track. Been riding about 8 years. I’m almost 72 years young. Your program was a great “remind and review” for me. Thank you as I head out on the road again this year. Blessings, bro.!
Where I live there are a lot of corners with dirt & gravel on the pavement. The streets might be clean but the street sweepers seem to always forget the corners. Any unfamiliar corner you come to is likely to have dust, dirt, or leaves on it. You have to glide through as if on black ice if you don't want an ugly surprise and a bad rash.
On clean corners I used to like to enter fast with enough squeeze on the front brake to shorten the wheelbase, then halfway through (at about the apex) get off the front and accelerate hard through the rest of the corner for a slingshot effect, but doing that around here would be an instant regret.
I was at the tail end of a 1000 mile road trip on my Triumph yesterday. I had stopped for a little break and some coffee right before getting into 20/25 miles of curves and some tight sections of switch backs in the Serria mountains. This video had popped up, what great timing.
Well I home now, thanks again for these videos. ✌
We had a fairly experienced rider in our club crash in a curve a few weeks ago. Looks like he hit his front brake going in locking up his front wheel. He doesn’t have abs brakes😎😎
My Road name is Eeyore. I Ride like a Brand New Rider. Round here, you don't fly through corners. WAY to many Trucks pulling trailers and "Mud" Trucks on tiny Roads. Lots of "debris" from them dropping a tire, or 3, off the edge and tossing asphalt, rocks and sand into the road. Plus I started down in the Sandhills of NC. You earn a healthy respect for slick roads with a quickness. I've hit slick spots in turns on Rides. Had the tail kick more than once but I've always been at a speed that I could control it. So I'll gladly take the "New" Rider label even though I have been Riding since '07. Rather be safe than sorry. I don't heal like I used to.
Excellent information I also find slowing down in corners allows me to assess road condition for possible gravel,sand and water on the road surface.
Your example at the 3:00 mark is exactly what happened to me. I started to get over confident and went on auto pilot around a corner, my body auto corrected a little too early and in the literal second or two of realization of my mistake I was into the grass shoulder that disappeared into a ditch. I walked away more or less unharmed, the bike was fixable but insurance totaled it b/c of its age. I have a new bike now and a better respect for the hobby. Ride like you have a pet bear, love it with a healthy fear/respect and you will do just fine.
Thanks for the latest video, practiced this during my ride this weekend and the corners went much smoother a big 👍
Thanks for the helpful video I lean the Goldwing so far my boots was hitting the gravel😟
I like this video I'm in the 2-3 year bracket. This video was on point. Getting ballsy and having some small but puckers
My corner mantra is, slow in fast out, enjoy the scenery and slow down, it's not a race, let any traffic pass you out that's driving too close or putting pressure on you, you can filter past them all at the next stop in traffic anyway.
Thanks again, Kevin. Always great advice. I'm within my first year of riding and I always have your voice in my head when out on the road. So far so good.
This was a very important and well thought out post, however the growing sentiment (especially in level 2 training like Yamaha Street Champs) is that the MSF has this all wrong. Although I agree that brand new riders may not be ready for trail braking on the bike, the concept needs to be introduced and CAN be introduced safely with off bike training techniques (YSC teaches it this way). After I finished BRC 1 and was one year into riding I did exactly what you described - I was over confident, went wide into an oncoming traffic lane having no idea what I did wrong. I understood Slow, Look Press and roll, did well in my BRC 1 class and was by no means a "Hooligan" rider. I also had NO idea that trail braking was a bona fide technique - never heard of it - until I researched it on my own - for the EXACT reason you cited - because there is NO way to determine the proper entry speed into a curve - especially an unfamiliar one. This is why learning trail braking - at any level - is critical. It removes the need to try and figure out entry speed into a curve. Come in hot? Trail brake. Hit a highway off-ramp that is unexpectedly sharp? Trail Brake. Maintain total control over the bike and not leave your cornering to chance? TRAIL BRAKE. I know you are sick of me challenging your posts, but I do so in the best interest of new riders - the MSF needs to get up to speed on this and at a minimum, introduce the concept off-bike to new riders. Too many folks come out of BRC-1 with no idea how to control the bike at speed in corners and slow look press and roll does not cut it - and that is why 1-3 year riders go wide.
I rode for a lot of years using only slow - look - press and roll and never ran wide. It does work but it requires the rider to to be looking ahead. (Always be able to brake in the distance you can see clearly up the road)
With that said, I agree that I think for the skilled rider, trail braking is a better option. It does require a rider with good brake and throttle control and many new riders do not have that.
The problem for the MSF is you have a class of riders with a HUGE variance of riding skill. They have to teach to the lowest skill level or the success rate would plummet.
www.mcrider.com/motorcycle-corner-technique-i-made-the-change-safer-better-smoother/
@@MCrider All valid points. I feel like what the MSF should do is this: Teach BRC1 unchanged - BUT - for students who pass, offer an optional, 25 minute (off bike) intro to trail braking at the end of the BRC1 course - this way new students will clearly understand that there is a another skill they need to be aware of - I know in my case, this would have been a game changer for me. It took veering into an on coming traffic lane for me to understand there was another technique out there. I did not even know it existed prior to that close call. Thanks
🤚yes my ambition outweighed my talent more than once. Thank God I lived to learn.
Side note: took an msf course in Montgomery AL where they discussed excess corner speed and what to do if you realize you are going too fast. Instructor hung just his upper body into the corner by bending one arm and straightening the other (example: leaning right with left arm straight and right arm bent). This allowed the motorcycle to remain slightly upright and prevent hard parts from scraping. This technique combined with countersteer and looking through the turn might reduce the risk of levering the rear tire. Of course he emphasized correct entry speed was always best.
Just bought a 21 fatboy put 50 miles on it and it's going to take some getting used to probably not the best starting bike
Was practicing the look where you are going and noticed that when you are on a blind turn you are tempted to not do this. But also it is this super clear message of discomfort. I need to look there. There is through some trees. I need to slow down. If you can't look far enough ahead for this to work it seems likely you are going too fast. Least it is the case for me. This hobby is interesting. All about riding a bike that could do a thing way faster at the right speed not at what it's capable speed is. Yeah there is basically no limit on my acceleration. What is the right amount for the conditions and my state?
The definition of rider must account for "continuity", so someone who holds a motorcycle licence for 20 years but has been active a year or two at a time with long periods of inactivity is not in the same class as someone with 5 years of continuous activity. Where I live I also hear about riders involved in crashes who were in the first category: they got their licence in the 70s or 80s without any training and 40 years later they decide to rekindle the passion by hitting (literally) the road.
Gotta say, I'm a pretty hard trail braking advocate for new riders. You evrn explicitly say why: if you don't know how a corner is going to play out, how much do you slow down? With slow/look/press/roll, *there's no way to know how much to slow, particularly if you're inexperienced*.
At least in my copious experience, the majority of corners if you've not ridden that road before you're not going to know how long the corner is, and as such you're asking a new, inexperienced rider to make a decision about what speed to enter a corner at without all the information.
"Just ride slower!" Is useless, too. How much slower? The problem remains, and it leaves new riders going slower and slower.
Meanwhile, the person trailing into the corner is already loading the forks. He continues trailing until the corner is "solved" and he's found the apex. If it turns out he's going too fast, he can gradually increase braking pressure to shed speed much more safely without disturbing the motorcycles' balance.
I strongly feel teaching new riders SLPR and treating trail braking as an advanced technique is doing them a major disservice.
I would include the number of miles traveled in your definition of a new rider. Someone who has been riding for 5 years, but only has 100 miles under their belt should probably count as a new rider.
...or too many years with 0 miles.
You mean bike night riders lol? I know some folks that only ride then for pageantry or a club. Never ride otherwise.
@@Dominolha74 same... ive met many that maybe log 5 miles a year on theirs.
@@rustyshackleford3281 😂
Stop picking on my HD riding friends!
Can always learn something watching your video's . But one years experience not all riders are equall, some have 150 + hours (1\2 hr per day)
, others have only 10 or 12 ( once per month)
*New rider, only been riding for like a week. No license YET. Was doing great this week until today I stopped at a stop sign. Was trying to turn left and turned way to wide and tried to avoid hitting the sidewalk so like an idiot I hit the front break while the wheel was turnt(I know, never do that, just panicked I guess) did it in front of some girls. Totally embarrassing lol. Can't believe I did that. Luckily I got the bike up my self and got it home but the way it fell it bent my fucking clutch shifter in so I can't adjust it. Put it in neutral like I wanted to. Luckily I drove Ir home in 1st gear... Still can't believe that happened* 😡😣😔
Where i live & ride, it’s country gravel that spills out & over onto a paved road= dangerous! Especially in the curves!
May 2021 starts my 3rd yr. I don’t could my casual dirt bike riding
I like the “point your nose” tip. Gonna remember that one!
I've now being watching Kevin for a few months, great staff, good work and certainly very helpful. However I believe that due care & anticipation as well as reading the road's condition is a must for safe riding.
Sadly some are not willing to practice & fail @ simple Drills that help improve skills greatly.
Vision is one of the most important skills at any speed (look near at Lo speed contributes to off balance stop, not looking far at mid/hi speed can lead to crash in a corner)
Funny thing you defined "new riders". I've seen plenty of examples of poor riding from those with many years of experience. Many prefer to duck-walk, can't make "proper" turns from a stop, and have issues doing u-turns on a normal road. :-)
I've been riding about 2.5 years and these slow turns are the toughest for me. Like coming up on an intersection where I turn left or right but not a stop sign, just roll up and 90 degree turn.
The most common reason I will go wide is I had not checked the road ahead closely enough. There will be a pothole, gravel , oil or whatever I had to work hard to train myself to look at the road surface too in a turn and to turn tighter vs wide.
Before we enter any corner, ie. turn for it. we obtain the correct entry speed? Two things first, we position ourselves on the road in a position to order to obtain the best and furthest possible view of the road or bend ahead. In order to ascertain the correct speed we look as far as we can and that would be to the vanishing or limit point. That is on any bend where both sides of the road meet and say to ourselves, can I stop in that amount of space between me and that point Its the tarmac that I can see ahead and be able to stop in on my side of the road.
So say for instance we determine that we able to stop at our speed now of 40 mph in a distance of some 120ft.. Then we look at and for that distance that we can see and if its about 120 ft. and we are keeping up with that vanishing point ie. its not coming towards us anymore and we are maintaining that safer distance from us to that point, then that is a correct and safe speed to take that corner i and follow keeping that distance between you If it gets closer then slow and if its moving away from you one might, just might be able to lift your speed a little.
If we can see say almost 200 ft then our speed of about 50 mph would be acceptable and maintainable .At speeds of some 60 mph we are looking for a distance around 250 ft. of sight which is along way.
In order to take such a safe reading of distance we must first be in the correct and safe position to be able to see as far down that road as is possible, so for a left hand turn in the USA we take up a position over towards the right hand kerb or verge but about 2 ft away from it to remove any possible dangers that may lie there. For a right hand bend we do the opposite and move over to the mid line but again some 2/3 ft away from it and potential dangers of say approaching traffic. Again we follow the curvature of the bend to pass the apex where we start to see the bend opening up.
From the start of the bend where we turn our front wheel in where we should add a little throttle, just enough to keep a steady and constant none acceleration or slowing speed throughout the bend and until after the apex is passed. What we do not do is accelerate throughout a bend at all.
as that could lead us to run off at a tangent and in a straight line.
Only after passing that apex behind us and with the bend straightening up we can lift the bike up into a more upright position and then, with just perhaps a little amount of lean left, say 10% or less we can commit to some degree of steady acceleration up to the speed we may wish to obtain on that road ahead. .
Great video as always I've learned so much from watching. Only have one suggestion regarding how to measure the experience of a new motorcycle rider. It seems like they are a lot of Weekend Warriors. For example I bought a used 2012 Fatboy with only 1200 miles from somebody with 7 years experience. I myself have only 3 years experience, but with 12000 + miles a year. Like to know your thoughts on time / mileage for experience. Thanks again for all the knowledge you share.
Best advice from my instructor: "No body crashes entering the corner too slow".
Not necessarily true, new riders brake and slow down but forget to downshift so they have power to the rear wheel.
@@bigjim383 why did they brake and slow down? I hope it’s not because they ride too slow.
I need advice Kevin, how to get confidence in high speed?
It seems that I'm stuck at 50kmh, while people drive around 70kmh.
Speed limit is 80 for highway. I feel like I'm the slowest guy.
Sorry, it's out of topic from your videos,
www.mcrider.com/tips-for-riding-a-motorcycle-at-highway-speeds/
Head out early Sunday (when there is little traffic), and just do it. Practice builds confidence.