This is 4 years or so old, but I just got my mill and still assembling it. I "Feel" that quarter sawn has its application like anything else. The key to that statement is... Is the desire of the product worth the added effort, in some cases, certainly so. We ran an old Frick circular growing up and don't think this method was ever brought up. Grandpa had a mill in the early 1900's not sure he applied this method(I wasn't there, and dad is not here to ask) I also applaud your efforts to this rabbit hole of the craft. thank you.
Nice job and one never knows unless you try!! I give you thumbs up for showing us all the steps you went through to do this and your honesty about the outcome!! Hope the channel grows!
I admire your effort and your honesty. Please hear my words. I strongly urge you to acquire and habitually use personal protective equipment. Eyes, hands, feet and lungs. You are a hard working young man who should live a long and healthy life.
I’m not sure I understand all of the harsh criticism given here. QS lumber traditionally has a good bit of waste, as he also had here. I didn’t see an extreme amount of waste though. He didnt continue to turn the logs like traditional methods, but thats the point of this video, to test the jig he made to try and reduce these steps. From what I saw the lumber milled was QS. There wasn’t a lot of yield, but he admitted this in the fact that he didn’t have a large enough log to get a lot of yield. From what I can see, I don’t understand the rationale behind all of the criticism here, someone please explain this to me. I think he did a nice job with the experiment. He admitted that the LT 10 may not be the right mil for this, but there could be some improvements. I realize this is an older video and he has a new saw but raising and leveling this platform to something around 18-24 inches as well as using a bigger log should help significantly. One suggestion might be to change the title of the video to something like a Quarter-saw experiment or something like that, I think too many guys are hung up on the “teaching the proper method” theme. I would not call this a failure, simply an experiment that needs some refinement. I like it, I think he did a nice job thinking outside the box here trying to be innovative. More than I can say for most folks on here. Thanks again for showing this and the courage to withstand the barrage of negativity seen here.
I like this! So refreshing to find someone doing it the correct way and producing good, minimal shrink, stable timber/lumber. Yes there is more waste but you are producing better quality boards and the waste is mostly firewood/sawdust. Better for you and your customers.
My opinion is that you and your mill crossed over the line to an art form. That grain was popping. Art will always be more difficult and I enjoyed watching your effort. Thank you for sharing. Things will become clearer for reaching your goals. Big thumbs up!!!!!
Now this is confusing. How many methods are there for quarter sawing lumber? Frank Miller seems to have another method which i thought was the only way to do quarter sawing
The learning curve, Right? Being creative is the secret of exploring out of the norm. It was definitely worth exploring. With the existing jigs you built one might consider sharper points for a more aggressive hold due to better penetration of the points. I agree with you, it is all attractive with the various grain and the time and waste incurred isn't, in my opinion, worth it. With my old LT40 I could clamp firewood size pieces of wood. I cut a lot of yew wood chunks this way and it was beautiful. Keep it up!
You need to align both ends, on the center of log. Some sort of jack? You will only get two boards of perfect quarter sawn out of each half of the tree so you need to figure out your cuts from the center line outwards. Hopefully you have taken your first two wide boards from the center of the log as quartered. Your next 4 boards will have come from the edges of the center cut on each log quarter. Prefect quarter! Now is when the more difficult cuts are to be made. You need to figure your cuts so that you get two boards out of each quarter that are separated by the blade thickness on the CL of the quarters. That gives you 8 more perfect quarter Bds. All the rest of the cuts will be rift. To get true quartered the saw blade must pass through the center of the tree, on both ends! By the way, white oak usually results in a better display of the quartered look. Sycamore displays nicely also.
You did great! got some beautiful stuff out of that log...sure, it's not 'real' quartersawn, but produced nice results. Some folks have said, 'that log's too small to mill' - but I think it's much too nice for stove wood. Thanks!
I agree with your view of REAL quarter-sawn lumber. The challenge with a bandsaw mill is the throat height above the blade, as (with the saw I'm considering) it will limit the maximum log to be quartered to about 14" in diameter. Perhaps one can increase this to about 20" in diameter by slicing off a 7" half-round, flipping it, then another 7" half-round, leaving a 6" middle slice that'll give you (4) 1" thick boards that are essentially quarter-sawn. Of course, that 6" middle slice will include the pith which can be remove when edging. I'm working on a jig to hold the quarters in the correct orientation to slice off 5-6 quarter-saw boards (although they will be fairly narrow in width after edging.
The way the old timers did it. When quality work was a the goal, not speed or low cost. I worry that too little of that knowledge is being passed on to our younger generation as shown by many if the comments here. Many times a failure on our part not theirs. This is not "modern" quartersawing, rather the traditional way. Not just better appearance but less chance of cupping. Quality not quantity still matters to some and they are willing to pay. Hat's off to you Sir!
Consider that timber having 2 sides side A, and side B. Take a slab from side A then rotate and take a slab from side B. back and forth. less waste that way.
It's less waste the way you recommend and the most you have to edge is one side. He'll have to edge both sides of every board. You do have to true up all four sides to get a stable base before using the "A side, B side" method but it's best by far.
Set your quarter pieces flat side down on your mill then take one or two cuts off the bottom, then rotate the other flat side and take two cut off the bottom and keep rotating til there is no good wood left. Cut some poor grade logs into heavy blocking to set your mill on to. Or weld some angle iron or beams. You need to raise it about 2 or 3 feet.
if you cut only one board near the middle, it will be really radial or rift sawn board, then you will have 2 narrower wedges, less than 1/8 of circle, that you can cut another radial ones from,
Good Job but.. There are a few ways to get QS from logs bit this one is really no different than through sawing a log from the top down. you get more QS material IF you saw the log into quarters right through the center... and yes... you need the biggest logs you can find. Then lay the 1/4 flat on the bed and come up to take off a board about 1-1/16" thick. Flip the 1/4 onto the other 1/4 face and do the same ... repeat over and over or, just leave a the wedge for larger leg stock like 3" or 4" for woodturning. Wish I could post a pic. Keep up the good work.
I quarter saw the same way as you, Dusty. Another handy benefit of doing it that way, I usually saw 2 quarter logs at a time. Also, every board has one live edge and one square edge.
THat's not the way you did it in this video. You only got 1 "Quartered Board per section albeit a tiny bit wider. There is another way that Woodmiser is promoting but it requires kicking the cant a few times. Regardless making boards is always fun.
Very nice results for a small log. And yes, quarter sawing a small log is almost as much work as a large log with far less to show for your efforts when it's all said and done. I sure understand you wanting to go back to plane sawing. Good luck and I really do enjoy your channel.
Fall Line Ridge anytime you happen to be in Oregon just stop by you are welcome to try it out on my ancient LT40. Trouble is, it's nearly 100 miles to the nearest native oak tree. Oak just doesn't grow on the East side of the state.
There's a fascination with quartersawing and as a miller/woodworker I see that. Trouble is, I have a really hard time consistently getting more money for a quartersawn versus a flatsawn board. I know that sounds kind of crazy but it's what I've experienced in 30 years of selling lumber in small lots. When I cut a log and just saw it in the most efficient manner (flatsawn) I'll get about 10%-20% of the lumber that will be quartersawn anyway. It's just how it comes out during the milling. So I sort out the quartersawn boards, stack them separately and mark them up about 20% more than the same flatsawn lumber from the same set of logs. And often I won't get a quartersawn buyer and I end up selling the quartersawn with no premium. My experience, anyway. Good luck to the other bandsaw millers out there, and try to retire with all your fingers still attached.
If you are going to sell it, it is a problem cutting it that way. If on the other hand you want to build a home with a spectacular wooden floor for only the sweat and tears it takes and a little gasoline, then it may be well worth the effort. My older cousin had a father in law that had a very large woodshop that produced mostly heavy plank solid oak church pews, some of great length. They were flat sawn. He also did some smaller jobs of finer woods high dollar cabinetry. He liked to collect rare woods. His home had each room finished in some kind of rare exotic wood from far away lands, except his living room, which was done in native black walnut. The floor was real 1/4 x 3/4 inch walnut glued up on edge and cut into parquet squares. I only saw one similar floor, in the Houston Museum of Fine Arts, and it was newly opened up and looked like a veneer but I need to go back and check it out, to see if it is still holding up. The point is if you can make up your own lumber you can produce a museum grade product in your own home. Where the man squeezing out a living on a commercial mill is more limited in the product that he has to produce.
Mark Nussbaum I appreciate the comment you posted it was very interesting and informative. I was wondering based upon your experience what the per board foot price difference is between flatsawn & quartersawn lumber in small lots, and what do you consider a small lot?
Quarter sawn white oak really POPS. Is it worth it to saw and put up with the waste? Probably not unless you sell to the odd furniture builder who wants it.
@@larrytischler8769 The artistry in wood is not revealed to all. I could see this on a floor in a Central Park brownstone or a tiny home on the Maine coast. Maybe hash tag vandweller pimp out your van?
This looks like the opposite of every quartersawn diagram I’ve ever seen. It looks like you quartered the log then treated it like plainsawed wood. Once the quarters are achieved, the log should be rotated with each pass between the two quartered sides, not sure what’s going on here. I understand that technically these are sawn into quarters, and that sometimes those quarters are too big to rotate, so cut it as you want but I think when you say “proper quartersaw” people expect that rotation and instead just saw quarters being sawn without the rotation.
Sorry to be replying a year after you commented, but I just happened upon this video today. Quartersawn vs plainsawn is about the orientation of the grains through the board. The fact that he is cutting the boards in this manner is irrelevant to the type of board he ends up with. If you want to get less overall waste from your log, you rotate each cut as you've described. The issue is, you end up with smaller rift sawn boards, and larger quarter sawn boards then. If you want to get the most QS out of a quarter, this is how you do it. You end up with more waste overall, but you end up with more grain oriented the way you're looking to have it. That's the tradeoff. And while I wouldn't say this is the best or proper way to do what he's doing, there's nothing wrong with it either and its certainly QS lumber that he's ending up with.
It is easier to 1/4 saw lumber on a Vertical mill. After you get the 1/4 Cants, you put one face down, cut the 90 deg. side, rotate the face, and cut the next one, and continue getting narrower boards. More work, yes. There are a few good videos of people doing 1/4 sawn on a Horizontal mill.
As i said you will have a few bugs starting out. Using a not so good logs for practice also good idea to perfect technique. Quarter sawing always produces more waste and is more work. I do agree your LT10 mill is a bit small to handle the size logs you need to get good size quarter sawn lumber. But on the other hand for lumber for personal use for say flooring, furniture and cabinetry. Your little LT 10 will save you thousands of dollars in what it would cost to buy quality quarter sawn wood. With a bit more practice trust me you will be absolutely amazed at what you can turn out on that little mill. Never give up on it but i wouldnt take on a project for others unless they were willing to pay a premium price for the sawing. Good job on the jigs they will be a big asset in the future.
I slab cut the log through the flat and most of the rift, and then separate the slab that bisects the pith and a few slabs on either side. Those slabs through the center portion are quarter sawn. Over several logs you'll stack up a good pile of quarter sawn without fighting to get them. If I am cutting for 2"x6" and 2"x4" boards, I'll cut (out of a 20" log) all slabs in one plane. The four boards in the center will give me eight quarter sawn boards...sometimes the fifth is so close to quarter (right at the border of rift sawn...30°-60°) that I'll stack them to the side for a stash. Then I put all other slabs, back on the mill (minus the quartered) and saw the boards I need. It's a little more work, but I have a small mill and very little waste. I might get one 2"x6" and two 2"×4" boards per slab and a few sticker cuts.
I know this is a silly question to ask but I'm really curious, how DO you cut a quarter sawn log and why is it desirable to cut them that way? Thank you. I love watching these videos!
Madeline Brownlee there are a couple of ways to do it. The method shown in this video and one I showed a few videos back. Quarter the logs and then position them to get boards that have grain running 80-90 degrees with the surface of the board.It is desirable because it produces lumber with a unique “fleck” appearance and also because it is more stable. Appreciate you watching.
Madeline Brownlee no if you find quarter sawn in a big box store, it's a mistake it should have been sold at the mill cause more labor to cut than flatsawn.
With those angled dogs you made those cuts with where more like wedge cuts, like how the Vikings would split up a log and than plain them down into boards using broad axes.
i would use a hinge on you brackets and have the bolt change the angle of the bracket it should provide a larger more stable area for the log to ride on. Like the video's makes me wish i was younger i would most likely try saw milling.
That's a great question. I figure a one hour job could potentially take 2-4 hours. Depending on how detailed I want the video to be. I think it's worth it.
@@falllineridge it is worth it i wouldnt change a thing. The videography you produce is very good the work you put into it really shows. You also do good showing the deyails with out getting into the weeds that is a plus.
A man of many talents!! I appreciate you sharing this! There is about a million board feet of lumber laying on the ground in South Georgia if you are ready to tackle that!!
You can still get quarter sawn with a touch less work. Set up your can't for plain sawn boards, but before you start in, die tify the quarter sawn region near the pith - above and below - and work back from there to where your first cut will be. The first cut may be an odd thickness. Once you have the plain sawn planks out, the 2 - 4 boards in the middle of the can't then go to the table saw and are ripped to remove the pith and / or center section where the board is not quaternary sawn. With some practice at identifying the cuts you can probably get some usable boards out of the pieces you will cut out of the center. This means that once you have the cant you don't have to move it. You get fewer quarter sawn out of your logs, but you still get some and you save a lot of work
... if you take it farther, and make your first cut at the top face of the the first of your "quartersawn blanks" then you can take that large flitch off and turn 90 degrees and repeat the process if you want more quartersawn out of the log with only a little more work... But given how much fun moving the logs and flitches is for you especially if you have a maximum sized cant / log, I would probably just go for plain sawing down to below the pith, and maybe flip that bottom half up on edge and work down to the 2-4 remaining quartersawn boards if I were looking to maximize quatersawn out of a log for least amount of work...means that you are going to sacrifices a couple of quatersawn boards from top half of the log / cant in favor of saving your back. I wish I had a couple of graphics for you. You also don't have the wedge shaped waste this way, you always have square edges on your planks.
bastard cut is just take a log and slab top to bottom. But you are correct that it needs to be rotate and he is kind bastard cutting his quarters though he will come out with some quarter. Besides cutting in the 4 pieces this dudes lost. I have never seen it done like this. I always like when people want to teach a class when they are still a student!!
@@jvmiller1995 I love wood and I love working with it which is how I got here and I don't know much about milling but it sounds like he got here by listening to the comments. If I wanted to know about quarter sawn lumber and how to produce it I would talk to a mill. Something like these guys. www.brownleelumber.com/our-lumber/true-quarter-sawn/
Yeah....what you are doing here is sorta like rift sawing...but the silly thing is that you can easily could have done quarter sawing with your mill. All you had to do was set the quarter on the bunks like usual and cut from the bottom....turn the log...and cut from the bottom again. THAT would be truly quarter sawn
What’s not right? That is a small log and he did just fine. I’ve sawn logs for decades with the benefit of much more industrial equipment. No need to talk him down.
Very rewarding to see you make this step. You are moving up in the sawyer world👍. As other comments mention, it produces more waste, but if the log is good, the 1/4 sawn boards are stronger and more beautiful. If you lived closer I would invite you over to use our commercial shop size planer on some of those beauties.
Fall Line Ridge Very cool. Your living the full circle of wood.. harvest, milling, and on to building with it. That must be so rewarding...Thanks for sharing the process.
Unless you get a ridiculous amount for your quarter sawn lumber that is sooo time consuming and the amount of material waste creating it simply is not worth that effort!
It strikes me that there could be another technique that would be easier for your mill to manage, and with some planning ahead, allow you to get the same result without quite so much waste. Now I've got so many bits of ideas scampering about in my head that they won't fall into any particular order. Ugh! Me, thinking on sawing logs with a largely machinist's point of view ... maybe I should just quietly step away ... :-) ... it's probably been tried before anyhow.
I've been running my WoodMizer full time for 24 years and saw lots of quarter-sawn white oak. This does not make me the world's authority on quarter-sawing, but I would call your method the TRADITIONAL method instead of the PROPER method. I've heard of a dozen proper methods or methods that will produce better quarter-sawn material. The fact is that the log is dead and doesn't care how you saw it. If you observe the rings and the rays and plan your sawing accordingly, saw it any way you prefer. Your PROPER method is just fine, especially if you have and edger, but every board that came off your saw now needs to be edged on both edges. I use something close to the WoodMizer method and every board comes off the saw needing no edging and takes very little more time. Give it a try.
yeah! that's a nice little mill . it is what is . and pushing any thing beyond its limits ends up with bad results . and when you plain saw you get a couple boards in the middle that will make quarter sawn boards if im not mistaken I think that's a black oak log looks a lot like red oak but always has a bunch of little knots in them. anyway happy sawing check out Mathew Cremona now that's a saw mill! :0)
Well, that was a good learning experiment but that's for special projects only. There's to much waste and time being lost for a workingman, ranch hand, and medical provider. I really enjoy your videos.
on a band saw mill, true quarter sawn wood is cutting the log into quarters and then position each quarter with bark side either left or right and then cutting the log into planks without moving the log. more desirable planks are rift cut - with rift, you cut the log like a pizza but with really thin slices. also, the log cannot remain stationary. on a band saw mill, it would be difficult to rift cut planks, but not impossible. rift cutting lobs produce unbelievable planks. take a look at this website...it is too difficult to explain rift cut with a few sentences. www.hardwooddistributors.org/blog/postings/what-is-the-difference-between-quarter-sawn-rift-sawn-and-plain-sawn-lumber/
"In rift sawn lumber the annual rings are typically between 30-60 degrees, with 45 degrees being optimum." Huh? What does this mean? It seems in the diagram of Rift Sawn, the object is to have the annual rings at 90 degrees to the surface of the boards. What is this 30-60 and 45 degrees?
Sorry, but your description is bass-ackwards! I don't know why everyone gets so hung up on having to quarter the log and then position the log at a 45° to the deck. Several others on here have described the easiest method which does involve more flipping, but is a lot more stable for cutting and you aren't wasting those wedges. The thing about the definition of quarter sawn lumber that is important is not HOW you saw it, but the angle of the annular growth rings with reference to the board face. Perfectly quartersawn boards will have the growth rings running straight through the board from top face to bottom face (90°). Since you will get very few of these perfect boards from a log, the definition of acceptance has opened up a tolerance of 30°of from that true vertical grain. Hence the "60-90°" definition. Your referenced link seems to be more confusing than clarifying to me.
YEAH I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT THERE'S A LOT OF LOSS OF TIME AND ENERGY AND I WAS WATCHING AS YOU WERE SAWING AND I THOUGHT IF YOU COULD ONLY TIP THE SAW ITSELF IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE TRACK OR TIP THE WHOLE TRACK AND RELATIONSHIP TO THE SAW BLADE DAVID GRENIS LIVING IN BOULDER COLORADO USA
great demonstration on the vid and the sawing. lots of constructive comments below.....ignore the ones that jus want to criticize. you are learning fast....jus want you to learn a litl better chainsaw techniques. in ur first vid u left about 2 feet of really good lumber. one on the stump and one where u pulled the heart. both are easily corrected. get some safety equipment including chainsaw chaps (wil save flesh n blood). experience makes the master.....jus want u to keep experiencing!!!!! if you are sawing for yourself you wil get more usable lumber by live sawing, and bout 25-30% wil be quartered for good variety. been there done that....i harvested, sawed, and air dried bout 8500bf of red or white oak to go into our house for paneling. i was always thrilled to see what nature revealed in a fresh cut!!! sidebar...tried many finishes and found minwax golden pecan topped with polycrylic gives the most natural fresh wet look. good day and happy sawing
odatmatt I’m not trying to be rude. But that’s not riff sawn it is indeed quarter sawn. Riff sawn is that the grain runs diagonal to the the edges of the board. So that all four sides look quarter sawn.
I started watching how to get a straight line painting. Ended up in a youtube worm hole here. Seeing these big trees on the ground and considering every house is made of wood makes me wonder if those who cut them down are planting enough and will we run out of wood? I mean those trees are about a hundred years old. I hope you planted more.
@@mikelliteras397 what does my comment have anything to do with reprobate CA. Let that place fall into the ocean along with everyone who lives there. Babylon!
I am a recent subscriber and I enjoy watching your videos even though I am not likely to even do it myself. If you can please do a side by side comparison of the quarter saw board compared to a normal plane board. Thanks.
Thanks for taking time to experiment and share your experience with us. Very generous of you.
Great Job thinking of a Jig for Quarter Sawing, Best Idea I've seen.
This was a great illustration as to why quarter sawn lumber is so expensive. Great vid and keep them coming!
Appreciate you watching!
This is 4 years or so old, but I just got my mill and still assembling it.
I "Feel" that quarter sawn has its application like anything else.
The key to that statement is... Is the desire of the product worth the added effort, in some cases, certainly so.
We ran an old Frick circular growing up and don't think this method was ever brought up.
Grandpa had a mill in the early 1900's not sure he applied this method(I wasn't there, and dad is not here to ask)
I also applaud your efforts to this rabbit hole of the craft. thank you.
Nice job and one never knows unless you try!! I give you thumbs up for showing us all the steps you went through to do this and your honesty about the outcome!! Hope the channel grows!
Appreciate you watching!
You're getting there. Good to see you seeking advice while experimenting for yourself. Keep at it.
I love watching your videos. Thanks
Subscribed. I like your energy and attitude.
Looks like some nice boards. You are lucky to have hardwood around there. Good stuff
We have plenty of hardwood here in India, especially East Indian Rosewood
I admire your effort and your honesty. Please hear my words. I strongly urge you to acquire and habitually use personal protective equipment. Eyes, hands, feet and lungs. You are a hard working young man who should live a long and healthy life.
I’m not sure I understand all of the harsh criticism given here. QS lumber traditionally has a good bit of waste, as he also had here. I didn’t see an extreme amount of waste though. He didnt continue to turn the logs like traditional methods, but thats the point of this video, to test the jig he made to try and reduce these steps. From what I saw the lumber milled was QS. There wasn’t a lot of yield, but he admitted this in the fact that he didn’t have a large enough log to get a lot of yield.
From what I can see, I don’t understand the rationale behind all of the criticism here, someone please explain this to me. I think he did a nice job with the experiment. He admitted that the LT 10 may not be the right mil for this, but there could be some improvements. I realize this is an older video and he has a new saw but raising and leveling this platform to something around 18-24 inches as well as using a bigger log should help significantly.
One suggestion might be to change the title of the video to something like a Quarter-saw experiment or something like that, I think too many guys are hung up on the “teaching the proper method” theme.
I would not call this a failure, simply an experiment that needs some refinement.
I like it, I think he did a nice job thinking outside the box here trying to be innovative. More than I can say for most folks on here. Thanks again for showing this and the courage to withstand the barrage of negativity seen here.
I like this! So refreshing to find someone doing it the correct way and producing good, minimal shrink, stable timber/lumber. Yes there is more waste but you are producing better quality boards and the waste is mostly firewood/sawdust. Better for you and your customers.
My opinion is that you and your mill crossed over the line to an art form. That grain was popping. Art will always be more difficult and I enjoyed watching your effort. Thank you for sharing. Things will become clearer for reaching your goals. Big thumbs up!!!!!
Appreciate the encouragement. Thanks for watching!
Now this is confusing. How many methods are there for quarter sawing lumber? Frank Miller seems to have another method which i thought was the only way to do quarter sawing
The learning curve, Right? Being creative is the secret of exploring out of the norm. It was definitely worth exploring. With the existing jigs you built one might consider sharper points for a more aggressive hold due to better penetration of the points. I agree with you, it is all attractive with the various grain and the time and waste incurred isn't, in my opinion, worth it. With my old LT40 I could clamp firewood size pieces of wood. I cut a lot of yew wood chunks this way and it was beautiful. Keep it up!
Great job 🎉
would it be a bad idea to stick a shim in the board, behind the blade? to take pressure off the blade. For example, at 2:49, is it worth doing?
You need to align both ends, on the center of log. Some sort of jack? You will only get two boards of perfect quarter sawn out of each half of the tree so you need to figure out your cuts from the center line outwards. Hopefully you have taken your first two wide boards from the center of the log as quartered. Your next 4 boards will have come from the edges of the center cut on each log quarter. Prefect quarter! Now is when the more difficult cuts are to be made. You need to figure your cuts so that you get two boards out of each quarter that are separated by the blade thickness on the CL of the quarters. That gives you 8 more perfect quarter Bds.
All the rest of the cuts will be rift. To get true quartered the saw blade must pass through the center of the tree, on both ends! By the way, white oak usually results in a better display of the quartered look. Sycamore displays nicely also.
You did great! got some beautiful stuff out of that log...sure, it's not 'real' quartersawn, but produced nice results. Some folks have said, 'that log's too small to mill' - but I think it's much too nice for stove wood. Thanks!
Love the way you show your wood!
Quartering these sized logs by wedges or may be easier than using a a chain saw. I took a quick shallow cut with a Skil saw to start.
Larry Tischler Now that’s a good idea on the skill saw. Thanks for the tip.
It works when the log is straight and fairly knot free. Otherwise the chainsaw is the tool.
I agree with your view of REAL quarter-sawn lumber. The challenge with a bandsaw mill is the throat height above the blade, as (with the saw I'm considering) it will limit the maximum log to be quartered to about 14" in diameter. Perhaps one can increase this to about 20" in diameter by slicing off a 7" half-round, flipping it, then another 7" half-round, leaving a 6" middle slice that'll give you (4) 1" thick boards that are essentially quarter-sawn. Of course, that 6" middle slice will include the pith which can be remove when edging. I'm working on a jig to hold the quarters in the correct orientation to slice off 5-6 quarter-saw boards (although they will be fairly narrow in width after edging.
The way the old timers did it. When quality work was a the goal, not speed or low cost. I worry that too little of that knowledge is being passed on to our younger generation as shown by many if the comments here. Many times a failure on our part not theirs.
This is not "modern" quartersawing, rather the traditional way. Not just better appearance but less chance of cupping. Quality not quantity still matters to some and they are willing to pay. Hat's off to you Sir!
Consider that timber having 2 sides side A, and side B. Take a slab from side A then rotate and take a slab from side B. back and forth. less waste that way.
It's less waste the way you recommend and the most you have to edge is one side. He'll have to edge both sides of every board. You do have to true up all four sides to get a stable base before using the "A side, B side" method but it's best by far.
This is the way the diagrams I have seen show it...smaller widths with each succeeding pass.
Solid try, good job
Set your quarter pieces flat side down on your mill then take one or two cuts off the bottom, then rotate the other flat side and take two cut off the bottom and keep rotating til there is no good wood left.
Cut some poor grade logs into heavy blocking to set your mill on to. Or weld some angle iron or beams. You need to raise it about 2 or 3 feet.
good job on showing us how quarter sawn lumber is produced.
I,m kinda of a dummy with cutting wood,but what's the gain in quarter sawn lumber?
That was awesome cuttin all that quarter sawed wood
You can get 3-4 quarter sawn boards out of any cant they will come out the center . you will then resale them in two to get the center out
i subbed because u are showing it as u learn and do it like most learn how to do it ,and thats a plus in my book ,.keep em comn ,newly subbed
Thanks! Appreciate the sub!
howdy, i was just wondering if you were planning to put a roof over your mill. that way if it were raining you could make lumber anyway?
Yes, eventually.
I like how you are unafraid to try things in public. cheers to ya, bud
pamtnman pamtnman I usually edit out the disasters. Appreciate you watching.
if you cut only one board near the middle, it will be really radial or rift sawn board, then you will have 2 narrower wedges, less than 1/8 of circle, that you can cut another radial ones from,
Nice jig, I have an LT35HD. Surprised that Woodmizer doesn’t make a jig for that
Great video. You should offer that homemade jig for sale I think you'd have luck selling them...
Good Job but.. There are a few ways to get QS from logs bit this one is really no different than through sawing a log from the top down.
you get more QS material IF you saw the log into quarters right through the center...
and yes... you need the biggest logs you can find.
Then lay the 1/4 flat on the bed and come up to take off a board about 1-1/16" thick.
Flip the 1/4 onto the other 1/4 face and do the same ... repeat over and over or, just leave a the wedge for larger leg stock like 3" or 4" for woodturning.
Wish I could post a pic.
Keep up the good work.
Dusty Splinters Thanks for the tip. Appreciate you watching!
I quarter saw the same way as you, Dusty. Another handy benefit of doing it that way, I usually saw 2 quarter logs at a time. Also, every board has one live edge and one square edge.
THat's not the way you did it in this video. You only got 1 "Quartered Board per section albeit a tiny bit wider.
There is another way that Woodmiser is promoting but it requires kicking the cant a few times.
Regardless making boards is always fun.
Dusty Splinters I think you have your replies mixed up. Mr. Gman49 says he saws like you. Not me.
I'm easily confused with these platforms.
Very nice results for a small log. And yes, quarter sawing a small log is almost as much work as a large log with far less to show for your efforts when it's all said and done. I sure understand you wanting to go back to plane sawing. Good luck and I really do enjoy your channel.
Appreciate you watching, Mr. Carson. It was a great learning experience. Maybe one day I'll try it on a larger mill and see what happens.
Fall Line Ridge anytime you happen to be in Oregon just stop by you are welcome to try it out on my ancient LT40. Trouble is, it's nearly 100 miles to the nearest native oak tree. Oak just doesn't grow on the East side of the state.
Appreciate it! Maybe I'll take you up on that one day.
Thanks for the video!
Thank you for actually quarter sawing correctly
There's a fascination with quartersawing and as a miller/woodworker I see that. Trouble is, I have a really hard time consistently getting more money for a quartersawn versus a flatsawn board. I know that sounds kind of crazy but it's what I've experienced in 30 years of selling lumber in small lots. When I cut a log and just saw it in the most efficient manner (flatsawn) I'll get about 10%-20% of the lumber that will be quartersawn anyway. It's just how it comes out during the milling. So I sort out the quartersawn boards, stack them separately and mark them up about 20% more than the same flatsawn lumber from the same set of logs. And often I won't get a quartersawn buyer and I end up selling the quartersawn with no premium. My experience, anyway. Good luck to the other bandsaw millers out there, and try to retire with all your fingers still attached.
Mark Nussbaum Good perspective. Thanks for the comment!
If you are going to sell it, it is a problem cutting it that way. If on the other hand you want to build a home with a spectacular wooden floor for only the sweat and tears it takes and a little gasoline, then it may be well worth the effort. My older cousin had a father in law that had a very large woodshop that produced mostly heavy plank solid oak church pews, some of great length. They were flat sawn. He also did some smaller jobs of finer woods high dollar cabinetry. He liked to collect rare woods. His home had each room finished in some kind of rare exotic wood from far away lands, except his living room, which was done in native black walnut. The floor was real 1/4 x 3/4 inch walnut glued up on edge and cut into parquet squares. I only saw one similar floor, in the Houston Museum of Fine Arts, and it was newly opened up and looked like a veneer but I need to go back and check it out, to see if it is still holding up. The point is if you can make up your own lumber you can produce a museum grade product in your own home. Where the man squeezing out a living on a commercial mill is more limited in the product that he has to produce.
Mark Nussbaum I appreciate the comment you posted it was very interesting and informative. I was wondering based upon your experience what the per board foot price difference is between flatsawn & quartersawn lumber in small lots, and what do you consider a small lot?
Quarter sawn white oak really POPS. Is it worth it to saw and put up with the waste? Probably not unless you sell to the odd furniture builder who wants it.
@@larrytischler8769 The artistry in wood is not revealed to all. I could see this on a floor in a Central Park brownstone or a tiny home on the Maine coast. Maybe hash tag vandweller pimp out your van?
Pretty clever rig. Thanks for figuring it out and then sharing that. Works good!
Your work is appreciated.
I like your idea.
This looks like the opposite of every quartersawn diagram I’ve ever seen.
It looks like you quartered the log then treated it like plainsawed wood.
Once the quarters are achieved, the log should be rotated with each pass between the two quartered sides, not sure what’s going on here. I understand that technically these are sawn into quarters, and that sometimes those quarters are too big to rotate, so cut it as you want but I think when you say “proper quartersaw” people expect that rotation and instead just saw quarters being sawn without the rotation.
Sorry to be replying a year after you commented, but I just happened upon this video today.
Quartersawn vs plainsawn is about the orientation of the grains through the board. The fact that he is cutting the boards in this manner is irrelevant to the type of board he ends up with. If you want to get less overall waste from your log, you rotate each cut as you've described. The issue is, you end up with smaller rift sawn boards, and larger quarter sawn boards then. If you want to get the most QS out of a quarter, this is how you do it. You end up with more waste overall, but you end up with more grain oriented the way you're looking to have it. That's the tradeoff. And while I wouldn't say this is the best or proper way to do what he's doing, there's nothing wrong with it either and its certainly QS lumber that he's ending up with.
It is easier to 1/4 saw lumber on a Vertical mill. After you get the 1/4 Cants, you put one face down, cut the 90 deg. side, rotate the face, and cut the next one, and continue getting narrower boards. More work, yes. There are a few good videos of people doing 1/4 sawn on a Horizontal mill.
And this isn't one of them 😢
@@tomnovak7731 mi
Great vid!
As i said you will have a few bugs starting out. Using a not so good logs for practice also good idea to perfect technique. Quarter sawing always produces more waste and is more work. I do agree your LT10 mill is a bit small to handle the size logs you need to get good size quarter sawn lumber. But on the other hand for lumber for personal use for say flooring, furniture and cabinetry. Your little LT 10 will save you thousands of dollars in what it would cost to buy quality quarter sawn wood. With a bit more practice trust me you will be absolutely amazed at what you can turn out on that little mill. Never give up on it but i wouldnt take on a project for others unless they were willing to pay a premium price for the sawing. Good job on the jigs they will be a big asset in the future.
Enjoyed watching. Thanks.
Thanks for stopping by!
I slab cut the log through the flat and most of the rift, and then separate the slab that bisects the pith and a few slabs on either side.
Those slabs through the center portion are quarter sawn. Over several logs you'll stack up a good pile of quarter sawn without fighting to get them.
If I am cutting for 2"x6" and 2"x4" boards, I'll cut (out of a 20" log) all slabs in one plane. The four boards in the center will give me eight quarter sawn boards...sometimes the fifth is so close to quarter (right at the border of rift sawn...30°-60°) that I'll stack them to the side for a stash.
Then I put all other slabs, back on the mill (minus the quartered) and saw the boards I need. It's a little more work, but I have a small mill and very little waste. I might get one 2"x6" and two 2"×4" boards per slab and a few sticker cuts.
Thanks ,I was trying to figured out which is the proper way, so that woods are not wasted.
Fall Line Ridge the wood slabs have beautiful grain looks like pellets grain in the wood wow pretty.Thanks bless you.
You should look into providing wood for acoustic, electric guitar bodies, also for guitar necks. You get some beautiful woods.
I know this is a silly question to ask but I'm really curious, how DO you cut a quarter sawn log and why is it desirable to cut them that way? Thank you. I love watching these videos!
Madeline Brownlee there are a couple of ways to do it. The method shown in this video and one I showed a few videos back. Quarter the logs and then position them to get boards that have grain running 80-90 degrees with the surface of the board.It is desirable because it produces lumber with a unique “fleck” appearance and also because it is more stable. Appreciate you watching.
Thank you. I envisioned a log cut in half and then half again. Lol. You know, the KISS method. Are quarter sawn boards found in the big box stores?
Madeline Brownlee no if you find quarter sawn in a big box store, it's a mistake it should have been sold at the mill cause more labor to cut than flatsawn.
Beautiful wood!
With those angled dogs you made those cuts with where more like wedge cuts, like how the Vikings would split up a log and than plain them down into boards using broad axes.
I think you need a brace close to your handle , it would take out a lot of the wobble, and help support the whole thing
i would use a hinge on you brackets and have the bolt change the angle of the bracket it should provide a larger more stable area for the log to ride on. Like the video's makes me wish i was younger i would most likely try saw milling.
I have a question. You move the camera meany times to make the video. How long does it take you make all the shots we see in the final video?
That's a great question. I figure a one hour job could potentially take 2-4 hours. Depending on how detailed I want the video to be. I think it's worth it.
@@falllineridge it is worth it i wouldnt change a thing. The videography you produce is very good the work you put into it really shows. You also do good showing the deyails with out getting into the weeds that is a plus.
Good idea. Wood looks awesome. That was a great effort.
I wonder if you realize now that you wasted a ton of wood doing it this way? Those diagonal edges cost you about an inch of good wood per board.
Great work, brother. Love seeing those logs turned into something beautiful.
It's pretty remarkable what's on the inside of a log.
just use butt logs 30" my saw is 3 ft. off the ground a back saver but i use a skidsteer for loading unloading
There are other ways to do quarter sawn. The larger the log the more difficulty we have in balancing a 1/4 on its edge. It's worth trying your method.
Lots of nice ray and fleck there.
For a minute I thought you had a good reason to go through all that. Lol. We know it's possible now.
cut the log into 3rds, then cut the center down the middle. now you have 4 pieces, put each piece on the mill so you are cutting 90° to the grain.
A man of many talents!! I appreciate you sharing this! There is about a million board feet of lumber laying on the ground in South Georgia if you are ready to tackle that!!
You can still get quarter sawn with a touch less work.
Set up your can't for plain sawn boards, but before you start in, die tify the quarter sawn region near the pith - above and below - and work back from there to where your first cut will be. The first cut may be an odd thickness.
Once you have the plain sawn planks out, the 2 - 4 boards in the middle of the can't then go to the table saw and are ripped to remove the pith and / or center section where the board is not quaternary sawn.
With some practice at identifying the cuts you can probably get some usable boards out of the pieces you will cut out of the center.
This means that once you have the cant you don't have to move it. You get fewer quarter sawn out of your logs, but you still get some and you save a lot of work
... if you take it farther, and make your first cut at the top face of the the first of your "quartersawn blanks" then you can take that large flitch off and turn 90 degrees and repeat the process if you want more quartersawn out of the log with only a little more work...
But given how much fun moving the logs and flitches is for you especially if you have a maximum sized cant / log, I would probably just go for plain sawing down to below the pith, and maybe flip that bottom half up on edge and work down to the 2-4 remaining quartersawn boards if I were looking to maximize quatersawn out of a log for least amount of work...means that you are going to sacrifices a couple of quatersawn boards from top half of the log / cant in favor of saving your back.
I wish I had a couple of graphics for you. You also don't have the wedge shaped waste this way, you always have square edges on your planks.
that way of quarter sawing is called bastard , true quarter is sawn turning the log. white oak and sycamore have better fleck's and ray's.
bastard cut is just take a log and slab top to bottom. But you are correct that it needs to be rotate and he is kind bastard cutting his quarters though he will come out with some quarter. Besides cutting in the 4 pieces this dudes lost. I have never seen it done like this. I always like when people want to teach a class when they are still a student!!
@BWM 1 Per every 200 sounds more like it
@@jvmiller1995 I love wood and I love working with it which is how I got here and I don't know much about milling but it sounds like he got here by listening to the comments. If I wanted to know about quarter sawn lumber and how to produce it I would talk to a mill.
Something like these guys. www.brownleelumber.com/our-lumber/true-quarter-sawn/
Wrong. This is some hybrid of quarter-, flat- and rift-sawn. I'll stick with the correct way.
Thanks Dude, another beauty.
Thanks for stopping by.
You built a contraption to straight cut quartered logs?? The proper way, eh?! Sure. To each their own. Hope all goes well for you and your endeavors
Yeah....what you are doing here is sorta like rift sawing...but the silly thing is that you can easily could have done quarter sawing with your mill. All you had to do was set the quarter on the bunks like usual and cut from the bottom....turn the log...and cut from the bottom again. THAT would be truly quarter sawn
you should really go to a real mill and ask kindly if they would show you, because this is not right sir.
What’s not right? That is a small log and he did just fine. I’ve sawn logs for decades with the benefit of much more industrial equipment. No need to talk him down.
Narrow boards hmmm... maybe use them to make bee hive supers?
Rails and stiles in cabinetry all day long.
These things aren't sawmills, they are hobby mills, first of all you can't make much production, but as far as quarter sawing he did it right
Very rewarding to see you make this step. You are moving up in the sawyer world👍. As other comments mention, it produces more waste, but if the log is good, the 1/4 sawn boards are stronger and more beautiful. If you lived closer I would invite you over to use our commercial shop size planer on some of those beauties.
Jennifer WhiteWolf Thanks for stopping by! I’m fortunate enough to have a planer myself. I’m sure that’ll bring out the grain even more.
Fall Line Ridge Very cool. Your living the full circle of wood.. harvest, milling, and on to building with it. That must be so rewarding...Thanks for sharing the process.
Good work, Quartersawn lumber demands a higher price! It's a lot of work, but it's worth it
Rift sawn is even more work and it has a huge amount of waste between the slabs.
I love watching your videos! Very impressive and good content
Thanks as always, Glenn!
Unless you get a ridiculous amount for your quarter sawn lumber that is sooo time consuming and the amount of material waste creating it simply is not worth that effort!
It strikes me that there could be another technique that would be easier for your mill to manage, and with some planning ahead, allow you to get the same result without quite so much waste. Now I've got so many bits of ideas scampering about in my head that they won't fall into any particular order. Ugh!
Me, thinking on sawing logs with a largely machinist's point of view ... maybe I should just quietly step away ... :-) ... it's probably been tried before anyhow.
I've been running my WoodMizer full time for 24 years and saw lots of quarter-sawn white oak. This does not make me the world's authority on quarter-sawing, but I would call your method the TRADITIONAL method instead of the PROPER method. I've heard of a dozen proper methods or methods that will produce better quarter-sawn material. The fact is that the log is dead and doesn't care how you saw it. If you observe the rings and the rays and plan your sawing accordingly, saw it any way you prefer. Your PROPER method is just fine, especially if you have and edger, but every board that came off your saw now needs to be edged on both edges. I use something close to the WoodMizer method and every board comes off the saw needing no edging and takes very little more time. Give it a try.
yeah! that's a nice little mill . it is what is . and pushing any thing beyond its limits ends up with bad results . and when you plain saw you get a couple boards in the middle that will make quarter sawn boards if im not mistaken I think that's a black oak log looks a lot like red oak but always has a bunch of little knots in them. anyway happy sawing check out Mathew Cremona now that's a saw mill! :0)
mikey Will do! Thanks for stopping by.
Well, that was a good learning experiment but that's for special projects only. There's to much waste and time being lost for a workingman, ranch hand, and medical provider. I really enjoy your videos.
You didn't even show the end grain pattern... The only part that matters with quarter sawn ..
The wood is unstable this way quarter sawn the grain lays horizontal
Man, you should get that mill up off the ground, or you'll be a broken-down old-man before you should be.
Thats cool
I want one of those saws
on a band saw mill, true quarter sawn wood is cutting the log into quarters and then position each quarter with bark side either left or right and then cutting the log into planks without moving the log. more desirable planks are rift cut - with rift, you cut the log like a pizza but with really thin slices. also, the log cannot remain stationary. on a band saw mill, it would be difficult to rift cut planks, but not impossible. rift cutting lobs produce unbelievable planks. take a look at this website...it is too difficult to explain rift cut with a few sentences. www.hardwooddistributors.org/blog/postings/what-is-the-difference-between-quarter-sawn-rift-sawn-and-plain-sawn-lumber/
"In rift sawn lumber the annual rings are typically between 30-60 degrees, with 45 degrees being optimum." Huh? What does this mean? It seems in the diagram of Rift Sawn, the object is to have the annual rings at 90 degrees to the surface of the boards. What is this 30-60 and 45 degrees?
Sorry, but your description is bass-ackwards!
I don't know why everyone gets so hung up on having to quarter the log and then position the log at a 45° to the deck.
Several others on here have described the easiest method which does involve more flipping, but is a lot more stable for cutting and you aren't wasting those wedges.
The thing about the definition of quarter sawn lumber that is important is not HOW you saw it, but the angle of the annular growth rings with reference to the board face. Perfectly quartersawn boards will have the growth rings running straight through the board from top face to bottom face (90°). Since you will get very few of these perfect boards from a log, the definition of acceptance has opened up a tolerance of 30°of from that true vertical grain. Hence the "60-90°" definition.
Your referenced link seems to be more confusing than clarifying to me.
YEAH I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT THERE'S A LOT OF LOSS OF TIME AND ENERGY AND I WAS WATCHING AS YOU WERE SAWING AND I THOUGHT IF YOU COULD ONLY TIP THE SAW ITSELF IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE TRACK OR TIP THE WHOLE TRACK AND RELATIONSHIP TO THE SAW BLADE
DAVID GRENIS LIVING IN BOULDER COLORADO USA
great demonstration on the vid and the sawing. lots of constructive comments below.....ignore the ones that jus want to criticize. you are learning fast....jus want you to learn a litl better chainsaw techniques. in ur first vid u left about 2 feet of really good lumber. one on the stump and one where u pulled the heart. both are easily corrected. get some safety equipment including chainsaw chaps (wil save flesh n blood). experience makes the master.....jus want u to keep experiencing!!!!! if you are sawing for yourself you wil get more usable lumber by live sawing, and bout 25-30% wil be quartered for good variety. been there done that....i harvested, sawed, and air dried bout 8500bf of red or white oak to go into our house for paneling. i was always thrilled to see what nature revealed in a fresh cut!!! sidebar...tried many finishes and found minwax golden pecan topped with polycrylic gives the most natural fresh wet look. good day and happy sawing
This is rift sawing. Any way you mill some of the wood will be quarter sawn. Cool jig though!!
That is riff sawn, not quarter sawn, nice try though.
odatmatt I’m not trying to be rude. But that’s not riff sawn it is indeed quarter sawn. Riff sawn is that the grain runs diagonal to the the edges of the board. So that all four sides look quarter sawn.
Rift, not riff fellas. Old sawyers may think it's "riff" but that's due to them usually being half deaf and not hearing the "T" on the end! LOL
odatmatt I agree that's rift sawn
This way of QS is a joke, lots of waste and way more time
Seems like you are wasting alot of that log tho, no?
The log was too small to begin with
I started watching how to get a straight line painting. Ended up in a youtube worm hole here. Seeing these big trees on the ground and considering every house is made of wood makes me wonder if those who cut them down are planting enough and will we run out of wood? I mean those trees are about a hundred years old. I hope you planted more.
J. Doe there’s always one of you. Of course California is full of you types, that’s why the fires there are so bad
@@mikelliteras397 what does my comment have anything to do with reprobate CA. Let that place fall into the ocean along with everyone who lives there. Babylon!
Nice job ,but my back hurts watching you ! take some of that milled wood and lift your saw bed off the ground
I am a recent subscriber and I enjoy watching your videos even though I am not likely to even do it myself. If you can please do a side by side comparison of the quarter saw board compared to a normal plane board. Thanks.
Rabid Fan Gaming Thank you for subscribing! And thanks for the video idea.