@@katobrucelee08 I like to just block the person. It feels like I'm taking action, but not the kind of action that involves ruining my day in a fight with a stranger. Haha!
@@katobrucelee08 you know you are maturing when you write a long paragraph, genuinely lose interest , getting a "what am i doing" moment and deleting all of it (never sending it in the first place).
Other things people do on the internet during arguments: - Dismiss everything entirely as senseless arguing because they have nothing to contribute but feel compelled to say something (eg ‘Kids these days, they argue about everything’) - Bring up a random potentially touchy subject about the other person to ‘win’ (eg talking about something else and getting hit with a random ‘Well, at least I don’t smoke weed all the time’) - My biggest pet peeve. Do nothing but solely post reactionary gifs and memes because they have nothing to say and the personality of a wet carrot
I would do you one better, on the third one. People posting this emoji: 😂. May that be the last time I use it. And then having it stand in, for a criticism of the argument. Example given: "Star Wars is inserting political propaganda in its movies that is itself a deception as some kind of distraction or suppression, from something else.? 😂"
I stumbled on this channel from there updates on AVGN and have come to really enjoy the content as a whole! I really like this video in particular, where you strive to bring logic back into the argument.
Breaking down and explaining different types of arguments is actually a topic I’m fascinated by, personally! I can’t wait until I get to use this type of information to identify different fallacies and pick apart the argument from that angle because I’m losing the argument I’m in and I want to feel superior anyways! 😂 Thanks for the upload, you scratched a really specific itch for me!
I seriously wanna thank you guys for making this video. You made me feel like I'm not crazy and not the only one that this would happen to. I've been gas lighted or however you wanna phase with all these examples especially in real life by even friends who were insecure or intimidated or something and it really held me back along time.
Although well intended, I think that these kinds of appeals to good will, will almost always fall in deaf ears. Because all those fallacies originate from the same emotional foundation: bad faith/ill intent/anger/unrestness. And that's rooted in deep issues withing that particular individual, some people even live with that their entire lives. So I think it's saner to simply acknowledge that as a reality and only interact with good faith arguments, that at least it's creating an incentive to be nice; your attention.
Probably broadly true, but still an interesting topic to try to identify and define trends, and maybe reach an individual or two. If the trend of bad faith argumentation is growing, and it clearly is, infinitely turning the other cheek from it isn’t going to counteract it in any way.
This clip and the Motte and Bailey argument reference especially now makes me wonder if the two of you read/have read Astral Codex Ten/Slate Star Codex?
When ever i get trolls trying to get under my skin i keep at them until they go away. Then i look for other comments they made to someone else and continue the one we started.
As a person who grew up outside Milwaukee when the whole Jeffrey Dahmer thing was going down, I can assure you there were many sides to the argument. The pro-Dahmer faction had their talking points and the anti-murder faction made some great points as well.
I love when people attack you for citing studies/ facts/ research you didn’t come up with. This denies the fact that almost all ideas and knowledge are received from external sources, and that even if you come to a conclusion on your own, it’s almost certain someone else has already come to the same conclusion. Just because your idea isn’t original doesn’t mean it isn’t valid.
Reddit is garbage liberal propaganda owned by China serving to weaken and disenfranchise an entire generation. Funny how well this was written about in the 1920s. Muh anxiety/depression/dysphoria
This is an excellent video. I actually own a couple of the "strategies of argument" textbooks that many first-year law students get assigned to read, and I made it through about the first third of one of them, but had to stop as it was so incredibly dry. I will say that what Frankie has covered here is pretty consisent with what I read. As someone who doesn't like debating people, I feel that everything he said is absolutely valid and great advice for anyone who puts out any sort of content on the Internet. Definitely worth it to watch the entire thing.
"Nobody's spending 13 hours playing a game and learning about team-building." Some folks didn't get roped into learning the Razorgore fight in old vanilla WoW and it shows.
On a Sunday morning, I love watching you guys with breakfast or my morning coffee. I’ll generally watch you guys during my lunch breaks when I’m working from home. You are my two favorite TV personalities. I doubt I’m the only one. I’m sure most of your fans are enjoying your podcast as a daily ritual. 😎
You guys are going to hit a tipping point soon where you will never be able to keep up with all your comments. Just promise you’ll remember little old trolling Tommy
Have you seen Frankie’s opinion regarding Tears of the Kingdom? 😂 I’m just joking, but that was one of the only times I disagreed with Frankie entirely
It’s actually even more unfair than that! I’ve never played it. I’ve seen reviews and I played Breath of the Wild for a few hours so I feel like I get it.
If the discussion comes from the mind's intellect, it's based in bad faith unless you trust the individual. If the discussion comes from the heart, and you know exactly what I'm talking about, it will be productive.
Gen Z guy here my generation has a huge problem with Cardboard opinions a lot of my peers just go along with whatever they're told is good or bad and don't ever think for themselves and it frustrates me to no end because whenever they talk about an opinion on something I get verbally castrated for daring to have my own opinion
It's funny I remember you guys using the "who cares" argument when you were talking about people complaining about gaming auctions artificially inflating prices.. you said something like "why does anyone care ... just buy an everdrive"
But the actual point of discussion there is, what’s the value in a physical collection when there are more sensible ways to play the game? It’s a legit question. It’s not trying to shut someone up.
I prefer the old ways of arguing. Now most of what I encounter is somebody saying you committed x fallacy therefore you are wrong, funnily enough engaging in argumentum ad logicam. So I tend to just blow people off who mention fallacies, like just call me an asshole and we can get on with our days.
The funny thing is no one ever says that in real life, and the people that do say that online constantly are the same people who, when confronted to defend their position in real life, just run away and say "I'm not engaging you"
10:25 I actually don't see this argument used to defend the prequels very often, in fact I always see an *astounding* number of people who are actually convinced you need to have a mature, sophisticated mind you appreciate those awful films.
@@joshtoten Seriously though take a look from now on. Its fascinating. For example there could be an entire post about the world being round and there is one person going "Y'all really think the Earth isn't flat 😂" Its almost as if they're padding their lack of argument with the laughing emoji. Not unlike people in real life going "RIGHT? RIGHT?" and awkwardly laughing. Not sure why there is always a y'all but that seems to be a reoccuring thing with those. Very odd.
@@M613M Honestly there's no sense paying attention to those types. At best, they are trolls or contrarions trying to get a rise out of someone. At worst, well... let's not go there.
The "it's for kids" is one of the worst arguments. People love to throw that to defend relatively low effort or production value to media franchises like Star Wars, Pokémon, any animation for theaters, etc...
This has to be top 3 best discussions in this channel ! Besides the hard Nintendo fanboy views on occasion , this team is really solid and I look forward to there content based on their approach / philosophy
Thanks! Regarding Nintendo fanboying, I’ll remind you I’m the guy always shitting on Breath of the Wild and Pokémon and all the uninteresting games on most Directs 🤣
@@RedCowArcade as a Sega / Sony preferred gamer and also to aid the point of “ debating / web arguing “ I will admit I loosely forgot that you will knock favorable point down on some Nintendo perspectives like breath of the wild and so on ! Totally let that slip that’s my bad. You know what it is , the top SNES videos on this channel would be vastly different compared to what I would recommend and yes I watched it and enjoyed it regardless. Goes back to the point also tho we are aloud to disagree and pick minds, im not going to pull any fast ones here to have my points be heard with this comment topic here lol 🪠
Attributing motive is my favourite. But I'm only saying that because I'm in denial about my own internalised misandry. P.S. Motte rhymes with thot. A moat is a different medieval defensive structure.
Should track the source of all this as it really does prevent people from having any type of discussion, but instead it just grooms people into robotic responses. I remember trying to open people's mind one time on a popular forum while trying to balance pressure from advertisers and making sure there was some criteria on a success thread (over 1,000 views I used at the time). It went better than expected, but you're always gonna have the robotic types as well as the ones thinking their participating by copying the robotic ones. You can easily push through layer 1 when people just mock the sources. So I made sure to mix sources that everyone would complain about. However, unlike the mainstream that uses negative emotions to sell ads, I made sure to push towards some type of same page on the information. Layer 2 are the personal attacks. Ironically the so called "trolls" or people who just like to have a laugh were the best supporters and that was before troll was used to shut down any divergence from mainstream narratives. The best part is when a mainstream narrative gets flipped and people act like that journalism and not at all propaganda.
This was a good video. Sorry these points needed to be said, but it was good to hear and honestly your guys comment sections are some of the most mature I have seen (Bimmy content aside). But I realize it is guaranteed you'll see all the bad comments that I miss. I don't really do this online, but in real life among friends, I do tend to lean into contrarianism to get more reaction, mostly when I hear an opinion that I think is unfounded. I turn into a Gremlin and start going for the "what about" arguments instead of getting too real or deep into the ideology. I do this even if I don't like the media being scrutinized, I'll just defend a point that I don't think is being fairly examined, and do it in kind of a mischievous way to get those friends to work themselves into a corner on that point. I know this isn't good and is very frustrating, and I can admit I'm not a good debater because of this, it's just harmless fun to me. That might classify as strawmanning I guess. I think I'm good at backing off if I actually make someone mad though.
I don’t really care for the phrase “losing/winning an argument”. I think that is why people get so heated in this crap. An argument isn’t necessarily a debate. “Fruitful discussions” is great. You’re not going to win an argument. People that have been in relationships know this. You express your POV the best you can, and hopefully, the other person can see your side of things. Like, okay, I see where you’re coming from even if I don’t agree.
But if I don't spend 12 hours a day playing video games, how am I ever going to gain the skills to be a professional e-gamer? Which by the way, is just as valid as someone playing actual sports
When someone voraciously supports something but can’t explain or articulate any reasons why they support it, they are a simp though 😂 Simp can be an appropriate term, interchangeable with sycophant.
For sure, I think I said a few times that all of these rhetorical statements can be fitting. But to take the simping example, it’s become all too common for someone to argue that if someone feels a certain way, it must be illegitimate.
The Red Cow Truth, coming to a subreddit near you. Featuring such hits as: Junt bought a thing he already bought a few years ago but lost in his infinite pile of things! Frankie didn't do a thing he hypothetically joked about doing 200 videos ago! EJ forgot that one hot sauce! Why aren't there more Texas themed box macs!? /sarcasm
Recently, Frankie said he wasn't a fan of most of the third season of the Madalorian. I disagree with him and think it was a solid season that did some interesting world building episodes. That can be a bit boring when it doesn't serve the plot much and can be uninteresting to some people. I don't hate Frankie for that opinion I want a different opinion frok my own that's the whole reason I watch the channel if both EJ and Frankie just agreed with everything and everyone then the whole channel would be entirely pointless.
My favorite one online is when people use the term slippery slope as their argument for why something is bad. It’s hilarious because slippery slope is the name of the logical fallacy, so they’re accidentally saying that their own argument has no merit.
Wait… y’all don’t think Barbie was hardcore propaganda, do you? Maybe I misunderstood that whole “propaganda” and “art” comment. Or maybe I associate the term with more nefarious leanings… the worst I can see it being is toy propaganda. It is political, but I didn’t think it was some wild, crazy political take. It was created by a woman and it’s her stance/opinion, which I’m assuming was influenced by her life or the lives of people around her. And it was cut with a large amount of humor. I refuse to believe that two intelligent dudes can’t be a little empathetic toward the plight of women. By saying this, I’m not painting them as permavictims, but, come on. Fair dues? I enjoyed Barbie. Some of it was heavy-handed/preachy, but overall, I had a blast watching it. It didn’t change my mind on anything. It was a funny, sweet, silly take on the status quo. I mean, come on, one of Ken’s main campaign platforms is horses. Some of y’all take this way too seriously! Good video though.
I (Frankie) didn’t see the movie, but the heavy handed preachiness you’re referring to is what appeared to be political in nature to me. I would’ve preferred a movie for my 6 year old daughter.
@@RedCowEntertainment I just get tired of everyone saying everything is preachy. Sort of like how the word “woke” is meaningless because everyone uses it for everything with a woman or person of color in it. There are layers to the preachiness in Barbie. We took our two girls to see it, but we are a pretty liberal house. I think a lot of the “heavier” concepts will just float over younger kids’ heads, just like it did with us when we were younger. My younger daughter didn’t dislike it or anything. Probably tons of eye candy for her. The sets were great. Toys come to life. It did a good job encapsulating what a kid playing with Barbies would do if they controlled this fantasy world. Even some of the “political” stuff comes across in a pretty funny, immature way. The way a kid might see it. There is one speech that is heavy-handed but it’s not offensive or anything. It’s definitely for slightly older kids and adults, but not an “adult” movie in any way. It’s too silly for that label. But it was worth watching for me just for the spectacle. I was thinking it might win an award in some visual category but then remembered Oppenheimer blew up an actual bomb 😆
I am confused as why Barbie being political is bad, or why it “fears into propaganda” It is undoubtedly a more political movie than most (I do subscribe to the idea that all art is political), but calling it an “end to end political movie” without having seen it is odd.
Fair enough. I base this on what I hear. I heard the term “patriarchy” alone was used like 18 times. That seems pretty politically stacked. Also EJ said “veers into,” not “fears into.”
Oh as for why it’s bad - it’s a movie about a toy brand for little girls. I prefer it be for 6 year olds and not for College-aged and older activists, with masturbation jokes and concerns about cellulite and death and the message that if left to their devices, men would automatically subjugate women. As for “all art is political,” I think that’s too abstract a statement to really mean anything. A movie like Barbie is fairly overt in its politics from what I understand, and a movie like Mario, I would say, has no discernible politics at all.
@@RedCowArcade I think my main contention is simply calling a movie “political” as a means as not to watch it. It is a hugely nebulous term that means different things to different people. Not a 1:1 comparison but it’s like saying I’m not watching a movie because it has “symbolism”.
@agking50 I disagree, current-day pop politics aren’t (or don’t have to be) some ubiquitous thing in all movies. Least of all in children’s brands. But I never said I won’t see it because it’s political. I watched the shit out of Dahmer and that was hyper political. All I’m saying in this video is that it’s ridiculous to deny that the movie is political. I think that denial is a tactic to make the movie’s politics seem neutral or unobjectionable.
@@RedCowArcade While I do disagree with several of your points, I don’t think I would want this discussion via RUclips comments haha I would say that I agree saying that Barbie is not political is silly
The only way to truly win an argument online is to simply not have an argument.
I just type everything out and then delete it. Its the best way to get it out my system
@@katobrucelee08 I like to just block the person. It feels like I'm taking action, but not the kind of action that involves ruining my day in a fight with a stranger. Haha!
Or turn off the comments section.
Its why I turned off notifications for responses awhile back.
@@katobrucelee08 you know you are maturing when you write a long paragraph, genuinely lose interest , getting a "what am i doing" moment and deleting all of it (never sending it in the first place).
"You can't critique a game, you didn't finish it!" - from 2010
Your guy's persistent badgering (good thing) has helped me to quit smoking weed. Thanks.
First one to get mad online loses
Hey! Hey! Shut up, you're WRONG 😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡😡
The last thing you wanna be is Mad at the Internet!
The only thing that makes all those types of comments worse is when they punctuate it with the shrug emoji.
Oh yes.
"Yeah, well, that's just like, your opinion, man."
-Dudericus
Other things people do on the internet during arguments:
- Dismiss everything entirely as senseless arguing because they have nothing to contribute but feel compelled to say something (eg ‘Kids these days, they argue about everything’)
- Bring up a random potentially touchy subject about the other person to ‘win’ (eg talking about something else and getting hit with a random ‘Well, at least I don’t smoke weed all the time’)
- My biggest pet peeve. Do nothing but solely post reactionary gifs and memes because they have nothing to say and the personality of a wet carrot
Pretend this comment is a gif of Daffy Duck holding up a finger, then giving up and walking away.
@@joshtotenI'm going to pretend that it's a different finger than you obviously intended
@@holdingpattern245 That's despicable!
I would do you one better, on the third one. People posting this emoji: 😂. May that be the last time I use it. And then having it stand in, for a criticism of the argument.
Example given: "Star Wars is inserting political propaganda in its movies that is itself a deception as some kind of distraction or suppression, from something else.? 😂"
Millennials were so good at arguing on the internet, but this damn gen z figured out all they have to do is post "cope" and run away giggling.
“Millennials were so good” no they were not 😂this coming from a millennial
I stumbled on this channel from there updates on AVGN and have come to really enjoy the content as a whole! I really like this video in particular, where you strive to bring logic back into the argument.
The kinds of people who say Barbie isn't political are the same ones who have conniption fits towards anyone who doesn't share their politics.
Right, it’s a tactic to make their personal politics seem like neutral common sense.
As long as I say someone used an (insert) fallacy, I always win my e-arguments.
Haha, I should’ve mentioned, also don’t do that 🤣
Breaking down and explaining different types of arguments is actually a topic I’m fascinated by, personally! I can’t wait until I get to use this type of information to identify different fallacies and pick apart the argument from that angle because I’m losing the argument I’m in and I want to feel superior anyways! 😂 Thanks for the upload, you scratched a really specific itch for me!
You can’t reason with the internet, but I did enjoy watching you try 😂
I seriously wanna thank you guys for making this video. You made me feel like I'm not crazy and not the only one that this would happen to. I've been gas lighted or however you wanna phase with all these examples especially in real life by even friends who were insecure or intimidated or something and it really held me back along time.
Frankie seriously addressing "L take" has me deceased 😂😂. Of course i totally agree but it really doesn't deserve a serious debunk.
You don’t think calling things “bad takes” is a widespread and troublesome rhetorical tactic?
@@RedCowArcade oh no it totally is. I just assume people who are dumb enough to say that are beyond saving. But I respect it lol
Never be afraid to express your opinion or thoughts. If someone's offended, leave.
Although well intended, I think that these kinds of appeals to good will, will almost always fall in deaf ears. Because all those fallacies originate from the same emotional foundation: bad faith/ill intent/anger/unrestness.
And that's rooted in deep issues withing that particular individual, some people even live with that their entire lives. So I think it's saner to simply acknowledge that as a reality and only interact with good faith arguments, that at least it's creating an incentive to be nice; your attention.
Probably broadly true, but still an interesting topic to try to identify and define trends, and maybe reach an individual or two. If the trend of bad faith argumentation is growing, and it clearly is, infinitely turning the other cheek from it isn’t going to counteract it in any way.
Great video! You guys are one of my favorite channels because you make any topic interesting.
Thinking you've won the argument just because you pointed out a fallacy is called fallacy-simp fallacy.
Hahahaha
This clip and the Motte and Bailey argument reference especially now makes me wonder if the two of you read/have read Astral Codex Ten/Slate Star Codex?
Rewatching this great video right now because of specific reasons...
ALSO: That draw of EJ's laugh face at 6:21 is truly absolutely perfect! HAHA!
When ever i get trolls trying to get under my skin i keep at them until they go away. Then i look for other comments they made to someone else and continue the one we started.
Imagine if everyone in the World who responded to an argument criticized the points and didn't just say something mean? That would be a good, world.
Oooo the parroting one is the worst. It's not for you is the Brie Larson of conversation.
Just watched a 9 year old video about this same topic, and I was sent here. It was discussed over Quake 2 footage.
Fellatio fallacies are muh favorite.
As a person who grew up outside Milwaukee when the whole Jeffrey Dahmer thing was going down, I can assure you there were many sides to the argument. The pro-Dahmer faction had their talking points and the anti-murder faction made some great points as well.
I love when people attack you for citing studies/ facts/ research you didn’t come up with. This denies the fact that almost all ideas and knowledge are received from external sources, and that even if you come to a conclusion on your own, it’s almost certain someone else has already come to the same conclusion.
Just because your idea isn’t original doesn’t mean it isn’t valid.
The average Redditor exemplifies Dunning-Kruger, which should also be noted!
Yep, I could talk a while about that one!
Reddit is garbage liberal propaganda owned by China serving to weaken and disenfranchise an entire generation. Funny how well this was written about in the 1920s. Muh anxiety/depression/dysphoria
This is an excellent video. I actually own a couple of the "strategies of argument" textbooks that many first-year law students get assigned to read, and I made it through about the first third of one of them, but had to stop as it was so incredibly dry. I will say that what Frankie has covered here is pretty consisent with what I read. As someone who doesn't like debating people, I feel that everything he said is absolutely valid and great advice for anyone who puts out any sort of content on the Internet. Definitely worth it to watch the entire thing.
Ah ,the Eternal September. Timely.😜
This video has been heard, understood, and considered in this response.
"Nobody's spending 13 hours playing a game and learning about team-building."
Some folks didn't get roped into learning the Razorgore fight in old vanilla WoW and it shows.
Aw man. Interchangeable caps are my love language.
I argued with a rex viper fan, it wasn't very pleasant
were you arguing with the singer's mom
Muh Logical Fallacies. I can see why they're popular!
lol... I wonder if it was me who said I don't like the "I don't wanna yuck your yum" expression.
Because I don't like that expression.
On a Sunday morning, I love watching you guys with breakfast or my morning coffee. I’ll generally watch you guys during my lunch breaks when I’m working from home. You are my two favorite TV personalities. I doubt I’m the only one. I’m sure most of your fans are enjoying your podcast as a daily ritual. 😎
You guys are going to hit a tipping point soon where you will never be able to keep up with all your comments. Just promise you’ll remember little old trolling Tommy
During this video I came to realize, I don't think I've ever disagreed with anything you have said. I love you guys! great content as usual...
I have and I hate them for it (; nah these guys are great, discovered recently and like the level headed discussions
Have you seen Frankie’s opinion regarding Tears of the Kingdom? 😂 I’m just joking, but that was one of the only times I disagreed with Frankie entirely
@reiddutchess9955 must have missed that one lol enlighten me? 😂
@@markwildes553 he mentions it in several videos, he really dislikes it
It’s actually even more unfair than that! I’ve never played it. I’ve seen reviews and I played Breath of the Wild for a few hours so I feel like I get it.
If the discussion comes from the mind's intellect, it's based in bad faith unless you trust the individual.
If the discussion comes from the heart, and you know exactly what I'm talking about, it will be productive.
Gen Z guy here my generation has a huge problem with Cardboard opinions a lot of my peers just go along with whatever they're told is good or bad and don't ever think for themselves and it frustrates me to no end because whenever they talk about an opinion on something I get verbally castrated for daring to have my own opinion
I really do love this channel so so much!
Me too. Frankie's impressions are the cherry on top!
Likewise! These are my go-to guys. I love that they drop content almost daily. Perfect podcast during my lunch hour!
It's funny I remember you guys using the "who cares" argument when you were talking about people complaining about gaming auctions artificially inflating prices.. you said something like "why does anyone care ... just buy an everdrive"
But the actual point of discussion there is, what’s the value in a physical collection when there are more sensible ways to play the game? It’s a legit question. It’s not trying to shut someone up.
Yes. Yes, you're right about these things. Good points.
People want to win with the least amount of effort put in.
People are devoid of real meaning in their lives so they'll champion anything to use as a battering ram to fill them with some worth.
People that shout “logical fallacy” in person make me giggle
Yes, that would be very over the top. No better than the fallacies themselves.
I prefer the old ways of arguing. Now most of what I encounter is somebody saying you committed x fallacy therefore you are wrong, funnily enough engaging in argumentum ad logicam. So I tend to just blow people off who mention fallacies, like just call me an asshole and we can get on with our days.
Well, surely you don’t think I’m doing that here.
@@RedCowArcade No, yours is an intellectual dissemination of the matter. I'm just making a side note.
Yeah screaming “fallacy!” at every turn is just as fallacious really.
The funny thing is no one ever says that in real life, and the people that do say that online constantly are the same people who, when confronted to defend their position in real life, just run away and say "I'm not engaging you"
Believe it or not, I’ve never used a logical fallacy. I can see why they’re popular!
To be fair, saying “yuck your yum” should immediately invalidate anything you have to say after that
The Barbie movie is HYPER political.
I guess some people think it needs to be a serious movie to be properly political???
No true Juntsman fallacy
You disagree with me about something trivial? You've just made an enemy for life.
10:25 I actually don't see this argument used to defend the prequels very often, in fact I always see an *astounding* number of people who are actually convinced you need to have a mature, sophisticated mind you appreciate those awful films.
I get fed the “it’s for kids” thing constantly.
ruclips.net/user/shortsKIUuVEMRi7c?si=wl4VBDE3Y5a7MRqd
"Is it though?"
As a natural fact of life, I have less time now than I did in my 20s... But take a wild guess why!
Sometimes someone is going to disagree with you and not want to play rules-lawyer about it. Accept the feedback and move on, or don't lol.
If someone uses "Ya'll" and a "😂" emoji in an argument they've already lost
Just to be that guy... y'all*
@@joshtoten Seriously though take a look from now on. Its fascinating. For example there could be an entire post about the world being round and there is one person going "Y'all really think the Earth isn't flat 😂" Its almost as if they're padding their lack of argument with the laughing emoji. Not unlike people in real life going "RIGHT? RIGHT?" and awkwardly laughing. Not sure why there is always a y'all but that seems to be a reoccuring thing with those. Very odd.
@@M613M Honestly there's no sense paying attention to those types. At best, they are trolls or contrarions trying to get a rise out of someone. At worst, well... let's not go there.
"folx..."
The "it's for kids" is one of the worst arguments. People love to throw that to defend relatively low effort or production value to media franchises like Star Wars, Pokémon, any animation for theaters, etc...
Cept….Pokémon is a kids franchise 😂 no I don’t care how many grown ups fanboy over it,end of the day it’s a kids franchise
@@brandonspencer5594 My point isn't that Pokemon isn't for kids, but the idea that content for kids doesn't need standards.
This has to be top 3 best discussions in this channel ! Besides the hard Nintendo fanboy views on occasion , this team is really solid and I look forward to there content based on their approach / philosophy
Thanks! Regarding Nintendo fanboying, I’ll remind you I’m the guy always shitting on Breath of the Wild and Pokémon and all the uninteresting games on most Directs 🤣
@@RedCowArcade as a Sega / Sony preferred gamer and also to aid the point of “ debating / web arguing “ I will admit I loosely forgot that you will knock favorable point down on some Nintendo perspectives like breath of the wild and so on ! Totally let that slip that’s my bad. You know what it is , the top SNES videos on this channel would be vastly different compared to what I would recommend and yes I watched it and enjoyed it regardless. Goes back to the point also tho we are aloud to disagree and pick minds, im not going to pull any fast ones here to have my points be heard with this comment topic here lol 🪠
@@preamstrikbiz0 For sure. I was a Sega guy myself, hence the big Sega video we did!
@@RedCowArcade gotta watch that now ! Ty! Love the channel regardless
I love the new L takes podcast! Keep up the L takes guys lol
Attributing motive is my favourite. But I'm only saying that because I'm in denial about my own internalised misandry.
P.S. Motte rhymes with thot. A moat is a different medieval defensive structure.
I don’t think you guys have had any explosive hot takes worth getting upset about.
What episode is this from?
97
Should track the source of all this as it really does prevent people from having any type of discussion, but instead it just grooms people into robotic responses. I remember trying to open people's mind one time on a popular forum while trying to balance pressure from advertisers and making sure there was some criteria on a success thread (over 1,000 views I used at the time). It went better than expected, but you're always gonna have the robotic types as well as the ones thinking their participating by copying the robotic ones. You can easily push through layer 1 when people just mock the sources. So I made sure to mix sources that everyone would complain about. However, unlike the mainstream that uses negative emotions to sell ads, I made sure to push towards some type of same page on the information. Layer 2 are the personal attacks. Ironically the so called "trolls" or people who just like to have a laugh were the best supporters and that was before troll was used to shut down any divergence from mainstream narratives. The best part is when a mainstream narrative gets flipped and people act like that journalism and not at all propaganda.
Arguments of the assholish variety? Lol
You guys should watch the one piece live action show, I think you ll dig it
This was a good video. Sorry these points needed to be said, but it was good to hear and honestly your guys comment sections are some of the most mature I have seen (Bimmy content aside). But I realize it is guaranteed you'll see all the bad comments that I miss.
I don't really do this online, but in real life among friends, I do tend to lean into contrarianism to get more reaction, mostly when I hear an opinion that I think is unfounded. I turn into a Gremlin and start going for the "what about" arguments instead of getting too real or deep into the ideology. I do this even if I don't like the media being scrutinized, I'll just defend a point that I don't think is being fairly examined, and do it in kind of a mischievous way to get those friends to work themselves into a corner on that point. I know this isn't good and is very frustrating, and I can admit I'm not a good debater because of this, it's just harmless fun to me. That might classify as strawmanning I guess. I think I'm good at backing off if I actually make someone mad though.
I agree our comment sections are pretty decent. Some of what I’m observing is on the TCT Reddit, specifically posts about us.
Isn’t internet a place to use the term straw man a lot?lol
I don’t really care for the phrase “losing/winning an argument”.
I think that is why people get so heated in this crap.
An argument isn’t necessarily a debate.
“Fruitful discussions” is great. You’re not going to win an argument. People that have been in relationships know this. You express your POV the best you can, and hopefully, the other person can see your side of things. Like, okay, I see where you’re coming from even if I don’t agree.
But if I don't spend 12 hours a day playing video games, how am I ever going to gain the skills to be a professional e-gamer? Which by the way, is just as valid as someone playing actual sports
When someone voraciously supports something but can’t explain or articulate any reasons why they support it, they are a simp though 😂 Simp can be an appropriate term, interchangeable with sycophant.
For sure, I think I said a few times that all of these rhetorical statements can be fitting. But to take the simping example, it’s become all too common for someone to argue that if someone feels a certain way, it must be illegitimate.
@@RedCowArcade no doubt, I agree with you, I just think it’s funny when people accuse others of being simps when it’s fitting for the circumstance
Release the Frankie cut of the AVGN movie
Hey! Don't go changing 😊 mamma told me to be A simple man.
Imagine someone made a channel critiquing this channel how this channel does other channels lmao.
The Red Cow Truth, coming to a subreddit near you. Featuring such hits as:
Junt bought a thing he already bought a few years ago but lost in his infinite pile of things!
Frankie didn't do a thing he hypothetically joked about doing 200 videos ago!
EJ forgot that one hot sauce!
Why aren't there more Texas themed box macs!?
/sarcasm
Recently, Frankie said he wasn't a fan of most of the third season of the Madalorian. I disagree with him and think it was a solid season that did some interesting world building episodes. That can be a bit boring when it doesn't serve the plot much and can be uninteresting to some people. I don't hate Frankie for that opinion I want a different opinion frok my own that's the whole reason I watch the channel if both EJ and Frankie just agreed with everything and everyone then the whole channel would be entirely pointless.
My favorite one online is when people use the term slippery slope as their argument for why something is bad. It’s hilarious because slippery slope is the name of the logical fallacy, so they’re accidentally saying that their own argument has no merit.
Also, terrific channel!
Love these clips ❤
Something tells me they don't like the devils lettuce. Just don't be pro drug war and we good
And have the same energy for alcohol
I’m very very against alcohol. - Frankie
Amen ❤
it does make me nervous that you guys love jontron and are pointing out barbie as being "too political"
So, are you saying Barbie is political?
I wouldn’t dare.
Is the Pope Catholic?
Wait… y’all don’t think Barbie was hardcore propaganda, do you? Maybe I misunderstood that whole “propaganda” and “art” comment. Or maybe I associate the term with more nefarious leanings… the worst I can see it being is toy propaganda.
It is political, but I didn’t think it was some wild, crazy political take. It was created by a woman and it’s her stance/opinion, which I’m assuming was influenced by her life or the lives of people around her. And it was cut with a large amount of humor. I refuse to believe that two intelligent dudes can’t be a little empathetic toward the plight of women. By saying this, I’m not painting them as permavictims, but, come on. Fair dues?
I enjoyed Barbie. Some of it was heavy-handed/preachy, but overall, I had a blast watching it. It didn’t change my mind on anything. It was a funny, sweet, silly take on the status quo.
I mean, come on, one of Ken’s main campaign platforms is horses.
Some of y’all take this way too seriously!
Good video though.
I (Frankie) didn’t see the movie, but the heavy handed preachiness you’re referring to is what appeared to be political in nature to me. I would’ve preferred a movie for my 6 year old daughter.
@@RedCowEntertainment I just get tired of everyone saying everything is preachy. Sort of like how the word “woke” is meaningless because everyone uses it for everything with a woman or person of color in it.
There are layers to the preachiness in Barbie.
We took our two girls to see it, but we are a pretty liberal house. I think a lot of the “heavier” concepts will just float over younger kids’ heads, just like it did with us when we were younger.
My younger daughter didn’t dislike it or anything. Probably tons of eye candy for her. The sets were great. Toys come to life. It did a good job encapsulating what a kid playing with Barbies would do if they controlled this fantasy world.
Even some of the “political” stuff comes across in a pretty funny, immature way. The way a kid might see it. There is one speech that is heavy-handed but it’s not offensive or anything.
It’s definitely for slightly older kids and adults, but not an “adult” movie in any way. It’s too silly for that label.
But it was worth watching for me just for the spectacle. I was thinking it might win an award in some visual category but then remembered Oppenheimer blew up an actual bomb 😆
are logical fallacies the same as sophistry?
Sophistry is definitely what I'm trying to address here!
Yeah
Interesting that a lot of fallacies idag in zoomer lingo
OK boomer (I’m older than y’all)
I heard ej was a grifting simp. But I don't think so
I disagree.
I am confused as why Barbie being political is bad, or why it “fears into propaganda”
It is undoubtedly a more political movie than most (I do subscribe to the idea that all art is political), but calling it an “end to end political movie” without having seen it is odd.
Fair enough. I base this on what I hear. I heard the term “patriarchy” alone was used like 18 times. That seems pretty politically stacked. Also EJ said “veers into,” not “fears into.”
Oh as for why it’s bad - it’s a movie about a toy brand for little girls. I prefer it be for 6 year olds and not for College-aged and older activists, with masturbation jokes and concerns about cellulite and death and the message that if left to their devices, men would automatically subjugate women. As for “all art is political,” I think that’s too abstract a statement to really mean anything. A movie like Barbie is fairly overt in its politics from what I understand, and a movie like Mario, I would say, has no discernible politics at all.
@@RedCowArcade I think my main contention is simply calling a movie “political” as a means as not to watch it. It is a hugely nebulous term that means different things to different people.
Not a 1:1 comparison but it’s like saying I’m not watching a movie because it has “symbolism”.
@agking50 I disagree, current-day pop politics aren’t (or don’t have to be) some ubiquitous thing in all movies. Least of all in children’s brands.
But I never said I won’t see it because it’s political. I watched the shit out of Dahmer and that was hyper political. All I’m saying in this video is that it’s ridiculous to deny that the movie is political. I think that denial is a tactic to make the movie’s politics seem neutral or unobjectionable.
@@RedCowArcade While I do disagree with several of your points, I don’t think I would want this discussion via RUclips comments haha
I would say that I agree saying that Barbie is not political is silly
Common Frankie L sadly 😔