Re:Kara-Tur - Reimagining D&D's China (Shou Lung & Tu Lung)
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- Опубликовано: 27 мар 2020
- It's been almost 20 years since the release of the last D&D Oriental Adventures supplement and it doesn't seem like they will be releasing an update anytime soon.
So in this new series, I am going to explore ways how we can reimagine Kara-Tur if I was put in charge of the supplement.
In this episode, I'm covering Shou Lung and Tu Lung, D&D's China.
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Oh please talk about Al-Qadim when you feel the time is right. I would love to see that area make a comeback.
IKR?! I've been trying to adapt that into my current campaign and it feels like WOTC has just forgotten about it instead of trying to adapt it for today...
"What if the letter from the legendary assassin is a fake and was actually sent by..."
A. the mother of the third prince.
B. the head of the secret police.
C. the child of an executed rebel.
D. a neighboring kingdom.
E. The Emperor himself. In an effort to weed-out political rivalry under him.
F. A bored palace guard.
Im gonna add the Imperial/Draconic Eastern Kobold aka Kobolds that follows the Divine/Chinese Dragons. They are dressed as nobles and clerical and varies dependending the region of Kara-Tur. Too in Kara-Tur exist the last tribes of the Canine Kobolds.
that's interesting
This idea kinda reminds me of the Okami clan from the Sekiro game, that is a clan of carp-like humanoids that lived in an enchanted, isolated enclave known as the Fountainhead palace and worshipped a great divine dragon that came from the west. They were basically Hiean era Japanese nobility crossed with mythology and folklore and they and their level was some of my favourite enemies and places in the game. So yeah I could imagine various clans of kobold-like or triton related beings living in isolated communities in enchanted palaces and mansions high up in misty mountains or deep within mystical ponds and waterfalls far beyond the boundaries of common civilization like capsules of a bygone mythical age. These scaly clans would ofcourse claim proudly ancestry from mythological creatures like eastern style dragons or Japanese mermaids since its quite common for powerful families to claim descent from magical beings or gods. This would provide a setting that feels fresh while also being inspired by history and mythologies from cultures that don't get alot of exposure here in the west as well as creating interesting characters and foes for groups of intrepid adventurers to meet and engage with!
@@navilluscire2567 Yup, as good to add Triton Carp and Locathah cast with Kobolds and Dragonborn. That gives diversity NPCs and good background for PCs too.
@@Zeromegas
Thanks for the comment, wasn't expecting a quick reply I just realized how long ago your post was, lol.
@@Zeromegas
Oh, by the way I just thought of another race to be recast in a "kara tur" 'mold'. Think clans of tieflings in not-japan but as descendants of thunder demons that mingled with humans long ago. Basically think of them as mini versions of the Japanese thunder god Raijin, much less powerful but still incredibly dangerous and temperamental. A campaign could be set up like with local villagers are being harassed by bands of lightning wielding 'demons' (the oni teiflings) from high up some mountains demanding tribute from the populace or else they'll take people hostage and possibly eat them. (maybe not and they just imply it to scare people into submission)
Maybe after Kara-Tur you do a similar take on Maztica, the Forgotten Realms Mezoamerican setting.
Eventually, I might have a go at it.
That would be great! Would love to see others take on Maztica and Zakhara, maybe with guests :)
V2Blast use art of Ixalan book. It is a great Maztic
Its pretty sad that Kara-tur has basically just been left to sit there, in existence, but not really fleshed out, in this day and age where knowledge that they didn't have way back when is easily accessible. So good on you guys to actually put some work into it. I've dabbled in it here and there myself.
Hey CJ, Oriental Adventures is my all time favorite D&D book. It was flawed with its marital arts styles, but I still really enjoyed it. I remember trying to have my character act honorable so I wouldn't lose face, ahhh the good old days. I'm very excited for this series of episodes.
Thanks CJ & have a great day.
I love this. Thank you so much. I'm working on Asian themed cultures for my campaign setting, but I wanted to give them more than Asian style clothes and reskining a sickle into a kama. Thank you for the inspiration.
Hey CJ! I love your content. I have been a fan of Cool History Bros. for ages and somehow didn't know this channel existed! I found this channel by accident while doing early research into a project I have been mulling around with rewriting Kara-Tur and updating it under the Dungeon Masters Guild license. I would love to collaborate with other scholars in making the setting come alive and be more authentic and fun it play in.
I remember getting that book back in 1985. Asian weapons and martial arts were so popular at that time due to a Ninja movie craze. I loved looking through that book and reading about all of the classes, weapons, etc. Glad you're making an effort to bring it back!
Well, still annoyed at lack of Jian and Guan Dao.
Even worse that they don’t specify that (I mean homebrew or guessing is one thing, but that came into issue when they mentioned “axes and short swords” on Chinese coded character that might cause some issues on mechanics if someone brought them up (like your average DM in 80’s would have no idea about polearms and think that a blade on large stick would be an axe) plus throwing around terms without any image (like butterfly sword can be known by martial arts aficionado, but someone would assume it as Jian or some generic Asian swords as one).
I mean basing on Kung Fu movie is one thing, but I think Jian and Guan Dao appeared in them as well.
5:15-6:26 I REALLY like the idea of group formations and smart tactics from enemies or foes that makes then WAAAAAY more effective than the sum of themselves against even mighty, experienced adventurers. This kinda reminds me of this other video that talks about how to make even lowly baddies like goblins or even bandits alot more effective as opponents without artificially raising hit points or other cheap stuff by simply...having them act intelligently, who knew that works right?! Things like setting up traps a d ambushes, assessing threats, and separating party members, divide and conquer, this can make even foes that are several levels below a group of adventures more of a real challenge, more dynamic and makes alot more sense in a world where such powerful groups of people are roaming around.
And yeah, the idea of *squad support magical items* inspired by the *"wolfbrush pole"* is something I really like too, items thay provide a shield from spells like fireballs from wiping out such group formations is quite interesting.
Sounds like you're well on your way to another DM's Guild project
Looking forward to it ❤
I appreciate you giving a shot at updating the Kara-Tur setting, although it is disappointing it was necessary. The Oriental Adventures variant was the last D&D campaign I ever played in the 1980s, and I had a wonderful time with it. I was collecting the Usagi Yojimbo series from its beginning then, and I had a lot of fun taking advantage of Stan Sakai's carefully researched stories to make my contribution to the party, even if it annoyed the DM like getting cucumbers to bribe a kappa he wanted for an adversary to fight to leave us alone and continually checking shadows and reflections for signs of shapeshifting creatures.
I played a Kensai who focused on barehanded fighting and even beat an opponent wielded twined katanas by winning initiative and punching him out with two strikes before he could react. In addition, I like the variant's little innovations like how mages could have a martial art as well as their spells and meaningfully contribute to fights even as at a low experience level.
The last 3 swords have some badass names
4:11 Bonus points for showing Liu Bei and his sworn brothers in the background.
As a major note, WotC never owned L5R, it was a collaboration for 3e...and then AEG released several books to support it. The OA book also had some very bad timing as it's one of the few books that came out immediately before the transition from 3e to 3.5 which caused some issues that were compounded by the update for it being in the magazines rather than an actual book unlike the other two books, but it's the one that kept the most people as it continued (Ghostwalk and Savage Species were the other two, and Ghostwalk never really caught on despite being awesome because of the transition and Savage Species got a LOT of support while adding more options that tied into 3.5 rather well).
Kara-Tur did have a 3.5 thing with a few updates as Dunegon and Dragon had a lot for it in the magazines.
I can’t wait to see the rest of this series, keep up the great work!
Thanks for sharing this CJ! I’ve been doing similar research over the last year for my home brewed world and game, aimed at helping in Hong Kong to learn to play D&D. This has given me some good ideas to work on.
CJ, this was brilliant and inspiring. Thanks for a chance to rethink my basis on a LOT of my concepts.
your idea for the seal sounds like the dragon blood amulet from elder scrolls
4:22 To put this into perspective, the author of Romance of the Three Kingdoms was Pro-Shu.
i remember watching your how to play d and d. and its cool to see how your voice changed
Hi CJ, I love your videos on both channels. If you ever want to create your own Asian themed D&D 5E book, I would be one of the first to help Kickstart it. These videos are great inspiration. Oriental Adventures introduced a whole bunch of new character classes. I'm wondering how these would be made as 5E classes if I were to attempt to run a longer D&D Kara-Tur game? Maybe a topic for a future video? 😉
Hilarious title! And the topic is amazingly good too.
This series is very cool! Love it CJ.
This is so cool! I can't wait to hear more of this setting, or your re-imagining of it, because I never read the original oriental adventures. Your ideas certainly sound a lot of fun, and the last part with gearpunk and magic swords reminds me a bit of the Fate setting Jade punk.
Wow this sounds amazing you should be doing the next official book! Cant wait for the rest of the videos.
4:43 I *LOVE* THEM!!!
*Crush 'Em All intensifies*
Here's an idea for updating the Wolfbrush to a magic-setting; why not have the spinning rotations of the wolfbrush require a Dex or Con check (or athletics in 3rd), in order to spinjump a quasi-arcane electromagical barrier (requiring fresh saves/skill checks each round to maintain), & creating a forcefield of DR for the whole group
Great stuff, man!
Great video, I always loved Kara-Tur, loved the fact it was part of the Realms
I need another five videos like this, great world building, the setting would be super fun.
I've been getting into the eastern part of faerun recently too! One thing to note is Shou Lung has spelljammer ships as part of their imperial fleet!
this is really cool, i especially love the stuff to do with the swords (because one of my favourite parts of being a DM is making custom magic items), and also the idea that assassins are seen as heroes.
Now THIS is some good stuff I need right now. Kara Tur needs to become more sensate and fun. I have nothing but esteem for your devotion to both history and D&D.
Shou Lung and Tu Lung remind me of Jin and Southern Song Dynasty
I like the oriental adventures I haven't played much I do remember when it came out meny years ago. I found it to be to complicated and I think this is how it started the game becoming more complicated after the release of this book the oriental adventures around the mid or late eighties if I remember correctly have a good day you do an excellent job.
Bro I've been making a whole entire story arc around this old ass campaign and trust me I'm loving it but I'm going to have to change the whole entire name
Looks like your doing a lot of quality work here. I would suggest that you review some global Toril events and try to reflect them into this region though in order to tie them together with the rest of the world too. Otherwise this would be better as an external setting like Eberon. Events like the Spell Plagues and Dracorage curse should impact those lands, Karthus Folly should be addressed too.
It would make a nice change if the relationship of Lóng in the lore changed so they were more diverse and independent with factions seeking vengeance, some moving away from society, and some turning to evil.
3:38 Which is one of the four classics of Chinese Literature.
I am not kidding. It's right up there with the Monkey King himself.
I really like these! Just a note. The group Marching Modron Press made a Monsters of the Orient and Heroes of the Orient PDFs. They have some REALLY good monsters
This is amazing content. I would love it if you could pick this up again and work your way around the philipines, pacific islands. India etc 😅
man this is great content.
Oh my god this is amazing think you for looking into this!! I'm excited to check it out what is the channel name for this project is it cool history bros or somthing eles?
It's always good to see new ideas pop up, thanks again CJ.
By the way, I had an idea of incorporating Elves or fae into an Asian setting due to their affinity and harmony for nature. Even in Korean Myth there are Fairies or Nature spirits who reside in the beautiful forests. But this wasn't the only idea I had, I was interested in making a Chinese or Japanese-like Society that used their own methods to invent stuff that other D&D cultures and locations may not have created. Yet.
Your ideas are really clever, I'd like to master a campaign set in Kara-Tur someday!
Love it!
These ideas sound good. I hope that there is an updated campaign setting guide for the rest of FR.
If this is going to be a product, I would totally buy it.
Where can the artwork be found its beautiful! This was a great video offering some insights into some lesser know legends
The old emperor dies.
The Prince is set to take the throne.
But, he is betrayed by his closest friend.
During the Emperor's funeral, all the high-ranking officials are present. The 'Friend' who was in charge of the bodyguards then uses the bodyguards to threaten the lives of the officials.
The 'Friend' blackmails the prince. Either hand over the throne to him, or allow the killing of all the high-ranking officials.
The prince, for the good of the nation, hands over the throne.
The 'Friend' is set to be the next Emperor. He acts from a commanding position in this time. Which he abuses.
There is a time period of political intrigue between the funeral and the coronation of the next Emperor. Those who support the Prince and those who support the 'Friend'
>> Insert lots of tasks for the Players to do here >> ie: talk to high-ranking officials and get them to join the Prince's side in a coup d'état against the 'Friend'. Conduct assassinations. Etc.
Come time for the coronation. Prince vs 'Friend'.
All the high-ranking officers have shown which side they are on.
The Prince and the friend duel. Trial by combat.
....
The 'Friend' lets the Prince kill him.
It was all a ploy by the Friend to weed out any opposition from among the high ranking officials.
The prince becomes the Emperor, with the knowledge that all of the officers working for him are loyal.
Love it.
Please do a full pdf proposal and get WotC to sign off on it. Too soon after Wildmount, but hey, maybe in a year or two.
Take that year or two to flesh-out the idea.
@12:30, the "Tempered by Night" sword name and description is missing - seems like you had the text selected and accidentally typed an apostrophe/single quotation mark in its place.
Otherwise, great video! I'd love to see the material on those more distant parts of the Forgotten Realms - those inspired by real-world Asian cultures - revisited and explored by writers/designers familiar with them. This video is a great demonstration of how much better it could be than, well, the surface-level Orientalist stuff (based on stereotypes and pop culture) that seems to constitute the entirety of Asian cultural influence in D&D so far. It feels like the designers didn't develop that stuff in much depth because that surface-level stuff was the extent of what they knew about the culture(s) - and ecause it felt "exotic" enough to them that, well, nobody would care about nuance and representation.
You do a great job of showing just how much depth and interesting material can be found by someone who actually knows their stuff. There are so many parts of the Forgotten Realms that have appeared in past editions but haven't been touched for ages - the continents of Kara-Tur, Maztica, and Zakhara, for instance. I'd love to see WotC find knowledgeable writers, designers, and cultural consultants to update that material to 5e and flesh out more of the Forgotten Realms beyond just fantasy medieval Europe (aka the Sword Coast). And I'd love to see others outside WotC publish that sort of material too :)
Looking forward to the future parts of this series! Maybe you could bring on guests to tackle other parts of the setting.
this sounds like a game I want to play :）
So, I took your character quiz, got Warlock. Wondering if you could expand upon the quiz? After all, Clerics will wonder what god they serve, Wizards what school they specialize in, Warlocks what pact they took, etc. This could even extend to races now that I think about it.
Hey Your an Aussie!!! Nice mate
Oh this is great! I've been longing for the D&D design team to give Kara-Tur a real and expansive do-over for the Forgotten Realms. How is it, especially in today's pop culture, are these people not giving Asian fantasy some real spotlight?! I'm pretty tired of Faerun, aka the Sword Coast and Waterdeep, at this point.
I think that Wizards will be more likely to introduce the Magic plane of Kamigawa then to reuse an older Asia-inspired campaign setting
Well, they decided to do Neon Cyberpunk.
Same with Cantha expansion for GW2 Arena Net despite having Korean publisher.
Either capitalization or Coincidence.
i would write this up for the Guild. and maybe get it published.id get some of it for sure
You should probably work on Kara Tur's Pantheon as well.
Love new improvement I 100% and. Do they have d&d japan adventure about 47 ronin?
Cool to see this setting getting acknowledged. It’ll be fun to see what you can come up with. I’ve had ideas that’d work with this and I cannot wait to see what’s next.
Also in case you want to put in Kaiju for whatever reason, Aj Pickett did a video on canonical Kaiju in the area near Karatur. Who wouldn’t wanna punch Godzilla in the Face after all 😎. I’ll put a link here
m.ruclips.net/video/yfN43EzzUF8/видео.html
This series is a great idea! I'm playing a Half-Orc Kensei Monk who traveled through Kara-Tur to Kozakura in my Dragon Heist/Mad Mage campaign. It'll be great to get some newer context.
Hey CJ, did you ever hear of Dragonfist? It was written as an optional AD&D setting, tries to capture the Wuxia Kung Fu Heroes of HK Movies. While hardly Historically accurate, it was much better/more fun than the official OA stuff that came out before and afterwards.
Haven't heard of it. Thanks for letting me know tho. I might check it out.
hey man have you heard of Champions? Its a classic tabletop game that lets you be Super heroes! I believe it also had an MMO in the past.
Oriental is not offensive to the vast majority of Americans, only to some college students.
Why would an assassin inform the emperor that he wants him to assassinate?
Isn't that unprofessional?
I think Oriental is mostly "offensive" to white Americans who feel it is their duty to be offended on behalf of asians. So I wouldn't worry about it too much.
I was thinking the same thing. I've heard it used by Asians several times. The only time I've heard someone whine about it was in a cartoon I was watching that was of course written by you guessed it, white liberals.
@@youcantbeatk7006 Not all Asians are the same, those white liberals who get on your case about the term "oriental" get offended because there are Asian people who are **also** offended.
@@Willie5000 I've never seen one at all ever. If anything it's probably just a vocal minority of journalist pushing artificial outrage.
WotC could always just release a Planechase: Kamigawa for a similar effe- hold on. Second channel? Hot dog! Gimme dat subscribe button!
Me and my friend bought the book the weekend it arrive and were disappointed with most of it. I read twice and put on the shelf. But your ideas are great seeds.
Oriental isn't offensive in the slightest, I'm fairly certain the people who think that it is don't know the definition of the word.
Dohjay! Representation matters.
"-and we're gonna make it great again!", "-I realize that some may get offended by this term, so I'll try not to use it as much." The beginning of this video was about as political as you've ever gotten lol.
Never pander to fluorescent-haired crazies. Star Wars and Marvel did and they have lost the faith of their actual fans.
D.S.T ~ "-and we're gonna make it great again!"
Me ~ " So you're going to Americanize it.
Hi just finding this. I'm curious, are you ethnically Asian yourself? I looked into Kara Tur when I was DMing but really did not like what I found so I ended up creating my own Japanese Fantasy campaign setting. I am curious to see if this is done from Asian p.o.v.
"Oriental" is offensive here? That's news to me, but not really surprising.
Really feels kinda dumb to just dtop the setting and not even try to bring it back
There is SO much to east Asia and Asia in general
And People love the history, culture, and monsters of that region, from Mongolia, to China, to Korea, to Japan
Japan espically!
I get that, yes, there might be some issues with the older books...but does that mean that they should just give up on it? No!
I want your kara tur stuff as actual modules and books. Hell if you want help producing im willing write ans research
Oriental literally just means east like occidental means west. People whining about nothing.
White Americans whining on other races behalf is so cringe.
People get to decide what they want to be called. It's weird how you think you get to decide what people are supposed to be ok with being called.
The people who have always asked not to be called Orientals are asian. Unfortunately, you know, privilege and prejudice means that nothing happens until white people join the cause.
A lot of white liberals whining here.
a lot of reactionaries whine’n about not being able to call asians oriental, and their stupid political culture war bullshit to boot in multiple comments. We get it whiney online reactionaries, you want to be a timid bigot.
don't give into that bs. Oriental is not offensive, it means what it always meant
im asian and i dont find oriental offenecive
Didn’t age well with the recent problems with old setting books
There aren't any problems besides them being lazy copy pastas of real history.
@@DontStopThinking Yeah, also I think Avatar: The Last Airbender being the high bar for Asian-esque fantasy didn't help with the tone.
And Kara-Tur being more historical cultures copy-pasted instead of magical-Asian fantasy didn't bode well with Naruto and Inuyasha being exposed to mainstream.
Also Legend of Five Rings did nailed Asian Magic Fantasy (even if human focused political intrigue).
I just watched a long discussion of Asians discussing Kara-Tur and it was pretty brutal. I didn’t know so much of Western-created-Asian-Fantasy was so harmful.
I was wondering if anyone who is Asian and a fan of Kara-Tur had any opinions as well?
Well, on one hand, some of their opinions seem to be based on surface-level reading or not interpreting from Samurai genre (like assuming the "Samurai ability to kill peasants without legal whim" or rice as payment (though latest video did finally covered that as mistranslation like "payment to cover food cost of family per year" instead of actual rice) as some sort of asian racism agenda. Also Steve being easily agitated and least informed among the group didn't help (he did say that he know little to know idea about Samurai genre).
On the other hand, it seems dull and lazy now. Mostly it works when the Samurai movies and Kung Fu were new thing and "Mystical Asia" is fantasy itself...atleast proliferation of Fantasy Anime, expansion of other Chinese works by more budget and talents by their home countries (like Red Cliff), and of course Avatar raising the bar for what audience expect about Asian Fantasy (sadly I think Raya is trying to be "Avatar Killer" like what ambitious works try to be Halo or WoW killer, which also fall flat at that). This is not mentioning annoying at deciphering whatever the Chinese, Japanese, or Asian language term they want to use, like Battle Ax either being actual Ax or catchall for Guan Dao polearm in Kara Tur Eastern Realms (especially since it's supposed to be a starter set for DM new to Asian culture yet have very little art...you know something to let them have general idea of what the "foreign" word is referring to).
Let's say that if you ask a tabletop game to simulate James Clavell's Shogun and Nioh, which former acting as metaphor for Oriental Adventures in 80's and latter represents acting as metaphor for Asian-esque homebrew fantasy by a DM in current times, the current audience would do the latter.
In fact, I am wondering if this is why they didn't make 2003 OA as Kara-Tur due to how dated it is (not to mention very bad for asian fantasy) and this is weeb-heavy era.
Ok I haven't played D&D for 30 years and I never played Oriental Adventures, but I just read a few things as I was looking for Middle Eastern D&D artwork: apparently a lot of Asians don't like the OA? I get that it was probably written by white dudes. But instead of grumping, embrace it and further, write it! We whiteys can't help liking eastern cultures. They're cool. So get off your Kirin and write "realistic" OA.
"Oriental" is offensive when referring to Eastern cultures?
Excuse-moi?
I have NEVER heard of this. As far as I know, 'Oriental' was the LEAST offensive grouping.
It sounds like more excuses for people to be offended for others. >.> Give me a break...
Arlax Wolf So the government sign a bill to take the word “Oriental” off all official documents. But most people I’ve talked to don’t find the work offensive. I still find games and books the use the word Oriental.
I'm just trying to think of a example where the word Oriental is used offensively.
I think it can be used offensively by intent.
Such as "You are oriental." or "You are black" or "You are Mexican"
None of these are offensive in their own right, but I can easily see some racist grandma saying these as insults.
Oriantel is not offensive people are just soft these days
the word "oriental" is only offensive to people LOOKING for things to be offended by. pay them no mind. unfortunately, things have gotten worse by 2023.