One thing i definitely noticed after switching from my old&cheap down-fire sub to a front-fire (Klipsch R-12SW on shock absorber feet) was exactly the effect i hoped for: Way less bass gets transmitted through the floor/walls, which means the people under me (my parents -> university student at home) don't hear that much of it. With the down-firing sub i could feel the bass in the floor more than i could actually hear it. It was always subjectively louder for people under me than for me. Now, with the Klipsch i can finally listen to music/movies in a more fun way.
I have two down-firing subs with hardwood floors on concrete. I use isolation feet as well and the response is tight, even and full. I have always preferred down-firing subs. Love this channel, btw!
When I purchased my down fireing sub woofers I lived in a house that had a concrete slab and I thought my subs were awesome! When we moved into our current house that has a totally wood floor that's sitting on concrete piers but the entire substrate of the house is wood . Well let me tell you my subs came alive and what I thought was awesome before with concrete floors was nothing compared to our current wood floors! I can now feel the low signals in my feet but I can also feel the bass alot more in general!...sitting on my couch you can feel the bass alot better !...I really dont understand how people with concrete floors think it's better for subs ! If you just use common sense it will tell you that a down fireing sub on a wood floor will turn the floor into a secondary carrier of the low bass !...what you wind up with is a more immersive experience of the bass!...its just physics really!!
Good point, some people like the effect they get from a wood floor, but I see it as a coloration of the sound. It truly depends on the floor. Some coloration might be pleasant, but with my floor it's too much. If the floor was fully carpeted, it would probably be better.
@@Bharatverse308 gee, I hope you’re kidding! But it is an interesting question and a novel one. It is feasible, I suppose, and might even be effective, but I wouldn’t recommend it!
I would say that the concrete produces a cleaner bass response. A wooden floor would tend to absorb the punch you get from tight bass. That said, I’m sure the warmth of the all encompassing bass you’re getting is wonderful.
Chris West Oh yeah. Makes earthquake/explosive movies superb. Even sci-fi movies where spacecraft make that low engine humming sound, gives a sense of awe. As soon as I get my replacement AVR, I will experiment with front firing.
So bass is supposed to be omnidirectional but I find that to be just for the tone. A down firing sub aims the movement of the air closer to the corner or rear wall. Which as we know can certainly influence performance making it produce more audible bass. (Whether it’s producing more actual bass or not) A forward firing sub will move the air at you. This can produce more of a thump (not necessary more bass tone tho) everyone knows a Bose Acoustimas enclosure can produce bass in its funky matrix enclosure. But that is just a way of producing the low tones. No way it will feel like the kick in the chest a forward firing 15” woofer will provide. Because there are 2 sensations bass produces: The low audible tone, but also the movement of air which you feel physically. So....... if you use a sub for your music and not just sound tracks you’ll be interested in a thumping bass and not just a low rumbling bass. Thus, a front firing sub pointed at your seating position can be more satisfying due to the physical sensation the air movement provides. You’ll also need to carefully aim the port. Choking the sub by placing the port too close to the wall is a killer. As is no corner or wall near by to reflect off of a killer as well. Too much open air space is no bueno either That said, I feel a smaller, down firing sub positioned correctly, can produce more low bass with less power and speaker size. Subs are all about the positioning of the sub and seating position. And the relationship between both. You can spend your life dicking around with subs to get better sound.
Great content as always! Just a quick note on sag. In a consumer sub, the sub is designed around sag (ie not an issue). IF someone is doing a DIY sub, they will want to check the math of the sub. Parts Express has a calculator for it to make sure the sub is designed for that type of enclosure. Thanks for reminding us that sub placement is important as well orientation. Not many people realize that. One thing to note as well. Most people do not have their room pressurized by their subwoofers. They would typically take multiple subs and big woofers to do that. Good call on getting 2 subwoofers! Keep up the great work!
I actually have one of each. It's kind of neat during a dynamic scene, you feel the bass coming from the floor (I do have wood floor) and bass coming straight at your chest; obviously one from the down firing and one from the front firing. I like it.....that's my personal preference!
100% noticed a benefit as well with the isolation feet!! The pressure is much more "in the air", than in my floor, shaking my house lol Hardwood with carpet ontop, dual PB2000's
Agree, I have the SVS isolation feet on all three of my subs. PC13 Ultra and a pair of PB-1000. Made a world of difference... Tamed the tube a bit, which it needed, it was rattling the dishes in the kitchen.
Your videos are really Informative. i had been Chomping at the bit for a while to make a decision on what to replace my Synergy sub 12 from Klipsch .It was the worst 3 weeks of my life. Downfiring , Rear-ported , and Loud and maddd as hell .from my car audio days i alwas noticed the reflected bass(firing towards the rear before entering the vehicle cabin) was and always felt, stronger, fuller .i auditioned 5 subs until the shopkeeper put down the klipsch.blew me.away. 11 years on and sadly it's amplifier section gave up the ghost lonng before the woofer did.i've replaced it now with an Svs pb1000 , and my initial thoughts or emotions are simply: front firing is far cleaner, but : that old american saying"there's no replacement , for sheer displacement" , rings true.i made an attempt to replace what i consider a stunningly good low budget 12 , with a Punchy 10 .I'm left a little dissapointed , even though the Pb is able to hit 19hz , it's in the 35Hz region where my concrete floored house, comes alive.i now either have to add another , pb , or find something else that completely blows my mind like the synergy 12 did , from klipsch. it wasn't even a close competition:i sat in that store for 3 hours and was beginning to feel sort of like" ho hummm...not impressed ", until i felt the energy from MArk's .50 Cal shot , in "Shooter ".The pressure from that bullet almost had me Ducking in the room .this, from a down-firing , rear ported sub.i will play with the pb for a while, to see if i am not missing something , or being too critical , but 3 things i have learnt thus far: 1:do not buy subs online -go and listen( even if you have to drive 50km ) 2:there's no replacement for sheer size:bigger is allllways , better and 3: down-firing may not nearly be as tight as forward firing subs , for musical detail and so forth ,but for movies and when properly powered, this is a welcome thing , and im left with the notion that: each to his own .a 500wRms amp , powering a down-firing sub , would put that bullet hole in your chest , Though im not even sure there are many companies who produce down-firing subs . ? Your videos are informative and i enjoy all the information tremendously. Thank you .
I could be wrong. I've had my share of both. Down firing sounds best with carpeted floors. The damping from the carpet reduces resonance and sound much tighter. You only want to hear the LFE, not the room, corner, Port noise or the enclosure. 🙂😉
Very /awesome good helpful information / tip(s) About the front fire and down fire on like wood flooring. I have carpet in bedrooms and my bedroom. Livingroom and kitchen has wood'flooring and my sub is a front fire but it has a couple front plastic strong plastic bar things infront to make it look cool and it doesn't get that much like feeling. SO i put the sub angling down as a downfire subwoofer ( it has enough space for the subwoofer driver so it doesn't hit / touch the carpet ) And i'm using a 6.5 inch subwoofer that runs 45 watts and it sounds loud and i can feel it sound better facing downwards / downfiring. I can feel the shakingness and i do have alot of more subs but idon't have them hooked up to my TV. i only have the 6.5 inch sub hooked up. I have bigger subs though. But i don't have them hooked up. But i will test the biger subs with the TV if i can.
Your conclusion makes sense, because the motion of the cone with its structure is not symmetric in the up-down motion, the zero-volt position of structure is already down-sagged. So, there should be inherent second-order harmonics.
Down firing subs are good for tactile feedback if placed at the proper height off the ground (seating height) and centralized between the LR for tactile cues (door slamming, engines, RR engine planes, helicopter blades, etc). The sound pressure is concentrated and vibrates/shakes your seating position if there's no obstacles. This is true for very small drivers like cheap Logitech 2.1 PC speakers with down firing subs (sends out ripples at lower frequencies) as well as larger more powerful subs (both subtle and violent vibrations). It's a nice substitute for bass shakers. It's good for a cinematic experience without spending a lot of money on larger driver side firing subs.
I had a cyber acoustics 2.1 with a downfirng sub. It used to annoy my family, if you turned it up all the way the sub would ring like a bell literally it would go DONG DONG DONG!
I never thanked you for one video you created that helped me tremendously. The settings on the Sony DSP Blu Ray player preventing Dolby Atmos decoding by the AVR. After these changes all worked!!! Thank you!!
I have 2 forward facing subs (1 at 12” and 1 at 10”) both with ports facing down at the floor both on a wood floor on a crawl space. And they sound awesome, feel awesome, and non locatable. Both are located in the opposite back corners of the room. And neighbors have never complained. Maybe on wood floors over crawl spaces front facing down ported subs are the best of both worlds. What do you thing?
I personnaly prefer the Down Firing, i can feel all vibration in my feet and body and sounds same in the ear than front one , .. i rly miss that vibraiton effect with front one,. ( my floor is concret , and i add under the sub a folding bathroom towel or all the house vibrate, lol , ) i think with bad wooden floor, can be rly bad > unexpected vibration the vibration have to be control by an isolation suits you, but i find the feeling of Down firing much better, front firing is more versatile and go everywhere without any adaptation i dont know if that make a difference too, but my sub are active, but i dont connect my speaker on it,, i connect my speaker to my amplifier , my sub are in a mono channel with is own gain control,
Down firing subs seem to make the most sense for subs that actually do excellent sub bass. With front firing sub the sound waves more closely approximate point source but down firing subs radiate the sound wave in an omnidirectional manner. Incidentally, elephants communicate via infrasound because of its powerful, long range and omnidirectional nature.
I know it’s an old video, but man I really liked this video and appreciate your opinion! I’m going crazy right now trying to figure out what to do for a subwoofer because I’m limited on space up front and I have hard wood floors etc.
I have a couple of down firing subs. My biggest consideration was aesthetically they don't look like a big sub. Mine have an attractive wood finish and with a cut glass top they look like really sturdy end tables - SWMBO approved!!! Another potential benefit from down firing is that the driver is somewhat protected from being knocked into / accidentally damaged. Although I would always use the "guard" the ones that would have come with my sub are more a type of cloth which has limited protection value but probably a higher aesthetic value. I've got them on a suspended wooden floor so floor noise is an issue. But my previous forward facing ones were also fairly noisy too, in my case it is just a noisy room. My subs weigh 48Kg a piece and never seem to move. I would probably choose forward firing for the benefits you outline and because I like seeing the drivers move. But aesthetics were a concern in my household so some compromise had to be made. They do sound awesome though and I've gotten to like feeling the floor move in sympathetic response as well as the accompanying rattles!
I have been using a downfiring sub for the last couple months. I just found that I can actually change the setup of the enclosure to orientate it to be front firing. I think I may try this out. With the current setup, it seems like I feel the bass even at times when I can't hear it. It's cool, but I imagine my neighbor doesn't enjoy it too much. Plus, I would prefer accurance over perceived output.
I built my own custom isolation pad (1" MDF/1"Acoustic Dense Foam/1" MDF. Wrapped in carpet, 4 black yoga blocks as feet) for my Ultra X12. it Sounds really tight and i get no rattles throughout the house. BUT it was much much harder/sensitive to place(sub crawl) than my old front firing subwoofer. Contrary to popular belief. I am 100% happy with it, but i somewhat regret not going with a VTF2 mk5 or VTF3 mk5 because i was lead to believe that down firing subs are easier to place.
Thanks for this video...I have a SVS PC 2000 on wood floors and it sounds wonderful - I love it ....maybe because I have a basement and my home is soundproof so it does not affect any of my neighbors...However, my dilemma lies in my next challenge to go dual... I am wondering if I should get the PC 2000 Pro or upgrade to the PB 3000. Not sure if anyone has any suggestions?
Hi, been looking at a few of your videos. Some great information there :-) One question I had... I think I’m going to go for a front firing sub over a down firing.. the only placement I can have would mean it’s not firing straight towards me (it would be firing across the end of the room (at a 3 o’clock angle next to the front Left speaker).. how much do you think that affects sound? Do you still keep the advantage over the Down firing setup? Guessing you looks some tactical feedback as the air isn’t getting physically pushed straight at you?
Better late than never. Down firing is best for corner placement as the bass will reflect of the walls eliminating standing waves aka more even bass. It can even amplify it. And don't worry you will feel tactile response granting your sub is powerful enough to pressurize the room. Of course ground will shake more, so you will feel like the dinosaur is really there :D
I'll have to look into the isolation pads. I just got a Klipsch bar 48 and the sub is super intense but it rattles my hardwood floors so much that it's difficult to enjoy
I also just got the Bar 48. I like the sub, but it a con about it is that it sub walks. Because of that, part of the wooden finish on the sub got chipped off from being in a corner spot (have a balcony door/side wood built of my place probably rammed into). I might switch it out for The Sixes cause I'm using the bar 48 for music which is great (not TV, I know that's not it's intended use I'm still an amateur to this and know I should be getting stereo "speakers" instead) but I think the Sixes are louder, clear/precise in sound as the bar 48 along with their own control of the internal sub.
I made a foam isolation pad with material i have at work and it worked great. I ended up returning the klipsch anyway. Wasnt satisfied, even tried the Sony z9f after. I now have an onkyo reciever with polk t50 tower speakers and sub and i am so satisfied with these
Thanks for your input! Hopefully I'll get more out of The Sixes. Trying to keep it simple with a lot of impact until I later on in the future with a real setup. I'm staying in college apartment right now so nothing to crazy, but as long it exceeds my needs.
Oh boy, Iv'e just watched a vid from "Accustic Fields". He explains why subs should not be placed on the floor, but lifted! I note that yours are directly on the floor. Take a peek, I'd like to know what you think. Iv'e had a brief look at your link, saved it in my favs, will read in more depth a little later! Being my birthday today, and officially old... It's a bit hectic here, just gone 9:00am, family coming over later! Frank...
+Frank James Happy birthday Frank! I could see elevating subs, but you'd have to have a room that would allow it. As it is, there could be a better location for my subs, but this is what I can manage in my mixed use room. Fortunately, running multiple subs allows more flexibility when it comes to placement. My wife is pretty understanding given what I do on the channel, but elevating 175 pound subs is not a small chore, and I'm not sure it would look so good in my room. In a dedicated room it's worth trying.
And side subs? For example, I have a wooden floor. And I'm leaning towards SVS. But I'm considering Arendal as well. And, while watching Arendal reviews, I've noticed, that some people turn it to the side, so the dynamic faces a listener. That's not a solution for me: if sub designed to be stay in that way - it should be in that way. So, what are Your thoughts on side firing subs? BTW, I have down firing sub with wooden floor right now... and it's quiet nice, because I do really feel bass more, than here. And I like it. But I'm in condo now, and feel bad for neighbors 🥺
The idea of a downfiring sub "sagging" because of gravity is stupid, because the magnet that moves the driver is way stronger than gravity and completely negates any influence gravity might have.
thank thank thank this what i needed to hear .. i have a front firing sub and i choose it at the time cause of concert and part of my floor was but now i have all wood floor so I was thinking to go down firing
Tbh your info is pretty sound, but it's hard to really take your "expertise" as valid seeing the room you're in. It's like trying to sell information while your experiences are based on a little shed with oversized subs (for sure) i know sounds arrogant. But it's what i see
What about combining two Subs? I already have down firing 8inch sub that I'm thinking about put it on the side of my room or in the back, behind my couch and I purchase new 12 inch front firing sub and place at the front where my center channel speaker.
I filled tontine ( Dacron) half full on my down firing sub. But on test tone on my Pioneer vsx 422 ? Sounds great. But on movie? It sounds gutless as a sub. Specs are 125 watts into 8 ohms. My Yamaha is 75 watts RMS into 8 ohms? I'm thinking to use Yamaha A-520 on pre out and hook up front speakers and sub? Because I Max volume on Pioneer VSX 422 is 80. I have to crank to 50 or more to get decent sound. On Yamaha I couldn't crank more than just under half. I'm used to using the old rule of Max volume adjustment to halfway? Any reply appreciated. Cheers from Australia 🙂👍👍👍. Subbed and liked 👍
Maybe a 2" thick 16" square concrete "tile" would change the sound? I have 2ea 10" sumiko subs that are downfiring with a front facing passive radiator, the wood floor (2x8" old fire joists) has heavy carpeting on it.
I have hardwood floors on concrete and I am very happy with my floor-firing subs. It is important to invest in some good isolation feet for your subwoofer. Don’t go for the cheapest ones.
I would think that opposite pointing drivers would cancel out the drivers movements ; this would make it motionless and smooth , just like inline 4 , 6 or 8 cylinder engines ! 🤔😁🧐
Thanks for the video! Considering a down firing and wanted some info. Not too crazy about the idea, but there's someone selling one in the classified for a nice price. I just like to see the driver, and exactly how much exertion it is under. Moved into an apartment off a house now with a carpet-covered wood floor. It's above a garage, so no one to worry about there, but I do have people in the main house. . . wondering how much more vibrations will make it to them bc of the down firing design. . .
+DarthHater100 Isolation is a good idea regardless in your scenario. sub101.link/Isolation (affiliate link) Down firing will cause a little more vibration, but not insanely so. You have to listen for it, it's not terrible, but it does have an impact.
hello there ...i want to ask ...my sub has the 10 inch driver at the front and the reflex port at the back ....so is that bad ..? should it be better if the port and the 10 inch driver are in the front ??????? does the port make a better punch if it is at the front side ?
Question not related to this video but I notice you have your bookshelves on top of your subs was that for the video or do you really have it like that and if so, how has that worked for you?
I've seen soundroom experts who recommend front, center, & rear, center placement of two subs. Their analysis appears to be based on this posting same conclusion that direct is better than reflected sound.
Totally disagree with this video. Who has a bare concrete floor in lr or den. If it is a hardwood floor there is usually concrete pad underneath. Where's the comparison with rugs?. I use a powered Yamaha downward firing sub which dispersed sound in 4 directions. Very natural and blends well.
john gallagher Some houses are built without concrete subfloors. This house is a prime example of that. If I stomp on my floor, the floor itself makes noise, unlike a virtually inert concrete subfloor. In a situation like mine, forward firing subs with good isolation makes a noticeable difference. I wish my subfloor was less active.
I am at a pickle between the PC2k and PB2k. With the isolation feet on PC2k would it have a different sound signature on carpet flooring? Also another question. Does the rear port on the PC2k cause location issues, like distance from a wall or corner? If I place it near a corner would it cancel certain nulls in the room? Thanks in advance. Looking to go with a dual setup.
+jhugo1986 With the rear ports, I didn't notice any issues. The 2 subs do have a slightly different sound, but I can't say how much of that was my floor and how much of it was the sub. I couldn't speculate how much of an impact carpeting might have, but I wouldn't expect a notable negative impact. The takeaway is that while I preferred the front firing design in my room, I wouldn't be unhappy with the down-firing subs if that's what fit better. My floor is very active and noisy. The better your floor is, the less of a problem it should be.
hey subwoofer 101 i just took the bluetooth boombox that i just posted on my channel and faced the 4 front facing mini woofers into the floor on a wood floor(carpet) and it seems like 3 times more bass im not kidding....any comments or recommendations
When you say the cables are great for getting rid of pesky hums, I assume you are saying they do a good job of replacing cords that cause pesky hums? Or do they really get rid of hums? I have a hum out of a headphone jack on an old Westinghouse that I would love to eliminate without needing a dac to use coaxial out of it.
You mention Port Noise in this video and the previous one as well without getting into it much. I'm wondering if that is to be expected with a ported sub or if it's something that you don't have with the SBS subs. You describe it like you encounter it from time to time. I got my first ported Sub, Q Acoustics Q2070si a year ago now and I hear from time to time what I could only describe as port noise around the 30 to 38hz range (it doesn't go really much lower unfortunately). Doesn't bother me the slightest if the whole movie is very loud, but from time to time, there is a silent moment with heavy LFE effect (especially recent ones : Force Awakens, Wonder Woman, Horror movies in general) and that's the only thing I can hear, takes me right out of the experience. I'm just wondering if that's something that will happen to any ported sub owner in some form or if I just have a crappy sub. Thanks for the help. I would love a video on the topic to learn more about it, and how to reduce it :) Great job on your videos, keep it up!
Thanks, and I do intend to cover the topic. Any ported sub will produce some port noise when it hits its limits, but it's all relative. Your sub is doing it around 30-38 hertz, where the subs on "The List" will typically only generate port noise WAY down low, from scenes like the Edge of Tomorrow Opening scene, which will test any sub, killing some. It's a series of low tones that are all under 25 hertz and very heavy. The more you turn it up, the more likely you are to hear it, but some subs require you to get up close to hear it, which is a good thing. With variable port subs, having 1 port plugged increases the likelihood of getting port noise. Aside from a few scenes like that one, port noise is a rarity on "The List": www.subwoofer101.com/best-subwoofers/ Many subs will generate port noise much more easily, and higher up the frequency range, which as you describe, robs you of the enjoyment. Force Awakens has some very serious deep tones, yet no port noise from any of the subs I've heard from "The List", but I'm sure they can be pushed to that point if you really try. Every sub has it's limits, and when it gets to that limit, port noise is one of the signs. In regular listening for me, that scene has been the only way I've been able to experience port noise, everything else has been noise free as far as I can tell, when it comes to "The List". That is one of the drawbacks to my gain hack though, you're more likely to hit the subwoofer limits sooner.
It all depends on the port velocity, tuning, and physical smoothness of the port. Port noise is literally air turbulence from the port distorting the sound coming from the port. The air velocity in a port is going to be highest at, or slightly below, the tuning frequency of the port. Most commercial subs are tuned in the low 30Hz range (roughly), so low 30's is likely where you'll hear port noise from most off-the-shelf subs. I build my own speakers and, for my builds, I like to keep the port velocity under 20m/s with as smooth a port as I can possibly make. I use port flairs at least on the outside, if not on both ends to help minimize the turbulence as the air moves in and out of the port as well. Most commercial subs will allow for port velocities to run closer to 30m/s because that allows for a much smaller port to stuff in the box. This works in most cases, but as noted, it can sometimes create noise when pushing the sub near its limit at the tuning frequency.
I've never had a sub or listen to one before. I'm wondering if its better to get a front firing sub on a carpet floor? I would think I would feel the pressure on me better than down firing sub.
Personally, I would go with a more traditional front firing subwoofer unless you needed the down firing subwoofers to save space, or you prefer the look, reduced cost, etc... I wasn't able to try them on concrete subfloor, my only experience was on wood subfloor. There may not be a big difference on concrete. I'd want carpet vs hard floor anyway to cut down on the first reflection of the main speakers. I didn't evaluate the carpet effect on the down firing subwoofers, so I can't say for sure, but I see carpeting as a positive in general. You should check out subs from "The List" for subwoofers that go STRONG down to 20 hertz, the bottom of the human hearing range. It really is transformative, and very rare, most subs are relatively weak under 30-40 hertz. www.subwoofer101.com/best-subwoofers/
Any thoughts on sealed subs, or ported subs? I have a REL T9i ... 10" front firing cone with a 10" passive down firing radiator. Can you or someone in the comment section tell me how a passive radiator works, and why they are fitted! I like the front firing cone, but not really sure why ... lol My 12" Velodyne sub, is a front firing cone with two quite large down firing ports! I want SVS subs, but have got to save hard to get them... one day I hope! Oh, and I have a well insulated/damped, trational wooden floor with about a foot of cavity! My subs are good, but SVS are wall splitters... lol Also my hifi system defined where we live, I have to have a detatched house. How stupid, that one has to chose what house one lives in around the bloody hifi ... lol
Thanks for the quick responce, will check that out Sub 101. Frank... From the UK. PS. What may interest you is I'm a retired carpenter/builder. I am currently planning and designing my new listening room, hopefully to start next summer! It will be about 500sq ft, so quite large by UK standards. I am currently researching accustic treatments, but it will have a traditional wooden floor! Apart from being warmer, and easier to heat! However, I have a few ideas of my own, which I'm working on to! Also, was designing my own speakers yesturday, something Iv'e always wanted to do, and finally have the time to dedicate to this project! The building is exiting, but what's more exiting, is what to put in the room once built! Being a skilled carpenter/builder, I can save around £45,000... on the build!
Rel does outperform SVS without even trying, problem is RELS are expensive very...very expensive. I had the stadium III not much after that i had that would beat that sub.
To all people with wood floors and a down firing sub: get a concrete or stone square plate with thin layer of cloth (as thin as possible) underneath to avoid scratching the wood floor. This helped me a lot and its amazing.
I am by no means a Audiophile but I know what I like and for me I like the way a Down Firing Subwoofer sounds vs a Front Firing Subwoofer for a Home Theater system. The system I currently have in my family room is a Onkyo 7.2 but I am running it as a 5.1 with Polk Audio TSi 400 mains, TSi C20 center and TSi 100 rears my sub is a older Klipsch KSW-15 Down Firing that is AWESOME. My family room is fairly large 24' x 26' x 9' that is carpeted, my TV sit in a big entertainment cabinet that 8' wide with mains at each end with the sub in behind the right speaker. What I've noticed with the Down Firing Klipsch is when watching something with a lot of explosions & effects (beach landing in Saving Private Ryan or Godzilla stomping around) that the bass really fills the room and you can feel it in your body without being so directional. When I tried a Polk Audio Front Firing Sub it didn't seem to fill the room and I could pinpoint where the Sub was, a buddy has a very similar system only he has a Front Firing Sub and has along with others have repeatedly commented how much better mine sounds with the Klipsch. With that being said I am putting together a 5.1 system in a bedroom that's 14' x 14' and can't decide if I should get a Down or Front Firing Sub or what size and power, all the speakers in this room are Klipsch RP Bookshelf series if I stick with Klipsch and a Down Firing Sub the only one the make is a 50w (150w peak) 8".???? Does anyone have a suggestion on a Sub Front or Down Firing, keep in mind the room size ?
Running dual subs reduces the ability to localize, and several other huge benefits. Check out my list of subwoofers (see description), ANY two of those (matched is ideal) will give you a whole new experience, front firing or down firing. More depth, and an amazing movie experience. Music too, but the movie experience would shock you. Duals make a big difference though.
@@Subwoofer101 Thanks! I've never ran 2 Subs and have some questions, because of current health issues I am unable to travel to local stores to demo things in person so I'm having to rely on the help of others along with doing online research. I am going to describe the bedroom so you have a better idea of what I have to work so f it turns out to be lengthy I apologize, this system will be mainly used for movies and video gaming with Very little music listening. My TV is mounted in the center of one wall with a closet to the right side corner on the opposite wall the bed is centered, my receiver and several gaming consoles are all in a stand which I had to place in the closet. Because of the room size and the furniture floor space is very limited, using 2 Subs I have 2 maybe 3 different options on placement. Option 1 is to have 1 Sub in the closet behind the stand but off to the side so it's not completely blocked off, the other Sub would go to the left of the bed caddy corner of the one in the closet. Options 2 & 3 require rearranging and finessing, Option 2 would be to have both Subs to the left & right of the bed in the corners, Option 3 is 1 in closet and the other to the right of the bed in the corner which would put both Subs on one side of the room (the right side if you're facing the TV). Using the 2 Subs how should I have them adjusted on the phase set 0-90-180? Should both be set the same or have one at 0 and the other at 90 or 180, 90 & 180? Again being a bedroom system that I don't need to shake the neighbors and limited floor space what size would you recommend 2 8" 2 10" or 2 12" and Wattage? Again THANKS !!!
I've seen frequency response measurements from having a subwoofer box in a car in various directions, and it's barely any different. Probably the same case with indoor, but the difference for the neighbors might be different from the vibration transferred through the feet and the floor
The trick with down firering subwoofers is to place a square rug underneath the sub sligtly larger than the subs area and you will see how much betterbit is than a front fireing its a thousand times better than a front fireing
A thousand times better?? Wow! How did I ever miss that? I can't believe I was so incredibly wrong, thank you for correcting me!! 🙃 Seriously though, it has more to do with your floor than anything else. If your floor transfers a lot of sound energy, like an old wood floor, you might get more noise and have a sense of it being "better", when you're actually getting more distortion, not ideal. Louder doesn't always mean better. If you have a concrete floor with thick carpet, it almost doesn't matter. There is virtually no sound energy transferred into the floor.
That's basically a concrete subfloor, but a stomp test will tell you how much sound you get out of the floor. With a foam underlay, it may sound like a basketball court, so front firing might still be the way to go. A rug might be a good idea regardless to reduce reflections. ruclips.net/video/JMwxa762agU/видео.html
I have a craw space under my house. I first had the pc-2000 in a 10x10x10 room. I got the pc because I don't have lots of space for a box. I felt it was very weak and I was not impressed for that price. I then upgraded to the pc 13 ultra. I now feel I got what I wanted but it's not blowing me away like I hoped for. I told svs maybe it's being absorbed by the wooden floors and the walls. They didn't think so. I believe this sub should be knocking picture frames down and more but best way to describe it I get window shutters rattling at its peak. It's great sub, but I still wanted more. My point is I always believe that the craw space and wooden floors were to blame. Svs head tech said maybe because I have no center speaker the avr isn't allowing enough bass.
You know, I do think there is something to the no center thing. I just did that in my tiny room, and adding the additional speakers allowed Dolby Music to kick in, giving much better bass. The PB-16's came off a little anemic as well, which I KNOW is not the problem. Adding the center really woke them up, I was surprised. Sounded exactly like what you're describing. Dual PB-16's in an 11x11 room should kick serious butt, but it didn't happen until I hooked up the center. That's on the Denon X2000, the X-6200 sounds healthy in Stereo mode. I wouldn't have thought, and I think it depends on the AVR. I wonder if you can run a phantom center and crank up the "Width" setting to get better response? A true center would be better, but maybe that could get some bass back? The PC-2000 should have rocked your world, and the PC-13 should kick even harder. I do think it's your AVR more than your wood floor, or at least a setting. Which AVR are you running? Have you updated it?
Subwoofer 101 I have the denon x3300 105watt. I did the Odyssey and svs helped tweak the rest of the settings. I think the bass I'd set around 3 on the Avr and -5db on the sub. I got the ultra bookshelves so maybe I'll have to consider the center. This would make an excellent video if you could find out with evidence .😁
@@Subwoofer101 I have 2 10" front firing subs under each tower in the front and one 12" down firing behind my recliner and couch and setting the crossover at 40 Hz specifically for being a floor and seating rumbler :) seems like the floor is perfectly at the same resonate freq. and really ads a new dimension in the immersive experience. One note on carpeted floors, some of the the down firing subs have these pointed shaped feet that they sit on... those will just sink threw the carpet and padding esp. with the heavier subs and choke off the air gap and the driver.. I cut 4 3" square x 1/2" thick wood pads and placed them under each spiked foot and this keeps the air gap where it should be .. made a very notable difference, I had to back the gain off a few notchs..
I don't know much at all. But my opinion is maybe it's because he keeps the still frame the whole video. Viewers need their attention grabbed not only by the knowledge you give but the visual appeal
@@randall96 different tastes. His commentary is the only i listen to. any other reviewer and i would already skip through the video. Might not be the same for everyone like u said but i just love his style
If you live in a high rise apartment, you're actually going to be dealing with wood-over-concrete floors. (I should also add that owning a sub is not recommended, as the building management for those tend to be especially uppity.) Anyway, I didn't like the way my audio sounded in there, no matter what. I became a headphones guy.
@@Subwoofer101 Thanks, I have a desktop speaker with a down-firing subwoofer. I'm thinking of suspending the subwoofer under my table and turn it 90 degree so it becomes a front or side firing instead.
Front firing with isolation on wood subfloors, less of an issue and more freedom of choice with concrete. I would still do down firing on wood if floor space was tight, but I would prefer front firing if it was an option.
+john smith It doesn't look like it's a very "deep" subwoofer. Believe it or not, the PB-1000 should have a deeper presentation, despite being 10" subwoofer and 300 watts RMS, 700 watts peak. 2 of those should give a greater range of bass. The wharfedale will probably have a higher Max SPL, but there are more important things to consider, like the shape of the response curve. In the description, there's a link for the Best Subwoofers List. Any 2 matching subwoofers from "The List" will deliver outstanding deep bass.
What is the difference between a well “Stringed Wood Floor(2x6 on edge 12 inch centres) and Concrete? Mass, so if your wood floor is Heavy, it will not vibrate and transfer Sound Energy. So your conclusion is half there but your Scientific Knowledge needs a bit more “Research”.
So I didn't cover the less than 1% of people with truly high mass, solid wood floors that are truly noise free. Really? That's what you're trying to troll me on? I get complaints that my videos are too long, so I simplify when I can. Stomp on your floor. If the floor itself makes substantial noise, as mine does (NOT a solid, high mass wood floor), then it's probably better to go with front firing subs and isolation, or at least be aware of the problem. If you have a very well built, truly quiet wood subfloor that makes no noise from the floor itself or surrounding walls when you stomp on it, then it doesn't matter. If you are trolling me on semantics, I could easily troll you right back. A high mass wood floor, poorly designed, fastened, and constructed, could still be noisy. It could even be designed in such a fashion that it's even noisier. Does such a thing exist? Would it really even matter if it did? The Tacoma Narrows bridge failed because resonant frequencies weren't properly taken into account. Pretty substantial mass I would say. Not so much about sound, but it's easy to get into the weeds and argue about unintended consequences of structural design, despite a large mass. Wood and concrete conduct sound differently, especially in practice. In practice, generally speaking, with the same flooring material (carpet, tile, etc...) a concrete subfloor will usually be less problematic for bass conduction/transmission than a wood subfloor. I would joke that next time I will cite all references and publish a study with peer reviewed findings, but I might be taken literally. I'm just trying to make things a little easier for the layperson, rather than trying to please every potential antagonist that has an internet connection. www.researchgate.net/publication/235218769_Wood_or_concrete_floor_-_A_comparison_of_direct_sound_insulation
I notice a ny giants made into a trianhle on your wall. Whats with the triangle dude ? My studies and understanding of seeing all these triangles in movies tv and everywhere is for a reason and its not good...so will like to hear ur reason of making a giants team logo into a triangle
+Douglas Jones Triangles have symbolic meaning throughout history. The pyramids of Egypt and central America might be linked by a history we are unaware of, or maybe engineers of the time all figured out that building straight up with stone would crumble, while the pyramid shape allowed taller stone structures. I suspect that there wasn't any connection, other than the laws of physics. People figured a lot of things without computers back then, so I think it's plausible that people from opposite sides of the Earth figured out the same thing. It's also plausible that there was sea travel that wasn't recorded, or the records were lost. I give a lot of credit to our ancestors. As for my triangle, it's not so interesting. It's my Giant Anthem 29er mountain bike frame. I cracked it, and when they replaced the frame, I kept it and got it signed by some of the team riders. Carl Decker dominated Downieville for 6 years on that bike. There is no connection to the football team, nor any symbolism. I have fibromyalgia, so I don't get to ride very often, but I hang it there for inspiration to ride. It's a conversation starter for sure. I actually talk about the bike frame in my next video. I'm not a Free Mason or a member of the Trilateral Commission. Just a mountain biker who doesn't get out on the trail as often as I would like.
It will work fine. Running dual PC-2000's rather than mixed would be that extra 1% better, but they are close enough that a PB-2000 and PC-2000 should work fine together. Because of the driver orientation, the sound from the PB-2000 will get to you before the PC-2000 if place the same distance away. The sound has to bounce off of the floor before it travels to you, where the PB-2000 is more of a direct path, so it takes less time for the sound to reach you. You might see this if your AVR allows for different subwoofer distances, your PC-2000 will probably show up an extra 0.5 to 1.5 feet further than the PB-2000 ends up at. Long story short, not a big deal.
Down firing subs create a pressure node between the floor and the cone the result is a smeared sloppy bass note. Sometimes down firing can sound like more bass because the pressure nodes can create all kinds of harmonics not desired. Secondly small large excursion subs create a lot of mechanical noise that is exacerbated by the floor. With subwoofers size matters a large cone just cruising along is far better then a small large excursion sub near xmax. A waterfall plot will clearly show why you never down fire a sub. I’m guessing people didn’t take physics your amp rapidly pushes the cone downward now you have mass in motion it’s going to be much more difficult for your amp to pull that back up against gravity. Accumulated delay issues the list goes on and on. At very low SPL levels all these issues are less evident.
Michael Moore harmonics of what exactly? The cone is 2 inches from the floor. The wavelength of sub frequencies are larger than the room. Please link to the water fall plot comparing down and front firing. The weight of the cone is negligible compared to the force acting on it by the magnet. It’s not zero but is it audible? Doubtful.
+Jay Boogie Terrible? :) The speakers are placed as far apart as they can be without being in the hallway or right against the wall. I appreciate your concern though. This is a mixed use room, so it also serves as a family/living room.
Subwoofer 101 they are all right next to each other...their supposed to be spread out through out the room not on top of each other..y would you pay for all thet with out setting it up properly to have a full surround sound effect...you should stop making videos and watch some on how to do a proper set up
Andrew Hovey ok...who cares shit dont need to be spelled right to get your point across...the fact that you put that means you have no time on your hands and you probably live alone and are a loser..
One thing i definitely noticed after switching from my old&cheap down-fire sub to a front-fire (Klipsch R-12SW on shock absorber feet) was exactly the effect i hoped for: Way less bass gets transmitted through the floor/walls, which means the people under me (my parents -> university student at home) don't hear that much of it. With the down-firing sub i could feel the bass in the floor more than i could actually hear it. It was always subjectively louder for people under me than for me. Now, with the Klipsch i can finally listen to music/movies in a more fun way.
I have two down-firing subs with hardwood floors on concrete. I use isolation feet as well and the response is tight, even and full. I have always preferred down-firing subs. Love this channel, btw!
When I purchased my down fireing sub woofers I lived in a house that had a concrete slab and I thought my subs were awesome! When we moved into our current house that has a totally wood floor that's sitting on concrete piers but the entire substrate of the house is wood . Well let me tell you my subs came alive and what I thought was awesome before with concrete floors was nothing compared to our current wood floors! I can now feel the low signals in my feet but I can also feel the bass alot more in general!...sitting on my couch you can feel the bass alot better !...I really dont understand how people with concrete floors think it's better for subs ! If you just use common sense it will tell you that a down fireing sub on a wood floor will turn the floor into a secondary carrier of the low bass !...what you wind up with is a more immersive experience of the bass!...its just physics really!!
Good point, some people like the effect they get from a wood floor, but I see it as a coloration of the sound. It truly depends on the floor. Some coloration might be pleasant, but with my floor it's too much. If the floor was fully carpeted, it would probably be better.
Great to hear about your floor-firing experiences. Glad to know I’m not alone out there!
@@terrycole2407 I have a wooden tv ceiling, should I place subwoofer on that wooden ceiling??
@@Bharatverse308 gee, I hope you’re kidding! But it is an interesting question and a novel one. It is feasible, I suppose, and might even be effective, but I wouldn’t recommend it!
I would say that the concrete produces a cleaner bass response. A wooden floor would tend to absorb the punch you get from tight bass. That said, I’m sure the warmth of the all encompassing bass you’re getting is wonderful.
Wood flooring, down subs, vibration travels easier to neighbours. Front firing, less annoying for neighbours.
Ed A does a Downfiring sub give you more tactical feel. like Shaking the sofa more?
Chris West
Oh yeah. Makes earthquake/explosive movies superb. Even sci-fi movies where spacecraft make that low engine humming sound, gives a sense of awe. As soon as I get my replacement AVR, I will experiment with front firing.
Ed A nice thanks! do you have any experience with svs pc2000 or pb2000? I’m not sure which one to get
Chris West nope
I only have a downfiring sub and moving into an upstairs apartment. Wish my neighbors luck.
So bass is supposed to be omnidirectional but I find that to be just for the tone. A down firing sub aims the movement of the air closer to the corner or rear wall. Which as we know can certainly influence performance making it produce more audible bass. (Whether it’s producing more actual bass or not)
A forward firing sub will move the air at you. This can produce more of a thump (not necessary more bass tone tho) everyone knows a Bose Acoustimas enclosure can produce bass in its funky matrix enclosure. But that is just a way of producing the low tones. No way it will feel like the kick in the chest a forward firing 15” woofer will provide. Because there are 2 sensations bass produces: The low audible tone, but also the movement of air which you feel physically.
So....... if you use a sub for your music and not just sound tracks you’ll be interested in a thumping bass and not just a low rumbling bass. Thus, a front firing sub pointed at your seating position can be more satisfying due to the physical sensation the air movement provides. You’ll also need to carefully aim the port. Choking the sub by placing the port too close to the wall is a killer. As is no corner or wall near by to reflect off of a killer as well. Too much open air space is no bueno either
That said, I feel a smaller, down firing sub positioned correctly, can produce more low bass with less power and speaker size.
Subs are all about the positioning of the sub and seating position. And the relationship between both. You can spend your life dicking around with subs to get better sound.
Great content as always! Just a quick note on sag. In a consumer sub, the sub is designed around sag (ie not an issue). IF someone is doing a DIY sub, they will want to check the math of the sub. Parts Express has a calculator for it to make sure the sub is designed for that type of enclosure.
Thanks for reminding us that sub placement is important as well orientation. Not many people realize that. One thing to note as well. Most people do not have their room pressurized by their subwoofers. They would typically take multiple subs and big woofers to do that. Good call on getting 2 subwoofers! Keep up the great work!
Thanks! Duals are vital in my opinion. I like your subwoofer break in video, I might reference it in the future if that's Ok with you?
I actually have one of each. It's kind of neat during a dynamic scene, you feel the bass coming from the floor (I do have wood floor) and bass coming straight at your chest; obviously one from the down firing and one from the front firing. I like it.....that's my personal preference!
thats a great point dude! i ahve both as well but on different sytems. im going to try on my 7.2!! cool stuff idk why i never thought of that
thats a great point dude! i ahve both as well but on different sytems. im going to try on my 7.2!! cool stuff idk why i never thought of that
100% noticed a benefit as well with the isolation feet!! The pressure is much more "in the air", than in my floor, shaking my house lol Hardwood with carpet ontop, dual PB2000's
Yeah, they really bring out the best on wood floors. Seems to send more of that energy to your ears instead of your feet.
I have the same setup (dual PB2000’s + Isolation feet), but on tile floor.
Agree, I have the SVS isolation feet on all three of my subs. PC13 Ultra and a pair of PB-1000. Made a world of difference... Tamed the tube a bit, which it needed, it was rattling the dishes in the kitchen.
Your videos are really Informative. i had been Chomping at the bit for a while to make a decision on what to replace my Synergy sub 12 from Klipsch .It was the worst 3 weeks of my life. Downfiring , Rear-ported , and Loud and maddd as hell .from my car audio days i alwas noticed the reflected bass(firing towards the rear before entering the vehicle cabin) was and always felt, stronger, fuller .i auditioned 5 subs until the shopkeeper put down the klipsch.blew me.away. 11 years on and sadly it's amplifier section gave up the ghost lonng before the woofer did.i've replaced it now with an Svs pb1000 , and my initial thoughts or emotions are simply: front firing is far cleaner, but : that old american saying"there's no replacement , for sheer displacement" , rings true.i made an attempt to replace what i consider a stunningly good low budget 12 , with a Punchy 10 .I'm left a little dissapointed , even though the Pb is able to hit 19hz , it's in the 35Hz region where my concrete floored house, comes alive.i now either have to add another , pb , or find something else that completely blows my mind like the synergy 12 did , from klipsch. it wasn't even a close competition:i sat in that store for 3 hours and was beginning to feel sort of like" ho hummm...not impressed ", until i felt the energy from MArk's .50 Cal shot , in "Shooter ".The pressure from that bullet almost had me Ducking in the room .this, from a down-firing , rear ported sub.i will play with the pb for a while, to see if i am not missing something , or being too critical , but 3 things i have learnt thus far: 1:do not buy subs online -go and listen( even if you have to drive 50km ) 2:there's no replacement for sheer size:bigger is allllways , better and 3: down-firing may not nearly be as tight as forward firing subs , for musical detail and so forth ,but for movies and when properly powered, this is a welcome thing , and im left with the notion that: each to his own .a 500wRms amp , powering a down-firing sub , would put that bullet hole in your chest , Though im not even sure there are many companies who produce down-firing subs . ? Your videos are informative and i enjoy all the information tremendously. Thank you .
I could be wrong. I've had my share of both. Down firing sounds best with carpeted floors. The damping from the carpet reduces resonance and sound much tighter. You only want to hear the LFE, not the room, corner, Port noise or the enclosure. 🙂😉
I have mine on a carpeted concrete floor. Do you think that is a better option than putting it on a concrete tile?
If you live in a condo or apartment = don't get down firing subwoofer.
Especially on the upper floors!
I realized this the hard way, upstairs neighbour has had glasses shake out of her cabinets, shitty darn wooden floors.
I guess I won't get that well reviewed 10 inch acoustic audio downfiring sub then
@@raymondleggs5508 I will advice against that yes.
@@OpTiclightning Lol I'll guess I'll ge the front firing "10" Dayton/micca sub instead.
Very /awesome good helpful information / tip(s) About the front fire and down fire on like wood flooring. I have carpet in bedrooms and my bedroom. Livingroom and kitchen has wood'flooring and my sub is a front fire but it has a couple front plastic strong plastic bar things infront to make it look cool and it doesn't get that much like feeling. SO i put the sub angling down as a downfire subwoofer ( it has enough space for the subwoofer driver so it doesn't hit / touch the carpet ) And i'm using a 6.5 inch subwoofer that runs 45 watts and it sounds loud and i can feel it sound better facing downwards / downfiring. I can feel the shakingness and i do have alot of more subs but idon't have them hooked up to my TV. i only have the 6.5 inch sub hooked up. I have bigger subs though. But i don't have them hooked up. But i will test the biger subs with the TV if i can.
Your conclusion makes sense, because the motion of the cone with its structure is not symmetric in the up-down motion, the zero-volt position of structure is already down-sagged. So, there should be inherent second-order harmonics.
Down firing subs are good for tactile feedback if placed at the proper height off the ground (seating height) and centralized between the LR for tactile cues (door slamming, engines, RR engine planes, helicopter blades, etc). The sound pressure is concentrated and vibrates/shakes your seating position if there's no obstacles. This is true for very small drivers like cheap Logitech 2.1 PC speakers with down firing subs (sends out ripples at lower frequencies) as well as larger more powerful subs (both subtle and violent vibrations). It's a nice substitute for bass shakers. It's good for a cinematic experience without spending a lot of money on larger driver side firing subs.
I had a cyber acoustics 2.1 with a downfirng sub. It used to annoy my family, if you turned it up all the way the sub would ring like a bell literally it would go DONG DONG DONG!
I never thanked you for one video you created that helped me tremendously. The settings on the Sony DSP Blu Ray player preventing Dolby Atmos decoding by the AVR. After these changes all worked!!! Thank you!!
It's always great to get feedback like that, helps me shape my content, thank you!
I have 2 forward facing subs (1 at 12” and 1 at 10”) both with ports facing down at the floor both on a wood floor on a crawl space. And they sound awesome, feel awesome, and non locatable. Both are located in the opposite back corners of the room. And neighbors have never complained. Maybe on wood floors over crawl spaces front facing down ported subs are the best of both worlds. What do you thing?
I personnaly prefer the Down Firing, i can feel all vibration in my feet and body and sounds same in the ear than front one , .. i rly miss that vibraiton effect with front one,.
( my floor is concret , and i add under the sub a folding bathroom towel or all the house vibrate, lol , ) i think with bad wooden floor, can be rly bad > unexpected vibration
the vibration have to be control by an isolation suits you, but i find the feeling of Down firing much better,
front firing is more versatile and go everywhere without any adaptation
i dont know if that make a difference too, but my sub are active, but i dont connect my speaker on it,, i connect my speaker to my amplifier , my sub are in a mono channel with is own gain control,
Down firing subs seem to make the most sense for subs that actually do excellent sub bass. With front firing sub the sound waves more closely approximate point source but down firing subs radiate the sound wave in an omnidirectional manner.
Incidentally, elephants communicate via infrasound because of its powerful, long range and omnidirectional nature.
For down firing subwoofer cut out a piece of birch wood or MFD, put the cutout wood under the subwoofer 🔊. Now this will help. 🤗👌✌️❤️
Elephants use infrasound because they get teased for communicating in a squeaky high voice like Fran Drescher.
I know it’s an old video, but man I really liked this video and appreciate your opinion! I’m going crazy right now trying to figure out what to do for a subwoofer because I’m limited on space up front and I have hard wood floors etc.
I have a couple of down firing subs. My biggest consideration was aesthetically they don't look like a big sub. Mine have an attractive wood finish and with a cut glass top they look like really sturdy end tables - SWMBO approved!!!
Another potential benefit from down firing is that the driver is somewhat protected from being knocked into / accidentally damaged. Although I would always use the "guard" the ones that would have come with my sub are more a type of cloth which has limited protection value but probably a higher aesthetic value.
I've got them on a suspended wooden floor so floor noise is an issue. But my previous forward facing ones were also fairly noisy too, in my case it is just a noisy room. My subs weigh 48Kg a piece and never seem to move.
I would probably choose forward firing for the benefits you outline and because I like seeing the drivers move. But aesthetics were a concern in my household so some compromise had to be made.
They do sound awesome though and I've gotten to like feeling the floor move in sympathetic response as well as the accompanying rattles!
+Dr Harvey I forgot about the driver being protected, good point! You can try isolation for the floor noise. I know it helps with front firing subs.
I have been using a downfiring sub for the last couple months. I just found that I can actually change the setup of the enclosure to orientate it to be front firing. I think I may try this out. With the current setup, it seems like I feel the bass even at times when I can't hear it. It's cool, but I imagine my neighbor doesn't enjoy it too much. Plus, I would prefer accurance over perceived output.
Side note...I think this is the first time I am seeing the internet browser app being used on a smart TV.
How a down firing sub. change to front firing by just positioning?
@@Bharatverse308 you place it downside on its side
I built my own custom isolation pad (1" MDF/1"Acoustic Dense Foam/1" MDF. Wrapped in carpet, 4 black yoga blocks as feet) for my Ultra X12. it Sounds really tight and i get no rattles throughout the house.
BUT
it was much much harder/sensitive to place(sub crawl) than my old front firing subwoofer. Contrary to popular belief. I am 100% happy with it, but i somewhat regret not going with a VTF2 mk5 or VTF3 mk5 because i was lead to believe that down firing subs are easier to place.
Cheap hockey pucks work well for isolation.
Thanks for this video...I have a SVS PC 2000 on wood floors and it sounds wonderful - I love it ....maybe because I have a basement and my home is soundproof so it does not affect any of my neighbors...However, my dilemma lies in my next challenge to go dual... I am wondering if I should get the PC 2000 Pro or upgrade to the PB 3000. Not sure if anyone has any suggestions?
Hi, been looking at a few of your videos.
Some great information there :-)
One question I had... I think I’m going to go for a front firing sub over a down firing.. the only placement I can have would mean it’s not firing straight towards me (it would be firing across the end of the room (at a 3 o’clock angle next to the front Left speaker).. how much do you think that affects sound? Do you still keep the advantage over the Down firing setup?
Guessing you looks some tactical feedback as the air isn’t getting physically pushed straight at you?
Better late than never. Down firing is best for corner placement as the bass will reflect of the walls eliminating standing waves aka more even bass. It can even amplify it. And don't worry you will feel tactile response granting your sub is powerful enough to pressurize the room. Of course ground will shake more, so you will feel like the dinosaur is really there :D
I'll have to look into the isolation pads. I just got a Klipsch bar 48 and the sub is super intense but it rattles my hardwood floors so much that it's difficult to enjoy
I also just got the Bar 48. I like the sub, but it a con about it is that it sub walks. Because of that, part of the wooden finish on the sub got chipped off from being in a corner spot (have a balcony door/side wood built of my place probably rammed into).
I might switch it out for The Sixes cause I'm using the bar 48 for music which is great (not TV, I know that's not it's intended use I'm still an amateur to this and know I should be getting stereo "speakers" instead) but I think the Sixes are louder, clear/precise in sound as the bar 48 along with their own control of the internal sub.
I made a foam isolation pad with material i have at work and it worked great. I ended up returning the klipsch anyway. Wasnt satisfied, even tried the Sony z9f after. I now have an onkyo reciever with polk t50 tower speakers and sub and i am so satisfied with these
Thanks for your input! Hopefully I'll get more out of The Sixes. Trying to keep it simple with a lot of impact until I later on in the future with a real setup. I'm staying in college apartment right now so nothing to crazy, but as long it exceeds my needs.
Oh boy, Iv'e just watched a vid from "Accustic Fields".
He explains why subs should not be placed on the floor, but lifted!
I note that yours are directly on the floor.
Take a peek, I'd like to know what you think.
Iv'e had a brief look at your link, saved it in my favs, will read in more depth a little later!
Being my birthday today, and officially old... It's a bit hectic here, just gone 9:00am, family
coming over later!
Frank...
+Frank James Happy birthday Frank!
I could see elevating subs, but you'd have to have a room that would allow it. As it is, there could be a better location for my subs, but this is what I can manage in my mixed use room. Fortunately, running multiple subs allows more flexibility when it comes to placement. My wife is pretty understanding given what I do on the channel, but elevating 175 pound subs is not a small chore, and I'm not sure it would look so good in my room. In a dedicated room it's worth trying.
And side subs? For example, I have a wooden floor. And I'm leaning towards SVS. But I'm considering Arendal as well.
And, while watching Arendal reviews, I've noticed, that some people turn it to the side, so the dynamic faces a listener. That's not a solution for me: if sub designed to be stay in that way - it should be in that way.
So, what are Your thoughts on side firing subs?
BTW, I have down firing sub with wooden floor right now... and it's quiet nice, because I do really feel bass more, than here. And I like it. But I'm in condo now, and feel bad for neighbors 🥺
The idea of a downfiring sub "sagging" because of gravity is stupid, because the magnet that moves the driver is way stronger than gravity and completely negates any influence gravity might have.
🐈
thank thank thank this what i needed to hear .. i have a front firing sub and i choose it at the time cause of concert and part of my floor was but now i have all wood floor so I was thinking to go down firing
Tbh your info is pretty sound, but it's hard to really take your "expertise" as valid seeing the room you're in. It's like trying to sell information while your experiences are based on a little shed with oversized subs (for sure) i know sounds arrogant. But it's what i see
What about combining two Subs? I already have down firing 8inch sub that I'm thinking about put it on the side of my room or in the back, behind my couch and I purchase new 12 inch front firing sub and place at the front where my center channel speaker.
I filled tontine ( Dacron) half full on my down firing sub. But on test tone on my Pioneer vsx 422 ? Sounds great. But on movie? It sounds gutless as a sub. Specs are 125 watts into 8 ohms. My Yamaha is 75 watts RMS into 8 ohms? I'm thinking to use Yamaha A-520 on pre out and hook up front speakers and sub? Because I Max volume on Pioneer VSX 422 is 80. I have to crank to 50 or more to get decent sound. On Yamaha I couldn't crank more than just under half. I'm used to using the old rule of Max volume adjustment to halfway? Any reply appreciated. Cheers from Australia 🙂👍👍👍. Subbed and liked 👍
Im gonna try a up firing sub because nobody has talked about it.
In the truth, which one are better sub: SVS PB-2000 or PC-2000?
Maybe a 2" thick 16" square concrete "tile" would change the sound? I have 2ea 10" sumiko subs that are downfiring with a front facing passive radiator, the wood floor (2x8" old fire joists) has heavy carpeting on it.
does a Downfiring sub give you more tactical feel. like Shaking the sofa more? I have concrete floors
If you want tactical feel, you should use bass shakers. More shaking and less neighbor complaints! Use them alongside subwoofer of course
I have hardwood floors on concrete and I am very happy with my floor-firing subs. It is important to invest in some good isolation feet for your subwoofer. Don’t go for the cheapest ones.
Front firing subs can be oriented in many directions and is more versatile for integrating into your system.
Which is better for good bass side firing or down firing?
I would think that opposite pointing drivers would cancel out the drivers movements ; this would make it motionless and smooth , just like inline 4 , 6 or 8 cylinder engines ! 🤔😁🧐
Thanks for the video! Considering a down firing and wanted some info. Not too crazy about the idea, but there's someone selling one in the classified for a nice price. I just like to see the driver, and exactly how much exertion it is under. Moved into an apartment off a house now with a carpet-covered wood floor. It's above a garage, so no one to worry about there, but I do have people in the main house. . . wondering how much more vibrations will make it to them bc of the down firing design. . .
+DarthHater100 Isolation is a good idea regardless in your scenario. sub101.link/Isolation (affiliate link)
Down firing will cause a little more vibration, but not insanely so. You have to listen for it, it's not terrible, but it does have an impact.
What if you put it on a granite slab, like a tooling/surface plate?
Can you do a video on the Pc-4000
hello there ...i want to ask ...my sub has the 10 inch driver at the front and the reflex port at the back ....so is that bad ..? should it be better if the port and the 10 inch driver are in the front ??????? does the port make a better punch if it is at the front side ?
Hi guys, love your stuff as i'm getting back into HT. Having some problems setting back up
but i'll get it figured out.
very useful, thank you.
Thanks for the vid. Seems pretty common sense to me.
Thanks for watching!
Is true that downfiring subs are harder to localizate the Bass?
"localizate" i like it...
I have a down firing sub that I have to lay on its side in the corner of my room due to the size. Which side would you face the port?
Question not related to this video but I notice you have your bookshelves on top of your subs was that for the video or do you really have it like that and if so, how has that worked for you?
The front firing sub is cool looking? remember the purpose of the sub,"to produce sound without noticing that its coming from the sub"
Did you previously have a pair of the SVS SB-1000?
I've seen soundroom experts who recommend front, center, & rear, center placement of two subs. Their analysis appears to be based on this posting same conclusion that direct is better than reflected sound.
Good feedback, thank you. By chance do you have an article I could check out? I'd be interested in taking a look at that analysis.
Totally disagree with this video. Who has a bare concrete floor in lr or den. If it is a hardwood floor there is usually concrete pad underneath. Where's the comparison with rugs?. I use a powered Yamaha downward firing sub which dispersed sound in 4 directions. Very natural and blends well.
john gallagher Some houses are built without concrete subfloors. This house is a prime example of that. If I stomp on my floor, the floor itself makes noise, unlike a virtually inert concrete subfloor.
In a situation like mine, forward firing subs with good isolation makes a noticeable difference. I wish my subfloor was less active.
Downfiring meana the air intake is down or the rubber part?sorry i have no much knowledge
I subscribed.. because you explained it well
I am at a pickle between the PC2k and PB2k. With the isolation feet on PC2k would it have a different sound signature on carpet flooring?
Also another question.
Does the rear port on the PC2k cause location issues, like distance from a wall or corner? If I place it near a corner would it cancel certain nulls in the room?
Thanks in advance. Looking to go with a dual setup.
+jhugo1986 With the rear ports, I didn't notice any issues. The 2 subs do have a slightly different sound, but I can't say how much of that was my floor and how much of it was the sub. I couldn't speculate how much of an impact carpeting might have, but I wouldn't expect a notable negative impact.
The takeaway is that while I preferred the front firing design in my room, I wouldn't be unhappy with the down-firing subs if that's what fit better. My floor is very active and noisy. The better your floor is, the less of a problem it should be.
Nice setup I bet those subs really rock
+Andre Durr Thanks, they really do!! The Accountant was pretty impressive. Kicks you in the chest.
hey subwoofer 101 i just took the bluetooth boombox that i just posted on my channel and faced the 4 front facing mini woofers into the floor on a wood floor(carpet) and it seems like 3 times more bass im not kidding....any comments or recommendations
Down firing seams to shake my wood floor more and better protects the speaker from kids, pets etc...
When you say the cables are great for getting rid of pesky hums, I assume you are saying they do a good job of replacing cords that cause pesky hums? Or do they really get rid of hums?
I have a hum out of a headphone jack on an old Westinghouse that I would love to eliminate without needing a dac to use coaxial out of it.
What is that iPad thing on the left of the screen for
You mention Port Noise in this video and the previous one as well without getting into it much. I'm wondering if that is to be expected with a ported sub or if it's something that you don't have with the SBS subs. You describe it like you encounter it from time to time. I got my first ported Sub, Q Acoustics Q2070si a year ago now and I hear from time to time what I could only describe as port noise around the 30 to 38hz range (it doesn't go really much lower unfortunately). Doesn't bother me the slightest if the whole movie is very loud, but from time to time, there is a silent moment with heavy LFE effect (especially recent ones : Force Awakens, Wonder Woman, Horror movies in general) and that's the only thing I can hear, takes me right out of the experience. I'm just wondering if that's something that will happen to any ported sub owner in some form or if I just have a crappy sub. Thanks for the help. I would love a video on the topic to learn more about it, and how to reduce it :) Great job on your videos, keep it up!
Thanks, and I do intend to cover the topic. Any ported sub will produce some port noise when it hits its limits, but it's all relative. Your sub is doing it around 30-38 hertz, where the subs on "The List" will typically only generate port noise WAY down low, from scenes like the Edge of Tomorrow Opening scene, which will test any sub, killing some. It's a series of low tones that are all under 25 hertz and very heavy. The more you turn it up, the more likely you are to hear it, but some subs require you to get up close to hear it, which is a good thing. With variable port subs, having 1 port plugged increases the likelihood of getting port noise.
Aside from a few scenes like that one, port noise is a rarity on "The List": www.subwoofer101.com/best-subwoofers/
Many subs will generate port noise much more easily, and higher up the frequency range, which as you describe, robs you of the enjoyment. Force Awakens has some very serious deep tones, yet no port noise from any of the subs I've heard from "The List", but I'm sure they can be pushed to that point if you really try.
Every sub has it's limits, and when it gets to that limit, port noise is one of the signs. In regular listening for me, that scene has been the only way I've been able to experience port noise, everything else has been noise free as far as I can tell, when it comes to "The List". That is one of the drawbacks to my gain hack though, you're more likely to hit the subwoofer limits sooner.
It all depends on the port velocity, tuning, and physical smoothness of the port. Port noise is literally air turbulence from the port distorting the sound coming from the port. The air velocity in a port is going to be highest at, or slightly below, the tuning frequency of the port. Most commercial subs are tuned in the low 30Hz range (roughly), so low 30's is likely where you'll hear port noise from most off-the-shelf subs.
I build my own speakers and, for my builds, I like to keep the port velocity under 20m/s with as smooth a port as I can possibly make. I use port flairs at least on the outside, if not on both ends to help minimize the turbulence as the air moves in and out of the port as well. Most commercial subs will allow for port velocities to run closer to 30m/s because that allows for a much smaller port to stuff in the box. This works in most cases, but as noted, it can sometimes create noise when pushing the sub near its limit at the tuning frequency.
I've never had a sub or listen to one before.
I'm wondering if its better to get a front firing sub on a carpet floor?
I would think I would feel the pressure on me better than down firing sub.
Personally, I would go with a more traditional front firing subwoofer unless you needed the down firing subwoofers to save space, or you prefer the look, reduced cost, etc...
I wasn't able to try them on concrete subfloor, my only experience was on wood subfloor. There may not be a big difference on concrete.
I'd want carpet vs hard floor anyway to cut down on the first reflection of the main speakers. I didn't evaluate the carpet effect on the down firing subwoofers, so I can't say for sure, but I see carpeting as a positive in general.
You should check out subs from "The List" for subwoofers that go STRONG down to 20 hertz, the bottom of the human hearing range. It really is transformative, and very rare, most subs are relatively weak under 30-40 hertz.
www.subwoofer101.com/best-subwoofers/
Any thoughts on sealed subs, or ported subs?
I have a REL T9i ... 10" front firing cone with a 10" passive down firing radiator.
Can you or someone in the comment section tell me how a passive radiator works, and why they are fitted!
I like the front firing cone, but not really sure why ... lol
My 12" Velodyne sub, is a front firing cone with two quite large down firing ports!
I want SVS subs, but have got to save hard to get them... one day I hope!
Oh, and I have a well insulated/damped, trational wooden floor with about a foot of cavity!
My subs are good, but SVS are wall splitters... lol
Also my hifi system defined where we live, I have to have a detatched house.
How stupid, that one has to chose what house one lives in around the bloody hifi ... lol
+Frank James Here you go, this was my experience. www.subwoofer101.com/ported-vs-sealed/
Thanks for the quick responce, will check that out Sub 101.
Frank...
From the UK.
PS. What may interest you is I'm a retired carpenter/builder.
I am currently planning and designing my new listening room, hopefully to start next summer!
It will be about 500sq ft, so quite large by UK standards.
I am currently researching accustic treatments, but it will have a traditional wooden floor! Apart from being warmer, and easier to heat!
However, I have a few ideas of my own, which I'm working on to!
Also, was designing my own speakers yesturday, something Iv'e always wanted to do, and finally have the time to
dedicate to this project!
The building is exiting, but what's more exiting, is what to put in the room once built!
Being a skilled carpenter/builder, I can save around £45,000... on the build!
Rel does outperform SVS without even trying, problem is RELS are expensive very...very expensive. I had the stadium III not much after that i had that would beat that sub.
To all people with wood floors and a down firing sub: get a concrete or stone square plate with thin layer of cloth (as thin as possible) underneath to avoid scratching the wood floor.
This helped me a lot and its amazing.
I am by no means a Audiophile but I know what I like and for me I like the way a Down Firing Subwoofer sounds vs a Front Firing Subwoofer for a Home Theater system. The system I currently have in my family room is a Onkyo 7.2 but I am running it as a 5.1 with Polk Audio TSi 400 mains, TSi C20 center and TSi 100 rears my sub is a older Klipsch KSW-15 Down Firing that is AWESOME. My family room is fairly large 24' x 26' x 9' that is carpeted, my TV sit in a big entertainment cabinet that 8' wide with mains at each end with the sub in behind the right speaker. What I've noticed with the Down Firing Klipsch is when watching something with a lot of explosions & effects (beach landing in Saving Private Ryan or Godzilla stomping around) that the bass really fills the room and you can feel it in your body without being so directional. When I tried a Polk Audio Front Firing Sub it didn't seem to fill the room and I could pinpoint where the Sub was, a buddy has a very similar system only he has a Front Firing Sub and has along with others have repeatedly commented how much better mine sounds with the Klipsch. With that being said I am putting together a 5.1 system in a bedroom that's 14' x 14' and can't decide if I should get a Down or Front Firing Sub or what size and power, all the speakers in this room are Klipsch RP Bookshelf series if I stick with Klipsch and a Down Firing Sub the only one the make is a 50w (150w peak) 8".???? Does anyone have a suggestion on a Sub Front or Down Firing, keep in mind the room size ?
Running dual subs reduces the ability to localize, and several other huge benefits.
Check out my list of subwoofers (see description), ANY two of those (matched is ideal) will give you a whole new experience, front firing or down firing. More depth, and an amazing movie experience. Music too, but the movie experience would shock you. Duals make a big difference though.
@@Subwoofer101 Thanks! I've never ran 2 Subs and have some questions, because of current health issues I am unable to travel to local stores to demo things in person so I'm having to rely on the help of others along with doing online research. I am going to describe the bedroom so you have a better idea of what I have to work so f it turns out to be lengthy I apologize, this system will be mainly used for movies and video gaming with Very little music listening.
My TV is mounted in the center of one wall with a closet to the right side corner on the opposite wall the bed is centered, my receiver and several gaming consoles are all in a stand which I had to place in the closet. Because of the room size and the furniture floor space is very limited, using 2 Subs I have 2 maybe 3 different options on placement. Option 1 is to have 1 Sub in the closet behind the stand but off to the side so it's not completely blocked off, the other Sub would go to the left of the bed caddy corner of the one in the closet. Options 2 & 3 require rearranging and finessing, Option 2 would be to have both Subs to the left & right of the bed in the corners, Option 3 is 1 in closet and the other to the right of the bed in the corner which would put both Subs on one side of the room (the right side if you're facing the TV).
Using the 2 Subs how should I have them adjusted on the phase set 0-90-180? Should both be set the same or have one at 0 and the other at 90 or 180, 90 & 180? Again being a bedroom system that I don't need to shake the neighbors and limited floor space what size would you recommend 2 8" 2 10" or 2 12" and Wattage? Again THANKS !!!
I've seen frequency response measurements from having a subwoofer box in a car in various directions, and it's barely any different. Probably the same case with indoor, but the difference for the neighbors might be different from the vibration transferred through the feet and the floor
The trick with down firering subwoofers is to place a square rug underneath the sub sligtly larger than the subs area and you will see how much betterbit is than a front fireing its a thousand times better than a front fireing
You are wrong
A thousand times better?? Wow! How did I ever miss that? I can't believe I was so incredibly wrong, thank you for correcting me!! 🙃
Seriously though, it has more to do with your floor than anything else.
If your floor transfers a lot of sound energy, like an old wood floor, you might get more noise and have a sense of it being "better", when you're actually getting more distortion, not ideal. Louder doesn't always mean better.
If you have a concrete floor with thick carpet, it almost doesn't matter. There is virtually no sound energy transferred into the floor.
What's best for wood floors and a crawlspace. 13×11 room
Some people like the way the wood floor resonates with down firing, but I like a front firing on isolation myself for wood subfloors.
Subwoofer 101...what about a down firing sub on a wooden floor which has been laid on a concrete ground floor ?
That's basically a concrete subfloor, but a stomp test will tell you how much sound you get out of the floor. With a foam underlay, it may sound like a basketball court, so front firing might still be the way to go. A rug might be a good idea regardless to reduce reflections. ruclips.net/video/JMwxa762agU/видео.html
Ok thanks for the info !
Why not both?
I have a craw space under my house. I first had the pc-2000 in a 10x10x10 room. I got the pc because I don't have lots of space for a box. I felt it was very weak and I was not impressed for that price. I then upgraded to the pc 13 ultra. I now feel I got what I wanted but it's not blowing me away like I hoped for. I told svs maybe it's being absorbed by the wooden floors and the walls. They didn't think so. I believe this sub should be knocking picture frames down and more but best way to describe it I get window shutters rattling at its peak. It's great sub, but I still wanted more. My point is I always believe that the craw space and wooden floors were to blame. Svs head tech said maybe because I have no center speaker the avr isn't allowing enough bass.
You know, I do think there is something to the no center thing. I just did that in my tiny room, and adding the additional speakers allowed Dolby Music to kick in, giving much better bass. The PB-16's came off a little anemic as well, which I KNOW is not the problem. Adding the center really woke them up, I was surprised. Sounded exactly like what you're describing. Dual PB-16's in an 11x11 room should kick serious butt, but it didn't happen until I hooked up the center. That's on the Denon X2000, the X-6200 sounds healthy in Stereo mode.
I wouldn't have thought, and I think it depends on the AVR. I wonder if you can run a phantom center and crank up the "Width" setting to get better response? A true center would be better, but maybe that could get some bass back? The PC-2000 should have rocked your world, and the PC-13 should kick even harder. I do think it's your AVR more than your wood floor, or at least a setting. Which AVR are you running? Have you updated it?
Subwoofer 101 I have the denon x3300 105watt. I did the Odyssey and svs helped tweak the rest of the settings. I think the bass I'd set around 3 on the Avr and -5db on the sub. I got the ultra bookshelves so maybe I'll have to consider the center.
This would make an excellent video if you could find out with evidence .😁
Well Freud's dream came true bro.Everybody,from a kid to old people can legally buy and consume coke,at any small shop around the world!
Ain't nothing crazier than a man who drinks kool aid
What is you opinion for the subwoofer on carpet?
Good, better than hard floor usually.
@@Subwoofer101 I have 2 10" front firing subs under each tower in the front and one 12" down firing behind my recliner and couch and setting the crossover at 40 Hz specifically for being a floor and seating rumbler :) seems like the floor is perfectly at the same resonate freq. and really ads a new dimension in the immersive experience. One note on carpeted floors, some of the the down firing subs have these pointed shaped feet that they sit on... those will just sink threw the carpet and padding esp. with the heavier subs and choke off the air gap and the driver.. I cut 4 3" square x 1/2" thick wood pads and placed them under each spiked foot and this keeps the air gap where it should be .. made a very notable difference, I had to back the gain off a few notchs..
I have same ultra center ultra book shelf there awesome speakers :)
Very nice indeed, I like them!
Hey Great video man! 👍🏽
I think you are getting way fewer views than you actually deserve.
I appreciate that!
I don't know much at all. But my opinion is maybe it's because he keeps the still frame the whole video. Viewers need their attention grabbed not only by the knowledge you give but the visual appeal
@@randall96 different tastes. His commentary is the only i listen to. any other reviewer and i would already skip through the video. Might not be the same for everyone like u said but i just love his style
If you live in a high rise apartment, you're actually going to be dealing with wood-over-concrete floors. (I should also add that owning a sub is not recommended, as the building management for those tend to be especially uppity.) Anyway, I didn't like the way my audio sounded in there, no matter what. I became a headphones guy.
Can I turn a down firing 90 degrees to become a front firing?
Usually, yes.
@@Subwoofer101 Thanks, I have a desktop speaker with a down-firing subwoofer. I'm thinking of suspending the subwoofer under my table and turn it 90 degree so it becomes a front or side firing instead.
so
down firing for nearfield and carpet arround
and front firing for home theater and carpet in front
Front firing with isolation on wood subfloors, less of an issue and more freedom of choice with concrete. I would still do down firing on wood if floor space was tight, but I would prefer front firing if it was an option.
I have hard wood floors and my base from down firing sub is awful
what do you think of wharfedale subs..?i can get a new 18 inch 600 watt one for $639.99thanks
+john smith It doesn't look like it's a very "deep" subwoofer. Believe it or not, the PB-1000 should have a deeper presentation, despite being 10" subwoofer and 300 watts RMS, 700 watts peak. 2 of those should give a greater range of bass. The wharfedale will probably have a higher Max SPL, but there are more important things to consider, like the shape of the response curve. In the description, there's a link for the Best Subwoofers List. Any 2 matching subwoofers from "The List" will deliver outstanding deep bass.
I didn't get the link for the subwoofer list..can you resend it plz ..?thanks
I like SVS but its sad that all yours video turn in one long advert of svs, all independent youtubers turn in paid fanclub.
so in other words when I make one put studs on both sides so if you don't like it down-firing put it up right got ya ;)
What is the difference between a well “Stringed Wood Floor(2x6 on edge 12 inch centres) and Concrete?
Mass, so if your wood floor is Heavy, it will not vibrate and transfer Sound Energy.
So your conclusion is half there but your Scientific Knowledge needs a bit more “Research”.
So I didn't cover the less than 1% of people with truly high mass, solid wood floors that are truly noise free. Really? That's what you're trying to troll me on?
I get complaints that my videos are too long, so I simplify when I can.
Stomp on your floor. If the floor itself makes substantial noise, as mine does (NOT a solid, high mass wood floor), then it's probably better to go with front firing subs and isolation, or at least be aware of the problem.
If you have a very well built, truly quiet wood subfloor that makes no noise from the floor itself or surrounding walls when you stomp on it, then it doesn't matter.
If you are trolling me on semantics, I could easily troll you right back. A high mass wood floor, poorly designed, fastened, and constructed, could still be noisy. It could even be designed in such a fashion that it's even noisier. Does such a thing exist? Would it really even matter if it did?
The Tacoma Narrows bridge failed because resonant frequencies weren't properly taken into account. Pretty substantial mass I would say. Not so much about sound, but it's easy to get into the weeds and argue about unintended consequences of structural design, despite a large mass.
Wood and concrete conduct sound differently, especially in practice. In practice, generally speaking, with the same flooring material (carpet, tile, etc...) a concrete subfloor will usually be less problematic for bass conduction/transmission than a wood subfloor.
I would joke that next time I will cite all references and publish a study with peer reviewed findings, but I might be taken literally.
I'm just trying to make things a little easier for the layperson, rather than trying to please every potential antagonist that has an internet connection.
www.researchgate.net/publication/235218769_Wood_or_concrete_floor_-_A_comparison_of_direct_sound_insulation
I notice a ny giants made into a trianhle on your wall. Whats with the triangle dude ? My studies and understanding of seeing all these triangles in movies tv and everywhere is for a reason and its not good...so will like to hear ur reason of making a giants team logo into a triangle
+Douglas Jones Triangles have symbolic meaning throughout history. The pyramids of Egypt and central America might be linked by a history we are unaware of, or maybe engineers of the time all figured out that building straight up with stone would crumble, while the pyramid shape allowed taller stone structures.
I suspect that there wasn't any connection, other than the laws of physics. People figured a lot of things without computers back then, so I think it's plausible that people from opposite sides of the Earth figured out the same thing.
It's also plausible that there was sea travel that wasn't recorded, or the records were lost. I give a lot of credit to our ancestors.
As for my triangle, it's not so interesting. It's my Giant Anthem 29er mountain bike frame. I cracked it, and when they replaced the frame, I kept it and got it signed by some of the team riders. Carl Decker dominated Downieville for 6 years on that bike.
There is no connection to the football team, nor any symbolism. I have fibromyalgia, so I don't get to ride very often, but I hang it there for inspiration to ride. It's a conversation starter for sure.
I actually talk about the bike frame in my next video. I'm not a Free Mason or a member of the Trilateral Commission. Just a mountain biker who doesn't get out on the trail as often as I would like.
I’ve got no room for Another pb2000. can I mix it with a pc2000
It will work fine. Running dual PC-2000's rather than mixed would be that extra 1% better, but they are close enough that a PB-2000 and PC-2000 should work fine together.
Because of the driver orientation, the sound from the PB-2000 will get to you before the PC-2000 if place the same distance away. The sound has to bounce off of the floor before it travels to you, where the PB-2000 is more of a direct path, so it takes less time for the sound to reach you. You might see this if your AVR allows for different subwoofer distances, your PC-2000 will probably show up an extra 0.5 to 1.5 feet further than the PB-2000 ends up at.
Long story short, not a big deal.
Subwoofer 101 thanks a million! We definitely need dual subs no question about it. this is the closest I’m going to get.
Down firing rules! all others are crap!
Nope. No way! Front firing is the only way to go. No exceptions!!
🙃
@@Subwoofer101
Which type subwoofer enclosure better for home audio sir
Port or bandpass or sealed
Thanks
It's hard to take advice from someone that doesn't put there subs in the corners and uses fucking bookshelf speaker's as your front mains.
Sounds concrete might work great as a sub enclosure material.
heavy and harder to make
There is Definitely a sound difference between a downfiring, rear facing, front facing, and upfiring subwoofers!
upfiring?
Anything that annoys the neighbors im into it.
I don't know about the performance difference, but front firing sure looks cooler.
Some people really dig the cylinder subs, they make quite a statement. Like giant monuments of bass!
Definitely look cooler, but in my opinion don't sound as good.
Idk my pc4000 hits hard af
Down firing subs create a pressure node between the floor and the cone the result is a smeared sloppy bass note. Sometimes down firing can sound like more bass because the pressure nodes can create all kinds of harmonics not desired. Secondly small large excursion subs create a lot of mechanical noise that is exacerbated by the floor. With subwoofers size matters a large cone just cruising along is far better then a small large excursion sub near xmax. A waterfall plot will clearly show why you never down fire a sub. I’m guessing people didn’t take physics your amp rapidly pushes the cone downward now you have mass in motion it’s going to be much more difficult for your amp to pull that back up against gravity. Accumulated delay issues the list goes on and on. At very low SPL levels all these issues are less evident.
That made no sense at all. Novice
Michael Moore harmonics of what exactly? The cone is 2 inches from the floor. The wavelength of sub frequencies are larger than the room. Please link to the water fall plot comparing down and front firing.
The weight of the cone is negligible compared to the force acting on it by the magnet. It’s not zero but is it audible? Doubtful.
most pointless video you've made....' downward sub bad'....but 'that may not be true'...????
I hate down firing
Your speaker set up is terrable...why done you seperate youe speakers more through out your room.
+Jay Boogie Terrible? :) The speakers are placed as far apart as they can be without being in the hallway or right against the wall. I appreciate your concern though. This is a mixed use room, so it also serves as a family/living room.
Subwoofer 101 they are all right next to each other...their supposed to be spread out through out the room not on top of each other..y would you pay for all thet with out setting it up properly to have a full surround sound effect...you should stop making videos and watch some on how to do a proper set up
terrible, don't, your and throughout...
Andrew Hovey ok...who cares shit dont need to be spelled right to get your point across...the fact that you put that means you have no time on your hands and you probably live alone and are a loser..
Andrew Hovey and the misspelled words are obviously typing errors..which proves my point about you...