Thanks for pointing out that almost every fighter in WWII could carry bombs, and that adding that capability to the 262 was simple. I tried to make that point in a comment on the Military Aviation History channel and was assaulted by legions of the uninformed and un-inform-able.
@@jamesmorgan2465 Yes, but not sure how you relate that to the narrative that adding pylons for bombs delayed introduction of the aircraft into combat.
It wasn't very well suited to the role, though. But what I think is more interesting, is when you look at just how many different versions of this plane were either built or on the drawing board. I mean, why spend resources in that way, when you're strapped for both time, skilled labour and raw materials? It may not have delayed the plane as such, but I think they'd been better off focusing on producing as many of the fighter version as possible, and forgetting about the rest. Thankfully, they didn't.
Let me help you this way: the early variant of the P-47 was quickly fitted to carry bombs and it was not big deal exactly with with the Me 262A as both were installed on strong points....
Another fascinating aspect is that the Germans showed the plane and shared the relevant technology (especially the jet engines) with their ally Japan, which produced a very similar plane, the Nakajima Kikka. The Kikka was smaller, with foldable wings so as to be able to be hidden in caves and such, but is strikingly similar. Japan first flew it the day after Hiroshima was bombed and had dozens more in production when the war ended.
One of the books I found has a detailed list of claims specifying each type shot down and the Me pilot who scored the kill. There are 442 of them. 60 percent are heavy bombers.
This plane, was up to the end of the 40 s, the best and fastest jet fighter of the world. Much faster and better as the p80. Do a research for HOWARD HUGHES, AND HIS ME 262! And I say it as a German. Hitler was a British agent. Dunkirk! Stalingrad! The me 262! And the nero burning terrain order at the end of war, to let German people starving after the lost war. The order to destroy all of the rest not destroyed by allies Infrastructure, including the power plant, water , corn miles!
@@m.b.blenkoblanka4167 false: the P80 shooting star was +50km/h faster than the Me 262...the me 262 was NEVER copied because had many design faults, one of them did limit the maximum speed, uncontrolable over 950km/h in dive (controlls freezing).
@@m.b.blenkoblanka4167 All the other jet fighters were better tbh. The Meteors did very well and had a decent service life. Me262 had several problems, but was decent enough ig.
@@imperialinquisition6006 omg. You have no idea. Of course, the me 262 got many problems causing the war situation! But did you do a research? Howard Hughes!? Me262? The p80 and others where be so badly , that they think of, to build the me262 again in series! As the p80! And , the HG version of the me262 was still build! HG for high speed! With arrow wings. It was much better than the me 263 formally version. Omg. Sometimes I think, you Americans without robbery stolen and kidnapping German Hightechnolgy, patents, science's, USA would be a 5 level fail state country.
There was an (Messerschmitt Me 262 A-1a "Weiße 3" of the JG 7) JG7=fighter squadron, which had to perform an emergency landing due to low fuel at (Dübendorf) which was a Military Air Base in Switzerland at 08.46 AM on 25.4.1945 The Swiss Air Force examined the (ME 262 A-1a 1a "Weiße 3") completely. The german Pilot was (Hans Guido Mutke, Oberfähnrich) It then was handed over in 1957 by the Swiss Government to the German aviation department of the Museum in München where it is on display today.
I had a chance to caress one of these babies along with a P-51 and B-17 at an air show in Georgetown, TX and the first thing I noticed was the flush rivets. This baby was smooth.
Thanks for the comment! These are sounds from IL-2 Great Battles. I believe most of them or all are synthetic but then again, many of these airplanes don't exist in flyable condition.
sure wish there were more specimens of this fascinating and historic aircraft still around for aviation museums got to see an actual remaining specimen at a museum where it was on loan - to me it was one of the top exhibits at the time
Agreed. Often, you hear these stories how many aircraft were scrapped as soon as they were not needed anymore. Few people at that moment think about preservation for future enthusiasts (such as us).
There were 5 replicas built in Everett Wash, 4 flying and one static, that used the GE 85 engine and one static, no engines built. Plus Paul Allens Flying Heritage museum Paine Field Everett Wash, has an original with rebuilt modified engines that was doing taxi test just before Paul died. I had hear the Museum was sold but thats all !!
The so-called Miracle Weapon was shown to Hitler first time in August 1943 he said to Willy Messerschmitt! That's the Machine I am gonna break the British air terror with. One of the mistakes was that Hitler not being an aviation expert wanted the Me262 to be a Bomber and act as one, not a Fighter Jet that was a complete miscast and in that role, of a Bomber, it could not really play to their strengths. In my personal opinion, I would say the main advantage of the Me 262 was its speed of a max 870 km/h (Mach 0.86) faster than a P-51 no other allied plane was as fast as the Me262 she was also called the -51 Mustang Killer. On the other hand, the disadvantages were the Me 262 needed a runway with at least 1300 meters in length for take-offs and landings so she was an easy target for the Allie fighters when spotted. At low speed the performance was poor the Me262 wanted to be flown fast and finally, her range was limited to 1000km = 621.371 Miles
The Mustang killer is definitely true. Their most frequent target was of course. B-17 but there were about 70 claims of P-51s as well. Hitler's desire for a bomber was probably motivated by a strong (and false) thinking that Germany had a good chance of winning.
Thank you for all that. My first love is DC-3 and ME 262 also mighty interesting. In both cases compelling aesthetics follow form and function. I follow a few of these flying now, at least one possibly replicated.
Even if the plane had been put into operation on its original date, at best it would have set back the USAAF and RAF bomber command by a year or 18 months at most, considering the British had their own jet fighter the Meteor ready and the Americans had developed the P-80 in 1944 to counter it.
One overlooked design detail of the Me 262 is the small Riedel starter motor located in the nose of each engine. It could be started using the pull cord ring located in the bullet nose of the jet engine. Much the same as pull starting a lawn mower. It could also be started using the 24 volt electric starter. This was a 2 stroke air-cooled twin cylinder engine that would be used to start Jumo 004 jet engine.
Yeah that was really cool! I would guess they had quite a few issues mounting bombs, Mainly because it messes up COG. You also need the space and hardpoint strength, which they would have had to add in. Then factor in something the US stuggled with, at higher speeds your releasing can be a lot more complicated considering the air pressure. Making sure they aren't going to fly back up into the plane was probably an issue beyond just release. Then take off and landing most likely were difficult, as well as proper training on how to handle them. Though it was polish to the brass on the titanic at that point. 1500 frames are impressive but like you said, due to how they were made, to actually get them assembled by that point from so many different regions would have been near impossible. But they had been operating that way with 109s for a while, I wonder if indirectly some of the ways were ruined as time passed. Nice work M8!
The Meteor was launch~in same time (first Meteor squadron was created 2 months before the first me 262 staffel) the me 262 and not "before war"...was a bit use for patrols over west germany debut 1945, one german jet bomber (Arado AR234) was shot down by a Meteor...
In order for the 262 to have had a major impact on the war it would have needed to have been produced in quantity. In my opinion 6 months would not have done that as by that time the allies had gained air superiority and the manufacturing facilities would have been become primary targets of bomber command.
Interesting fact number 6: The early prototypes had a "tail dragger" landing gear configuration. They had to change that to a "tricycle" configuration because the exhaust from the engines was angled down towards the runway in a tail dragger configuration and it had a tendency to set the runway on fire.
Actually during early tests the aircraft struggled to take off. Test pilot touched the brakes, the tail lifted up and he then gunned it and took off. All jets subsequently have used tricycle gear to plane out the wings. German planes rarely took off paved runways in the end, the planes landing gear was very robust.
and the test pilots had to break to lift the tail, not much loved by them. The RLM strictly was against the "american invention"tricycle landing gear.changing the design and Hitlers wish to have the "Blitzbomber" delayed production for more than one year.
The Germans had developed the turbojet before WWII. The tech, airplanes, metallurgy, pilot training needed to be done before the war started. Needed large quantities of Ni, Cr, Tungsten to produce hi power turbojet that is long lasting and fuel efficient.
Here's another fact that gets overlooked. In Italy was several P-80 fighters that were as fast, and could out handle the 262. After the war the P-80s were stationed in Germany. Why wouldn't the US not allow the P-80 planes to go into combat, and that died with Hap Arnold.
I seem to remember that they deployed some of them to Italy but they were not successful for some reason. Maybe that deserves a video of its own, thanks for reminding me!
No , it would have delayed the War by a year possibly two , but in the end the US might at Wartime production was unequaled. We were lend leasing War material to France before they fell (P36 Hawk ) Great Britain ( Planes, Tanks , Guns ) and the USSR (P39 Airacobra )
Not necessarily. Allies had jet technology as well and had the situation been more difficult for them, they would have developed it much faster. Economic might of the Allies would have prevailed eventually.
They actually built some replicas with (more) modern General Electric engines. Engine reliability and increased flexibility would have helped for sure. But aerodynamics probably had its limit regardless extra power.
The Meteor f.3 was the more useful aircraft. As the aviation author Alfred Price reminds us, that during the final months of World War 2, _"Allied fighters were able to shoot down, on average, just over two German jet fighters for each Allied fighter or bomber that was destroyed by the jets."_ That's not a great average for a jet plane flown by the hand-picked elite of the Luftwaffe. The 262 was unmaneuverable, and fragile. The 262 had better straight line acceleration if the throttles were not opened too quickly, then the engines would cut out. The 262 was an inferior weapons system, owing to the unreliability of its engines and guns, compounded by its poor manoeuvrability. The Meteor didn't blow up when you tried to accelerate, and the cannons generally fired when you wanted them to. Those things are pretty important in a combat aircraft. The Meteor f.4 blew away the 262. It came out just as the war ended. The f.4 set world speed records.
Meteors operational history is quite boring compared to Me-262. They shot down a few V-1s and destroyed some aircraft on the ground I think. Me-262 shot down hundreds of aircraft and was shot down in the hundreds. Some people might be into theoretical discussions and 'what ifs', but personally I am always more interested in actual experience of an aircraft, no matter how flawed it might be.
@@showtime112 You are right. The so called mind blowing 262 was was marked as piston engines planes were shooting it down at an amazing 2 to 1 rate. The Meteor was boring? Look at the dizzying rate of progress from introduction until the end of the war. And then after it set world speed records and even broke its own record. How boring do you want it?
An excellent book to read is Duels in the Sky by Capt. Eric M Brown RN A Fleet Air Arm fighter and test pilot during WW2 who actually flew many, many types of aircraft including the ME-262 and did a comprehensive assessment of aircraft and their capabilities against each other.
The Me 262 was to late for combat against the 8th Army Air force and 15 Army Air force in early 1944, the Germans were losing the oil fields and refinery out of business and German pilots killed and wounded.
Not exactly. The engines lasted longer probably because Czech pilots flew them in peacetime and were able to fly more 'gently', unlike Luftwaffe pilots operating under wartime pressure.
@@rickkubik6666 By Jan 1945 The Meteor had evolved with the Mk 3 with a top speed of 495MPH , reliable R.R. Derwent jet engines with a service interval of 100 + hours and by mid 1945 the Mk 4 was exceeding ALL the performance data of the 262.. I agree of course that the 262 when it first arrived was superior to the Mk 1 Meteor
Although the Erprobungskommando was theoretically only a test unit, they even operated the Me-262 in combat and I think this can really count as the beginning of operative flights for this airplane.
@@rickkubik6666 was not slow long time, the F4 version (longer fuselage + stronger engines) was ready in mid 1945 and was FASTER than the me 262, and the US P80 shooting star was still ready in same time and was faster than the M 262...
Me-262 also flew for the Soviets after the War, together with FW-190Doras and others. They also used the 262 Engines in their Mig-9 Jet Prototypes and later their own Copies in the Service Mig-9's. Wich was inferior to the 262 Airframe in many ways. Only the later Rolls Royce Design made the Mig-15 surpass the Me-262 in every detail but firepower. Althoug the single 37mm made Tank Kills in Korea possible. The MK-108, despite it being a 30mm Gun was not strong enough for that purpose.
The 262 was the future? A flying coffin! Apart from a few the Czechs used for a few years after WW2, with superior engines, given to them by the Soviets, no one took took up the 262. A poor design indeed. The Meteor is still flying to day. The Meteor was the future. ▪ Forward in the nose pilot position giving all around visibility; ▪ High tail, out of the line of the engine’s thrust; ▪ Reliable and powerful engines using advanced alloys; ▪ Centrifugal and axial-flow engines available; All future jet planes used elements of the Meteor. No one used anything from the 262.
@@showtime112 The Soviets improved the German jet to prevent/reduce the engines cutting out if the throttles were opened to quickly. The Czechs used it as they had Hobson's choice. I am sure they would rather have a real jet plane. No one look any lead from the 262 in post war jet plane/engine design. The German engines were clear rip-offs of British patents. Even OHain said and wrote that Frank Whittle invented the turbojet. After WW2, the German WW2 plane designer, Kurt Tank, was hired by the Argentines, after the British rejected him, to build a jet plane for them. He did using a British engine. The plane was a flop.
Also the pilot has no direct control of the nose wheel steering. This plane is only steered by pressing one of the brakes on the main gear to tip the nose wheel the direction ya wanna go in. : )
That's true. But the same goes for some later aircraft such as MiG-21 and A-4 Skyhawk. Imagine steering the Scooter on a small deck carrier with nothing but differential braking!
The idea was for the Me-262 to attack heavy concentration of Allied forces attempting an invasion. For that, it was relatively suitable because it didn't need much precision.
@@showtime112 - Possibly, but it would have shed a lot of its advantages in that mission; lower altitude and lower speed would have drastically increased the losses to Allied piston engine fighters.
Well, it seems that Meteor was introduced to service on 27 July 1944. One day before that, Me-262 was flying a combat mission against a Mosquito. So, I don't know about that.
@@showtime112 The Nazis claimed the Me262 was operational in April 44 (as does wikipedia). In fact it was flying with a test squadron (Erprobungskommando) to prepare it for entry into front line service. The first squadron was Commando Nowotny which was declared operational in September 44, and built off the back of the Erprobungskommando, and the first confimred kill came that month. Meanwhile the Meteor went to operational squadrons in July and got it's first kill, on a V1 flying bomb, in August
This plane, was up to the end of the 40 s, the best and fastest jet fighter of the world. Much faster and better as the p80. Do a research for HOWARD HUGHES, AND HIS ME 262! And I say it as a German. Hitler was a British agent. Dunkirk! Stalingrad! The me 262! And the nero burning terrain order at the end of war, to let German people starving after the lost war. The order to destroy all of the rest not destroyed by allies Infrastructure, including the power plant, water , corn miles!
Sorry! Flight "Left"tenant Flight Lieutenant Wall. He was British, wasn't American.Only the Americans say, "Lewtenant" Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, say"Leftenant" Cheers from the Pacific West Coast of Canada.
Thanks for the info. I am aware of the British pronunciation but since I tend to speak the America way, that's how I pronounce the ranks as well. You could say I 'translate' them 😁 I make an exception with German ranks because most authors who cover the period seem to do so.
I love the graphics on this video but the storyline regurgitates the uninformed nonsense of the Me262. To do otherwise would spoil the dream of all the ‘whatiffers’. The Me 262 was a first generation jet which arrived with the Meteor, the Lockheed F80 and the Vampire. The writer is correct that the production delay was purely down to engine supply. Even then the Jumo’s had a life of about 25 hours if you were lucky and ten if you used the throttles too quickly in combat. The axial engine took years to get right after the war which is why the British were ahead with the tolerant and more powerful centrifugals. In 1944 the Nene gave 5000lbs of reliable thrust against the Jumos unreliable 1900 for the same weight. Britain flew its first axials, the Metrovick F2, in a Meteor in 1943 but favoured the easier to produce and reliable Whittle and RR engines. For ‘today’s war’. The Me262 was not a ‘wonder weapon’. It was probably the best of the first straight wing generation jets. The F80 was its equal, the Vampire would have outmanoeuvred it with equal performance and the Meteor 3 was a bit behind until fitted with Wellands as the Mk4. The Me262 had a useable Mach limit of 0.84 which was the same as the Tempest and lower than the Spitfire. The P80 was near the Me262, the Meteor 0.80 and the Vampire 0.72. The Me 262 had a main wing chord thickness of 11% which gave it this slight advantage at maximum speed. It was not the best in a turning fight, German tests show that the Arado 234 could outmanouver the 262. Many of the 262 losses in combat were caused by diving piston engine fighters turning inside it and using longer ranging weapons and a gyro sight to good effect. A total of 1294 262’s were built (1944 saw 11,767 Me109’s and Fw190’s built). About 60 were available on any one day due to lack of spares because the allied air superiority after DDay crippled the transport system. Fighters shot down 214 and pilot error and mechanical failure accounted for 146. One German pilot admitted that the accident rate was ‘appalling’. (German non combat losses for all aircraft types was 54%.) Only experienced pilots got results. The30mm cannon armament made the 262 a good bomber destroyer but the MK108 had a muzzle velocity of 540m/s, a rate of fire of 650rpm and a muzzle length of 580mm which meant that a pilot had to get within 500/250metres to be effective. If one dived through the fighter screen at over 500mph and then tried to hit a target travelling at 200mph one had 2 seconds to correct and fire using an obsolete Revi collimating sight where the pilot had to judge deflection and bullet drop. This is why the ’experten’ got results because they worked out their attack before going in. The Hispano MK5 20mm cannon had a 840m/v, fired at 750rpm and had a barrel length of 1.34 metres which made it a better dogfight weapon especially when combined with the Mk2D computing gyro sight used on most allied fighters. If the three allied jets had met the Me262 in combat it would have been the usual trade of between pilot skill, tactical situation and numbers. The Me262 would have shown up as pretty but average. To give perspective on the problem, one B17/24 raid in May 1944 against German oil installations saw 935 bombers escorted by 1100 fighters. The 262 played no effective part in a war where DDay saw the allies with 5409 fighters against a total western front force of 895 fighters German of all types. The rank and file German pilots in later months had just over 100 hours training whereas allied pilots received 350at least. The 39807 plane built in 1944 were mainly scrap because the Germans had neither the fuel to operate them or the pilots to fly them. The Me262 experimental unit formed on 19th April 1944 under Theirfelder. Major Novonty formed the first Luftwaffe combat unit that August although he complained that the aircraft and support systems were not ready. He averaged three planes a day on sorties. After a month he was down to three aircraft serviceable. 616 Squadron was a regular RAF unit ready for action against the V1 threat with ‘ordinary’ pilots on 29th June 1944. The average serviceability of the Meteor Mk1/3 was 84%. What if, what if, what if is not factual history. What if 500 B29’s had appeared in Europe in 1944?
Thank you for this extremely long feedback. But you are really missing the point. This video definitely doesn't focus on 'what if' or that Me-262 was a 'wonder weapon'. Just look at the five facts. Delay was not caused primarily by Hitler (while so many other sources 'regurgitate' the opposite), most produced airframes never saw battle, the first kill, the last kill and one air force that used it after WWII. One or two sentences grabbed your attention and you completely ignored 99,5% of the content.
no western allies air force, should claim any air victories during 44-45 , cause germany had no pilots at that time.only young boys whom had about 2 weeks of training max
Well, in that case Luftwaffe shouldn't claim any victories in the USSR in 1941-42. Victories don't count only if your opponent is equally trained, equally experienced, flies a comparable aircraft and nobody had the initial advantage im battle. That's just absurd.
I'm Italian and i live close to Fermo city, as a pilot myself in real life i've always been interested in those kind of stories about aviation of the past times, and i heard about the story of a DH 98 Mosquito that during WW2 had to do an emergency landing/crash landing at the Fermo military airport at that time, but i whould have never immagined that episode whould have been the "almost" first confirmed kill of an Me 262! That's a thing that i didn't knew about that story but i've always been curious to deeper into it to discover more. Thank you so much Showtime for your hard work, love your videos and keep up the good work! 😉
Grazie! Thanks for sharing your personal connection to the story. I'm not sure if that was the very same Mosquito you heard of but it is quite possible. They took of from the UK and realized they probably couldn't get back after the encounter with the German Jet.
@@showtime112 Another coincidence happened to a D.H. 98 Mosquito on 24.08.1942 she was on a RAF foto reconnaissance flight to Italy during the flight the right engine got overheated and they had to perform an emergency landing in Belpmoos / Switzerland.
@@jamesmorgan2465 Thanks for these details. I should do a video (or more) about Swiss Air Force intercepting and shooting down planes violating its airspace during WWII. Can you perhaps recommend any good source about it?
This plane, was up to the end of the 40 s, the best and fastest jet fighter of the world. Much faster and better as the p80. Do a research for HOWARD HUGHES, AND HIS ME 262! And I say it as a German. Hitler was a British agent. Dunkirk! Stalingrad! The me 262! And the nero burning terrain order at the end of war, to let German people starving after the lost war. The order to destroy all of the rest not destroyed by allies Infrastructure, including the power plant, water , corn miles!
Remarkable jet plane considering it flew operational combat during WWII. It was truly ahead of its time !!! Flying it during its time period must have felt with pride n marvel @ technology ahead of its time. Kudos for informative upload. New subscriber because of this vid. Anticipating ur next one. Peace
This is not true at all, the British had a jet fighter that was much further along in its development and far more capable, the only reason this aircraft saw operational service during the war and the British didn't was because the Germans were desperate enough to rush it into service before it was ready, which is why it had a fair chance of exploding on takeoff.
They were way ahead technically and engineered the most beautiful deadly weapons. The first operational jet fighter. The first operational rocket fighter. The first radio controlled bombs Let alone it’s superb infantry weapons such as the MG42 and the Stg44. The finest unit support weapon and the first real assault rifle. I believe the first American stealth plane was based on the Horton flying wing which was Germany’s attempt to build low radar return aircraft
@@TheEarl777 about half of that is wrong, and like I already pointed out in this thread, it's only half true that they had the first operational jet fighter. It's technically true because they rushed it into service before it was ready, hence it's tendency to explode shortly after takeoff. The fact is that the British had a far superior jet fighter that was much further along in development and it just didn't see service during the war because they weren't desperate enough to press it into service before it was ready.
I would like to know if this channel or any subscribers have any documentation regarding the often mentioned vulnerability of the Me-262 to interception during return to base. I have read anecdotal accounts of allied fighters bouncing 262s approaching to land, but was that a really a widespread occurrence? I know allied escort fighters would drop down on the way home to attack targets of opportunity, but were they under specific directives to hawk the airspace around fighter bases, or more specifically Me-262 bases? I know there were night intruder missions designed to hunt enemy night fighters between their bases and the bomber stream. Were there any daytime fighter intruder missions launched specifically to hunt enemy day fighters at low level near their bases? I do wonder why a 262 returning to base need be all that much more vulnerable than a prop fighter. It was not out of fuel like an Me-163 was. Air bases are usually heavily defended by AAA and sometimes fighter patrols. Assuming returning fighters kept their speed up until entering a tactical pitchout or pitch-up up for landing, I don’t see why the 262 would be exceptionally vulnerable until slowed to approach speed.
Gen Chuck Yeager famously describes downing a 262 on landing. It's when they're the slowest, so might as well take advantage. As for the fuel, I'm surmising fuel was at premium in early to mid 1945 Germany, sorties probably kicked off with say less than full tanks to begin with so no missed approaches -- tanks are dry.
The main reason why Me-262 was very vulnerable on landing is that the engines were extremely sensitive to sudden change in RPM. If you pushed the throttle too fast, the engine would simply quit. And there was no airbrake so the speed management was extremely delicate. Once they were able to reduce the speed for landing, they couldn't just increase it quickly and they were very vulnerable in this low energy state.
@@showtime112 Yeah, I get that. But you only need to get that slow to configure for landing, which is relatively short period of time. My question involves how often an allied fighter was actually likely to sneak up on a 262 while it was landing. I'm not trying to figure why that would be bad, but how widespread it actually was.
6. interesting fact: new replicas were built with General Electric CJ610 engines - very widespread jet engine with not much trouble. It's called the "Me 262 Project".
7. there is one ME 262 which is restored to operablere status in Everett close to Seattle. Due to Covid and the bankruptcy of the involved museum the project is delayed. ruclips.net/video/FPazuFQZE3o/видео.html
@@showtime112 yep.....oh so true...thats what happens when you surround yourself with "yes" men who think its better to tell you what you WANT to hear instead of telling you what you SHOULD be told.
Great presentation! Love to see history brought to life by this channel. It's a sight for sore eyes to see one fly in real life. I've had such a privilege to so a few years ago at an air show. 🎩♠️🎯🎱🏁🇺🇦🔱🌻💮🌸🏵️🏴☠️🏹
This plane, was up to the end of the 40 s, the best and fastest jet fighter of the world. Much faster and better as the p80. Do a research for HOWARD HUGHES, AND HIS ME 262! And I say it as a German. Hitler was a British agent. Dunkirk! Stalingrad! The me 262! And the nero burning terrain order at the end of war, to let German people starving after the lost war. The order to destroy all of the rest not destroyed by allies Infrastructure, including the power plant, water , corn miles!
A lot of sources focus on the Me-262's speed, which was impressive. But often overlooked was the terrifying amount of firepower the M3-262 brought to bear on Allied aircraft. The Me-262 was armed with four Mk 108 30mm cannons, a deviously simple and effective weapon of remarkably compact dimensions. The Mk 108 had a short barrel, which limited muzzle velocity of its projectiles to 540 mps/1770fps, but this was deemed acceptable because the 30mmx90mm shell was relatively low velocity and claimed its brutish effectiveness through the relatively large explosive warhead it fired rather than through kinetic energy. Each high-explosive shell contained 5.5 g/85 gr of high explosive. Testing revealed it took only about five hits to destroy Allied bombers. Each Mk 108 fired 660 spm, or about 11 per second. Each shell weighed 330 g/.73 lbs. The Me-262 had four of these bad boys, so 44 shells left the nose every second, with a combined mass of 14.5 kg/ 32 lbs of shell containing a combined 242 g/ 3,740 gr of explosive. Because all four of these cannons were arranged centrally in the nose, all of this destruction was focused on a single point. Allied aircraft simply disintegrated.
I’ve read that the lack of high temperature metals for the engines made maintenance problematic. They couldn’t stand many hours before wearing out. Sound correct?
Luftwaffe training film - Flying the Me 262 😉 For the ones who have one at home and are guessing how to start up the Me 262 🤔 ruclips.net/video/oBH0ULVmsow/видео.html
I truly don't remember if I've seen this 1 already maybe I fell asleep cause I just came home from work or something but I'm gonna watch it again. Kick some a** Mr. ST112.
The problem of Hitler and Me262 was not a delay in principle. Several people, including his personal physician, told Hitler that a fighter pilot could not perform dogfight manoeuvres with a jet aircraft - presumably because of the G-forces. Therefore Hitler was sceptical about using it as a fighter. Only a small quota of the Me262s produced were "allowed" as fighters. Only on this condition, that most Me262s would be used as fighter-bombers, was series production approved. As a result, fewer machines arrived at the test commands (Kommando Nowotny) and then at the fighter units at all, while the Me262s piled up at the bomber units. The lack of a bomb sight made the use of the Me262 as a fighter-bomber questionable anyway. By limiting how many Me262s could be assigned to which units, Hitler nevertheless had a strong inhibiting effect on the use of the Me262 as a fighter. Especially as the new technology required retraining in engineering and attack tactics. It is true that technical aspects, such as the readiness and availability of the engines, also had a delaying effect.
@@imperialinquisition6006 Not with number able to fly. Hitler need thousands and thousands of this aircraft for changing the events of the aerial war. At the beginning he wanted to make it a bomber, and it was a mistake he did the same mistake with the submarine it's because Hitler was fascinating by the big things. He hadn't understood the nuclear weapon in 1941 when the physiscain experts had explained to him the mechanism.
@@imperialinquisition6006 Elegance has nothing to do with where engines are. B-1B also has engines under the wings but it's incredibly elegant in my opinion.
Adding bombs to a jet fighter was not only stupid(it had increased weight and,as a consequence,it had decreased its speed and the speed was the main thing that made the difference in the air combat) but it also delayed mass production,and time was short for the nazis..What should we expect from a gassed Austrian painter?
Thanks for this comment! I actually already used 'historical' skins on my Ju-87 Stuka video. I was expecting someone to criticize it but no one did, despite a large number of views.
@@showtime112 It was part of the history anyone having a problem with that being show on german planes ignores the fact. Hitler stole the swastika cross from the Hindu Religion and reversed the edges. In Hinduism, the right-facing symbol (clockwise) (卐) is called swastika, symbolizing Surya ("sun"), prosperity and good luck, while the left-facing symbol (counter-clockwise) (卍) is called swastika, symbolising night or tantric aspects of Kali
@@drstrangelove4998 false: the Meteors was use for patrols in west germany debut 1945, one Arado jet bomber was shot down by a meteor.The Meteors was not engaged as fighter because this was uncessary because the large air superiority from the alliees, and for you information, the operational range from all ww2 jet fighters was very small becasue a enormous fuel consumption (minimum twice a similar propeller aircraft)
Thanks! We don't have that particular airplane in IL-2. It does exist in War Thunder though. If I find enough interesting info about it, it might be a topic someday.
![Inside The Cockpit - Messerschmitt Me 262 [DIRECTOR'S CUT]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LpmOT6l9qwY/mqdefault.jpg)
![Inside The Cockpit - Messerschmitt Me 262 [DIRECTOR'S CUT]](/img/tr.png)
Thanks for pointing out that almost every fighter in WWII could carry bombs, and that adding that capability to the 262 was simple. I tried to make that point in a comment on the Military Aviation History channel and was assaulted by legions of the uninformed and un-inform-able.
It all makes sense when you dig a bit deeper into it. Thanks for commenting.
@ Gort ,There were even 2 Messersmitt 262 with 50-mm-Cannon MK 214 A build in the front of the nose to fight bombers.
@@jamesmorgan2465 Yes, but not sure how you relate that to the narrative that adding pylons for bombs delayed introduction of the aircraft into combat.
It wasn't very well suited to the role, though. But what I think is more interesting, is when you look at just how many different versions of this plane were either built or on the drawing board. I mean, why spend resources in that way, when you're strapped for both time, skilled labour and raw materials? It may not have delayed the plane as such, but I think they'd been better off focusing on producing as many of the fighter version as possible, and forgetting about the rest. Thankfully, they didn't.
Let me help you this way: the early variant of the P-47 was quickly fitted to carry bombs and it was not big deal exactly with with the Me 262A as both were installed on strong points....
Another fascinating aspect is that the Germans showed the plane and shared the relevant technology (especially the jet engines) with their ally Japan, which produced a very similar plane, the Nakajima Kikka. The Kikka was smaller, with foldable wings so as to be able to be hidden in caves and such, but is strikingly similar. Japan first flew it the day after Hiroshima was bombed and had dozens more in production when the war ended.
Thanks for contributing. Too little, too late is even more appropriate in the Japanese case.
There’s an ME262 on display at The South African National Museum of Military History. It’s quite remarkable and a must see 👍🇿🇦
Great video! The number of kills claimed by Me-262 pilots is between 500 and 700 Allied airplanes, depending on the source.
One of the books I found has a detailed list of claims specifying each type shot down and the Me pilot who scored the kill. There are 442 of them. 60 percent are heavy bombers.
This plane, was up to the end of the 40 s, the best and fastest jet fighter of the world. Much faster and better as the p80.
Do a research for HOWARD HUGHES, AND HIS ME 262!
And I say it as a German. Hitler was a British agent. Dunkirk! Stalingrad! The me 262! And the nero burning terrain order at the end of war, to let German people starving after the lost war. The order to destroy all of the rest not destroyed by allies Infrastructure, including the power plant, water , corn miles!
@@m.b.blenkoblanka4167 false: the P80 shooting star was +50km/h faster than the Me 262...the me 262 was NEVER copied because had many design faults, one of them did limit the maximum speed, uncontrolable over 950km/h in dive (controlls freezing).
@@m.b.blenkoblanka4167 All the other jet fighters were better tbh. The Meteors did very well and had a decent service life. Me262 had several problems, but was decent enough ig.
@@imperialinquisition6006 omg. You have no idea. Of course, the me 262 got many problems causing the war situation! But did you do a research? Howard Hughes!? Me262? The p80 and others where be so badly , that they think of, to build the me262 again in series! As the p80! And , the HG version of the me262 was still build! HG for high speed! With arrow wings. It was much better than the me 263 formally version. Omg. Sometimes I think, you Americans without robbery stolen and kidnapping German Hightechnolgy, patents, science's, USA would be a 5 level fail state country.
Another great video ST112. I always look forward to Saturday's when (mostly) these come out.
Thanks! I try to be regular with videos. Sometimes I squeeze additional one in the middle of the week but that's not always doable :)
There was an (Messerschmitt Me 262 A-1a "Weiße 3" of the JG 7) JG7=fighter squadron, which had to perform an emergency landing due to low fuel at (Dübendorf) which was a Military Air Base in Switzerland at 08.46 AM on 25.4.1945 The Swiss Air Force examined the (ME 262 A-1a 1a "Weiße 3") completely. The german Pilot was (Hans Guido Mutke, Oberfähnrich) It then was handed over in 1957 by the Swiss Government to the German aviation department of the Museum in München where it is on display today.
What a lovely gift for Switzerland 😀
I had a chance to caress one of these babies along with a P-51 and B-17 at an air show in Georgetown, TX and the first thing I noticed was the flush rivets. This baby was smooth.
Very good info this . Thank you. The sound you use sounds like the sound on the game 'wings of steel'. 👍🏻
Thanks for the comment! These are sounds from IL-2 Great Battles. I believe most of them or all are synthetic but then again, many of these airplanes don't exist in flyable condition.
This channel is truly amazing with its facts as well as the graphics which are so lifelike! It always has me mesmerized to my screen m! 👍
Oh, thanks! This is so great to hear.
sure wish there were more specimens of this fascinating and historic aircraft still around for aviation museums
got to see an actual remaining specimen at a museum where it was on loan - to me it was one of the top exhibits at the time
Agreed. Often, you hear these stories how many aircraft were scrapped as soon as they were not needed anymore. Few people at that moment think about preservation for future enthusiasts (such as us).
There were 5 replicas built in Everett Wash, 4 flying and one static, that used the GE 85 engine and one static, no engines built. Plus Paul Allens Flying Heritage museum Paine Field Everett Wash, has an original with rebuilt modified engines that was doing taxi test just before Paul died. I had hear the Museum was sold but thats all !!
The so-called Miracle Weapon was shown to Hitler first time in August 1943 he said to Willy Messerschmitt! That's the Machine I am gonna break the British air terror with. One of the mistakes was that Hitler not being an aviation expert wanted the Me262 to be a Bomber and act as one, not a Fighter Jet that was a complete miscast and in that role, of a Bomber, it could not really play to their strengths. In my personal opinion, I would say the main advantage of the Me 262 was its speed of a max 870 km/h (Mach 0.86) faster than a P-51 no other allied plane was as fast as the Me262 she was also called the -51 Mustang Killer. On the other hand, the disadvantages were the Me 262 needed a runway with at least 1300 meters in length for take-offs and landings so she was an easy target for the Allie fighters when spotted. At low speed the performance was poor the Me262 wanted to be flown fast and finally, her range was limited to 1000km = 621.371 Miles
The Mustang killer is definitely true. Their most frequent target was of course. B-17 but there were about 70 claims of P-51s as well. Hitler's desire for a bomber was probably motivated by a strong (and false) thinking that Germany had a good chance of winning.
Thank you for all that.
My first love is DC-3 and ME 262 also mighty interesting. In both cases compelling aesthetics follow form and function. I follow a few of these flying now, at least one possibly replicated.
Thanks for the feedback, I'm glad you liked the video!
More interesting facts. Thanks Showtime.
Thank you for another comment!
EXCELLENT...as usual. Thanks for this great video and bringing back aviation historical facts to us. Keep working you are doing a GREAT JOB.
Much appreciated! New content is being worked on, the future is safe :)
@@showtime112 Don't forget the Falkland conflict, the attack on the HMS Coventry ( 25 May 1982). You will do an EXCELLENT job, I am sure of that.
Even if the plane had been put into operation on its original date, at best it would have set back the USAAF and RAF bomber command by a year or 18 months at most, considering the British had their own jet fighter the Meteor ready and the Americans had developed the P-80 in 1944 to counter it.
One overlooked design detail of the Me 262 is the small Riedel starter motor located in the nose of each engine. It could be started using the pull cord ring located in the bullet nose of the jet engine. Much the same as pull starting a lawn mower. It could also be started using the 24 volt electric starter. This was a 2 stroke air-cooled twin cylinder engine that would be used to start Jumo 004 jet engine.
It seems quite funny to use such a 'primitive' system on such an advanced weapon.
Yeah that was really cool! I would guess they had quite a few issues mounting bombs, Mainly because it messes up COG. You also need the space and hardpoint strength, which they would have had to add in. Then factor in something the US stuggled with, at higher speeds your releasing can be a lot more complicated considering the air pressure. Making sure they aren't going to fly back up into the plane was probably an issue beyond just release. Then take off and landing most likely were difficult, as well as proper training on how to handle them.
Though it was polish to the brass on the titanic at that point. 1500 frames are impressive but like you said, due to how they were made, to actually get them assembled by that point from so many different regions would have been near impossible. But they had been operating that way with 109s for a while, I wonder if indirectly some of the ways were ruined as time passed.
Nice work M8!
Me262 always reminds me of shark on attack, looks good it was good
Thank you for making this video. It was very useful and informative
Thank you for commenting. It is very helpful.
The British Meteor was operational before wars end as well. They used it to attack the VI bombs.
The Meteor was launch~in same time (first Meteor squadron was created 2 months before the first me 262 staffel) the me 262 and not "before war"...was a bit use for patrols over west germany debut 1945, one german jet bomber (Arado AR234) was shot down by a Meteor...
I think that was actually 'before War's end', not 'before war'.
In order for the 262 to have had a major impact on the war it would have needed to have been produced in quantity.
In my opinion 6 months would not have done that as by that time the allies had gained air superiority and the manufacturing facilities would have been become primary targets of bomber command.
Interesting fact number 6: The early prototypes had a "tail dragger" landing gear configuration. They had to change that to a "tricycle" configuration because the exhaust from the engines was angled down towards the runway in a tail dragger configuration and it had a tendency to set the runway on fire.
It looks so unnatural as a tail dragger 😁
Actually during early tests the aircraft struggled to take off. Test pilot touched the brakes, the tail lifted up and he then gunned it and took off.
All jets subsequently have used tricycle gear to plane out the wings.
German planes rarely took off paved runways in the end, the planes landing gear was very robust.
and the test pilots had to break to lift the tail, not much loved by them. The RLM strictly was against the "american invention"tricycle landing gear.changing the design and Hitlers wish to have the "Blitzbomber" delayed production for more than one year.
Nice work!
Glad you appreciate it!
The Germans had developed the turbojet before WWII. The tech, airplanes, metallurgy, pilot training needed to be done before the war started. Needed large quantities of Ni, Cr, Tungsten to produce hi power turbojet that is long lasting and fuel efficient.
Good article, good video!
It's good to hear you liked it!
(Real Pilot) I fly it in VR. What a brilliant design...It needs better engines and a steerable nose wheel but other than that I love flying it.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
Here's another fact that gets overlooked. In Italy was several P-80 fighters that were as fast, and could out handle the 262. After the war the P-80s were stationed in Germany. Why wouldn't the US not allow the P-80 planes to go into combat, and that died with Hap Arnold.
I seem to remember that they deployed some of them to Italy but they were not successful for some reason. Maybe that deserves a video of its own, thanks for reminding me!
@@showtime112 They were only for recon and testing limits
If that plane had been put into production in 41 we'd all be speaking German now!
Maybe watch potential history's videos titled; "Germany could not win WW2"
No , it would have delayed the War by a year possibly two , but in the end the US might at Wartime production was unequaled. We were lend leasing War material to France before they fell (P36 Hawk ) Great Britain ( Planes, Tanks , Guns ) and the USSR (P39 Airacobra )
Not necessarily. Allies had jet technology as well and had the situation been more difficult for them, they would have developed it much faster. Economic might of the Allies would have prevailed eventually.
@ Callum Bush, No, it takes more than just good planes to win a war...
You assume a fighter could win that war. I respectfully disagree...
Hitler was such a bumbling military strategist that the British called Hitler "Britain's greatest general"
Dictators always make dumb decisions, it's the nature of their rule.
Imagine when the Allie pilots saw an airplane flying through the air without propellers for the first time. 😮
Probably something similar to modern day pilots seeing a UFO
Achtung!! Excellent aircraft.
Thanks for the comment!
Always wondered how it would perform with two modern jet engines small enough to fit in the pods.
They actually built some replicas with (more) modern General Electric engines. Engine reliability and increased flexibility would have helped for sure. But aerodynamics probably had its limit regardless extra power.
The Meteor f.3 was the more useful aircraft. As the aviation author Alfred Price reminds us, that during the final months of World War 2, _"Allied fighters were able to shoot down, on average, just over two German jet fighters for each Allied fighter or bomber that was destroyed by the jets."_
That's not a great average for a jet plane flown by the hand-picked elite of the Luftwaffe. The 262 was unmaneuverable, and fragile. The 262 had better straight line acceleration if the throttles were not opened too quickly, then the engines would cut out.
The 262 was an inferior weapons system, owing to the unreliability of its engines and guns, compounded by its poor manoeuvrability. The Meteor didn't blow up when you tried to accelerate, and the cannons generally fired when you wanted them to. Those things are pretty important in a combat aircraft.
The Meteor f.4 blew away the 262. It came out just as the war ended. The f.4 set world speed records.
Meteors operational history is quite boring compared to Me-262. They shot down a few V-1s and destroyed some aircraft on the ground I think. Me-262 shot down hundreds of aircraft and was shot down in the hundreds. Some people might be into theoretical discussions and 'what ifs', but personally I am always more interested in actual experience of an aircraft, no matter how flawed it might be.
@@showtime112
You are right. The so called mind blowing 262 was was marked as piston engines planes were shooting it down at an amazing 2 to 1 rate.
The Meteor was boring? Look at the dizzying rate of progress from introduction until the end of the war. And then after it set world speed records and even broke its own record. How boring do you want it?
@@johnburns4017 I think you might be happier watching some channel that focuses on speed records and such 😁
@@showtime112
No, I like the overall performance which the 262 did not have. The Meteor is still flying commercially today.
Excellent vid
Thanks, I'm glad you liked it!
An excellent book to read is Duels in the Sky by Capt. Eric M Brown RN
A Fleet Air Arm fighter and test pilot during WW2 who actually flew many, many types of aircraft including the ME-262 and did a comprehensive assessment of aircraft and their capabilities against each other.
Haven't read that one but sounds pretty good.
Brown still holds the record for flying the most types of plane. Fascinating chap check him out if you haven’t heard of him - Winkle Brown
The Me 262 was to late for combat against the 8th Army Air force and 15 Army Air force in early 1944, the Germans were losing the oil fields and refinery out of business and German pilots killed and wounded.
Clean version 262 reached 628mpn in ww2
262 rate of climb was good
THE KILLER for Mustang
So, the Czechs had better metals with which to build the engines?
Not exactly. The engines lasted longer probably because Czech pilots flew them in peacetime and were able to fly more 'gently', unlike Luftwaffe pilots operating under wartime pressure.
Actually, the British Gloster Meteor entered squadron service in July 1944 a full 2 months before the 262
But the Meteor was slooooowww compared to the 262, so not exactly a match
@@rickkubik6666 By Jan 1945 The Meteor had evolved with the Mk 3 with a top speed of 495MPH , reliable R.R. Derwent jet engines with a service interval of 100 + hours and by mid 1945 the Mk 4 was exceeding ALL the performance data of the 262.. I agree of course that the 262 when it first arrived was superior to the Mk 1 Meteor
Although the Erprobungskommando was theoretically only a test unit, they even operated the Me-262 in combat and I think this can really count as the beginning of operative flights for this airplane.
@@rickkubik6666 was not slow long time, the F4 version (longer fuselage + stronger engines) was ready in mid 1945 and was FASTER than the me 262, and the US P80 shooting star was still ready in same time and was faster than the M 262...
Post war flight in ME262 astounded renowned test pilot Eric Brown.@@rickkubik6666
Me-262 also flew for the Soviets after the War, together with FW-190Doras and others. They also used the 262 Engines in their Mig-9 Jet Prototypes and later their own Copies in the Service Mig-9's. Wich was inferior to the 262 Airframe in many ways. Only the later Rolls Royce Design made the Mig-15 surpass the Me-262 in every detail but firepower. Althoug the single 37mm made Tank Kills in Korea possible. The MK-108, despite it being a 30mm Gun was not strong enough for that purpose.
Thanks for adding details!
and today, every fighter is a fighter bomber.
Exactly. In fact, they are more bombers than fighters.
Avia also built BF 109's
The 262 was the future? A flying coffin! Apart from a few the Czechs used for a few years after WW2, with superior engines, given to them by the Soviets, no one took took up the 262. A poor design indeed. The Meteor is still flying to day.
The Meteor was the future.
▪ Forward in the nose pilot position giving all around visibility;
▪ High tail, out of the line of the engine’s thrust;
▪ Reliable and powerful engines using advanced alloys;
▪ Centrifugal and axial-flow engines available;
All future jet planes used elements of the Meteor. No one used anything from the 262.
Czechs didn't use superior engines but rather, they just copied the existing ones.
@@showtime112
The Soviets improved the German jet to prevent/reduce the engines cutting out if the throttles were opened to quickly. The Czechs used it as they had Hobson's choice. I am sure they would rather have a real jet plane.
No one look any lead from the 262 in post war jet plane/engine design. The German engines were clear rip-offs of British patents. Even OHain said and wrote that Frank Whittle invented the turbojet.
After WW2, the German WW2 plane designer, Kurt Tank, was hired by the Argentines, after the British rejected him, to build a jet plane for them. He did using a British engine. The plane was a flop.
Also the pilot has no direct control of the nose wheel steering. This plane is only steered by pressing one of the brakes on the main gear to tip the nose wheel the direction ya wanna go in. : )
That's true. But the same goes for some later aircraft such as MiG-21 and A-4 Skyhawk. Imagine steering the Scooter on a small deck carrier with nothing but differential braking!
Can you make a video to get rid of all the wehraboos once and for all? How about a flying tiger tank launched from the Bismarck?
Not all of us like Chris from military aviation. Strikes me as a spoiled rich boy. But not rich enough to move out of his parent's attic. 😄.
The 262 fighter bomber danger was its use would have been taken away from destroying dickie autos
Mequito Wooden fast fighter.
Me-262: hold my beer, I have four 30mm cannons and Uber fast.
the recon Mosquito had no weapons and the 30mm german canons was inaccurate and unreliable (tanks god...)
The ME 262 look like a great white shark
That's what it's most frequently compared to.
Good use of computer graphics
Thanks for the feedback!
Adding bomb pylons and the necessary drop switches is easy; modifying some planes into being a suitable fighter-bomber is not.
The idea was for the Me-262 to attack heavy concentration of Allied forces attempting an invasion. For that, it was relatively suitable because it didn't need much precision.
@@showtime112 - Possibly, but it would have shed a lot of its advantages in that mission; lower altitude and lower speed would have drastically increased the losses to Allied piston engine fighters.
Fun fact about me = two hundred and sixty two.
Downed plane could have been nabbed and quickly recovered by enemies
First fighter jet, first ICBM, first intermediate select fire assault rifle. Just think if Hitler had been patient and less idiotic.
The V-2 was not an intercontinental missile.
Gloster Meteor was much better
Check out the excellent channel WW2 US Bombers for a recent analysis of Me 262 effectiveness.
Too litle too late, luckily for everybody.
Exactly.
The Gloster Meteor was first
Well, it seems that Meteor was introduced to service on 27 July 1944. One day before that, Me-262 was flying a combat mission against a Mosquito. So, I don't know about that.
@@showtime112 The Nazis claimed the Me262 was operational in April 44 (as does wikipedia). In fact it was flying with a test squadron (Erprobungskommando) to prepare it for entry into front line service. The first squadron was Commando Nowotny which was declared operational in September 44, and built off the back of the Erprobungskommando, and the first confimred kill came that month. Meanwhile the Meteor went to operational squadrons in July and got it's first kill, on a V1 flying bomb, in August
Pure fighter? latest nazi a/c FW 190 was fighter and bomber replacing Stuka making use of late war capability of a/c multiple role as today
The Germans were ahead of us in everything. Just think of the V1 and 2 rockets. Regards
We got the atom bomb first
In many aspects, that's true. However, lot of that really came out of their desperation.
This plane, was up to the end of the 40 s, the best and fastest jet fighter of the world. Much faster and better as the p80.
Do a research for HOWARD HUGHES, AND HIS ME 262!
And I say it as a German. Hitler was a British agent. Dunkirk! Stalingrad! The me 262! And the nero burning terrain order at the end of war, to let German people starving after the lost war. The order to destroy all of the rest not destroyed by allies Infrastructure, including the power plant, water , corn miles!
You,re a feckin MORON !!! The Gloster Meteor Mk 3/4 and 8 were all superior to the 262
Sorry! Flight "Left"tenant Flight Lieutenant Wall. He was British, wasn't American.Only the Americans say, "Lewtenant" Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, say"Leftenant"
Cheers from the Pacific West Coast of Canada.
Thanks for the info. I am aware of the British pronunciation but since I tend to speak the America way, that's how I pronounce the ranks as well. You could say I 'translate' them 😁 I make an exception with German ranks because most authors who cover the period seem to do so.
Look at you, digging in them skin files....
You mean the 'historical' skins? I prefer them, not because I have any sympathy for that regime but simply because they are more accurate.
@@showtime112 Relax -- I do the same, mate. Have to be historically correct.
I love the graphics on this video but the storyline regurgitates the uninformed nonsense of the Me262. To do otherwise would spoil the dream of all the ‘whatiffers’. The Me 262 was a first generation jet which arrived with the Meteor, the Lockheed F80 and the Vampire. The writer is correct that the production delay was purely down to engine supply. Even then the Jumo’s had a life of about 25 hours if you were lucky and ten if you used the throttles too quickly in combat. The axial engine took years to get right after the war which is why the British were ahead with the tolerant and more powerful centrifugals. In 1944 the Nene gave 5000lbs of reliable thrust against the Jumos unreliable 1900 for the same weight. Britain flew its first axials, the Metrovick F2, in a Meteor in 1943 but favoured the easier to produce and reliable Whittle and RR engines. For ‘today’s war’.
The Me262 was not a ‘wonder weapon’. It was probably the best of the first straight wing generation jets. The F80 was its equal, the Vampire would have outmanoeuvred it with equal performance and the Meteor 3 was a bit behind until fitted with Wellands as the Mk4. The Me262 had a useable Mach limit of 0.84 which was the same as the Tempest and lower than the Spitfire. The P80 was near the Me262, the Meteor 0.80 and the Vampire 0.72. The Me 262 had a main wing chord thickness of 11% which gave it this slight advantage at maximum speed. It was not the best in a turning fight, German tests show that the Arado 234 could outmanouver the 262. Many of the 262 losses in combat were caused by diving piston engine fighters turning inside it and using longer ranging weapons and a gyro sight to good effect.
A total of 1294 262’s were built (1944 saw 11,767 Me109’s and Fw190’s built). About 60 were available on any one day due to lack of spares because the allied air superiority after DDay crippled the transport system. Fighters shot down 214 and pilot error and mechanical failure accounted for 146. One German pilot admitted that the accident rate was ‘appalling’. (German non combat losses for all aircraft types was 54%.) Only experienced pilots got results. The30mm cannon armament made the 262 a good bomber destroyer but the MK108 had a muzzle velocity of 540m/s, a rate of fire of 650rpm and a muzzle length of 580mm which meant that a pilot had to get within 500/250metres to be effective. If one dived through the fighter screen at over 500mph and then tried to hit a target travelling at 200mph one had 2 seconds to correct and fire using an obsolete Revi collimating sight where the pilot had to judge deflection and bullet drop. This is why the ’experten’ got results because they worked out their attack before going in. The Hispano MK5 20mm cannon had a 840m/v, fired at 750rpm and had a barrel length of 1.34 metres which made it a better dogfight weapon especially when combined with the Mk2D computing gyro sight used on most allied fighters. If the three allied jets had met the Me262 in combat it would have been the usual trade of between pilot skill, tactical situation and numbers. The Me262 would have shown up as pretty but average.
To give perspective on the problem, one B17/24 raid in May 1944 against German oil installations saw 935 bombers escorted by 1100 fighters. The 262 played no effective part in a war where DDay saw the allies with 5409 fighters against a total western front force of 895 fighters German of all types. The rank and file German pilots in later months had just over 100 hours training whereas allied pilots received 350at least. The 39807 plane built in 1944 were mainly scrap because the Germans had neither the fuel to operate them or the pilots to fly them.
The Me262 experimental unit formed on 19th April 1944 under Theirfelder. Major Novonty formed the first Luftwaffe combat unit that August although he complained that the aircraft and support systems were not ready. He averaged three planes a day on sorties. After a month he was down to three aircraft serviceable. 616 Squadron was a regular RAF unit ready for action against the V1 threat with ‘ordinary’ pilots on 29th June 1944. The average serviceability of the Meteor Mk1/3 was 84%.
What if, what if, what if is not factual history. What if 500 B29’s had appeared in Europe in 1944?
Thank you for this extremely long feedback. But you are really missing the point. This video definitely doesn't focus on 'what if' or that Me-262 was a 'wonder weapon'. Just look at the five facts. Delay was not caused primarily by Hitler (while so many other sources 'regurgitate' the opposite), most produced airframes never saw battle, the first kill, the last kill and one air force that used it after WWII. One or two sentences grabbed your attention and you completely ignored 99,5% of the content.
The 20mm cannons on the 262 would have disentegrated the wooden build of the Mosquito!!
I believe at least some had 30 mm.
no western allies air force, should claim any air victories during 44-45 , cause germany had no pilots at that time.only young boys whom had about 2 weeks of training max
Well, in that case Luftwaffe shouldn't claim any victories in the USSR in 1941-42. Victories don't count only if your opponent is equally trained, equally experienced, flies a comparable aircraft and nobody had the initial advantage im battle. That's just absurd.
A British test pilot said taking up a captured Me-262 was a dream. No prop vibration. Just smooth control of everything.
And no engine torque or mixture settings either. Jet power sure offers advantages.
I'm Italian and i live close to Fermo city, as a pilot myself in real life i've always been interested in those kind of stories about aviation of the past times, and i heard about the story of a DH 98 Mosquito that during WW2 had to do an emergency landing/crash landing at the Fermo military airport at that time, but i whould have never immagined that episode whould have been the "almost" first confirmed kill of an Me 262! That's a thing that i didn't knew about that story but i've always been curious to deeper into it to discover more. Thank you so much Showtime for your hard work, love your videos and keep up the good work! 😉
Grazie! Thanks for sharing your personal connection to the story. I'm not sure if that was the very same Mosquito you heard of but it is quite possible. They took of from the UK and realized they probably couldn't get back after the encounter with the German Jet.
@@showtime112 Another coincidence happened to a D.H. 98 Mosquito on 24.08.1942 she was on a RAF foto reconnaissance flight to Italy during the flight the right engine got overheated and they had to perform an emergency landing in Belpmoos / Switzerland.
@@jamesmorgan2465 Thanks for these details. I should do a video (or more) about Swiss Air Force intercepting and shooting down planes violating its airspace during WWII. Can you perhaps recommend any good source about it?
This plane, was up to the end of the 40 s, the best and fastest jet fighter of the world. Much faster and better as the p80.
Do a research for HOWARD HUGHES, AND HIS ME 262!
And I say it as a German. Hitler was a British agent. Dunkirk! Stalingrad! The me 262! And the nero burning terrain order at the end of war, to let German people starving after the lost war. The order to destroy all of the rest not destroyed by allies Infrastructure, including the power plant, water , corn miles!
@@showtime112 Most welcome.😉Will get back to you about that.
Remarkable jet plane considering it flew operational combat during WWII. It was truly ahead of its time !!! Flying it during its time period must have felt with pride n marvel @ technology ahead of its time. Kudos for informative upload. New subscriber because of this vid. Anticipating ur next one. Peace
Thank you for the feedback and for the subscription. I hope you will like other videos as well!
This is not true at all, the British had a jet fighter that was much further along in its development and far more capable, the only reason this aircraft saw operational service during the war and the British didn't was because the Germans were desperate enough to rush it into service before it was ready, which is why it had a fair chance of exploding on takeoff.
They were way ahead technically and engineered the most beautiful deadly weapons.
The first operational jet fighter.
The first operational rocket fighter.
The first radio controlled bombs
Let alone it’s superb infantry weapons such as the MG42 and the Stg44.
The finest unit support weapon and the first real assault rifle.
I believe the first American stealth plane was based on the Horton flying wing which was Germany’s attempt to build low radar return aircraft
@@TheEarl777 about half of that is wrong, and like I already pointed out in this thread, it's only half true that they had the first operational jet fighter. It's technically true because they rushed it into service before it was ready, hence it's tendency to explode shortly after takeoff. The fact is that the British had a far superior jet fighter that was much further along in development and it just didn't see service during the war because they weren't desperate enough to press it into service before it was ready.
I would like to know if this channel or any subscribers have any documentation regarding the often mentioned vulnerability of the Me-262 to interception during return to base. I have read anecdotal accounts of allied fighters bouncing 262s approaching to land, but was that a really a widespread occurrence?
I know allied escort fighters would drop down on the way home to attack targets of opportunity, but were they under specific directives to hawk the airspace around fighter bases, or more specifically Me-262 bases?
I know there were night intruder missions designed to hunt enemy night fighters between their bases and the bomber stream. Were there any daytime fighter intruder missions launched specifically to hunt enemy day fighters at low level near their bases?
I do wonder why a 262 returning to base need be all that much more vulnerable than a prop fighter. It was not out of fuel like an Me-163 was. Air bases are usually heavily defended by AAA and sometimes fighter patrols. Assuming returning fighters kept their speed up until entering a tactical pitchout or pitch-up up for landing, I don’t see why the 262 would be exceptionally vulnerable until slowed to approach speed.
Gen Chuck Yeager famously describes downing a 262 on landing. It's when they're the slowest, so might as well take advantage. As for the fuel, I'm surmising fuel was at premium in early to mid 1945 Germany, sorties probably kicked off with say less than full tanks to begin with so no missed approaches -- tanks are dry.
The main reason why Me-262 was very vulnerable on landing is that the engines were extremely sensitive to sudden change in RPM. If you pushed the throttle too fast, the engine would simply quit. And there was no airbrake so the speed management was extremely delicate. Once they were able to reduce the speed for landing, they couldn't just increase it quickly and they were very vulnerable in this low energy state.
@@showtime112 Yeah, I get that. But you only need to get that slow to configure for landing, which is relatively short period of time. My question involves how often an allied fighter was actually likely to sneak up on a 262 while it was landing. I'm not trying to figure why that would be bad, but how widespread it actually was.
@@gort8203 ruclips.net/video/prSwmH3Rjas/видео.html
@@gort8203 Glad it helped!
One of the best lines I’ve ever heard about the ME262 “are they fast?” “Like a homesick angel”
That was quite funny :)
6. interesting fact: new replicas were built with General Electric CJ610 engines - very widespread jet engine with not much trouble. It's called the "Me 262 Project".
True. Not the original but it must be cool to see them fly nevertheless.
7. there is one ME 262 which is restored to operablere status in Everett close to Seattle. Due to Covid and the bankruptcy of the involved museum the project is delayed. ruclips.net/video/FPazuFQZE3o/видео.html
Cool stuff! 👍🏻👏🏻💪🏻 I always loved the shape of this machine. 🥰🍻🍻🙋🏼♂️
Thanks! Yes, it is still looking rather modern, just imagine what it must have looked like in 1944.
Ah yes,dont you just love all the "smart" descions hitler (thankfully) made.🤣🤣🤣🤣
He did make some dumb ones. Dictators always do, it's because they don't like to be told they are wrong.
@@showtime112 yep.....oh so true...thats what happens when you surround yourself with "yes" men who think its better to tell you what you WANT to hear instead of telling you what you SHOULD be told.
More interesting facts that are not widely known. The Czech version was very interesting as I had not known that before.
Glad you find it useful. I thought the Czech story was particularly interesting.
@@showtime112 Great video. I wonder if any of the Czech jets are still in existence.
Great presentation! Love to see history brought to life by this channel. It's a sight for sore eyes to see one fly in real life. I've had such a privilege to so a few years ago at an air show. 🎩♠️🎯🎱🏁🇺🇦🔱🌻💮🌸🏵️🏴☠️🏹
Thanks! I've never seen one fly but I saw a static one many years ago.
This plane, was up to the end of the 40 s, the best and fastest jet fighter of the world. Much faster and better as the p80.
Do a research for HOWARD HUGHES, AND HIS ME 262!
And I say it as a German. Hitler was a British agent. Dunkirk! Stalingrad! The me 262! And the nero burning terrain order at the end of war, to let German people starving after the lost war. The order to destroy all of the rest not destroyed by allies Infrastructure, including the power plant, water , corn miles!
A lot of sources focus on the Me-262's speed, which was impressive. But often overlooked was the terrifying amount of firepower the M3-262 brought to bear on Allied aircraft. The Me-262 was armed with four Mk 108 30mm cannons, a deviously simple and effective weapon of remarkably compact dimensions. The Mk 108 had a short barrel, which limited muzzle velocity of its projectiles to 540 mps/1770fps, but this was deemed acceptable because the 30mmx90mm shell was relatively low velocity and claimed its brutish effectiveness through the relatively large explosive warhead it fired rather than through kinetic energy. Each high-explosive shell contained 5.5 g/85 gr of high explosive. Testing revealed it took only about five hits to destroy Allied bombers. Each Mk 108 fired 660 spm, or about 11 per second. Each shell weighed 330 g/.73 lbs. The Me-262 had four of these bad boys, so 44 shells left the nose every second, with a combined mass of 14.5 kg/ 32 lbs of shell containing a combined 242 g/ 3,740 gr of explosive. Because all four of these cannons were arranged centrally in the nose, all of this destruction was focused on a single point. Allied aircraft simply disintegrated.
Thank you for contributing such interesting details!
MK 108 was intendet to destroy bombers with only a few hits.purely no fighter weapon as the 151/20 was
Early Me262 had tail dragger landing gear that was far from ideal. Conversion to tricycle gear took months.
It really looks weird as a tail dragger :)
I’ve read that the lack of high temperature metals for the engines made maintenance problematic. They couldn’t stand many hours before wearing out. Sound correct?
I think engine overhauls every 25 hours I read and less if you move the throttle too fast, you have to move throttle in small increments
Great stuff 👍.... but what's the background music 🎶?
Thanks. The music is Beethoven's 9th Symphony, the finale.
Luftwaffe training film - Flying the Me 262 😉 For the ones who have one at home and are guessing how to start up the Me 262 🤔
ruclips.net/video/oBH0ULVmsow/видео.html
I watched that, very interesting indeed!
beautiful machine.
It sure is!
Massive balls from the Mosquito's pilots that managed to reach Fermo with a wounded plane flying in from Germany
It was either that, or bail out and hope for the best.
Seeing the Me-262 must have been a very scary scenario for any Allies pilot!
Probably something like those US Navy pilots seeing UFOs :)
@@showtime112wasnt just us navy pilots English bomber pilot doc encounter etc.
I truly don't remember if I've seen this 1 already maybe I fell asleep cause I just came home from work or something but I'm gonna watch it again. Kick some a** Mr. ST112.
Never too late 😁 I was quite happy with this episode when it was done.
The problem of Hitler and Me262 was not a delay in principle.
Several people, including his personal physician, told Hitler that a fighter pilot could not perform dogfight manoeuvres with a jet aircraft - presumably because of the G-forces.
Therefore Hitler was sceptical about using it as a fighter. Only a small quota of the Me262s produced were "allowed" as fighters. Only on this condition, that most Me262s would be used as fighter-bombers, was series production approved. As a result, fewer machines arrived at the test commands (Kommando Nowotny) and then at the fighter units at all, while the Me262s piled up at the bomber units.
The lack of a bomb sight made the use of the Me262 as a fighter-bomber questionable anyway. By limiting how many Me262s could be assigned to which units, Hitler nevertheless had a strong inhibiting effect on the use of the Me262 as a fighter. Especially as the new technology required retraining in engineering and attack tactics.
It is true that technical aspects, such as the readiness and availability of the engines, also had a delaying effect.
That's an interesting insight.
Nice video. Which flight simulator did you use for this video.
Thanks. It was IL-2 Great Battles.
Interesting story about this marvelous plane which arrived too late for changing the heart of History of the second world war.
Thanks for the feedback!
Would it really have changed the war, except for the greater use of jet aircraft though?
@@imperialinquisition6006 Not with number able to fly. Hitler need thousands and thousands of this aircraft for changing the events of the aerial war. At the beginning he wanted to make it a bomber, and it was a mistake he did the same mistake with the submarine it's because Hitler was fascinating by the big things. He hadn't understood the nuclear weapon in 1941 when the physiscain experts had explained to him the mechanism.
For the first operational jet fighter and a aircraft from the first generation of Jets, the 262 looks remarkably modern.
I agree, the design actually looks much more elegant than many later jets.
@@showtime112 with the engines under the wings?
Yes.
@@imperialinquisition6006 Elegance has nothing to do with where engines are. B-1B also has engines under the wings but it's incredibly elegant in my opinion.
Great video, thanks, subscribed.
So glad to hear it, thanks!
Adding bombs to a jet fighter was not only stupid(it had increased weight and,as a consequence,it had decreased its speed and the speed was the main thing that made the difference in the air combat) but it also delayed mass production,and time was short for the nazis..What should we expect from a gassed Austrian painter?
Thumbs-up for having the integrity to show the Hakenkreuz, despite the snowflake meltdowns soon to come.
Thanks for this comment! I actually already used 'historical' skins on my Ju-87 Stuka video. I was expecting someone to criticize it but no one did, despite a large number of views.
@@showtime112 It was part of the history anyone having a problem with that being show on german planes ignores the fact. Hitler stole the swastika cross from the Hindu Religion and reversed the edges. In Hinduism, the right-facing symbol (clockwise) (卐) is called swastika, symbolizing Surya ("sun"), prosperity and good luck, while the left-facing symbol (counter-clockwise) (卍) is called swastika, symbolising night or tantric aspects of Kali
@@jamesmorgan2465 Thank you for contributing details about the topic!
@@showtime112 Most welcome always my pleasure...😉
Funny the meteor was operational in squadron service before the 262.
The Meteor was never an operational fighter. It was used to try to destroy buzz bombs over England, that’s all.
@@drstrangelove4998 false: the Meteors was use for patrols in west germany debut 1945, one Arado jet bomber was shot down by a meteor.The Meteors was not engaged as fighter because this was uncessary because the large air superiority from the alliees, and for you information, the operational range from all ww2 jet fighters was very small becasue a enormous fuel consumption (minimum twice a similar propeller aircraft)
The British engines were centrifugal flow the German Junkers and BMW engines were axial flow.
@@leneanderthalien Neat. I never knew Meteors got any air-to-air victories in the war. And an Ar 234 of all things.
@@eugeneoreilly9356
The junkers engines lasted under twenty hours the Meteors over two hundred hours.
Cool! Can I request a video on the Horten Ho-229???
Thanks! We don't have that particular airplane in IL-2. It does exist in War Thunder though. If I find enough interesting info about it, it might be a topic someday.
@@showtime112 nice! thanks!
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Hitler always wanted multirole fighters, like F18
Heinkel had a jet ready for production Heinkel He 280, 3 years prior but Hitler was biased to Messershmitt.
Yes, that's an interesting aspect of the whole story.
Same with me109k series. No petrol not a drop.