Lighting design tip! Leave a gap between the start/end of the led strip and side wall, around 3". This will reduce the extra bright hotspot on the wall which helps direct visual focus to the countertop.
Hey Michael! The main reason for the difference in language is that Transformers just transform the voltage output, whereas drivers convert alternating current to direct current. If you put AC power through LEDs you're going to have a bad time.
I loved the video, more people need to use this type of lighting on their furniture. I am a lighting designer and I have some points that I would like to complement and correct: COB LED strips are not very good for lighting use, only for decorative uses, especially when we are talking about a place that requires a little more luminous flux. They heat up a lot, which shortens their lifespan. The use of aluminum channels, in addition to providing a good finish, can help with heat dissipation, more people need to use those. To prevent the LED dots from appearing, the diffuser will be enough, in addition to giving a good diffused finish to the light. We just need to check the light retention. Another important point is the lumen. Watts is the power of the LED, not necessarily how much light it produces, some brands and models are more efficient than others. In summary, the main points you need to take into consideration are the CRI, as in the video it needs to be at least 90+, the lumens per length it produces, the light retention of the diffuser and a LED strip that has a low Steps value (MacAdam ellipse). I love these videos, in addition to being a lighting designer, I am also an interior designer, and I have already implemented several of your ideas in projects
COB LEDs are good for lighting they are just higher power output per foot which leads to more heat output. If you look at the specs a COB strip has way way more LEDs than a non-cob strip that is why it heats up more its just more LEDs in total. You lose a massive amount of light through diffusers even clear ones and closing a channel off insulates the strip a cob strip hidden properly in a channel does not need a diffuser. If you compare specs a COB LED strip can have much higher lumens per ft but does not need a diffuser which only lets 60-90% of the light through and that is converted into heat in the diffuser and traps the hot air above the strip in a channel. For any application where the strip is very close to the user you should use COB led strips to avoid the multi-shadow effect. They also high LED element failures better as there are more LEDs in total so one dead one doesn't cause a visible gap in the light.
Nice work, but I have to ask, if you built the cabinets, why didn't you build the valence into the original cabinet design? I also found that putting the light strip all the way to the front, directly behind the valence front blocks light from reaching the front edge of the counter. I mounted my lights about 2 inches from the front edge which resulted in the light nicely illuminating the entire counter from the very back edge to the front edge.
I followed this step by step for some solid Douglas fir floating shelves I built in my new kitchen! Thank you so much for your level of detail, this was a huge help!!
Great video! We bought an older house last year with flourescent tube fixtures under the cabinets, and I've been wanting to upgrade to LEDs. This is exactly the video I needed to help with that. You answered all my questions and made me think about things I hadn't even considered. Immediate subscribe. Thanks for posting this!
When installing the wire in the walls use a "speaker" wall plate with binding posts. This not only gives a cleaner & more professional appearance but also saves from having to locate the wire. Furthermore instead of running a wire between cabinets you can tie into one location. As a bonus you can use the multi binding post option for "zones", like below cabinet and above cabinet lighting. You can also use the multi option for additional drivers if you require more power than whats available with one driver.
Also in same vein. In wall approved speaker wire is often a large enough gauge for lighting. Unlike this video I wouldn't trust door bell wire for lighting applications as it's too small for the possible currents imo.
@@2hlix18 AWG is likely totally fine for LEDs like this, but it does depend on the current and length of run. Ex. For 5A, 18 AWG should be fine depending on the length. If these LEDs are 14W/m at 12V, that's 1.17A/m. Rough estimate of 3 meters means the LEDs from the video draw 3.5A. Since 18 AWG is rated for 7~10A (depending on many factors), it seems appropriate for the lengths in this video. Even 20 AWG might be fine, but it depends mainly on the cable's ambient temp, heat dissipation, and length to avoid too much voltage drop. Also depends if you need the LEDs at max brightness all the time (which can degrade over time - ideally, go for brighter than you need), both for the general heat produced by the cable, and if any voltage drop from the cable length will be noticeable. Also note that the conductors within the strip itself are likely much smaller area than 16 or 18AWG wire... Which is one of the reasons why you need power injection for longer LED strip runs.
23:40 you could also use wago connectors fo this, that way you don´t need to solder and can take it apart easier if you need to change the led in the future
First off, thank you for using channel! So many people (including "professionals") don't do this, they just stick the strip directly to the underside of the cabinet 🤢 Second, you spoke to making sure the driver had enough wattage 👍but the other thing that's important to consider is voltage drop. LEDs are typically constant current driven, but these strips are typically constant voltage driven, so making sure they have the correct voltage is important, otherwise they will not get as bright as they should, produce the color they should, or may fade along the length of the strip (basically the LEDs at the start of the strip get enough voltage but they ones at the end don't). When I did my kitchen under cabinet lights, I placed the driver, as well as smart controller in the cabinet above the fridge. I then ran three separate cable runs to each cabinet via the attic. (My setup was complicated by the fact that I used RGBW LED strips, so I had to use cable that had 5 conductors in it). In any case, after going from the cabinet, into and across the attic, and then down the wall into the cabinet, even the shortest run was a few feet. The longest was probably more than 10'. I had to estimate the length and calculate the estimated voltage drop to make sure that each strip was seeing 24v both at the beginning and end of the strip. Realistically, if you're getting a little less (want to stay under 3% drop based on the NEC) voltage at the strip it's probably ok, as long as it's the same along the entire strip (especially for long strips) and it's not so much of a drop on one strip vs. another that you notice a brightness difference. To compensate for a long run you can increase the wire gauge, or move the driver closer (i.e. make the run shorter) if possible. If the strip is particularly long you may need to run a second power cable to it and tap it either in the middle of the strip, or at the end. To calculate voltage drop, you can Google "voltage drop calculator," and plug in the estimated length of the circuit, wattage, and voltage, and the gauge of the wire you plan to use. Just make sure you switch it to DC.
I'm glad you went with the hard wired approach, rather than all of the battery, Wifi, Bluetooth crap that won't work in another decade. I did mine this way as well and wish I'd installed the transformer remotely and ran the low voltage wire like you did. Instead, I hid my transformer within the cabinets, which was a massive pain in the ass. Looks great and works nonetheless, so live and learn.
I love how you show how to do different types of projects that are related to wood shop projects, and share all the titbits and tricks of information. I'm at the age where I have started to get full free reign over what I want to create, and your videos give me a lot of inspiration.
Man, seeing this whole thing come together is so satisfying. I'm planning on building out my closet soon and some built in LEDs are now part of that plan. Can't wait to see the next one!
I am totally going to do this! Caveat is I am in an apartment so it has to be removable, but my apartment has modular cabinets that have atleast 1/4" between each, 5/8" 'valance' under each cabinet, and 12" running above the cabinets. Controller above cabinets, drop wires between for the lights! Great video, thank you!
‘Transformers’ transform AC voltages to other AC voltages. LEDs need DC current, so an LED driver needs to convert AC to DC. A driver [ probably ] actually has a transformer inside to step down mains voltage, a rectifier to convert AC to DC and then maybe some other power electronics to produce a clean DC constant current source.
@@MichaelAlmAlso quick note, $100 for a simple DC 12V or 24V power supply is absurd. Those can be bought for less than $20 with 10A or about 120W for 12V units. There is absolutely no reason to be paying that much for one
@@aleksastojanov4033 Actually, you are incorrect. While you can get a standard 24v brick for cheap, when you want to use a house dimmer switch, you need a "magnetic" dimmer to be able to dim the lights. The dimmer that normally would dim 120v. The magnetic driver can compensate for the 120v dimming and relate that to teh low-voltage side. Finally, while $100 is a lot, about the cheapest I found was $60 (for a reliable one). Look for a brand called Inexaccessories (B0CP7D89YW). I just got it and it seems to work well.
@@aleksastojanov4033 Note that the $99 "driver" he bought also supports dimming... Although you can handle that with a $2 PWM dimmer module and any LED smart controller. (Or, a PWM dimmer module with a knob).
Thanks for sharing this, always love the attention to detail you put in your projects. Some people had some great comments already on the importance of CRI, color temperature, etc. This may not be a detail that many of your customers use but I've wired a lot of my furniture/in wall lighting with 6 conductor wire just so I have the option of going full RGB CCT in the future. Wire is inexpensive and who knows what one might want to change to 5-10 years down the road. Keep up the good work.
Michael, first-rate vid and appreciate your attention to detail. However, you did leave out one aspect I've been trying to get answered for my project: what level of light do you need over the counters? Here are some other questions I had while watching: - What gauge wire did you use to interconnect your LED strips between one-another? - Is your LED strip setup dimmable? - Are the strips a fixed color temperature? - With the COB LEDs, could you have gone with a clear channel cover instead of frosted in order to have less light loss? The COBs have a diffusive layer above the actual LEDs. Thanks, and this video got me to subscribe to the channel.
Would love to see a reply from Michael with the specifics, but in the meantime... -- I don't know what wire gauge he used, but for low-voltage stuff, you almost never will need bigger than 18 AWG. It does depend on just how much lighting you're trying to run off the same wire, but most of the time you'll run into aesthetic issues related to voltage drop before you overload the wiring and will want to upgrade the wiring size for that reason anyway. In practice, 20 or 22 AWG is usually fine. There are online calculators you can use to be sure though. Take your amperage, add 25% (for constant load situations, all wiring and equipment should be sized so that you're only using 80% of the rated load), and see what gauge wire is required. -- The driver he took from his shop lighting is dimmable. You can tell either by looking up the make/model # online (pulled from the closeup shot he provides of the driver), or just noticing at the end when he's testing the lights, that he goes through a dimming range of the lights. -- The LED strips used here have a single color temp. Of course, if you want to get fancy you can use temp adjustable LEDs, or even RGB, but those would require a more complicated wiring setup, as well as a different kind of light switch, or at least a remote control tied into the system somehow. -- I wonder about the diffuser myself. Honestly, with the COB strip, I probably wouldn't have even bothered with the diffuser. It's just going to keep airflow away from the strip, which likely will shorten the life of the strip, and the COB style LEDs already have very even light. That said, my own preference might not be relevant, since I wouldn't use the COB strip in the first place. For my own kitchen, I used regular strips with 2832 LEDs, relying on higher density spacing (120/m) and a diffuser to even out the light. In a previous very-low-budget install, I was just using strips with 60/m spacing and no channel or diffuser, and even there I rarely noticed any unevenness of the light; occasionally I'd catch a glimpse of the individual LEDs reflecting from the toaster or microwave, but the illumination of tasks was still great. With the 120/m and a diffuser, you can only notice the individual LEDs if looking directly at the light strip, and of course since it's carefully installed under the cabinets where you're not able to see the lights directly, this is completely fine.
The big plus of aluminium channels is that they increase the dissipation area so your LEDs will be able to dissipate heat faster making them last longer. Besides, you can install diffusers which will help with non-COB LEDs.
If you’re retrofitting you can also put in a false bottom on the inside of your cabinets to make the same kind of negative space you had between your cabinet and valence
Michael that is a Fab kitchen, your skill [& temperament] shine through! Btw I'm super impressed with your mitres on those valences. I always used to consider sub-contracting Jon Peters to cut my mitres (lol) but I'd have every confidence that you'd give the 'mitre-king' a run for his money!
This was super, super helpful. I've always just thrown my hands up and used hidden LED tubes instead. Never even heard of CRI. Gonna go click your Amazon links.
Bandages all over your fingers. I love it :-) I've been doing tons of pattern plywood stuff, because of you. I'm thoroughly enjoying it. Thank you so much. Take care.
You can put up LED strips with very minimal tools! Just get the aluminum channels, they come with diffusers and screws. If your cabinets already have a lip at the bottom, just fasten em there! And you don't even need any soldering! You can just use lever nuts, crimp connectors, the included barrel jacks (if compatible), solderless splice connectors, etc... and if you need to cut a strip and add wires between, you can probably buy connectors meant for that style of strip that just push on the ends. This is where a very small amount of soldering skill can be convenient, so you aren't relying on these push-on connectors and can totally customize your wire length, but you don't technically need to.
For most standard cabinet installs I've seen, it's super easy to hide the wires. There's usually a little gap between cabinet boxes, so you can just run it up and over, no holes required. Might have to try to hide the wire running from front to back, but no one's going to look there anyway.
THANK YOU for making an intelligent and fully instructive video, and not employing the goofy acting and silly antics of the low-intelligence DIY entertainment videos.
When cutting the miters at 3:30, any reason you're changing the angle on your miter saw instead of just flipping the other workpieces over to the right side of the saw? Assuming the miter saw fence is straight you'd get your complimentary angles without the chance of small mismatches in the angle, it would also be faster.
Hello, I’d like to add that you can consider cutting the led strip shorter so that the light at the end of the track doesn’t create hot spotting on the cabinet wall. LED is a very sharp light, so you need to keep its distance away from items to provide a nice even glow. Thank you for your video.
I'm not gonna comment on the woodworking or LEDs explanation, those are amazing as always. I'm commenting to say that I love the usage of Adam Savage's book :D Very fitting I would say :D
Electrical Engineer here, the reason it is called a driver rather than a transformer is that a transformer is explicitly a device that converts AC power to a different voltage of AC power. LED are diodes and produce light when power is fed through them in one direction, thus the AC power will need to be transformed down to 24V and then passed through a rectifier to turn it into smooth DC power that is suitable to drive the LEDs
thats kinda BS, since that would mean all laptop chargers would be called 'drivers' as well. It's mainly called a 'LED driver' because it's a device that... drives LEDs.
I'm loving this series! Two part comment here... First, thanks for the best LED explanation I've seen pitched to the true amateur level - most content makers kind of gloss over all that with a 'I bought it off Amaeverything, link in description' as if one LED set solves all lighting scenarios; Second, one trick I employ to reduce complexity is to not plow the groove until the miters are all figured out and cut. If your pieces are consistent cross-section, this avoids creating a 'right v. left' component scenario... yes, I have to out-think myself all the time.
looks really great. i'd recommend using a snap on led connector between the strip and power supply so that you can replace components w/o dealing with resoldering
Ohhh thanks for the LED tutorial! I've been meaning to make fake windows in the house, but LED panels are so expensive! Now that I understand LED strips a little better I might pick up that DIY project again!
Hell yeah. You've got a creative and thorough mind, you'd make a hell of a custom light fixture and wall art line. RUclips has no face in that department either, especially not in this style. i hope nobody spends $100 on an led driver though. That was the most creative part of the videos lol.
thank you for the valuable advice. i want to do this in my kitchen. however, my kitchen is "galley" style, so its long and skinny with cabinets are on both sides. im at a loss on how to connect the two sides without unsightly wires on the walls or doing a bunch of drywall work (which is more work than i want to put into this) i had the thought of running the two sides on separate power supplies then connecting them with smart switches. however, my knowledge of smart plugs and whatnot is very limited so im not 100% sure how i would do that or if its even possible.
@11:25 Transformers in electricity means a physical thing - a block of metal with windings. LED drivers might have a coil, but not a transformer, because they're switching regulators.
Thanks Michael! Any recommendations for dimmer switches / remotes? I bought the light strip + driver but would like to control them other than plugging them in / unplugging. Mine won't be hardwired to switches as yours are but more like your garage set up.
Nice install. Two questions: 1) what are your thoughts on solder seal heat shrink butt connectors? Seem like it would save one step. 2) What's the plan for replacing the strips when they eventually fail? I realize they strips should last for thousands of hours, but eventually, they will fail and that kitchen seems built to last.
Thanks! I've never tried that style connector, but I'm sure they would work. If the LEDs fail then you unscrew the valances, de-solder the connections, and replace them. I've heard from other commenters that the COB LEDs might have a shorter lifespan, but the aluminum channel helps dissipate heat so that helps them last longer.
Michael. A tip when drilling drywall looking for wiring. Use the hole saw in reverse, it will still cut the drywall easy enough but creates less dust, less bite and if you push too hard the teeth are less likely to damage the cables as they are in reverse mode
Transformers are passive devices, kind of like a gear reduction but for electricity. The output is proportional to the input. Furthermore, they only work with AC voltage. Drivers will accommodate for variations in input and regulate the output as a pwm DC output more like a governor, outputting the specified signal regardless of the input (within a specified range). Fancy drivers will let you control the brightness and color by modifying that pwm output, presuming those features are supported by the strip.
If anybody is working on your place in the distant future I think they’re gonna be very impressed. 😂 They’re so many details and attention that nobody will ever see or know about.
If you do multi color LEDs, i usually see power supply as representing the transformer/ac-dc converter, and driver for the part that controls/drives the color outputs. Nice work!
I would use CCT strips so that you can change the color temp. Warm is good for evening or late at night mood/night light. Then 4000K (daylight) for task lighting. Would suggest using connectors so it is much easier and quicker to change things out if something fails/breaks. I will be adding LED strips in the toe kick area to use as mood lighting or night light.
The company EShine has LED bars that are easy to install, modestly priced and most importantly.... have a hand wave on/off/dim feature. Just wave your hand at a certain spot and it turns on/off. Hold your hand there and it dims. Great product with screws and caps, or double sided tape.
Commonly there are two type of LED drivers I know here (UK) Constant Voltage and Constant Current. For LED strips it's best to have Constant Voltage as LED strips have resistors.
@@MichaelAlm - what issue were you having with them? I was thinking these would be good for making the connection within the valence between the main wiring and the pigtails going to the strip on the valence. This would seem to be more serviceable (?). I solder a lot for electronics, but soldering in a cabinet is... no fun. That kitchen is turning out fantastic, btw.
@@biedawo I can't speak for Michael, of course. But I've done a similar project in my own kitchen, and found the Wago connectors invaluable. I didn't hide my wiring with the build valence as here, but my cabinets hide the wires pretty well as they are. Wago's inline connectors are key though. If I were to use their traditional "all the wires come into the same side" connectors, it would be a lot harder to keep the wires running flush inside the corners of the cabinet undersides. That said, I used the regular ones anywhere I didn't need to hide wires, e.g. where the drivers are plugged in out of sight. I did a similar project for toe-kick lighting and for that I didn't have the Wagos yet and soldered the connections at the cabinet. It was doable, but it'll be a pain if/when the strips need replacing.
Question, I'm retrofitting some old lights under my cabinets and they are these little glass bulbs on a runner that get super hot and I can't find replacements for them. Anyway, they are all hard wired and connected to a single switch. If I connect the driver to the switch to power the first strip, can I use the existing hard wiring to conned the LEDs from cabinet to cabinet? Does that make sense. Basically it's hard wired as a full power circuit, but if I step down w the driver, do I have to replace the wiring down the line.
Any reason you didn't go with diagonal (45 degree) aluminum channels? I'm currently planning my install and also planning on putting the LED strip at the front of the (underside) of the cabinet. 45 degree feels like it makes the most sense... but maybe I'm over-thinking this?
A quick note I would make about Color Temperature (as a LOT of people have no idea about this and just randomly grab LED bulbs (can't tell you how many 4000-5000k LED bulbs i've seen in living spaces in houses), the typical Incandescent bulb is a 2700k color temp, some people may find 3000k a little "harsh", I know I did when I bought them but I lived with it because the bulbs I got where so cheap they paid for themselves in a couple months and this was from 10 years ago when the average LED Bulb was $5 or more. So people upgrading from standard bulbs in a residential setting I would advise 2700k for all your bulbs.
When my partner and I go for evening walks around the neighbourhood, we often have a super judgey running commentary going about the houses we pass - all good-natured of course, and wildly hypocritical given the current state of our own place 😅 It's equal parts gathering inspo for future upgrades and just poking fun at questionable design/decor choices, but one thing that always catches my eye is cold-ass lighting, especially in apartment blocks where there's always one glaring blue-white apartment sticking out like a sore thumb. I saw a house last week that's seared into both my memory and my retinas. It had a huge living room fronted with glass sliding doors so we could see straight in, it was utterly bare (white walls and white tiled floor) apart from a coffee table between two very expensive-looking black leather chesterfield sofas, and the lighting was bright and cold enough to put an Intel R&D laboratory to shame. Like, who the hell is relaxing and feeling at home in that space? I'd be sitting on one of those sofas, doing nothing, with the stress levels of an animal being hunted for sport 😬
@@glittalogik Brands selling "daylight" bulbs as "pure, clean, and energizing" should not be allowed lol. Maybe fine for task areas, but even then I'd recommend 3500~4500k as a more "neutral" white. Too bad it's hard to find bulbs that aren't either 2700K or 5000K/6500K... And don't get me started on tint, lol. Daylight bulbs (especially 6500k) are just not pleasant indoors at night! Also, Philips sells "Warm Glow" dimmable LED bulbs that go from 2700K to 2200K as you dim, for a VERY pleasant cozy glow as they get dimmer!
Btw, my recommendation for the most pleasing, non-green no-flicker LED bulb with great color rendering: the GR Reveal HD+. Widely available (Lowe's, Target, Online, etc), not super expensive, and they're just really nice. 2850K but not harsh at all. Compare to whatever LED bulb came with your house, and it makes those looks sickly green - if anything, these are a bit "rosy" due to the special glass/coating. They're also full frosted glass bulbs, just like the old incandescent, rather than plastic half-globes. Another good recommendation is the IKEA TRADFRI smart bulbs! Surprisingly good color rendering for the price, and they're widely supported.
Did you consider using threaded inserts + machine screws to attach the valences to the bottom of the cabinets? I'm more of an electronics guy than a woodworker, but I've found that those are a little more robust to being repeatedly disassembled/reassembled.
For heat shrink I would recommend using white colored tube I found out from the specs and testing clear tubing actually isn't fire rated from most manufacturers I've used. Hiding any red/black wire from light reflections is good anyways.
Great video. My kitchen lighting as bad. Might have to try an upgrade after watching this. What is your reason for going for the full stove vs separate cook top and oven? (not sure what you call it in english). Personal preferanse or is this just the most normal where you live?
Thanks! Glad the video was helpful. I picked out the oven stove combo partly because it’s what I’m used to, but also because I was having trouble figuring out a good place for a cabinet oven. They look cleaner, but with this size kitchen it would’ve been a less efficient use of space.
My preference is to offset the LED strip about 1-2" from the light rail (valance) so there isn't a harsh shadow on the countertop since they stick out more than the uppers.
Thank you for the information, you explained some things about buy LEDs that I didn’t know. I have been looking for some LEDs and this will definitely help.
There is another major problem with LED lights that I’ve noticed more and more lately especially with strips like these but also cheap bulbs. Many often have insufficient UV filtering! With some it’s so bad that you will get a slight backlight effect at dim settings! However, most can’t be seen but cause a much bigger problem, bleaching. You’ll first notice the plastic diffuser turn yellow or orangish over the space of several months to a few years. In some cases items near the light will also start to bleach as if left out in the sun! I would love to find a reviewer that can measure for this somehow. Being confident that a LED strip won’t yellow over time or bleach your work area would be incredibly helpful.
Has anyone had experience with touch sensor for on/off and dimming of LEDs? Looking for something unintrusive to cabinets that allows 'hidden switching' of the lights within the doors that have glass fronts.
Which dimmer switch did you install with those components? I bought nearly the same items to test: BTF COB strips (but 12v) and a plug-in 100W power supply. I got stuck trying to find information about pairing the driver to a dimmer switch. My kitchen is hardwired with a single-pole, non-dimmable switch connecting two runs of CFL tube surface-mount lights. I was trying to avoid putting a driver between each run on the switch, but I couldn't figure out if it should be that way because of the original electrical layout. Maybe better to consult an electrician?
Can't speak for Michael, but I've pretty much settled on Lutron's Diva line of dimmers. They are less expensive than the equivalent Leviton option, don't require a neutral in the box (though in my case that wouldn't be a problem, but it still makes the wiring simpler), work with three-way circuits, and are designed specifically to work with dimmable fluorescent or LED lights, including a little potentiometer that controls where the lower end of the dimming range the dimmer will actually be (this is useful when dealing with less expensive fixtures that can't handle the lowest levels of dimming, and wind up flickering when you get too low...setting the dimmer to a higher minimum allows the user to slide the dimmer over its full range without worrying about getting into the "flicker zone"). Of course, you still need a LED driver that is compatible with dimmers. Many are, but some aren't so make sure you're getting the right thing. One consideration on the dimmers is that they will have a maximum wattage rating. For a kitchen install, it's highly unlikely you'd come close to the max, but if you're controlling a wider area of LED lighting with a larger driver, it could be a consideration. Especially if you wind up putting a couple of these dimmer switches next to each other, because the wattage rating goes down if they have less room to breath (it's largely about heat dissipation, and putting them next to each other reduces how quickly they can dissipate heat). I don't like the Leviton's visual style, frankly, and other than the cost that's the main reason I don't use those. I prefer the very low profile slider that the Lutron dimmers use, over the big fat almond-shaped thumb handle that Leviton uses. But some people might prefer the latter, since it's easier to see and use, and maybe even like the look. Leviton's dimmers are also a bit more compact, which can be nice if the switch box is tight on space. If I recall, they also have a model that has a higher wattage rating, though off the top of my head I think the rating is 300W for Lutron and 500W for the higher rated Leviton, and frankly even 300W is likely way higher than would be needed in most situations. End of the day, either Lutron or Leviton make good dimmers and both have models designed specifically to be compatible with dimmable LED drivers. There might be other brands; just make sure it's from a reliable company like Feit, Philips, etc. and not some fly-by-night low-budget brand, and look for the same features that Lutron and Leviton offer.
@@harvey66616 Thanks, I'll take a closer look at Lutron's current line. I redid my garage with Maestro motion switches tied into existing ceiling mounted motion sensors. That was confusing enough to figure out by sorting through the junction boxes. My kitchen has 120v AC to each CFL tube fixture under the cabinets + one CFL can light over the sink. All together once replaced with LEDs it shouldn't draw more than 115W, so even a 150W switch could probably handle it. I started planning it out during the pandemic but sidelined it because so many drivers just had no supply I couldn't get the kind I thought were specced right. The "easy" way is probably putting a driver in front of each strip and use a standard AC dimmer, but I know it'll cost more and be annoying to hide them. I can't see what's in the wall (stone backsplashes) but I'm still trying to figure out if it's possible to use one driver and replace the AC to each fixture with low-voltage. That's probably how it would be wired new today (I'm guessing) for a custom lighting job.
@@BrendanFalkowski I don't know what's legal to code, but...seems like your last idea should be feasible, if you can access the wiring at any convenient spot before it reaches the cabinet (and overhead). I.e. house wiring is overkill for LED low voltage, but it will still work great to carry the low voltage you need. It'd just be a matter of hooking things up. The tricky part will be how the hot and neutral wires are dealt with. But "modern" wiring probably uses Romex-style cabling, so there are two wires (plus ground) going to each fixture and you can reuse those for the +/- for the DC voltage. And it seems to me electricians like the daisy-chain things, as opposed to a home-run type parallel circuit, so in theory you should be able to find _some_ place downstream of the switch where you can use the LED driver to change what the cable's carrying from mains to low voltage. If you're really lucky, the cabling goes from the switch to the can light first and then continues from there to the cabinets, so you could hide the LED driver in the ceiling next to the can light (i.e. I'd guess that would be easier, since there's already a hole in the ceiling for the can :) ). In that case, you might even keep the can at 120V, because the LED cans usually have the driver built in already (especially the retrofit ones) and so are designed to be powered from the mains voltage. You'd just split the mains source there, running the can and the LED driver from the switched power, and then using the cabling continuing to the cabinets to power the LEDs installed there, hooking it to the output of the LED driver. I don't know how much cabinet length you have to light, but I'd guess you'll come nowhere near 115W. My own project, I had 5.25m (about 17') of undercabinet length to light, using 2832 LEDs on a 120 LED/m strip, and the power requirement including the 25% headroom was only about 80W.
@@harvey66616 Ah great, those are some really good points. I didn't consider being able to re-use the Romex for low-voltage because nobody would install that. I'll have to check if codes frown on that because I'd assume Romex = 120v without testing it. The switch is splits the left/right wing of cabinets, and is directly beneath the can light. My guess is left/right/can are home runs with the left and right daisy chaining to each under cabinet fixture (3 on each side). I can disconnect them one by one to figure out the flow. You're right, it'd be really nice if left/right meet at the overhead can. That would make access much easier since the CFL can is coming out. But I feel like they'd just home run from the switch at chest height behind the backsplash, rather than running up/down for each wing. My cabinet run is about 5 meters too, so I was calculating with the FCOB 480 LEDs/m strips I got for testing. They use 9W/meter so 45W under cabinet + 45W above cabinet (may add later with less output) + 25W for the can light (safe guess what the CFL can uses now). All in it probably will be < 100W.
@@BrendanFalkowski Yeah, I can see how the COB strips might be more power. As for code, I have no idea. I only know bits and pieces of the NEC, and nothing related to this, so I'm not much help in your case. That said, I _think_ since code is mostly about preventing fires and electrocutions, changing a circuit over to low-voltage is probably fine? Seems like the scenario is not much different from just abandoning a circuit, and the NEC allows that just with the caveat that if the cable isn't removed, you still need boxes and cover plates over each end of the cable run. I guess when you get the switch open, you'll be able to see if there's more than one load connected to the switch terminals (i.e. with a pigtail hooked up to multiple cables going out). If so, then I guess it'd probably be easiest to just get a driver each for the left and right cabinets, and figure out somewhere to hide each nearer the cabinet it powers, and use a retrofit can light, which will have the driver built in. On the bright side, it probably wouldn't be much different in expense, since the driver cost goes down with the rated power, and if you use two drivers instead of one, you only need half the power from each! :)
Michael, I loved the video and I learned a ton from it, but, man, you have Adam Savage's book as "height block" for your monitor. Oh, man, use a "lesser" book for that. 😂. Again, great video.
I really enjoy your videos Michael. Keep it up 😍😍. I am waiting for the pattern plywood, I have a feeling that you will do something great with it it in the kitchen ❤️❤️
You may just drill the hole for wiring through the aluminium diffuser as well to pass the wire through. Once the strip is glued to the aluminium you cannot access the screws holding the diffuser anyway.
Funny thing. This is a new installation and you only put lighting on the bottom of the cabinets. Lighting in the cabinets would be easy to do and would add a wow to the cabinets as well. You would have to add one more thing, a door trigger. You would also have to calculate the wattage difference for the transformer.
I work in HVAC and I usually shy away from 2-Wire. I'm of the mindset I would rather run 5-Wire to have spare wire if it is ever needed or I need to repurpose.
Since all of the base cabinets along a side are already connected, and this is low voltage wiring, another approach could be to run the low voltage wires from behind the uppers down to the bases before drywall is installed (or cut holes and fish same after drywall is installed) and then have a chase between the base cabinets along the back near the countertop so that you can then connect all the low voltage wires together. One of the base cabinets can then have an outlet where the driver can be placed, making it more convenient to replace when it ultimately fails.
FYI: When going from AC to DC, voltage is rectified. From DC to AC it is inverted. Transformers increase or decrease AC voltage. Since LEDs will burn themselves out, a driver is used limit current and voltage.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Lighting design tip! Leave a gap between the start/end of the led strip and side wall, around 3". This will reduce the extra bright hotspot on the wall which helps direct visual focus to the countertop.
Hey Michael! The main reason for the difference in language is that Transformers just transform the voltage output, whereas drivers convert alternating current to direct current. If you put AC power through LEDs you're going to have a bad time.
So it's basically an AC adapter?
Transformers also come from another planet so they’re bound to speak a different language.
@peranolde Good to know! @scott I debated about adding in the transformer noise when I said that 😂
@@scotteverard6286 Ha!
A driver will also limit the amount of current the LEDs can draw from it to avoid overheating of the LEDs.
I loved the video, more people need to use this type of lighting on their furniture.
I am a lighting designer and I have some points that I would like to complement and correct:
COB LED strips are not very good for lighting use, only for decorative uses, especially when we are talking about a place that requires a little more luminous flux. They heat up a lot, which shortens their lifespan. The use of aluminum channels, in addition to providing a good finish, can help with heat dissipation, more people need to use those. To prevent the LED dots from appearing, the diffuser will be enough, in addition to giving a good diffused finish to the light. We just need to check the light retention. Another important point is the lumen. Watts is the power of the LED, not necessarily how much light it produces, some brands and models are more efficient than others.
In summary, the main points you need to take into consideration are the CRI, as in the video it needs to be at least 90+, the lumens per length it produces, the light retention of the diffuser and a LED strip that has a low Steps value (MacAdam ellipse).
I love these videos, in addition to being a lighting designer, I am also an interior designer, and I have already implemented several of your ideas in projects
This is great info! Thank you! There's always more to learn about this stuff.
That's good to know! I'm wanting to get some LEDs to provide better soft lighting for my room, so your comment was very helpful!
So if you don’t recommend COB LEDs for under cabinet lights , and you don’t want light “dots”, what do you recommend?
@@karenmitchell6814that’s what a good diffuser will fix.
COB LEDs are good for lighting they are just higher power output per foot which leads to more heat output. If you look at the specs a COB strip has way way more LEDs than a non-cob strip that is why it heats up more its just more LEDs in total. You lose a massive amount of light through diffusers even clear ones and closing a channel off insulates the strip a cob strip hidden properly in a channel does not need a diffuser.
If you compare specs a COB LED strip can have much higher lumens per ft but does not need a diffuser which only lets 60-90% of the light through and that is converted into heat in the diffuser and traps the hot air above the strip in a channel.
For any application where the strip is very close to the user you should use COB led strips to avoid the multi-shadow effect. They also high LED element failures better as there are more LEDs in total so one dead one doesn't cause a visible gap in the light.
Nice work, but I have to ask, if you built the cabinets, why didn't you build the valence into the original cabinet design? I also found that putting the light strip all the way to the front, directly behind the valence front blocks light from reaching the front edge of the counter. I mounted my lights about 2 inches from the front edge which resulted in the light nicely illuminating the entire counter from the very back edge to the front edge.
This was my main take-back from this video, that having overhang in the cabinets would be so much better.
I followed this step by step for some solid Douglas fir floating shelves I built in my new kitchen! Thank you so much for your level of detail, this was a huge help!!
Great video! We bought an older house last year with flourescent tube fixtures under the cabinets, and I've been wanting to upgrade to LEDs. This is exactly the video I needed to help with that. You answered all my questions and made me think about things I hadn't even considered.
Immediate subscribe.
Thanks for posting this!
When installing the wire in the walls use a "speaker" wall plate with binding posts. This not only gives a cleaner & more professional appearance but also saves from having to locate the wire. Furthermore instead of running a wire between cabinets you can tie into one location.
As a bonus you can use the multi binding post option for "zones", like below cabinet and above cabinet lighting. You can also use the multi option for additional drivers if you require more power than whats available with one driver.
Also in same vein. In wall approved speaker wire is often a large enough gauge for lighting. Unlike this video I wouldn't trust door bell wire for lighting applications as it's too small for the possible currents imo.
@@2hlix Speaker wire is a awesome idea! Especially if you need to run it a longer distance or significant load.
@@2hlix18 AWG is likely totally fine for LEDs like this, but it does depend on the current and length of run. Ex. For 5A, 18 AWG should be fine depending on the length.
If these LEDs are 14W/m at 12V, that's 1.17A/m. Rough estimate of 3 meters means the LEDs from the video draw 3.5A.
Since 18 AWG is rated for 7~10A (depending on many factors), it seems appropriate for the lengths in this video. Even 20 AWG might be fine, but it depends mainly on the cable's ambient temp, heat dissipation, and length to avoid too much voltage drop. Also depends if you need the LEDs at max brightness all the time (which can degrade over time - ideally, go for brighter than you need), both for the general heat produced by the cable, and if any voltage drop from the cable length will be noticeable.
Also note that the conductors within the strip itself are likely much smaller area than 16 or 18AWG wire... Which is one of the reasons why you need power injection for longer LED strip runs.
That's great until the next owner plugs in a speaker.
@@csbarbourv I never thought of that! Labelling it might help??
23:40 you could also use wago connectors fo this, that way you don´t need to solder and can take it apart easier if you need to change the led in the future
First off, thank you for using channel! So many people (including "professionals") don't do this, they just stick the strip directly to the underside of the cabinet 🤢
Second, you spoke to making sure the driver had enough wattage 👍but the other thing that's important to consider is voltage drop. LEDs are typically constant current driven, but these strips are typically constant voltage driven, so making sure they have the correct voltage is important, otherwise they will not get as bright as they should, produce the color they should, or may fade along the length of the strip (basically the LEDs at the start of the strip get enough voltage but they ones at the end don't).
When I did my kitchen under cabinet lights, I placed the driver, as well as smart controller in the cabinet above the fridge. I then ran three separate cable runs to each cabinet via the attic. (My setup was complicated by the fact that I used RGBW LED strips, so I had to use cable that had 5 conductors in it). In any case, after going from the cabinet, into and across the attic, and then down the wall into the cabinet, even the shortest run was a few feet. The longest was probably more than 10'. I had to estimate the length and calculate the estimated voltage drop to make sure that each strip was seeing 24v both at the beginning and end of the strip. Realistically, if you're getting a little less (want to stay under 3% drop based on the NEC) voltage at the strip it's probably ok, as long as it's the same along the entire strip (especially for long strips) and it's not so much of a drop on one strip vs. another that you notice a brightness difference.
To compensate for a long run you can increase the wire gauge, or move the driver closer (i.e. make the run shorter) if possible. If the strip is particularly long you may need to run a second power cable to it and tap it either in the middle of the strip, or at the end.
To calculate voltage drop, you can Google "voltage drop calculator," and plug in the estimated length of the circuit, wattage, and voltage, and the gauge of the wire you plan to use. Just make sure you switch it to DC.
You can also connect both ends of the power rail to the driver, that way you almost avoid the drops.
I'm glad you went with the hard wired approach, rather than all of the battery, Wifi, Bluetooth crap that won't work in another decade. I did mine this way as well and wish I'd installed the transformer remotely and ran the low voltage wire like you did. Instead, I hid my transformer within the cabinets, which was a massive pain in the ass. Looks great and works nonetheless, so live and learn.
I love how you show how to do different types of projects that are related to wood shop projects, and share all the titbits and tricks of information. I'm at the age where I have started to get full free reign over what I want to create, and your videos give me a lot of inspiration.
Man, seeing this whole thing come together is so satisfying. I'm planning on building out my closet soon and some built in LEDs are now part of that plan. Can't wait to see the next one!
Thanks! I'm going to do the same and set up the rest of these LED in my closets
I am totally going to do this!
Caveat is I am in an apartment so it has to be removable, but my apartment has modular cabinets that have atleast 1/4" between each, 5/8" 'valance' under each cabinet, and 12" running above the cabinets. Controller above cabinets, drop wires between for the lights!
Great video, thank you!
‘Transformers’ transform AC voltages to other AC voltages.
LEDs need DC current, so an LED driver needs to convert AC to DC. A driver [ probably ] actually has a transformer inside to step down mains voltage, a rectifier to convert AC to DC and then maybe some other power electronics to produce a clean DC constant current source.
That totally makes sense! Thanks for solving that mystery 🙌
@@MichaelAlmAlso quick note, $100 for a simple DC 12V or 24V power supply is absurd. Those can be bought for less than $20 with 10A or about 120W for 12V units. There is absolutely no reason to be paying that much for one
@@aleksastojanov4033 Actually, you are incorrect. While you can get a standard 24v brick for cheap, when you want to use a house dimmer switch, you need a "magnetic" dimmer to be able to dim the lights. The dimmer that normally would dim 120v. The magnetic driver can compensate for the 120v dimming and relate that to teh low-voltage side.
Finally, while $100 is a lot, about the cheapest I found was $60 (for a reliable one). Look for a brand called Inexaccessories (B0CP7D89YW). I just got it and it seems to work well.
@@aleksastojanov4033 Note that the $99 "driver" he bought also supports dimming...
Although you can handle that with a $2 PWM dimmer module and any LED smart controller. (Or, a PWM dimmer module with a knob).
They have a hf trafo but it goes after the rectifier
I thought I knew how to do this! But, if Michael Alm’s doing it, it’s worth learning again 👍🙏
For future servicing I thought it's better to just use wago lever nuts instead of soldering. There are also low voltage wago nuts for cheaper option.
So nice that you even mention the CRI value, as a videographer I really appreciate that :)
Thanks for sharing this, always love the attention to detail you put in your projects. Some people had some great comments already on the importance of CRI, color temperature, etc. This may not be a detail that many of your customers use but I've wired a lot of my furniture/in wall lighting with 6 conductor wire just so I have the option of going full RGB CCT in the future. Wire is inexpensive and who knows what one might want to change to 5-10 years down the road. Keep up the good work.
Every Tool is a Hammer - that's how I roll 😁 One of the best explanations of types of lighting and what/why to pick the differences. Thank you!
Michael, first-rate vid and appreciate your attention to detail. However, you did leave out one aspect I've been trying to get answered for my project: what level of light do you need over the counters?
Here are some other questions I had while watching:
- What gauge wire did you use to interconnect your LED strips between one-another?
- Is your LED strip setup dimmable?
- Are the strips a fixed color temperature?
- With the COB LEDs, could you have gone with a clear channel cover instead of frosted in order to have less light loss? The COBs have a diffusive layer above the actual LEDs.
Thanks, and this video got me to subscribe to the channel.
Would love to see a reply from Michael with the specifics, but in the meantime...
-- I don't know what wire gauge he used, but for low-voltage stuff, you almost never will need bigger than 18 AWG. It does depend on just how much lighting you're trying to run off the same wire, but most of the time you'll run into aesthetic issues related to voltage drop before you overload the wiring and will want to upgrade the wiring size for that reason anyway. In practice, 20 or 22 AWG is usually fine. There are online calculators you can use to be sure though. Take your amperage, add 25% (for constant load situations, all wiring and equipment should be sized so that you're only using 80% of the rated load), and see what gauge wire is required.
-- The driver he took from his shop lighting is dimmable. You can tell either by looking up the make/model # online (pulled from the closeup shot he provides of the driver), or just noticing at the end when he's testing the lights, that he goes through a dimming range of the lights.
-- The LED strips used here have a single color temp. Of course, if you want to get fancy you can use temp adjustable LEDs, or even RGB, but those would require a more complicated wiring setup, as well as a different kind of light switch, or at least a remote control tied into the system somehow.
-- I wonder about the diffuser myself. Honestly, with the COB strip, I probably wouldn't have even bothered with the diffuser. It's just going to keep airflow away from the strip, which likely will shorten the life of the strip, and the COB style LEDs already have very even light. That said, my own preference might not be relevant, since I wouldn't use the COB strip in the first place. For my own kitchen, I used regular strips with 2832 LEDs, relying on higher density spacing (120/m) and a diffuser to even out the light. In a previous very-low-budget install, I was just using strips with 60/m spacing and no channel or diffuser, and even there I rarely noticed any unevenness of the light; occasionally I'd catch a glimpse of the individual LEDs reflecting from the toaster or microwave, but the illumination of tasks was still great.
With the 120/m and a diffuser, you can only notice the individual LEDs if looking directly at the light strip, and of course since it's carefully installed under the cabinets where you're not able to see the lights directly, this is completely fine.
The big plus of aluminium channels is that they increase the dissipation area so your LEDs will be able to dissipate heat faster making them last longer. Besides, you can install diffusers which will help with non-COB LEDs.
If you’re retrofitting you can also put in a false bottom on the inside of your cabinets to make the same kind of negative space you had between your cabinet and valence
Thank you!!!!! Best most practical, straight forward and clearly explained video on LED lighting in woodworking on RUclips!!!!!!
Michael that is a Fab kitchen, your skill [& temperament] shine through! Btw I'm super impressed with your mitres on those valences. I always used to consider sub-contracting Jon Peters to cut my mitres (lol) but I'd have every confidence that you'd give the 'mitre-king' a run for his money!
This was super, super helpful. I've always just thrown my hands up and used hidden LED tubes instead. Never even heard of CRI. Gonna go click your Amazon links.
So glad it was helpful!
your level of patience and persistence is insane. great work!
Bandages all over your fingers. I love it :-)
I've been doing tons of pattern plywood stuff, because of you. I'm thoroughly enjoying it. Thank you so much. Take care.
awesome tutorial! If I had the tools, I could easily do it on my own just by following your video step by step.
You can put up LED strips with very minimal tools! Just get the aluminum channels, they come with diffusers and screws.
If your cabinets already have a lip at the bottom, just fasten em there!
And you don't even need any soldering! You can just use lever nuts, crimp connectors, the included barrel jacks (if compatible), solderless splice connectors, etc...
and if you need to cut a strip and add wires between, you can probably buy connectors meant for that style of strip that just push on the ends.
This is where a very small amount of soldering skill can be convenient, so you aren't relying on these push-on connectors and can totally customize your wire length, but you don't technically need to.
For most standard cabinet installs I've seen, it's super easy to hide the wires. There's usually a little gap between cabinet boxes, so you can just run it up and over, no holes required. Might have to try to hide the wire running from front to back, but no one's going to look there anyway.
Thanks very much for the demystification Michael. Mine turned out awesome 👌
THANK YOU for making an intelligent and fully instructive video, and not employing the goofy acting and silly antics of the low-intelligence DIY entertainment videos.
When cutting the miters at 3:30, any reason you're changing the angle on your miter saw instead of just flipping the other workpieces over to the right side of the saw? Assuming the miter saw fence is straight you'd get your complimentary angles without the chance of small mismatches in the angle, it would also be faster.
Hello, I’d like to add that you can consider cutting the led strip shorter so that the light at the end of the track doesn’t create hot spotting on the cabinet wall. LED is a very sharp light, so you need to keep its distance away from items to provide a nice even glow. Thank you for your video.
I'm not gonna comment on the woodworking or LEDs explanation, those are amazing as always.
I'm commenting to say that I love the usage of Adam Savage's book :D Very fitting I would say :D
You, Are, DaMan! You are very skilled, my friend.
Electrical Engineer here, the reason it is called a driver rather than a transformer is that a transformer is explicitly a device that converts AC power to a different voltage of AC power. LED are diodes and produce light when power is fed through them in one direction, thus the AC power will need to be transformed down to 24V and then passed through a rectifier to turn it into smooth DC power that is suitable to drive the LEDs
thats kinda BS, since that would mean all laptop chargers would be called 'drivers' as well. It's mainly called a 'LED driver' because it's a device that... drives LEDs.
Also usually a switching regulator with no transformer in sight.
@@112Haribo well laptop bricks are not chargers at all, they are just power supplies. Charging circuit is in the laptop
@@chrisw1462 it has a transformer, just a small high frequency one
@@riba2233 Nope.. only one winding, so it's an inductor.
Michael, you’re a great teacher. I’ve learned a ton from you over the years, thank you!
beautiful job. I can't wait to see the house done! You are doing a fabulous job!
I'm loving this series! Two part comment here... First, thanks for the best LED explanation I've seen pitched to the true amateur level - most content makers kind of gloss over all that with a 'I bought it off Amaeverything, link in description' as if one LED set solves all lighting scenarios; Second, one trick I employ to reduce complexity is to not plow the groove until the miters are all figured out and cut. If your pieces are consistent cross-section, this avoids creating a 'right v. left' component scenario... yes, I have to out-think myself all the time.
Good basic install. Just the beginning of a journey if you are ready for that.
looks really great. i'd recommend using a snap on led connector between the strip and power supply so that you can replace components w/o dealing with resoldering
Great work! Looks wonderful!! What kind of low voltage magnetic dimmer switch did you use?
Ohhh thanks for the LED tutorial! I've been meaning to make fake windows in the house, but LED panels are so expensive! Now that I understand LED strips a little better I might pick up that DIY project again!
Hell yeah. You've got a creative and thorough mind, you'd make a hell of a custom light fixture and wall art line. RUclips has no face in that department either, especially not in this style.
i hope nobody spends $100 on an led driver though. That was the most creative part of the videos lol.
Thank you for taking the time to explain all the details, I'll definitely revisit this video when I do my kitchen!!
Excellent video. Looks like you enjoy being a perfectionist, which is great!
I can't wait for Adam Savage's next book "Every book's a Monitor Riser" Lol
😂😂😂
A couch leveller too ;P
thank you for the valuable advice.
i want to do this in my kitchen. however, my kitchen is "galley" style, so its long and skinny with cabinets are on both sides. im at a loss on how to connect the two sides without unsightly wires on the walls or doing a bunch of drywall work (which is more work than i want to put into this)
i had the thought of running the two sides on separate power supplies then connecting them with smart switches. however, my knowledge of smart plugs and whatnot is very limited so im not 100% sure how i would do that or if its even possible.
@11:25 Transformers in electricity means a physical thing - a block of metal with windings. LED drivers might have a coil, but not a transformer, because they're switching regulators.
The lights came out great. How tall are your upper cabinets? How much clearance do you have between the upper cabinets and the counter top?
Thanks! 19” from the countertops to the cabinets.
Thanks Michael!
Any recommendations for dimmer switches / remotes? I bought the light strip + driver but would like to control them other than plugging them in / unplugging. Mine won't be hardwired to switches as yours are but more like your garage set up.
Nice install. Two questions: 1) what are your thoughts on solder seal heat shrink butt connectors? Seem like it would save one step. 2) What's the plan for replacing the strips when they eventually fail? I realize they strips should last for thousands of hours, but eventually, they will fail and that kitchen seems built to last.
Thanks! I've never tried that style connector, but I'm sure they would work. If the LEDs fail then you unscrew the valances, de-solder the connections, and replace them. I've heard from other commenters that the COB LEDs might have a shorter lifespan, but the aluminum channel helps dissipate heat so that helps them last longer.
Michael. A tip when drilling drywall looking for wiring. Use the hole saw in reverse, it will still cut the drywall easy enough but creates less dust, less bite and if you push too hard the teeth are less likely to damage the cables as they are in reverse mode
Oh my god! You have ALL the gadgets!!
Great walkthrough and a lot of fantastic tips! Going to tackle this in our kitchen this fall, so thank you!
Fantastic work, Michael! It looks fantastic in there! 😃
As someone who cooks, I definitely approve the idea!
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Thanks MC! You too 🙌
Are these strips and transformers "flicker free" on video when you dim them down?
Transformers are passive devices, kind of like a gear reduction but for electricity. The output is proportional to the input. Furthermore, they only work with AC voltage.
Drivers will accommodate for variations in input and regulate the output as a pwm DC output more like a governor, outputting the specified signal regardless of the input (within a specified range). Fancy drivers will let you control the brightness and color by modifying that pwm output, presuming those features are supported by the strip.
Good to know!
Any consideration for just using analogue LEDs in this scenario than digital LEDs?
If anybody is working on your place in the distant future I think they’re gonna be very impressed. 😂 They’re so many details and attention that nobody will ever see or know about.
How would you handle 90 degree turns either above or below cabinets?
If you do multi color LEDs, i usually see power supply as representing the transformer/ac-dc converter, and driver for the part that controls/drives the color outputs.
Nice work!
I would use CCT strips so that you can change the color temp. Warm is good for evening or late at night mood/night light. Then 4000K (daylight) for task lighting. Would suggest using connectors so it is much easier and quicker to change things out if something fails/breaks. I will be adding LED strips in the toe kick area to use as mood lighting or night light.
The company EShine has LED bars that are easy to install, modestly priced and most importantly.... have a hand wave on/off/dim feature. Just wave your hand at a certain spot and it turns on/off. Hold your hand there and it dims.
Great product with screws and caps, or double sided tape.
Is that an induction range? If so do you like it?
Very nice!! And thank you for the 101 on LEDs.
Commonly there are two type of LED drivers I know here (UK) Constant Voltage and Constant Current. For LED strips it's best to have Constant Voltage as LED strips have resistors.
Did you consider using Wago connectors?
I’ve had mixed results with those. Some people love them though
@@MichaelAlm - what issue were you having with them? I was thinking these would be good for making the connection within the valence between the main wiring and the pigtails going to the strip on the valence. This would seem to be more serviceable (?). I solder a lot for electronics, but soldering in a cabinet is... no fun.
That kitchen is turning out fantastic, btw.
@@biedawo I can't speak for Michael, of course. But I've done a similar project in my own kitchen, and found the Wago connectors invaluable.
I didn't hide my wiring with the build valence as here, but my cabinets hide the wires pretty well as they are. Wago's inline connectors are key though. If I were to use their traditional "all the wires come into the same side" connectors, it would be a lot harder to keep the wires running flush inside the corners of the cabinet undersides.
That said, I used the regular ones anywhere I didn't need to hide wires, e.g. where the drivers are plugged in out of sight.
I did a similar project for toe-kick lighting and for that I didn't have the Wagos yet and soldered the connections at the cabinet. It was doable, but it'll be a pain if/when the strips need replacing.
Question, I'm retrofitting some old lights under my cabinets and they are these little glass bulbs on a runner that get super hot and I can't find replacements for them. Anyway, they are all hard wired and connected to a single switch. If I connect the driver to the switch to power the first strip, can I use the existing hard wiring to conned the LEDs from cabinet to cabinet? Does that make sense. Basically it's hard wired as a full power circuit, but if I step down w the driver, do I have to replace the wiring down the line.
22:25 that hand popping in from outside made me giggle.
Same 😂
i came here to write the same comment, LOL!
@@MichaelAlm "Wife? What wife? Where? ...Ohhhhh, that makes sense!"
Is the valence front overhang beyond the door just an esthetic element, or does it make the LED strip lighting more useful?
Any reason you didn't go with diagonal (45 degree) aluminum channels? I'm currently planning my install and also planning on putting the LED strip at the front of the (underside) of the cabinet. 45 degree feels like it makes the most sense... but maybe I'm over-thinking this?
did you go with it? curious to the results. I've considered 45s for a while but never went for it.
A quick note I would make about Color Temperature (as a LOT of people have no idea about this and just randomly grab LED bulbs (can't tell you how many 4000-5000k LED bulbs i've seen in living spaces in houses), the typical Incandescent bulb is a 2700k color temp, some people may find 3000k a little "harsh", I know I did when I bought them but I lived with it because the bulbs I got where so cheap they paid for themselves in a couple months and this was from 10 years ago when the average LED Bulb was $5 or more. So people upgrading from standard bulbs in a residential setting I would advise 2700k for all your bulbs.
When my partner and I go for evening walks around the neighbourhood, we often have a super judgey running commentary going about the houses we pass - all good-natured of course, and wildly hypocritical given the current state of our own place 😅 It's equal parts gathering inspo for future upgrades and just poking fun at questionable design/decor choices, but one thing that always catches my eye is cold-ass lighting, especially in apartment blocks where there's always one glaring blue-white apartment sticking out like a sore thumb.
I saw a house last week that's seared into both my memory and my retinas. It had a huge living room fronted with glass sliding doors so we could see straight in, it was utterly bare (white walls and white tiled floor) apart from a coffee table between two very expensive-looking black leather chesterfield sofas, and the lighting was bright and cold enough to put an Intel R&D laboratory to shame. Like, who the hell is relaxing and feeling at home in that space? I'd be sitting on one of those sofas, doing nothing, with the stress levels of an animal being hunted for sport 😬
@@glittalogik Brands selling "daylight" bulbs as "pure, clean, and energizing" should not be allowed lol.
Maybe fine for task areas, but even then I'd recommend 3500~4500k as a more "neutral" white. Too bad it's hard to find bulbs that aren't either 2700K or 5000K/6500K... And don't get me started on tint, lol.
Daylight bulbs (especially 6500k) are just not pleasant indoors at night!
Also, Philips sells "Warm Glow" dimmable LED bulbs that go from 2700K to 2200K as you dim, for a VERY pleasant cozy glow as they get dimmer!
Btw, my recommendation for the most pleasing, non-green no-flicker LED bulb with great color rendering: the GR Reveal HD+.
Widely available (Lowe's, Target, Online, etc), not super expensive, and they're just really nice. 2850K but not harsh at all.
Compare to whatever LED bulb came with your house, and it makes those looks sickly green - if anything, these are a bit "rosy" due to the special glass/coating. They're also full frosted glass bulbs, just like the old incandescent, rather than plastic half-globes.
Another good recommendation is the IKEA TRADFRI smart bulbs! Surprisingly good color rendering for the price, and they're widely supported.
2700k is bs and we need to move away from it
@@joegibes Typo: Its GE Reveal
Did you consider using threaded inserts + machine screws to attach the valences to the bottom of the cabinets? I'm more of an electronics guy than a woodworker, but I've found that those are a little more robust to being repeatedly disassembled/reassembled.
Threaded inserts would be an upgrade for sure, but I don't think they will be removed often enough to strip out the screw threads.
For heat shrink I would recommend using white colored tube I found out from the specs and testing clear tubing actually isn't fire rated from most manufacturers I've used. Hiding any red/black wire from light reflections is good anyways.
Great video. My kitchen lighting as bad. Might have to try an upgrade after watching this. What is your reason for going for the full stove vs separate cook top and oven? (not sure what you call it in english). Personal preferanse or is this just the most normal where you live?
Thanks! Glad the video was helpful. I picked out the oven stove combo partly because it’s what I’m used to, but also because I was having trouble figuring out a good place for a cabinet oven. They look cleaner, but with this size kitchen it would’ve been a less efficient use of space.
My preference is to offset the LED strip about 1-2" from the light rail (valance) so there isn't a harsh shadow on the countertop since they stick out more than the uppers.
Thank you for the information, you explained some things about buy LEDs that I didn’t know. I have been looking for some LEDs and this will definitely help.
Perfection!!!!! Nice Job Micheal
Great video, thanks for sharing. You are doing some very nice work there.
There is another major problem with LED lights that I’ve noticed more and more lately especially with strips like these but also cheap bulbs. Many often have insufficient UV filtering!
With some it’s so bad that you will get a slight backlight effect at dim settings! However, most can’t be seen but cause a much bigger problem, bleaching. You’ll first notice the plastic diffuser turn yellow or orangish over the space of several months to a few years. In some cases items near the light will also start to bleach as if left out in the sun!
I would love to find a reviewer that can measure for this somehow. Being confident that a LED strip won’t yellow over time or bleach your work area would be incredibly helpful.
I'm just going to come out and ask...how much to make a house call to NC?
Has anyone had experience with touch sensor for on/off and dimming of LEDs? Looking for something unintrusive to cabinets that allows 'hidden switching' of the lights within the doors that have glass fronts.
Your attention to detail is superb.
Which dimmer switch did you install with those components? I bought nearly the same items to test: BTF COB strips (but 12v) and a plug-in 100W power supply. I got stuck trying to find information about pairing the driver to a dimmer switch. My kitchen is hardwired with a single-pole, non-dimmable switch connecting two runs of CFL tube surface-mount lights. I was trying to avoid putting a driver between each run on the switch, but I couldn't figure out if it should be that way because of the original electrical layout. Maybe better to consult an electrician?
Can't speak for Michael, but I've pretty much settled on Lutron's Diva line of dimmers. They are less expensive than the equivalent Leviton option, don't require a neutral in the box (though in my case that wouldn't be a problem, but it still makes the wiring simpler), work with three-way circuits, and are designed specifically to work with dimmable fluorescent or LED lights, including a little potentiometer that controls where the lower end of the dimming range the dimmer will actually be (this is useful when dealing with less expensive fixtures that can't handle the lowest levels of dimming, and wind up flickering when you get too low...setting the dimmer to a higher minimum allows the user to slide the dimmer over its full range without worrying about getting into the "flicker zone").
Of course, you still need a LED driver that is compatible with dimmers. Many are, but some aren't so make sure you're getting the right thing.
One consideration on the dimmers is that they will have a maximum wattage rating. For a kitchen install, it's highly unlikely you'd come close to the max, but if you're controlling a wider area of LED lighting with a larger driver, it could be a consideration. Especially if you wind up putting a couple of these dimmer switches next to each other, because the wattage rating goes down if they have less room to breath (it's largely about heat dissipation, and putting them next to each other reduces how quickly they can dissipate heat).
I don't like the Leviton's visual style, frankly, and other than the cost that's the main reason I don't use those. I prefer the very low profile slider that the Lutron dimmers use, over the big fat almond-shaped thumb handle that Leviton uses. But some people might prefer the latter, since it's easier to see and use, and maybe even like the look. Leviton's dimmers are also a bit more compact, which can be nice if the switch box is tight on space. If I recall, they also have a model that has a higher wattage rating, though off the top of my head I think the rating is 300W for Lutron and 500W for the higher rated Leviton, and frankly even 300W is likely way higher than would be needed in most situations.
End of the day, either Lutron or Leviton make good dimmers and both have models designed specifically to be compatible with dimmable LED drivers. There might be other brands; just make sure it's from a reliable company like Feit, Philips, etc. and not some fly-by-night low-budget brand, and look for the same features that Lutron and Leviton offer.
@@harvey66616 Thanks, I'll take a closer look at Lutron's current line. I redid my garage with Maestro motion switches tied into existing ceiling mounted motion sensors. That was confusing enough to figure out by sorting through the junction boxes.
My kitchen has 120v AC to each CFL tube fixture under the cabinets + one CFL can light over the sink. All together once replaced with LEDs it shouldn't draw more than 115W, so even a 150W switch could probably handle it. I started planning it out during the pandemic but sidelined it because so many drivers just had no supply I couldn't get the kind I thought were specced right.
The "easy" way is probably putting a driver in front of each strip and use a standard AC dimmer, but I know it'll cost more and be annoying to hide them. I can't see what's in the wall (stone backsplashes) but I'm still trying to figure out if it's possible to use one driver and replace the AC to each fixture with low-voltage. That's probably how it would be wired new today (I'm guessing) for a custom lighting job.
@@BrendanFalkowski I don't know what's legal to code, but...seems like your last idea should be feasible, if you can access the wiring at any convenient spot before it reaches the cabinet (and overhead).
I.e. house wiring is overkill for LED low voltage, but it will still work great to carry the low voltage you need. It'd just be a matter of hooking things up.
The tricky part will be how the hot and neutral wires are dealt with. But "modern" wiring probably uses Romex-style cabling, so there are two wires (plus ground) going to each fixture and you can reuse those for the +/- for the DC voltage. And it seems to me electricians like the daisy-chain things, as opposed to a home-run type parallel circuit, so in theory you should be able to find _some_ place downstream of the switch where you can use the LED driver to change what the cable's carrying from mains to low voltage.
If you're really lucky, the cabling goes from the switch to the can light first and then continues from there to the cabinets, so you could hide the LED driver in the ceiling next to the can light (i.e. I'd guess that would be easier, since there's already a hole in the ceiling for the can :) ).
In that case, you might even keep the can at 120V, because the LED cans usually have the driver built in already (especially the retrofit ones) and so are designed to be powered from the mains voltage. You'd just split the mains source there, running the can and the LED driver from the switched power, and then using the cabling continuing to the cabinets to power the LEDs installed there, hooking it to the output of the LED driver.
I don't know how much cabinet length you have to light, but I'd guess you'll come nowhere near 115W. My own project, I had 5.25m (about 17') of undercabinet length to light, using 2832 LEDs on a 120 LED/m strip, and the power requirement including the 25% headroom was only about 80W.
@@harvey66616 Ah great, those are some really good points. I didn't consider being able to re-use the Romex for low-voltage because nobody would install that. I'll have to check if codes frown on that because I'd assume Romex = 120v without testing it.
The switch is splits the left/right wing of cabinets, and is directly beneath the can light. My guess is left/right/can are home runs with the left and right daisy chaining to each under cabinet fixture (3 on each side). I can disconnect them one by one to figure out the flow.
You're right, it'd be really nice if left/right meet at the overhead can. That would make access much easier since the CFL can is coming out. But I feel like they'd just home run from the switch at chest height behind the backsplash, rather than running up/down for each wing.
My cabinet run is about 5 meters too, so I was calculating with the FCOB 480 LEDs/m strips I got for testing. They use 9W/meter so 45W under cabinet + 45W above cabinet (may add later with less output) + 25W for the can light (safe guess what the CFL can uses now). All in it probably will be < 100W.
@@BrendanFalkowski Yeah, I can see how the COB strips might be more power.
As for code, I have no idea. I only know bits and pieces of the NEC, and nothing related to this, so I'm not much help in your case. That said, I _think_ since code is mostly about preventing fires and electrocutions, changing a circuit over to low-voltage is probably fine? Seems like the scenario is not much different from just abandoning a circuit, and the NEC allows that just with the caveat that if the cable isn't removed, you still need boxes and cover plates over each end of the cable run.
I guess when you get the switch open, you'll be able to see if there's more than one load connected to the switch terminals (i.e. with a pigtail hooked up to multiple cables going out). If so, then I guess it'd probably be easiest to just get a driver each for the left and right cabinets, and figure out somewhere to hide each nearer the cabinet it powers, and use a retrofit can light, which will have the driver built in.
On the bright side, it probably wouldn't be much different in expense, since the driver cost goes down with the rated power, and if you use two drivers instead of one, you only need half the power from each! :)
Michael, I loved the video and I learned a ton from it, but, man, you have Adam Savage's book as "height block" for your monitor. Oh, man, use a "lesser" book for that. 😂. Again, great video.
Why didn’t you make it flush with the cabinet doors?
Seriously awesome video. Appreciated.
Every time you show your reveal clips I want to watch airwolf. Any great directors out there. Please remake airwolf.
Can you give any information on the clear palm router dust cover/vacuum port?
It comes with the Milwaukee M18 palm router. Works really well!
why do we need to use 12v led strips and not installing AC led strips directly?
I really enjoy your videos Michael. Keep it up 😍😍. I am waiting for the pattern plywood, I have a feeling that you will do something great with it it in the kitchen ❤️❤️
Thank you! More patterned ply soon 😉
@@MichaelAlm 😍😍😍😍😍😍🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹
You may just drill the hole for wiring through the aluminium diffuser as well to pass the wire through. Once the strip is glued to the aluminium you cannot access the screws holding the diffuser anyway.
Awesome. One thing though, you put screws under the valances for 'maintenance', but soldered the LEDs to the wire.
De-soldering is pretty easy. I know because I had to do it a couple times 😂
Funny thing. This is a new installation and you only put lighting on the bottom of the cabinets. Lighting in the cabinets would be easy to do and would add a wow to the cabinets as well. You would have to add one more thing, a door trigger. You would also have to calculate the wattage difference for the transformer.
I work in HVAC and I usually shy away from 2-Wire. I'm of the mindset I would rather run 5-Wire to have spare wire if it is ever needed or I need to repurpose.
Since all of the base cabinets along a side are already connected, and this is low voltage wiring, another approach could be to run the low voltage wires from behind the uppers down to the bases before drywall is installed (or cut holes and fish same after drywall is installed) and then have a chase between the base cabinets along the back near the countertop so that you can then connect all the low voltage wires together. One of the base cabinets can then have an outlet where the driver can be placed, making it more convenient to replace when it ultimately fails.
Very nice my friend. I’m going to upgrade mine too :). It’s looking so good!
Thanks Fantin!!
FYI: When going from AC to DC, voltage is rectified. From DC to AC it is inverted. Transformers increase or decrease AC voltage. Since LEDs will burn themselves out, a driver is used limit current and voltage.
I like the V shape channel you can place it at the back