no way Salem belongs here. he got screwed by Rios AGAIN trying to be the hero and left to die. Canonically Rios shot Salem in AOT2 but Salem survived. this was the 2nd time Rios chose others over Salem hell yeah he became an enemy.
Ellie definitely aint the villain of TLoU2. Having her own "terms of enrampagement" (working title) on the basis of revenge is very different than being an outright villain.
@@OversoulGaming the villain of the story (abby) killing joel for revenge caused ellie to go on her own revenge path...so her "villainy" was response to the games actual villain
I wouldn’t call Ellie a villain. She’s one of many morally grey characters that make up The Last of Us. There are definitely villains in the series but the majority of them are doing what they must to survive not because they’re inherently evil.
Joel was the villain in the first game, he f. Everyone in the world because he didn't want to lose another daughter, she is like Joel, she only cares about them
That's a conclusion you can only come to based entirely on biased perspective. If you look at it with nuance, you'll see that every character is a villain and they all exist in a moral gray area. There is no hero in that game
@@MrCjosue24 They did this thing before with Jill Valentine. Just like Richter Belmont, Jill Valentine did not become a villain in RE5 willingly as she was mind controlled.
@@MrCjosue24 And yet What Culture Gaming couldn’t notice the very obvious device on Jill’s chest. At least with Richter Belmont, it isn’t very noticeable that he is mind controlled, as the only way you can tell is his personality is different.
There is no real legit "villain" in the world of TLOU other than some strange/bad communities. The closest you can get to that (that we've seen) is somebody like: - David (kills, eats people and has a thing for kids...) - The rattlers captures, tortures and uses people as slaves (among other bad things) - The Hunters who just kill people for a pair of shoes etc.
You forgot Joel, who murders the people trying to find an end to the cordyceps fungus and who may genuinely have been the last hope for humanity, all because they were going to kill Ellie. To save the world.
@@WhatTheFirstAidSpray Yeah Joel isn't "good" and has 1000% done really bad things (like that and his hunter days) but in that case did what he did out of love and selfishness. Very morally grey (most of the time) like MOST characters in TLOU.
@@WhatTheFirstAidSprayThis framing is stupid. The fireflies utterly failed to hold up their end of the original agreement they made with Joel and Tess, they took Ellie from Joel when she was unconscious, they wouldn't let him see her, they didn't ask her consent to perform the procedure, there was no guarantee the procedure would even work, and they took zero time to try to determine whether there was a way to develop a vaccine that wouldn't kill her. Every step of the way, the fireflies behaved in unethical fashion. No person OWES their life to the rest of humanity. This is the sort of take you arrive at when you choose act utilitarianism vs rule utilitarianism, and it's amazing to me how many people think this way.
Abby's group could've killed Ellie but didn't, even after she sliced one of their faces. Ellie did not show them the same mercy. All I'm saying is that Abby killed only her target(even saving him before knowing his identity), while Ellie killed everybody but her target (not finishing the job when she had it).
@@raymondbermudez555Abby's the villain for sure she beat Joel to death for no real reason in front of what's pretty much his daughter and worse than that she survived all the way through the game.
Elle is not a villain, And believing so kind of indicates that you missed the entire message of the game. The actions of both were justified in their own minds and violence is cyclical. Spoilers: The end shows both characters choosing to end that cycle of violence in their own way.
Based on what you just said that technically does make her a villain. The message of the game is that Justice is heroic but vengeance is villainous and an endless cycle of torture and pain. So with that in mind, every character in the game is a villain that lives in a moral gray area
@@TheOmegaDragon She did not know the woman is pregnant and felt genuine sorrow for what she did. Abby on the other hand was about to kill pregnant Dina AFTER being informed of Dina's condition. She even responded:"Good." . Lev's intervention stayed Abby's hand .
@@GameslordXY Fact is Ellie killed, Abby did not. Ellie killed so much more deliberately to get back at the wolves. Only time Ellie stayed her hand was so that Abby could get Lev help. Lev was owed that much.
Abby and Ellie are their own villains. Andres wasn't a villain, he was being corrupted by the spirit that he took in. Yes he misguided doesn't make him a villain.
If I recall correctly doctor Vahlen became extreme in her method but she was looking for a way to defeat the aliens while creating the monsters, so she technically didn't turn against humanity.
As people are pointing out Richter Belmont was not a villain willingly. If you were going to put a Castlevania game on this list, you probably should have gone with Lords of Shadow as Gabriel Belmont literally becomes Dracula.
Nope. Abby and Ellie are both equally guilty of evil. Neither one is better than the other they are both villains of each other's story but Heroes of their own. It's morally Gray. that is the only correct answer. Looking at it any other way is a intentional misinterpretation based on bias
Pretty disappointed it didn’t make the list. It’s the perfect example too because it’s one of the few games I can think of that made the bad ending from its previous game the canon ending.
Could've sworn, Last Of Us 2 or at least the defenders and Neil said there is no good guy/bad guys in Last of Us 🤔🤔🤔 why are we saying Ellie is a villain?
Because paradoxically, in order for there to be no good guys or bad guys, everyone must be a good guy and a bad guy simultaneously. If there are no good guys then everyone is a bad guy. If there are no bad guys then everyone is a good guy. Therefore everyone exists in a moral gray area and is simultaneously both good and bad and neither good nor bad at the same time. Schrodinger's villain if you will
@@evolancer211 They did a similar thing in a list with this type of content where they said Jill Valentine became a villain in RE5. And just like Richter Belmont, Jill Valentine was brainwashed.
Well to be fair, they didn't specify that these are people who chose to become villains. Just that they became villains. They never specified that it had to be a choice. So technically it still fits. Since there's no specified differentiation in the video title, one could surmise that you are just being pedantic
I disagree that Ellie becomes the villain in TLOU2. But I'm also not saying she's the hero. I'm saying that TLOU2 really drives home the idea that there ARE no purely good or evil characters. That everyone has lived their own tragic, broken lives... has been damaged by it... and is reacting to that damage rather than responding to it in a more carefully thought-out way. (GAME SPOILERS AHEAD) We start out the game thinking that Ellie is the good guy and that Abby is the bad guy because she killed Joel, who we also see as a good guy. Killing the good guy is BAD. Abby is BAD. Killing the bad guy is the good, righteous thing to do... right? Except that's the WHOLE POINT of TLOU2. That revenge is futile. In the end of the first game, Joel kills a whole bunch of people, one of whom happens to be Abby's father, to rescue Ellie. In Abby's mind, JOEL is the bad guy because her father was trying to save everyone from the infection. In her mind, that made her killing Joel righteous, because not only had he killed her father, but he'd doomed the whole world. (But let's be honest, it's like 99.99999% because he killed her father.) Ellie comes after Abby for much the same reason. Her father figure, with whom she'd had a big blow-up and was JUST going to begin to reconcile with, gets killed. She goes after Abby. Loads of people HATE the game's shift to Abby because they don't WANT to get to know her. They don't WANT to empathize with her. They don't want to (gasp) maybe even like her a little because she's the BAD guy. The bad guy HAS to be killed. But there are no good guys or bad guys in the TLOU games. There is no black or white. There are only shades of gray. Everybody is good in the own way and bad in their own way. Everyone does good things and bad things. Everybody is broken by the circumstances around them. I'm not saying for a second that it validates Ellie's actions any more than I'm saying it validates Abby's. I'm saying EVERYBODY is fucked up.
Happy to see I’m not the only Sole Survivor who wanders the Fallout 4 wasteland in an armored blue bathrobe! Hey, the post-apocalypse is stressful. Comfort is key!
I don't see Madison li as a villain because the reason we went to the institute is since she believed the brotherhood of steel would end up killing her for what she knew and wanted to be safe from them plus after losing James and thinking his child was dead she had no reason to stay and the people in the institute does care about her but the brotherhood of steel would just use her
Mechwarrior 4: Vengeance. You get to play as Ian Dresari in the main game, fighting to free his home planet, only to see him become its tyrannical leader in the Black Knight expansion pack. 😭
Not really sure how you can call Madison Li a villain! She switched sides because she didn’t agree with the brotherhood and the institute has better tech. In my opinion the institute is the way forward
I personally would've chosen wilhelm as the borderlands representative. In borderlands the Pre-Sequel he gives out subtle clues about becoming and wanting to be a robot.Hell even parts of his body was replaced by mechanical parts much like cyborg. Fast forward to borderlands 2 and almost every part of Wilhelm with the exception of his head is mechanized as the transformation from hero to villain became complete.
He was a protagonist, not a hero. He's a villain protagonist, like most of the rest of the cast. Zarpadon was actually the hero, as she was trying to stop Jack from becoming Handsome Jack spreading mass genocide
Ellie was NOT a villain. The world of LOU doesn’t have villains just people trying to survive in a post apocalyptic world. Hell even Abby isn’t a villain. An antagonist sure but not a villain.
Ellie was forced to watch someone she loved a father figure be brutally tortured and beaten to death. she had every right to revenge, sure pregnant mouse lady got killed because SHE attacked her, Ellie defended herself. and in the end she didn't even kill Abby. she let her live. a villain doesn't let their enemy live.
Does no one else realize that the line "You either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain" is meaningless tautology? It appears to say something but actually has no way of being wrong. The only two options are being a hero or a villain, so that line was like saying "You will either always wear a shirt or at some point not wear a shirt." I think the actual point of the line was that Harvey was a skilled politician who can make anything sound profound.
Cool story but Ellie threatens to murder and injured, unconscious child and Abby is moments away from happily cutting a pregnant woman's throat..... they're villains wether you like it or not, it's ok that they're villains too, but please don't be one of those fangirls who defends them
@@Lubble- just because Ellie threatened it doesn't mean she'd have done it. but even if she had. we're not talking about an innocent bystander. we're talking about someone who helped hunt down and brutally murder someone Ellie loved. same for Abby. in both cases the pregnant woman willingly helped killed their loved one(s) if they didn't want to get killed they shouldn't have killed
@@ryancraig110 Really you couldn’t tell from the multiple mistakes they make in OTHER countless lists? Not to be mean, but at this point, it’s not surprising that they keep making mistakes just to piss gamers off.
@@krvgames9258 let me clarify I mean obvious and egregious mistakes most of the ones they make nowadays are boring and I just end up skimming through the videos because they are really tedious to get through if you have watched as many as I have you would do the same
Can't really make a mistake in a list that's completely subjective. This is Media literate interpretations from people who went to film School. They therefore have more credentials than you on such matters
You guys missed a couple of big obvious ones here. The hero from Diablo canonically becomes Diablo in Diablo 2. And I'll admit I never played it, but wasn't Alex Mercer the antagonist of Prototype 2?
Ellie a villain? Uh that's a hard NO! if something tlou showed us is that almost nobody is a completly good person. Joel wasn't, ellie wasn't, Tommy wasn't and on the other side we have Abby not being completly a villain, Marlene wasn't either
Love the list WC! I just wanted to point out that half of the “cinematic” footage you used during the Arthas segment was actually Bolvar Fordragon who took up the mantle of the Lich King after Arthas’ defeat! Thank you for including Arthas! WoW doesn’t get enough love a lot of the time! Also…Ellie 100% is the villain of TLOU2.
Kratos has never been portrayed as a hero he is more of an anti-hero in the ancient Greece based games - he saves the day but its for his own selfish reasons. in the third God of war he kills any of the gods that got in between him and his goal of killing Zeus. Kratos never sold himself as the good guy and no one ever called him the good guy he just did what he wanted to/ had to do and F whoever got in his way. by the time the Norse based GOW games come around he just wants a quiet life away from the troubles of other gods and mortals. He wants to be hidden away which his wife knew so that's why she made him promise to get rid of trees she had her hand print on (which was her protective magic) for her pyre. in those games Kratos has been dragged into the Gods issues and he was reluctant to be involved it wasn't until Baldur was going to kill his mother he intervened and thus set about the start of Ragnarok. in those Norse based games he is a reluctant hero
He was never a Hero, just a man out on Vengeance for himself stopping anyone in his way. if anything with the new games he’s becoming a hero but he was never one to start with
Ellie is 110% a villain. What Abby did to Ellie by killing Joel is exactly what Joel did to Abby when he killed her father. You were never the hero in the Last of Us
I don't think Dr. Valen was confirmed to be working for the occupiers. Always thought she was planning on using her creations for her own purposes. And justice for Hammerlock. They completely derailed her character 'cus they were too lazy to create a new villain for the Jakobs plot.
And which characters begged Ellie for mercy? Do enlighten me please? She does kill pregnant woman out of self defence(more or less), not knowing she is pregnant. When she realises it , she pukes in despair . Would villain do that? She even spared Abby in the end. Plus knowingly with intention she murdered ZERO civilians and children.
Richter Belmont was only a villain because he was brainwashed. I wonder if that incident was the reason the Belmonts couldn't use the whip for a while. I don't recall Richter being that difficult. I wouldn't consider Ellie a villain. The people she goes after are bad people. 10:13 Sauron can defeat this guy.
Couple of factual errors in this one (oh Goddess, I'm going to be 'that guy'). King Arthas in the first Warcraft game, and the movie, is not the Arthas of the Warcraft 3 and World of Warcraft. The latter is only a prince, named after the earlier man of the same name. For Anders from Dragon Age you get most of it right, but he was only a companion in the expansion pack to Origins, he wasn't the titular Warden himself in the base game or the xpac. He also falls into the same category as the Belmont and Minsc in that their villainy isn't entirely of their own choice and there is some spiritual possession going on (well-intended at the initial event but...) but if the others count for the list, then he does too. No foul. I blame this cursed knowledge nugget from falling into the opium den that was WoW in its heyday and in general being a lore nerd for anything I play.
Eh. I would not really call Sheogorath a "villain" he is a god representing a necessary mantle. the state of mind. insane yet sane, good and evil at the same time. he is the ultimate neutralist neutral force as he can be both helping and hindering you through the usage of his Wabbajack. also Ellie in TLOU is no villain, just made so by an SBI psychosis
Allie? No. On a revenge plot, surely, but that doesn't make her the villain. I think it was poorly handled overall trying to force the audience to hate the protagonists of the first game, while hating the newly introduced character of Abby.
I’ve been saying Ellie was the villain since i played the game. The simps in the comments don’t see it but she really was but they just can’t get over the Joel thing and see the truth. Ellie WAS the villain of the game. Take off those rosey glasses and see the truth.
LMFAOOOO y'all gamers are something else. I'm sorry to break it to y'all, but if someone kills your surrogate dad (or anyone close to you for that matter) and you go on a murderous cross country rampage (AND in the process leave your partner to be a single mother)...that's pretty villainous, both in a vacuum AND in game context. Like just cuz something traumatic happened to you doesn't mean you get to go Rambo across the western United States. Sure, you can understand where her rage comes from but empathy and understanding does not absolve responsibility for evil deeds - Ellie is a villain.
Man, how did I know before even clicking on this that the comments were going to be filled with people that have no nuance or media literacy? Ellie is a villain. Abby is a villain. Joel is a villain. Everyone equally sucks in that reality. Just like the walking dead, everyone is the hero of their own story and the villain of someone else's. Everyone is both good and bad in those games. They all exist in a moral gray area. Looking at it any other way is an indication of bias
![FNAF vs TF2 - Episode 2 [SFM]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/z5b3V2-VLb0/mqdefault.jpg)
No Army of Two? Your Partner who you thought died in the first one is back and with a major grudge
If you are referring to Salem, even in 3rd one he technically starts off as a hero, so don't know if it should count.
no way Salem belongs here. he got screwed by Rios AGAIN trying to be the hero and left to die. Canonically Rios shot Salem in AOT2 but Salem survived. this was the 2nd time Rios chose others over Salem hell yeah he became an enemy.
You knew exactly what you were doing with that thumbnail, as Mad Max once said "Thats bait...".
@@MrSkuddawg it worked, the fangirls lined up to defend their overrated princess
Ellie definitely aint the villain of TLoU2. Having her own "terms of enrampagement" (working title) on the basis of revenge is very different than being an outright villain.
Ellie killed tons, and I mean TONS of people to get to Abby, and she killed the dog. She's the villain.
Revenge in and of itself is a villainous action. Justice is heroic. Vengeance is villainous
@@TheGhostofMrArthurs was....she supposed to let the dog kill her?
@@OversoulGaming the villain of the story (abby) killing joel for revenge caused ellie to go on her own revenge path...so her "villainy" was response to the games actual villain
@@MrFinster53 two wrongs don't make a right, they just make both parties equally wrong
I wouldn’t call Ellie a villain. She’s one of many morally grey characters that make up The Last of Us. There are definitely villains in the series but the majority of them are doing what they must to survive not because they’re inherently evil.
What ellie did was not to survive
She came this close to becoming one. It's the whole mythical hero bit, you have to go on your villain arc to remember your humanity.
Bruh , where is alex mercer
I was thinking him too but I wouldn't say he's a hero.....
He's already the villain from first game, but he's the protagonist
@@gerardwolf8507 yeah but the title doesn't say protagonist
@@Lubble- oh , thanks, didn't notice he was talking about heroes not protagonists
Ellie a villainess? Yeah right
Joel was the villain in the first game, he f. Everyone in the world because he didn't want to lose another daughter, she is like Joel, she only cares about them
Ellie was the villain though. I say this as someone who hated that stupid games narrative, but make no bones about it, Ellie is the villain
@@TheGhostofMrArthurs narrative was fine, dont be a bigot darling >:)
she is. ellie bad :(
@@mr.kwamid-86_43 you are right , and her worst mistake was not killing that buffed dude at the end. cheers
I call Ellie being a villain bullshit
An me
Naughty Dog was the villain for that sequel
I just don't get why the sequel kinda scared away players in the first place...
She's more of an anti-hero than baddie compared to the first one.
Ok what would you call her then
No, you're right, she's a straight-up hero. Just like Abby ☺️
I say Abby was the villain of TLOU2.
In the perspective of the player and the rest of Jackson yes 100%
That's a conclusion you can only come to based entirely on biased perspective. If you look at it with nuance, you'll see that every character is a villain and they all exist in a moral gray area. There is no hero in that game
@@OversoulGaming can't be a villain if they're morally grey. that's kind of the point of morally grey. everyone is SOMEONE'S villain sure.
Richter Belmont did NOT become a villain willingly! He was mind controlled!
Yeah I don't know why he's on this list
@@MrCjosue24 They did this thing before with Jill Valentine. Just like Richter Belmont, Jill Valentine did not become a villain in RE5 willingly as she was mind controlled.
@@krvgames9258I know. Wesker placed that device on her chest that controlled her
@@MrCjosue24 And yet What Culture Gaming couldn’t notice the very obvious device on Jill’s chest. At least with Richter Belmont, it isn’t very noticeable that he is mind controlled, as the only way you can tell is his personality is different.
Same thought! Ritcher doesn't (and shouldn't) be counted on this list.
There is no real legit "villain" in the world of TLOU other than some strange/bad communities.
The closest you can get to that (that we've seen) is somebody like:
- David (kills, eats people and has a thing for kids...)
- The rattlers captures, tortures and uses people as slaves (among other bad things)
- The Hunters who just kill people for a pair of shoes etc.
You forgot Joel, who murders the people trying to find an end to the cordyceps fungus and who may genuinely have been the last hope for humanity, all because they were going to kill Ellie. To save the world.
@@WhatTheFirstAidSpray Yeah Joel isn't "good" and has 1000% done really bad things (like that and his hunter days) but in that case did what he did out of love and selfishness.
Very morally grey (most of the time) like MOST characters in TLOU.
@@WhatTheFirstAidSpray Cause the Firefly hasn't murdered people right?
@@WhatTheFirstAidSprayThis framing is stupid. The fireflies utterly failed to hold up their end of the original agreement they made with Joel and Tess, they took Ellie from Joel when she was unconscious, they wouldn't let him see her, they didn't ask her consent to perform the procedure, there was no guarantee the procedure would even work, and they took zero time to try to determine whether there was a way to develop a vaccine that wouldn't kill her. Every step of the way, the fireflies behaved in unethical fashion. No person OWES their life to the rest of humanity. This is the sort of take you arrive at when you choose act utilitarianism vs rule utilitarianism, and it's amazing to me how many people think this way.
@@misterhoobomasterEllie threatens to murder an injured, unconscious child.... she's as much a villain as anyone else in the game
Ellie wasn’t a villain. Also y’all forgot about Alex Mercer from Prototype and could have mentioned Elliot Salem from the Army of Two series
1. Ellie was absolutely a villain and 2. Mercer was hardly a hero....
@@Lubble- The Prototype comic fucked up his character
@@High-Pie_Chop not really, it was a natural progression of his character and set him up well in 2
Really?!!! No Alex Mercer In Prototype 2!
You fucked up with Ellie
Can you call Ellie a villain, though??
Abby's group could've killed Ellie but didn't, even after she sliced one of their faces. Ellie did not show them the same mercy.
All I'm saying is that Abby killed only her target(even saving him before knowing his identity), while Ellie killed everybody but her target (not finishing the job when she had it).
@@raymondbermudez555Abby's the villain for sure she beat Joel to death for no real reason in front of what's pretty much his daughter and worse than that she survived all the way through the game.
@@richardekdahl7804No real reason? Are you retarded?
@@richardekdahl7804no real reason? Did you play the 1st game, Joel f. The world because he was too much of a BTC h to lose another daughter
Didn't the fireflies kill a bunch of immune people because they were incompetent.
Elle is not a villain, And believing so kind of indicates that you missed the entire message of the game. The actions of both were justified in their own minds and violence is cyclical. Spoilers:
The end shows both characters choosing to end that cycle of violence in their own way.
Based on what you just said that technically does make her a villain. The message of the game is that Justice is heroic but vengeance is villainous and an endless cycle of torture and pain. So with that in mind, every character in the game is a villain that lives in a moral gray area
She did kill a pregnant woman, and the same pregnant woman saved Lev's sister's life.
@@TheOmegaDragon
She did not know the woman is pregnant and felt genuine sorrow for what she did.
Abby on the other hand was about to kill pregnant Dina AFTER being informed of Dina's condition.
She even responded:"Good." .
Lev's intervention stayed Abby's hand .
@@GameslordXY Fact is Ellie killed, Abby did not. Ellie killed so much more deliberately to get back at the wolves. Only time Ellie stayed her hand was so that Abby could get Lev help. Lev was owed that much.
Abby and Ellie are their own villains. Andres wasn't a villain, he was being corrupted by the spirit that he took in. Yes he misguided doesn't make him a villain.
Dishonorable Mention: Robert Baxter (Time Crisis 5), Kazuya Mishima (Tekken 2) & Jin Kazama (Tekken 6)
If I recall correctly doctor Vahlen became extreme in her method but she was looking for a way to defeat the aliens while creating the monsters, so she technically didn't turn against humanity.
Good list
As people are pointing out Richter Belmont was not a villain willingly. If you were going to put a Castlevania game on this list, you probably should have gone with Lords of Shadow as Gabriel Belmont literally becomes Dracula.
Don’t forget Alex Mercer, who is our protagonist in Prototype 1 and our antagonist in Prototype 2.
Sometimes in each persons Perspective, it depends on the point of view in their own mind.
We All View our own Villains, and we view our own Heroes.
Where’s army of two?
Aby was the villain, her friends & the unborn would still be alive if she didnt guilt trip her friends. Eli did nothing wrong.
Pfft hahaha she threatens to murder an injured, unconscious child, she's a villain like it or not
Nope. Abby and Ellie are both equally guilty of evil. Neither one is better than the other they are both villains of each other's story but Heroes of their own. It's morally Gray. that is the only correct answer. Looking at it any other way is a intentional misinterpretation based on bias
@@OversoulGaming yep, both villains thenz it's fine that they are
@@OversoulGaming please don't be one of those fangirls who protects their favourite characters when people point out how they aren't good
@@OversoulGaming they're villains mate, stop trying to dissect bad characters
FINALLY, AN OUTRO. THANK YOU!
Never saw Legacy of Kain on this topic and yet...
Pretty disappointed it didn’t make the list. It’s the perfect example too because it’s one of the few games I can think of that made the bad ending from its previous game the canon ending.
Could've sworn, Last Of Us 2 or at least the defenders and Neil said there is no good guy/bad guys in Last of Us 🤔🤔🤔 why are we saying Ellie is a villain?
Because just like Joel, they are the villains, they only cared for themselves, kill a bunch of people who are trying to make things better
She's not. Abby is.
Because they knew it would make the video more popular, hence the thumbnail.
Because paradoxically, in order for there to be no good guys or bad guys, everyone must be a good guy and a bad guy simultaneously. If there are no good guys then everyone is a bad guy. If there are no bad guys then everyone is a good guy. Therefore everyone exists in a moral gray area and is simultaneously both good and bad and neither good nor bad at the same time. Schrodinger's villain if you will
@@googamp32both are
What a joke, Ritcher is not a villain, he's brainwashed. That shouldn't count as a good guy turned villain
@@evolancer211 They did a similar thing in a list with this type of content where they said Jill Valentine became a villain in RE5. And just like Richter Belmont, Jill Valentine was brainwashed.
Well to be fair, they didn't specify that these are people who chose to become villains. Just that they became villains. They never specified that it had to be a choice. So technically it still fits. Since there's no specified differentiation in the video title, one could surmise that you are just being pedantic
Minsc being tricked somehow counts too somehow
I disagree that Ellie becomes the villain in TLOU2. But I'm also not saying she's the hero. I'm saying that TLOU2 really drives home the idea that there ARE no purely good or evil characters. That everyone has lived their own tragic, broken lives... has been damaged by it... and is reacting to that damage rather than responding to it in a more carefully thought-out way.
(GAME SPOILERS AHEAD)
We start out the game thinking that Ellie is the good guy and that Abby is the bad guy because she killed Joel, who we also see as a good guy. Killing the good guy is BAD. Abby is BAD. Killing the bad guy is the good, righteous thing to do... right?
Except that's the WHOLE POINT of TLOU2. That revenge is futile. In the end of the first game, Joel kills a whole bunch of people, one of whom happens to be Abby's father, to rescue Ellie. In Abby's mind, JOEL is the bad guy because her father was trying to save everyone from the infection. In her mind, that made her killing Joel righteous, because not only had he killed her father, but he'd doomed the whole world. (But let's be honest, it's like 99.99999% because he killed her father.)
Ellie comes after Abby for much the same reason. Her father figure, with whom she'd had a big blow-up and was JUST going to begin to reconcile with, gets killed. She goes after Abby. Loads of people HATE the game's shift to Abby because they don't WANT to get to know her. They don't WANT to empathize with her. They don't want to (gasp) maybe even like her a little because she's the BAD guy. The bad guy HAS to be killed.
But there are no good guys or bad guys in the TLOU games. There is no black or white. There are only shades of gray. Everybody is good in the own way and bad in their own way. Everyone does good things and bad things. Everybody is broken by the circumstances around them. I'm not saying for a second that it validates Ellie's actions any more than I'm saying it validates Abby's. I'm saying EVERYBODY is fucked up.
Happy to see I’m not the only Sole Survivor who wanders the Fallout 4 wasteland in an armored blue bathrobe! Hey, the post-apocalypse is stressful. Comfort is key!
I don't see Madison li as a villain because the reason we went to the institute is since she believed the brotherhood of steel would end up killing her for what she knew and wanted to be safe from them plus after losing James and thinking his child was dead she had no reason to stay and the people in the institute does care about her but the brotherhood of steel would just use her
Mechwarrior 4: Vengeance. You get to play as Ian Dresari in the main game, fighting to free his home planet, only to see him become its tyrannical leader in the Black Knight expansion pack. 😭
Not really sure how you can call Madison Li a villain! She switched sides because she didn’t agree with the brotherhood and the institute has better tech. In my opinion the institute is the way forward
I personally would've chosen wilhelm as the borderlands representative. In borderlands the Pre-Sequel he gives out subtle clues about becoming and wanting to be a robot.Hell even parts of his body was replaced by mechanical parts much like cyborg. Fast forward to borderlands 2 and almost every part of Wilhelm with the exception of his head is mechanized as the transformation from hero to villain became complete.
He was a protagonist, not a hero. He's a villain protagonist, like most of the rest of the cast. Zarpadon was actually the hero, as she was trying to stop Jack from becoming Handsome Jack spreading mass genocide
Ellie was NOT a villain. The world of LOU doesn’t have villains just people trying to survive in a post apocalyptic world.
Hell even Abby isn’t a villain. An antagonist sure but not a villain.
Vladimir Lem from Max Payne 1 and 2.
Ellie was forced to watch someone she loved a father figure be brutally tortured and beaten to death. she had every right to revenge, sure pregnant mouse lady got killed because SHE attacked her, Ellie defended herself. and in the end she didn't even kill Abby. she let her live. a villain doesn't let their enemy live.
This list wasn’t put together very well, at least half of this is contentious at best
Does no one else realize that the line "You either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain" is meaningless tautology? It appears to say something but actually has no way of being wrong. The only two options are being a hero or a villain, so that line was like saying "You will either always wear a shirt or at some point not wear a shirt." I think the actual point of the line was that Harvey was a skilled politician who can make anything sound profound.
Yup Anders in DA2 was a tough one. Him and my mage were bed buddies.
No prototype? Alex Merceris the protagonist in the first one and the villain in the second
I don't know how Cortana from Halo wasn't on the list
she went corrupt, but I'm still not defending her.
TLOU2 was a revenge story. While you could say there were no full-on heroes among the 2 protagonists, neither were a villain in the story.
Cool story but Ellie threatens to murder and injured, unconscious child and Abby is moments away from happily cutting a pregnant woman's throat..... they're villains wether you like it or not, it's ok that they're villains too, but please don't be one of those fangirls who defends them
@@Lubble- just because Ellie threatened it doesn't mean she'd have done it. but even if she had. we're not talking about an innocent bystander. we're talking about someone who helped hunt down and brutally murder someone Ellie loved. same for Abby. in both cases the pregnant woman willingly helped killed their loved one(s) if they didn't want to get killed they shouldn't have killed
@@TheMeta141 haha imagine defending crap like that....she definitely would of, they're all villains and horrible people wether you like it or not
@@Lubble- must be hard having such a simplistic view of morality
@@TheMeta141 it's a video game....pull your head out and get some perspective
Commenting before I watch. If army of two isn’t on this…
I’m disappointed…
Talion middle earth: shadow of war
The man literally becomes a ringwraith and still doesn't make the list? Don't even get me stared on the shaming mechanic...
@@cynthiateske5647 ikr. He ends up betraying his ideals because he got betrayed
Ellie was NEVER the villain.
There's also poor Siegfried in Soul Edge and Soulcalibur...
That bloody quote from Batman is getting a new lease of cliche life post Doom announcement
Wow when I think whatculture has finally stopped making really obvious mistakes this happens
@@ryancraig110 Really you couldn’t tell from the multiple mistakes they make in OTHER countless lists? Not to be mean, but at this point, it’s not surprising that they keep making mistakes just to piss gamers off.
@@krvgames9258 let me clarify I mean obvious and egregious mistakes most of the ones they make nowadays are boring and I just end up skimming through the videos because they are really tedious to get through if you have watched as many as I have you would do the same
Can't really make a mistake in a list that's completely subjective. This is Media literate interpretations from people who went to film School. They therefore have more credentials than you on such matters
You guys missed a couple of big obvious ones here. The hero from Diablo canonically becomes Diablo in Diablo 2. And I'll admit I never played it, but wasn't Alex Mercer the antagonist of Prototype 2?
Ellie is definitely not a villain.
How many of these are we gonna get through before talking about Diablo?
The writer flubbed their interpretation of Arthas' storyline. He was never king of Lordaeron. He was a prince training as a paladin.
Ellie a villain? Uh that's a hard NO! if something tlou showed us is that almost nobody is a completly good person. Joel wasn't, ellie wasn't, Tommy wasn't and on the other side we have Abby not being completly a villain, Marlene wasn't either
Love the list WC! I just wanted to point out that half of the “cinematic” footage you used during the Arthas segment was actually Bolvar Fordragon who took up the mantle of the Lich King after Arthas’ defeat! Thank you for including Arthas! WoW doesn’t get enough love a lot of the time!
Also…Ellie 100% is the villain of TLOU2.
How does Kain from Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver NOT make this list?
Where is Kratos?
Do you remember what he did to Helios?🌞💀
Kratos has never been portrayed as a hero he is more of an anti-hero in the ancient Greece based games - he saves the day but its for his own selfish reasons. in the third God of war he kills any of the gods that got in between him and his goal of killing Zeus. Kratos never sold himself as the good guy and no one ever called him the good guy he just did what he wanted to/ had to do and F whoever got in his way.
by the time the Norse based GOW games come around he just wants a quiet life away from the troubles of other gods and mortals.
He wants to be hidden away which his wife knew so that's why she made him promise to get rid of trees she had her hand print on (which was her protective magic) for her pyre. in those games Kratos has been dragged into the Gods issues and he was reluctant to be involved it wasn't until Baldur was going to kill his mother he intervened and thus set about the start of Ragnarok. in those Norse based games he is a reluctant hero
More of a reversal IMO. He becomes better as a person in the later sequels.
He was never a Hero, just a man out on Vengeance for himself stopping anyone in his way. if anything with the new games he’s becoming a hero but he was never one to start with
Putting Ellie on here was just to drive engagement. If you are loyal, Abby is the villain. If you aren't they are equally villainous.
Ellie is 110% a villain. What Abby did to Ellie by killing Joel is exactly what Joel did to Abby when he killed her father. You were never the hero in the Last of Us
Cool list 🎮👏
I know it's not technically a sequel but, Far Cry 5 (The Deputy) and New dawn (The Judge)?
Jack Carver from Original Far cry was confirmed to be The Jackal in Far Cry 2. So he counts as well
What, no mention of the hero from Diablo 1?
Should it count? he technically doesn't even do any villainous act until Diablo basically takes over.
I don't think Dr. Valen was confirmed to be working for the occupiers. Always thought she was planning on using her creations for her own purposes.
And justice for Hammerlock. They completely derailed her character 'cus they were too lazy to create a new villain for the Jakobs plot.
And which characters begged Ellie for mercy?
Do enlighten me please?
She does kill pregnant woman out of self defence(more or less), not knowing she is pregnant.
When she realises it , she pukes in despair .
Would villain do that?
She even spared Abby in the end.
Plus knowingly with intention she murdered ZERO civilians and children.
Um I think you mean the guy in Gothic becomes ANTAgonist. Protagonist is the good guy. Oof.
_Kain refused the sacrifice…_
No mention of Reaver from Fable or Alex from Prototype?
Reaver was always a self absorbed asshole, so he doesn't count as falling to the darkside
I'm surprised you didn't add diablo mc
Richter Belmont was only a villain because he was brainwashed. I wonder if that incident was the reason the Belmonts couldn't use the whip for a while. I don't recall Richter being that difficult.
I wouldn't consider Ellie a villain. The people she goes after are bad people.
10:13 Sauron can defeat this guy.
What about the Wanderer from Diablo 1?
Where’s Alex from Prototype?
I'd say Alex Mercer but he was not a hero in Prototype just the protagonist
Couple of factual errors in this one (oh Goddess, I'm going to be 'that guy'). King Arthas in the first Warcraft game, and the movie, is not the Arthas of the Warcraft 3 and World of Warcraft. The latter is only a prince, named after the earlier man of the same name. For Anders from Dragon Age you get most of it right, but he was only a companion in the expansion pack to Origins, he wasn't the titular Warden himself in the base game or the xpac. He also falls into the same category as the Belmont and Minsc in that their villainy isn't entirely of their own choice and there is some spiritual possession going on (well-intended at the initial event but...) but if the others count for the list, then he does too. No foul.
I blame this cursed knowledge nugget from falling into the opium den that was WoW in its heyday and in general being a lore nerd for anything I play.
Eh. I would not really call Sheogorath a "villain" he is a god representing a necessary mantle. the state of mind. insane yet sane, good and evil at the same time. he is the ultimate neutralist neutral force as he can be both helping and hindering you through the usage of his Wabbajack. also Ellie in TLOU is no villain, just made so by an SBI psychosis
Allie? No. On a revenge plot, surely, but that doesn't make her the villain. I think it was poorly handled overall trying to force the audience to hate the protagonists of the first game, while hating the newly introduced character of Abby.
Ellie isn’t a villain!!
Number one should have been Drake fro Uncharted.... he just murdered everyone for treasure, that doesn't belong to her m in any capacity
What about salem from army of two haha
Ellie wasn't a villain, Abby was the villain and the game shouldve ended with Ellie killing her. If i had the modding skills, i would do it myself.
Cool story but they're both villains wether you like it or not
Ellie was justified an ill die on that hill
No Kain?!?!
Surely you knew what would happen with that thumbnail.
The Last of Us fanbase is extremely rabid over that subject.
Calling Ellie the villain of Last of Us part 2 shows that you didn't understand what that game was about.
I’ve been saying Ellie was the villain since i played the game. The simps in the comments don’t see it but she really was but they just can’t get over the Joel thing and see the truth. Ellie WAS the villain of the game. Take off those rosey glasses and see the truth.
Alex Mercer
LMFAOOOO y'all gamers are something else. I'm sorry to break it to y'all, but if someone kills your surrogate dad (or anyone close to you for that matter) and you go on a murderous cross country rampage (AND in the process leave your partner to be a single mother)...that's pretty villainous, both in a vacuum AND in game context. Like just cuz something traumatic happened to you doesn't mean you get to go Rambo across the western United States. Sure, you can understand where her rage comes from but empathy and understanding does not absolve responsibility for evil deeds - Ellie is a villain.
Arcania isnt canon....
Prototype 2
I can see why you guys leave the writer's name out of these videos. Some of the entries are bad on this list
The Last of Us fangirls defending Ellie really is insane.....
No Alex Mercer is the real villian
Far Cry 2
Ellie is absolutely not a villain.
No mention of Legacy of Kain: Blood Omen? A bit remiss.
Overall, a poor video.
Like 596
TLOU2 is hot garbage and the well written Ellie from the first game was written to be a villain by incompetent, virtue signaling loser in the sequel.
☝️
Man, how did I know before even clicking on this that the comments were going to be filled with people that have no nuance or media literacy?
Ellie is a villain. Abby is a villain. Joel is a villain. Everyone equally sucks in that reality. Just like the walking dead, everyone is the hero of their own story and the villain of someone else's.
Everyone is both good and bad in those games. They all exist in a moral gray area. Looking at it any other way is an indication of bias
Careful.... you'll wake the fangirls up with that kind of logic talk....
First
Second
Don’t use ridiculous picks as thumbnails to drive engagement.
Says the guy in the comments section.