It actually is when speaking on the NBA. Besides clocking in and out what else has he done besides get his shit pushed in by Giannis and then get swept like trash by the same Celtics, Curry absolutely dismantled. You think clocking in and out was just as much as Curry “you don’t wanna see us next year” and back it up with the finals mvp? Get outta here man Curry is tier 2/3, Durant remains tier 4
@@aidangroves5153 you’re a casual if you believe the bullshit you just typed. He proved absolutely everyone wrong meanwhile taking on one of the best historical defense in nba history. The same defense that locked up Kyrie and Durant. His finals performance is something only an all time great does. You’ve never watched a full nba game in your life and it shows bud
Timmy being a tier below Kobe is ridiculous. Same number of rings, Timmy has more MVPs, FMVPs, All-NBA, All-Defense and was a better leader and franchise cornerstone while playing at the exact same time. He came into the league ready to win titles and left the league still in contention. Never ran off a superstar teammate, wasn't missing the playoffs in the middle of his prime, won 50 games every year. The entire idea of the Spurs as a great organization starts the day he's drafted and ended the day he retired.
Duncan did not have more All NBA or Defensive selections than kobe unless you really want to count 2nd or 3rd team apperances. Not to mention kobe has the edge over him in playoff matchups
The Tim Duncan disrespect is shameful. Man’s dominated for 15 years and was still effective well into his waning years bc of his incredible IQ and bag on the block and his all time post defense. He won his first ring in year two and his 5th and final in year 17 at 37 while never missing significant time in his NBA career. He was the consummate professional and an amazing leader that will be a great coach. He truly did everything and never slacked in the little stuff. That’s what makes him so great.
@@josephschmizzo1595 lol guess you didn’t watch much ball in the 2000’s. The only other big at the time who was on his level was shaq and he and Shaq had many amazing battles, just as many won by Tim as Shaq. He’s one of the greatest interior defenders of all time and was absolutely dominant on the inside, and on the other side of the court his post bag was so fundamentally sound and razor sharp that he was unstoppable, while also being one of the best passing big men in the league and arguably the best at boxing out for rebounds. He did everything right, and his back to back MVP’s say everything there is to say. He came in the league working people in the block, he left the league still working people on the block. He’s an indisputable top ten player of all time. He’s got 5 chips that he was the guy for every one of, he had the longevity and was dominant on BOTH sides of the court. Check yourself before you wreck yourself.
@@thomasredden4263 a) he wasnt the “guy” for every one of his chips…Tony Parker carried that team after 2010. Duncan’s last FMVP came in 05 b) Hakeem is the far better post player and defender…its not even close, and thats why i have Hakeem at #6 all time while Duncan is at 11 just ahead of Shaq at 12 c) ive been watching bball since Jordan was in his prime d) Every big that can pass, yall say is “one of the best passing big men of all time” lol knock it off e) he never defended the title or led the league in any statistic…and MVPs are nothing burger awards that overly celebrates bigs and rewards stat padders. It doesnt mean anything…Steve Nash won 2 in a row and hes definitely not even top 20. f) Duncan is a glorified role player who was essentially the best role player of all time…thats not an insult, thats who he was.
@@josephschmizzo1595 dawg, that team was built around his ability to move the ball, they were literally the best passing team potentially of all time, Tony Parker was great, and an awesome number 2, but he wasn’t running that team, Tim Duncan was still as big an offensive piece as Tony at the end of his career and in their final run, with the ball constantly moving through him in the post, and he was still the anchor of the post on defense while Kawhi took the best wing/ guard on the opposition. Just bc he wasn’t flashy doesn’t mean he wasn’t dominant; in fact I’d say it’s far more impressive what Tim did than Hakeem considering the other worldly athlete Hakeem was. Duncan was also the court general on both sides and constantly put his teammates in positions to succeed in a way I’ve never seen a player do outside of Jason Kidd to that level. He filled up the box score plenty, but what he did from a leadership perspective, defensively for his entire career with only a slight drop of by the end, and his ability to always rise to the occasion all go way beyond the box score, I have him 7th all time and Hakeem 11th or 12th, I go back and forth.
@@thomasredden4263 he always had a stacked deck while also having the best front office/coach in NBA history…the perception of his success as a leader is tainted by the fact that he was born w a silver spoon in his mouth so to speak, as an NBA player. He was load managed his entire career and played role player minutes/took role player field goal attempts for easily half of his entire career. If u have him 7th…fine, but theres no logical way for me to put him in the top 10 since the emergence of Lebron, KD and Steph. Maybe Tim was top 10 15 yrs ago…i just cant see it today.
That's the whole point. He is that good and has shown to be in a category of his own in such a short time, just like LeBron did. Not only that, dude was a 3 year veteran pro by the time he made the NBA. He deserves a spot for sure and so do Harden, Giannis and D-Wade should've stayed too.
Y’all should react to the “making the case Tim Duncan”, there’s a full series on players where this guy breaks down their careers and makes the case for who’s the goat
Knowing these guys, they probably won't, or at least when they do, they'll most likely just clown the vids. I can already see Sage saying some dumb shit like "I ain't calling a guy who played against plumbers and firemen the GOAT" in the Wilt and Russell vids and Solz continuously coming up with some weak ass counterarguments in the Kareem vid. I like these two as content creators, but I don't think they're open minded enough to be able to sit through both "Making the Case" series without having to be toxic about it.
Just the all time assists and steals leader. He belongs and I think both Harden and CP3 are tier 5 just like Stockton. I’m gonna be honest Stockton isnt overrated or underrated. He’s overhated. You don’t become the all time leader in assists simply by playing with Karl Malone.
He couldn’t score worth shit he was a pass first ball hog. He was a system player at best and just gambled on steals. No chance he over cp3 joker harden or ai
How many finals de CP get to? How many times did u need to see Harden go hard on the regular season then flop in the playoffs? Bro the man plays for 20 years is the all time assist leader and top 10 in steals, was amazing from the FT line, are people realy knocking off cause the system he played favoured Malone scoring? If we go by that logic them what about MJ and Pippen, Magic and Kareem, plus the man played on the loaded west and had to beat, Hakeem Rockets, Clyde Portland, The Glove sonics, Barkley suns, Webber kings and the lakers to get to a final and he did 2 times against MJ and lost but so did everybody else during Jordan era.
@@glcsander bro what are u on about stockton wasn’t even the best player on his team and it wasn’t close. Give Malone who was a top 4 player minimum at that time any the players I name and they likely beat the bulls at least once. Stockton is a glorified Ricky Rubio
@@glcsander cp got to one final Stockton got to 2 playing with a top 5 player in the league for 20 years. How many times did they crash out from the playoffs and choked against inferior competition, we just remember the losses of today's players and not past players. And also what did Stockton do in the finals that he made? They lost a finals game against the bulls in 97 where they scored like 50 pts all game and they choked away a very winnable series in 98 just stop it Stockton never scored 35 pts in an nba game his whole career
I cant understand the Stockon hate, how can a player be the all time leader in assist and steals and be considered mid? Cause he had Malone? Cause of his Coach? Cause of his system? If we go by that logic doesnt everybody favorite player Steph Curry also gets disqualified? I dont understand how the community can celebrate achievings like the all score leaders, but them turn the eye to the others stats, the guy was for the most part of his career an iron man, 20 years of prodution and one of the core points of his teams system, the only fault in his career is a lack of a ring but thats most of the stars and superstars in late 80s and 90s, the league was under the thumb of Magic, Bird and later MJ.
@@BasketballHighway19 LMAO yeah thats definitely why he's "disrespected" I'm def putting CP3 over him. Better individual defender and he was the reason that DeAndre Jordan was ALL NBA FIRST TEAM lmfaooo you think he wouldn't do exactly what stockton did if he had Malone?
This.. honestly I kept looking at disgust when watching this video thinking "This man has an assists record that will probably never be broken in our lifetimes... wtf are y'all talking bout?" like wtf are these 2 on right now
@@KrisNation no he still wouldn't have the durability stockton did for damn near 20 seasons. He wouldn't have hit the biggest shot in jazz franchise history to send them to the nba finals in 97. And John stockton didn't choke 5 2-0 leads in his career, thats just embarrassing. John stockton has the records, the longevity, and playoff success over chris paul
@@peewee130946 Stockton sucks because he can’t tween hesi splash. Solz and sage are the same Niggas talking about how tween hesi splash is dumb but are using it to discredit Stockton. 16pts,13assists/3 steals for a decade is amazing numbers. Doing that on 52/39/82 splits is all so amazing.
@@kash125 no Stockton sucks because he was left wide open constantly and couldn’t even dribble with his left. Also they’ve used the tween hesi splash argument against other people
All time steals leader and assist leader 2 time in the NBA finals 16 times he played all 82 games. Chris Paul always hurt when it matters or doesnt show up but is he a better player yeah properly but we have to look at all the things combined and players of today gets away with travel every other possession back in the days you couldnt do that
@Someone A better overall resume? He has a negative playoff record with multiple horrible games in the finals, add that he played with a top 20 MVP player in Malone for two decades and overall had a good roster/coach. CP3 played against harder competition, had significant injuries to important teammates, never had a MVP player besides him like Stockton besides Harden for two years. People are too enamored with the assist/steals record for Stockton, ironic considering Paul is probably going to finish 2nd all time in Assist and steals while dealing with injuries his whole career. Paul is also having a longevity argument.
Solz claiming Stockton, the untouchable record-holder in assists and steals who played until 2002, couldn’t dribble with both hands is a grade school take.
He also claims that Kareem being top 5 ever is dubious, like what??? I fuck with these two and just NBA RUclips in general, but I'll be honest with you, I can't take half of their takes seriously especially regarding the older eras. Everyone clowns Flight, Cash, and Oprah for being dumb casuals when the reality is that more than half of the guys on this platform are just more "normal" versions of those dudes.
@@overez2969 id pay real money to watch them play bro you could never know how hard something is to do on the court unless you go out and do it stockton in his 60's would 21-0 them
Yeah, the way Solz is raging over Stockton dribbling is embarrassing to watch. Stockton’s doing exactly what LeBron does sometimes. It’s ok to wait for the offense to run.
Sage's point about the black and white pictures is dumb asf. We should get rid of the HOF then imo. Being the most dominant during your era should be recognized, basketball is the only sport where niggas bring up that arguement.
@@robert2690 he isn’t talking about cp3 he’s talking about harden and even if he was talking about cp3 is peak was much higher then Stockton and he also has great longevity you have no argument
Hating on Larry is outrageous. Larrys greatness shouldn't need to be thought about at all. He's goated. One of the best passers in full court and had eyes in the back of his head it seemed like. I think he was better than magic. And that's on Bill Russell
0:26 I know this was the pyramid he had 3 years ago but john Stockton over David Robinson, Dirk, AI, Moses Malone,Jerry west,Charles Barkley,and KG is just so wrong😂
Solz saying Stockton got to the finals and lost twice while conveniently leaving out that he lost to the damn Bulls lol. I'm not even that big of a fan of Stockton's game but I respect greatness. Saying he shouldn't be on here is absolutely fine but if your reasoning is because he can't go left that's some OSN or Flight logic.
Well to be great and to be high on these lists you gotta beat great teams. Stockton and Malone were teammates for almost their entire career with no chips and two finals appearances and it’s not like the teams they had were not able to beat to win at least one even if it’s not against the bulls.
You used an individual stat to hypeup stockton , but used team success/lack off to trash cp3. what did stockton do in those finals, and the playoffs before ?
I’m gonna set things straight here. Scoring: Paul Rebounding: Paul Playmaking: Stockton Defense: Paul Playoffs: Stockton Shooting: Stockton Longevity: Stockton Peak: Paul Durabilty: Stockton Efficiency: Stockton Assists-Turnovers: Paul Total: Stockton: 6: Paul 5 Stockton wins
Still don't get the Stockton disrespect tbh. I get that he's not the flashiest guy in the world and he never really jumps out in the highlight films, but he got it done for a really long time. Just for context, Chris Paul right now at age 37 has fallen off a cliff (11-5-9 on 51% true shooting) and is missing a lot of games due to injury. Stockton at the same age started every game and averaged 12-3-9 on 59% true shooting. I'm not trying to suggest that Stockton is better than CP3 (Paul blows him away in ability), but as Jxmy said in his video, their **careers** (emphasizing this because I think both Solz and Sage didn't get this part) are remarkably similar.
@@nachoalvarez7171their peaks are more comparable than you think. peak stockton averaged 17/14 and 3 steals on 60% ts. peak cp3 averaged 21/11.6 and 3 steals on 57% ts. i do think that chris paul’s assists were more valuable than stockton’s, so i give chris paul the edge in peak. that’s not considering the 19 years of quality production stockton provided. he started 82 games for the last four years of his career, and all 50 in the lockout shortened year five years before his retirement. honestly it comes down to preference, but i think it’d be easier to win more over a longer period of time with stockton than cp3.
The Stockton slander has to stop. Yeah I said it. Notice how Jxmy's pyramid isn't named the BOAT pyramid for Best of all time, it's called the GOAT pyramid for Greatest of all time. John Stockton is not a better basketball player than maybe the 30 or 40 players ranked behind him, but he's a greater player than any one of them. He holds 2 arguably unbreakable league records, has made multiple All NBA 1st teams, finished in the top 10 of MVP voting 5 times, and was directly responsible for generating over 50,000 points in his career. He's an all time great.
@@davidnkemitag4362 Yeah CP peaked higher and is the better basketball player than Stockton was, but Stockton is still slightly greater. These guys are acting like Stockton was some random bum
John Stockton is the leader in assists and steals and his records will likely not be broken. He met MJ 2 times in the finals, back to back. John Stockton deserves his place. Heavily underrated. The man generated countless points.
generated countless point to one of the best scorers ever. Im sorry but a ringless second option can never be in this pyramid. you are either a legit first option or have won rings being a second option to be there
@@deanoss777 Stockton still averaged a respectable amount of points for his career and had a good shooting percentage. He was an all around player. Legends will tell you that he is what a point guard is supposed to be.
Yes, let's roost players who play style is different today yet who's play styles set the foundation for players today because they are old and we think outdated. How hilarious that would be.
Honestly for me Dwade belongs with the tier 4 guys HE WAS THAT GOOD. A lot of people under value him bc he took a backseat to LeBron but he was really that dude 3rd greatest ever at his position.
The Stockton disrespect is very unfair this dude a walking 15/10 with 3STLS a game but one thing that nobody talks about is how he played 16 seasons where he played all 82 games. Nobody is touching his record of ASTS and STLS
Those stats aren’t good enough to win a ring period. 20/11 like magic then yes but Stockton is rated high just because of longevity is not enough. Peak and winnings are more important than longevity
They dont rank goats based on whos better than rank them on career accomplishments and numbers which is flawed because these guys played in different eras with different rules with different circumstances
@@bcuno Bill Russell (60’s) and Kareem (70’) were also the undisputed best player of their era. Wilt was never close to Bill watch the thinking basketball video about them and you will realize Wilt was overated thats why he only won 2 chip and he won them when he changed his playstyle and only averaged like 16pts. The 80´s is close between Magic, Bird, Kareem and MJ, and the 2000 is the era with the most parity, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Lebron, KG, Wade, Dirk and Iverson were all close in term of stats and accolades.
The main reason Jxmmy put older players so high when they are objectively worse is cuz of his criteria, where he stated that the era players played in was a factor.
Worst in what sense? If rules apply, then this takes a whole another turn. THe older eras had rules that strict their games to a certain that doesn't restrict today's players. For example, players today are able to carry in oppose to strict ball handling rule in the 1950s and 1960s in which your hands can only stay on top of ball, so they had to dribble a certain way...making it look awkward.
The amount of recency bias is crazy also bob cousey and those 50’s and 60’s players didn’t play in a segregated league NBA desegregated in the late 1940’s
Larry Bird definitely deserves his spot in tier 2. Peak Larry Bird > Peak Magic, and it is not even a debate. Better scorer, better shooter, better defender and elite playmaker/facilitator (the only thing that Magic is better). Magic is over in the TL because he has more accolades, but remember that Larry is a 3 times MVP in a row and has all defensive team selection. So yeah, Larry Bird deserves his spot in Tier 2. Magic/Bird are just the like 4/5 in my list (I have Bird in 4 though)
Noone at the time believed Magic was better than Bird, they were close but it was unanimous that Bird was better. That's why Bird finished higher in MVP voting nearly every year. It's only because of the way Magic retired and the mythology that's come after that people say Magic is better.
Why are you arguing about Chris Paul over Stockton? Look at the list even if you put him in over Stockton he’s getting removed the next time you do the list. WTF are you talking about people on the last tier for the majority of the video? It’s the bottom tier, those spots aren’t safe. I wish I would spend ten minutes talking about who the hell is # 26-30. Did you really go that hard on Stockton, like why the hell would you care if Chris Paul gets a bottom spot for what, eight months before someone like Luka makes the cut.
@Someone sheesh and not to mention the absolute dominant production when it got to playoffs time. There’s a lot misconception around Tim’s early career where people think he’s was only good because of the system he was in, and don’t realise that system in the early 00’s was built around iso post ups. And people who say he had so much help in that 03’ chip because he had tony and Manu forget to mention that manu was a rookie and it was Parker’s 2nd year. Tim average 24 17 5 and 5 blocks in the finals that year, that’s god stats right there.
So cut the all-time leader in steals and assists for a kid who's barely old enough to drink in the U.S who's shown superstar flashes for 3 seasons.... 🤣
Obviously his handles don’t hold up to today’s standards, but Johnny gotta at least get a spot for having the all time record in one of the major statistical categories by a huge margin.
Ok nah this is where I’m actually drawing the line. It’s not about who’s better it’s about who is greater. Stockton has 2 records that will never be touched and in terms of accolades he and Paul have pretty close. Now who is the better player? Chris Paul easily, but that’s not what we are trying to find out now are we
I'm not a huge Stockton fan, but he's the all time assist and steals leader for a reason. Man had tons of heart, and determination. He didn't play flashy, and he never won a championship, but he deserves to be up there.
@@christianrollman3006 Better defender, playmaker, and scorer Don’t want to hear all time steals and assist Because that don’t mean shit CP3 is just simply better at everything tbh
@@dumbassdude8372 why are they better? Because their style of play is more flashy? Because they dribble the ball 20× more to do the same thing Stockton did? The jazz went to the finals 2 years in a row, and took jordans bulls to 6 games both times. You all act like he was some amateur. Look, I was a HUGE jordan fan as a kid, and I'll tell you what, Stockton was a good ass player. And he definitely deserves to be on the list. He has all time greatest in two stat categories, and his records are COMPLETELY out of reach for any modern nba player. Harden and cp3 have choked, not just lost, but CHOKED HARD, in the post season. Cp3 holds a record blowing the most 2-0 leads in the playoffs. Those guys are good, but haven't proven themselves enough in the part of the season that matters most.
@@amarevanhook7453 Steph’s better bro…same amount of titles on far less time all on one team. Bron never created a dynasty nor has he impacted the way the sport is played how Steph does.
Jimmy choice of Stockton vs paul made sense to me because his argument for Stockton was about accomplishments and John stocktons accomplishments are leagues ahead of cp3 I don’t agree with jimmy but I understand where he was coming from
@@orlastm Kareem is higher on GOAT Lists because most ppl talking about basketball online knows nothing about basketball. They dont have w gauge of the sport so they look primarily at accolades and stats…
The Bob Pettit disrespect is real. I can at least respect “get him outta there if he in black and white” rather than “he just ain’t good enough” 4 all star game MVP’s 2 MVP’s a championship at the same time as the Russell Celtics and career averages of 26.4 & 16.2. Points and rebounds career averaged combined - he is 2nd in history behind Wilt. Yep.
Solz my guy you need to do some learning on dr. j. theres no chance he should be any lower. i need you guys to do reactions to old highlights of these 90 and 80s players that would be so funny. gotta love that 90s lockdown defense with free 5 feet of space.
@@ayaya3954 he said he values peak over longevity, that doesn’t mean a stupidly long career wouldn’t be better than a slightly better peak with constant playoff choaks
@@bazookacantgame constant playoffs choke also apply to Stockton’s career, I would argue he even was a worse choker than cp3, just look at his nba finals stats
@@justinhainsworth7726 Stockton was absolutely garbage against the bulls, one of the worst finals performance by any superstar in 98. Cp3 was decent at least
Stockton is the league's ALL TIME leader in assists AND steals. His career spanned an era where he had to play against MJ, magic, bird, Kareem, olajuwan, Shaq etc... as competition. Put some respect on his name
Ion know why y’all are hating so much, Stockton is the all-time leader in assists & steals & no one else is close. If you really think about, he is statistically the greatest PG of all-time
Statistically speaking John is the worst playoff performer of all the top 10 guards in history. His regular season longevity is great but highly overrated when you see the drastic diminishing returns come postseason
@@christianrollman3006 if he faced a team that won 8 in a row, how was he supposed to win? Imagine if LBJ faced KD’s warriors every time he went to the finals
@@user-rj3pt1qm7khe was up against the team with like 5 of the leagues top 15/20 players, the fact that he even came that close is a testament to his greatest and I don’t want to hear the “those players were only good because bill russell was so good” slander.
Bob Pettit of the St. Louis Hawks was one of the few players who led his team past the Bill Russell Celtics in the finals. He dropped 50 points with 19 rebounds in the close out game.
The recency bias by these two is crazy, it’s a “greatness” pyramid not a “skills” pyramid. Modern players are definitely more skilled but to say that Zeke should come off the pyramid and add Luka is just wild at this point in time. Greatness is subjective that’s why you do your homework and respect the game before talking about it. Their responses show a lack of understanding context and nuance.
@@hassanromulus1476 yet CP3 couldn't even carry a team to the NBA finals like how Stockton did TWICE (yes he had Malone but how do you not make the finals with Lob City and Prime Harden??)
@@m4sterbr0s injuries? Like every playoffs either blake or cp3 was injured and in 2018 they might've defeated the KD warriors if his hamstring didn't pop, cp3 is honestly just an unlucky dude
These two don't know ball at all lmao. Stockton was beyond elite, got two NBA finals appearances, and OWNS the steal and assist record. CP3 and Harden are two of the biggest playoff frauds, especially harden.
curry was moved because jimmy realised that currys offense was his defense
Facts 😂
this is the comment
Did you know that Russell Westbrook averaged a triple double
Rudy Gobert’s defense is his offense tho, so shouldn’t he be like top 80 all time 😭
But how will this affect LeBron’s legacy?
Saying that averaging 29 7 and 6 over multiple seasons is just “clocking in and out” is absolutely insane 😭😭
That’s what I said these guys are starting to sound like The Kroger King Low 😂
I know right
It actually is when speaking on the NBA. Besides clocking in and out what else has he done besides get his shit pushed in by Giannis and then get swept like trash by the same Celtics, Curry absolutely dismantled. You think clocking in and out was just as much as Curry “you don’t wanna see us next year” and back it up with the finals mvp? Get outta here man Curry is tier 2/3, Durant remains tier 4
@@skipbrainless7527 curry does not go up to tier two based on one ring bro no way
@@aidangroves5153 you’re a casual if you believe the bullshit you just typed. He proved absolutely everyone wrong meanwhile taking on one of the best historical defense in nba history. The same defense that locked up Kyrie and Durant. His finals performance is something only an all time great does. You’ve never watched a full nba game in your life and it shows bud
John Stockton highlights have to be the funniest shit I’ve seen today 😭
NBA storyteller- no left
@@SHAKE-S-PIERREA man of culture
I’m baked rn and this shit has me in tears 💀💀
Weren't even guarding up on him 😂
The guy that met MJ in the finals 2 years in a row? The guy with the all time assist and steal record? The 2 records that won't be broken, maybe ever?
This just ended up becoming “Laughing at John Stockton’s ‘playmaking’” and I am all here for it
Lmao true
Put me out there coach…
Tbf Stockton made a second Finals CP3 gotta make a 2nd to get the edge
Stockton gotta go ngl
@@Channel-23s huh? 90's basketball is ass thats why
Timmy being a tier below Kobe is ridiculous. Same number of rings, Timmy has more MVPs, FMVPs, All-NBA, All-Defense and was a better leader and franchise cornerstone while playing at the exact same time. He came into the league ready to win titles and left the league still in contention. Never ran off a superstar teammate, wasn't missing the playoffs in the middle of his prime, won 50 games every year. The entire idea of the Spurs as a great organization starts the day he's drafted and ended the day he retired.
Narrative based take but absolutely correct
Kobe had a much higher peak. But I agree a tier below is crazy
@@manz7860 no kobe did not lmao what
Duncan did not have more All NBA or Defensive selections than kobe unless you really want to count 2nd or 3rd team apperances. Not to mention kobe has the edge over him in playoff matchups
@@WADESGOATED tell me all about how tim defended any of his championships.
Kobe has a 3 peat with shaq and a back to back
The John Stockton slander is the funniest shit Solz and Sage have recorded 😭😭
The Timmy disrespect is disgusting
At least T2
Duncan is definitely tier 2, this is terrible
I said Timmy should be in T2 and sum guy under the original video said I was crazy 😂
Im surprised solz didnt say take him off the list entirely tbh
And the Dr. J disrespect
The Tim Duncan disrespect is shameful. Man’s dominated for 15 years and was still effective well into his waning years bc of his incredible IQ and bag on the block and his all time post defense. He won his first ring in year two and his 5th and final in year 17 at 37 while never missing significant time in his NBA career. He was the consummate professional and an amazing leader that will be a great coach. He truly did everything and never slacked in the little stuff. That’s what makes him so great.
Hes overrated and was never “dominant”….lol
@@josephschmizzo1595 lol guess you didn’t watch much ball in the 2000’s. The only other big at the time who was on his level was shaq and he and Shaq had many amazing battles, just as many won by Tim as Shaq. He’s one of the greatest interior defenders of all time and was absolutely dominant on the inside, and on the other side of the court his post bag was so fundamentally sound and razor sharp that he was unstoppable, while also being one of the best passing big men in the league and arguably the best at boxing out for rebounds. He did everything right, and his back to back MVP’s say everything there is to say. He came in the league working people in the block, he left the league still working people on the block. He’s an indisputable top ten player of all time. He’s got 5 chips that he was the guy for every one of, he had the longevity and was dominant on BOTH sides of the court. Check yourself before you wreck yourself.
@@thomasredden4263 a) he wasnt the “guy” for every one of his chips…Tony Parker carried that team after 2010. Duncan’s last FMVP came in 05
b) Hakeem is the far better post player and defender…its not even close, and thats why i have Hakeem at #6 all time while Duncan is at 11 just ahead of Shaq at 12
c) ive been watching bball since Jordan was in his prime
d) Every big that can pass, yall say is “one of the best passing big men of all time” lol knock it off
e) he never defended the title or led the league in any statistic…and MVPs are nothing burger awards that overly celebrates bigs and rewards stat padders. It doesnt mean anything…Steve Nash won 2 in a row and hes definitely not even top 20.
f) Duncan is a glorified role player who was essentially the best role player of all time…thats not an insult, thats who he was.
@@josephschmizzo1595 dawg, that team was built around his ability to move the ball, they were literally the best passing team potentially of all time, Tony Parker was great, and an awesome number 2, but he wasn’t running that team, Tim Duncan was still as big an offensive piece as Tony at the end of his career and in their final run, with the ball constantly moving through him in the post, and he was still the anchor of the post on defense while Kawhi took the best wing/ guard on the opposition. Just bc he wasn’t flashy doesn’t mean he wasn’t dominant; in fact I’d say it’s far more impressive what Tim did than Hakeem considering the other worldly athlete Hakeem was. Duncan was also the court general on both sides and constantly put his teammates in positions to succeed in a way I’ve never seen a player do outside of Jason Kidd to that level. He filled up the box score plenty, but what he did from a leadership perspective, defensively for his entire career with only a slight drop of by the end, and his ability to always rise to the occasion all go way beyond the box score, I have him 7th all time and Hakeem 11th or 12th, I go back and forth.
@@thomasredden4263 he always had a stacked deck while also having the best front office/coach in NBA history…the perception of his success as a leader is tainted by the fact that he was born w a silver spoon in his mouth so to speak, as an NBA player. He was load managed his entire career and played role player minutes/took role player field goal attempts for easily half of his entire career.
If u have him 7th…fine, but theres no logical way for me to put him in the top 10 since the emergence of Lebron, KD and Steph. Maybe Tim was top 10 15 yrs ago…i just cant see it today.
Man cmon sage💀 “put luka in there” dude ain’t been in the nba long enough bro
He will soon enough though
That's the whole point. He is that good and has shown to be in a category of his own in such a short time, just like LeBron did. Not only that, dude was a 3 year veteran pro by the time he made the NBA. He deserves a spot for sure and so do Harden, Giannis and D-Wade should've stayed too.
"This ain't a 9-5" 🤣
The irony seeing them laughing at Stockton not dribbling with his left hand and jaylen brown doing the same thing 4 months later is insane
Irony? He got flamed for ot as well and its not like hes in this convi
does anyone consider jaylen brown an all time great? I dont think so and he got flamed for that as well
Bros a finals mvp tho …
Y’all should react to the “making the case Tim Duncan”, there’s a full series on players where this guy breaks down their careers and makes the case for who’s the goat
AGREED REACT TO LEBRONS ASWELL
It's a different RUclipsr I believe
@@johnmichaelcortez7104 Clayton Crowley is his name.
@@johnmichaelcortez7104 yeah I’m aware it’s a different RUclipsr, I wasn’t asking them to react to their own content king 👑
Knowing these guys, they probably won't, or at least when they do, they'll most likely just clown the vids. I can already see Sage saying some dumb shit like "I ain't calling a guy who played against plumbers and firemen the GOAT" in the Wilt and Russell vids and Solz continuously coming up with some weak ass counterarguments in the Kareem vid. I like these two as content creators, but I don't think they're open minded enough to be able to sit through both "Making the Case" series without having to be toxic about it.
"he was a shoe size away from going back to the finals" I cried laughing bro.
There's no way in hell bro said John Stockton is above Chirs Paul and James harden 💀💀
Just the all time assists and steals leader. He belongs and I think both Harden and CP3 are tier 5 just like Stockton. I’m gonna be honest Stockton isnt overrated or underrated. He’s overhated. You don’t become the all time leader in assists simply by playing with Karl Malone.
He couldn’t score worth shit he was a pass first ball hog. He was a system player at best and just gambled on steals. No chance he over cp3 joker harden or ai
How many finals de CP get to? How many times did u need to see Harden go hard on the regular season then flop in the playoffs?
Bro the man plays for 20 years is the all time assist leader and top 10 in steals, was amazing from the FT line, are people realy knocking off cause the system he played favoured Malone scoring?
If we go by that logic them what about MJ and Pippen, Magic and Kareem, plus the man played on the loaded west and had to beat, Hakeem Rockets, Clyde Portland, The Glove sonics, Barkley suns, Webber kings and the lakers to get to a final and he did 2 times against MJ and lost but so did everybody else during Jordan era.
@@glcsander bro what are u on about stockton wasn’t even the best player on his team and it wasn’t close. Give Malone who was a top 4 player minimum at that time any the players I name and they likely beat the bulls at least once. Stockton is a glorified Ricky Rubio
@@glcsander cp got to one final Stockton got to 2 playing with a top 5 player in the league for 20 years. How many times did they crash out from the playoffs and choked against inferior competition, we just remember the losses of today's players and not past players. And also what did Stockton do in the finals that he made? They lost a finals game against the bulls in 97 where they scored like 50 pts all game and they choked away a very winnable series in 98 just stop it Stockton never scored 35 pts in an nba game his whole career
I cant understand the Stockon hate, how can a player be the all time leader in assist and steals and be considered mid? Cause he had Malone? Cause of his Coach? Cause of his system? If we go by that logic doesnt everybody favorite player Steph Curry also gets disqualified?
I dont understand how the community can celebrate achievings like the all score leaders, but them turn the eye to the others stats, the guy was for the most part of his career an iron man, 20 years of prodution and one of the core points of his teams system, the only fault in his career is a lack of a ring but thats most of the stars and superstars in late 80s and 90s, the league was under the thumb of Magic, Bird and later MJ.
Thank you. Man the disrespect just because he wasn't flashy with a "left hand" or a hesi tween tween game
@@BasketballHighway19 u missed the point 😂
@@BasketballHighway19 LMAO yeah thats definitely why he's "disrespected"
I'm def putting CP3 over him. Better individual defender and he was the reason that DeAndre Jordan was ALL NBA FIRST TEAM lmfaooo you think he wouldn't do exactly what stockton did if he had Malone?
This.. honestly I kept looking at disgust when watching this video thinking "This man has an assists record that will probably never be broken in our lifetimes... wtf are y'all talking bout?"
like wtf are these 2 on right now
@@KrisNation no he still wouldn't have the durability stockton did for damn near 20 seasons. He wouldn't have hit the biggest shot in jazz franchise history to send them to the nba finals in 97. And John stockton didn't choke 5 2-0 leads in his career, thats just embarrassing. John stockton has the records, the longevity, and playoff success over chris paul
"Johnny Bones Stockton" is lowkey fire
This forces me to google Stockton's middle name..... (SPOILER)
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Who thought it would have been Houston.
John Stockton slander is always welcomed
We get it you don't know what you're talking about
@@187btokesno you don’t his highlights even make him look bad lol 😂 how you look bad with highlights
@@peewee130946 Stockton sucks because he can’t tween hesi splash. Solz and sage are the same Niggas talking about how tween hesi splash is dumb but are using it to discredit Stockton. 16pts,13assists/3 steals for a decade is amazing numbers. Doing that on 52/39/82 splits is all so amazing.
@@peewee130946 😂
@@kash125 no Stockton sucks because he was left wide open constantly and couldn’t even dribble with his left. Also they’ve used the tween hesi splash argument against other people
Did I just see a 9time all defensive team CP3 not make it over John Stockton's 5.... HOW DID WE GET TO THIS?
All time steals leader and assist leader 2 time in the NBA finals 16 times he played all 82 games. Chris Paul always hurt when it matters or doesnt show up but is he a better player yeah properly but we have to look at all the things combined and players of today gets away with travel every other possession back in the days you couldnt do that
Niggas see some shit and immediately act like people haven't played more seasons and just discredit everything
@Someone
His longevity is more valuable than CP3’s peak
@Someone A better overall resume? He has a negative playoff record with multiple horrible games in the finals, add that he played with a top 20 MVP player in Malone for two decades and overall had a good roster/coach. CP3 played against harder competition, had significant injuries to important teammates, never had a MVP player besides him like Stockton besides Harden for two years. People are too enamored with the assist/steals record for Stockton, ironic considering Paul is probably going to finish 2nd all time in Assist and steals while dealing with injuries his whole career. Paul is also having a longevity argument.
CP3 is a fraud
Solz claiming Stockton, the untouchable record-holder in assists and steals who played until 2002, couldn’t dribble with both hands is a grade school take.
He also claims that Kareem being top 5 ever is dubious, like what??? I fuck with these two and just NBA RUclips in general, but I'll be honest with you, I can't take half of their takes seriously especially regarding the older eras. Everyone clowns Flight, Cash, and Oprah for being dumb casuals when the reality is that more than half of the guys on this platform are just more "normal" versions of those dudes.
on god i love both of them but i cant take his basketball opinion serious when it looks like he cant even play 10 minutes without needing an inhaler 💀
@@overez2969 id pay real money to watch them play bro you could never know how hard something is to do on the court unless you go out and do it stockton in his 60's would 21-0 them
Stockton sucks
Yeah, the way Solz is raging over Stockton dribbling is embarrassing to watch. Stockton’s doing exactly what LeBron does sometimes. It’s ok to wait for the offense to run.
Sage's point about the black and white pictures is dumb asf. We should get rid of the HOF then imo. Being the most dominant during your era should be recognized, basketball is the only sport where niggas bring up that arguement.
"Peak over longevity", keeps Stockton in his pyramid over Harden...
Fax
And let’s see CP3’s peak. Where is it?
His peak is not even that valuable compare to Stockton’s longevity.
@@robert2690 this comment wasn't even talking about cp3, what r u on about?
@@robert2690 cp3's peak is so much better then Stockton's what are we on 😭
@@robert2690 he isn’t talking about cp3 he’s talking about harden and even if he was talking about cp3 is peak was much higher then Stockton and he also has great longevity you have no argument
them yelling wallahi at KD got me rolling 🤣
Hating on Larry is outrageous. Larrys greatness shouldn't need to be thought about at all. He's goated. One of the best passers in full court and had eyes in the back of his head it seemed like. I think he was better than magic. And that's on Bill Russell
0:26 I know this was the pyramid he had 3 years ago but john Stockton over David Robinson, Dirk, AI, Moses Malone,Jerry west,Charles Barkley,and KG is just so wrong😂
Yeah no defending that
For AI I could understand but other than that Malone and Dirk were way too low
People always sleep on Moses man.
David Robinson disrespect is wildd...watch his highlights again he's like giannis and kg
@Someone not a chance in hell
I genuinely haven’t laughed THIS HARD IN A MIN! We NEED YOUR GUYS PYRAMID!!!
We really don't I can tell it would be biased asf😂
Giving Stockton the edge over CP3 because he bounce passed to Bozo Malone for a long time? INSANE
That’s why his longevity is twice as valuable than CP3’s peak.
What is CP3’s peak?
@@robert2690 2008 bag
@@robert2690 22ppg, 11ast, and 2.5 steals a game.
Chris Paul has a higher career PER, BPM, and WS/48 and the gap gets even bigger in the playoffs.
Weren't you all dickriding Chris Paul for lobs to DeAndre Jordan and Blake Griffin?
@@joshuaconniff7712 Chris Paul was by far the best Shot creator on those teams, so I'm not sure what your point is.
I swear people only hate John Stockton because:
1. His name is John
2. He looks like a math teacher
3. He played for the Jazz
No it’s cuz ppl like jxmy
Nah he just wasnt as good as his supporters try and act like he was
Solz saying Stockton got to the finals and lost twice while conveniently leaving out that he lost to the damn Bulls lol. I'm not even that big of a fan of Stockton's game but I respect greatness. Saying he shouldn't be on here is absolutely fine but if your reasoning is because he can't go left that's some OSN or Flight logic.
Well to be great and to be high on these lists you gotta beat great teams. Stockton and Malone were teammates for almost their entire career with no chips and two finals appearances and it’s not like the teams they had were not able to beat to win at least one even if it’s not against the bulls.
then they should've won when jordan was out the leauge for the year
Stockton put up 8 ppg in the finals. You left that part out.
@@tommartyn524 In both finals he put up 15 points and 9 assists and 9.7 points and 9 assists a game. He never averaged 8ppg in a finals.
@@samraizshoaib585 oh excuse me, him averaging 9 ppg changes everything. He’s a super star now.
The recency bias is crazy
These guys never watched genuine basketball before the 2000s.
You guys do realize that John Stockton is the all time career leader in career assists and steals.
The John Stockton hate is unreal
He stinks
18:17
He ain't better than CP3 tho
Stockton got 2 of the most unbreakable records while cp3 has an unbreakable record for blowing leads in the playoffs
Facts the disrespect the guy fought jordan in the finals while cp3 just choked in the 2nd round
@@theunknown7441 Yeah bro. These guys are casuals.
@@theunknown7441 Stockton also had a tons of bad playoffs chokes, just look at his 98 finals performances
You used an individual stat to hypeup stockton , but used team success/lack off to trash cp3. what did stockton do in those finals, and the playoffs before
?
I’m gonna set things straight here.
Scoring: Paul
Rebounding: Paul
Playmaking: Stockton
Defense: Paul
Playoffs: Stockton
Shooting: Stockton
Longevity: Stockton
Peak: Paul
Durabilty: Stockton
Efficiency: Stockton
Assists-Turnovers: Paul
Total: Stockton: 6: Paul 5
Stockton wins
Still don't get the Stockton disrespect tbh. I get that he's not the flashiest guy in the world and he never really jumps out in the highlight films, but he got it done for a really long time. Just for context, Chris Paul right now at age 37 has fallen off a cliff (11-5-9 on 51% true shooting) and is missing a lot of games due to injury. Stockton at the same age started every game and averaged 12-3-9 on 59% true shooting. I'm not trying to suggest that Stockton is better than CP3 (Paul blows him away in ability), but as Jxmy said in his video, their **careers** (emphasizing this because I think both Solz and Sage didn't get this part) are remarkably similar.
I'm, a casual, but if CP3 has fallen off with those stats, then Stockton wasn't too much better
His injury is a factor for sure, but that's about it
@@nachoalvarez7171their peaks are more comparable than you think. peak stockton averaged 17/14 and 3 steals on 60% ts. peak cp3 averaged 21/11.6 and 3 steals on 57% ts. i do think that chris paul’s assists were more valuable than stockton’s, so i give chris paul the edge in peak. that’s not considering the 19 years of quality production stockton provided. he started 82 games for the last four years of his career, and all 50 in the lockout shortened year five years before his retirement. honestly it comes down to preference, but i think it’d be easier to win more over a longer period of time with stockton than cp3.
I'm a huge John Stockton fan, and this video had me rollin so hard! 🤣 😂😭😂😂
The Stockton slander has to stop. Yeah I said it.
Notice how Jxmy's pyramid isn't named the BOAT pyramid for Best of all time, it's called the GOAT pyramid for Greatest of all time. John Stockton is not a better basketball player than maybe the 30 or 40 players ranked behind him, but he's a greater player than any one of them. He holds 2 arguably unbreakable league records, has made multiple All NBA 1st teams, finished in the top 10 of MVP voting 5 times, and was directly responsible for generating over 50,000 points in his career. He's an all time great.
Cp3 has double the all nba first teams and was WAYY closer to winning an mvp
18:17
@@davidnkemitag4362 Yeah CP peaked higher and is the better basketball player than Stockton was, but Stockton is still slightly greater.
These guys are acting like Stockton was some random bum
@Cameron never said he was a bum just saying Chris is better stockton. Stockton top 50 for sure just not top 30
John Stockton is the leader in assists and steals and his records will likely not be broken. He met MJ 2 times in the finals, back to back. John Stockton deserves his place. Heavily underrated. The man generated countless points.
generated countless point to one of the best scorers ever. Im sorry but a ringless second option can never be in this pyramid. you are either a legit first option or have won rings being a second option to be there
@@mythification11 Would he have the points without the assists? Point guards pass the ball. You should learn the positions of basketball.
@@onlyme2579there’s no one way to play a position, there are scoring PGs like Dame and pass first PGs like Stockton
@@deanoss777 Stockton still averaged a respectable amount of points for his career and had a good shooting percentage. He was an all around player. Legends will tell you that he is what a point guard is supposed to be.
@@onlyme2579 why didn't they win while Jordan was outta the league
I’d pay to see you two do a whole video roasting the highlights of players like Stockton and Cousy.
Bob Cousy forsure.
Especially that one weak hesi dribble and the defender fell down.
You would be surprised to see some Cousey passes that guys now ain't even doing.
Yes, let's roost players who play style is different today yet who's play styles set the foundation for players today because they are old and we think outdated. How hilarious that would be.
@@Ebonyleopard salty much
@@Ebonyleopard an open midrange is in ur highlight reel. Luka > Johnny 😂😂
Honestly for me Dwade belongs with the tier 4 guys HE WAS THAT GOOD. A lot of people under value him bc he took a backseat to LeBron but he was really that dude 3rd greatest ever at his position.
Wade most underrated player of all time.
yeah people forget D Wade already won FMVP without Lebron or Chris Bosh on the team
I say Isiah and Wade easily 4
The Stockton disrespect is very unfair this dude a walking 15/10 with 3STLS a game but one thing that nobody talks about is how he played 16 seasons where he played all 82 games. Nobody is touching his record of ASTS and STLS
Those stats aren’t good enough to win a ring period. 20/11 like magic then yes but Stockton is rated high just because of longevity is not enough. Peak and winnings are more important than longevity
11:39 is exactly what I was waiting for. I have no idea what took Sage so long to have an epiphany.
Facts, recognize greatness
Luka being ranked above Elgin all time is insane. The recency bias is ridiculous.
@@riquetc0060 It's a joke the channel community gets it but your probably new
@@1MoeDolla luka is not top 30…
@@J5ToLive because he’s a tier of his own🔥🔥
They dont rank goats based on whos better than rank them on career accomplishments and numbers which is flawed because these guys played in different eras with different rules with different circumstances
Thank you! Someone finally said it!
Best way to rank is who was the best for each era. MJ and LeBron are the only undisputed guys for their respective era.
@@bcuno Bill Russell (60’s) and Kareem (70’) were also the undisputed best player of their era. Wilt was never close to Bill watch the thinking basketball video about them and you will realize Wilt was overated thats why he only won 2 chip and he won them when he changed his playstyle and only averaged like 16pts. The 80´s is close between Magic, Bird, Kareem and MJ, and the 2000 is the era with the most parity, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Lebron, KG, Wade, Dirk and Iverson were all close in term of stats and accolades.
@@bcuno Kareem got the 70’s, mj for sure got the 90’s, Kobe got the 2000’s, and Lebron has the 2010’s.
The main reason Jxmmy put older players so high when they are objectively worse is cuz of his criteria, where he stated that the era players played in was a factor.
Worst in what sense? If rules apply, then this takes a whole another turn. THe older eras had rules that strict their games to a certain that doesn't restrict today's players. For example, players today are able to carry in oppose to strict ball handling rule in the 1950s and 1960s in which your hands can only stay on top of ball, so they had to dribble a certain way...making it look awkward.
@@j-us-t_be-in-g whole league carries now its so frustrating to watch
@@j-us-t_be-in-g yea but for some reason they still did not know how to shoot until the 80s
The amount of recency bias is crazy also bob cousey and those 50’s and 60’s players didn’t play in a segregated league NBA desegregated in the late 1940’s
that's the internet someone says something stupid and all the other follow like parrots🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I wonder if John Stockton knows how disrespected he is by RUclipsrs
Most likely not dudes a weirdo tho a massive anti vaxxer so he deserves all the hate tbh overrated as a player too
His political views are wild, i dont think bro cares about criticism
@@TellHerNothingwhat are they (don’t feel like googling it) ?
@@thetonymastershe is an anti vaxxer i think
isiah Thomas not being in tier 4, when Oscar Robertson is, is absolutely disgusting 😭
Thank you
Yo I’m crying at the John Stockton part lmao Jordan’s biggest nemesis couldn’t dribble with his left hand 💀💀💀
😂😂😂😂
Larry Bird definitely deserves his spot in tier 2. Peak Larry Bird > Peak Magic, and it is not even a debate. Better scorer, better shooter, better defender and elite playmaker/facilitator (the only thing that Magic is better). Magic is over in the TL because he has more accolades, but remember that Larry is a 3 times MVP in a row and has all defensive team selection. So yeah, Larry Bird deserves his spot in Tier 2. Magic/Bird are just the like 4/5 in my list (I have Bird in 4 though)
Noone at the time believed Magic was better than Bird, they were close but it was unanimous that Bird was better. That's why Bird finished higher in MVP voting nearly every year.
It's only because of the way Magic retired and the mythology that's come after that people say Magic is better.
@@dickthehead1145 Yes, definitely
there is a highlight of John Stockton where he changes his dribble from right hand to left hand and its so dope
Why are you arguing about Chris Paul over Stockton? Look at the list even if you put him in over Stockton he’s getting removed the next time you do the list. WTF are you talking about people on the last tier for the majority of the video? It’s the bottom tier, those spots aren’t safe. I wish I would spend ten minutes talking about who the hell is # 26-30. Did you really go that hard on Stockton, like why the hell would you care if Chris Paul gets a bottom spot for what, eight months before someone like Luka makes the cut.
People think this is a hot take, but Tim Duncan was the best player of the 00’s and Kobe can’t hold water to him
@@user-rj3pt1qm7kI have Duncan all time at 7 and Kobe at 8
@Someone sheesh and not to mention the absolute dominant production when it got to playoffs time. There’s a lot misconception around Tim’s early career where people think he’s was only good because of the system he was in, and don’t realise that system in the early 00’s was built around iso post ups. And people who say he had so much help in that 03’ chip because he had tony and Manu forget to mention that manu was a rookie and it was Parker’s 2nd year. Tim average 24 17 5 and 5 blocks in the finals that year, that’s god stats right there.
I'm tired of Russell and Wilt clogging up the top 10 because of exaggerations and whooping a bunch of plumbers and part-time teachers between 9 teams.
@@fang9762 a juiced up AI who was lucky en enough to play with shaq
Kobe has 5 rings in the 2000’s bruh. Literally half of the rings in those 10 years went to Kobe. 2000’s was definitely Kobe’s era.
Is it crazy I wanted to see more Stockton highlights 😂
So cut the all-time leader in steals and assists for a kid who's barely old enough to drink in the U.S who's shown superstar flashes for 3 seasons.... 🤣
The Larry Bird disrespect is crazy
Larry Bird is overrated as fuck ngl
@@bubbachildsupport4535 elaborate lol
He's in tier 2 tho?
@@ayaya3954 yes
@@ayaya3954 bsolz and the other guy laughed at it
Obviously his handles don’t hold up to today’s standards, but Johnny gotta at least get a spot for having the all time record in one of the major statistical categories by a huge margin.
He ended his career holding 2.
Damn, Stockton don’t deserve that hate 😢 lol he was a beast.
Did y’all miss the part where said he’s going off Peak, Skillest, Era and Accomplishments 🤦🏾♂️
He literally said that he considered peak over longevity then picked Stockton over CP3 because of longevity over peak
Ok nah this is where I’m actually drawing the line. It’s not about who’s better it’s about who is greater. Stockton has 2 records that will never be touched and in terms of accolades he and Paul have pretty close. Now who is the better player? Chris Paul easily, but that’s not what we are trying to find out now are we
I'm not a huge Stockton fan, but he's the all time assist and steals leader for a reason. Man had tons of heart, and determination. He didn't play flashy, and he never won a championship, but he deserves to be up there.
stockton is worse than cp3 and harden in the playoffs, Kawhi doesnt belong to the pyramid cuz he doesnt play enough games
you know you have no argument when you bring out the “heart and determination”. CP3 is just better
@@struggleoflife6025why? Neither have a chip
@@christianrollman3006 Better defender, playmaker, and scorer
Don’t want to hear all time steals and assist
Because that don’t mean shit
CP3 is just simply better at everything tbh
@@dumbassdude8372 why are they better? Because their style of play is more flashy? Because they dribble the ball 20× more to do the same thing Stockton did? The jazz went to the finals 2 years in a row, and took jordans bulls to 6 games both times. You all act like he was some amateur. Look, I was a HUGE jordan fan as a kid, and I'll tell you what, Stockton was a good ass player. And he definitely deserves to be on the list. He has all time greatest in two stat categories, and his records are COMPLETELY out of reach for any modern nba player. Harden and cp3 have choked, not just lost, but CHOKED HARD, in the post season. Cp3 holds a record blowing the most 2-0 leads in the playoffs. Those guys are good, but haven't proven themselves enough in the part of the season that matters most.
Tier 1 = Jordan
Tier 2= Kobe, Kareem, Steph, Bird
Tier 3 = Olajuwon, Durant, Magic, Lebron, Wilt and Duncan
Steph over Lebron is disgusting Ngl
@@amarevanhook7453 Steph’s better bro…same amount of titles on far less time all on one team. Bron never created a dynasty nor has he impacted the way the sport is played how Steph does.
John Stockton played against the same Defense Jordan did and Stockton didn’t have to go left to score crazy
Stockton not going left is a meme. He went left all the time.
JOKIC officially on the list 🎉
Jimmy choice of Stockton vs paul made sense to me because his argument for Stockton was about accomplishments and John stocktons accomplishments are leagues ahead of cp3 I don’t agree with jimmy but I understand where he was coming from
Their accolades are actually very similar and you could argue cp has a better trophy case in general. Stockton got the records though
It's not about who's better, it's about who's a greater basketball player
U need to be “better” to be greater…
@@josephschmizzo1595 Not really, You can be the best player in the world and not have done anything. Similar to timberwolves Kevin Garnett
@@josephschmizzo1595 Also, who is a better basketball player, Kobe or Kareem? Most will say kobe, yet kareem is always higher on goat lists
@@orlastm i don’t believe Kevin Garnett was ever the best player in the world.
@@orlastm Kareem is higher on GOAT Lists because most ppl talking about basketball online knows nothing about basketball. They dont have w gauge of the sport so they look primarily at accolades and stats…
Y’all starting to get to that OSN - flight reacts level of basketball knowledge
The Larry Bird disrespect is crazy. He’s just as good as Magic.
These dudes was on Stockton's case ALL VIDEO 🤣
The Bob Pettit disrespect is real. I can at least respect “get him outta there if he in black and white” rather than “he just ain’t good enough” 4 all star game MVP’s 2 MVP’s a championship at the same time as the Russell Celtics and career averages of 26.4 & 16.2. Points and rebounds career averaged combined - he is 2nd in history behind Wilt. Yep.
Solz my guy you need to do some learning on dr. j. theres no chance he should be any lower.
i need you guys to do reactions to old highlights of these 90 and 80s players that would be so funny. gotta love that 90s lockdown defense with free 5 feet of space.
He is one of those people who think everything about the 90s and before sucks.
I just remain Jordan alone in Tier 1
The Stockton gawk is wild
Bro had peaks as one of his criteria then argued for Stockton's longevity against CP3
@@ayaya3954 he said he values peak over longevity, that doesn’t mean a stupidly long career wouldn’t be better than a slightly better peak with constant playoff choaks
@@bazookacantgame constant playoffs choke also apply to Stockton’s career, I would argue he even was a worse choker than cp3, just look at his nba finals stats
@@sudowoodo5826 still been to finals agains mj, cp3 got railed by the bucks
@@justinhainsworth7726 Stockton was absolutely garbage against the bulls, one of the worst finals performance by any superstar in 98. Cp3 was decent at least
When are we going to get that lucrative "John Stockton hate vid" lmao
Wade, Dr.J, Elgin Baylor disrespect crazy
14:30 “Chris Paul playoff elevation” Man hasn’t showed up in an elimination game in all 17 of his seasons
Ikr 😂
The Stockton highlights took me out. Cute dog btw
14:10 best part of the video😂 “LoCkDoWn …. LOckdOWN ?”
The bob cousy disrespect is insane
Stockton is the league's ALL TIME leader in assists AND steals. His career spanned an era where he had to play against MJ, magic, bird, Kareem, olajuwan, Shaq etc... as competition. Put some respect on his name
John Stockton is a legitimate Hall of Famer. He is the all time leader in assist and steals. Give that man respect as a player.
Putting CP3 over Isiah Thomas is nasty work
John Stockton has a historic record though with assists that’s the difference
Shaq and Duncan in a tier below Kobe is so nasty
Not really
Imagine if the defense gave Curry the same space and amount of time they gave John Stockton. He'd be dropping 40 every game.
Lmaoo the funny thing about the Stockton hate is 😂 its more people in tier 5 that also could definitely leave other than Stockton
Shout out to NBA Storyteller, mans damn near singlehandedly destroyed John Stockton's legacy
I mean, LOW vid also gave a good assist, too.
Why did Sage’s “Yes” sound hilarious for no reason 😂
This channels Larry Legend disrespect is weird man
And solz is a Celtics fan
They need to stop hating on John Stockton. He’s a top 5 PG all-time, the all-time assists and steals leader.
One of the best react videos y'all! 🤣🤣🤣
Ion know why y’all are hating so much, Stockton is the all-time leader in assists & steals & no one else is close. If you really think about, he is statistically the greatest PG of all-time
Statistically speaking John is the worst playoff performer of all the top 10 guards in history. His regular season longevity is great but highly overrated when you see the drastic diminishing returns come postseason
And Lebron is statistically the greatest scorer. Does that make sense?
i mean bron is one of the greatest scorers. stockton can be argued the same too but his highlights sucks@@bleach4k239
I was here rolling with the trolling until Solz said "cut out Baylor", bruh that's wild
@Someone what’s Harden’s finals record? How about CP3s? Jokic? Everyone not gonna be Jordan or Russell with the chips
@Someone that’s the people Solz is saying cut him out for
@@darrellwilliams9168nah but how you gonna get there 7 TIMES and not win once?
@@christianrollman3006 if he faced a team that won 8 in a row, how was he supposed to win? Imagine if LBJ faced KD’s warriors every time he went to the finals
@@user-rj3pt1qm7khe was up against the team with like 5 of the leagues top 15/20 players, the fact that he even came that close is a testament to his greatest and I don’t want to hear the “those players were only good because bill russell was so good” slander.
Bob Pettit of the St. Louis Hawks was one of the few players who led his team past the Bill Russell Celtics in the finals. He dropped 50 points with 19 rebounds in the close out game.
John Stockton is the Tim Duncan of PGs basic as hell but effective 🤷🏾♂️ LoL
Naw nobody was even guarding Stockton and he still only averaged 13 points per game
tim won
With 0 rings
@@peewee130946 John Stockton for a decade averaged 16pts 13assists and 3 steals on 52/39/83 splits. How is that not better than cp3😭
You did not just compare Stockton to Tim Duncan lmao
John Stockton:
WS: 207.7
WS/48: 0.209
PER 21.8
OBPM 4.9
DBPM 1.9
BPM 6.8
VoRP 106.5
Chris Paul
WS: 200.5
WS/48 0.238
PER 24.5
OBPM 5.1
DBPM 2.2
BPM 7.2
VoRP 94.3
Kevin Wayne and Johnny T Stockton would make a crazy duo😭
The recency bias by these two is crazy, it’s a “greatness” pyramid not a “skills” pyramid. Modern players are definitely more skilled but to say that Zeke should come off the pyramid and add Luka is just wild at this point in time. Greatness is subjective that’s why you do your homework and respect the game before talking about it. Their responses show a lack of understanding context and nuance.
This is why people born in the 2000s shouldn’t be taken seriously
CP3 > Stockton
@@hassanromulus1476 yet CP3 couldn't even carry a team to the NBA finals like how Stockton did TWICE (yes he had Malone but how do you not make the finals with Lob City and Prime Harden??)
@@m4sterbr0s injuries? Like every playoffs either blake or cp3 was injured and in 2018 they might've defeated the KD warriors if his hamstring didn't pop, cp3 is honestly just an unlucky dude
Why can’t people accept that it’s not about how good or bad they would be in any era, its about how great they where during there era
Yessir Solz and Sage the goats. Love your vids guys.
These two don't know ball at all lmao. Stockton was beyond elite, got two NBA finals appearances, and OWNS the steal and assist record. CP3 and Harden are two of the biggest playoff frauds, especially harden.