There seems to be some confusion. Many people (including Chris Baker) have erroneously thought I was making fun of the video Lucky Gunner did on this topic. I wasn't. I have not watched their video on this topic. I saw a few vids on the subject, but not theirs.
Paul, in the Infantry, before we got telescoping stock M4 carbines, we used this short stocking technique w/the longer butt stock M16 A2 semi auto rifle when we cleared rooms in CQB / MOUT operations. . .the technique wasn't meant for a pump action shotgun. But if you had to use this technique w/a shotgun while clearing extremely tight quarters you'd ideally get off one shot before the opposition then quickly transition to slide the butt down into the shoulder pocket for follow ups. But we only used this short stocking technique w/the semi-auto M16A2 rifle in CQB during MOUT while clearing extreme close quarters. The M4 Carbine Rifle negated this technique due to a telescoping stock. Hope this lends some clarity to the subject. HOOAH.
@@PaulHarrell Thank you for the clarification on that brother. I appreciate your channel. I'm long time supporter. Your channel's the very best firearms channel on U-tube. HOOAH.
Don't forget the "Shooting from between your legs" in order to look cool and dishearten the enemy... Shouting incoherent obscenities gives you a +10 to intimidation. 🤣
Paul, as a servicemember I would like you to know that you have brought so much joy to my life with your well thought out videos. You are a good man and I truly appreciate your time and effort to inform us and make us smile. From the bottom of my heart, thank you.
It was called "barrel shortening" when I was in the USMC. It was done with M9s and M16s. Neither of which had the recoil of a 12ga. As a SAW gunner it was recommended that I use the patrol position which is the under the armpit and support hand pushing down on the barrel shroud. If I had to choose, I would go armpit if I really thought it necessary.
I'm not seeing the need to "shorten" with a pistol, if you're in a cqb environment with a pistol you would normally be at compressed high ready the fun part about that particular position is you can easily shoot from it
I enjoy Paul, especially his humble nature. Despite being an amazing shooter and having an unbelievable amount of knowledge and experience he always makes sure to be kind to new shooters and anyone he interacts with and not belittle anyone.
Fully agree, although he does do a fine job of belittling the know-it-all armchair quarterbacks out there, the tacticool clowns who like to portray themselves as the grand poobahs of the gun world. Love those jabs.
I know back in 2003ish and in the Marines Corps, we used the "short stocking" technique for very tight spots in CQB when using a M16A2. Also, remember if you are in a low ready and someone grabs your barrel/muzzle, quickly dropping to a kneeling position can get that muzzle on target.
In the first Jason Bourne movie, when he is in the embassy, you see one of the Marines short stocking his M16 when they are mobilizing to get Jason Bourne. I didn't know what that was until years later. I would rather do that with an M16 than a 12 gauge.
We short-stocked the M12 shotgun underarm and on our hip in riot control situations. It was surprisingly workable. But your average citizen is normally not as fit as your average Marine.
One of the things I dig about Paul is that he can say something isn't for him, but it may work for others. In today's world too many people wanna tell you you're wrong if you're not doing it their way, with their gear. Good presentation sir!! 👍
@@regularfather4708 He had some type of speech impediment that is now barely noticeable and does whole new takes if it isn't too long to be satisfied. I had an issue with a lot of fill sounds and worked on it after some friends kept a tally. Nothing wrong with a pause. If there is a mistake or you have to find something, say nothing, breath and fix it. They all have to wait and apologizing isn't helpful.
This is why I appreciate Paul as much as I do.. “I don’t like this weapon” but it serves a purpose and you may like it. I know not a direct quote but I appreciate that his experience AND situation are not mine. Personally I don’t like the shockwave either but I have friends that do. And he ain’t kidding when he says it fits in a gym bag.....
I have the 870 AOW version of a shockwave and it's a cool gun but it wouldn't be my first choice for home defense. I also have a KSG which is the same length overall and just a better gun in basically every way. You can shoulder fire the KSG, it holds 7+7+1, it's easy to mount an optic if you like. Overall it's just a more effective weapon in a similar length package. They also have a KS7 which is a single magazine version that is lighter and simpler.
I happen to like his Shatner'esk pauses, just a part of authentic Paul Harrell. I definitely appreciate his meat target comparison, and soda bottles are fun. Above all he's definitely thorough!
To make an obvious point (with apologies). With the "under the armpit" low ready, one can also brace/squeeze the longarm against the body. This will help some with recoil. With the "over the shoulder", the weapon floats more. This requires more strength to manage the weapon. Complexity under stress can contribute to performance failure. Likewise, as a once upon a time "educator", I'd prefer starting with something that works well for people of different ages, body types and sizes, and levels of fitness. The more advanced -- as they advance -- will find their own path and what works best for them.
@@stevennewman4778 its really a point and shoot method. I guess a bead or fiber optic site could be attached 90 degrees from top but at 7 yards or less just seems unnecessary.
I was taught over the shoulder with rifles for cqc situations. I can see how using a pump shotgun can be difficult, maybe a semi auto one would be better. I've actually never heard of using over the shoulder technique with a shotgun until this video... I agree. I think just having it tucked underneath your armpit is a bit more practical.
@@mannys9130 done over the shoulder in a shooting house with my 16" AR, no malfunctions. I was basically shooting it with a 90º tilt ejecting up towards the ceiling. I'll do my shotgun tomorrow and let you know if it malfunctions.
Would this just be paul saying "well, you know what they say about a good defense" while outside some random persons house before kicking in the door and comitting a massacre? i mean they cant invade your home if you invade theirs first i guess.....
After seeing this over the shoulder technique 2-3 months ago, I tried it with only one 5 round tube of shells. It was extremely awkward, inefficient, and produced poor accuracy for me. I realize that was not a fair test of a new shooting motion. However, I do know that I and any upland bird hunter and sporting clay shooter is very well practiced in mounting the butt of a shotgun from a below the armpit position. It is very easy to modify the starting position to under and behind the armpit and still mount the gun as you would when a covey of quail flushes. This recommendation from you seems to be a very good solution to reducing the distance the barrel is out in front of me when clearing a building or in a gun battle utilizing cover/concealment. Thank you.
@@montycasper4300 this is the way I have always trained. "Short stroke" the gun by placing it over the shoulder before entering a doorway or very tight hallway. If necessary, fire from thar position. In general you will want to transition to mounted on the shoulder like normal. Not really a practical technique for anything other than entry
Like the other replies, not really a multi-shot position. However I do think the over the shoulder technique may have some greater merit when reloading a shotgun. Something I’d like to have seen Paul address as well. Although I’m not sure how situations really require the reloading of a shotgun that has 5-8 round capacity.
@@MrDmthomp32 The capacity thing for civilian defense is nonsense to sell new models. Cops can magdump and hope to hit something, coz they have qualified immunity and police unions with seven figure defense funds. You and I would be coitus'd if a missed round hit a bystander or even the engine block of a decent late model car. Almost all shootings are very close range and with a couple of rounds fired. Paul being a case in point, his sole real world shooting was in a camp ground where he fired a shotgun shell through the windshield of some drunken fool he seems to have upset and decided to drive through his camp site. Initially charged with murder, before charges dropped after some time.
@@montycasper4300 Sounds like you may have issues with LE. It has always been the armed citizen's moral and legal responsibility to not injure or kill innocents in front of, behind, or adjacent to their target. As for capacity, I'll always take 5+ over 4- for defensive purposes..
Paul, one thing you overlooked in demonstrating shooting in the over-the-shoulder method is that it is a merely a ready position so someone can't grab your gun. After the first shot you can go to the regular position to rack the slide and make follow-up shots. There is no need to remain in the over-the-shoulder position after the first shot.
Demonstrated Concepts LLC has put a lot of time into developing what he calls “cheekweld only” shooting styles that work extremely well with pistol grip only shotguns. He’s also the person behind the “cheek pistol” concept which is in many ways a similar concept but for a much smaller package.
@@frankl5963 Of course. He makes an honest effort to replicate the technique, but acknowledges that he may need more practice to use it well. In addition, he shows other techniques that may be useful for a similar application. An excellent lesson.
@@AdamA-pm3yn Single most dangerous outlook I've heard all week, succinctly put. Well done; daddy's proud. What experts actually can (and frequently) do is attend a class teaching said techniques before offering a definitive analysis.
I like Massad Ayoob's theory on the choice of guns for home defense: long guns are artillery, handguns are cavalry. He recommends having one of each at hand. If you *have* to move through your house (say, to pick up a child in another room), take the handgun. If you are waiting for the bad guy in a fixed position, use the long gun. Under Ayoob's theory, there is no reason to be pie-ing a corner with a long gun.
Gotta disagree-a long gun is better in every situation where you do not need to operate it one handed. Why not pick the heavier hitting, higher capacity weapon? Going around corners is an issue to train for, not a problem to dissuade you from using the bigger stick.
The technique is called Short Stocking. It's definitely a skill sensitive technique that requires significant training investment. It might be worth a revisit using a semi auto shotgun with a trigger guard mounted safety sometime.
That's exactly what I was thinking! Personally I have seen *some* guys (with a sample size of 3 dudes in a duck blind) using this to smoke birds way faster than the rest of us, but they were also 2 guys were using Beretta 1301S and the other some Remington semi. We later in the day asked them to try it with my 870 but all of them shortstroked at least a couple of times each. So I definitely think if this style is useful, in a real sense, it needs a semi.
@@MrLeGeNdCast Could also just be that since they used semi-autos to hunt with, that's primarily what they practice with. I would agree it's likely most effective with a semi auto, but can be done with a pump action if you're mindful and take your time working the action. In any case I think the purpose of the technique is for those instances in clearing a house where you're having to work corners and wouldn't necessarily want a 20 inch barrel poking out there and still need to be able to snap a round off without taking the time to shoulder the weapon.
@@joeyd1636 There is resistance to the recoil. With your hands on the appropriate positions you form a push-pull, and with the stock flat on your shoulder that makes a 3rd point of contact. Seriously just search up Short Stocking Shotgun and watch videos, it's extremely effective when done competently.
Paul thank you for all the content and long winded discussions. A nice change of pace from all the Call of Duty operators as entertaining as the memes may be.
During urban ops training we were shown this technique for cornering, mainly through doorways (not as part of the curriculum, just as a pointer). I found I really liked it for that purpose, and with a pistol-gripped weapon. Cornering is easy and fast, and it came intuitively for me. That said, I have to imagine it feels real uncomfortable with a traditional stock and without a thumb-actuated safety. Thanks for the video!
There's so few people out there like this guy. It's way too common to hear, "My way is the best! Every other way is stupid. Everybody should conform their opinions to mine!" Paul Harrell possesses the maturity of a well adjusted adult who can say what methods and tools he likes while not dismissing the methods and tools other people like. Such a rare kind of maturity that I wished more people had.
I'd say the neighbor's music was disturbing the concentration of the listeners, who'd love to get the full meaning of Paul's presentation, i.e. his wise words.
So, "over the shoulder", might and I do say, might, work for someone that is very familiar with their semi auto shotgun. The main point is, do the best you can with what you have. Mr. Harrell is doing an A+job demonstrating what most of us only dream of being able to do, at a professional level, with only what he has on hand and first hand. Thank you, Paul, for what you bust your tail on.
Since you aren't actually shouldering the weapon and it operates on recoil, it's much more likely to malfunction (since a lot of slide's energy will be dissipated in moving the weapon around rather than cycling). In particular, trying to use birdshot in that situation should be impossible; buckshot would probably cycle but it's not a great idea
When I read over the shoulder method, I some how imagined Paul throwing the shotgun over his shoulder to shoot behind himself. Now as someone who has qualified as an expert on the range, with a certified fire arms instructor during fire arms training for a fire arms commission in law enforcement. I have to agree with Paul, there are plenty of other methods that are easier to control recoil, as well as shoot faster and more accurately with. But we really need to see the one handed reloading method, of a pump shotgun. And Yes Paul, I am serious and have tried using a pump shotgun that way. That’s why I want to see you demonstrate it, to see if you have a similar opinion as I do on that method for home defense.
On a show called "The Deadliest Warrior" S-02, ep.03 it shows what a .45 cal revolver can do to the human skull. One strike split the skull analogue in half. Only thing holding the skull together was the ballistic gel over it.
"And here we have my friend Joe. Who was kind enough to allow me to pistol whip him in order to demonstrate the effectiveness on it's intended target." "Wait, what?" THWACK "Was it effective? You be the Judge."
It’s been used in Home Defense for over100 years already. Successfully. Still to this day, in the age of AR15/, many still have and use their lever-guns.
Some people only have a lever gun and those calibers are usually unique to only lever guns. They are more powerful, faster, and more accurate than a revolver. People still use pump shotguns over semi autos, why not use a lever gun over a semi auto.
Damn Paul, you were such a character. I know we have hickok45, demoranch, crazy AK guy (brandon herrera) but paul was so different,, straight to the point, no bullshit, no ads down your throat and most importantly he knew what he was talking about. you will be forever missed brother. RIP
I'm glad you made the statement at the end regarding the Shockwave and similar firearms. As a retired LEO that has conducted hundreds of search warrants (most of which were in city projects) I feel the Shockwave is an ideal firearm for certain situations, home defense being the main situation. Smaller homes and/or apartments make a smaller weapon advantageous and some of those places are really tight. I've been a fan of those smaller "other firearms" since they came out and with practice they have a definite place in law enforcement work and home defense.
@@KH-rt3ef Glad you agree. After conducting several hundred search warrants and most of them being in apartment buildings, experience says they are an extremely valuable tool.
Am I the only person that assumed he'd shoot something behind him, like facing one direction but flinging the gun over the shoulder and eliminating whatever stands behind
One of the best things about Paul is that just because he doesn't like a particular firearm, he doesn't demand no one else use it. He points out it's flaws, and he points out any benefits it may have, and lets "You be the judge."
That technique looks like it was DEFINITELY thought up by an internet commando mall ninja. 999 times out of 1000 the low ready is going to be fine and/or better. That other 1 time the shotgun being 4 inches shorter is going to be advantageous. The bad is always going to outweigh the good. You can't build "oh shit I am being shot at for the first time in my life" defense muscle memory for both techniques. Train for the 999, not the 1.
Paul, the over-the-shoulder technique, in my understanding, is for the initial encounter. Then pump reload from a normal position. Then you return to the over-the-shoulder position before advancing. Just my take. Going to have to compare the two techniques for myself, as you have suggested many times.
That's more or less the impression I had, as well, that it's for moving and getting off the first shot. Not sure how practical it would be to switch positions, but if you drill it enough, there might be some benefit. I wouldn't discount it entirely, anyway.
I believe the shotgun guys that advocate short stocking like this shoot with the push/pull technique; while Paul uses the pullrack technique (another good Paul video I just watched this week). So that's probably part of why they think it's good and it didn't work well for Paul.
I believe this is correct. I hope Paul sees your comment, but imagine he would say something to the effect of “the under the armpit method I suggested works regardless of whichever racking technique you use, but to each their own”. I personally wonder how much more or less viable this would be with a semiautomatic shotgun, but also imagine that Paul would bring up the fact semiautomatic shotguns aren’t legal in all jurisdictions.
@@judgementgaming3270 Personally I've messed around with doing both while running practice drills and I feel like the "over the shoulder" thing would work best with a pistol grip auto loader
I I don’t really think average Joe’s are capable of adequately handling one of those snubnose shotguns. When I think about it I remember over the decades all of the big tough cops around me that were terrified or hiding it of shooting a 12 gauge standard buck shot load. Nothing better than standard 870 and as many as could manage would not show up opt out or come up with some kind of excuse not to shoot it . I never could understand how some of that toughest blue suits would shy away from a simple shotgun and as few as six rounds🙄 Pretty much as far as I can tell they all made the one single stupid mistake it’s set them on that trail. They didn’t hold a gun tightly into their shoulder pocket and lean into it a tad. That’s the real key shooting those things especially in the very beginning when they’re nervous.
I very vaguely recall the U.S Army training their soldiers to use the M16 in "over the shoulder" fashion during the Iraq War. I saw this in a news segment some 18 years ago. I can't find the original clip but it would make much more sense to do this with a self loading weapon than a slide action shotgun.
Know what you're talking about as I've seen the same position used by troops in Iraq during urban/indoor/tight quarters work. With the M4/M16 it makes sense. I'd like to see how a recoil operated shotgun would function from that position....ps.. already know!
We were taught this when I was in the National Guard, a Light Infantry unit using M-16A2's. We did it one night, just one, and never used it again. Ever. We thought it was a stupid method, especially when we had SAW's - and some damn good Gunners - in the Unit as well
I learned to "compress" with a long gun when going around corners or into rooms, but as soon as I have the space, extend back out again. Over the shoulder works for me for that application, but I wouldnt want to only fire from that position
@@johnd4348 yeah worked well for me, though i did used to like it when we had a living room :( i guess explosives for home defense are slightly redundant.
@ 5:30 That sigh says so much with out saying a word. "The things I do for you people." Respect haha. Also super jelly you can actually find shotgun ammo!
One other benefit of the over-the-shoulder is that it puts the gun in a very common position to reload. I'm not saying it's a good idea to use over-the-shoulder for anymore than 1 or 2 shots BUT it could be very beneficial to practice that technique so that if you are caught in the middle of a reload, you can basically just drop your shells and pull the trigger without moving the gun
I have only ever really seen the position used to reload before being rotated back into shoulder alignment. A whole lot of things would have to go wrong to necessitate shooting repeatedly from that position.
You can also, for now, legally add a pistol brace to the Shockwave. SB Tactical sells kits for this purpose for the Shockwave and their Remington competition. Black Aces Tactical sells these types of firearms with braces already installed.
I can see the value of a Shock Wave platform when concealment is a priority but I'd go with a semi auto version, personally, so the gun can be fired with one hand if the need were to arise. That must take into account having a GOOD grip on the gun to ensure that the mechanism can operate properly with enough inertia and not short-stroke or outright jam up. Single handed capable would be valuable if you had an injured arm and unable to manipulate with two hands or if you need to corral/guide/assist children, elderly or injured people you end up responsible for. To me the biggest disadvantage to the ShockWave et al., is ammo capacity. You'd need a steady supply or cache nearby if you happen to be in a prolonged engagement. And that doesn't include how unwieldy the gun is to recharge with ammo, either. But if you NEED something you can discard once empty that has allowed you to break a violent engagement, sure, have at it. Personally I'd prefer some kind of shorty "pistol" in an AR platform form factor or same in an AK arrangement. 5.56 or 300 BO in the AR format and 7.62X39 or 5.54X39 in the AK. ALL are proven rounds and these days virtually all of them are reliable to the max. But gimme a full-size pump for social engagements if I KNOW it would be a perfect device for the pending task. I wouldn't feel undergunned in the least.
Guess I’ve been watching too many B movies because my first thought, being Halloween and all, is the Bruce Campbell move in Army of Darkness where the witch attacks him from behind so he points his double barrel shotgun directly behind him using his shoulder as support and blasts her. I’m also reminded of reading an account of a man in Africa helping a village dealing with lions and how one night he’s in the hut, he can see and hear the lion on the roof scratching its way in so he, I believe he had a double rifle, pointed the rifle straight up, holding it like he was at present arms, and pulled the trigger right into the lions face.
I've heard people reference that type of grip as "violin" because of the obvious relation to shouldering a violin. But that's just for reloading. I've never heard of anyone shooting a 12g from that position. I know I'm probably just a twinky femboy, but shooting 12g like that would probably send me to a dentist...
Same here. Seen it for competition reloading but was always taught to corkscrew it into the shoulder & if absolutely necessary, stow it under the armpit (hip/torso indexing). I always seemed to miss when I shot from the hip.
Glad I'm not the only twinky femboy rocking a 12g And yeah, shooting from the over-the-shoulder position would probably hurt me a lot more than my opponent...
@@MarcoPolo-zc6zoPractice hip -shooting with a Daisy BB Gun or a good airsoft . It far cheaper and less stressful and can be done alot of place where you can't shoot a regular firearm (backyard/in a residential area) , to get the ergonomics and your aim right. i prefer a Daisy being old and an old vet of BB gun wars
I saw a video about this technique and thought for me a low ready or under the armpit would be better. Glad to see Paul Harrell doing this demonstrations.
Always love the honest assessments (with some sarcasm) about what works for Paul and what someone might consider as they look at techniques and products.
Ok, gotta admit, I was expecting bad guy behind you, over the shoulder firing. Kinda Bugs Bunny with a hand mirror. :) Can we have a video on that next? :D
Same i heard stories from a veteran that said he did this in a rabbit hole (trench/tunnel under the ground) when someone was behind him and he couldn’t turn around because it was too cramped
As always brother great presentation with lots of good info Thank you Shotguns are a good all around defense weapon I believe that the multiple ammunition choices available for shotgun and the fact that there are very few places that prohibit them make them a very good choice for home defense So thank you again Have a great day brother God bless you and your's Just saying
Such a great breakdown. You rock Paul. I love how you don't dismiss things outright, but just go "for me, this isn't a good fit". Context is for Kings, so maybe that makes Paul royalty?
I feel like this would make sense for some sort of room entry, then transitioning to your standard shotgun presentation after you've made it through the threshold...also, I feel this would make much more sense with a semi auto as some of the other comments have pointed out. Either way superb presentation as always, Paul!
Maybe I don't quite understand semi autos as well as I think I do, but isn't there potential for a miss-feed with a semi auto if it doesnt have a hard point to recoil against? Similar to limp wristing a semi auto handgun.
I had such a similar thought last time I went to the range, my friend and I had just bought Mossberg's, his a brand new 88 and mine a beat-up police trade-in 500 with wood furniture. I had seen videos on this Marine half-stacking over the shoulder technique so we tried it out. We're no Paul, and we both found it as painful as it was inaccurate, and we both had a much better time firing from the hip and from under the armpit. I could see over the shoulder being good at point-blank if you were dead set on blowing someones head off, but beyond that we didn't like it.
1:40 - I did that to an SP one night when he unexpectedly stepped into the high bay area and started to pull his weapon up. It was purely instinct reaction to not let him do that. (I did not expect an armed person walking in with a long gun, I was expecting the pizza person.) The next few minutes (probably seconds) were intense and felt like hours. In the end, everyone agreed to forget it. 4:54 - It would have been better with the camera on the other side of you so we could see how much the stock kicks back in recoil. Of course, we know Paul has biceps like Arnold's legs (thus the bulky jacket always) so it probably doesn't kick back at all. 6:38 - Spoke too soon Thanks for an as-always excellent video.
I believe the over the shoulder method should only be used for one shot. Great video. The shock wave is my favorite LARPing firearm. I use mine solely for fun. Great range toy.
I love my mossberg 500, it is a great shotgun, but useless for home defense for me, for one reason: I have a 28 inch barrel lol. Great for hunting and shooting clays though. Really tight pattern.
I feel ya. When I was poor just getting on my own a few years back my home defense setup was a mosin because that was all I had. Not proud of it but I would have used if I had to. Thank God that never happened.
I use the low ready technique, and a 20 gauge instead of the 12 gauge. I seen your video on the 2 shotguns, and I believe for me, the 20 gauge will be just fine.
@@therealmccoy9948 People underestimate even .410 Bore shotguns, and a slug from a typical length one will give you ballistics vaguely comparable to a .41 Magnum revolver, not the powerhouse of its bigger brethren, but I sure as hell would feel confident with a loaded one if I heard a bump in the night. I can't think of any shotgun in common use which wouldn't be viable for defending yourself assuming suitable ammunition. It'd have to be one of those little .22 caliber rimfire 'ratshot' cartridges or something.
I’ve got a TAC-13 with a pistol brace- It can be carrier loaded, so it’s a 5+2 SBS without the paperwork. If you like a scattergun for home defense, I don’t see good reason for the longer barrel.
You brought up "cramped spaces" regarding the shockwave. These are extremely popular with the motor coach owners and probably a great choice for that application.
@@JohnDoe-gq6yg Yeah they're motorhomes, but I have been working on them for 30+ years and the terminology sticks in your head. I guess it's a way for people who buy drivable houses to feel a little better about dropping 2+ million on one. lol Good shooting to you!
Good & valid comments. I deployed with a shotgun on many occasions. It proved to be a very effective weapon. I utilized all the techniques you suggested, except for the over the shoulder technique. Commenting on your choice of shotgun (Mossberg pump). My boss & I trained SOTG of the USMC with a 590 Mossberg. I had used the 870, model 34, & the Benelli Entry Model. After training the Marines with their Mossberg S/G I was impressed by the ruggedness of the 590. I do like your technique of deployment with the shotgun under the armpit. Thank you for the video!👍😊🇺🇸✝️
FYI I trained with the British Army using the SLR or FAL (US) - In the confined spaces of Fighting In Built Up Areas, we often carried this long rifle with the butt outside the crook of our elbow - very similar to the over the shoulder technique you demonstrated - its great for confined spaces and for getting out of vehicles. In theory, you can fire like this but we were always taught to bring the rifle to the shoulder from this position - a fraction of a second - accuracy was incredibly important with the 7.62 full metal jacket bullet which could easily punch through walls of heavily built up areas. Love your channel btw - a huge fan.
Before you mentioned the guy advocating for this, and dismissing the Shockwave, I was thinking “so, you’re basically turning your shotgun into a Shockwave?” Perhaps a folding stock would be a better option?
As always I love Paul's demonstrations. I personally use a Kel-tec KS-7 for home defense. It's about the same length as the Mossberg shockwave, an 18.5 inch barrel, 7+1 capacity with 2.75" rounds, and the fiber optic sight really helps in low light situations. After mounting a flashlight to it I really can't think of a better home defense gun for my small apartment.
KS7 is underrated in that aspect. You get a full sized pump action shotgun in terms of effectiveness while condensed into a package that is equivalent to the size of a sawed off pump action shotgun
Other points to consider with low ready vs over the shoulder. Consider a semi-automatic Shotgun and a reflex sight for faster target acquisition, nullifying the need to work an action, add in a pistol grip and controlling recoil is easier to manage. All things a Saiga-12 or Bernelli can come out of the box with. Choice is yours shooter on what you feel comfortable with.
I would think that the over-the-shoulder technique would also have a substantially greater impact on temporary hearing loss by placing the percussion closest to the side of the shooter's your head.
The 590 Shockwave works really well with mini shotgun shells. You can get a plastic magazine follower so the shells handle well and you gain a large capacity. Very good for home defense, snowmobiles etc.
There seems to be some confusion. Many people (including Chris Baker) have erroneously thought I was making fun of the video Lucky Gunner did on this topic. I wasn't.
I have not watched their video on this topic. I saw a few vids on the subject, but not theirs.
Paul, in the Infantry, before we got telescoping stock M4 carbines, we used this short stocking technique w/the longer butt stock M16 A2 semi auto rifle when we cleared rooms in CQB / MOUT operations. . .the technique wasn't meant for a pump action shotgun. But if you had to use this technique w/a shotgun while clearing extremely tight quarters you'd ideally get off one shot before the opposition then quickly transition to slide the butt down into the shoulder pocket for follow ups.
But we only used this short stocking technique w/the semi-auto M16A2 rifle in CQB during MOUT while clearing extreme close quarters. The M4 Carbine Rifle negated this technique due to a telescoping stock. Hope this lends some clarity to the subject. HOOAH.
Who’s Chris Baker???
Thanks Paul for the video and demonstration! Not a 'one size fits all' technique is what I got from it.
Andrew, I understand your point about the A2 but when people asked me about it they were speaking specifically about pump shotguns.
@@PaulHarrell Thank you for the clarification on that brother. I appreciate your channel. I'm long time supporter. Your channel's the very best firearms channel on U-tube. HOOAH.
Now we need to see Paul showing us the advantages and disadvantages of using a lever shotgun one handed while on a motorcycle.
COME WITH ME IF YOU WANT TO LIVE
Sorta like dis? ruclips.net/video/BywwmYB4x9A/видео.html
I believe Paul actually IS capable of doing that without a stuntman's help!
Don't forget the "Shooting from between your legs" in order to look cool and dishearten the enemy... Shouting incoherent obscenities gives you a +10 to intimidation. 🤣
How about with the Uzi nine millimeter?
Paul, as a servicemember I would like you to know that you have brought so much joy to my life with your well thought out videos. You are a good man and I truly appreciate your time and effort to inform us and make us smile. From the bottom of my heart, thank you.
Agreed 👍
I second that, thank you!
for sure
Absolutely! Here's to you Paul!
Great comment, I agree. Thanks for your service bud.
Going to miss this guy. Anyone else watching his back catalogue?
Me! I had never seen his videos until I saw Administrative Results put out his video about it. I wish I had discovered this guy years ago
You know it dawg
Yes
Me
Amen.
Been binge watching every single video.
Paul’s an absolute legend.
Watching Paul get upset about the music while full well knowing he’s about to blast some 12 gauge is pure gold
Neighbors, hearing shotgun fire 400 yards away:
"Dude! Now *there's* the sound of actual heavy metal, a quarter-mile away!"
genuinely made me laugh when he said that
Love it, right up there with *RANGE*
It was called "barrel shortening" when I was in the USMC. It was done with M9s and M16s. Neither of which had the recoil of a 12ga. As a SAW gunner it was recommended that I use the patrol position which is the under the armpit and support hand pushing down on the barrel shroud. If I had to choose, I would go armpit if I really thought it necessary.
I'd like to see you do the over the shoulder with a saw or especially a 60 ! 😯 SEMPER FI Leatherneck !
@Irish Man you forgot 1371.
I'm not seeing the need to "shorten" with a pistol, if you're in a cqb environment with a pistol you would normally be at compressed high ready the fun part about that particular position is you can easily shoot from it
@@jaredevildog6343 don't mess with your engineers. Things might get explody.
@Irish Man "Corp." Corporation? Corps, my friend!
Police investigator: "Did you happen to see the home invaders face?"
Mr. Harrell: "No. He didn't have one after I defended myself."
Ctrl alt yeet face
"I will be exonerated."
taste the red mist!
Nah that was the last thing that went through his mind 🤷🏼♂️😂🤔
Yes I saw it stuck to the wall.
I enjoy Paul, especially his humble nature. Despite being an amazing shooter and having an unbelievable amount of knowledge and experience he always makes sure to be kind to new shooters and anyone he interacts with and not belittle anyone.
Yes, another thing I respect about Paul.
Fully agree, although he does do a fine job of belittling the know-it-all armchair quarterbacks out there, the tacticool clowns who like to portray themselves as the grand poobahs of the gun world. Love those jabs.
I know this to be true. A genuine gentleman.
Completley agree, I have a huge amount of respect and time for Paul..always come away feeling like I have learnt something.
I know back in 2003ish and in the Marines Corps, we used the "short stocking" technique for very tight spots in CQB when using a M16A2. Also, remember if you are in a low ready and someone grabs your barrel/muzzle, quickly dropping to a kneeling position can get that muzzle on target.
In the first Jason Bourne movie, when he is in the embassy, you see one of the Marines short stocking his M16 when they are mobilizing to get Jason Bourne. I didn't know what that was until years later. I would rather do that with an M16 than a 12 gauge.
I've seen people short stocking M4s to get around obstacles and barriers without having to back up as far, good to know it has a good pedigree.
We were training that way in 2009-2014
We short-stocked the M12 shotgun underarm and on our hip in riot control situations. It was surprisingly workable. But your average citizen is normally not as fit as your average Marine.
Different recoil...
One of the things I dig about Paul is that he can say something isn't for him, but it may work for others. In today's world too many people wanna tell you you're wrong if you're not doing it their way, with their gear. Good presentation sir!! 👍
Yeah. This applies to many things as well. Everyone is so black and white,
Once again, the main takeaway from this video is “do not break into Paul’s house.”
He probably isnt even home most of the time what with all the traveling and videos and what-not.
Last thing you hear... "Now we have our "perp" target set up 5 yards away, let's see how we do."
@@MrSquigglies "Did we kill him? You be the Judge."
Don't break in to anyone's house. Breaking into Paul Harrel's house voids any heath/life insurance policy !
You won’t get 9 pellet. You get 12.
Always brings a smile to my face when paul uploads
Agreeed
Roger that.
KINOOOOO
M’kay…
You are the best speaker I've ever seen. Never a "Ah" "um" or any other filler word because you lost your place.
Ain't nobody got time for dat
I would not be surprised at all if he had a stutter as a kid, and being Paul Harrell, he put all his effort into fixing it.
Ah! Ah! Ah! What am I doing here? : Joe Biden. Let's go Brandon!
@@regularfather4708 He's a consummate professional in all he does!!! I'm sure he doesn't need a teleprompter like the Resident of 1600 PN Ave!!!
@@regularfather4708
He had some type of speech impediment that is now barely noticeable and does whole new takes if it isn't too long to be satisfied. I had an issue with a lot of fill sounds and worked on it after some friends kept a tally. Nothing wrong with a pause. If there is a mistake or you have to find something, say nothing, breath and fix it. They all have to wait and apologizing isn't helpful.
This is why I appreciate Paul as much as I do.. “I don’t like this weapon” but it serves a purpose and you may like it. I know not a direct quote but I appreciate that his experience AND situation are not mine. Personally I don’t like the shockwave either but I have friends that do. And he ain’t kidding when he says it fits in a gym bag.....
I have the 870 AOW version of a shockwave and it's a cool gun but it wouldn't be my first choice for home defense. I also have a KSG which is the same length overall and just a better gun in basically every way. You can shoulder fire the KSG, it holds 7+7+1, it's easy to mount an optic if you like. Overall it's just a more effective weapon in a similar length package. They also have a KS7 which is a single magazine version that is lighter and simpler.
For example, the Taurus Judge might serve a purpose as a paperweight. :P
Right? Not a fan of those who claim to teach yet immediately disparage ideas they don’t like.
The most amazing thing about Paul is he hasn't murdered thousands of folding tables.
Thanks for what you do. Your methods, techniques, experience, and humor are much appreciated.
Well said!
I happen to like his Shatner'esk pauses, just a part of authentic Paul Harrell. I definitely appreciate his meat target comparison, and soda bottles are fun. Above all he's definitely thorough!
Yes sir !, what Server Error said.
To make an obvious point (with apologies). With the "under the armpit" low ready, one can also brace/squeeze the longarm against the body. This will help some with recoil. With the "over the shoulder", the weapon floats more. This requires more strength to manage the weapon. Complexity under stress can contribute to performance failure. Likewise, as a once upon a time "educator", I'd prefer starting with something that works well for people of different ages, body types and sizes, and levels of fitness. The more advanced -- as they advance -- will find their own path and what works best for them.
Thank you! I've never used "under the armpit" and after this video I have to try it out. Thanks for the extra info :)
Well stated! I agree 👍👍👍.
The method you descibe has been referred to as "under arm assault".
Over the shoulder is also a bad idea if one has rear sight or optic mounted on the shotgun.
@@stevennewman4778 its really a point and shoot method. I guess a bead or fiber optic site could be attached 90 degrees from top but at 7 yards or less just seems unnecessary.
I was taught over the shoulder with rifles for cqc situations. I can see how using a pump shotgun can be difficult, maybe a semi auto one would be better. I've actually never heard of using over the shoulder technique with a shotgun until this video...
I agree. I think just having it tucked underneath your armpit is a bit more practical.
Semiautos would be likely to malfunction. A full length AR recoils so softly it can be held in place just fine. An ounce of buck? No.
@@mannys9130 done over the shoulder in a shooting house with my 16" AR, no malfunctions.
I was basically shooting it with a 90º tilt ejecting up towards the ceiling.
I'll do my shotgun tomorrow and let you know if it malfunctions.
@@mannys9130 I've practiced OTS with a semi 12ga. It works just fine for mine, but definitely agree some designs will be sensitive to it.
@@mannys9130 benellis with a bunch of crap on the front don't like it.
Mossbergs do well.
Go with what you know well.
Love Paul's matter-of-fact mannerism. It exudes expertise and confidence. Oh, and his humor is also subtle and well-done.
Dubbs McGee
I agree with your post but I would hate to play poker with Paul
Never heard of the over the shoulder shotgun technique, kinda glad I haven't, Thanks Paul!
Petition for Paul to start a 'home offense' series
I think that's called a home invasion and that's illegal
a good Chow Chow definitely worked for me in the past; I got lucky though
he was a natural guardian with little training(R.I.P. Tuffy)
And the survival series would be great!!
Would this just be paul saying "well, you know what they say about a good defense" while outside some random persons house before kicking in the door and comitting a massacre? i mean they cant invade your home if you invade theirs first i guess.....
After seeing this over the shoulder technique 2-3 months ago, I tried it with only one 5 round tube of shells. It was extremely awkward, inefficient, and produced poor accuracy for me. I realize that was not a fair test of a new shooting motion. However, I do know that I and any upland bird hunter and sporting clay shooter is very well practiced in mounting the butt of a shotgun from a below the armpit position. It is very easy to modify the starting position to under and behind the armpit and still mount the gun as you would when a covey of quail flushes. This recommendation from you seems to be a very good solution to reducing the distance the barrel is out in front of me when clearing a building or in a gun battle utilizing cover/concealment. Thank you.
Believe it's intended for one round fired at very close range before returning the shotgun to the shoulder.
@@montycasper4300 this is the way I have always trained. "Short stroke" the gun by placing it over the shoulder before entering a doorway or very tight hallway. If necessary, fire from thar position. In general you will want to transition to mounted on the shoulder like normal. Not really a practical technique for anything other than entry
Like the other replies, not really a multi-shot position. However I do think the over the shoulder technique may have some greater merit when reloading a shotgun. Something I’d like to have seen Paul address as well. Although I’m not sure how situations really require the reloading of a shotgun that has 5-8 round capacity.
@@MrDmthomp32 The capacity thing for civilian defense is nonsense to sell new models. Cops can magdump and hope to hit something, coz they have qualified immunity and police unions with seven figure defense funds. You and I would be coitus'd if a missed round hit a bystander or even the engine block of a decent late model car. Almost all shootings are very close range and with a couple of rounds fired. Paul being a case in point, his sole real world shooting was in a camp ground where he fired a shotgun shell through the windshield of some drunken fool he seems to have upset and decided to drive through his camp site. Initially charged with murder, before charges dropped after some time.
@@montycasper4300 Sounds like you may have issues with LE. It has always been the armed citizen's moral and legal responsibility to not injure or kill innocents in front of, behind, or adjacent to their target. As for capacity, I'll always take 5+ over 4- for defensive purposes..
Glad to see more home defense videos! These are always great from you!
Paul, one thing you overlooked in demonstrating shooting in the over-the-shoulder method is that it is a merely a ready position so someone can't grab your gun. After the first shot you can go to the regular position to rack the slide and make follow-up shots. There is no need to remain in the over-the-shoulder position after the first shot.
Former 1st Cav here, Mr. Harrell. I just want to say your videos are a bright spot for me and I hope you never change, man.
It brings me so much joy that Paul owns a shockwave.
He also owns a Taurus Judge, so...
They are fun range toys and safe queens for sure. So is the Judge. Self respecting gun owners don't use either for self defense.
Shockwaves are fun pumpkin slayers!
Demonstrated Concepts LLC has put a lot of time into developing what he calls “cheekweld only” shooting styles that work extremely well with pistol grip only shotguns. He’s also the person behind the “cheek pistol” concept which is in many ways a similar concept but for a much smaller package.
Apparently it doesn't bring Paul much joy...
Paul's shotgun technique lesson? Always worth a watch.
If you call "replicating a technique he heard someone talking about without any training on how to do it" a lesson, sure.
@@frankl5963 Of course. He makes an honest effort to replicate the technique, but acknowledges that he may need more practice to use it well. In addition, he shows other techniques that may be useful for a similar application. An excellent lesson.
@@AdamA-pm3yn Single most dangerous outlook I've heard all week, succinctly put. Well done; daddy's proud. What experts actually can (and frequently) do is attend a class teaching said techniques before offering a definitive analysis.
A Saturday evening accompanied by a new video from Paul is always a good Saturday evening.
Every time Paul Harrell operates a firearm, the firearm looks like an extension of his body.
I like Massad Ayoob's theory on the choice of guns for home defense: long guns are artillery, handguns are cavalry. He recommends having one of each at hand. If you *have* to move through your house (say, to pick up a child in another room), take the handgun. If you are waiting for the bad guy in a fixed position, use the long gun. Under Ayoob's theory, there is no reason to be pie-ing a corner with a long gun.
Yes, I too agree with Mas. He has a good point. I am not doing clearing operations. I don't have a squad to do it right.
Gotta disagree-a long gun is better in every situation where you do not need to operate it one handed.
Why not pick the heavier hitting, higher capacity weapon? Going around corners is an issue to train for, not a problem to dissuade you from using the bigger stick.
The technique is called Short Stocking. It's definitely a skill sensitive technique that requires significant training investment. It might be worth a revisit using a semi auto shotgun with a trigger guard mounted safety sometime.
That's exactly what I was thinking!
Personally I have seen *some* guys (with a sample size of 3 dudes in a duck blind) using this to smoke birds way faster than the rest of us, but they were also 2 guys were using Beretta 1301S and the other some Remington semi. We later in the day asked them to try it with my 870 but all of them shortstroked at least a couple of times each. So I definitely think if this style is useful, in a real sense, it needs a semi.
@@MrLeGeNdCast Could also just be that since they used semi-autos to hunt with, that's primarily what they practice with. I would agree it's likely most effective with a semi auto, but can be done with a pump action if you're mindful and take your time working the action. In any case I think the purpose of the technique is for those instances in clearing a house where you're having to work corners and wouldn't necessarily want a 20 inch barrel poking out there and still need to be able to snap a round off without taking the time to shoulder the weapon.
Couldnt you potentially have issues with a semi-auto not cycling the next round ,without having any resistance to the recoil?
@@joeyd1636 There is resistance to the recoil. With your hands on the appropriate positions you form a push-pull, and with the stock flat on your shoulder that makes a 3rd point of contact. Seriously just search up Short Stocking Shotgun and watch videos, it's extremely effective when done competently.
@@joeyd1636 this is a very good point sir. I
Hope someone with real life experience can help answer…
*_It’s always a pleasure to hear an expert explain, when the expert knows what the phlock he is talking about._*
Paul thank you for all the content and long winded discussions. A nice change of pace from all the Call of Duty operators as entertaining as the memes may be.
cod made the .410 lever action the most powerful weapon in the game
sounds right
During urban ops training we were shown this technique for cornering, mainly through doorways (not as part of the curriculum, just as a pointer). I found I really liked it for that purpose, and with a pistol-gripped weapon. Cornering is easy and fast, and it came intuitively for me. That said, I have to imagine it feels real uncomfortable with a traditional stock and without a thumb-actuated safety.
Thanks for the video!
There's so few people out there like this guy. It's way too common to hear, "My way is the best! Every other way is stupid. Everybody should conform their opinions to mine!" Paul Harrell possesses the maturity of a well adjusted adult who can say what methods and tools he likes while not dismissing the methods and tools other people like. Such a rare kind of maturity that I wished more people had.
Funny, Paul is commenting that his neighbor's music is disturbing his gunfire...
I'd say the neighbor's music was disturbing the concentration of the listeners, who'd love to get the full meaning of Paul's presentation, i.e. his wise words.
@@demezon6572 But it's a lot funnier putting it the other way. :)
Well… it is.
don't ya just hate it when that happens? ROFL.
Found the liberal
I personally advocate the "Buy a damn 18" Mossberg 500" technique.
Optionally, put a pistol grip and a brace on the Shockwave, and now it's a short shotgun that can be fired from the shoulder.
I advocate get the 590 and put a bayonet on the end of it technique. Let the bad guy have fun grabbing that when you come around a corner.
Taurus judge loaded with slugs is the ideal self defense shotgun.
I love how aggressive Paul is! Not that he’s attacking anyone, rather he’s very enthusiastic about the topic.
So, "over the shoulder", might and I do say, might, work for someone that is very familiar with their semi auto shotgun. The main point is, do the best you can with what you have. Mr. Harrell is doing an A+job demonstrating what most of us only dream of being able to do, at a professional level, with only what he has on hand and first hand. Thank you, Paul, for what you bust your tail on.
Since you aren't actually shouldering the weapon and it operates on recoil, it's much more likely to malfunction (since a lot of slide's energy will be dissipated in moving the weapon around rather than cycling). In particular, trying to use birdshot in that situation should be impossible; buckshot would probably cycle but it's not a great idea
When I read over the shoulder method, I some how imagined Paul throwing the shotgun over his shoulder to shoot behind himself. Now as someone who has qualified as an expert on the range, with a certified fire arms instructor during fire arms training for a fire arms commission in law enforcement. I have to agree with Paul, there are plenty of other methods that are easier to control recoil, as well as shoot faster and more accurately with. But we really need to see the one handed reloading method, of a pump shotgun. And Yes Paul, I am serious and have tried using a pump shotgun that way. That’s why I want to see you demonstrate it, to see if you have a similar opinion as I do on that method for home defense.
*Breaking in* “Please bear with the sound of gunfire. Today, we will see what types of loads it takes to stop an intruder.”
"Let's see if there will be overpenetration. For those who haven't seen it before, these are what I call, The Meat Targets"
*criminals start sweating
Paul Harrell should do a video on the Effectiveness of pistol Whipping and Bayonet thrusting !!!!
It'd be a good addition to his display of hands and feet as weapons.
On a show called "The Deadliest Warrior" S-02, ep.03 it shows what a .45 cal revolver can do to the human skull. One strike split the skull analogue in half. Only thing holding the skull together was the ballistic gel over it.
"And here we have my friend Joe. Who was kind enough to allow me to pistol whip him in order to demonstrate the effectiveness on it's intended target."
"Wait, what?" THWACK
"Was it effective? You be the Judge."
I'll be staying with my low ready and my Mossberg 590. Great demonstration Paul.
It would be very interesting to see Paul talk about using a lever gun in a home defense/combat role.
It’s been used in Home Defense for over100 years already. Successfully. Still to this day, in the age of AR15/, many still have and use their lever-guns.
... Why lol
Some people only have a lever gun and those calibers are usually unique to only lever guns. They are more powerful, faster, and more accurate than a revolver. People still use pump shotguns over semi autos, why not use a lever gun over a semi auto.
@@foodooyou1 Because it's an unnecessary disadvantage. You shouldn't use an inferior platform unless its the only thing you have
Second this
Damn Paul, you were such a character. I know we have hickok45, demoranch, crazy AK guy (brandon herrera) but paul was so different,, straight to the point, no bullshit, no ads down your throat and most importantly he knew what he was talking about. you will be forever missed brother. RIP
I'm glad you made the statement at the end regarding the Shockwave and similar firearms. As a retired LEO that has conducted hundreds of search warrants (most of which were in city projects) I feel the Shockwave is an ideal firearm for certain situations, home defense being the main situation. Smaller homes and/or apartments make a smaller weapon advantageous and some of those places are really tight. I've been a fan of those smaller "other firearms" since they came out and with practice they have a definite place in law enforcement work and home defense.
I like the fact that the Shockwave has a raked handgrip unlike my old Mossberg's vertical one, that sucker just kills the web of my hand.
That’s not what Ian said on ForgottenWeapons lmao. But I agree with you.
@@shorttimer874
Agreed. 👍
@@KH-rt3ef
Glad you agree. After conducting several hundred search warrants and most of them being in apartment buildings, experience says they are an extremely valuable tool.
@Grand Crusader
👍
Keep ‘em coming Paul.
Another winner from the Master. Anyone who argues with him is just plain nuts.
The country’s full of nuts.
The over-the-shoulder method seems like the shotgun equivalent of holding your .40 caliber semi-auto handgun sideways.
What if I hold a rifle sideways to show how much of a bad-*ss I am? :)
Muh problem solva
@@markh.6687 ah yes, do it with a machine-gun for maximum coolness
The "Hollywood Style" like in movies.
Am I the only person that assumed he'd shoot something behind him, like facing one direction but flinging the gun over the shoulder and eliminating whatever stands behind
One of the best things about Paul is that just because he doesn't like a particular firearm, he doesn't demand no one else use it. He points out it's flaws, and he points out any benefits it may have, and lets "You be the judge."
That technique looks like it was DEFINITELY thought up by an internet commando mall ninja. 999 times out of 1000 the low ready is going to be fine and/or better. That other 1 time the shotgun being 4 inches shorter is going to be advantageous. The bad is always going to outweigh the good. You can't build "oh shit I am being shot at for the first time in my life" defense muscle memory for both techniques.
Train for the 999, not the 1.
@Fart even that technique doesn't work well with rifles.
Suggested from a rising star of the what if brigade...it not utterly useless, it's just ridiculous.
I learned it in marine corps boot camp in the early zeroes. They called it short stocking. It works fine at distances shorter than an m16.
It came straight from the Manual For Tactical Tards.
I bet someone played Metal Gear Solid 4 and was like "Oh! that stance looks cool!"
Paul, the over-the-shoulder technique, in my understanding, is for the initial encounter. Then pump reload from a normal position. Then you return to the over-the-shoulder position before advancing. Just my take. Going to have to compare the two techniques for myself, as you have suggested many times.
That's more or less the impression I had, as well, that it's for moving and getting off the first shot. Not sure how practical it would be to switch positions, but if you drill it enough, there might be some benefit. I wouldn't discount it entirely, anyway.
@@AngelicusEXperiment I thought it was just for breaking planes; doorways, stairwells, car hoods, etc.
Indeed, when you use it how it’s intended and not as a run and gun, it works really well. Also heard it called “short-stocking”
ruclips.net/video/PCqJIW4_K7s/видео.html
I guess you never watch the last few seconds of all Paul's presentations - he _always_ admonishes us to _not_ try this at home. 😀
I believe the shotgun guys that advocate short stocking like this shoot with the push/pull technique; while Paul uses the pullrack technique (another good Paul video I just watched this week). So that's probably part of why they think it's good and it didn't work well for Paul.
I believe this is correct. I hope Paul sees your comment, but imagine he would say something to the effect of “the under the armpit method I suggested works regardless of whichever racking technique you use, but to each their own”. I personally wonder how much more or less viable this would be with a semiautomatic shotgun, but also imagine that Paul would bring up the fact semiautomatic shotguns aren’t legal in all jurisdictions.
@@judgementgaming3270 Personally I've messed around with doing both while running practice drills and I feel like the "over the shoulder" thing would work best with a pistol grip auto loader
I I don’t really think average Joe’s are capable of adequately handling one of those snubnose shotguns. When I think about it I remember over the decades all of the big tough cops around me that were terrified or hiding it of shooting a 12 gauge standard buck shot load. Nothing better than standard 870 and as many as could manage would not show up opt out or come up with some kind of excuse not to shoot it . I never could understand how some of that toughest blue suits would shy away from a simple shotgun and as few as six rounds🙄
Pretty much as far as I can tell they all made the one single stupid mistake it’s set them on that trail. They didn’t hold a gun tightly into their shoulder pocket and lean into it a tad. That’s the real key shooting those things especially in the very beginning when they’re nervous.
I'm ready for the Halloween Witch technique. That's where you straddle the shotgun like a witch riding a broom.
5:16 - Paul delivers a follow up shot faster than most could with a semi-auto. "Still goofing me up on working the slide"
I very vaguely recall the U.S Army training their soldiers to use the M16 in "over the shoulder" fashion during the Iraq War. I saw this in a news segment some 18 years ago. I can't find the original clip but it would make much more sense to do this with a self loading weapon than a slide action shotgun.
Know what you're talking about as I've seen the same position used by troops in Iraq during urban/indoor/tight quarters work. With the M4/M16 it makes sense. I'd like to see how a recoil operated shotgun would function from that position....ps.. already know!
With an M16A2 that might make more sense. It's just a relatively long rifle with it's 20" barrel and NATO length fixed stock compared to even an M4A1.
ruclips.net/video/PCqJIW4_K7s/видео.html
We were taught this when I was in the National Guard, a Light Infantry unit using M-16A2's. We did it one night, just one, and never used it again. Ever. We thought it was a stupid method, especially when we had SAW's - and some damn good Gunners - in the Unit as well
Another point is a M16/AR15 type weapon in 5.56 has a lot less recoil than a 12 gauge.
Another succinct examination from Paul. Love to get his impressions of the Standard DP-12...
I learned to "compress" with a long gun when going around corners or into rooms, but as soon as I have the space, extend back out again. Over the shoulder works for me for that application, but I wouldnt want to only fire from that position
That came to my mind as well. I`m contemplating a Shockwave but maybe both would be best.
I learned to throw a gernade into the room before I enter. Case closed.
@@johnd4348 Bathroom cleared but no pot to piss in! 8-D
@@johnd4348 yeah worked well for me, though i did used to like it when we had a living room :( i guess explosives for home defense are slightly redundant.
Y'know...it's extremely rare I come across someone who inspires hitting that subscribe button in just one video, but damned if this ain't one of 'em!
@ 5:30 That sigh says so much with out saying a word. "The things I do for you people." Respect haha. Also super jelly you can actually find shotgun ammo!
I've heard this called "short-stocking" and it's applied to rifles in CQB too!
I've seen some videos of ladies do this with rifles. It's a useful technique for applying bruiśe mascara.
@@Jabberwockybird lolz
One other benefit of the over-the-shoulder is that it puts the gun in a very common position to reload.
I'm not saying it's a good idea to use over-the-shoulder for anymore than 1 or 2 shots BUT it could be very beneficial to practice that technique so that if you are caught in the middle of a reload, you can basically just drop your shells and pull the trigger without moving the gun
Good point.
I have only ever really seen the position used to reload before being rotated back into shoulder alignment. A whole lot of things would have to go wrong to necessitate shooting repeatedly from that position.
If you have to reload an extended tube shotgun, that is the last of concerns.
I would love to see Paul's take on modifying the Shockwave with Demonstrated Concept's "Recoil Strap" and, subsequently, his cheek weld technique.
You can also, for now, legally add a pistol brace to the Shockwave. SB Tactical sells kits for this purpose for the Shockwave and their Remington competition. Black Aces Tactical sells these types of firearms with braces already installed.
@@RichWhiteUM Before the mess at Remington happened, they offered a factory version as well.
My Shockwave came with the SBTactical brace.
I can see the value of a Shock Wave platform when concealment is a priority but I'd go with a semi auto version, personally, so the gun can be fired with one hand if the need were to arise. That must take into account having a GOOD grip on the gun to ensure that the mechanism can operate properly with enough inertia and not short-stroke or outright jam up.
Single handed capable would be valuable if you had an injured arm and unable to manipulate with two hands or if you need to corral/guide/assist children, elderly or injured people you end up responsible for.
To me the biggest disadvantage to the ShockWave et al., is ammo capacity.
You'd need a steady supply or cache nearby if you happen to be in a prolonged engagement. And that doesn't include how unwieldy the gun is to recharge with ammo, either.
But if you NEED something you can discard once empty that has allowed you to break a violent engagement, sure, have at it. Personally I'd prefer some kind of shorty "pistol" in an AR platform form factor or same in an AK arrangement. 5.56 or 300 BO in the AR format and 7.62X39 or 5.54X39 in the AK. ALL are proven rounds and these days virtually all of them are reliable to the max.
But gimme a full-size pump for social engagements if I KNOW it would be a perfect device for the pending task. I wouldn't feel undergunned in the least.
@@user-td1zo3tv9p I would have gone with the Remington but they weren't out when I got mine.
“Skeet Shooter Ready”/armpit ready looks like a sensible alternative to low ready in very close quarters.
They both have their application, short stocking is just another arrow in the quiver.
I recall many years ago being given a shipboard class on shotguns where the under the armpit position was called "short stocking".
You know what works well over the shoulder, Paul? The salt that a person tosses over said shoulder after spilling some, haha
🤯
"Kick his ass Seabass!"
Guess I’ve been watching too many B movies because my first thought, being Halloween and all, is the Bruce Campbell move in Army of Darkness where the witch attacks him from behind so he points his double barrel shotgun directly behind him using his shoulder as support and blasts her.
I’m also reminded of reading an account of a man in Africa helping a village dealing with lions and how one night he’s in the hut, he can see and hear the lion on the roof scratching its way in so he, I believe he had a double rifle, pointed the rifle straight up, holding it like he was at present arms, and pulled the trigger right into the lions face.
Groovy 😁
Hail to the king, baby.
"Yo, she-bitch.... let's go!"
That's such a great movie, Evil Dead 2 is also fantastic
Bruce campbell, Joe Biden, and a healthy dose of Red Dead Redemption taught me everything I need to know about double barrel shotguns.
@@nicholaslittlefield4424 That is funny.
I've heard people reference that type of grip as "violin" because of the obvious relation to shouldering a violin. But that's just for reloading. I've never heard of anyone shooting a 12g from that position. I know I'm probably just a twinky femboy, but shooting 12g like that would probably send me to a dentist...
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
I've been to the dentist for something similar 😅
Same here. Seen it for competition reloading but was always taught to corkscrew it into the shoulder & if absolutely necessary, stow it under the armpit (hip/torso indexing). I always seemed to miss when I shot from the hip.
Glad I'm not the only twinky femboy rocking a 12g
And yeah, shooting from the over-the-shoulder position would probably hurt me a lot more than my opponent...
@@MarcoPolo-zc6zoPractice hip -shooting with a Daisy BB Gun or a good airsoft . It far cheaper and less stressful and can be done alot of place where you can't shoot a regular firearm (backyard/in a residential area) , to get the ergonomics and your aim right. i prefer a Daisy being old and an old vet of BB gun wars
I saw a video about this technique and thought for me a low ready or under the armpit would be better. Glad to see Paul Harrell doing this demonstrations.
Always love the honest assessments (with some sarcasm) about what works for Paul and what someone might consider as they look at techniques and products.
Ok, gotta admit, I was expecting bad guy behind you, over the shoulder firing. Kinda Bugs Bunny with a hand mirror. :)
Can we have a video on that next? :D
Me too.
Same! :-)
Yep, that’s what went through my mind!
Same i heard stories from a veteran that said he did this in a rabbit hole (trench/tunnel under the ground) when someone was behind him and he couldn’t turn around because it was too cramped
yeah, thought that's what he was going to talk about and was a little worried
As always brother great presentation with lots of good info
Thank you
Shotguns are a good all around defense weapon I believe that the multiple ammunition choices available for shotgun and the fact that there are very few places that prohibit them make them a very good choice for home defense
So thank you again
Have a great day brother
God bless you and your's
Just saying
Such a great breakdown. You rock Paul. I love how you don't dismiss things outright, but just go "for me, this isn't a good fit". Context is for Kings, so maybe that makes Paul royalty?
I feel like this would make sense for some sort of room entry, then transitioning to your standard shotgun presentation after you've made it through the threshold...also, I feel this would make much more sense with a semi auto as some of the other comments have pointed out. Either way superb presentation as always, Paul!
Not to mention it's use in a stack or part of an entry team.
Maybe I don't quite understand semi autos as well as I think I do, but isn't there potential for a miss-feed with a semi auto if it doesnt have a hard point to recoil against? Similar to limp wristing a semi auto handgun.
@@liamsludge2659 I mean you'd still be holding onto the pistol grip, so it *should* be okay but would be interesting to test.
@@liamsludge2659 Please read my post.
@@remorseraven4459 Please read my post.
Thank Paul for a critical analysis
I had such a similar thought last time I went to the range, my friend and I had just bought Mossberg's, his a brand new 88 and mine a beat-up police trade-in 500 with wood furniture. I had seen videos on this Marine half-stacking over the shoulder technique so we tried it out. We're no Paul, and we both found it as painful as it was inaccurate, and we both had a much better time firing from the hip and from under the armpit. I could see over the shoulder being good at point-blank if you were dead set on blowing someones head off, but beyond that we didn't like it.
When Paul said “Go Figure” I could not stop laughing 😆
My inner monologue was screaming "JUST HIP FIRE IT YOU'RE SHOOTING LIKE 3 YARDS". Words cannot describe my relief when he finally did
1:40 - I did that to an SP one night when he unexpectedly stepped into the high bay area and started to pull his weapon up. It was purely instinct reaction to not let him do that. (I did not expect an armed person walking in with a long gun, I was expecting the pizza person.) The next few minutes (probably seconds) were intense and felt like hours. In the end, everyone agreed to forget it.
4:54 - It would have been better with the camera on the other side of you so we could see how much the stock kicks back in recoil. Of course, we know Paul has biceps like Arnold's legs (thus the bulky jacket always) so it probably doesn't kick back at all.
6:38 - Spoke too soon
Thanks for an as-always excellent video.
I believe the over the shoulder method should only be used for one shot. Great video. The shock wave is my favorite LARPing firearm. I use mine solely for fun. Great range toy.
I love my mossberg 500, it is a great shotgun, but useless for home defense for me, for one reason: I have a 28 inch barrel lol. Great for hunting and shooting clays though. Really tight pattern.
I feel ya. When I was poor just getting on my own a few years back my home defense setup was a mosin because that was all I had. Not proud of it but I would have used if I had to. Thank God that never happened.
You can buy a 20 inch barrel. When I got my mossberg back in the early 90's, it came with both a 20 & 28 inch barrel.
I use the low ready technique, and a 20 gauge instead of the 12 gauge. I seen your video on the 2 shotguns, and I believe for me, the 20 gauge will be just fine.
The 20 gauge will be just fine, idk why people underestimate it so much. I only use a 12 gauge because my 20 gauge has a 28" barrel.
@@therealmccoy9948 People underestimate even .410 Bore shotguns, and a slug from a typical length one will give you ballistics vaguely comparable to a .41 Magnum revolver, not the powerhouse of its bigger brethren, but I sure as hell would feel confident with a loaded one if I heard a bump in the night.
I can't think of any shotgun in common use which wouldn't be viable for defending yourself assuming suitable ammunition. It'd have to be one of those little .22 caliber rimfire 'ratshot' cartridges or something.
Would definitely be interested in Paul trying out the cheek weld technique with firearms like the Shockwave.
I’ve got a TAC-13 with a pistol brace- It can be carrier loaded, so it’s a 5+2 SBS without the paperwork. If you like a scattergun for home defense, I don’t see good reason for the longer barrel.
Clint Smith has a pretty good presentation on using a shockwave effectively.
NOTICE: Soda bottles and paper targets were harmed in the making of this educational video.
8:13 is golden advice and what I do.
I was waiting for Paul to mention that a semi-automatic shotgun may work much more efficiently for the over-the-shoulder technique.
Inertia driven semi won't like the weaker grip.
@@warrenharrison9490 True that.
I'd like to see a presentation on over the shoulder boulder holders for ho defense.
👍👍👍👍👍
A middle eastern sling.
The double-barrel slingshot…
You brought up "cramped spaces" regarding the shockwave. These are extremely popular with the motor coach owners
and probably a great choice for that application.
lmao "motor coach" ?
@@JohnDoe-gq6yg Yes Very high line multi million dollar motor coaches. Marathon Motor coaches specifically
@@megarouge61 lol i deadass thought you were just fucking around and meant cars 😂 then i googled motor coach. learn something new everyday i guess.
@@JohnDoe-gq6yg Yeah they're motorhomes, but I have been working on them for 30+ years and the terminology sticks in your head. I guess it's a way for people who buy drivable houses to feel a little better about dropping 2+ million on one. lol Good shooting to you!
Good & valid comments. I deployed
with a shotgun on many occasions.
It proved to be a very effective weapon. I utilized all the techniques
you suggested, except for the over
the shoulder technique. Commenting on your choice of
shotgun (Mossberg pump). My
boss & I trained SOTG of the USMC
with a 590 Mossberg. I had used
the 870, model 34, & the Benelli
Entry Model. After training the Marines with their Mossberg S/G
I was impressed by the ruggedness
of the 590. I do like your technique of deployment with the shotgun under the armpit. Thank you for
the video!👍😊🇺🇸✝️
FYI I trained with the British Army using the SLR or FAL (US) - In the confined spaces of Fighting In Built Up Areas, we often carried this long rifle with the butt outside the crook of our elbow - very similar to the over the shoulder technique you demonstrated - its great for confined spaces and for getting out of vehicles. In theory, you can fire like this but we were always taught to bring the rifle to the shoulder from this position - a fraction of a second - accuracy was incredibly important with the 7.62 full metal jacket bullet which could easily punch through walls of heavily built up areas. Love your channel btw - a huge fan.
I believe OG's Danger Show did a video on this as well. Like everything else, practice makes perfect
That's who Paul was referring to.
Before you mentioned the guy advocating for this, and dismissing the Shockwave, I was thinking “so, you’re basically turning your shotgun into a Shockwave?”
Perhaps a folding stock would be a better option?
That would likely make it a short-barrel shotgun (depending on the model; many have barrels under 18”) and thus an NFA item.
As always I love Paul's demonstrations. I personally use a Kel-tec KS-7 for home defense. It's about the same length as the Mossberg shockwave, an 18.5 inch barrel, 7+1 capacity with 2.75" rounds, and the fiber optic sight really helps in low light situations. After mounting a flashlight to it I really can't think of a better home defense gun for my small apartment.
KS7 is underrated in that aspect. You get a full sized pump action shotgun in terms of effectiveness while condensed into a package that is equivalent to the size of a sawed off pump action shotgun
Whacking my ejector rod and watching Paul Harrell videos.
Don’t be the judge.
I was cleaning it and it went off in my hand.
Great video Paul. Low ready looks like the winner for the shotgun.
Other points to consider with low ready vs over the shoulder. Consider a semi-automatic Shotgun and a reflex sight for faster target acquisition, nullifying the need to work an action, add in a pistol grip and controlling recoil is easier to manage. All things a Saiga-12 or Bernelli can come out of the box with. Choice is yours shooter on what you feel comfortable with.
I’ve seen this technique called “short stocking” I read that it was used by marines early in the GWOT doing door to door fighting with 20” AR’s
They used M16s. Using AR and M16 interchangeably makes you part of the problem.
20” barrels and no adjustable stocks
I would think that the over-the-shoulder technique would also have a substantially greater impact on temporary hearing loss by placing the percussion closest to the side of the shooter's your head.
Bull pup shooters must all be deaf then
@@rollastudent more that in home defense scenarios no one's gonna have the time or chance to put hearing equipment on
Thank you Mr. Harrell. I appreciate the throw away and what you separate fact from fiction, opinion from reality. Thank You again Sir.
The 590 Shockwave works really well with mini shotgun shells. You can get a plastic magazine follower so the shells handle well and you gain a large capacity. Very good for home defense, snowmobiles etc.