Contraception and Pornography Are Two Aspects of the Same Problem | Derek Fiedler & Jonathan Pageau
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- Опубликовано: 26 апр 2021
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Symbolism & Sexuality | Jonathan Pageau | Dialogues with Derek podcast s1e2: • Symbolism & Sexuality ...
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For the first three minutes of the video I thought they were sitting side-by-side in the same living room lol
Same!!! I’m almost finished and still trying to find the line between both rooms 😂
@@SavannahSedai
It’s the bookshelf in the middle
"Christianity is non-dualistic...at some point the enemy and all the strange things must be integrated." I didn't catch how profound Jonathan's insight was until watching the clip. Thanks for posting.
It's baked into our theology. God is Trinity. He is both *Unity* and *Multiplicity* . No more 1 than 3 and no more 3 than 1, the perfect (really supra-perfect) communion of Love ("perichoresis" in Greek, "mutual indwelling" or "interpenetration"). God in His abundant love wished to have more children so that His Grace, Power, and Eternity can be spread across to others. And so He created this universe out of nothing and He declared everything to be "good" repeatedly. He loved us so much that He modeled us after the image of His Son, Whom the Father and the Spirit Love like no other and Who took upon Himself the "Sin of the World", the sacrificial Lamb. The One Through Whom all things were made will resolve and absorb all the disfunction brought about by His creatures so that they too can participate in this perichoresis, this Cosmic Liturgy of Love.
@@panokostouros7609 doesn't that sort of imply the inevitable restoration of all people to God (that it happens eother in this life for believers amd at some point in the next for everyone else) along with the inevitable restoration of the rest of the cosmos when all is said and done?
I am in my mid 30s and I am seeing a concerning increase in the amount of my friends/family/acquaintances who are treating their pets as children.
The term "fur baby" has always brought up red flags in my mind. Thank you for so eloquently expressing why this phenomena truly is a symptom of our times.
It can't be a coincidence that all the "fur parents" in my life are either in deteriorating marriages, divorced, or of the mindset that "having children is immoral in an overpopulated world".
It truly is a symptom of our broken society that has attempted to remove responsibility from pleasure. Thank you for having this great conversation.
Good ol fashioned psychological displacement
Freud is laughing
It IS an overpopulated world. Hence the term that God likes: Culling. God LOVEs to Cull Humans!!!!
@@stewiepid4385 okay Jonah
@@stewiepid4385 except he doesn't, and no, the world is not overpopulated. Massive urban cities are stuffed and overpopulated, and whether through incompetance, corruption and greed, or both, we don't do a good job managing and allocating resources to make sire everyone has their baseline needs met. (While I'm not advocating socialistic wealth redistribution, it seems very clear that undeveloped countries are exploited for their resources amd are kept suppressed for purposes of control, that developed nations are even exploited for their technology, wealth and resources in ways that don't actually help local populations either, and that those in power maintain a corporatist rather than capitalist system of exploitation of control that exploits the Planet and everyone on it for the benefit of the 0.0001%, and that many of the world's material problems would be much less serious if information, technology, and resources weren't controlled and exploited and countries and communitoes were free to take care of theor own people first and foremost)
It’s really frustrating how many people are just not having children for ultimately selfish reasons. We’re screwing ourselves and all I see is apathy.
"The experience of holding your child will completely transform you. The joys are beyond description." Amen.
Watching my daughter crown, the nurses squealing with excitement, my beautiful wife pouring out her heart - I'll never forget. Made me into a real man that day.
The enemy has to be absorbed at one point. There have to be reconciliation for the world to find its resolution.
- I really appreciate this statement. Thanks alot
Boom. I feel like I heard a cannon shot, echoing from humanae vitae.
Things like that are another reason I became Western Orthodox instead of joining the Sedavacantists, because it makes more sense to say the Popes are in general error since the schism but still occasionally throw out an Orthodox nugget, like Humanae Vitae or Rerum Novarum, than to label all popes since 1958 as “Secret Freemasons”, since I doubt one would have written THAT. Bugnini? Sure, HE was a mason and a Commie, but not the Popes he bamboozled with his Scheming Schema.
Pope St Paul VI was prophetic when he wrote Humanae Vitae.
@@eldermillennial8330 Rerum Novarum and Humanae Vitae are super dope
Well done Lisa! Great clip!
Wow. This one cut deep. Thank you gentlemen.
Great video guys
About that reintegration, I think Cobra Kai is a great example. The integration of the aggressiveness of the old with the softness of the new. It’s a series about the union of the old and new to fight against the eternal symbol of the snake. All of this within an inversion of the values from the original Karate Kid movie, a double inversion as you’ve mentioned before. You’ve got to watch it man.
The TV show Seinfeld even covered this in an episode once. George Costanza abstains from sex for a certain amount of time, and he begins to learn really high-level scientific concepts, then as soon as he engages in sex again he instantly becomes the old George we know throughout the show. The clowns unwittingly revealing the truth once again…
sex is a passion and the one that keeps us very blind to the spiritual realities, all the church fathers are clear on this which is why virtually all married saints abstained
@nikosantikythera2422 Especially, in a 22 minute 90’s sitcom.
"their whole life becomes a joke..."
I like that there is such a thing as straight talk, Mr Pageau, but you also have to ease up on people. As well as offering truths to steer by, religion is mercy, graciousness, and politeness.
After many many months, good sir, this has been my only complaint.
Godspeed
Why polite?
Brilliant
God bless you, change is here!
This super deep and awesome.
The dog thing is going to make some people mad, lol. Good points though
The truth!!! Thank you 💕 amen 🙏
Jonathan being a straight up savage! Love it. "It's not justifying it, but it's about seeing that God is going to win in the end" Brilliantly put...people too often think that reality is synonymous with justification, and I even tend to do this still. Everything in this clip is just too good tho. Really nailed it here, Jonathan
Contraception is telling a lie. It's saying, 'I give you everything of myself', while your actions say, 'except this.' If sex is communication of a very deep kind, then contraception is a very deep lie.
This is a part of Pope John Paul II's Theology of the Body.
But if sex is an act of consumption, contraception is a actually truthful.
@@fuiscklam4087 True, but sex is an act of consumption only when devoid of love. Hence, contraception in a relationship of love within marriage is not only unnecessary, but it might actually be a sign that there is not enough love inside this relationship.
@@Hoi4o First you assume that sex is within marriage, which is not the case in most occasions. Second you assume that there is a love within marriage, which again is not the case in most situations. Third, even within loving marriage there is such thing as family planning, since lot of marriages fall apart due to economic problems, not small part due to excess of children.
God bless you, God bless you
The condom is anti-circumcising. Wow.
Jonathan what do you think of the Eritrean Orthodox Tewahdo Christianity?
Amen!!!!
Insightful. By nature of the inverted hierarchy, it is apt for self-destruction. The lowliest creatures lack the courage of their convictions, and they are the Sméagol's of this world. They are the liberal arts professors who incite others to do violence on their behalf. But by virtue of their position, they sew the seeds of hierarchical self-correction. We respect Genghis Khan, for he had courage to meet his malice. They lack that. But while the Khans may take positions by force, they must sneak upon that which is left in the wake of the Khans. But necessarily, they lack the power to maintain these positions. Genghis might be bad, but his power is legitimate. They are bad, and they lack power. And they preach by the sword, but lack the prowess to defend themselves against their own rule.
Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. In Genghis' case, threats of violence would do little. He embraces death, and is convicted in it. But he leaves the gate open to those who lack the mettle of such conviction. And the revolution occurs when those who speak of violent revolt, and whisper evils into the ears of the innocent, will be torn from their positions. As if Gollum were to seat himself on the throne of Gondor, he wouldn't be thrown from the tower of Minas Tirith. They write their fate through their own misdeeds. Call it irony. I call it justice. Like the Russian bomb-strapped dogs who turned on their masters' tanks in WWII, karma's a bitch.
i wait for series about Orthodoxy...
Catholic Church is right about everything
We will find out on the Day of Judgement
"And on the last day we will see each other face to face.
Do wait and see"
-Martyrs of Songkhon
Thai Roman Catholic Martyrs
1940
...even the child abuse?
Our seed represents our drive, and our passions are the source of that drive.
Its something that I've realized for a while, but that video by Penguinz0 (Critikal) called "Skynut" seems to ebody this concept entirely. Yet, I doubt critikal realized the message he was sending.
Got a planned Parenthood advert before this video 🤦🏻♂️
Basedry.
What does "incubine and sucubine" mean?
Demonic spirit that drain the sexual essence of humans through lust.
Why is he glowing
💯👍
so, using condoms is a sin? also, whats the diference between artificial and natural contraception?
@Boethius Your last point is very well made.
Contraception is an intrinsic evil because it separates the unitive and the generative aspects of the conjugal union. Similarly, pornography and masturbation are intrinsically evil because they are neither unitive nor generative.
If a married couple wants to make love in a licit manner they must be open to new life. Natural contraction is also known as natural family planning, and it is sex during the times of a woman’s cycle when she will not conceive, but the conjugal act must be open to the possibility of procreation.
@@philiphales2109 so well said sir. Its very simple yet very difficult for most to do because of our sex-on-demand-without-consequences indoctrination
It's just amazing to hear Jonathan explaining this understanding of contraception, I was married in 1977 and for a catholic couple this was a hot topic but because, not to use contraception was so counter-cultural at the time it ended up being forgotten about. It is really a great sham the Catholic Church was unable to explain its opposition to birth control.
What are you talking about the Catholic Church is the most anti contraception and birth control than any other denomination. Contraception of any kind is a mortal sin to them. They defined it in the 1930s admist the sexual revolution of the roaring 20s. In fact the Orthodox Church allows non-abortifacient contraceptives such as condoms.
"How boned are you: The video"
a Tleilaxu who thought he was a Christ follower
My wife and I disagree on this (I have come to agree with Jonathan and others on this) and I can't change her mind. It's a bad situation to be in.
With such an unattainable ideal of societal circumstance it’s no wonder you’re disheartened by reality
Pornographic content wouldn't thrive if young men were able to find viable partnership with willing young women.
Since the 60's sexual liberation, female hypergamy is unrestrained from traditional social norms and overflows outside the local boundaries of a community. Creating the 80/20 rule.
Not to mention women's inclusion into labor force so to maximize production and lower wages. It helped boaster hypergamy to overdrive.
There lies the heart of the issue.
Go look at art from around the world. Men have been making pictures and statues of naked women and fornication for as long as we've made art. Porn isn't a recent thing, can't be with prostitution being the oldest job in the word.
@@crystalross2284 you miss the point. I'm not arguing about lust being a recent issue here. The point is when a society let his women loose then they won't settle with men or they'll become unstable, then said men will turn to porn to compensate the void of having no female partnership.
Apparently, Millennials are having less sex than during the Victorian era. That should ring a bell.
@@freezia0 Less sex means less need for an abortion, so ultimately that works out for unmarried millennial. Women are not dogs to be kept on a leash. At it completely ignores the fact that more men aren't wanting to get married either. Most young adults put a college education first and marry once they have settled down. My dad took ten years to marry my stepmom. Go flip through Tinder or another dating app. Men aren't looking for wives and most women have dated enough by the time they in their thirties that they gave up. Go watch a mgtow video, most divorced men are telling men to not get married, don't date any woman under 27 if they're generous, and that women in their thirties and older are undesirables hag. The problem isn't just women need to stay home and be good little wifies. It's now in a system where we put education first so marriage gets pushed back, men get comfortable with all the options, women get used to men who never settle down, and once they have a career women being told they're old sluts for doing what needs to be done to pay the bills. Porn in culture is just a red flag, a symptom of a bigger more complex problem.
@@crystalross2284 Why does the idea of partnership in your mind immediately jump to "stay at home and be good little wifies"? Unfortunately, women's reproductive health is a major biological asset in partnership. Thats why some men desire the kind of younger partners youre talking about. Women fought hard to have access to the same life men have. Now they have more freedom to pursue that, but it comes at a cost. Theres no such thing as a free lunch, and you cant have your cake and eat it too. Want to live like a man until you're 27 and then wonder why you aren't viewed as desirably as a women when you emerge from that experience? Your own speech about women is self-loathing, you have disdain for a woman who wants to be a stay at home mother. We have to move past fighting as women vs men. The old way was not working for women, for obvious reasons. You were treated like sh*t and made to be someone's property/object. Harmonious partnership between two strong willed people is a difficult but worthwhile thing to achieve, as it should be
@@nickmatthews7600 @Nick Matthews First, what seems like a jump to stay at home wives is the repeated conservative rhetoric when talking about women and being mothers. If a woman's reproduction abilities are so important then men need to marry women earlier. Because it's not a partnership to be with a woman and expect children from her without asking for her hand. It's to much risk for the woman and it's unfair to the children. Baby Mama is the default derogatory term for women who have children outside of marriage and the guy who knocked her up is usually with a single childless woman because it's easier than the responsibilities of raising a kid. I don't have any loathing for stay at home mothers. What I loath is that men always throw it in our faces that we want as you said 'to have the cake and eat it too'. Like staying at home to be a wife and mother is an option while we're younger. Younger men aren't looking for wives. So women go to school to get jobs and provide for themselves. Then they get a job and the men around them either aren't ready to settle down or are looking for younger women. Then you have a group of women who choose a career because none of the men they dated wanted to settle down and now they're old and undesirable because the went and got a career in the meantime. And most of the women who are married don't get to stay home with the kids anymore. Most men are looking for a woman who had a job and you almost can't get a job at McDonalds without some sort of degree anymore. So it's not women who want their cake and to eat it too. It's men. Men have extremely high expectations towards women. Be young, be attractive, have money, have a job, have my kids, take care of the house(because men in America still don't for half of the chores), be a good hostess for parties, tak care of my family and put them before your own, and the rest vary depending on culture and religion. In the meantime, men don't have to more either to get this mythical creature we call the modern woman. In fact, you chaifed at the implication of marriage instead of a 'partnership'. Modern men want more for less and then blame women for daring to age while reaching for those standards. My grandparents' generation all got married in their teens. I think my great aunt was seventeen when she married. My mom's generation varies. My Aunt got married in college. My step mom dated my dad for ten years before marrying her. My generation, my cousin got married straight from high school but her husband is taking over the family farm. So she'll be a stay at home wife in name only, she'll be a farmer. My sister married before she turned thirty but she still has to work with three kids at home. I know plenty of girls who are dating but with Tinder and a variety of options. There is no real push for men to commit with the constant renewal of young women coming into adulthood.
Human beings sure have a great imagination! Dosent go with their biology very well!
If you use contraception, you will go to hell. It’s the sin of Onan.
I kinda see where you guys are going with this ... but you're making sweeping statements that verge on arrogance. Not all couples can have children, so getting a dog, or a pet, may be a a form of God's grace. One of His many mercies. You make that seem pathetic. We are not all on your higher levels of the hierarchy, but we are trying to do the best we can.
If he qualify everything he says the video would be 14 hrs not 14 minutes
@@ironmonkey1512 Yep ... words are powerful aint they?
I think he made it very clear that he was referring to couples who would rather have a pet than a child even if they have the means to develop a family.
Jonathan wasn’t talking about couples suffering from fertility issues, he was talking about couples who could have children but willing choose not to. Having a pet isn’t problematic, becoming a “pet parent” is.
Maybe adopt a kid instead of a dog.... no one says you can't have a dog , but children bring responsibility like no dog can, plus there are so many kids left by themselves that could be saved from a life of misery .
Abstract nonsense. Regressive. Better to integrate and evolve as the divine - I.e. conscious love evolves in depth and complexity. These guys want to go backwards as they cling to monotheistic traditions, which had their time but are inherently limited and of their time.
"Regressive"
That implies that the world today is positive progress. Depression, nihilism, meaninglessness, broken families, murder of unborn children en masse, societal destabilization and atomization.
That is not progress, the further we strayed from these 'silly old monotheistic traditions', the more we regress spiritually and psychologically, and you know this 'modern' and 'progressive' society is pure poison because people are depressed, mentally ill, and suicidal DESPITE unprecedented technology, entertainment, and the highest materialistic quality of life in all of human history. Despite that, the degenerate progressive civilization numbs those pleasures and sucks all meaning and fullfilment out of life, it's utterly and completely spiritually bankrupt.
If you see the state of young men and families in the western world as progress, than you are just a brainwash bitter atheist or damned pagan.