The COARSE GRIT FALLACY - The Biggest Beginner Knife Sharpening Mistake
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- Опубликовано: 11 апр 2024
- The COARSE GRIT FALLACY, or the myth that you shouldn't use a coarse grit when you are learning to sharpen, is the biggest beginner knife sharpening mistake.
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well said! it blows me away how many people on the internet will sharpen a knife and start at 600 or 1000 grit and recommend that, the other day i seen someone say you want a 1k and a 3k and 6k stones which in reality should be finishing stones if anything
Absolutely made the mistake to buy me a much to fine stone for years. Now got me the Sharpal as recommended. Works really good in combination. Of course you want a medium stone but it works very good. But, i fucking ruined my Adventurecraft with it. Maybe due to the fact it came with a uncorrect grind. Corrected the grind, but never got it really sharp again. Dot know if itś the blade geometry or whatever. But I canˋt fkn handle the blade. The low profile makes it difficult to keep the angle, okay. But I am not really new to sharpening. Inthink I can hold an angle okaish. At least all the other knives shave with ease. And now 1/10 of the blade is gone and I dońt even know if the geometrie is anywhere near to even get it sharp. I can definitly say, a coarse diamont stone will eat a blade if you get frustrated. 😂😂😂😢
He is a very talented teacher.
@@panganaranga well you are going to remove the same amount of material in most cases regardless the stone you are using, a coarse one makes it remove faster so you dont have to spend so much time, which also will help you get better edges as you dont need to spend so much time on the stone getting fatigued or frustrated
This probably comes from japanese knives enthousiasts who are used to working with extremely thin edges, which grinds fast especially on "carbon steels", what do you think ?
@@NeevesKnives yeah man, nothing new, since the new stone it takes me 2 minutes for a knife to get it crisp. But this one kicks my ass. All I can say is that I feel it takes more time on the strop to get the burr off. Thats all the difference I might feel with the steel. I think itˋs more the fact the geo has left the chat and the low profile makes it too hard to keep an angle. I know, you can cut yourself on an 90 degree edge, did many times. But it has to be sharp.
Before i got my first sharpening stone i never believed one can actually make a knife totally dull on a sharpening stone. Yes - we can. 🎉
Where there’s a will there’s a way! I managed to completely dull a number of knives while learning to sharpen. When I finally cut myself with a kitchen knife I’d sharpened the day before my reaction was, “yes! Finally! It’s actually sharp!”
When I first started sharpening my knives myself, every now and again I would mess up so badly, the knife would be less sharp after the sharpening than it was before.
Shit happens.
@@joshcarter-com I assume then you realized "oh wait im bleeding
Practice makes PERMANENT. Bad practice makes bad performance. One of the most memorable things a coach ever told me.
Oh that's pretty good
That's how I say it as well.
Totally agree with that!💚🤘
Only perfect practice makes perfect - Lee Trevino
Ignore the haters and keep on going. You're making by far the highest quality content on these subjects that has ever graced the youtubes. By far.
Who's hating?
I've been sharpening knives for decades at this point. And it's always good to hear new perspectives. This channel has helped me, and my knives will all comfortably shave hair. I'd say he's pretty good.
I wish RUclips had a double or triple thumbs up icon. Outstanding. Thank you.
based on one of your past videos, getting a $1.50 knife from the dollar store might be the perfect way to get practice before you start grinding away on your new Spyderco. I had the exact failure that you described 50 years ago when I bought a black Arkansas stone, the holy grail of stones back then, and proceeded to still have a dull knife after working that damn thing for hours! I never did actually figure out what I did wrong, but this video explains it well.
Haha I made the same mistake about 40 years ago as a Boy Scout. I couldn’t figure out why I was never making any progress!
Lord yes. I got turned onto diamond stones about 10 years ago, and it is so much better than working with those oh so good Arkansas stones. Don't get me wrong, I love my Arkansas, and I can do some serious damage with a strop. But a big, heavy grit stone is where it's at. Spyderco and Buck are fine from the factory, but the last few Case knives I got needed some work. Disappointing, actually.
I wish I had done that. The first knife I sharpened was the knife on a Leatheman tool and I turned it into a toothpick. Now I have nice pocket knives so it doesn't matter that I ruined the Leatherman's blade but I still wish I hadn't.
@PhilippeCarphin I was really lucky. My Uncle is a bit of a whiz when it comes to bladed edges of any kind. And he talked me into buying a cheap Taiwanese Gerber to practice on. I still have that thing bless its heart. Did the same thing you did!
I love that you said perfect practice makes perfect. That's the damn truth, not this practice makes perfect fallacy.
Another version I've heard is "practice makes permanent", which implies that not only is bad practice unhelpful, it is actively harming your ability to learn to do it right.
The best knife sharpening tips out there!
It took me years to learn this simple fact. Saw too many videos showing starting on 1000 or 2000 grit stones and wasting precious time. I will recommend this video to anyone wanting to learn the easy way to sharpen knives.
You're single handedly responsible for sharpal selling out of their 162n dual diamond plate lol. Just got my own finally, it's leagues beyond the Smiths diamond plates I got for 12 dollars at big R
That is the truth! After Alex's "unicorn" video, I had a heck of a time getting my hands on a Sharpal 162N.
When I saw his video I immediately thought. "Get one now, they'll be sold out for years."
He should send a warning to these companies so they can ramp up production:)
Guys that worry about scratching a knife are the same guys that drive mall crawlers
“Perfect practice makes perfect.” One of my favorite quotes of all time! Applies to so many things in life
So very true, playing guitar, target shooting and sharpening knives, its all about learning discipline and growing your own personal skills.
my favorite quote is " dont dip your pen in company ink"
terrible advice if you are already perfectionist though. just practice with best accuracy you have, but dont stress out if your best isnt very good yet
@@victorfranca17 funny! My now wife and kids are glad I didn’t follow that one
@@mnzrk you are wrong sir, perfectionists already live this quote every day!
i got sharpal cuz of your video, i am applying all lessons ive learned from you - was easy after applying good practice and avoiding mistakes. so i do use coarse to bring edge and after that just 1000 to keep it maintained. Thanks for all u do for us.
I'm waiting for the Sharpal to go back in stock! If it takes too long I may go with the Shapton and/or S SATC ones... but I'm hopeful so far haha
Edit: Woah, it IS in stock, just not from the link he has in the description...
I got the same thing from a few videos back. I was hoping it was a stone he was selling or it went to his store. I got the stone and I’m working on making my light saber.
@@jordanlewandowskii I would advise against buying the Sharpal double sided diamond stone. That stone doesn't seem to be electroplated but the the diamond layer somehow seems to be glued to the plate, which explains why Alex thinks it's the "perfect" double sided stone with no cross contamination. If you look at reviews you can see many people reporting that stone bubbles or straight off peels, which is unacceptable for a $70 stone.
@@EternalKing06 -- I'm not sure I'd trust random Amazon reviewers over Alex. One of these things is a known quantity with regard to their knowledge and experience -- the other isn't.
That said, I bought one of these Sharpal stones. I already had a cheapo £30 Chinese diamond stone that I use primarily for flattening whetstones. but I watched a handful of other RUclips reviews of the Sharpal and those reviewers were very impressed. See the reviews from Fire Creek Forge or A Dose of Drew. Like Alex, they were a known quantity. Or you might want to read some of the comments here from other people who have bought the Sharpal on Alex's recommendation. They tend to be extremely satisfied customers.
I sent the first stone back because there were some small chips on the edge of the plate on the fine side. I don't expect to see THAT on a £60 diamond stone, so I sent it back, got a refund, ordered a replacement. Replacement had exactly the same chips -- only more of them. They're tiny -- it looks like the plate has been held in some sort of device and the electroplating hasn't really taken there. I kept this second one, because I just wanted to see how the thing worked. The chips don't affect the functioning of the stone, but even so, it says something about the quality control of the company producing them.
That said, the Sharpal is astonishingly good at what it's supposed to do. I'm using mine primarily to sharpen kitchen knives, so there aren't any supersteels involved, but both sides appear grit consistent with my Shaptons and produce a new apex and a burr in the wink of an eye. I also used it to reprofile a Scandi that was screwed up. You have to remove a hell of a lot of metal to reprofile a Scandi, but this did it in no time at all. Likewise with thinning a chinese cleaver. So I don't regret the purchase, but the two I bought weren't without their flaws.
The other thing I'd say is -- the stone has a two year warranty, so if it does peel -- it's likely to do so within that time and you can get a replacement. One thing I did notice from the Amazon comments is that they seem to be pretty solid when it comes to fulfilling warranty claims. If that hadn't been the case, I'd have sent the second stone back as well.
@@EternalKing06so what would you buy instead?
Yep, agree 100%. As an aside, I just got one of those Sharpal diamond stones... and it's everything you said it is. Whether it will last as long as my worn-out DMT stone remains to be seen, but I've already done a lot of badly worn chisels with it (for a friend), and it's quicker and nicer than anything I've used before. So thanks for that.
Sure. For a friend .
@@williammartin2593 Hehe. He's a builder, and brings his chisels to me every few months.
I think another mistake a beginner could easily make is not using enough pressure and then wondering why their knives aren't getting that sharp. I did that for years and just thought my sharpener was bad or I was bad at using it. Eventually I got another sharpener and the same thing was happening so I finally realized I was doing something wrong and went to learn from your videos. I found where you mentioned 3-5lbs of pressure and I immediately knew that was my issue. I was probably only using 1lb before at most.
GLAD YOU'RE BETTER, GOOD JOB
Had no idea you juggled too.
I like the change in content due to what's going on. Hope you're feeling better.
I'd like to see how you store all the various stones/diamond plates when you're not using them. You have got to have a bunch of them.
You are right, not using a low grit stone is one of the biggest fallacies around.
haha, my old football coach used to say that. "Practice makes Permanent, only Perfect Practice makes Perfect!"
Wish all youtubers had your integrity. Love you bro.
When my son and his friends were starring to get interested in knife sharpening i got them a cheap diamond stone, and a couple $5 knives from walmart. Little bit easier to sharpen steel with a quick cutting stone lets the process go a lot smoother.
I agree. My thought is that some of these fine stones don't cut quickly enough and a person will give up before they see results. And that's frustrating. Corse stones offer instant feedback and I hate waiting
When I first learned to sharpen knives by hand years and years ago, I was lucky that I started practicing on a cheap, beat up, really coarse oil stone that was left in the kitchen cupboard and rarely used until I got a hold of it.
I did learn how to bring an edge back to a knife much quicker than if I had first started learning with medium and fine water stones or such (I never knew those existed until after like a couple of months of practice on the good oil stone).
Thank you for the best knife sharpening content RUclips. I have been practicing sharpening for about 5 years. I have gone through so many mistakes and tried so many different methods of sharpening. Only after I started watching you did I start actually doing it right. But I still seem to be hitting these brick walls at times and it does get very frustrating. But I am not going to give up, I really want to perfect this craft
Well its good to hear you are making progress! Remember no one ever perfects it. Im always learning and practicing too👍
Looks like your health is better! Keep at it bruh!
Two very helpful things I have found when sharpening are a magic marker and a magnifying glass, jeweler's loupe (in the 10× range), or ideally a low power (~30×) binocular microscope. It gives such a better idea of where the contact area is and how close to forming an apex you are if you makr the bevel area and inspect it regularly while sharpening. It even helps to determine proper angle when using guided systems.
bought a small $10 gerber knife to sacrifice in the name of science.
after hours of trying, i got... nowhere. I'm not discouraged, i just changed my expectations since i know that this is a skill that is developed, not a fact that you can just memorize. it takes time and you've given me the reassurance that i need to persist on this endeavor.
I never thought I'd see someone juggle sharp knives in a knife sharpening video
Absolutely great advice thanks for sharing brother!!
great video as always. looks like you are doing better, glad to see it
Awesome! Thank you for that emphasis and encouragement.
Love the juggling analogy! You're such a great source of info 😊👍
Glad you are better & posting videos again. You put out the best sharpening content !
I still pull out my little plastic angle guides to check myself
No. Now I expect everyone to juggle in their knife sharpening videos. Thanks for your tips.
This was a very good video and I am so glad that I got to see it. Thanks
Outstanding advice.
This internet wisdom is why people think super steels are hard to sharpen. You and NeevesKnives are doing a service educating the community.
I'm a knife sharpening kind of guy and I agree wholeheartedly. Bottom line is get a burr baby, get a burr. My favorite burr getter is a Worksharp. You just have to follow the directions so you don't round the tip. Then I use a Dimond steel to touch it up until it is not effective any more. Then it's back to the Worksharp for me.
Thanks again Alex. Hope you’re feeling better.
You have explained this well.
Another great video. Thanks for keeping the information concise but extremely useful and relatable.
Our football coach said something similar: "Practice makes permanent. Practice perfectly to be perfect."
I've also heard practice described this way: Practice makes permanent. If your practice is sloppy, then your performance will be sloppy. If your practice is accurate, then your performance will be accurate.
Definitely something I've taught myself the hard way over the years. I think like almost everyone else, started with too fine of a stone. Wasn't until I just said "screw it" and started grinding on a coarse DMT that everything started to click and I could see and feel very easily what the bevel was doing. Just don't go too far the other way and get overconfident in your skills too quickly initially. The heel and the tip of the blade are the hardest areas so I would recommend keeping that in mind
Excellent advice!
You are the best knife sharpening instructor. I have followed many others and all of them sharpen knives like robots. Never tell you the key guideline to getting a sharp knife.
Thank you.
Excellent information and great presentation. Be well.
Great video, even better advice
Good stuff Dude. Well done. Thanks.
You never disappoint me with the facts. Simple and true.
This makes a lot of sense. Thanks!
You are a very good teacher Sir. Keep at this type of videos!
Great advice. Wish I had known this when I first learned 👍
Genius my friend, you're getting better all the time. Simply honest. 👏🏼
We are great fans of your videos from India. No long intros, no ads, no crazy talking for long, just the content, clear and crisp - your channel is how we want youtube to be.Thanks for all your hard work in making these videos.
Unfortunately, it's hard for us to source the diamond stones you always recommend, they are very expensive to import for us,
and the whetstones we get here are not of great quality as well.
It would be nice if you can research and make a video for us on sharpening knives using only sandpapers and strop.
The stones in the usa are cheaper than using sandpaper because you can use a stone many times. I can sharpen my cheap kitchen knives with the cheapest stone made. Diamond stones are nice. Unless you have a very hard steel, whetstones will do the job.
Definitely helps. Thanks
Hahaha, Great comparison! I love the humor! Perfect to jump from work to week-end mode!! Cheers!!
this and the 5 minute guide for newbies just reignited my desire to keep on learning! I had hard time with my cheap stones and didn't want to come back to them, but it seems that I just was not patient enough and got to the finer coarsness too soon
thank you!
Hi Alex, as usual, a message that's right on the money. I couldn't agree more. Thanks
Great video as always! Glad that you are feeling better and able to do videos again!! With your advice here I’m learning to sharpen free hand. Just got a DMT extra coarse stone yesterday! Can’t wait to try it out. Stay healthy Alex.
Helpful advice. I need to watch some of your tutorials again.
Excellent advice! I hope everything is well and you found out good news health wise.
Great video, hope you are doing better. Thanks for sharing.
You're Great teacher!
This is how the best teachers & master teach. Straight to the point / clear and well demonstrate
Yup, most of the job of sharpening is done on the arato. For decades I've tried to tell folks that it's a lot easier to maintain a perfect angle for ten strokes vs one hundred, it seems pretty obvious to me! Thanks for another great video. ⚔🔥👏
3:06 That juggling analogy is so spot on it's beyond genius!
And I'm bookmarking this video because I'm sure I can learn how to juggle if I play that section often enough on slow speed...
Hope all is well outdoors awesome video 🙌
Great video as always! 💪😎
Great video, Alex! I learned on a set of Norton oil stones. I tried to progress up through the grits way too quickly. Thankfully, I figured that out before giving up. I love your channel and content! Keep it coming.
I got this stone after your last video about it, I was able to reprofile the worn out edge on my Shun Ken Onion 8" Chef's knife in just a few minutes, it was insane.
Wise words again. He gives good stone info too!
I agree 100%! Great content!
Excellent!
You nail'd it
I did the same mistakes
Great content short and simple
Great video. Been following you for several years and have learned a lot from your teaching. Praying for you and your family.
Thanks man, so true!
All of your sharpening videos are very good! Watched them all many times and I have been sharpening for over 40 years. Your advice is always spot on.
Alex great content. Hope you’re recovering well.
Great video. Love the contrast of juggling vs sharpening. You had me cracking up when you were speed sharpening the knife for the comparison. Thanks for the great videos and god bless.
Amen to this. I very often recomend a 320-400 to start on its coarse enough to create a burr fairly quick but its still not like a 120-220 that you can actually mess things a bit up. Also start with a sharpie always a sharpie on the edge again always when new will tell you right away if you are a bit to low or high on the angle
You back again
Yeeesss 💪💪💪💪
Your videos have helped me for years on all my sharpening. I’ve finally got into free hand sharpening solely because of your videos. Thank you so much
Very good video!
Very good video, I can fully confirm everything. You can get a very sharp knife even on a 320 grit stone. Going to finer grits makes sense only after you have the knife paper cutting sharp on 320 and the purpose of finer grit is to make the edge last longer before re-sharpening is needed.
The Sharpal diamond stone you recommended in your other video makes getting a sharp edge easy. Especially for a beginner like me.
Glad to see you're doing okay, hoping for your quickest recovery. I love the thing about practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. I first heard this idea for driving on a racing circuit, if you continue to drive the same but just push harder you may see faster lap times but that doesn't mean you are getting the most out of it. You have to try different things and you have to stick with the new thing for a bit to understand it. If you aren't doing something correctly and you do it repeatedly you are forming the muscle memory for the wrong way. It can seem counterintuitive at times, you may do worse when you try a new way but you just need to get a feel for it initially and then with time the improvement comes. I love these teaching videos for sharpening, I only recently stopped using my fixed angle system to start getting better at free hand and your videos have been incredibly helpful. Thanks for everything you've done and the effort you're still putting in through what I'm sure is a tough time, that perseverance will reward you no matter what, you'll come out stronger and more resilient.
Nice, thanks man!
More than happy for all new videos. Man, you're really creative and, the same time, simple. And it's not easy to make things look simple and understandable, although we are not necessarily simple minded.
Another solid video
Thanks for the video. Nope, never thought I'd see some juggling and never expected a few chuckles either. Thanks again.
Yes! Very nice juggling!
Agree with you totally.
Another great vid !
Thank you
Thanks to your channel, my knives are sharper than ever before.
Very solid explanation & perfectly comprehensible! As always!
Love from Germany💚🤘
Great video and I hope you are felling much better
Great video!! This advice holds true with my Worksharp as well, and saves you so much frustration. I remember trying to sharpen knives as a kid, and using too fine a stone, and a Gerber steel, and having miserable results. In the last several years, I've refurbished a bunch of knives, and finally realized that a coarser belt, or coarser rouge, etc., is the vital first step that gets you to the point where the finer stuff works well.
Man, the importance of “perfect practice makes perfect” as a central correction to the practice makes perfect thing is so important.
I remember hearing it for the first time YEARS ago while training with some American special forces guys (intentionally ambiguous there), and I’ve been preaching to people around me ever sense.
Cheers