Norman, what would the world do without you? Thank you for all the hard work and passion you have invested into the subject. For me, and many others, you are the moral compass on the subject. Please do document the case discrepancies.
This series of 4 streams with Norman and Mouin is probably the most thorough, rational and sophisticated analysis of South Africa’s claim of genocide by Israel in the ICJ. Fantastic job Gentlemen!
I love Norman. He sports the grin of a heretic who knows he is right while burning in the bonfire of his own making. When you speak truth to power, after much time and effort, it becomes a power unto itself. He is the personification of the idea that the truth will always prevail, even after many many decades of demonization, professional ostracism, and the pure hatred some have for the truth.
I am a Jamaican and there is an incredibly respected Jamaican judge on the Court. I fear pressure will be placed on him to rule a certain way due to political pressure. I am so grateful to South Africa always a friend of Jamaica and for the wonderful interview here. I learn so much from Professor Finkelstein.
@@rackett8655 pressure directly from the United States which has its outposts of three letter agencies permanently stationed there and Jamaica has received security aid from Israel. Small amounts of people in Jamaica do care but unfortunately not enough to make a difference. Jamaica is also full of Evangelical Christians who believe this whole thing ushers in the antichrist?? and Jamaicans get nothing but mainstream US media. We once had a wonderful foreign policy but no more.
@@rackett8655 Zionist powers around the world my guy, I always thought conspiracies but nah, they are behind all the $$$ in the world. Even your phone records you 24/7, don’t you see how US politicians acting like puppets? They can threaten people with the smallest, things and we are all humans after all.
Finkelstein is absolutely right with his analogy about Malcolm Shaw, eloquently exposing his nauseating distorted morality in an 'ongoing' war crime and if the SA case loses, being an enabler of genocide. The irony is Malcolm Shaw teaches a course on human rights at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem each year, shame on him. Mouin Rabbani and Norman Finkelstein truly are the best of humanity. ❤🙏
Correct. Through all of this I keep thinking of all the people over the years (I am older, here) who bemoan what we did NOT do during the 30s and early 40s: yet, the official word in this US of Amnesia, is support for genocide and oppression.
Please please please do more of these. This brings so much hope and inspiration and encouragement to all of us. We need this to be strong, to do the best we can, wherever we can. Please do more of these. We need you. I need you, so I can do more, and be more effective to contribute what I can to free Palestine, so be human. ❤
Fantastic episode! Thank you, gents! Particulary liked Norman's powerful words about Malcolm Shaw and his réaction to thé Houthis gave me goosebumps! Great epilogue as well! PLEASE CLIP those segments! God bless
For as long as Dr.Finkelstein is speaking I am listening. I really need voices like yours to maintain my sanity lol. I was in DC today (yesterday now) and it was awesome.
I hate that we all meet during these times but also honored to have witnessed you two brilliant human beings. Gives me hope that the people and governments will take a middle path so we could focus on other important matters and improving life everywhere
Norman Finkelstein has dedicated most of his adult life to the Palestine conflict and has continued to speak the truth no matter what. His integrity is truly outstanding and inspiring, he is tremendously appreciated!!!
Very interesting interview. Thank you gentlemen. If the judges do indeed face threats, whether implicit or explicit, physical or fiscal, to themselves or to those who are nearest to them, and they rule in favor of the South African submission, they will understand what is like to be a Gazan or a Yemeni or a Syrian or, or, or...
Thank you Mouin and Norman - you are both excellent analysts and thoroughly decent people. Mouin is underrated or rather "under known". Not just his analyses, but his adamant commitment to rationality as his people are abused and murdered is really staggering. They are both some of the best that humanity has to offer. ❤
South Africa has a very strong bond with Palestinians. Ramallah is a sister city to Johannesburg I believe. Yasser Arafat was a personal friend of Mandela as a result of their joint struggle. Cuba and the Palestinians gave the ANC (the then resistance movement in SAfrica, which is now the ruling party)not just moral support, but also material support and were literally on the ground in South Africa with them. This is the reason for their fierce support of Gazans now.
With 9 other countries in BRICS+ behind SA, this is the global majority/multipolarity group's first salvo against the empire, may the force be with the axis of resistance
Thanks for this great series! I certainly hope you guys will do the series you spoke about taking apart Israel's ICJ brief. Very curious what their evidence is and what you two will make of it.
I love these conversations are made public for all of us to learn from. Hopefully, we'll take these points and continue the discussion in our own social circles.
So appreciate these conversations. I will be a regular listener to Mouin Rabbani’s podcast, a very erudite conversation oartner for the great Norm Finkelstein
Your point about reputation of the UN, its own institutions, and its own rapporteurs, was incredible. Hope that this too is taken into account by the judges.
Really appreciate Finkelstein highlighting Yemen's "solidarity of the wretched with the wretched" and bringing awareness to the blockade and bombing that devastated Yemen
Mr Finklestein, you are an absolute inspiration for me. For all the challenges you have faced and the the devotion of a huge part of your life to support of what is right, supporting the Palestinians. As a musicsian/producer/artist myself, We often don’t experience our success or legacy while we are alive. I believe in your lifetime you will actually get to see the fruits of your labour as a result of ur hardships and You will go down in history as a primary academic accurately documenting all of the crimes that Israel has committed and pray you get vindication in your lifetime for your legacy that will last throughout history as being on the right side of history. Bless you brother. You are true Martyr. May the greatest powers on the universe rain praise and love for ur mission. Soha. #soharadj #soha #ceasefire
I think the pressure on South Africa came from everywhere. As soon as I learned of the difference between the ICC cases and a genocide case at the ICJ my first thought was “South Africa must do this”, without knowing, given the depth and detail of the documentation and case they raised, that they were already working it up.
Whilst I hear (and share) the reservations of Finkelstein with respect to the independence and impartiality of each ICJ judge, there must come some point in certain cases where the raw facts and sheer weight of evidence almost galvanizes any ICJ judge into proper moral action over and above any duty felt to their home country domestic politics. Perhaps naively, I think that might be the situation here. We are talking about a gravely abhorrent ongoing genocide after all. The South African submissions concerning genocidal conduct, intent and that genocidal language is expressly Israeli State Policy was highly persuasive and compelling. And I don't think that the Israeli's did enough to rebut those matters with credible alternative facts that ICJ judges can rely on. Palestinians and the world might get some measure of real international justice here and at least get it on the formal record that Israel is indeed engaging in genocide. Let's hope that's the case.
Norman is not referring to these judges' national duties and mere politics but about direct pressure being exerted on them. Not a lot of people can withstand that kind of pressure. If your decision could lead to your government withholding your pension or otherwise choosing to punish you, not many would choose to pay that price. That's the reason Israel has been getting away with it from so long.
I have watched videos of Israelis complaining of the fact there is a Lebanese judge on the ICJ panel. They accidentally forgot to mention the president is a USA judge, you know, the country that Vetoed every single UN voting against Israel. 😘
Dr. Finkelstein, what a gentleman and a scholar. Humanity pleads that he will write another book documenting the current Israel/Palestinian situation, he has this unique knowledge. This atrocity against Palestinians must be documented, the future generations need to know the truth.
“He who is not angry when there is just cause for anger is immoral. Why? Because anger looks to the good of justice. And if you can live amid injustice without anger, you are immoral as well as unjust.” - Thomas Aquinas
Thank you both so much for these supremely insightful episodes. I've listened to all 4 and feel confident that I understand the core tenants of each side. However, you didn't address the extremely positive appraisals of the South African case (in terms of likelihood of success) made by other legal experts - particularly Francis Boyle - which contrast with Norm's pessimism?
As far as the hospital that was mentioned in Israel’s presentation, if I, as a little old lady in central Canada, can research the fact that hospitals, medical clinics, doctors, nurses, ambulances etc…were illegally targeted by Israel to threaten an entire population I would think the judges could do the same.
A distinguished scholar whom I know and student of Chomsky found one statement by him dated after Oct. 7, likely before the SA ICJ case which could stop this incomprehensible, unimaginable horror. Chomsky, formerly a proponent of two states for two peoples, seemed to state that the Israeli aim would ensure that any "two-state solution would give Palestinians a state when they no longer have a population for it." The quotes are my professor friend's paraphrase.
The Qur’an often describes sins and wrongdoings as “oppressing one’s own soul” (7:23). It begs the question, therefore, what the difference is between the oppressor who commits wrongdoing and the oppressed that is wronged if both are, ultimately, being oppressed. I think, the answer may lie in that oppression attempts to strip the oppressed of their rights and dignity; whereas oppressing strips the oppressor of their very own humanity.
Heroes, South Africa and the Houthis! I agree! And yes you will get a pushback from the Gersh and the Murr and you will be diagnost by them as a Psychopath, but you are a hero too Norm !
When one considers the legal requirement of "intent", that is such a challenge to assert, perhaps it will make sense to look at Israel's history since 1948. Ethnic cleansing, which in itself is a war crime, is also part of the act of genocide. The pattern of policies towards the Palestinians throughout the years is evident everywhere.
Very appreciative for both of you. Thanks a million. However, may I ask a question. If Israel gets a "no genicide" ruling, what should we lay people learn Will this convince us that there isn't? That's it?? So in future, countries can do this to others in full view of the world and gaslight us into believing otherwise?
One day, while sitting with his companions, the Prophet Muhammad surprised his community by preaching, “Help your brother, whether he is oppressed or the oppressor.” A silent confusion overtook the community as people pondered the Prophet’s words. Then, a man asked what was on everyone’s mind: “O Prophet, we know how to help the oppressed, but how should we help the oppressor?” The Prophet smiled, anticipating the question, and replied, “By stopping the oppressor from oppressing.”
I wonder what retort Israel would have given, if South Africa had posed the following rhetorical question to the ICJ: "If Hamas had embedded itself inside Tel Aviv, would the IDF have also carpet bombed Tel Aviv as they have Gaza"?
Oppression comes in many forms. There is obviously the oppression of the tyrant over a people. But, tyrants also exist in homes, school grounds, workplaces and so on. The oppressor, feeling a loss of his or her humanity, is never happy and is, to the contrary, quite miserable despite outward displays. The oppressor is also always living in fear - fear of losing a grip on his or her real and imagined power or a fear that the oppression will come back to bite them. The state of the oppressor is truly worth pitying.
“Benjamin Netanyahu also bragged how he undercut the peace process when he was prime minister during the Clinton administration. "They asked me before the election if I'd honor [the Oslo accords]," he said. "I said I would, but ... I'm going to interpret the accords in such a way that would allow me to put an end to this galloping forward to the '67 borders. How did we do it? Nobody said what defined military zones were. Defined military zones are security zones; as far as I'm concerned, the entire Jordan Valley is a defined military zone. Go argue." Source : Washington Post, Haaretz, Business Insider, etc."
“Palestine is the genocide that we, as Jewish people, can halt. We cannot allow the moral soul of Judaism to perish with our collective silence on Israel's genocidal war on Palestinians in Gaza.” - Amanda Gelender
It _shouldn't_ be worrying about that, I absolutely agree, but in the world as it is today where Israel and its American ally put pressure on people and organizations to toe the line, the judges might be worried about how the court's ruling will affect their life and livelihood. Unfortunately pressure like that does influence people's actions though I hope that won't be the case here.
“No one told me that the birth of Israel required the death of Palestinians, an ethnic cleansing conveniently swept under the rug. We were taught that Israel represented a whisper of refuge carved out for Jews after the Holocaust - something precious that we must protect at all costs. It was “the only nation for Jewish people”, our homeland, our birthright: Israel. We were taught intrinsic entitlement over a piece of land on the other side of the earth. Israel was a second, optional home for us - but the story conveniently omitted that Palestine is the one and only home for Palestinians, who have tended to the land for generations.” - Amanda Gelender
What do you mean by, "if they have jurisdiction over the case?" Court of ICJ may or may not have the jurisdiction over the case..is a very strange notion, parties bring their case to the court and now after all this now you saying Court may not have jurisdiction over the case. Can you please explain it to me.
Norman, what would the world do without you? Thank you for all the hard work and passion you have invested into the subject. For me, and many others, you are the moral compass on the subject. Please do document the case discrepancies.
Dr Norman you will be remembered in history as one of the greatest scholars that had the courage to stand up even though you sacrificed your career.
He will mostly be remembered as a fraud and a POS.
This series of 4 streams with Norman and Mouin is probably the most thorough, rational and sophisticated analysis of South Africa’s claim of genocide by Israel in the ICJ. Fantastic job Gentlemen!
I love Norman. He sports the grin of a heretic who knows he is right while burning in the bonfire of his own making. When you speak truth to power, after much time and effort, it becomes a power unto itself. He is the personification of the idea that the truth will always prevail, even after many many decades of demonization, professional ostracism, and the pure hatred some have for the truth.
Beautifully put! 👏🏼
Well said 👏
What a huge pleasure it is to watch these two great minds together.
You two gentlemen have helped me become a better person. My moral compass is back on track, thanks to you.
Well said😊
Great comment.
Loved these conversations. We’ve absorbed the information like sponges and are grateful for you both. Thank you kind sirs.
easy to digest
Dr Finkelstein and Mr Rabbani, great humanist and intellectual honesty . Thank you for your work and time. God bless you 🙏
I began watching this series because of Dr. Finklestien, but what a treat to have been introduced to Mr. Rabbani.
We Love you Norman. All your Books are in my Library. Your Work Is a Bright Light in the World.
Thankyou Professor❣
I am a Jamaican and there is an incredibly respected Jamaican judge on the Court. I fear pressure will be placed on him to rule a certain way due to political pressure. I am so grateful to South Africa always a friend of Jamaica and for the wonderful interview here. I learn so much from Professor Finkelstein.
Actually we easily find out how respected should that man be.
did you learn that so-called ""Israel" will destroy every hostile judge?
I'm curious, what do you mean by political pressure? Do you mean pressure from the United States or people within Jamaica?
@@rackett8655 pressure directly from the United States which has its outposts of three letter agencies permanently stationed there and Jamaica has received security aid from Israel. Small amounts of people in Jamaica do care but unfortunately not enough to make a difference. Jamaica is also full of Evangelical Christians who believe this whole thing ushers in the antichrist?? and Jamaicans get nothing but mainstream US media. We once had a wonderful foreign policy but no more.
@@rackett8655 Zionist powers around the world my guy, I always thought conspiracies but nah, they are behind all the $$$ in the world. Even your phone records you 24/7, don’t you see how US politicians acting like puppets? They can threaten people with the smallest, things and we are all humans after all.
Finkelstein is absolutely right with his analogy about Malcolm Shaw, eloquently exposing his nauseating distorted morality in an 'ongoing' war crime and if the SA case loses, being an enabler of genocide. The irony is Malcolm Shaw teaches a course on human rights at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem each year, shame on him.
Mouin Rabbani and Norman Finkelstein truly are the best of humanity. ❤🙏
Correct. Through all of this I keep thinking of all the people over the years (I am older, here) who bemoan what we did NOT do during the 30s and early 40s: yet, the official word in this US of Amnesia, is support for genocide and oppression.
Please please please do more of these. This brings so much hope and inspiration and encouragement to all of us. We need this to be strong, to do the best we can, wherever we can. Please do more of these. We need you. I need you, so I can do more, and be more effective to contribute what I can to free Palestine, so be human. ❤
Mouin and Norman make a formidable duo! Congratulations on your collaboration.
Fantastic episode! Thank you, gents!
Particulary liked Norman's powerful words about Malcolm Shaw and his réaction to thé Houthis gave me goosebumps! Great epilogue as well!
PLEASE CLIP those segments! God bless
Eternally grateful for Dr Finklestein. We are blessed to have him.
For as long as Dr.Finkelstein is speaking I am listening. I really need voices like yours to maintain my sanity lol. I was in DC today (yesterday now) and it was awesome.
I hate that we all meet during these times but also honored to have witnessed you two brilliant human beings. Gives me hope that the people and governments will take a middle path so we could focus on other important matters and improving life everywhere
Norman Finkelstein has dedicated most of his adult life to the Palestine conflict and has continued to speak the truth no matter what. His integrity is truly outstanding and inspiring, he is tremendously appreciated!!!
So great having two of the most honest and clear analysts.
Can you please keep this series going , that's my favorite series. It is very informative and very well formed.
Ireland here . Thank you sir much love from Ireland 🇮🇪🍀💚🇮🇪🍀💚
Thank you so much for the series, Thank you Norman, you're a great scholar and a great human ❤
Thank you very much, Mouin and Norman.
What a beautiful human being Norman is
Thank you both so much! What giant hearts and minds! You give hope for humanity.
Very interesting interview. Thank you gentlemen. If the judges do indeed face threats, whether implicit or explicit, physical or fiscal, to themselves or to those who are nearest to them, and they rule in favor of the South African submission, they will understand what is like to be a Gazan or a Yemeni or a Syrian or, or, or...
Thank you Mouin and Norman - you are both excellent analysts and thoroughly decent people.
Mouin is underrated or rather "under known". Not just his analyses, but his adamant commitment to rationality as his people are abused and murdered is really staggering.
They are both some of the best that humanity has to offer.
❤
South Africa has a very strong bond with Palestinians. Ramallah is a sister city to Johannesburg I believe. Yasser Arafat was a personal friend of Mandela as a result of their joint struggle. Cuba and the Palestinians gave the ANC (the then resistance movement in SAfrica, which is now the ruling party)not just moral support, but also material support and were literally on the ground in South Africa with them. This is the reason for their fierce support of Gazans now.
Tremendously grateful for these two public intellectuals and their sober insights, striving towards a better future we hope
✨” You are two of the best Persons Humanity has to offer “ ✨. May your Work and Faith in the truth illuminate this world . Thank You ✨🙏🏻✨
That was most excellent. Its great to know we have great minds and big hearts on our side.
I would like to thank these great men for sharing their time and knowledge.
With 9 other countries in BRICS+ behind SA, this is the global majority/multipolarity group's first salvo against the empire, may the force be with the axis of resistance
18th January 2024 & 68 countries have joined as signatories with South Africa's case against Israel for genocidal intent.'
Thanks to you both
That was wonderful, thank you both - you are true heroes.🙏
Both of you make a great team!! Pls do more podcasts together!
Thanks for this great series! I certainly hope you guys will do the series you spoke about taking apart Israel's ICJ brief. Very curious what their evidence is and what you two will make of it.
53:26...
To say the least, BRILLIANT DISCUSSION !
Another excellent discussion from two learned men, thank you.
Mouin Rabbani and Norman Finkelstein are the best of what we human beings are and can be .
Thanks very much for these conversations, and of all the work you have both done for this cause. It makes a difference.
All 4 episodes were entertaining and enlightening. More Mouin and Norman!
I love these conversations are made public for all of us to learn from. Hopefully, we'll take these points and continue the discussion in our own social circles.
Thank you so much for this video. It was very beneficial. Keep up the Great Work! Much appreciated!
So appreciate these conversations. I will be a regular listener to Mouin Rabbani’s podcast, a very erudite conversation oartner for the great Norm Finkelstein
Your point about reputation of the UN, its own institutions, and its own rapporteurs, was incredible. Hope that this too is taken into account by the judges.
LONG overdue!
Really appreciate Finkelstein highlighting Yemen's "solidarity of the wretched with the wretched" and bringing awareness to the blockade and bombing that devastated Yemen
Always enjoyable to listen to Prof. Norman speak re israel/gaza war. Wish he had a weekly program to keep us up to date. Rockstar scholar.
Was aware of Finkelstein but also appreciate mouin rabbani and his efforts now
Mr Finklestein, you are an absolute inspiration for me. For all the challenges you have faced and the the devotion of a huge part of your life to support of what is right, supporting the Palestinians. As a musicsian/producer/artist myself, We often don’t experience our success or legacy while we are alive. I believe in your lifetime you will actually get to see the fruits of your labour as a result of ur hardships and You will go down in history as a primary academic accurately documenting all of the crimes that Israel has committed and pray you get vindication in your lifetime for your legacy that will last throughout history as being on the right side of history.
Bless you brother. You are true Martyr. May the greatest powers on the universe rain praise and love for ur mission.
Soha.
#soharadj #soha #ceasefire
One of the byproducts to listening to Norman Finkelstein is to get innumerable references to some old Western Movies.
Thank you for talking about the ICJ situation. It's good to know what's really been going on.
Thank you Norman. Your bravery and dedication to truth gives me hope.
I think the pressure on South Africa came from everywhere. As soon as I learned of the difference between the ICC cases and a genocide case at the ICJ my first thought was “South Africa must do this”, without knowing, given the depth and detail of the documentation and case they raised, that they were already working it up.
Norman looked like a sweet child when he was praised at the beginning of the podcast 😊
Whilst I hear (and share) the reservations of Finkelstein with respect to the independence and impartiality of each ICJ judge, there must come some point in certain cases where the raw facts and sheer weight of evidence almost galvanizes any ICJ judge into proper moral action over and above any duty felt to their home country domestic politics. Perhaps naively, I think that might be the situation here. We are talking about a gravely abhorrent ongoing genocide after all. The South African submissions concerning genocidal conduct, intent and that genocidal language is expressly Israeli State Policy was highly persuasive and compelling. And I don't think that the Israeli's did enough to rebut those matters with credible alternative facts that ICJ judges can rely on. Palestinians and the world might get some measure of real international justice here and at least get it on the formal record that Israel is indeed engaging in genocide. Let's hope that's the case.
As a wrongfully convicted person, feh.
Norman is not referring to these judges' national duties and mere politics but about direct pressure being exerted on them. Not a lot of people can withstand that kind of pressure. If your decision could lead to your government withholding your pension or otherwise choosing to punish you, not many would choose to pay that price. That's the reason Israel has been getting away with it from so long.
A great combo and discussion from two great minds. I fear going forward we don't have such greats in future gens!
I have watched videos of Israelis complaining of the fact there is a Lebanese judge on the ICJ panel. They accidentally forgot to mention the president is a USA judge, you know, the country that Vetoed every single UN voting against Israel. 😘
Too self-centred to think beyond their side’s needs.
It would be particularly egregious for this judge then to rule in favor of Israel given Israel’s attacks on Lebanon
because they can't form any judgment untainted by religious bias they assume everyone else is the same.
@@kgizem It's not religious bias, it's Zionist bias. They're perfectly happy to attack Jews who oppose Zionism or are at all critical of Israel.
Dr. Finkelstein, what a gentleman and a scholar. Humanity pleads that he will write another book documenting the current Israel/Palestinian situation, he has this unique knowledge. This atrocity against Palestinians must be documented, the future generations need to know the truth.
What would we do without Mr Finkelstein 🤍🕊️
Dr Norman all my love in respect to you
Love the introduction.
Its a shame that how few ppl are listening to these profound discussions . This channel should have more people sunscribe to it for bringing a chnage
RUclips will never recommend it, so be sure to share it around with your people.
Thank you!!
Thank you for praising the Yemenis!
Yes!!
Thank you Dr Finkelstien!
Blessings and love to you😊
“He who is not angry when there is just cause for anger is immoral. Why? Because anger looks to the good of justice. And if you can live amid injustice without anger, you are immoral as well as unjust.” - Thomas Aquinas
Thank u I am😢so grateful.
In this moment
These conversations have beeb riveting and fascinating. Thank you. You must be exhausted.
Thank you gentlemen!
Ansar Allah ARE heroes too, indeed. Thanks for the reminder.
🇿🇦❤️🇵🇸
Norman Finkelstein is a walking talking encyclopedie 👏👏
Thank you both so much for these supremely insightful episodes. I've listened to all 4 and feel confident that I understand the core tenants of each side. However, you didn't address the extremely positive appraisals of the South African case (in terms of likelihood of success) made by other legal experts - particularly Francis Boyle - which contrast with Norm's pessimism?
As far as the hospital that was mentioned in Israel’s presentation, if I, as a little old lady in central Canada, can research the fact that hospitals, medical clinics, doctors, nurses, ambulances etc…were illegally targeted by Israel to threaten an entire population I would think the judges could do the same.
Norms a treasure. Id like him to be designated as a UNESCO heritage site.
A distinguished scholar whom I know and student of Chomsky found one statement by him dated after Oct. 7, likely before the SA ICJ case which could stop this incomprehensible, unimaginable horror.
Chomsky, formerly a proponent of two states for two peoples, seemed to state that the Israeli aim would ensure that any "two-state solution would give Palestinians a state when they no longer have a population for it." The quotes are my professor friend's paraphrase.
The Qur’an often describes sins and wrongdoings as “oppressing one’s own soul” (7:23). It begs the question, therefore, what the difference is between the oppressor who commits wrongdoing and the oppressed that is wronged if both are, ultimately, being oppressed. I think, the answer may lie in that oppression attempts to strip the oppressed of their rights and dignity; whereas oppressing strips the oppressor of their very own humanity.
Heroes, South Africa and the Houthis! I agree! And yes you will get a pushback from the Gersh and the Murr and you will be diagnost by them as a Psychopath, but you are a hero too Norm !
When one considers the legal requirement of "intent", that is such a challenge to assert, perhaps it will make sense to look at Israel's history since 1948. Ethnic cleansing, which in itself is a war crime, is also part of the act of genocide. The pattern of policies towards the Palestinians throughout the years is evident everywhere.
Very appreciative for both of you. Thanks a million. However, may I ask a question. If Israel gets a "no genicide" ruling, what should we lay people learn Will this convince us that there isn't? That's it?? So in future, countries can do this to others in full view of the world and gaslight us into believing otherwise?
Lesson: We have to try something else to defeat Zionism. As long as the memory of Palestine lives, the struggle will continue.
Norman might be one of my favourite ppl ever
MANY MANY BLESSINGS YO U BOTH😊.
One day, while sitting with his companions, the Prophet Muhammad surprised his community by preaching, “Help your brother, whether he is oppressed or the oppressor.” A silent confusion overtook the community as people pondered the Prophet’s words. Then, a man asked what was on everyone’s mind: “O Prophet, we know how to help the oppressed, but how should we help the oppressor?” The Prophet smiled, anticipating the question, and replied, “By stopping the oppressor from oppressing.”
Glad to hear moderators perspective on why South Africa initiated. Finkelstein seems unaware of the ANC’S historic internationalism
You two Norman and Mouin truly represent the pinnacle of what humanity has to offer.🙏🫶
جزاک اللہ خیراجزاک اللہ خیرا\jz
No! Please don’t make this the last episode 😢
I wonder what retort Israel would have given, if South Africa had posed the following rhetorical question to the ICJ: "If Hamas had embedded itself inside Tel Aviv, would the IDF have also carpet bombed Tel Aviv as they have Gaza"?
Oppression comes in many forms. There is obviously the oppression of the tyrant over a people. But, tyrants also exist in homes, school grounds, workplaces and so on. The oppressor, feeling a loss of his or her humanity, is never happy and is, to the contrary, quite miserable despite outward displays. The oppressor is also always living in fear - fear of losing a grip on his or her real and imagined power or a fear that the oppression will come back to bite them. The state of the oppressor is truly worth pitying.
“Benjamin Netanyahu also bragged how he undercut the peace process when he was prime minister during the Clinton administration. "They asked me before the election if I'd honor [the Oslo accords]," he said. "I said I would, but ... I'm going to interpret the accords in such a way that would allow me to put an end to this galloping forward to the '67 borders. How did we do it? Nobody said what defined military zones were. Defined military zones are security zones; as far as I'm concerned, the entire Jordan Valley is a defined military zone. Go argue." Source : Washington Post, Haaretz, Business Insider, etc."
“Palestine is the genocide that we, as Jewish people, can halt. We cannot allow the moral soul of Judaism to perish with our collective silence on Israel's genocidal war on Palestinians in Gaza.” - Amanda Gelender
Why did Norman think he would get pushback from mentioning Yemen? Everyone on our side loves Yemen for what they've done for the Palestinians.
What is Norman talking about , icj should not be worrying that it cannot call Israel a liar when everything is indicating it to be a liar!
It _shouldn't_ be worrying about that, I absolutely agree, but in the world as it is today where Israel and its American ally put pressure on people and organizations to toe the line, the judges might be worried about how the court's ruling will affect their life and livelihood. Unfortunately pressure like that does influence people's actions though I hope that won't be the case here.
“No one told me that the birth of Israel required the death of Palestinians, an ethnic cleansing conveniently swept under the rug. We were taught that Israel represented a whisper of refuge carved out for Jews after the Holocaust - something precious that we must protect at all costs. It was “the only nation for Jewish people”, our homeland, our birthright: Israel. We were taught intrinsic entitlement over a piece of land on the other side of the earth. Israel was a second, optional home for us - but the story conveniently omitted that Palestine is the one and only home for Palestinians, who have tended to the land for generations.” - Amanda Gelender
Totally agree with you Norm, the Houthis are the heros here. And that English isreali barrister was nauseating to listen to
Shaw's vulturine visage is one of the powerful emetics I have ever encountered.
lol
What do you mean by, "if they have jurisdiction over the case?" Court of ICJ may or may not have the jurisdiction over the case..is a very strange notion, parties bring their case to the court and now after all this now you saying Court may not have jurisdiction over the case. Can you please explain it to me.
Let's pray they believe in humanity more then thier seat
Yes, exactly.
It looks like that room is decorated for Halloween lol.
Great discussion, tho.
Enjoyed every minute.