Thanks! There is a new video out by someone else with a new 'generation' of this idea. Look for "Lelit Bianca E61 - Preinfusion with Flow Control" and you will find it, I guess. The URl: ruclips.net/video/X6xFCdRT0m8/видео.html
I think this demonstrates exactly why preinfusion is important. If one starts pulling instantly then the risk of channeling is much higher, and it's now pretty clear why - the coffee puck seems to swell about 5 or so percent during preinfusion, and it seems to take at least 5-10 seconds. But the puck jumping was quite interesting, I did not imagine that!
i wouldn't imagine that either considering the entire reason porta filters are measured in gms is to ensure the CORRECT amount of coffee is being put into it. if you dont put in the correct amount you will see exactly what this video shows, "puck rise"/ poor extraction not to mention random coffee floating around aimlessly.
@@samdavies6404 If your searching for what the bean truly has to offer , step into the rabbit hole. You wont be disappointed :) Read on, Frans Goddijn has posted some excellent resources and examples. Find someone that knows how to pull a shot and roasts coffee, ask what variables affect what flavors that you would like to experience. While a La Pavoni Pro can be trying at times, it can offer a range of techniques to satisfy most users not available on other platforms. I like the older machines of La Pavoni Pro, I'm also an old guy and kinda finicky :) If your into experimentation, fix up an older machine. That's how I got started. Roast your own beans, see what that bean is really capable of. The good thing, you can drink your failures cause they taste like you purchased them in a store :) Good luck to you, but I'd follow the lady with the rabbit tattoo. Jim M.
@@jamesmihalcik1310 I have fallen in to the rabbit hole of beans and espresso just not got anywhere in to roasting beans yet I'm looking to get a popcorn machine just to have a go n see if it's something I want to get into aswell well as espresso, espresso machines and grinders also all the other accessories like distributors tamps etc
thanks for sharing ! I finally know whats happening inside the portafilter.. you gave me the knowledge that the 9999 other content creators couldn't. kudos to you. stay safe.
That is a really interesting video, thanks. It would have been 20 times better if you had a split screen showing the leaver being pulled and the bottom of the porta filter as well. Woukd you do that please?
Danke, das ihr weder Kosten noch Aufwand gescheut habt :-) hat mir sehr geholfen. Ich hebe den Hebel jetzt vor dem Einspannen bis kurz vor Einlass und spann dann ein. Damit hab ich weniger Channeling. Danke!
I do not know anyone selling these. Tije made a few and they do not live long due to high pressure, sudden big temperature changes and the very different way the components (metal, sealant, the glassy material) react. Eventually it cracks open and is destroyed.
@@TomsCoffeeCorner You're welcome Tom! Back then when we made the videos even La Marzocco wanted one for their Seattle education center. However, as they heard about the hours / cost to produce one and the need for their own tech team to work to keep the thing from falling apart under all the pressure, they didn't press on.
Really interesting thanks. I would have learnt more if there was an image of the leaver being pulled as well. It would be even better if a gauge was fitted to the handel to show the hand force in kg being applied to lower the leaver . Maybe a that's a follow up video...thanks
Thanks for your kind words! We're done here with this experiment but I expect others will, in time, pick it uo where we left and improve in engineering and high speed filming as well ;-)
+Tk Hsu Getting beans that have been recently roasted, for instance not older than two months, is essential, then having a really good grinder is the next requirement. What beans / roast date / grinder are you using?
+Frans Goddijn thanks for your reply, I am still finding grinder and currently using pre-grinded bean from this shop: www.monmouthcoffee.co.uk/ it taste good but not much crema. I might try porlex hand grinder first. what would you recommend? cheers,
+Tk Hsu Without a good grinder, it's best to just enjoy the taste and not think about crema at all. There are a few good hand grinders like mahlgut.eu/shop/ but they are not cheap. A Mahlkönig Vario Home would be a good start. I often hear the Bezzera BB005 is a very good and affordable grinder for beginners as well.
+Frans Goddijn yea, I was looking at lynweber.com/products/hg-1/ but too expensive ..... however i finally got crema on Saturday ... 1. 15g coffee bean grind to finest by Porlex 2. turn boiler on for 12 mins 3. within that 12 mins, pull 2~3 time to let water out, try to get temperature 80~90, then let steam out a bit so the pressure rise up to 1. 4. pull the handle to middle for 10~12 sec, then pull the handle to top for 10~12 sec 5. pull the shot slowly 6. err...I forgot to measure the amount of coffee out
Over a number of tests and videos thjat we made / posted with transparent portafilters, it became clear that a correctly infused puck (from grinds of good, relatively fresh beans from a fine roaster) becomes a remarkably flexible 'body' which can expand and compress without falling apart, asuming one uses the lever calmly.
No, not that I know of. At the time several others seemed to be developing versions, one looked especially beautiful but i never saw production copies available to order, yet.
Hi Salman, interesting idea. I did not know it was possible. I could download the video, send it to you and then you could add subtitles and upload? Then I could add a link to your ‘version’. I would need an email address for you.
@@palefire ofcourse! I think it clarifies alot of information for anyone learning about espresso extractions. Feel free to share it on s.laeri@48e.co Thanks for consideration🙏
;-) If there's a handle, it's always good for a man to have a firm grip on it, you will agree. Plus, if you have had a La Pavoni, you noticed that the downward push on the lever can be balanced by a proportional upward support of the portafilter handle, so not all pressure is on the boiler into the foot of it. It's being friendly on the base of the boiler.
yes in my experience it does. When the group head gets hotter, the heat sink radiates more heat, thereby cooling the brew group. Of course if the pressotat is set too high, or if one hot-flushes the group, the heat sink cannot correct that.
Hey there... I work for a coffee company with a very strong commitment to education. I have been trying to find out where to get a transparent porta filter for teaching as well as some testing. Is there a way to get in contact with Tije? I was about to contact some custom glass folks in our region but I feel like the specs may be a little hard to communicate. Thank you for any help you could offer.
+Brett Whitman Hi Brett! A company in Seattle wanted one for their training videos a while back but the cost of the time that Tije puts into the manufacture was too high and there was not enough time. You can email me zeepoeder@gmail.com and I can get you in touch with Tije so you can see what's required. A local tech staff who understand how to make the TPF last long enough for a number of demo shots is essential. The 9 bar is a LOT of pressure for the material / seals / compound.
+Brett Whitman It's like a F1 car, a super thing that outperforms others but needs attention and tech skills to keep running. And anyway the videos are online for all to see already.
PS Looked it up. It was Scott Callender we chatted with, July 2014. You might know him through our LM network. At the time he was preparing a ChefSteps video.
Why are you so focused on gripping that portafilter? Are you concerned it's going to move while the coffee is extracting? Do you think it's going to wiggle around or something? Might want to focus on the drip instead of handling the fixed portafilter if you're truly serious about improving your shots ....
Helllooo Spookyman! Thank you for your kind remarks and good questions. I do not know if you have any experience with the little La Pavoni manual lever machines so the following may be already well known to you. When pulling down the little lever, one can slightly bend down the brew group due to flexing of the boiler/foot of the machine, more so if the kitchen top can give way a little to the downward/forward pressure. One can counteract this by firmly holding the portafilter, slightly pushing upwards against the lever 'leverage'. This way, the operator of the Pavoni is able to focus on the desired extraction while the camera person concentrates on keeping his eye on the events inside the transparent device. The result is a pleasant and friction free team work without any condescending remarks which lays the groundwork for further video projects.
nothing beats seeing what's going on in there to help improve one's technique !! amazing video. thank you
Thanks! There is a new video out by someone else with a new 'generation' of this idea. Look for "Lelit Bianca E61 - Preinfusion with Flow Control" and you will find it, I guess. The URl: ruclips.net/video/X6xFCdRT0m8/видео.html
Really interesting video for those trying to learn Pavoni techniques.
Thank you!
I think this demonstrates exactly why preinfusion is important. If one starts pulling instantly then the risk of channeling is much higher, and it's now pretty clear why - the coffee puck seems to swell about 5 or so percent during preinfusion, and it seems to take at least 5-10 seconds. But the puck jumping was quite interesting, I did not imagine that!
Thanks!
i wouldn't imagine that either considering the entire reason porta filters are measured in gms is to ensure the CORRECT amount of coffee is being put into it. if you dont put in the correct amount you will see exactly what this video shows, "puck rise"/ poor extraction not to mention random coffee floating around aimlessly.
Brilliant video, This has answered so many theories. Thank you very much! subscribed!
Thank you for your kind words James! I will share with Tije who constructed the device.
Like what??
@@samdavies6404 If your searching for what the bean truly has to offer , step into the rabbit hole. You wont be disappointed :) Read on, Frans Goddijn has posted some excellent resources and examples. Find someone that knows how to pull a shot and roasts coffee, ask what variables affect what flavors that you would like to experience. While a La Pavoni Pro can be trying at times, it can offer a range of techniques to satisfy most users not available on other platforms. I like the older machines of La Pavoni Pro, I'm also an old guy and kinda finicky :) If your into experimentation, fix up an older machine. That's how I got started. Roast your own beans, see what that bean is really capable of. The good thing, you can drink your failures cause they taste like you purchased them in a store :) Good luck to you, but I'd follow the lady with the rabbit tattoo. Jim M.
@@jamesmihalcik1310 I have fallen in to the rabbit hole of beans and espresso just not got anywhere in to roasting beans yet I'm looking to get a popcorn machine just to have a go n see if it's something I want to get into aswell well as espresso, espresso machines and grinders also all the other accessories like distributors tamps etc
always wanted to see what was happening in there! this is great, thanks!
Thank you Paddy!
It would help if we could see you operating on the lever.
Yes, if we ever do it again, a two-camera setup would be great.
I was thinking exactly the same, but a fascinating video, all the same. Many thanks!
Fantastic video!
Thank you Eduard
Brilliant! Thanks for sharing.
Thank you Karl!
thanks for sharing ! I finally know whats happening inside the portafilter.. you gave me the knowledge that the 9999 other content creators couldn't. kudos to you. stay safe.
Thank you so much Dexson for your kind words! I will show thus to Tije who built the device.
That is a really interesting video, thanks. It would have been 20 times better if you had a split screen showing the leaver being pulled and the bottom of the porta filter as well. Woukd you do that please?
Yes that would be nice. We do not have a transparent portafilter anymore so a next team can produce it 😊
Danke, das ihr weder Kosten noch Aufwand gescheut habt :-) hat mir sehr geholfen.
Ich hebe den Hebel jetzt vor dem Einspannen bis kurz vor Einlass und spann dann ein. Damit hab ich weniger Channeling.
Danke!
Danke!
The lever speed.....never knew that was important
Thanks
Very impressive!
RTFM thanks!
great video man!
Winner of the Nobel prize: espresso pulling!
Thankyou! ;-)
Great video, thank you so much
Thank you for your kind words!
woooooow thanks for sharing ... any place sells transparent basket for laPavoni?
I do not know anyone selling these. Tije made a few and they do not live long due to high pressure, sudden big temperature changes and the very different way the components (metal, sealant, the glassy material) react. Eventually it cracks open and is destroyed.
this is so fuckin cool... this should have millions of views!!!
Thankyou Chad!
Will putting the puck screen, with a bit thick or weight, mitigate the puck disruption?
Possibly yes. We did not try that. Anyway the disruption is not really an issue, in my view...
very interisting video!
+Jonas Jessen Thank you Jonas!
Hi there! I just bought a La Pavoni Professional, pre millenium. Any chance that sweet clear PF is available to buy?
Hi Tom, sorry, these items take much work to produce and they are short lived. None available. Best, F
@@palefire Ok, well thank you anyway. Sure would be neat to see. Have a good one!
@@TomsCoffeeCorner You're welcome Tom! Back then when we made the videos even La Marzocco wanted one for their Seattle education center. However, as they heard about the hours / cost to produce one and the need for their own tech team to work to keep the thing from falling apart under all the pressure, they didn't press on.
Really interesting thanks. I would have learnt more if there was an image of the leaver being pulled as well. It would be even better if a gauge was fitted to the handel to show the hand force in kg being applied to lower the leaver . Maybe a that's a follow up video...thanks
Thanks for your kind words! We're done here with this experiment but I expect others will, in time, pick it uo where we left and improve in engineering and high speed filming as well ;-)
@@palefire thanks. I hope so...
Very interesting video !! I am very new to La Pavoni, and still find it tricky to get crema, do you have any trick?? thanks
+Tk Hsu Getting beans that have been recently roasted, for instance not older than two months, is essential, then having a really good grinder is the next requirement. What beans / roast date / grinder are you using?
+Frans Goddijn thanks for your reply, I am still finding grinder and currently using pre-grinded bean from this shop: www.monmouthcoffee.co.uk/ it taste good but not much crema. I might try porlex hand grinder first. what would you recommend? cheers,
+Tk Hsu Without a good grinder, it's best to just enjoy the taste and not think about crema at all. There are a few good hand grinders like mahlgut.eu/shop/ but they are not cheap. A Mahlkönig Vario Home would be a good start. I often hear the Bezzera BB005 is a very good and affordable grinder for beginners as well.
+Frans Goddijn yea, I was looking at lynweber.com/products/hg-1/ but too expensive .....
however i finally got crema on Saturday ...
1. 15g coffee bean grind to finest by Porlex
2. turn boiler on for 12 mins
3. within that 12 mins, pull 2~3 time to let water out, try to get temperature 80~90, then let steam out a bit so the pressure rise up to 1.
4. pull the handle to middle for 10~12 sec, then pull the handle to top for 10~12 sec
5. pull the shot slowly
6. err...I forgot to measure the amount of coffee out
+Tk Hsu Good! Thanks for sharing the details.
How does the fellini move affect the puck?
Over a number of tests and videos thjat we made / posted with transparent portafilters, it became clear that a correctly infused puck (from grinds of good, relatively fresh beans from a fine roaster) becomes a remarkably flexible 'body' which can expand and compress without falling apart, asuming one uses the lever calmly.
It would be awesome to have this made out of Pyrex glass!
Yes ☺️
Awesome
Many Thanks!!!
You are very welcome! Thank you.
Bravo!
icinema gr thankyou!
Are those transparent portafilters available for purchase by any chance?
No, not that I know of. At the time several others seemed to be developing versions, one looked especially beautiful but i never saw production copies available to order, yet.
@@palefire aw nuts. Thank you for letting me know!
Espresso for nerds! Want this!
Thanks for your kind words Peter!
Is la pavoni portfilter fit to sage ?
n hijji sorry can you explain in more detail what you are asking? I do not understand your question.
This is what would happen if Luke Skywalker wanted a coffee on the falcon
Thanks :-)
this is a transparent BASKET, the portafilter is the same.
Good point!
hello is it ok if i add arabic subtitles to this video ?
Hi Salman, interesting idea. I did not know it was possible. I could download the video, send it to you and then you could add subtitles and upload? Then I could add a link to your ‘version’. I would need an email address for you.
@@palefire ofcourse! I think it clarifies alot of information for anyone learning about espresso extractions.
Feel free to share it on s.laeri@48e.co
Thanks for consideration🙏
@@salmanlaeri7569 tiny version 9MB and large version 250MB have been sent to you via email and Wetransfer.
Any news about your subtitling?
Whats with you gripping the portafilter.all the time.
;-) If there's a handle, it's always good for a man to have a firm grip on it, you will agree. Plus, if you have had a La Pavoni, you noticed that the downward push on the lever can be balanced by a proportional upward support of the portafilter handle, so not all pressure is on the boiler into the foot of it. It's being friendly on the base of the boiler.
Where do you get that radiator for the group?
Tije makes these. You can email me at frans@goddijn.com and I can get you in touch with Tije if you want.
Does the heat sink help?
yes in my experience it does. When the group head gets hotter, the heat sink radiates more heat, thereby cooling the brew group. Of course if the pressotat is set too high, or if one hot-flushes the group, the heat sink cannot correct that.
materiál must be non toxic ... ie without BPA
Hey there... I work for a coffee company with a very strong commitment to education. I have been trying to find out where to get a transparent porta filter for teaching as well as some testing. Is there a way to get in contact with Tije? I was about to contact some custom glass folks in our region but I feel like the specs may be a little hard to communicate. Thank you for any help you could offer.
+Brett Whitman Hi Brett! A company in Seattle wanted one for their training videos a while back but the cost of the time that Tije puts into the manufacture was too high and there was not enough time. You can email me zeepoeder@gmail.com and I can get you in touch with Tije so you can see what's required. A local tech staff who understand how to make the TPF last long enough for a number of demo shots is essential. The 9 bar is a LOT of pressure for the material / seals / compound.
I see... This is not the kind of device that would withstand constant usage. I will consider this a little further before I contact you directly.
+Brett Whitman It's like a F1 car, a super thing that outperforms others but needs attention and tech skills to keep running. And anyway the videos are online for all to see already.
PS Looked it up. It was Scott Callender we chatted with, July 2014. You might know him through our LM network. At the time he was preparing a ChefSteps video.
material must be non toxic without BPA (this can be harmful E.g. for pregnant women)
Yes, this transparent device is for looking at coffee, not drinking it.
So that's whats going on in there
Yes :-)
I don't understand what your point and objective is. There should be no plastic components in these new inventions.
Purely for observation and learning what happens.
Why are you so focused on gripping that portafilter? Are you concerned it's going to move while the coffee is extracting? Do you think it's going to wiggle around or something? Might want to focus on the drip instead of handling the fixed portafilter if you're truly serious about improving your shots ....
Helllooo Spookyman! Thank you for your kind remarks and good questions. I do not know if you have any experience with the little La Pavoni manual lever machines so the following may be already well known to you. When pulling down the little lever, one can slightly bend down the brew group due to flexing of the boiler/foot of the machine, more so if the kitchen top can give way a little to the downward/forward pressure. One can counteract this by firmly holding the portafilter, slightly pushing upwards against the lever 'leverage'. This way, the operator of the Pavoni is able to focus on the desired extraction while the camera person concentrates on keeping his eye on the events inside the transparent device. The result is a pleasant and friction free team work without any condescending remarks which lays the groundwork for further video projects.