I remember a very long time ago now the Hawkshaw team wishing a warm farewell and they were done making content, Years later my favorite Soulsborne content creator is creating stuff on the regular again and my sorrows are lifted. From a fan who has been stalking you since the earliest days of your content, thank you ever so much for making videos that quell the brain worms that chatter on when unoccupied
I have this mental picture of Gwyn frustratingly trying to beat the dragons, failing, then going on the wiki and there reading Seath's comment "Just use lightning damage bro, it's ez"
There's a part of Gwyn's story that I'm surprised you didn't touch. How he came to defend the flame from being lit. When we find Gwyn, his health bar labels him as Lord of Cinder. A title that we wouldn't understand until several games later. We made a lot of assumptions about him. That he was hollow. That he was mindless. The music tells us that this is sad and we all seemed to assume that it was in a "look upon my works ye mighty and despair" way. Gaze upon the finale of the Lord of Sunlight. A mindless thing that lashes out with violence. But things start to take a turn in Dark Souls 2 where we meet the mightiest king of another age. This time it was different. Vendrick was a leader who refused to link the fire. He paces in circles. His sword drags limply behind him. He doesn't even notice the Accursed Undead to has slain his personal guard. Not until that Undead would return with a clutch of Giants' Souls held in their fist. Their combined hatred for Vendrick was enough to for the Undead's blows to finally faze him. Even still, Vendrick only defended himself with the crudest of technique. He wielded his sword with no more finesse than a club. Do you see what I'm getting at here? There was no doubt that Vendrick was hollowed, but Gwyn? Let's not fool ourselves that Gwyn was not fighting with intelligence purely based on how easily enemies were to parry in that game. Gwyn rushed down his enemy. Vendrick barely noticed it. Gwyn swings his blade with purpose and would change his grip on his weapon. Vendrick can barely hold on to his. Gwyn adapts, kicks, grapples and uses the flame as a weapon. Vendrick has what, two-three moves? Gwyn isn't hollow. Gwyn isn't mindless. Gwyn is acting with his faculties intact. We learn in Dark Souls 3 that Lords of Cinder have their minds. So why does he try to stop you and why is this so sad as the music tells us? Perhaps Gwyn has been trapped here this whole age or perhaps ringing the Bells of Awakening has returned him to burn again. He defies us for the same reason the other Lords of Cinder abandon their thrones. He does not want to burn again. He has lost his faith in the Age of Fire. Gwyn, at the very end of Dark Souls 1, has turned his back on everything that he believes in. Gwyn would let the fire fade instead of snuffing it himself and ultimately Gwyn and Vendrick in their very last of days have the same motivation. To prolong this twilight age until its natural conclusion.
Except not all hollows are slow and limp. Some laggardly pace about aimlessly. Others are chaotic and frantic. Its not about whether or not they are hollow that determines their behavior. Its what caused them to go hollow. A hollow has no thoughts, no aims, only muscle memory. Flesh remembering flesh, their final task. Vendrick’s final task was to await his own end so he could not link the fire. He paces without purpose as he awaits his end. So in his final death, he paces without purpose, uncaring of his surroundings. The nail in the coffin of your idea is Gael. Gael is factually hollow, but not when we meet him as a slumped beast crawling around and flailing. That was a broken undead trying to complete his task. When he sees the Blood, his task is complete, THEN he goes hollow. He stands upright, unburdened by feeling, or mental fatigue. All that is left is the memory of the last eons. The fight, the hunt for the Dark Souls. Hollow Gael is even more nimble and lethal than anything you will ever encounter in these games. Hollow Gael is death himself. Gwyn’s final purpose was to protect the flame, to not let it die. When his body is given to flame, his soul’s life is devoured, rendering him hollow. His only instinct is protect the flame, and his muscle memory is fresh enough to know how to kill, but its been long enough that he flails, he loses footing. Most of his technique is lost, but he has enough power and memory left to keep moving. So yes, Gwyn is hollow.
@@TheWither129 Gael was capable of speech. There is absolutely no doubt that Gael is not Hollow. His humanity simply overflows. He's in the thrall of his addiction like any other humanity junkie and is desperately trying to keep in mind he is trying to consume all the Dark Soul for a higher purpose than his own gratification.
Maybe Gwyn wasn't hollow, but Rather very weak because of splitting his power and Linking the first flame according to your theory Which is a good one.
"a lie will remain a lie" so if gwyn divided his Lord's Soul before using it to kindle the first flame, perhaps that was in fact the first sin, and that is the lie: he did not burn his Lord's Soul, he only burned what remained.
Not to be that lorebeard but the soul the WoI found wasnt chaos until she perverted it afaik. Based on the light and dark disparity, and the remaining one being death, it makes the most sense that WoI's was the Life Soul
I was thinking about the fact that the witch’s lord soul being the soul of life would make sense so it’s interesting, especially with how it’s tied to fire
I am so glad you've not retired you're literally the best Souls lore channel even with all the accounts that popped up after Elden Ring released Yet another banger by Hawkshaw
1:06 Just wanted to say that Izalith's Lord Soul was Life, not Chaos. The Chaos Flame was an attempt to use the Life Soul to recreate the First Flame. As you are someone who made a proper timeline, I'm sure you already know this.
Gwyn is a pretty interesting character in mine opinion. Kinda feel like most people view him a some sort of pure villian character, but honestly, looking through what lore there is - most of his actions seem pretty justified. He feels like a pretty wise and reasonable ruler that build a grand empire and did all in his power to protect it including sacrificing his own life. Most critics I hear of him is that he broke the natural order of things and that he screwed up humanity's upcoming dark age. But if you look at the situation from his perspective - his actions make perfect sense, and most of the time he was doing exactly what a good leader was supposed to in a given situation. I generally feel that the whole "breaking the natural order of things" argument is contradicting itself - it is absolutely in the nature of any living thing be that man, animal or god to do all in its power to preserve itself and its kind in the face of upcoming cataclysm. That's kinda one of the main defining characteristic of any life form - to try adapting to the changing environment to survive, it's just that men and gods have more resources at their disposal so unlike animals we actually can try changing the environment itself. So of course he was doing all he could to preserve, or at least prolong his age of fire, what kind of god and ruler would he be if he'd just sit on his ass and watch it all crumble, cause it's "the natural order"? And he did manage to win quite some time, even if in a long run some of the measures he took might have done more harm then good. I don't feel like one can blame him for not being able to look centuries inti the future. As for the whole dark sigh and screwing humanity with it's dark age - yeah, that probably sucks for humans. But then again this dark age of men doesn't feel all that awesome, wherever we encounter dark in the game, with a very few exceptions - it doesn't really look like a prosperous time. It looks like most humans affected by darkness strongly enough end up pretty twisted both physically (Oolosile) and mentally (Prophaned flame) and the main residents of the dark seem to be hordes of locust men that are pretty eager for the dark to come so that they can begin their "feast". Besides at the very beginning of DS 1 it is mentioned that lords themselves, including Gwyn, crawled towards the lord souls out of the darkness. And I feel like that is also something many overlook cause with that in mind - Gwyn look much less like a scared old man who is just afraid of changes and more like a person who might actually be very well aware of what the return to the dark might bring and thus sees even his most drastic measures, including sacrificing himself, as pretty reasonable compared to what awaits the world once the flame fully dies out.
Symbolically the dark may turn you into a beast, but going through the abyss is a necessary and unavoidable journey, as it's transformative. The ones that embark on it, some turn into fiends, some turn in strong roots that will bear the fruits of a future that may be good. Gwyn tried to hold back because he feared the bad things, and as anyone, and any living thing, he wants to preserve his existence. The consequences are that by holding back change he creates stagnation, which leads to resentment and anger and all the bad stuff that leads to the exact things he feared. And so it is in life. Things change, new generations come, dark comes, but it's only seeing through it that humanity can find purpose, a light. Gwyn wasn't a bad god. He actually did what anyone would do. It's just that the right thing to do is to accept entropy. Dark Souls 2 expands on these themes with the question of "what do you want?". You got the throne in the end, so what would you do differently than Vendrick or Gwyn?
Miyazaki is very interesting, because he seems to have somehow synthesized either Hegel or Marx with Shinto for his themes. I'm going to kinda big picture, but the main issue in all of his works is that a ruling order has tried to go against a natural cycle to preserve power. They do this perfectly understandable, self-interested and internally logical reasons, but this leads to an end of progress. A forceful stopping of history in order to ensure an eternal stillness of their power. This stagnation leads to a slow withering of the world they made, because the contradictions of their order are unable to resolve. They don't make perfect worlds after all, and these contradictions continue to grow in severity because history and the very natural world cannot move into something new, birthing their own horrors as these problems curdle. Gwyn is compelling because we can absolutely understand him, he's like every ruler who has done relatively well, and thinks these things justify himself and his power completely. But the cruelties of his rule mean less to him than his rule, and anything that upsets that rule is an unacceptable threat, even if it's inevitable.
There is another very interesting analysis about the relationship between the Abyss, The Darkness, and Humans made by "The Gemsbock", and it tackles precisely that apparent contradiction between the Dark Age being the Age of Humanity and yet having humans be corrupted by the Abyss. I greatly recommend it (is called: Philosophical Analysis of Dark Souls), but the gist of it is, that the Age of Dark is basically the Age of Absurdity. The age of a creature that is smart enough to understand purpose, but too insignificant to have one. It basically says that humans were perfectly fine with Darkness and the Abyss at the beginning, because they were aware of their own insignificance, but they also understood that being insignificant meant that they were free to craft their own destiny; unlike Gods who were "slaves" of their purpose. Humans that were "blinded" by the Age of Fire and tried to pursue Godly, extraordinary purposes, would eventually lose themselves to that impossible goal and lose their humanity; leaving but a husk that goes through the motions. Or they would fall into despair at their own insignificance and lose all sense of purpose. They would be lost to nihilism; the destructive side of the Abyss. Gwyn, by giving humanity promises of godly greatness, infected them with his fear of dark. With his fear of mundanity. With his fear of insignificance, and thus made humans susceptible to the Abyss.
My headcanon is that at the end, Gwyn gave up on the age of fire. In the final boss fight, he appears and fights like any of the other Hollows faced through the series. A hollow is someone who has given up all hope. Gwyn believed in the age of fire, so him losing all hope means that he lost belief in the age of fire. He fights us to stop us from linking the first flame, perhaps he knows that neither dark nor light will win in the end, but only Ash.
something i love about Gwyn, is that he is written in a way that only one thing is all it takes to change him from a good to a bad person. yes he made the course of the undead and yes he sounds like a guy you want to kill, but his children loved him and his people trusted him one of them was havel, he didn't lie to seath and did his part of the deal and nito, pigmy (didn't easily forget him) , and izalith didn't have any problems with him and people can't blame him after seeing what darkness did in New londo or Oolacile his fear is kinda understandable and he also burnt himself to keep an age he won't live which makes him selfless. he could have been a really good person, and something i wish we would have gotten in ds3 is Gwyn walking to us from the first flame telling us he won't let us lit it again because he understood the mistake he had made, then we just fight him because we don't know who the hell this guy is so we just fight him to get him out of or way.
I definitely feel like Gwyn is a much better person than people give him credit for. The darksign is what allows humans to live through light souls, an illusion all men trust fully in. We see what happens when they try to live through dark souls in New Londo and Londor. People also point to the ringed city when the say how evil Gwyn is, but the ringed city is way better than any other place in Lordran, much bigger and just as beautiful as Anor Londo. I really don’t see why people hate him so much
@@calebgriffin4214 Lucatiel. Among all the other innumerable Undead who lost themselves. Gwyn made humanity into a race of cattle, who were deceived into embracing their slavery. He also destroyed the world. The fire-linking curse will devour the very land until all that's left are ashes and ruins.
@@TheSuperRatt " With Dark unshackled, a curse will be upon us, and men will take their true shape." " Men will be free from death,left to wander eternally." Dark is the cause of the Undead curse. Dark is the cause of Lucatiel's condition. The Darksign's purpose is simple; to curb the Dark. When the Fire is lit and everything is going well, the Darksign simply does it's job the way it does when you use it as an item. It kills you. Except, in this case, you die once. You don't get back up. That's what happens when it's working properly. Also, do you know what the Stone-Humped Hag calls the Dreg Heap? " At the end of the Age Of Fire". More importantly, it's in the name. " Dreg Heap". Thanks to Lothric not linking the Fire, Aldrich's prophecy has occurred, and the dregs of the world have risen to the surface. This is why you have to link the Fire when everything is still standing; not because it itself is much closer to dying, but the fact that it going past a certain " time limit" without being linked leads to things like... This.
my comment probably wont be seen by many but I do so to show my support and gratitude for your hard work, Hawkshaw. Loved this lore about Gwyn, the mirror you had of him feeling weak at the end in a way he did not feel since he crawled around in the dark was beautiful.
I wouldn’t describe Izalith’s lord soul as the soul of chaos imo. Dark Souls is all about disparity, dark (furtive pygmy) and light (Gwyn), death (Nito) and *life* (Izalith). That’s how I interpret it anyway. At the end of the day Miyazaki put holes in the story on purpose so we could theorize and fill in the gaps, so much of the game is left to interpretation. Just my thoughts on it. Edit: Just remembered you were the one that made the video about Izalith being a full civilization way back when, so I’m preaching to a choir lol. Oops. Still think it’s an important distinction.
Hey Hawkshaw, I wanted to ask if you are familiar with H.P. Lovecraft. Its influence on Soulsborne is well known and often discussed, but one thing I never heard was the striking resemblence of anor londo and the novel "the dream-quest of unknown Kadath". In this story, the protagonist sees a city in his dreams, which is described as follows: "... He paused on the high terrace above it. All golden and lovely it blazed in the sunset, with walls, temples, colonnades, and arched bridges of veined marble (...) It was a fever of the gods(...)." There is even a lot more in this story that matches exactly things that are shown in the games. There are the so-called "Nightgaunts", bearing a striking similatiry with the beeings lifting you up from Sen's Fortress. For other examples, there is a high-priest with a yellow mask sitting in a abandoned church (old monk, demon Souls), etc. Maybe you could make a video comparing the story to the games, it could be very interesting. Greetings from Germany
The furtive pgymy and their people actually did fight in the dragon wars. They weren't written about though and their reward was to have their dark shackled at the end of the world of the Ringed City. Good video though! :D
I always wondered if Gwyn’s cruelty was a result of the flame fading, since he has the soul of light ,it would make sense if his soul & mind was deteriorating due to the flame fading.
I don’t think anyone who links the fire dies. The continue to live, burning for what seems to be an eternity. The Age of Dark might have released them.
Nice vid. But a part is wrong... the pygmy lord and the people of him werent forgotten or ignored. They fought on the Frontline against the dragons. Look at ringed city dlc. But Gwyn knew about the abyss lied to everyone about them. He knew that they were a greater danger than the dragons for him and his Age of Fire.
Ive always wondered what they would be like in their prime especially artorias and gwyn. The witch the leadt because ive been nuked in games before i know what its like when everything is fire 🔥😅🔥
Is Gwyn the Hulk Hogan Of the Souls series. Lemme tell you something brother! With these 2 24inch sunlight spears we'll cast them dragons out brother. Age of Firemaniacs running wild brothurrrrrrrr
No he didn't he burned to continue his pointless cycle and denied us ours. I link the flame as my last trophy cause it's just stupid when you think about it.
For some reason youtube didn't show your previous video on Kirk in my Subscription feed. This has happened multiple times now. No idea what's the cause. It's a shame, considering I look forward to all your videos. It doesn't sit right to put so much effort into making these wonderful analyses and them to not appear in some fans' feeds.
I believe the truth was he was a human. Theres a reason the hollow statue in 3 is as tall as him but crouched, and how when yoh meet him hes hollow and not gigantic. The truth was that they forsook their humanity to enevitably hollow even through reincarnation like in ds2. I dont think miyazaki could imply it harder than he did
Young Hollow, there are but two paths. Inherit the order of this world, or destroy it. But only a true monarch can make such a choice. Very few, indeed, have come even this far. And yet, your journey is far from over. Half-grown Hollow, have you what it takes, truly? Young Hollow, seek after Vendrick. He who almost became a true monarch. Vendrick is certain to guide your way. Fledgeling Hollow, may we meet again Heheh, I believe we've been acquainted. Young Hollow, conqueror of fear. What drives you so, to overcome this supposed curse? Life is brilliant. Beautiful. It enchants us, to the point of obsession. Some are true to their purpose, though they are but shells, flesh and mind. One man lost his own body, but lingered on, as a head. Others chase the charms of love, however elusive. What is it that drives you? Once, the Lord of Light banished Dark, and all that stemmed from humanity. And men assumed a fleeting form. These are the roots of our world. Men are props on the stage of life, and no matter how tender, how exquisite... A lie will remain a lie. Young Hollow, knowing this, do you still desire peace?
Gwyn did nothing wrong. Anyone who thinks otherwise should go check in with the citizens of Oolacile and see how they feel about the abyss of darkness. Last I heard they weren't having a good time.
While Gwyn gets painted as a villain who wouldn't late his age end, it is easy to forget that all four lords are competing for supremacy. Humanity is inherently greedy, and while its lord soul started off as the smallest, it will be the one that consumes all of them at the end. Let the feast begin.
Pretty sure this all wildly misses the mark and that he's intended as a straightforwardly "heroic" character - but the point of Dark Souls is that heroism is basically futile and nothing lasts forever. The whole thing about burning humanity is, I think, also completely off - and the bit about fighting Izalith for humanity, too. The city was overrun by demons because of essentially a nuclear accident, and the demons are indeed straight-forwardly bad (or chaotic). The fire started to fade, and the fading light resulted in undeath and ultimately hollowing: the visual metaphor is that a bright, powerful light casts sharp shadow (alive or dead), whereas a dim one creates soft, blurred shadows (undeath, gradual hollowing). The state of affairs with the Age of Fire is simply meant to be a good and positive thing, but fundamentally at odds with the nature of the world, and doomed to failure. A beautiful lie, as Aldia put it. Narratively I think the bits about humanity being sealed with fire (note: sealed not burnt) were mainly just to imply that maybe something at least somewhat not awful could be possible in the age of Dark - which is also what Aldia is on about at the end of DS2 ("what could possibly await us?"). Tldr: Gywn is a narrative device standing in for the inevitability of failing grandeur and nobility who made the ultimate sacrifice. You fight him as a hollow to highlight precisely that even making the ultimate sacrifice doesn't actually fix everything, and that everything everything everything ends. TLDR 2: it's a fairytale and not a political thriller: the evil queen in sleeping beauty was just an evil queen; you can write a version where she's a nuanced character with political dimensions, but that's not the original story's intent, and in reality it makes for a dumb movie (and a dumb sequel).
Gwyn is a remarkably complex character when you take all the games as a whole. He committed some obviously evil acts, but the way he inspired true loyalty in people, how he was respected by almost everyone tells me that he was no mere tyrant. Even the other lords followed him when called. The man must have bled Charisma. I also really respect Gwyndolin, who remained long after all others had given up hope. Even as the flames of his fathers sacrifice faded, he remained true.
I kinda had the feeling Gwyn and Gwyndolin didnt have a good relastionship as Gwyndolin doesnt have a statue and did not receive the blessings of Gwyn. Also "side not" i suspect Gwyndolin has influence over item description.
Alot of people miss this,but: If you shoot an arrow at the empty space next to Gwyn, you will find that the arrow stops midway, as if it found an object. A statue. An invisible statue. Now, who would have an invisible statue? Or rather, who would hide their statue like that? Hint: It's the god hiding in his daddy's grave who doesn't want anyone to see him and would prefer if you never knew about him existing at all, all so he could manipulate you from afar more efficiently.
I noticed that, lately, you rarely show the source of the knowledge you are currently explaining, be it item descriptions, artworks, interviews, etc. Why?
What rigorm said + I think in Elvish (or some other commonly referenced language that From loves to use), Filia = daughter, Anor = Sun. Daughter of Sunlight. Also Anor, as in Anor Londo.
I remember a very long time ago now the Hawkshaw team wishing a warm farewell and they were done making content, Years later my favorite Soulsborne content creator is creating stuff on the regular again and my sorrows are lifted. From a fan who has been stalking you since the earliest days of your content, thank you ever so much for making videos that quell the brain worms that chatter on when unoccupied
But no matter how exquisite or how tender, a lie will remain a lie
Chad
Good man
Gwynevere ☺️
I have this mental picture of Gwyn frustratingly trying to beat the dragons, failing, then going on the wiki and there reading Seath's comment "Just use lightning damage bro, it's ez"
Seath wanted the Gwynevussy
Now this is lore accurate
"Huh, skill issue" - Nameless King (c)
There's a part of Gwyn's story that I'm surprised you didn't touch. How he came to defend the flame from being lit.
When we find Gwyn, his health bar labels him as Lord of Cinder. A title that we wouldn't understand until several games later. We made a lot of assumptions about him. That he was hollow. That he was mindless. The music tells us that this is sad and we all seemed to assume that it was in a "look upon my works ye mighty and despair" way. Gaze upon the finale of the Lord of Sunlight. A mindless thing that lashes out with violence. But things start to take a turn in Dark Souls 2 where we meet the mightiest king of another age. This time it was different. Vendrick was a leader who refused to link the fire. He paces in circles. His sword drags limply behind him. He doesn't even notice the Accursed Undead to has slain his personal guard. Not until that Undead would return with a clutch of Giants' Souls held in their fist. Their combined hatred for Vendrick was enough to for the Undead's blows to finally faze him. Even still, Vendrick only defended himself with the crudest of technique. He wielded his sword with no more finesse than a club. Do you see what I'm getting at here? There was no doubt that Vendrick was hollowed, but Gwyn? Let's not fool ourselves that Gwyn was not fighting with intelligence purely based on how easily enemies were to parry in that game. Gwyn rushed down his enemy. Vendrick barely noticed it. Gwyn swings his blade with purpose and would change his grip on his weapon. Vendrick can barely hold on to his. Gwyn adapts, kicks, grapples and uses the flame as a weapon. Vendrick has what, two-three moves?
Gwyn isn't hollow. Gwyn isn't mindless. Gwyn is acting with his faculties intact. We learn in Dark Souls 3 that Lords of Cinder have their minds. So why does he try to stop you and why is this so sad as the music tells us? Perhaps Gwyn has been trapped here this whole age or perhaps ringing the Bells of Awakening has returned him to burn again. He defies us for the same reason the other Lords of Cinder abandon their thrones. He does not want to burn again. He has lost his faith in the Age of Fire. Gwyn, at the very end of Dark Souls 1, has turned his back on everything that he believes in. Gwyn would let the fire fade instead of snuffing it himself and ultimately Gwyn and Vendrick in their very last of days have the same motivation. To prolong this twilight age until its natural conclusion.
You're cooking, I watched dozens of theories and lore analysis videos, but somehow never saw this perspective!
Except not all hollows are slow and limp. Some laggardly pace about aimlessly. Others are chaotic and frantic.
Its not about whether or not they are hollow that determines their behavior.
Its what caused them to go hollow.
A hollow has no thoughts, no aims, only muscle memory. Flesh remembering flesh, their final task.
Vendrick’s final task was to await his own end so he could not link the fire. He paces without purpose as he awaits his end. So in his final death, he paces without purpose, uncaring of his surroundings.
The nail in the coffin of your idea is Gael. Gael is factually hollow, but not when we meet him as a slumped beast crawling around and flailing. That was a broken undead trying to complete his task.
When he sees the Blood, his task is complete, THEN he goes hollow.
He stands upright, unburdened by feeling, or mental fatigue. All that is left is the memory of the last eons. The fight, the hunt for the Dark Souls. Hollow Gael is even more nimble and lethal than anything you will ever encounter in these games. Hollow Gael is death himself.
Gwyn’s final purpose was to protect the flame, to not let it die. When his body is given to flame, his soul’s life is devoured, rendering him hollow.
His only instinct is protect the flame, and his muscle memory is fresh enough to know how to kill, but its been long enough that he flails, he loses footing. Most of his technique is lost, but he has enough power and memory left to keep moving.
So yes, Gwyn is hollow.
@@TheWither129 Gael was capable of speech. There is absolutely no doubt that Gael is not Hollow. His humanity simply overflows. He's in the thrall of his addiction like any other humanity junkie and is desperately trying to keep in mind he is trying to consume all the Dark Soul for a higher purpose than his own gratification.
Maybe Gwyn wasn't hollow, but Rather very weak because of splitting his power and Linking the first flame according to your theory
Which is a good one.
This comment is on point, and years later makes even more the sense than our original theories. Good job my guy
Love that you’re still covering Dark Souls 1! It’s lore has so much to offer and your videos are great at highlighting that!
"a lie will remain a lie" so if gwyn divided his Lord's Soul before using it to kindle the first flame, perhaps that was in fact the first sin, and that is the lie: he did not burn his Lord's Soul, he only burned what remained.
Thank you to everyone who applied!
swaws
A lot of ppl don't kno but since gwyn is the lord of sunlight he has sun symbolism a lot.... u shud hav mentioned taht btw....
@@klof4276 Please learn how to spell.
@@Invader_Hex?
It looks like, in the end he didn't......Gwyn. get it?
I'll let myself out.
You should be ashamed of yourself
You need to leave
Not to be that lorebeard but the soul the WoI found wasnt chaos until she perverted it afaik. Based on the light and dark disparity, and the remaining one being death, it makes the most sense that WoI's was the Life Soul
Light and darkness, life and death. It matches out
I was thinking about the fact that the witch’s lord soul being the soul of life would make sense so it’s interesting, especially with how it’s tied to fire
Life is represented in chaos often though. Life, femininity, chaos.
..who was the soul of cold though? Shouldn't there be such with heat and cold being identified disparities in the intro?
Heat is present in Light and Life. As far as I know, only the Dark holds the trait of cold.. but I imagine Death does as well.@@Sara3346
This is just like Gorbinos Quest. This is the Gorbino's Quest of Gwyn, Lord of sunlight.
Is there something cruelty squad have to do with gwyn lore ?
I'm always delighted to see a new lore video about Dark Souls, especially the original.
Thanks, Hawkshaw .
I am so glad you've not retired you're literally the best Souls lore channel even with all the accounts that popped up after Elden Ring released
Yet another banger by Hawkshaw
1:06 Just wanted to say that Izalith's Lord Soul was Life, not Chaos. The Chaos Flame was an attempt to use the Life Soul to recreate the First Flame.
As you are someone who made a proper timeline, I'm sure you already know this.
Gwyn is a pretty interesting character in mine opinion. Kinda feel like most people view him a some sort of pure villian character, but honestly, looking through what lore there is - most of his actions seem pretty justified. He feels like a pretty wise and reasonable ruler that build a grand empire and did all in his power to protect it including sacrificing his own life. Most critics I hear of him is that he broke the natural order of things and that he screwed up humanity's upcoming dark age. But if you look at the situation from his perspective - his actions make perfect sense, and most of the time he was doing exactly what a good leader was supposed to in a given situation.
I generally feel that the whole "breaking the natural order of things" argument is contradicting itself - it is absolutely in the nature of any living thing be that man, animal or god to do all in its power to preserve itself and its kind in the face of upcoming cataclysm. That's kinda one of the main defining characteristic of any life form - to try adapting to the changing environment to survive, it's just that men and gods have more resources at their disposal so unlike animals we actually can try changing the environment itself. So of course he was doing all he could to preserve, or at least prolong his age of fire, what kind of god and ruler would he be if he'd just sit on his ass and watch it all crumble, cause it's "the natural order"? And he did manage to win quite some time, even if in a long run some of the measures he took might have done more harm then good. I don't feel like one can blame him for not being able to look centuries inti the future.
As for the whole dark sigh and screwing humanity with it's dark age - yeah, that probably sucks for humans. But then again this dark age of men doesn't feel all that awesome, wherever we encounter dark in the game, with a very few exceptions - it doesn't really look like a prosperous time. It looks like most humans affected by darkness strongly enough end up pretty twisted both physically (Oolosile) and mentally (Prophaned flame) and the main residents of the dark seem to be hordes of locust men that are pretty eager for the dark to come so that they can begin their "feast". Besides at the very beginning of DS 1 it is mentioned that lords themselves, including Gwyn, crawled towards the lord souls out of the darkness. And I feel like that is also something many overlook cause with that in mind - Gwyn look much less like a scared old man who is just afraid of changes and more like a person who might actually be very well aware of what the return to the dark might bring and thus sees even his most drastic measures, including sacrificing himself, as pretty reasonable compared to what awaits the world once the flame fully dies out.
Symbolically the dark may turn you into a beast, but going through the abyss is a necessary and unavoidable journey, as it's transformative. The ones that embark on it, some turn into fiends, some turn in strong roots that will bear the fruits of a future that may be good.
Gwyn tried to hold back because he feared the bad things, and as anyone, and any living thing, he wants to preserve his existence. The consequences are that by holding back change he creates stagnation, which leads to resentment and anger and all the bad stuff that leads to the exact things he feared. And so it is in life. Things change, new generations come, dark comes, but it's only seeing through it that humanity can find purpose, a light.
Gwyn wasn't a bad god. He actually did what anyone would do. It's just that the right thing to do is to accept entropy. Dark Souls 2 expands on these themes with the question of "what do you want?". You got the throne in the end, so what would you do differently than Vendrick or Gwyn?
Miyazaki is very interesting, because he seems to have somehow synthesized either Hegel or Marx with Shinto for his themes. I'm going to kinda big picture, but the main issue in all of his works is that a ruling order has tried to go against a natural cycle to preserve power. They do this perfectly understandable, self-interested and internally logical reasons, but this leads to an end of progress. A forceful stopping of history in order to ensure an eternal stillness of their power. This stagnation leads to a slow withering of the world they made, because the contradictions of their order are unable to resolve. They don't make perfect worlds after all, and these contradictions continue to grow in severity because history and the very natural world cannot move into something new, birthing their own horrors as these problems curdle.
Gwyn is compelling because we can absolutely understand him, he's like every ruler who has done relatively well, and thinks these things justify himself and his power completely. But the cruelties of his rule mean less to him than his rule, and anything that upsets that rule is an unacceptable threat, even if it's inevitable.
There is another very interesting analysis about the relationship between the Abyss, The Darkness, and Humans made by "The Gemsbock", and it tackles precisely that apparent contradiction between the Dark Age being the Age of Humanity and yet having humans be corrupted by the Abyss.
I greatly recommend it (is called: Philosophical Analysis of Dark Souls), but the gist of it is, that the Age of Dark is basically the Age of Absurdity. The age of a creature that is smart enough to understand purpose, but too insignificant to have one. It basically says that humans were perfectly fine with Darkness and the Abyss at the beginning, because they were aware of their own insignificance, but they also understood that being insignificant meant that they were free to craft their own destiny; unlike Gods who were "slaves" of their purpose.
Humans that were "blinded" by the Age of Fire and tried to pursue Godly, extraordinary purposes, would eventually lose themselves to that impossible goal and lose their humanity; leaving but a husk that goes through the motions. Or they would fall into despair at their own insignificance and lose all sense of purpose. They would be lost to nihilism; the destructive side of the Abyss.
Gwyn, by giving humanity promises of godly greatness, infected them with his fear of dark. With his fear of mundanity. With his fear of insignificance, and thus made humans susceptible to the Abyss.
My headcanon is that at the end, Gwyn gave up on the age of fire. In the final boss fight, he appears and fights like any of the other Hollows faced through the series. A hollow is someone who has given up all hope. Gwyn believed in the age of fire, so him losing all hope means that he lost belief in the age of fire. He fights us to stop us from linking the first flame, perhaps he knows that neither dark nor light will win in the end, but only Ash.
And then the lord of the age of fire said: "Nah, i'd Gwyn."
something i love about Gwyn, is that he is written in a way that only one thing is all it takes to change him from a good to a bad person.
yes he made the course of the undead and yes he sounds like a guy you want to kill, but his children loved him and his people trusted him one of them was havel, he didn't lie to seath and did his part of the deal and nito, pigmy (didn't easily forget him) , and izalith didn't have any problems with him and people can't blame him after seeing what darkness did in New londo or Oolacile his fear is kinda understandable and he also burnt himself to keep an age he won't live which makes him selfless.
he could have been a really good person, and something i wish we would have gotten in ds3 is Gwyn walking to us from the first flame telling us he won't let us lit it again because he understood the mistake he had made, then we just fight him because we don't know who the hell this guy is so we just fight him to get him out of or way.
I definitely feel like Gwyn is a much better person than people give him credit for. The darksign is what allows humans to live through light souls, an illusion all men trust fully in. We see what happens when they try to live through dark souls in New Londo and Londor.
People also point to the ringed city when the say how evil Gwyn is, but the ringed city is way better than any other place in Lordran, much bigger and just as beautiful as Anor Londo. I really don’t see why people hate him so much
@@calebgriffin4214 Lucatiel. Among all the other innumerable Undead who lost themselves. Gwyn made humanity into a race of cattle, who were deceived into embracing their slavery. He also destroyed the world. The fire-linking curse will devour the very land until all that's left are ashes and ruins.
@@TheSuperRatt
" With Dark unshackled, a curse will be upon us, and men will take their true shape."
" Men will be free from death,left to wander eternally."
Dark is the cause of the Undead curse. Dark is the cause of Lucatiel's condition. The Darksign's purpose is simple; to curb the Dark.
When the Fire is lit and everything is going well, the Darksign simply does it's job the way it does when you use it as an item.
It kills you.
Except, in this case, you die once.
You don't get back up.
That's what happens when it's working properly.
Also, do you know what the Stone-Humped Hag calls the Dreg Heap?
" At the end of the Age Of Fire".
More importantly, it's in the name.
" Dreg Heap".
Thanks to Lothric not linking the Fire, Aldrich's prophecy has occurred, and the dregs of the world have risen to the surface.
This is why you have to link the Fire when everything is still standing; not because it itself is much closer to dying, but the fact that it going past a certain " time limit" without being linked leads to things like...
This.
That thumbnail is propaganda
"Souls, please"
Humanity, please. Thank you, hollow again.
This comment brought to you by the Dark Wraiths
Cause he's black 🤔?
@@ao1778 log off dude. Lmao
my comment probably wont be seen by many but I do so to show my support and gratitude for your hard work, Hawkshaw. Loved this lore about Gwyn, the mirror you had of him feeling weak at the end in a way he did not feel since he crawled around in the dark was beautiful.
I wouldn’t describe Izalith’s lord soul as the soul of chaos imo. Dark Souls is all about disparity, dark (furtive pygmy) and light (Gwyn), death (Nito) and *life* (Izalith). That’s how I interpret it anyway. At the end of the day Miyazaki put holes in the story on purpose so we could theorize and fill in the gaps, so much of the game is left to interpretation. Just my thoughts on it.
Edit: Just remembered you were the one that made the video about Izalith being a full civilization way back when, so I’m preaching to a choir lol. Oops. Still think it’s an important distinction.
I was just thinking this as well. It may have been called the chaos flame but it Izalith created quite a bit of life using her flame.
MOM WAKE UP HAWKSHAW VIDEO DROPPED!
I HAVENT PLAYED A SINGLE DS GAME IM REALLY JUST HERE FOR THE LOREEEEEEEE
(Dw I’m an Elden ring vet. Bloodbourne & Selkiro beat my ass)
This might be the most positive video towards Gwyn
Hawkshaw upload? Everything else can wait whilst I enjoy myself not unlike smoking a zigar
Hawkshaw DS1 lore is so deep that Miyazaki watches it to lore-dive
Hey Hawkshaw, I wanted to ask if you are familiar with H.P. Lovecraft. Its influence on Soulsborne is well known and often discussed, but one thing I never heard was the striking resemblence of anor londo and the novel "the dream-quest of unknown Kadath".
In this story, the protagonist sees a city in his dreams, which is described as follows:
"... He paused on the high terrace above it. All golden and lovely it blazed in the sunset, with walls, temples, colonnades, and arched bridges of veined marble (...)
It was a fever of the gods(...)."
There is even a lot more in this story that matches exactly things that are shown in the games. There are the so-called "Nightgaunts", bearing a striking similatiry with the beeings lifting you up from Sen's Fortress.
For other examples, there is a high-priest with a yellow mask sitting in a abandoned church (old monk, demon Souls), etc.
Maybe you could make a video comparing the story to the games, it could be very interesting.
Greetings from Germany
Hawkshaw DS1 content hits different
Gwyn just tried to run his kingdom the best way he knew how, and I respect him greatly for that
Thank you. Could you do Oceiros, The Consumed King?
Lightning is pure disparity.
A potential *difference* between a *positive and negative* charge, *relatively* speaking.
Fantastic as always mate
Who was the original "duke" of the dukes archives? before it was given to seath
Gwyn’s just charging up to go Super Saiyan in that thumbnail
Without a doubt the best Souls content maker.
we love ds 1 videos! good shit
White Palace is such a fitting song to be in this video.
In the end, he was just an old man too afraid of the dark…
Great video man, your content always makes my day
Gwyn Gwyn plon..
The furtive pgymy and their people actually did fight in the dragon wars. They weren't written about though and their reward was to have their dark shackled at the end of the world of the Ringed City.
Good video though! :D
Great video narrator is very articulate
Love the vids hawkshaw ❤
I always wondered if Gwyn’s cruelty was a result of the flame fading, since he has the soul of light ,it would make sense if his soul & mind was deteriorating due to the flame fading.
IS THAT TITAN SOULS MUSIC!?
I don’t think anyone who links the fire dies. The continue to live, burning for what seems to be an eternity. The Age of Dark might have released them.
DS1 the gift that keeps on giving
Nice vid. But a part is wrong... the pygmy lord and the people of him werent forgotten or ignored. They fought on the Frontline against the dragons. Look at ringed city dlc.
But Gwyn knew about the abyss lied to everyone about them. He knew that they were a greater danger than the dragons for him and his Age of Fire.
MAKE ANOR LONDO GREAT AGAIN
Gwyn probably
New Hawkshaw!!!!!! 🍿
God i im glad o found tour channel
Gym now, added to watch later
Gwyn burned for Gwyn. Specifically Gwyn's legacy.
Gwyn, much like Tywin Lanmister, valued his legacy above all else. Even his own life.
Gwyn had a lightning Chakra nature
Ive always wondered what they would be like in their prime especially artorias and gwyn. The witch the leadt because ive been nuked in games before i know what its like when everything is fire 🔥😅🔥
I love Hawkshaw
Is Gwyn the Hulk Hogan Of the Souls series. Lemme tell you something brother! With these 2 24inch sunlight spears we'll cast them dragons out brother. Age of Firemaniacs running wild brothurrrrrrrr
No he didn't he burned to continue his pointless cycle and denied us ours. I link the flame as my last trophy cause it's just stupid when you think about it.
Average pygpilled darknesscel SEETHING at sunpilled godchads…
@@pancakewafflez suncels when I hit them with the point blank dark bead
@@rigorm136darknesscels when I use Great Magic Barrier to completely negate their whole build
@@DopaDooow The chaos infused claymore in my pocket
@@rigorm136 WoG plus Sunlight Bladed Ricard's Rapier that takes enitre health bars with one R2
For some reason youtube didn't show your previous video on Kirk in my Subscription feed. This has happened multiple times now. No idea what's the cause. It's a shame, considering I look forward to all your videos. It doesn't sit right to put so much effort into making these wonderful analyses and them to not appear in some fans' feeds.
I believe the truth was he was a human. Theres a reason the hollow statue in 3 is as tall as him but crouched, and how when yoh meet him hes hollow and not gigantic. The truth was that they forsook their humanity to enevitably hollow even through reincarnation like in ds2. I dont think miyazaki could imply it harder than he did
The pygmy and the humans fought with gwyn against the dragons, no? that's why they received the ringed city
WOMP WOMP, ALL HAIL HUMANITY!!!🗣️🗣️🗣️
Babe wake up, new dark souls bible study just dropped
Young Hollow, there are but two paths. Inherit the order of this world, or destroy it.
But only a true monarch can make such a choice.
Very few, indeed, have come even this far.
And yet, your journey is far from over.
Half-grown Hollow, have you what it takes, truly?
Young Hollow, seek after Vendrick.
He who almost became a true monarch.
Vendrick is certain to guide your way.
Fledgeling Hollow, may we meet again
Heheh, I believe we've been acquainted.
Young Hollow, conqueror of fear.
What drives you so, to overcome this supposed curse?
Life is brilliant. Beautiful. It enchants us, to the point of obsession.
Some are true to their purpose, though they are but shells, flesh and mind.
One man lost his own body, but lingered on, as a head.
Others chase the charms of love, however elusive.
What is it that drives you?
Once, the Lord of Light banished Dark, and all that stemmed from humanity.
And men assumed a fleeting form.
These are the roots of our world.
Men are props on the stage of life, and no matter how tender, how exquisite...
A lie will remain a lie.
Young Hollow, knowing this, do you still desire peace?
Gwyn did nothing wrong. Anyone who thinks otherwise should go check in with the citizens of Oolacile and see how they feel about the abyss of darkness. Last I heard they weren't having a good time.
Then we get to Elden Ring where dragons rain lightning on you. 😆
Wild idea here: Gwyndolin is Priscilla's child (I will explain if anyone i interested)
11:12 someones fighting gwyn
Yes more lore I want more give me more
what? didn't Sith give his daughter to Gwyn? which is why yorshka exists? Also in the japanese text sith is not a duke but a consort kin instead
Gwynevere has two big reasons why men pay attention when she speaks. 🤣🤣🤣
While Gwyn gets painted as a villain who wouldn't late his age end, it is easy to forget that all four lords are competing for supremacy. Humanity is inherently greedy, and while its lord soul started off as the smallest, it will be the one that consumes all of them at the end. Let the feast begin.
SUNLIGHT FOR LIFE 🤟
Pretty sure this all wildly misses the mark and that he's intended as a straightforwardly "heroic" character - but the point of Dark Souls is that heroism is basically futile and nothing lasts forever.
The whole thing about burning humanity is, I think, also completely off - and the bit about fighting Izalith for humanity, too. The city was overrun by demons because of essentially a nuclear accident, and the demons are indeed straight-forwardly bad (or chaotic).
The fire started to fade, and the fading light resulted in undeath and ultimately hollowing: the visual metaphor is that a bright, powerful light casts sharp shadow (alive or dead), whereas a dim one creates soft, blurred shadows (undeath, gradual hollowing).
The state of affairs with the Age of Fire is simply meant to be a good and positive thing, but fundamentally at odds with the nature of the world, and doomed to failure. A beautiful lie, as Aldia put it.
Narratively I think the bits about humanity being sealed with fire (note: sealed not burnt) were mainly just to imply that maybe something at least somewhat not awful could be possible in the age of Dark - which is also what Aldia is on about at the end of DS2 ("what could possibly await us?").
Tldr:
Gywn is a narrative device standing in for the inevitability of failing grandeur and nobility who made the ultimate sacrifice. You fight him as a hollow to highlight precisely that even making the ultimate sacrifice doesn't actually fix everything, and that everything everything everything ends.
TLDR 2: it's a fairytale and not a political thriller: the evil queen in sleeping beauty was just an evil queen; you can write a version where she's a nuanced character with political dimensions, but that's not the original story's intent, and in reality it makes for a dumb movie (and a dumb sequel).
my mommy says i can use the ipad today
Gwyn is a remarkably complex character when you take all the games as a whole. He committed some obviously evil acts, but the way he inspired true loyalty in people, how he was respected by almost everyone tells me that he was no mere tyrant. Even the other lords followed him when called. The man must have bled Charisma.
I also really respect Gwyndolin, who remained long after all others had given up hope. Even as the flames of his fathers sacrifice faded, he remained true.
is the thumbnail a Bible reference? haha, great video as always
Biblically accurate Gwyn
I kinda had the feeling Gwyn and Gwyndolin didnt have a good relastionship as Gwyndolin doesnt have a statue and did not receive the blessings of Gwyn. Also "side not" i suspect Gwyndolin has influence over item description.
Alot of people miss this,but:
If you shoot an arrow at the empty space next to Gwyn, you will find that the arrow stops midway, as if it found an object.
A statue.
An invisible statue.
Now, who would have an invisible statue? Or rather, who would hide their statue like that?
Hint:
It's the god hiding in his daddy's grave who doesn't want anyone to see him and would prefer if you never knew about him existing at all, all so he could manipulate you from afar more efficiently.
@@alyseleem2692 I've always wanted to shoot that arrow at the empty spot but I always forgot. HAHAHA now I know, thanks buddy.
@@Pygmy_Warrior You're welcome! 👍
Ahh it just goes plin plin plon
😭
Tl;dr daddy Gwyn did a bad thing and burned for it
So the fire could be fueled by humanity and souls? Or just lord souls?
Or are the lords considered humans by the fire?
Bang on time!
good video
Studying for English test, chinese test, and math test? Fuck that, new Hawkshaw video dropped 🔥
About Gwyn too
Good luck with your exams
This might just be Vati vidias son
We rise
Gwyn burned for our sins
Seeth "Lighting"
Gywn is unironically the bad guy in every sense. Extremely selfish and extremely cruel
I noticed that, lately, you rarely show the source of the knowledge you are currently explaining, be it item descriptions, artworks, interviews, etc. Why?
New Hawkshaw video dropped
I will be there
He burnt for himself
didn't burn enough
Shit I was like #667…had to change it from 666 lol
Prolong the age of fire!
Gwyn did nothing wrong.
If you're a human, he most certainly did.
Andor Londo propaganda, he burned for himself
All these years of lore and there is still no Aldia Video, you disapoint me
Under 1 hour is not a movie
What daughter was given to Seath?
Shira says in DS3 when you encounter her in Gael’s arena after touching Filianore’s egg that she is “the Daughter of the Duke.”
What rigorm said + I think in Elvish (or some other commonly referenced language that From loves to use), Filia = daughter, Anor = Sun. Daughter of Sunlight. Also Anor, as in Anor Londo.
This is propaganda.