Typical inhuman London Underground Ltd. mentality. Late trains, broken trains, disrespecting passengers, frequent accidents, the King's Cross accident... You never get this on the DLR or London Overground.
Blaming automated operation is just union bullshit designed to deflect blame from drivers negligence. The automated operation gives drivers the freedom to concentrate more on hazards and dangers on the track, especially around PTIs. Clearly the drivers can't be trusted to even do that. One solution would be automatic hazard detection using lasers to tell if something is on the tacks and to stop trains entering a station if a hazard is detected automatically. Another would use AI to identify humans, dogs and other significant hazards although the chances of false negatives increases. The sooner we remove drivers from the equation the safer we become as we lose the human error.
All this paragraph and I bet this guy hasn’t ever working in the underground. There are yellow lines to stop people from falling over yet people still come over it. Even when they feel ill they don’t seem to sit back, instead they wanna come closer so they can faint and fall. There were always talks about having it non staffed, it will never happen. Or don’t come drunk on the underground.
Good job, that's the most stupid thing I have heard in days, automatisation is not always better, somehow even electric self driving cars run over people, yea big surprise, AI is about as reliable as a dollar store glue. At least human error can be held accountable and in check with the right circumstances, cause believe me no train driver goes out of their way to run over people, and please stop it with the anti Union bullshit, makes your point look even less appealing
So tell me this, how would it have played out IF there wasn't an operator on the front of the trains involved like on the DLR? Seems a very mute point of saying remove Operators from trains! An automatic train doesn't distinguish if someone or something is in it's way, it will just carry on to it's normal stopping point! The underground did do a study of if they could put a system of your so called AI but the cost of implementing it was very astronomical As an ex train operator on the underground for 40 years, I didn't see the male that jumped in front of my train in 2019 as it happened so fast for me to react! Still haunts me to this day! as was my first one under! RIP to the gentleman that lost his life in this tragic incident
@gadget63 having an operator on your train didn't stop the person jumping infront the train, neither did it stop the train hitting the person. But if there wasn't an operator then there is nobody to have a seriously traumatic experience with paid time off while they come to terms with what happened and realise there was nothing they could've done. The fact is, in every case of passenger struck by train incidents, there was either nothing the driver could do, or it was driver error. In cases where there was nothing the driver could do, automated trains would have the same issue, there's nothing the automated system could've done. For driver error the automated system removes fatigue, distractions, mental endurance, or any other factor that means the driver isn't operating to the standard required. If there was no driver, then you have an automated system that monitors the TPI and suicide pit using either lasers or CCTV cameras and sends a signal to prevent the train entering the station if there is an obstruction in those spaces. It can also send a message to the CSA to inspect those areas and then the responsibility is on the CSA to override the signal and confirm the the blockage is either inconsequential like a piece of litter, or a faulty signal in which case the CSA will have to confirm for each train coming into the station until the equipment is fixed. No more driver error, so long as it has a fail safe mechanism there's no risk of accidentally running over people. Will it cost a lot to implement? Yes. But what's the cost of a safer more reliable network? What's the cost of freeing the network from the clutches of a radical far left union which is politically motivated to damage the capital and disrupt the people working there? What's the cost of freeing drivers from the potential trauma of witnessing a passenger collision? The signalling equipment for the underground gets upgraded once in a generation, all the financial forecasts assume we disrupt that upgrade process to rip out everything that's been installed recently and put in new equipment. If the transition to automated systems was done as part of the upgrades, the costs would be significantly reduced. The people doing the modelling are politically motivated to produce a result that denies the benefits of automated trains, everyone knows automated trains work, everyone knows they're safer, more reliable and less politically active than drivers. No one discusses the hidden costs of drivers either. The infrastructure to support drivers, driver mess rooms, booking on point, toilets, tea points. None of that is considered. The value gained from being able to redevelop driver accommodations would offset the entire cost of the project to replace drivers. None of it is included in the modelling. If driverless trains were an awful idea they wouldn't be the standard for new metro systems in Dubai, Saudi Arabia or Qatar.
1:03 before I even fully watch the video I imagine platform screen doors could have prevented this. Also Jubilee Line trains approach Stratford from the South not the West.
I also think screen doors would’ve helped. They have them in other stations along the jubilee line. I believe the ‘east’ and ‘west’ is used to denote the direction of trains running on the line and not the aspect of the platforms themselves.
I'd be interested in seeing their security logs for that day as you can guarantee they were just signing and not completing actual checks... The fact not one train operator spoke to this man in the time he was sat there, before ending up on the track or even just alerting staff is negligent too. Unfortunately the unions run the railway so with the best will in the world nobody's getting into trouble for this.
The automatic operation of the train would reduce the alertness of the drivers. Once "something" was spotted on the track, the slow response of the staff would be concerning, though by that time the poor man was certainly deceased.
Thank you for a interesting yet tragic story. Unfortunately this is what happens when people drink excessively then use public transport just isnt a good idea really unless you are able to be careful and control yourself. And on the crews end 4 trains should never had run him over. That shoud have been 1 then Line block.
I read this on the BBC news last week and I couldn't believe what I was reading. The Union opposition to fully automatic traains is the the highly skilled, highly paid driver is ESSENTIAL for safe operation. When what we have are day dreaming drivers just earning a wage. OK one might have missed the guy on the track. even two but four!!!!! May be some of these drivers need their eyes tested.
@@kevinrayner5812 Before researching for this video, I believed that train drivers were in full control on the trains in the underground so was shocked it was all automatic! Thank you for watching the video🙂
@@REALLIFEHORROR-t8k I worked on the installtion of the system on the Julilee Line. Essentially exactly the same system on the DLR. An Alcatel system that was taken over by Thales. Also the same system installed on the Northern Line.
@@nigelkthomas9501 Hi, thanks for the comment, the London underground designated them as "train operators" as they only operate the doors and brakes. The automated system drives the train.
One argument is to fully automate the London Underground. Then these accidents wouldn't happen. Because train drivers get distracted easily when they only have to press two buttons to start the ATO (train drives to the next plattform). And that's a problem. But how much will it cost to fully automate THE WHOLE LONDON UNDERGROUND? Of course, there is already a ATO-system installed on many lines (Jubilee, Victoria, H&C+Circle, Northern). But it still requires a driver who is responsible for observing the driving route (which the 4 drivers failed to do) and the passengers change. How much will it cost to automate the observing too? If they don't want to pay this amount of money, they could switch off the ATO on the Tube lines and give the full control back to a human. Then drivers can't get distracted easily anymore because they have to fully concentrate to drive the train and stop it at the exact stopping position (plattform edge doors section). All or nothing!
Bozo was the WORST London Mayor. Secondly London’s violent crime rate was just as high under Bozo, this is because no London Mayor has the power to devise and implement policies on tackling crime, those powers lie with the Central Government and the Metropolitan Police Commissioner; a London Mayor merely controls the budget for policing.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
4:21 “inflatable doll”😂🤦♂️
@@Devmart53 😂😂
Could it have been one of DelBoy’s full of propane? 😜
this part got me lolllls
Typical inhuman London Underground Ltd. mentality. Late trains, broken trains, disrespecting passengers, frequent accidents, the King's Cross accident... You never get this on the DLR or London Overground.
Blaming automated operation is just union bullshit designed to deflect blame from drivers negligence. The automated operation gives drivers the freedom to concentrate more on hazards and dangers on the track, especially around PTIs. Clearly the drivers can't be trusted to even do that. One solution would be automatic hazard detection using lasers to tell if something is on the tacks and to stop trains entering a station if a hazard is detected automatically. Another would use AI to identify humans, dogs and other significant hazards although the chances of false negatives increases. The sooner we remove drivers from the equation the safer we become as we lose the human error.
All this paragraph and I bet this guy hasn’t ever working in the underground. There are yellow lines to stop people from falling over yet people still come over it. Even when they feel ill they don’t seem to sit back, instead they wanna come closer so they can faint and fall. There were always talks about having it non staffed, it will never happen. Or don’t come drunk on the underground.
Drivers are the most important job. Wanker. I bet you don’t even drive a car.
Good job, that's the most stupid thing I have heard in days, automatisation is not always better, somehow even electric self driving cars run over people, yea big surprise, AI is about as reliable as a dollar store glue. At least human error can be held accountable and in check with the right circumstances, cause believe me no train driver goes out of their way to run over people, and please stop it with the anti Union bullshit, makes your point look even less appealing
So tell me this, how would it have played out IF there wasn't an operator on the front of the trains involved like on the DLR? Seems a very mute point of saying remove Operators from trains! An automatic train doesn't distinguish if someone or something is in it's way, it will just carry on to it's normal stopping point! The underground did do a study of if they could put a system of your so called AI but the cost of implementing it was very astronomical
As an ex train operator on the underground for 40 years, I didn't see the male that jumped in front of my train in 2019 as it happened so fast for me to react! Still haunts me to this day! as was my first one under!
RIP to the gentleman that lost his life in this tragic incident
@gadget63 having an operator on your train didn't stop the person jumping infront the train, neither did it stop the train hitting the person. But if there wasn't an operator then there is nobody to have a seriously traumatic experience with paid time off while they come to terms with what happened and realise there was nothing they could've done. The fact is, in every case of passenger struck by train incidents, there was either nothing the driver could do, or it was driver error. In cases where there was nothing the driver could do, automated trains would have the same issue, there's nothing the automated system could've done. For driver error the automated system removes fatigue, distractions, mental endurance, or any other factor that means the driver isn't operating to the standard required.
If there was no driver, then you have an automated system that monitors the TPI and suicide pit using either lasers or CCTV cameras and sends a signal to prevent the train entering the station if there is an obstruction in those spaces. It can also send a message to the CSA to inspect those areas and then the responsibility is on the CSA to override the signal and confirm the the blockage is either inconsequential like a piece of litter, or a faulty signal in which case the CSA will have to confirm for each train coming into the station until the equipment is fixed.
No more driver error, so long as it has a fail safe mechanism there's no risk of accidentally running over people.
Will it cost a lot to implement? Yes. But what's the cost of a safer more reliable network? What's the cost of freeing the network from the clutches of a radical far left union which is politically motivated to damage the capital and disrupt the people working there? What's the cost of freeing drivers from the potential trauma of witnessing a passenger collision? The signalling equipment for the underground gets upgraded once in a generation, all the financial forecasts assume we disrupt that upgrade process to rip out everything that's been installed recently and put in new equipment. If the transition to automated systems was done as part of the upgrades, the costs would be significantly reduced. The people doing the modelling are politically motivated to produce a result that denies the benefits of automated trains, everyone knows automated trains work, everyone knows they're safer, more reliable and less politically active than drivers. No one discusses the hidden costs of drivers either. The infrastructure to support drivers, driver mess rooms, booking on point, toilets, tea points. None of that is considered. The value gained from being able to redevelop driver accommodations would offset the entire cost of the project to replace drivers. None of it is included in the modelling.
If driverless trains were an awful idea they wouldn't be the standard for new metro systems in Dubai, Saudi Arabia or Qatar.
1:03 before I even fully watch the video I imagine platform screen doors could have prevented this. Also Jubilee Line trains approach Stratford from the South not the West.
I also think screen doors would’ve helped. They have them in other stations along the jubilee line.
I believe the ‘east’ and ‘west’ is used to denote the direction of trains running on the line and not the aspect of the platforms themselves.
I'd be interested in seeing their security logs for that day as you can guarantee they were just signing and not completing actual checks... The fact not one train operator spoke to this man in the time he was sat there, before ending up on the track or even just alerting staff is negligent too. Unfortunately the unions run the railway so with the best will in the world nobody's getting into trouble for this.
I find it very odd that nobody saw him for the entire time he was there. Thanks for watching! 😊
The automatic operation of the train would reduce the alertness of the drivers. Once "something" was spotted on the track, the slow response of the staff would be concerning, though by that time the poor man was certainly deceased.
Thank you for a interesting yet tragic story.
Unfortunately this is what happens when people drink excessively then use public transport just isnt a good idea really unless you are able to be careful and control yourself. And on the crews end 4 trains should never had run him over. That shoud have been 1 then Line block.
@@luketrainspotteryt2007 Thanks for watching and your nice comments👍
The guy was pissed out of his mind then.
I read this on the BBC news last week and I couldn't believe what I was reading. The Union opposition to fully automatic traains is the the highly skilled, highly paid driver is ESSENTIAL for safe operation. When what we have are day dreaming drivers just earning a wage. OK one might have missed the guy on the track. even two but four!!!!! May be some of these drivers need their eyes tested.
@@kevinrayner5812 Before researching for this video, I believed that train drivers were in full control on the trains in the underground so was shocked it was all automatic! Thank you for watching the video🙂
@@REALLIFEHORROR-t8k I worked on the installtion of the system on the Julilee Line. Essentially exactly the same system on the DLR. An Alcatel system that was taken over by Thales. Also the same system installed on the Northern Line.
@@REALLIFEHORROR-t8k Auto lines on TfL Vic, Northern, Central, Circle and H&C, part of the District and Met and of course the Jub.
whys he sitting so long for
Thanks for an interesting, if horrifying, recount. Just a quick note, something is amiss with your audio with several cracks and pops.
@@mr_b_hhc yes, I did notice after I published, not sure why, but thanks for highlighting😊👍
Didn't something similar happen to Frank Nitti in Chicago in 1936?
Logical West is in fact geographic South \m/
Train operator? Don’t you mean train driver?
How come this guy didn’t try to get back onto the platform? Sounds like a right careless git!
He was intoxicated, and couldn't stand. So he was basically helpless. Unfortunately
@ So…he was a pissed-up careless git then? All self inflicted then compassion is expected when he ends up in the track? Pfff! 🤮
@@nigelkthomas9501 Hi, thanks for the comment, the London underground designated them as "train operators" as they only operate the doors and brakes. The automated system drives the train.
Show some f***ing compassion.
@ Oh right. Be like the Docklands light railway in the not too distant then!
One argument is to fully automate the London Underground. Then these accidents wouldn't happen. Because train drivers get distracted easily when they only have to press two buttons to start the ATO (train drives to the next plattform). And that's a problem.
But how much will it cost to fully automate THE WHOLE LONDON UNDERGROUND? Of course, there is already a ATO-system installed on many lines (Jubilee, Victoria, H&C+Circle, Northern). But it still requires a driver who is responsible for observing the driving route (which the 4 drivers failed to do) and the passengers change. How much will it cost to automate the observing too?
If they don't want to pay this amount of money, they could switch off the ATO on the Tube lines and give the full control back to a human. Then drivers can't get distracted easily anymore because they have to fully concentrate to drive the train and stop it at the exact stopping position (plattform edge doors section). All or nothing!
If Boris had had his way, the tube would have been fully automated and this sort of thing would be happening every day.
Bozo was the WORST London Mayor. Secondly London’s violent crime rate was just as high under Bozo, this is because no London Mayor has the power to devise and implement policies on tackling crime, those powers lie with the Central Government and the Metropolitan Police Commissioner; a London Mayor merely controls the budget for policing.
Being 3 times over the drink driving limit is not astonishing, that is 4 beers. I drink that in an hour.