Thanks for putting this video together. I have two different versions of the LV6548 on my bench currently with very different idle consumption amounts and was curious how it compared to the EG4 model (which is what led me here). Got my questions answered! 🙂
Thanks Mike! Been watching your channel for years and you've been a big help to me, so I'm glad I can return the favor in some small manner. From my discussions with other people, the LVs have a better idle consumption than the 6500s.
I’ve actually been told by SS that the consumption can be anywhere from 80-120w (but I haven’t been able to find out what can cause such drastic swings in consumption).
@@AdamDeLayDIY Not sure why it would vary like that unless it's based on ambient temperature thus causing different fan speeds? I'm working on a video of the new LV6548V and the idle consumption is through the roof vs the original LV6548 - 110W for ONE inverter! Ridiculous. That's what got me looking...
@@LithiumSolar All I’ve been able to get out of them so far is that some of the units have different internal boards which can affect the idle consumption (trying to find out what boards have changed). I know the first units I had, which were one of the original models, had an idle consumption of 70-74w. The newer units I have now have jumped up between 89-94w. I’ve actually been waiting to see a review on the 6548V. I’ve heard there have been a lot of “flickering light” issues like the 6500s. Seems like both the idle consumption and the flickering lights have to deal with the change in mppt boards to allow for the higher PV voltage. 110v though is making me feel a little better about my 89-94v though…only a little though. I miss my 70v…well, let’s be honest, I miss my 20 something consumption from my 12v inverter…
In my opinion the idle consumption is higher then the manual because they are still using the stats from the old manual. And that is based off the original 6500 inverters. They have larger fans in these inverters plus whatever higher voltage capacity hardware they installed. So that may not be as efficient. Most of the manual was just a copy from the mpp version when I looked at mine.
@@warzoneclips2285 voltronics, yes. Supposedly anyway. But they could at least update the manual to reflect the changes they’ve made. That was my point.
@@warzoneclips2285 they are running completely different firmware altogether and they’ve removed the bonding screw. And potentially other things. All of which potentially effect the ways in which you should wire the unit and it’s performance. Some of this is reflected in the manual and some isn’t. My LV’s use 71 watts idle consumption.
Odd thing is the idle consumption is different between my old units and new ones. I asked SS about it and just last night I was informed that additional internal boards where changed in these revisions which could account for the higher idle consumption. I’m waiting for a better explanation to see if it’s actually true though…
Thanks for the video and introducing me to Solar Assistant. Although, I probably don't really want to know how poorly my EG4 6500 system is performing ;-)
Your videos are getting really good man! Thank you very much for putting this information out there most videos I see don't cover this because there trying to get affiliate commission. 🍻
Thanks! That’s why I’m sharing them. I see a lot of things talked about in the forums, but nothing really on YT. I actually tried to get set up as an affiliate with SS. I think they saw my videos and decided not to respond… 😁
My epever have idl 21 watts. Am very happy with it, i had two chinees inverters and they used in idl 90 to 100 watts, so i have to compensates.with 3 extra solar panels, i am fully offgrid
My MPP LV6548's, which are the same machine, drew 65w each idle. You can drop it down a bit by turning off the light in your parameter settings, and also set it to energy saver mode (assuming the firmware on the EG4 is similar).
Thanks for commenting. Nice to hear of a comparison between the 6548s. So I did turn off the light bar and the backlight of the displays (which I normally keep off anyways) and it might have dropped a single watt. There wasn't much draw there at all. Unfortunately the 6500s don't have an energy saver mode. EG4 must have had that disabled or removed for some reason.
I would agree with you except for the fact that the first batch of 6500s that I had only had a 70-74w idle consumption. The newer revisions are now 89-94w (and I’ve been told in some instances up to 120w).
Hey all . Off topic a little. Wanted to share something with our 2- 6500 ex’s Things have been going very well as of spring 2023 . We added 10 more panels for a total of 40 . Using all 4 charge controller inputs. As well as adding 6 more EG4 batteries for 12 total. All was working fantastic. Until about 2 weeks ago the weather pattern changed and we’ve had a few cloudy days. I monitor battery charge daily and noticed the batteries were only about half. ( ok expected as it’s been cloudy) . However I noticed when the sun was out in full. Even light loads on the inverters. Each was only charging 20 amps or less. With the batteries at half . I’ve been stumped as previously similar situation each inverter would charge 90 amps or more . I happen to scroll through settings. And for some reason the main inverter switched itself from (EG4 ) battery selection to user . Have no idea why. Changed back to EG4 And charging went back to normal 85-90 amps per inverter . These things sure have their quirks
I've heard of this happening several times. I can't recall if there was ever a resolution though. I know there were some firmware versions in the past which had some problems with settings changing. Do you know what firmware version you're running on your inverters?
These inverters have a lot of issues, and I am sorry that I recommend to my friend and partner, we've noticed the flickering problem to, but haven't even gotten into dealing with that yet. The first major issue is when operating from the grid and the batteries are charged and floating, that goofy charger has a problem, apparently it is incapable of going to the floating voltage of the batteries so it cycles on and off to keep from over charging the batteries, so I found out quite by accdent that as it does this, it creates as high as a 140 volt spike on the AC mains. What alerted me to this problem was that I had one of these units hooked up to one of the battery banks that I had just received, and was charging and balancing the pack, and the pack had just reached the float voltage and the active balancer was in the process of getting all of the cells in balance. I left the room, and went into the kitchen to start making my dinner, and I have one of those PIC induction cook top 's from New Wave, so I started to boil water, as I was making Spaghetti, and needed to boil the noodles, but my induction cook top, just would not boil the water, it kept starting and stopping, and I almost threw it out in the trash, because I thought it was failing, but I noticed that the light over the stove was flickering just slightly and I already knew that that induction cooker would not operate on a modified sign wave inverter, it had to be a pure sign wave inverter, so just on a hunch I got out my fluke scope meter, and connected in across the line, and there was this very sharp spike every time that inverter would cycle, and I even tried it at my Neighbor's house, that happens to be on the same pad mount transformer as me and as long as I am on the same phase as the EG4 inverter it would not work at his house either!!! Even though the spike was not as strong only about 46 volts even the transformer was unable to completely block the spike. So needless to say I am not very impressed with these inverters, although they do have some pretty impressive starting power, my buddy has had several over current trips on these inverters, but as long as the hot water, and or the dryer is not running, they will most of the time start up there 9 ton heat pump that has a 161 amp industry very impressive!! But we have problems with them shutting down randomly during the night, and when you go out to check them, they are both dark, just as if you had turned them off, but both power buttons are still in, but cycling them brings them back on line as if nothing is rong and they have no errors showing????? And then there's the flickering lights! I just think there's too many problems, and I don't think a software update is going to fix all of them 😕
Seems like you have quite the laundry list of problems. Have you talked with Signature Solar about these issues? Not sure what could be causing the voltage spike. Only thing that comes to me about the shutdowns would be battery disconnects. Wonder if the WatchPower logs would show anything?
I need to check my Growatt 3000, but I know those EG4 "rebranded" all in one units have been troublesome for everyone who uses them. I would go with a Schnider or Victron Multiplus, I blame the firmware on them.
I just checked and I have 998 active youtube subscriptions. Yours and a handful of others are the ones I find myself checking for new uploads on a daily basis. That should tell you something and tells me to get a life.
Thanks! Don’t know why your looking at mine though….😁 I tend to do the same thing with my subscriptions as well. Keep looking for the little red dot in the app to see if I have something new to watch.
are they separating the inverter idle load and the total unit idle load? when you shut the inverters off, the fans seem to be using the balance over the stated inverter load. it sounds like its just poorly written/translated possibly? aside from being a generally poor efficiency too
During the day at 100% SOC with your grid AC input breaker off, what does SA indicate for the PV input vs load. For instance, mine reads 712W PV and 401W load at 1530 on a cloudy day. Thinking of this inverter's PV DC to AC conversion efficiency; manual say 93%.
I think it’s gonna be hard to be exact without having meters on each individual piece of the system. Solar assistant does not update all of the values at the exact same time. It can only update based on when it receives new information from the remote devices. The inverters seem to be significantly slower in updating then the smart shunt. It’ll probably also depend on the individual idle consumption of the inverters as well. I turned off my AC in, and I took a screenshot of my Solar Assistant display. 372w load 556w pv +25w into battery Adding the load, battery and idle consumption gives me more power that what the PV was showing as coming in. So obviously the inverter data was off. Unfortunately you can’t quickly look at the displays of the inverters to see all the info you need to make the proper calculations.
Thanks Adam! Thats crazy to know. That means for my six inverter system, I am expending nearly 8,000 watts during off solar hours. Thats 1.6 batteries or 230 kWh if using grid power. This explains why I cant make it through the night. Using the grid for the idle power is a other dumb design decision, particularly withouf our knowledge or ability to configure this. Need a way to cycle four down in after hours. Please clarify the setting options of appliance and UPS. I was nodding off toward the end and didnt follow how this might reduce our idle consumption or does UPS only use battery for idle consumption? Why did manufacturer select appliance as default?
I agree. Seems like if you're trying to save money by moving loads off-grid, but you have the grid configured as a backup, why would you want to add the load to the grid? Doesn't make any sense. In regards to APP vs UPS, I honestly couldn't tell you if it changed the consumption or not. At first I thought it did, but then after some time and reviewing things again, each time you switch between APP vs UPS there's a click and it seems to "power cycle" for lack of better terms. So it seems to switch between output modes on that reset and that COULD be what's affecting the consumption at that moment. Then over time it seems to grow again. Case and point, so near the end of the video I was showing only what, 20-30W draw from the battery? I'm now back up to 67W draw. So I can't say that the APP vs UPS does anything at all w/ consumption. That's another reason why I said that was an observation that I didn't understand. The only reason why I can assume the mfg set APP as the default is because it accepts a wider voltage range for AC Input. Trying to be as "inclusive as possible" for sales... Either way, I switched to UPS and it's sped up my transfer times between grid and battery.
I have a question also. What version is of the raspberry pie are you using and do you have to have the lastest version to run solar assistant. I want to build my own
Explain this one: EG4 6000EX - Load: 13W PV: 184W Grid: 0W (no grid connection) Battery: 0W -Battery currently at 58% If I'm taking in 184W and have a 13W load, shouldn't I be putting somewhere around 171W into the battery? Ok, subtract 90W for overhead 171-90 = 81. Where's the 81W going?
Yeah, that's a tough one. Is the 90W overhead a measured figure or just what the manual says? I've found in quite a few instances that the number in the manual is a "ballpark" figure. It can be different per inverter. Still, I doubt it would be 81W more in consumption. Do you have any other DC devices connected to your system?
If your inverter is always on and supplying power, consumption shouldn’t be matter at all, just add extra panel to compensate the consumption through out the day…
I have both 6500 on standby charging batteries currently. Batteries are fully charged. 0% draw. Will ramp up to 84 watts for a few seconds and then go back to 0. But batteries are 100%. Yes they pull a lot of power but for the price this is what we get. Have a friend of mine using dual Victron Quattros 5k each and they pull enough that he turns them off when traveling and use a small inverter for fridge. We are in rvs. So no free lunch here regardless of cost
Yeah when your in standby you’ll have significantly less power usage, especially when the batteries are full. So do you use your system just as a backup?
I made them. Just looks so ouch more professional. I bought some 10’ sections of 1”, 3/4” and 1/2”. I used the 3/4” for the PV lines to the circuit breaker box, then I used 1” for the battery and AC lines. I was able to use 1/2” for the PV lines. You should be able to see a close up shot of the conduits in my Replacement Inverter video. ruclips.net/video/BPk9qF5cJzA/видео.html
This is one of the reasons I'm not interested in AIO. Everyone is buying into them, but the idle consumption is RIDICULOUS when you need a dedicated 5kw battery just to keep 2 units running for a day. Standalone inverters use a fraction of the idle current, even the mega cheep ones.
Yeah there's definitely some compromises made when you go with an AIO unit, one being the fact that you have a lot of different components that have to work together, not just on their own. You just have to decide if the single unit package overcomes those compromises in your specific environment. My 12v system had a very low idle consumption, and it didn't need fans running all the time, which was nice. If they had a way to have passive cooling and only active when needed, that would cut down significantly.
@@AdamDeLayDIY I have a 48v 5000w inverter that idles at 13.5w, and is quiet without the fans running constantly like you mentioned. Thanks for the video.
You have to be very careful when using the Adc when using clamp-on amp-meters. Because they rely on the magnetic field around the wire they are also sensitive to the earth's magnetic field. In order to achieve a more accurate measurement it is necessary to clamp the meter around the wire, stop all current in the wire, then zero the meter. The earth's field will influence the reading significantly when you face the meter to the left to zero it then rotate the meter so it faces to the right to make another measurement. Just be aware that you are about at the limit of the ability of these amp-meters to measure.
It's true that there is some influence on those meters, but unless you are holding the jaws open, or you have an extremely cheap meter, the earth's Magnetic field will not have that much of an influence on the meter as it is a closed magnetic loop. I am unable to detect any of the earth's magnetic field on my $438 Fluke meter!!! Even measured with a shut, the to units that I have been working with for my friend and partner, on his system, the 2 units draw 102.9 and 103.1 watt's of idle current!!! They are of a very poor design, and I am quite frankly sorry that I recommended them to him, but they were cheap for their rated power handling. But I guess it just shows, you get what you pay for!!
@@Brokendiode I agree with some of what you said. which model of Fluke do you have? Mr De Lay is using an inexpensive clamp meter and I noticed that he was zeroing the current before clamping it around the wire in question. As I commented, trying to be helpful, it is best to clamp the meter onto the wire and zero it when no current is flowing. Then when the wire is energized, a reasonable accurate current measurement can be made. Did you note that the meter did not indicate zero before Mr. De Lay clamped it to the wire? As I said: just my observation and trying to be helpful.
look at the power coming in from PV and what’s going out to your loads. About 89% makes it to your loads. My 12K does about 96% to the loads. I guess I got what I paid for with the 6500EX pieces of junk.
Ultimately I would expect them to have the same consumption if there weren’t any additional electrical changes between units. At least within a couple percent of each other.
Solarks are made in China. Scheiders are made in China. I don’t think the manufacturers geographical location necessarily affects its performance. I believe he’s just documenting his experiences with the inverters to help others.
@@GavinStoneDIY yeah that’s why Sol-ark if you get a balance on the phases it turns off so dark is only the best inverter if it’s grid teid schneider is emerican design and 20 years on there belt
@@solarandwindinsouthtexasda1473 don’t get me wrong. I’m definitely not a fan of EG4’s. I’m just saying nearly all of them are made In China. Solark has had issues with some of their models yes. Apparently the 15k is a really nice inverter. Not hearing as many complaints about imbalances between phases. Schneider has kept their design fairly simple. There is something to be said for simplicity. Anyway, they are all Chinese. You’d be better saying the eg4’s are low cost or cheaply made. I’d probably go for that. 😉
@@GavinStoneDIY i cont talk bad about Schneider because I have never owned one but the sol-ark yes I owned a12k and if you run the microwave and the toster it will live you in the dark I only had it for 2 months and I returned because I run my house complet whit a samlex 3012 evo no sentral a/c now problem for the last 5 years
Every lv6548 no matter the brand will consume almost 100w each inverter on idle, that is the load that you see, inverter circuits consume electricity to be able to work, the switching circuit, feed back loop and control will consume power also the cooling system. Most important the sine wave needs to be generated at all times not only when you connect the loads. That is the energy need to work on the inverter. In ideal world circuit will not have losses and 100% energy in ,will be 100% energy out after conversion. That is why they tell you the efficiency of the inverter because we are not in an ideal world. You are not missing anything just don't have enough knowledge in electronics and circuit engineering design. The inverter also will keep pulling power from the battery even if it is connected to the utility because if he needs to swap sources the feedback and control loop needs to keep operating during the switching process. And the new version since it has a higher input voltage the circuit will need to handle more power.
Thanks for the comment. Your the only person I’ve ever heard say that every lv6548 will draw around 100w idle load. In fact there’s people that commended on this very video that their lv6548 idle consumption was very different. The thing that bothers me about the battery draw is that I was told by SS that when in grid-bypass, the idle consumption gets pulled from the grid, and yet there’s still a draw on the battery. If the idle consumption is being pulled from the grid, then when your in grid-bypass mode, your idle consumption is actually increasing by 40% due to the additional draw from the battery.
That's great in theory, except it just is attempting to mask the issue that you're draining an additional 800W (approx) out of your batteries over a 12 hour time period AFTER the fact that you switched over to grid power due to having a low SOC. You have to now plan for that additional drain on your batteries after the fact when you're told that when you have AC In, all idle consumption is transferred over to the grid.
Thanks for putting this video together. I have two different versions of the LV6548 on my bench currently with very different idle consumption amounts and was curious how it compared to the EG4 model (which is what led me here). Got my questions answered! 🙂
Thanks Mike! Been watching your channel for years and you've been a big help to me, so I'm glad I can return the favor in some small manner.
From my discussions with other people, the LVs have a better idle consumption than the 6500s.
I’ve actually been told by SS that the consumption can be anywhere from 80-120w (but I haven’t been able to find out what can cause such drastic swings in consumption).
@@AdamDeLayDIY Not sure why it would vary like that unless it's based on ambient temperature thus causing different fan speeds? I'm working on a video of the new LV6548V and the idle consumption is through the roof vs the original LV6548 - 110W for ONE inverter! Ridiculous. That's what got me looking...
@@LithiumSolar All I’ve been able to get out of them so far is that some of the units have different internal boards which can affect the idle consumption (trying to find out what boards have changed). I know the first units I had, which were one of the original models, had an idle consumption of 70-74w. The newer units I have now have jumped up between 89-94w.
I’ve actually been waiting to see a review on the 6548V. I’ve heard there have been a lot of “flickering light” issues like the 6500s. Seems like both the idle consumption and the flickering lights have to deal with the change in mppt boards to allow for the higher PV voltage.
110v though is making me feel a little better about my 89-94v though…only a little though. I miss my 70v…well, let’s be honest, I miss my 20 something consumption from my 12v inverter…
In my opinion the idle consumption is higher then the manual because they are still using the stats from the old manual. And that is based off the original 6500 inverters. They have larger fans in these inverters plus whatever higher voltage capacity hardware they installed. So that may not be as efficient. Most of the manual was just a copy from the mpp version when I looked at mine.
Same manufacture 😂 duh
@@warzoneclips2285 voltronics, yes. Supposedly anyway. But they could at least update the manual to reflect the changes they’ve made. That was my point.
All they changed was the mppt board and the terminal blocks now
@@warzoneclips2285 they are running completely different firmware altogether and they’ve removed the bonding screw. And potentially other things. All of which potentially effect the ways in which you should wire the unit and it’s performance. Some of this is reflected in the manual and some isn’t. My LV’s use 71 watts idle consumption.
Odd thing is the idle consumption is different between my old units and new ones. I asked SS about it and just last night I was informed that additional internal boards where changed in these revisions which could account for the higher idle consumption. I’m waiting for a better explanation to see if it’s actually true though…
Thanks for the video and introducing me to Solar Assistant. Although, I probably don't really want to know how poorly my EG4 6500 system is performing ;-)
You're welcome! It's amazing all the data it can show you!
Your videos are getting really good man!
Thank you very much for putting this information out there most videos I see don't cover this because there trying to get affiliate commission. 🍻
Thanks! That’s why I’m sharing them. I see a lot of things talked about in the forums, but nothing really on YT. I actually tried to get set up as an affiliate with SS. I think they saw my videos and decided not to respond… 😁
@@AdamDeLayDIY the price of being an honest guy.
@@Roll2Videos doesn’t bother me one bit!
@@AdamDeLayDIY That's probably a good thing.
@@sh839c yup
My epever have idl 21 watts.
Am very happy with it, i had two chinees inverters and they used in idl 90 to 100 watts, so i have to compensates.with 3 extra solar panels, i am fully offgrid
My MPP LV6548's, which are the same machine, drew 65w each idle. You can drop it down a bit by turning off the light in your parameter settings, and also set it to energy saver mode (assuming the firmware on the EG4 is similar).
Thanks for commenting. Nice to hear of a comparison between the 6548s.
So I did turn off the light bar and the backlight of the displays (which I normally keep off anyways) and it might have dropped a single watt. There wasn't much draw there at all.
Unfortunately the 6500s don't have an energy saver mode. EG4 must have had that disabled or removed for some reason.
Thanks for adding to the body of information.
The higher open-circuit PV voltage (500V vs 250V) of the solar charge converter has a price in terms of idle power draw.
I would agree with you except for the fact that the first batch of 6500s that I had only had a 70-74w idle consumption. The newer revisions are now 89-94w (and I’ve been told in some instances up to 120w).
Hey all .
Off topic a little. Wanted to share something with our 2- 6500 ex’s
Things have been going very well as of spring 2023 . We added 10 more panels for a total of 40 . Using all 4 charge controller inputs. As well as adding 6 more EG4 batteries for 12 total.
All was working fantastic. Until about 2 weeks ago the weather pattern changed and we’ve had a few cloudy days. I monitor battery charge daily and noticed the batteries were only about half.
( ok expected as it’s been cloudy) . However I noticed when the sun was out in full. Even light loads on the inverters. Each was only charging 20 amps or less. With the batteries at half .
I’ve been stumped as previously similar situation each inverter would charge 90 amps or more .
I happen to scroll through settings. And for some reason the main inverter switched itself from (EG4 ) battery selection to user . Have no idea why.
Changed back to EG4
And charging went back to normal 85-90 amps per inverter .
These things sure have their quirks
I've heard of this happening several times. I can't recall if there was ever a resolution though. I know there were some firmware versions in the past which had some problems with settings changing. Do you know what firmware version you're running on your inverters?
These inverters have a lot of issues, and I am sorry that I recommend to my friend and partner, we've noticed the flickering problem to, but haven't even gotten into dealing with that yet. The first major issue is when operating from the grid and the batteries are charged and floating, that goofy charger has a problem, apparently it is incapable of going to the floating voltage of the batteries so it cycles on and off to keep from over charging the batteries, so I found out quite by accdent that as it does this, it creates as high as a 140 volt spike on the AC mains. What alerted me to this problem was that I had one of these units hooked up to one of the battery banks that I had just received, and was charging and balancing the pack, and the pack had just reached the float voltage and the active balancer was in the process of getting all of the cells in balance. I left the room, and went into the kitchen to start making my dinner, and I have one of those PIC induction cook top 's from New Wave, so I started to boil water, as I was making Spaghetti, and needed to boil the noodles, but my induction cook top, just would not boil the water, it kept starting and stopping, and I almost threw it out in the trash, because I thought it was failing, but I noticed that the light over the stove was flickering just slightly and I already knew that that induction cooker would not operate on a modified sign wave inverter, it had to be a pure sign wave inverter, so just on a hunch I got out my fluke scope meter, and connected in across the line, and there was this very sharp spike every time that inverter would cycle, and I even tried it at my Neighbor's house, that happens to be on the same pad mount transformer as me and as long as I am on the same phase as the EG4 inverter it would not work at his house either!!! Even though the spike was not as strong only about 46 volts even the transformer was unable to completely block the spike. So needless to say I am not very impressed with these inverters, although they do have some pretty impressive starting power, my buddy has had several over current trips on these inverters, but as long as the hot water, and or the dryer is not running, they will most of the time start up there 9 ton heat pump that has a 161 amp industry very impressive!!
But we have problems with them shutting down randomly during the night, and when you go out to check them, they are both dark, just as if you had turned them off, but both power buttons are still in, but cycling them brings them back on line as if nothing is rong and they have no errors showing?????
And then there's the flickering lights! I just think there's too many problems, and I don't think a software update is going to fix all of them 😕
Seems like you have quite the laundry list of problems. Have you talked with Signature Solar about these issues?
Not sure what could be causing the voltage spike. Only thing that comes to me about the shutdowns would be battery disconnects. Wonder if the WatchPower logs would show anything?
I know I saw someone comment on the forum about random shutdowns. Seems like it might have been a hardware issue and their units were replaced.
I need to check my Growatt 3000, but I know those EG4 "rebranded" all in one units have been troublesome for everyone who uses them. I would go with a Schnider or Victron Multiplus, I blame the firmware on them.
I would love to be able to say it’s a firmware thing, because updating the firmware is a whole lot easier to fix than hardware issues.
I had one of the first iterations that has since been replaced. it had an idle consumption of 145 watts. It was pretty hard to swallow
@@stephenfuller2936 is that the current consumption rating or from the original units?
I just checked and I have 998 active youtube subscriptions. Yours and a handful of others are the ones I find myself checking for new uploads on a daily basis. That should tell you something and tells me to get a life.
Thanks! Don’t know why your looking at mine though….😁
I tend to do the same thing with my subscriptions as well. Keep looking for the little red dot in the app to see if I have something new to watch.
90W is what I see on my off grid shop system. 89% of the power coming in goes out to the loads. I got spoiled with seeing 96% with my 12K’s!
Crazy!
are they separating the inverter idle load and the total unit idle load? when you shut the inverters off, the fans seem to be using the balance over the stated inverter load. it sounds like its just poorly written/translated possibly? aside from being a generally poor efficiency too
It's really hard to say.
During the day at 100% SOC with your grid AC input breaker off, what does SA indicate for the PV input vs load. For instance, mine reads 712W PV and 401W load at 1530 on a cloudy day. Thinking of this inverter's PV DC to AC conversion efficiency; manual say 93%.
I think it’s gonna be hard to be exact without having meters on each individual piece of the system. Solar assistant does not update all of the values at the exact same time. It can only update based on when it receives new information from the remote devices. The inverters seem to be significantly slower in updating then the smart shunt. It’ll probably also depend on the individual idle consumption of the inverters as well.
I turned off my AC in, and I took a screenshot of my Solar Assistant display.
372w load
556w pv
+25w into battery
Adding the load, battery and idle consumption gives me more power that what the PV was showing as coming in. So obviously the inverter data was off. Unfortunately you can’t quickly look at the displays of the inverters to see all the info you need to make the proper calculations.
Thanks Adam! Thats crazy to know. That means for my six inverter system, I am expending nearly 8,000 watts during off solar hours. Thats 1.6 batteries or 230 kWh if using grid power. This explains why I cant make it through the night. Using the grid for the idle power is a other dumb design decision, particularly withouf our knowledge or ability to configure this. Need a way to cycle four down in after hours.
Please clarify the setting options of appliance and UPS. I was nodding off toward the end and didnt follow how this might reduce our idle consumption or does UPS only use battery for idle consumption? Why did manufacturer select appliance as default?
I agree. Seems like if you're trying to save money by moving loads off-grid, but you have the grid configured as a backup, why would you want to add the load to the grid? Doesn't make any sense.
In regards to APP vs UPS, I honestly couldn't tell you if it changed the consumption or not. At first I thought it did, but then after some time and reviewing things again, each time you switch between APP vs UPS there's a click and it seems to "power cycle" for lack of better terms. So it seems to switch between output modes on that reset and that COULD be what's affecting the consumption at that moment. Then over time it seems to grow again. Case and point, so near the end of the video I was showing only what, 20-30W draw from the battery? I'm now back up to 67W draw. So I can't say that the APP vs UPS does anything at all w/ consumption. That's another reason why I said that was an observation that I didn't understand.
The only reason why I can assume the mfg set APP as the default is because it accepts a wider voltage range for AC Input. Trying to be as "inclusive as possible" for sales... Either way, I switched to UPS and it's sped up my transfer times between grid and battery.
@@AdamDeLayDIY Thanks so much Adam! Your scientific discovery is very helpful to the community!!
I have a question also. What version is of the raspberry pie are you using and do you have to have the lastest version to run solar assistant. I want to build my own
I bought a Raspberry Pi 3B off eBay and it’s running the latest version of Solar Assistant.
Keep them coming
Thanks! 👍🏼
Just wanted to comment about the issues shown around the 14 to 15 minute mark.
My Chinese 3000 watt LF inverter draws 120 watt by itself in idle, but my samlex 3012 evo LF inverter draws 25 watt but that in a American inverter
I have two eg4 6500ex 5 months old for sale . If someone could point me in right direction on were to list for sale would greatly appreciated it.
I would list them on the DIY Solar Forum: diysolarforum.com/forums/inverters-and-all-in-one-units-for-sale.41/
So they understated idle consumption. I'm shocked
🤣🤣🤣
Having this discovery this mo 😂
I need a couple more batteries now 😢
🤣. Age old problem. Always need more batteries, then more panels, then more batteries. I’m still trying to find the balance…
Explain this one: EG4 6000EX - Load: 13W PV: 184W Grid: 0W (no grid connection) Battery: 0W -Battery currently at 58% If I'm taking in 184W and have a 13W load, shouldn't I be putting somewhere around 171W into the battery? Ok, subtract 90W for overhead 171-90 = 81. Where's the 81W going?
Yeah, that's a tough one. Is the 90W overhead a measured figure or just what the manual says? I've found in quite a few instances that the number in the manual is a "ballpark" figure. It can be different per inverter. Still, I doubt it would be 81W more in consumption.
Do you have any other DC devices connected to your system?
If your inverter is always on and supplying power, consumption shouldn’t be matter at all, just add extra panel to compensate the consumption through out the day…
Sure. Just making an observation that the “newer” units draw more power than the older ones for some odd reason.
I have both 6500 on standby charging batteries currently. Batteries are fully charged. 0% draw. Will ramp up to 84 watts for a few seconds and then go back to 0. But batteries are 100%. Yes they pull a lot of power but for the price this is what we get. Have a friend of mine using dual Victron Quattros 5k each and they pull enough that he turns them off when traveling and use a small inverter for fridge. We are in rvs. So no free lunch here regardless of cost
Yeah when your in standby you’ll have significantly less power usage, especially when the batteries are full.
So do you use your system just as a backup?
@@AdamDeLayDIY for now. Waiting on warmer temps to finish hook up.
The word approximate is key
In regards to what?
That pulsing is the charger cycling! Read my first comment!
What pulsing? I did read your first comment.
Heya Adam pick your brain for a moment. Did you make those EMT connections to your inverters or buy them? They are just too slick to not do.
I made them. Just looks so ouch more professional.
I bought some 10’ sections of 1”, 3/4” and 1/2”. I used the 3/4” for the PV lines to the circuit breaker box, then I used 1” for the battery and AC lines. I was able to use 1/2” for the PV lines.
You should be able to see a close up shot of the conduits in my Replacement Inverter video.
ruclips.net/video/BPk9qF5cJzA/видео.html
@@AdamDeLayDIY thanks for the reply and your time. luckily I have some EMT laying around from my garden hoops for insect netting.
@@Capoe3 good luck!
90W is what I see on my off grid shop system.
This is one of the reasons I'm not interested in AIO. Everyone is buying into them, but the idle consumption is RIDICULOUS when you need a dedicated 5kw battery just to keep 2 units running for a day. Standalone inverters use a fraction of the idle current, even the mega cheep ones.
Yeah there's definitely some compromises made when you go with an AIO unit, one being the fact that you have a lot of different components that have to work together, not just on their own. You just have to decide if the single unit package overcomes those compromises in your specific environment.
My 12v system had a very low idle consumption, and it didn't need fans running all the time, which was nice. If they had a way to have passive cooling and only active when needed, that would cut down significantly.
@@AdamDeLayDIY I have a 48v 5000w inverter that idles at 13.5w, and is quiet without the fans running constantly like you mentioned. Thanks for the video.
You have to be very careful when using the Adc when using clamp-on amp-meters. Because they rely on the magnetic field around the wire they are also sensitive to the earth's magnetic field. In order to achieve a more accurate measurement it is necessary to clamp the meter around the wire, stop all current in the wire, then zero the meter. The earth's field will influence the reading significantly when you face the meter to the left to zero it then rotate the meter so it faces to the right to make another measurement. Just be aware that you are about at the limit of the ability of these amp-meters to measure.
It's true that there is some influence on those meters, but unless you are holding the jaws open, or you have an extremely cheap meter, the earth's Magnetic field will not have that much of an influence on the meter as it is a closed magnetic loop. I am unable to detect any of the earth's magnetic field on my $438 Fluke meter!!! Even measured with a shut, the to units that I have been working with for my friend and partner, on his system, the 2 units draw 102.9 and 103.1 watt's of idle current!!! They are of a very poor design, and I am quite frankly sorry that I recommended them to him, but they were cheap for their rated power handling. But I guess it just shows, you get what you pay for!!
@@Brokendiode I agree with some of what you said. which model of Fluke do you have?
Mr De Lay is using an inexpensive clamp meter and I noticed that he was zeroing the current before clamping it around the wire in question.
As I commented, trying to be helpful, it is best to clamp the meter onto the wire and zero it when no current is flowing. Then when the wire is energized, a reasonable accurate current measurement can be made. Did you note that the meter did not indicate zero before Mr. De Lay clamped it to the wire? As I said: just my observation and trying to be helpful.
look at the power coming in from PV and what’s going out to your loads. About 89% makes it to your loads. My 12K does about 96% to the loads. I guess I got what I paid for with the 6500EX pieces of junk.
Yeah, it’s not as efficient
What do you expect from Chinese inverter?
Ultimately I would expect them to have the same consumption if there weren’t any additional electrical changes between units. At least within a couple percent of each other.
Solarks are made in China. Scheiders are made in China. I don’t think the manufacturers geographical location necessarily affects its performance. I believe he’s just documenting his experiences with the inverters to help others.
@@GavinStoneDIY yeah that’s why Sol-ark if you get a balance on the phases it turns off so dark is only the best inverter if it’s grid teid schneider is emerican design and 20 years on there belt
@@solarandwindinsouthtexasda1473 don’t get me wrong. I’m definitely not a fan of EG4’s. I’m just saying nearly all of them are made In China. Solark has had issues with some of their models yes. Apparently the 15k is a really nice inverter. Not hearing as many complaints about imbalances between phases. Schneider has kept their design fairly simple. There is something to be said for simplicity. Anyway, they are all Chinese. You’d be better saying the eg4’s are low cost or cheaply made. I’d probably go for that. 😉
@@GavinStoneDIY i cont talk bad about Schneider because I have never owned one but the sol-ark yes I owned a12k and if you run the microwave and the toster it will live you in the dark I only had it for 2 months and I returned because I run my house complet whit a samlex 3012 evo no sentral a/c now problem for the last 5 years
Check out what happens when the solar is turned on with no load. You might be surprised
What mode? Inverting/Grid-bypass/standby?
USB, sub and I think even sbu
I know what your saying you only have 2 inverters I will have 4 of them running that is a lot of waisted watts.
Just buy eight extra panels.
Every lv6548 no matter the brand will consume almost 100w each inverter on idle, that is the load that you see, inverter circuits consume electricity to be able to work, the switching circuit, feed back loop and control will consume power also the cooling system. Most important the sine wave needs to be generated at all times not only when you connect the loads. That is the energy need to work on the inverter. In ideal world circuit will not have losses and 100% energy in ,will be 100% energy out after conversion. That is why they tell you the efficiency of the inverter because we are not in an ideal world.
You are not missing anything just don't have enough knowledge in electronics and circuit engineering design. The inverter also will keep pulling power from the battery even if it is connected to the utility because if he needs to swap sources the feedback and control loop needs to keep operating during the switching process. And the new version since it has a higher input voltage the circuit will need to handle more power.
Thanks for the comment.
Your the only person I’ve ever heard say that every lv6548 will draw around 100w idle load. In fact there’s people that commended on this very video that their lv6548 idle consumption was very different.
The thing that bothers me about the battery draw is that I was told by SS that when in grid-bypass, the idle consumption gets pulled from the grid, and yet there’s still a draw on the battery. If the idle consumption is being pulled from the grid, then when your in grid-bypass mode, your idle consumption is actually increasing by 40% due to the additional draw from the battery.
Yayyy I’m the first viewer 🎉
Just add two more panels to the 40-60 panels you need to run a typical off grid home and don’t sweat it.
That's great in theory, except it just is attempting to mask the issue that you're draining an additional 800W (approx) out of your batteries over a 12 hour time period AFTER the fact that you switched over to grid power due to having a low SOC. You have to now plan for that additional drain on your batteries after the fact when you're told that when you have AC In, all idle consumption is transferred over to the grid.
Manufacturer lying on their consumption? Color me surprised... ^^
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Buy a Schneider inverter and stop complaining about one of the cheapest inverters you can get one the market
complaining or not its still useful information.
Just sharing my observations because it seems like the only other videos I’ve found on these units are load tests.