Who's Really Threatening Japan? - Shogun Season 1 Eps 2 Reaction
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 19 мар 2024
- Jay and Adam react, review, riff, and rate the second, secret spilling, episode of the Hulu smash hit Shogun.
Discord: / discord
Merch: previewdmerchandise.com
Patreon - / previewd
Jay’s Twitch - / thatkingbunny
-----
Bonus Action (pReview'd's DnD Actual Play Show): / @bonusactionrpg
pReview'd Gaming Channel: / @previewdgaming
pReview'd Podcast Fix It! - open.spotify.com/show/3z6aGRY...
#shogun #shogunfx #reaction #reactionvideo 
Кино
I'm pleased to report all 5 episodes released so far have maintained the level of quality. Everything about this show has been fantastic so far.
Who knew The Normies were a compromise to a play for power? This show is so very compelling and makes me curious about Japanese History.
that division is also why even today Brazil speaks Portuguese rather than Spanish
What's more, if you look at the border between Papua New Guinea and Indonesia, it's sliced right along the Treaty of Zaragoza line.
I'm amused (and somewhat alarmed) at how quickly Adam picked up on all the political intrigue and grasped Toranaga's machinations. Whereas Jay looked confused even after Adam explained everything to him.
22:00 Should be noted at the time Great Britain didn't have any colonies and didn't start empire building for another 100 years or so.
"Have you a flag?" 😉
Well this is 15 years post Roanoke and only 7 years prior to the establishment of Jamestown.
Ireland would beg to differ
Two treaties make up the story Blackthorn is telling Toranaga, the Treaty of Tordesillas and the Treaty of Saragossa. They established exclusive trade spheres for Spain and Portugal. The rest of Europe ignored that idea. This story is set 12 years after the Spanish Armada tried to invade England and depose Elizabeth I. England is helping the Dutch throw off Spanish rule of the Dutch which is why Blackthorn's ship is working for them to fight the Spanish. He is a priveteer- a mercenary- not a pirate, although the Spanish and Portuguese claim he is a pirate because of that rebel government he is working for and the treaties saying no one else belongs in these waters. In 1600, England is the underdog fighting the pushy superpowers.
Was this when they implemented 'Sakoku'? It seems to be around the same time.
@@jodyharrison6186In a few more years. If Wiki is right, 1603 is when sakoku is instituted by the Shogunate.
@@jodyharrison6186
In historical fact,
Japan became isolated in 1641 when Ieyasu(Toranaga)'s grandson Iemitsu became the shogun.
The feudal lord of Nagasaki in southern Japan was planning to conquer the Philippines and needed money.
He imposed heavy taxes on the people of his territory, which caused them to rebel.
Since there were many Christians in the rebellion, they asked Portugal for help.
(Nagasaki had a thriving trade with Portugal, and was the only place where Christianity existed at the time.)
Iemitsu thought Christians were dangerous and expelled the Portuguese.
@@maemai-iq4hr Sakoku was not a complete isolation, but trade was severely limited during that time. They still traded with China and Korea and after the Portuguese were expelled the only Europeans that Japan still traded with were the Dutch. Hostility towards Christianity in Japan have existed long before Iemitsu's reign, discrimination against Christianity started under Toyotomi Hideyoshi's reign in the 1580s and they continued to be persecuted including the 26 Martyrs of Japan who were crucified in 1597, and by 1630 Christianity was completely driven underground in Japan.
The treaty that they talk about between Spain and Portugal I believe is the Tordesillas Treaty signed in 1494.
Although this is historical fiction some things are based in reality.
It's more in the realm of most than some IMO, pretty much the entire central conceit of the show (and book) is actual history. Some characters are merged versions of real people, and they all were given different names, but pretty much every single person is based on someone and their actions, and every major major event or historical thing talked about is something that actually happened.
It is actually the treaty of Zaragoza in 1529 which is an update on the more known Tordesillas, setting the line in Asia
The Treaty of Tordesillas split the Atlantic. Its the 1529 Treaty of Zaragoza that split the Pacific and finally decided Japan's fate as a Portuguese claim. Its why Blackthorne draws 2 lines instead of one and then says "70 years ago they signed a treaty". The show is set in the year 1600 so whilst Tordesillas is still relevant, he's referring more to Zaragosa.
A lot of research was done by Clavell, IIRC. He wrote a novel, but based a lot of it on actual historical events. Such as Williams Adams arriving in 1600, and becoming connected to Tokugawa Ieyasu. Blackthorne is Williams, basically, and Toranaga is Tokugawa, basically.
All of the characters are based on real life figures, Toronaga/Tokugawa, Toyotomi Hideyoshi/Taiko, Ishido/Ishida, Karoda/Oda Nobunaga
Adam's right. Blackthorn is based on William Adams, a real life English pilot that came to Japan in 1600.
Check his wiki entry after episode 10, the guy's career was nuts
For me, this ep is where the show really starts to kick into high gear. Ep 1 was great, but this is where the real meat and gravy hits the rice
The reason why the launch both Eps 1 and 2 together
This is 100% my favorite show so far this year. Fantastic.
“My dream armor is spiders. I don’t sleep well”. Is brilliant 😂😂. MST3K type Riff right there
Regarding John's dislike of baths, there was at this time in England a correlation between bathing in dirty water and 'the flux', which was a deadly form of dysentery. The Japanese nobility, of course, eschew dirty water. And to them, cleanliness was not next to godliness, it WAS godliness.
The translator scene was like the Gollum scene in The Two Towers where Gollum and Smeagol have a conversation. It was perfectly set up, then they start the cuts showing them having a conversation. I loved it.
With the Treaty of Tordesillas and the Treaty of Zaragoza, Spain and Portugal did agree to split the world in half, and each side would have sole rule over the non-Christian lands in their claimed hemisphere.
Warlord Jay would be like a teddy bear with an army. Adorably intimidating, like I know he can order my execution but I still want to hug him
James Clavell painstakingly researched his novel. There might be some literary license in the show, but the book is very accurate. The Spanish and Portuguese, with the Popes blessing, did indeed essentially split the world between them. The Catholics, spearheaded by the Jesuits, were highly militant in pursuing their colonial goals
This "feels" like "Game of Thrones" because George R. R. Martin has said Clavell's book was one of his influences.
More on that as y'all catch up to us. Episode 5 has some characters that clearly helped define some details of some people.
Brah, FOR REAL, real? Now everything has come full circle, this...AND Dune!
I knew you guys would love this show, so glad you're reacting to it.
PS: "Bird coat?" "Ca-CAW!"
Toranaga-sama is fixing himself up a big bowl of Flutie Flakes
With a big ol’ spoon!
Love this show so much, it just kept getting better and better. They do exposition really well and treat viewers with some respect so that they can grasp these details on their own. Toranaga's smirk at "Unless I win" was just subtle enough to go by unnoticed, but I think that's when John became more than just a barbarian to him
20:37 I’ve never felt more seen than I did by the Discworld reference 🤣❤️
RIGHT?!?
Best show so far this year and it will probably be my all time favorite show in years. It's so damn good.
Great Holy Grail reference haha
The tordesillas treaty is the one signed by portugal and Spain dividing the world in in 1429 and the aded the zaragoza line that has Japan in the Portuguese side in 1529. The Portuguese first arrive in Japan as early as 1543.
Watched in the 80's, and read the book as a young lad.
Watching again now and I am so invested! Also have the book on audible and am trying desperately to not "read ahead" so i can keep everything in line.
For instance, Blackthorn spent 4 days in prison, and got a LOT of information from the priest, who assumed him to be Spanish. Also taught him some words and phases.
(spoken as Blll Lumburg from office space) Oh, if you could watch faster, so we can talk about all the greatness the rest of us have seen, that would be great, yeah...
Yoooo I can’t get enough of that translation scene. When I first noticed it, I about leapt off the couch.
18:00 bahahaha “you’ve met with a terrible fate, haven’t you?” 😁
Almost everything you see in this show up to this point did happen at some point during this period, only the names have been changed to keep people guessing about what is going to happen, and it also gave the author and the showrunners some leeway to get creative with these characters.
Spain was unified with Portugal at this time period, and was the de facto superpower of the era, and only those two countries had a major presence overseas, as colonies and trade outposts were risky ventures and outrageously expensive. Portugal was making money selling Chinese goods (silk, porcelain, etc.) to Japan, while also selling European weapons, clocks, and glassware to Japan. The Ming Dynasty of China had closed trade to Japan due to the recent decades of warfare with the Japanese over their invasion of Korea during the Imjin War, and Portugal had exported some weapons to both sides, as well as provided some shipbuilding techniques to the Chinese allowing them to make heavier galleass vessels they used during some of the naval engagements (although Korea's naval exploits are better known and widely celebrated during that conflict). The Jesuits had a large presence around Nagasaki, and hundreds of thousands of Christian converts, and while they were at this time closely connected to the court of King Philip II of Spain, this relationship would not last. There is some argument as to whether their greater loyalties were to Spain or to the Papacy, but either way during this era King Philip was known as the Catholic Monarch, and he zealously pursued an evangelizing agenda against all non-Christians and rebellious Protestants.
The Dutch during this period were beginning to expand outwards, as they had knowledge acquired as vassals of Spain (and formerly the Holy Roman Empire) during this era, and had rebelled against them. They were helped by the English, in terms of money and weapons, and Queen Elizabeth provided what limited funds she could to needle the Spanish as much as possible. English sailors during this period had decades of experience in naval warfare, piracy, and coastal raiding, but England herself was much poorer than other European states (mainly exporting wool), and had no overseas colonies (and neither did France until six years later). English colonization would begin strictly as private endeavours undertaken by companies formed for those specific ventures, almost all of which would lose money and fail, and require government intervention to prevent mass starvation or the ruination of their investors. Scotland would try a state-funded colony in Panama that failed so completely and terribly that it bankrupted the entire country, and necessitate the Act of Union in 1707, merging it with England to create Great Britain.
Later on, Portugal and England would overcome their religious differences and become friendly and occasionally were allies against Spain or France in a multitude of wars.
Inter caetera, Treaty of Tordesillas and Treaty of Zaragoza which detail this arrangement are all 100% historical fact.
Whoohoo, more Shogun
In response to the collar, Jay, I quote from Blackadder the Second, "You look like a bird that's swallowed a plate."
"It's the latest fashion and I think it makes me look rather sexy actually" - " to another plate swallowing bird maybe" 🤣
A quick and easy Japanese lesson: The pronunciation "gun" in "Shogun" is closer to "goon" than "gun." So it sounds like "show goon."
The first two episodes were released together. Yes, dividing the world was in the history books.
The council has 2 Catholics and 3 non Catholics. The suspicion is that when non Catholic Toranaga is taken out, that leaves the regents split in two. However the Catholics have the weapons to take out Ishido, leaving a 2 to 1 majority of Catholics. Either the 3rd rubber stamps their play our he's gone too, leaving Japan in Catholic control when the heir, oops, has a "hunting accident" or is converted to Catholicism.
The Normies deep lore was such a good bit!
Yabushige's Jinbaori (his coat), is good, but wait till you see his armour in episode 3, i LOOOOOOOOOOVE his armour so fkn much
Glad to see you guys catching up. they get far more intense from here. pedal hits metal.
"My dream armor is just spiders. (I don't sleep well.)"
-Jay
Really recommend to read the book Jay. The show is great, but the book has even more space for subtlety and immersion. It is fantastic. James Clavell is such a good author that Shogun is only his third best book in my opinion after Noble House and Tai Pan and it is still a masterpiece.
Awesome episode!
This show is so f&*king good. Episodes 3-5 just keep ramping things up and get better by the episode.
Toranaga's rival is Ishido. Guys catch up its going ramp up next episode. I can't wait.
Guys, the 2 actors you mention that you recoginize (Father Dell'Aqua & Capt Ferreira) are both Portuguese Canadian actors who have been on a TON of shows; Paulino Nunes and Luis Ferreira. As a fellow Portuguese Canadian, these guys have always made our community extremely proud and I love the fact they are on this show
One thing bugs me about the Society of Jesus/Jesuit priests. Their group was the main order interacting with the Japanese. And, long before William Adams {the real Blackthorne}was stranded in 1600, they started wearing orange robes, because Japanese minks wore orange.
They did so much research, and the producers are so invested in as much accuracy as possible, I'm surprised that detail is wrong.
They wear orange in the book, too. I was surprised when they didn't in the show. It's an interesting choice for a show that's made - I think - mostly really solid choices. I wonder if they thought it would just read too silly to modern viewers, who can't seem to connect bright colors and drama well after two decades of media programming through desaturation.
@@dragontears They also wore orange in the mini-series. It was a BIG part of the Jesuit "acclimatization" program. Kinda like the Roman practice of letting conquered regions still have their native religions, as long as they were docile little slaves.
I have always thought, even back reading the novel, that Father Thomas would have given an accurate translation regardless.
For one thing, getting caught giving an intentionally faulty translation to a Daimyo would probably have fatal consequences.
But, once he saw Mariko/Maria was there, he definitely had no choice about it.
This show just does all the fucking that could possibly be done it is so awesome
Not-so-fun fact: James Clavell, who wrote the novel, was a prisoner of war in Japan's notorious Changi prison, from which many POWs didn't make it out.
And wrote a novelized version of his "stay" called King Rat
There is a reason why the first two episodes where released together 😉
It took me until halfway through this episode to realize the English-speaking parts are translated from Portuguese.
A whole lot is inspired by actual history. Spain and Japan literally "split" the world. They were the two major powers at the time. It had only been just over a decade since England had actually defeated the Spanish Armada in a surprise victory. Williams Adams was actually aboard one of the British Royal Navy ships.
Adams {and Blackthorne} was a pilot on a Dutch ship, because Holland was under the rule of either Spain or Portugal {I forget which} and England was supporting their struggle for independence.
Mariko is also based on real Japanese Lady who was also multi-lingual, like Adams/Blackthorne.
Treaty of Tordesillas ratified 1494 divided the world between the two major superpowers of the time Portugal and Spain. later the treaty of Zaragoza defined the pacific region between those powers.
22:01 well... it's 1600, England barely has a few outpost colonies in North America, Newfoundland and Roanoke which got disappeared. At this point John could very credibly say that England hasn't gone about conquering other lands outside Europe. They hadn't gotten nearly as far as the Spanish and Portuguese.... That comes later
Most of the characters are based on real people and the story is also largely based on real historical events too. Like you said Blackthorne was based on William Adams, while Torunaga is based on Tokugawa Ieyasu who established the Tokugawa shogunate that ruled Japan from 1603-1868. Ishido is based on Ishida Mitsunari, Mariko is roughly based on Hosokawa Gracia, Yabushige is based on Honda Masanobu etc. Some parts have been changed and dramatised, but for the most part the show is very accurate to Japanese history and culture.
Also based on true story. William Adams I think is his name. I Englishman that became a Samurai. I hope same show runners make a show about Yasuke who became a Aamurai under Oda Nobunaga
John Blackthrone is based off a Englishman named William Adams
the real guy is William addams, yep that was a very simple version of a real treaty, and hope they go a bit beyond the book. The real history is really cool.
Did you lads notice how when Mariko translates they DON'T establish the reliable translator and she DOES rephrase subtly. Watch again and see her agenda shape his words...
I mean the Portuguese and Spanish empires were massive. John was just trying to explain broad empirical motives while excluding the blooming English empire. At one point the big dogs were the spanish and Portuguese then the Dutch stole the Portuguese empire for themselves and the Spanish empire fell apart. Then Britain and France became the next top dots.
Title fix. "In The Japans"*
In 1600 Spain and Portugal are the two super powerful countries in the world, so they can "document" which asian countries belong to them
The Anglican chuch was created by Henry the 8th in 1534. England has been mostly Protestant and at odds with the Roman Catholic Chuch, including the Jesuits, or Society of Jesus, and the Roman Catholic countries for 66 years all of our main characters life, they have already fought wars about this.
Yes, the Dutch and England aren't necessarily the good guy's, but when they conquer someplace they don't use the excuse that the Pope gave it to them by devine right.
The kid wouldn’t be Shōgun , he would be Taikō. They are essential the same position, like the President/Prime Minister, under the Emporor. Shōgun is only given to high borns, in Toranaga’s case, he is a descendant of the Minowara clan, a former Shogunate.
Yes, it is correct regarding Spain and Portugal. Its called the Treaty of Tordesillas, signed in 1494 and endorsed by the Pope. So any Catholic nations were forced to recognize the treaty. At the time, only England did not recognize it, but that number grew as the Reformation took hold in the 1520's.
This is probably my favorite show on TV right now. Unfortunately, Disney has me so shell shocked I keep waiting for the shows producers to give this the Mandalorian Season 3 treatment...
22:12 'we don't go to other lands and push the people out' - you're right, they didn't do that. Unless you know something the rest of us don't. I think you're getting confused with the spanish.
There are TWO Christians on the council, not three, the gentleman who offered to kill Blackthorn and the leper. The other two, including Ishido, Toronaga's primary antagonist and the leader of the opposition, are anti- Christian, so much so that they want to enact an order to expel the Catholics priests at the very least from Japan.
I'm not sure where you came up with the number three.
This show is AMAZING!!!
Me by the end of this episode 😮🍿
10/10
Thanks for watching but ......🗣️ Jeopardy!!🙄
Lmao the normies pull was hilarious, well done Jay 🤣
Maybe you didn't find that the first episode had as strong of a "story hook" because you were literally joking around and not paying attention when key things were happening.
Like... you were literally having a laugh and joking around when the freaking captain killed himself...
Took me a long time but I figured out which period the show is about and who Hiroyuki Sanada is! OMFG this will be awesome!!
The end of the Sengoku period and the beginning of the Tokugawa Shogunate
And the book and most likely the series ends with The Battle of Sekeguhara
@@michaellockhart554 I am SO hyped for Sekigahara!!
What I found most interesting is that the two most influential Japanese actors of thier time each played Toronaga
Tosiro Mifune, in the 1980 version and Hiroyuki Sanada in 2024
The old Taiko was he supposed to be Hideyoshi Toyotomi 🤔
Brilliant!
Brilliant!
Brilliant!
復讐 Fukushū is Japanese for Vengeance 💪
Thank you!!!
motun-ju dorito
5:12 The Society of Jesus still exists - the Jesuits! That's what the SJ stands for after their names.
18:47 Medieval Japan experienced massive growth in population, but exact numbers are unknown. Professor of Japanese History, William Wayne Harris, puts it 17 million in the year 1600; Jean-Noël Biraben, a demographer, estimates 12 million; and the McEvady-Jones history book says 22 million.
I'm really excited you're doing this show. It just gets better and better.
It very much does. My mother has a cousin who is a Jesuit. He teaches medical ethics at Fordham's medical school. He also occasionally will get to take cruises for free by acting as the chaplain on the ship during the trip.
John Blackthorne is not the only character based on a real person. Most of the characters have a real world equivalent.
One of the cool things about this show is that they're speaking period appropriate Japanese. The scripts were written in English, translated into Japanese, and then updated again with the older form of Japanese. That's how dedicated they were to making this show.
The Society Of Jesus is still known to this day as Jesuits. Jesuits were, for the most part Portuguese and the Franciscans were mostly Spanish, the priest in the prison is Franciscan
This show can compete with Hotd in terms of quality and awesomeness ❤.
You guys talk too much during dialog,lol
..you can't miss a thing here on this show,every word means something
6/5🌟s!!!
😄
I'm a big fan of you guys , dude.
from 🇯🇵 🗾
Thanks to Jay and Adam! 🗾
You do know there will be noooo season 2 🤣
You guys are so far behind! Catch up!!! 😀
Damn y’all slow 😝
this show is badass..the main guy is soooo weird looking
You are so funny guys, but too much blabbering, "joking" and laughing for a series like this one. I'm out. Bye.