"The Codex -Astartes- is a set of rules. They guide us, shape us as -Ultramarines- gamers, teach us to place duty and honour above all. But how we live with those rules is the true test of a -Space Marine- gamers. And you (Games Workshop), have failed." - Captain Titus to James Workshop
I think that looking at functional efficiency through the narrative lens is definitely a key part of good rules design that GW sometimes flops hard with. Take for example how underwhelming marines on the tabletop are compared to their lore description - not the strength of marines as an army, but if the individual models. The angels of death just don’t seem all that deadly. I think having marines be a more elite army with fewer but more powerful models would be a better match to the lore.
It would be hilarious seeing Army rule breakdown for Sisters of Battle as for example their 3rd ed rules where a lot more complex and then in 4-5th editions was almost non-existent, to a very streamlined form in miracle dice that they have now.
As a CSM player yeah dark pacts is not a very narrative rule especially for my Nightlords what God am I not selling my soul too to today? It would be cool if we lost out on dark pacts but got to issue dread tests for our attacks, to show the malicious and spiteful nature of the sons of Curze. Don't get me wrong I enjoy auto wounding targets that are tough but it does diminish gameplay and makes certain units just all around good while diminishing others, it's just bad for internal balance.
No one has said it : a good rule is balanced, it is fair for both players, neither over powered or weak. We are here for the fun, and the fun must be shared ! edit : it is just something i add ; of course, i agree with all your points in the video.
Great content, I want to see explorations of all army rules and maybe some looks into how unit rules in 10th could’ve been better handled and not re-used in practically every army instead of making more unique rules for the units
I like how Horus Heresy does it: all the weapons have shared profiles, but it's the units themselves that make them good. Autoguns suck ass with Militia but when a Blackshield picks one up it's amazing. It's very easy to reason that an Astartes shoots better than an unaugmented human
Hey WhatThe40k, its a big ask but would you like to take a look or have a chat with me about game mechanics and rules for 40k? i have been playing a alternative ruleset for 40k that i have been creating and love talking about what to improve with it. Love watching your videos and you have always been straight to the point which i like.
Much as i hate to be that person, the melta gun on the dreadnought is actually that nosel hidden in the fist, not the big ass gun on the right arm. I know this cause I just built one. Looking at that image it’s very easy for someone to assume that you were saying the lascannon and melta were the same gun.
I appreciate the intention but you are incorrect. The Multi-melta profile on the Contemptor is in fact the weapon picture on the Dread's left arm. Which is, a Multi-melta (albeit a large one) type weapon, not a Lascannon.. The Contemptor cannot take an inbuilt meltagun in it's fist. That would be the Leviathan Dreadnough FYI.
@@WhatThe40k Yes and no. This might just be me thinking more in terms of Horus Heresy, but the in-built fist weapon on the Contemptor can be either a combi-bolter, flamer, plasma blaster, graviton gun, or meltagun as per the sprue. I understand that those options get pruned hard in vanilla though.
I've thought of a way dark pacts work for renegades. instead of praying to the dark gods for sustained hits, how about you load up experimental frag rounds? or AP rounds for lethals? and for melee, combat drugs are fairly common in the setting, be it a boost to their strength or speed for lethals or sustained respectively
Since you touched this subject and extrapolating a little bit, who else felt that the thousand sons felt underwhelming in SM2? Especially the lord of change "behavior/actions"...
Rules that focus on and encourage you to maneuver and position your minis on the board= good. Rules that make you pick things out of a book, or spend tiddy-wink points= bad Because it’s a miniatures game.
Yeah, a good example is world eaters. The bloodtithe may be considered worse. It felt more thematic. khorne does not care from wince the blood flows as longs as it flows
I feel that the dark pact mechanic should be a detachment rule. Probably for 2 or 3 detachment with some tweaks. The army rules should have been oath of hatred or the Wantons... Showing the flexibility with probably a negative return bit a better damage output. I play iron warriors, they couldn't give a rat's a** about allegeance. They see a demon, put that in an engine or a machine. That's it.
Ultimately, 40k needs to use dice with more sides. D6 gives so few options that there has to be very complex interactions of special rules that manipulate the dice rolls to get enough variety from them for a game with as many different units/weapons ect
I don't think dice are the problem in 40k. Many other wargames use d6s and managed to avoid 40k problems. Main thing is GW is focused not on creating a good experience but on selling as many miniatures as they can.
"The Codex -Astartes- is a set of rules. They guide us, shape us as -Ultramarines- gamers, teach us to place duty and honour above all. But how we live with those rules is the true test of a -Space Marine- gamers. And you (Games Workshop), have failed."
- Captain Titus to James Workshop
"What makes a good rule?
IF I WAS A BAD RULE, I WOULDN'T BE SITTIN HERE DISCUSSING IT WITH YOU NOW WOULD I?"
One cocked die, one wayward inch of movement, one errant reroll: and kablooey
I think that looking at functional efficiency through the narrative lens is definitely a key part of good rules design that GW sometimes flops hard with. Take for example how underwhelming marines on the tabletop are compared to their lore description - not the strength of marines as an army, but if the individual models. The angels of death just don’t seem all that deadly. I think having marines be a more elite army with fewer but more powerful models would be a better match to the lore.
Generally armies in the game should be much smaller and it would benefit the game greatly, but alas, sales must grow
It would be hilarious seeing Army rule breakdown for Sisters of Battle as for example their 3rd ed rules where a lot more complex and then in 4-5th editions was almost non-existent, to a very streamlined form in miracle dice that they have now.
As a CSM player yeah dark pacts is not a very narrative rule especially for my Nightlords what God am I not selling my soul too to today?
It would be cool if we lost out on dark pacts but got to issue dread tests for our attacks, to show the malicious and spiteful nature of the sons of Curze.
Don't get me wrong I enjoy auto wounding targets that are tough but it does diminish gameplay and makes certain units just all around good while diminishing others, it's just bad for internal balance.
No one has said it : a good rule is balanced, it is fair for both players, neither over powered or weak.
We are here for the fun, and the fun must be shared !
edit : it is just something i add ; of course, i agree with all your points in the video.
Great content, I want to see explorations of all army rules and maybe some looks into how unit rules in 10th could’ve been better handled and not re-used in practically every army instead of making more unique rules for the units
There's the prime content.
Absolute cinema, even.
I like how Horus Heresy does it: all the weapons have shared profiles, but it's the units themselves that make them good. Autoguns suck ass with Militia but when a Blackshield picks one up it's amazing. It's very easy to reason that an Astartes shoots better than an unaugmented human
Hey WhatThe40k, its a big ask but would you like to take a look or have a chat with me about game mechanics and rules for 40k? i have been playing a alternative ruleset for 40k that i have been creating and love talking about what to improve with it. Love watching your videos and you have always been straight to the point which i like.
Much as i hate to be that person, the melta gun on the dreadnought is actually that nosel hidden in the fist, not the big ass gun on the right arm.
I know this cause I just built one. Looking at that image it’s very easy for someone to assume that you were saying the lascannon and melta were the same gun.
I appreciate the intention but you are incorrect. The Multi-melta profile on the Contemptor is in fact the weapon picture on the Dread's left arm. Which is, a Multi-melta (albeit a large one) type weapon, not a Lascannon.. The Contemptor cannot take an inbuilt meltagun in it's fist. That would be the Leviathan Dreadnough FYI.
@@WhatThe40k Ah, my mistake then, I clearly then need to check mine to make sure I didn’t build it with a flamer in the hand then.
@colinwalker6804 no t a problem 👍 I recently built one as well... But your comment definitely threw me for a beat😅
I think they're referring to the gravis melta cannon, given the comparison to a sister with a multi-melta.
@@WhatThe40k Yes and no. This might just be me thinking more in terms of Horus Heresy, but the in-built fist weapon on the Contemptor can be either a combi-bolter, flamer, plasma blaster, graviton gun, or meltagun as per the sprue.
I understand that those options get pruned hard in vanilla though.
I've thought of a way dark pacts work for renegades. instead of praying to the dark gods for sustained hits, how about you load up experimental frag rounds? or AP rounds for lethals? and for melee, combat drugs are fairly common in the setting, be it a boost to their strength or speed for lethals or sustained respectively
Since you touched this subject and extrapolating a little bit, who else felt that the thousand sons felt underwhelming in SM2? Especially the lord of change "behavior/actions"...
Rules that focus on and encourage you to maneuver and position your minis on the board= good.
Rules that make you pick things out of a book, or spend tiddy-wink points= bad
Because it’s a miniatures game.
A good rule is one that doesn’t suck
Yeah, a good example is world eaters. The bloodtithe may be considered worse. It felt more thematic. khorne does not care from wince the blood flows as longs as it flows
I feel that the dark pact mechanic should be a detachment rule. Probably for 2 or 3 detachment with some tweaks.
The army rules should have been oath of hatred or the Wantons...
Showing the flexibility with probably a negative return bit a better damage output.
I play iron warriors, they couldn't give a rat's a** about allegeance. They see a demon, put that in an engine or a machine. That's it.
Then look at pacts as an unleashing of warp energy.
Ultimately, 40k needs to use dice with more sides. D6 gives so few options that there has to be very complex interactions of special rules that manipulate the dice rolls to get enough variety from them for a game with as many different units/weapons ect
I don't think dice are the problem in 40k. Many other wargames use d6s and managed to avoid 40k problems. Main thing is GW is focused not on creating a good experience but on selling as many miniatures as they can.
I would suggest comparing the Blood Tithe to Blessings of Khorne, but the latter would score too low to even make the list.
💪❤️🤘🔥👍
The one thing i dont like about dark pacts is that you could make renegades high on warp nonsense
It feels wrong to have Huron use them
💪🔥🤘❤️👍