Can a 20 year old bike keep up with the latest geometry trends? High Vs Low bottom brackets PART 2
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- No mechanicals or impromptu backflips this time!
I take out the GT trials bike and old Echo control once again to see how the differences in geometry stack up against a range of obstacles...am I starting to soften my opinion on modern extreme bottom bracket heights?
Previous videos:
Bike build: • Gt Trials Prototype Dr...
First ride: • Prototype GT Trials Bi...
High Vs Low Part 1: • Low Vs High bottom bra...
Big thanks to David for letting me ride at hime farm, please check out the Scottish Biketrial site to learn more and find out details on getting yourself or your kids into trials in Scotland!
www.scottishbi...
Also a big thanks to Fraser for filming, go give him a follow!
Lastly big thanks to @SuperRiderTV for the GT frame, give him a follow too!
Thanks so much for watching!
Ali
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In my 25 yrs of ridin and admiring trials, Ive learned that 95% of skills is because of the rider haha
As I remember, Robbie, you are 95% overbiked!! Glad you are still trialsin!!
All the movements on the GT look so much more fluid, more graceful. I think you'd switch sides if you spent some time with a high BB...
i agree, your riding posture seemed more "natural" when on the back wheel of the GT
Wow! Thanks Ali. This tutorial is consequential ❤
You're welcome 😊
These bikes are so different, now that you've ridden them both thoroughly I can really see how they behave and ride. Some serious lines you did too! Would love to try a high BB bike one day
"Fraser the Broken" is now my name for him in my head. It'll never not be...
😂
Great video yet again!
Appreciate that
Ohh yeah that's right. Ali has been my trials teacher for longer than the teachers in my school were.😂
😵
great conclusion at the end!
That up the way pipe line 🫡
😎
Bottom bracket height when you're on the back wheel most of the time seems like an arbitrary value. I guess the only thing that actually changes is where your feet are in relation to your handlebars... slam your stem like a roadie on the other bike and maybe they'll feel similar once you've succeeded to get the front up.
Oh it makes a huge difference on the rear wheel, on the GT the bike rides a lot more vertically and you’re pretty much directly above the bb, dropping the bars on the echo might close the gap a little but you’d probably need your bars down by the axle to get the same effect
Love this content, but you really are keeping us on our toes with that bike sponsor
I honestly expected to have them last week 😭
Ooohhh radical!?
Reminds me of the Koxx Marc Vinco frame… I think that‘s got an even higher BB.
This video makes lead me to 2 questions:
- you keep talking about low vs high bb but that metric is only giving half the story, what about stack and bb to bar height difference ? Maybe by compensating with stem and spacers you could be in a more familiar position on the GT while still having some of the benefits of the higher bb. Or do the opposite and compensate on the Echo to have some of the GT characteristics. I don't know anything about trials but in Enduro and DH these metrics get forgotten and people only think about BB height which doesn't tell you anything.
- Considering that you are struggling on high bb bikes but all the comp riders went that way. Could it be the case that because one very successful comp rider used such geo it started a trend. But as any setup maybe it was better for that specific rider and not for others but because of the trend young riders learned on this type of geo which made it stick around ? Again if you look at DH bikes or Enduro bikes, geo and setups vary a lot between different riders of the same speed.
Good points!
So a bit of trials history, in around 2004 a French pro rider got his sponsor to make a signature bike for him and it was the first example of a high bb frame…it actually had a +80bb which is nuts, even for todays standard. His thinking was that it was basically just a 20” bike upscaled to 26” and would run the same bar and stem as the 20” bikes to bring the hands up and have the relationship between your hands and feet feel the same as a “normal” bb height of bikes at the time.
It worked but it was still an extreme bike and it didn’t really catch on…it took about 10 years before bb heights got high again except this time riders started to experiment with more extreme bar positions…namely Jack Carthy started running lower longer stems and extremely rolled forward bars…he came and shook up the comp world and everyone followed his setup, it’s taken another ten years for people to really adapt to it but there’s no doubt this new school comp setup is capable of insane riding.
As for making the bars higher to compensate for the higher bb, it worked for the older original riders of high bb to make the bike feel more “normal” but you can’t fully get away from the top heavy feel and the relationship between your feet and where the bottom of the rear wheel is…if you have the muscle memory from a low bb bike it means to have to try and un-learn that memory which is very hard if you don’t commit the time.
Low BB for the win in this video but if you can master the high BB that would win all day long. Nice to see Ali rolling this week instead of trolling like last week 😂😂 Shutout to Frazer
Great to see you swinging the GT around, I think you’re getting used to this high bb and crazy bar angle 😂 you seem less contorted in comparison to the echo.
Does anyone else catch themselves thinking, what a ridiculous way to ride a bicycle? I love it, but it's insane!
what, you don’t commute by climbing directly over every obstacle along the way?
😂 yes, I think this quite often
15:08...I was really worried you might get killed...by a piranha plant. 🍄
I almost made a Mario reference when I posted it on Instagram 😋
Looks live having the different two bike to contrast and compare makes comparison and understanding of what you do and don't like about the bikes more obvious. At least it seems that way to me.
I kinda wish I had some trials skills, but I can never get my brakes to work. Then again, my only bikes right now are a brakeless 20" bmx and a Fairdale Taj.
The high BB is a bigger swinging pendulum. Harder to balance but easier to throw around. The opposite is true for the low BB.
By 3.15 it looked simply like you needed a moment to adjust/get used to each one. Once adjusted it was equal
You could put a few months into the GT and revisit with more muscle memory for high BB.
It why 29’s monster truck over obstacles better. But most people feel more comfortable and confident on 27.5’s and smaller.
Perhaps splitting the difference might be the ideal bike. +50mm bb drop?
Hello, how are you? Why don't make a video of the Trail 26 conversion bike?
…sketchy versus fluid…but i ended trial decades ago (i was goood) after bonking my skull (casc was for losers in the day) and gettin afraid…but can feel my arms hucking and hands cramping looking longingly at this!!!…
How do they differ in how you bias your position, Ali?
The gt rides a lot more vertically, that means you’re stood much more upright and potentially have more room to explosively preload for jumps, it also makes the bike more accurate as the rest axle is almost directly below your feet.
The echo makes you ride in a more relaxed position, there’s less space to be explosive because you’re starting off in a lower position, because the bike isn’t as vertical your front wheel is out in front of you so you have to ride with your weight further back to compensate which means the rear wheel is slightly in front of your body weight and less intuitive rear wheel control
@@Ali_Clarkson Thanks for the great description, Ali. Makes perfect sense.
Would those hooks be easier with a straight fork rather than the ones bent forwards at the bottom? Wouldn't you have a little bit less distance to pull up where the wheels are closer together? Or is that harder?
So this fork actually has slightly less rake than most forks (straight forks are never actually a straight line unless it’s for a very specialised need (bmx flatland)).
Shorter rake is definitely nicer like you’re suggesting, it would be interesting to try a 0 rake fork and see what happens…I know one person used to run his forks backwards!
@@Ali_Clarkson Haha, yeah would be interesting to see. Was thinking that when you were trying the hook on that boulder on the previous video as well. Wouldn't it make it easier to get weight over the front wheel as well for nose manuals etc.
You are starting to look more comfortable with the forward bars and high BB, many of your previous High and forward videos you seemed very uncomfortable
Thank you, this is definitely the longest time I’ve spent riding one so it makes sense that it’s starting to get a bit more comfortable
Hi Ail, does anyone ride trials clipped in? Would it be a advantage or disadvantage?
Jeff Lenoski is clipped in on his MTB and sometimes does a bit of trials but no, no one on a trials bike is clipped in, I can’t really think of any advantages
this vs's is bonkers, we all know that you ride low bb 90% of the time, so low bb is gonna win and i haven't even watch the whole video yet.
Hia guys and girls I am new to this also doing a trials bike up it was wrecked ad it at a cheap price any tips for tyer pressure looking for v brakes old type brakes any1 giving any away plz much appreciated good few things on oder like handle bar
This stem spacers tho... omg those hinder the performance so much.
You think?
@@Ali_Clarkson you should try to move the spacers to the top of the stem. There are some angled types for this kind of experiments. Otherwise you don't utilize the "new geometry" fully imo.