Dude, that film school gave you the education to not sound like a pseudo-intellectual. You know film. And writers write about what they know. Your RUclips videos are compelling because you're drawing from knowledge you learned in school. Ever thought about freelance film criticism? It's a great way to build a portfolio.
Interpreting films critically/politically is not necessarily pseudointellectualism. I think undergrad media studies courses should teach you more than just how to label and classify things. Obviously that's important...but it doesn't have to be the only thing
@@april3945 Interpreting films critically/politically while not knowing what you're talking about is absolutely pseudointellectualism. For example: If a critic wrote that a production of "The Mikado" by Gilbert & Sullivan was too frivolous, that critic is an example of pseudointellectualism. Such an error would fly under the radar of most people. But it's an error just the same.
@@carlosrobbins9178"Interpreting films critically/politically while not knowing what you're talking about is absolutely pseudointellectualism." I agree. I still think film courses should be about more than just being able to name genres/film techniques.
@@april3945 As a side note, can we just note how utterly nonsensical and stupid “No subjective judgement calls!” is as a concept. It’s like buddy, you’re in critical theory and academia, the entire point is to build observations and understanding of a work of art through observing it and arguing your points through subjective interpretation. And even if you don’t see it that binary, it’s still ridiculous to think you can build an understanding over a work of art without first understanding how it affects you physically, mentally, and emotionally. That’s like step #1 in critically thinking about a piece of art and that’s where you get the questions of “why do I feel this way?” “How is the filmmaking guiding me to these feelings?” “Does the underlying implications or intention of the film resonate?”. If you’re not even allowed to contemplate that, how else are you supposed to mentally approach something like a work of art?
I had kind of the opposite experience: I went to a film school that was entirely focused on the actual production and post-production parts of filmmaking. So I learned about camera settings, how to change lenses, how to set up lights, set up dolly tracks, and operate a boom mic . . . BUT we didn’t ever dig into WHY we might make certain choices during production in order to serve the script. I learned so much more about pre-production, scripting, and the creativity of film from watching film RUclipsrs like you than I ever learned in school! So it definitely depends on what you want to do in the industry when it comes to what type of film education you might consider or whether you just want to try diving in and working your way up from PA. I do use the skills I learned all the time and I’m glad I eventually stumbled across some amazing RUclips creators whose videos helped me with making filmmaking decisions that support the storytelling.
I went to an art school and had an experience like coldcrash, and its 4 years of teachers (and us) waxing poetics about dissecting theory and art criticism and not much on hands on experiences. In the end its so abstract that I'd love nothing more to get something much more practical out of it.
@@nurbot I went to a school called The Centre For Arts And Technology (in Canada). It was basically a trades school for digital arts. So they had graphic design, web design, audio engineering, and digital filmmaking programs. I did digital film and it was definitely great for the practical aspects of film. I got experience working in all the departments of the production phase. But it was a bit thin on the film theory end of things. So like, I learned how to format a screenplay, but not necessarily how to tell a good story. Or I learned the different shots used, but not necessarily why I would choose one over the other in editing. And I learned how to light a scene, but not why I might choose to light a scene a certain way. Watching film RUclips was the way I started to piece together how to be a good storyteller through film, instead of simply a person who knew how to use film equipment and editing software. I think it’s so important to have both aspects. I’m sure in a lot of the programs in the USA there is a good balance of theory and practical. I sadly didn’t choose a program that gave me what I had hoped for, but I’m so thankful I found resources online to fill out those gaps in my education.
Though being honest, that sounds way better than most stories I heard of Film School, most stories I hear sounds like they paid 200K just to be told, "Be Creative, Everything is Art"
I got a BFA from a very hands-on film school. Was it worth the money? Not sure. I certainly work with plenty of people who never went to film school or to college at all and they're all just as talented and capable as those of us who did. But what film school gave me was a chance to be messy. I loved that my only responsibilities at school were just to be creative and tell stories. I got my hands on all departments of production and got to try things out in a pretty safe environment. I love that got to FAIL at things without it ruining my entire life. Failing is underrated. From all that I learned what i'm good at, and also what i'm not, and that's worth a lot.
This actually feels relatable to the university experience in general, even my science degree is essentially useless and I’m not sure what do to next. I also feel like I don’t understand the point of my degree as well. I think I lot of people are in this boat.
Yep. And it's not just the US. I'm going to finish my PhD this year and since I don't want to stay at the university I have no idea what I can do afterwards.
CJ the X recently said that "there are things that are valuable, but not profitable." Regardless of the direct financial exchange of degree->income, your film degree is likely a large part of why your channel is as we know it. You have taken a valuable (if not profitable) experience and created more value with it.
I went to a commercial focused design school (aka the kind of film school you apparently would have rather have attended) and you don't get guaranteed anything there either, even with all of your professors actively working in the field to various levels of prestige. I had professors that had basically branded Sears for the better part of a decade, another one you've definitely seen his book jackets on the shelf. But when it came time for the portfolio show, after I nearly cut the tip of my finger off trying to prepare business cards we were said to have ready for visitors from the industry who would come in to critique our works because I didn't have enough money to get proper printing done with cool embossed logos or spot printed eye popping colors etc, no one showed up. Three people the entire 4 hours showed up and visited the graphic student's area and I'm not sure I so more than 20 people come through that weren't parents or friends of other students. It was abysmal. I had spent a lot of time on the concept of my presentation and although I didn't have the budget to see it to the potential I thought it had, I was able to make do and trim out the stuff I knew I couldn't pull off without either more time, more help or more money (I put together just about everything alone, which included a video presentation, product mockups and displays, a nicely formatted book with some of my non 'design' artwork cause I went in already kind of okay at drawing/illustration, etc. and all this while still doing a massive amount of production homework for other classes I was still taking at the time!). Those three people? One was a guy looking to lowball someone with that kind of industry professional instruction to do a poster campaign for a grade school (to be honest, that might have been fun, but not what I was looking for, which was a grunt production job at a firm of some kind or in house graphics grunt for a print shop, etc.) another one was also a friend of one of the students but also wasn't hiring and he ran basically a print shop + branding local operation, and the last one was someone who didn't bother identifying who they were nor did they bother saying anything good nor bad about anyone's projects. I got very little after graduation support for looking for work. They did have career assistance department but they didn't have leads I couldn't find on my own OR they would tell me outright I wasn't qualified for a variety of position I actually wanted because they were for people with 2 years professional experience minimum, to which I thought, "Funny, I could have sworn that you guys sold me on this school because of the highly professional atmosphere of which we must create and present assignments, it's just done in a no risk environment to which professionals will tell you where you did great and where you didn't do great and how to get better." Then they had a cork board with more listings and nearly all of them were either unpaid yet requiring, again, lots of experience or they had extremely bizarre technical requirements in terms of software which, as a computer dork who was learning the actual fundamentals of design and such and had learned literally 'on the job' how to fix a radar in the Navy was like, 'HR who has no idea what the job is wrote this garbage and I'm a little too honest to lie about some of this stuff.' That's not to say I haven't done work in the field after leaving school. I currently am a part time in house graphics guy for a 30 year old record label based in the UK for which I grew up listening to a lot of the music the label founders pioneered way back in the late 80s and early 90s (a little genre called drum and bass) and I've done some logo designs and flyers within that scene. It doesn't pay rent, but it's fun and I know that had I not had school to make impressive commercial-style projects with proper guidance to show them in order to get the unsteady work I've gotten thus far, I'd never have gotten ANY of those opportunities. I didn't want to be famous, I just wanted to do something I enjoy and get paid for it. I'd like to get paid more and make it my actual day job, but it is what it is and I'm still happy and all the work I'm doing might lead to something more substantial and I'll still probably have enough time to keep making album covers for these producers and artists I never thought I'd ever have anything to do with listening to their underground tunes in the early 90s. As far as the teaching aspect of this video, all teachers are getting screwed, full stop. A friend of my partner's has a teaching and art degree and there's literally nothing but adjunct and she had to quit because driving hours between the two schools she was working at before the pandemic was not a schedule she could keep as a parent and then the pandemic happened and she's basically just getting a real estate degree so she can do house walkthroughs for potential buyers for commission instead. Overall, I think the quality of education in general in the US when it comes to higher education has been thoroughly gutted from truly talented and intelligent people and without masters to teach the new students, we're going to lose a lot in terms of being able to foster up and coming talent with proper guidance to become the new masters and it'll be generations to repair it. At any rate, this one hit home for me. The only thing I didn't have to deal with was student debt because I had the GI Bill from doing 6 years of hard time in a tuna can floating in the middle east for uncle sam. I'm not sure I could handle my lack of stable life with 100,000$ of debt following me around, too.
I feel as though I’m someone who has made similar mistakes. It’s good to see someone on RUclips telling the truth about post-graduate life in a class context, instead of peddling the same bullshit “you’ve got a camera on your phone, make a movie” sentiment. You need a crew more than anything, and crews are harder to come by if your post-Uni life is a modest one. Don’t get me wrong, I have just recently managed to achieve something big with the things I’ve learned over the years, but it was something that only I could personally do. It wasn’t making a film, something different. I still am yet to make a film.
"Syllabi." And for what it's worth, I think you would do well teaching remotely -- students discussing film seminar style via zoom; breakout small discussions followed by larger class discussions.
From someone who did their Undergrad in Film & Media Studies at UCSB, Graduate in Cinema & Television Production at USC, and enjoyed their time in both. I can say that film school is being a bit overprescribed and also misleadingly sold. For people looking to simply get into the industry or work on set, it's much cheaper and faster to go to either a trade school or workshop that focuses on things like camera work, lighting, electrical, set building, VFX, etc. The number one thing I saw in students was that many had been sold the idea that they were going into a production school when in reality they were going to spend their time writing papers and talking about old/foreign films they had no interest in. That's not to say those things are bad (I personally enjoyed that aspect because I initially wanted to be a critic/theoretician like Andre Bazin or someone), but I know many young people want to actually make films and not just ponder them. For people wanting to go into more above-the-line or "creative" fields, understand that even if you do get into a school that's production-focused and not studies focused you might still find some things lacking. Universities and Trade Schools are honestly a mixed bag when it comes to teaching the craft of filmmaking because there's a lot more emphasis on the technical aspects and very little on artistic ones. To clarify what that means: they will teach you something like editing but what that means is that they'll essentially make sure you know how to use Avid Media Composer and Premiere Pro, not necessarily how to create impactful rhythm/timing in a scene or how certain cuts make people feel. These kinds of classes are great if you're trying just to get some technical familiarity with tools, or if your goal is to work more on the crew side of filmmaking such as a gaffer or assistant editor. If you're looking more for things like finding your creative voice, growing as an artist, working with actors, or putting what's in your head onto a more tangible field; you'd most likely have a better time in Art, Theater, or Writing departments as those are designed to pull the creativity out of you. Despite all of these drawbacks, film school still can be a benefit if you know what to look for. As mentioned in the video, access to equipment and networking are probably the biggest things films schools have in their favor. Both of these things are highly dependent on what school you go to as some have more resources and connections than others. A school like University of Arizona probably won't have the same industry opportunities as say LA City College simply for the fact that one has easier access to the physical location of the industry than the other. The other great resources are the flexibility and the students themselves. Unlike workshops, online courses, & trade schools where you won't usually get a lot of interaction with other people, Uni's provide you the opportunity to get the hardest part of making a film for young people: the crew. Being in a place where you can potentially have access to AT LEAST 15 other movie nerds, all aching to make something, can be a godsend especially if you're 18, broke, and don't have access to a professional crew. Also, keep in mind that the other benefit to undergrad is that a lot of those earlier issues I mentioned can be supplemented by taking courses outside of your film major. Theater classes are great at learning how to be a director and working with a crew, many digital art classes are now teaching the basics of editing software & 3D design, a good photography class will honestly teach 85% of what you would be learning in a cinematography class. Undergrad can suck sometimes because you can feel like you can't just focus on the one thing you want to learn, but the upside is that you still have the ability to diversify your skills whereas most other education outlets really want you to just specialize. Overall, this is all just a long-winded way of saying that it really depends on if you should go to film school or not. I work in the industry, also grinding towards pushing myself higher, & I've met people who didn't go to school and are glad they didn't, who did and wouldn't be as successful without it, people who wish they went, people who wish they hadn't. It really all depends on what you want, where you are in life, and what hand life and the system deal you. Personally, I'm thankful for my education because it's made me a better and more skilled filmmaker than I think I would've been without it, it introduced me to worlds of cinema I never would have known about, it taught me ways of looking at and discussing film that goes beyond just talking about pretty shots, and it introduced to so many friends and colleagues that I'll probably have for the rest of my life. However, I can't honestly tell you that it's an overall good deal. If things were different and I didn't have scholarships to cover a lot of those extreme expenses, I don't know if I'd feel as optimistic as I do now. I think everyone deserves a chance to do what they want and if you wanna study film you should be able to, just know that there are other routes than just the singular one you've been told and find what's right for you. For anyone who's still there. here's some advice when looking into film schools. -Understand what kind of school it is. It's messed up to expect 17-18 y.o.'s to look into every facet of a school but it's, unfortunately, the reality. Many kids make the mistake of misinterpreting Film Studies/Cinematic Arts/Media Studies/whatever they wanna call it as meaning Film Production. If you're looking to actually hold a camera and produce some shorts, make sure that's what the school offers so you don't end up realizing you'll be writing academic papers for the next 4 years. -Broaden your goals and somewhat know what you like. The meme amongst all film school faculty is that if you have a class of 80 freshmen, 75 are gonna say they want to be a director and the other 5 are going to be employed in the future. That's a messed up joke, but I think it does catch onto a real thing I saw in school which was that many people weren't aware of all the aspects of filmmaking and simply latched onto directing. I've met so many people now who wasted their time trying to work towards being a director because that was the only real job they knew about for movies, till they realized they loved being an editor, or sound designer, or producer, or art director, etc. Filmmaking is such a varied art form, so don't be afraid to look into other avenues and let that guide where you go. -Don't let the status be a major factor. I know in highschool the goal is to get into as high of a university as you can, but the thing most people learn after graduating is that it's not really the university that's important, but the school within it. I worked with people who have gone to super prestigious schools like Yale or the University of Chicago and found their education very lacking because their film departments were either barely existent or super lackluster. Meanwhile, you can look at a place like CSU Fullerton which is a fairly average school but is known throughout the industry as having a fantastic animation program. There are a lot of quality programs out there that from smaller schools that can give what you need without the increased stress and money burning as the top universities. -The top universities are a bit complicated. Places like USC, UCLA, Tisch, AFI, and the other big guys both are and are not worth it. The best way to put it is that these schools have the method of just throwing their students in the deep end because they really expect you to already know what you want. That can mean things like they want you to know already what field of filmmaking you wanna work in, what types of stories you want to tell, and what paths do you see yourself taking for your career. This method can be very beneficial if you have those things in mind, but it can also completely waste your time since it's essentially asking you to start running the moment you get in and it can be very easy to feel like you're lagging behind if you need to familiarize yourself with filmmaking or just simply take the time to figure out what you want. You can either come out with a lot or not much at all and for the extreme price tags those schools have, it may not be worth it to make that gamble and instead try for places that will nurture you as a filmmaker more.
Wow, great summary. I studied science and it’s really interesting to see how the divide between theoretical and practical plays such a big role in other areas. Where I live, a science degree doesn’t qualify you to work in science unless it’s an applied degree, but it does open the door to future study. That can be more or less helpful depending on what you actually want!
Man I can’t tell you how much I appreciate this rn. I’m 20yrs old going on 21 and still figuring things out w what I want to do and I have been trying to find smth to get me into directing for a while now but you really opened my eyes about other parts of film making. I still think I want to be apart of the directing side of film/screenplay writing but I’d love to experience the other aspects of making a film. The only thing is is that I don’t think film school is an option for me so I’m not so sure how to find my way into the industry and get a hands on feel for it. But all that to say that I appreciate your words man, I found this very helpful.
I had a good friend who went to his grave three years ago almost to the day, and he had an MFA from CalArts in film, television, and theatre directing from the early '90s, no full time job, $75,000 in student loan debt, and he had NEVER FINISHED EVEN ONE FILM, not even his student film. As far as I know, his highest paying gig in film was as an actor playing a doctor in an Army training film who had to tell a soldier that he had VD, and yes, it was called "VD" back then. He complained that all his fellow students wanted him to be the sound guy because he had a reputation for being good at it and doing a good job. I told him he should have done that, and he simply told me "It wasn't what I wanted to do." I figured he had unrealistic goals, expecting that someone would hire him to direct something when he'd never finished a production of his own before, and doing sound work would have been a way to make a living in film. It's easy for me to say that he should have done it, but I get the idea that even if they teach the technical side of making films, they don't teach students how to make good career decisions. Working as the sound editor would certainly have been better than being a production assistant, another job he was apparently offered and turned down. I thought he just completely and unjustifiably dismissed trying to make commercials, industrial films, or music videos because he wanted to create high art. Well, that's not what sells, unfortunately, and his parents weren't wealthy, so he should have gone where the money was and then made whatever he wanted on his own dime and time. I wondered if there were a lot of other guys like him who expected to direct, wouldn't budge or compromise just to network and get what they want later, and ended up not working in their field, but the more I thought about it, the more I think that it was a longshot anyway, and he hadn't prepared himself adequately for the likelihood of not getting what he wanted. Cal Arts really somehow convinced him that he was going to follow a conventional career path, and I think they share at least some of the blame, even though he definitely could have done a lot more to help himself. It's tragic, and I wish things had been better for him, but his story is over now.
Currently in film production year 2. We learn EVERYTHING! The Arri cameras, sound equipment, grip equipment like the jibs, dollies etc, and editing on After Effects. Some people who’ve graduated here almost always got jobs
Yeah you're real talented at this video medium thing. Insightful takes and humorous delivery. I appreciated the capitalism-is-draining side rant; as a fresh college grad, I sure feel the weight of that crushing despair (of all day jobs I could've gotten though, I'm pretty alright with the one I got). Thanks for making the things you make, the way you make them!
This video essay reminds me of my time earning my performing arts degree, so thanks for making me feel better about it. Also, I would have ragged at that film teacher for yelling at your classmate because they liked the film, art is suppose to make you feel something first and foremost.
Can I just say, this video was so beautiful and cathartic to me? I just graduated from college this past June, and while my academic experience was quite different from yours (I majored in Economics - crazy immigrant parents wouldn't hear of anything "impractical" - and was lucky enough to snag a job my senior year), there was so much about your experience and reflection that resonated with me. There were definitely moments where I questioned the validity of my education, no matter how supposedly prestigious it was, and certainly many parties/social opportunities that I regret missing out on. But I'm also incredibly grateful that I was able to spend four years just exploring and learning about the things that interested me, and become a more knowledgeable and open-minded individual - without the daily adult worries of cooking, rent, and transportation (though the student debt isn't fun, of course). As a recent grad, it's nice having these complex feelings shared by an older person, especially when it's one of my favorite RUclipsrs. Thanks for the content :)
I went to a university for animation, and while the degree certainly helped with the networking aspect, the real employable skills were gained in a technical school online that purely focused on character animation. I loved hearing your thoughts on college in general, I think you really hit a common thread that many can feel after graduating.
Oh my gosh, baby Serge! 😄 So much of college is hard to justify sometimes, especially if you're getting an arts degree. Like yeah, hard sciences are going to teach you important things, but you're definitely right that anything involving film or literature or history can be studied for free on one's own time. For me the benefit of University was the social aspects - I was able to start coming out of my shell and find my people. Would have been nice if I didn't have to spend so much money on that, but still...
I'm currently teaching film studies at a university in Germany and I must say, so much of those complaints are not just about capitalism, but particularly about the US system. I feel really bad for you guys in the US, because this kind of calculation isn't something a 17 year-old should be expected to do. There are very few courses in this world that are financially "worth it" when they cost this much, and anything in the arts is never gonna be one of them. I would also say that there is a difference between film studies and film school. Here in Germany the second isn't even a university course, but something offered by "techinal schools". If what you wanted to do was become a filmmaker, then I suppose you did choose the wrong degree. I hope the university didn't lie to you/give you false expectations in that regard. You are clearly very good at doing the kind of thing film *studies* courses are designed to train you to do: analyze movies. I for one am very happy you do the work you do, and I hope you are not disappointed in yourself for having followed a different path than you had envisioned. Though you said as a student it wasn't clear to you what teachers expected from you, I can say that the work you do is exactly the kind that I would expect from a (great) film studies graduate. I have used your video essay on Gone With the Wind in one of my classes btw. The students loved it.
Thanks for this video. I'm applying to colleges right now, specifically film and video production programs, and basically everything you're talking about is going through my brain. I know for certain I want to do something creative, and movies and film study have been my main interest for all of high school. I'm still stuck on whether I want to go to my state university with its tiny, brand new video production program that I'm not sure will even have the classes I want, or the expensive reputable out of state college that will leave me 300k in debt but with better tools and connections (that is, if I get in to either of these schools). I don't really want a Hollywood job, and maybe I won't even end up wanting a career in film at all, but I want to go somewhere that will enable me to create stories and learn the most effectives ways to tell narratives. It's hard knowing that my interests will probably change in the next 4 years, and any school that isn't a community college with limited film classes probably won't be worth the price tag. No matter what happens, I'm glad that you're willing to share your experience. It makes me feel better that someone whose work inspired me to develop my interest in film had to face a similar conundrum and came out on the other side without giving up hope. Thank you!
The 300 K debt you mentioned offhandedly is giving me conniptions. US college are so expensive it's crazy. And it sucks that you have to make such major life decisions with so little preparation and at such a young age. I was going to chime in with some life advice, but honestly I'm the last person that should be giving advice to other people on what to do with their lives. So... Good luck?
Go to the community college and take the limited film classes just to see if that's something you like. Give yourself time and exposure to see how your interests change and then transfer to a 4 year if that's where your interests take you. Maybe you'll take a limited cc film class and love it and it'll cement that career goal in your head. Or maybe you'll take a computer science elective and realize that's where your new passion lies. Best thing you can do is expose yourself to a lot of options and see which ones stick. And then realize that getting paid to do what you love as a daily grind day job is a good way to learn to hate what you love and now you understand that line about capitalism in this video...
I'm in the same boat as you. So lemme tell you, I am currently getting my associates degree in Film/Tv at community college for only $12 a class! My plan is to stay there for two years then eventually go to a university or specialized school for my bachelors. But right now, I'm a part of my college's film club and I was able to work with a crew for the first time and direct my own short film! That experience alone taught me a lot and gave me the freedom to explore my creative abilities. My director of photography is 28 years old and stays at community college because of their work experience course and the fact that he is already getting paid to film for real companies says he didn't need film school. One of my actors is in her 30s, graduated at a prestigious Calstate with a major in Communications, but came back to community to explore film! Community college is a good place to start in my opinion and gives you time to hone your craft.
I did take a few really awesome classes like the ones you imagined (I took classes like "The Vampire in Fiction" and "Black Queer Pop Culture" and I even got to teach a Literature class senior year about queer erotic fiction) but a lot of what I learned in Literature and Feminist Studies degrees is just the same as what you're describing about film school
I loved my "esthetic and history of cinema" studies. They were a total waste of time if you think about them as a usefull thing to get a career. But to my big surprise, they are very usefull almost every day in my job in communication. How to analyze a storytelling or an image, how an image can convey way more than a bad written obligatory catch line, etc.
16:30 In my college, most classrooms have a projector and a screen so you actually could pull up clips from whatever thing you're talking about and play it for the class.
I went to University of Iowa. I was not a film major, but I took genres- Westerns from the film school. Our discussion were mainly about how Westerns reflected popular conceptions of how the US wanted to think of itself & how the tropes that define Westerns show up elsewhere & how we make the distinction.
this is like... kinda depressing just bc of the state of america but also kind of reassuring to me (22 yo dropout now going to community college). im not even studying film, but just the reassurance that college is not in fact magic and im not a total idiot for failing. thank u
I’ve never studied film in my degree (which was totally unrelated) but WOW i would’ve loved to be taught by you!! I love the way you talk and the way you articulate your thoughts, it’s so engaging and respectful and clean. Can i just ask, what sorts of jobs did you do after graduation to get by? And how do you think most filmmakers actually get their jobs?
Wait, you read the Animorphs series? I notice the books behind you. Not sure if they've been there a while and I just noticed it or not. I am obsessed with that "children's" series so much.
My high school had a social studies class, "American Society and Film" that I think you would have loved. It was probably my introduction to film studies, and allowed me as someone who struggled badly with any sort of history class to actually connect to the material. And a huge part of the class was actually watching films, clips, montages and discussing what was going on, why things were the way they were, etc. It's the class that killed my ability to watch anything "fullscreen" as well xD.
Your approach to teaching/discussing film is what I thought it would be like when I joined my school's film club. I wanted to talk about special effects or how the film language helped the plot or really anything other than why certain guys I had never heard of were the best people ever. If anything, going to film school definitely taught you how to avoid that style
For what you covered I think you were accurate, but one option you left out is industrial or commercial video production. While they aren't always the highest paying jobs if you like the craft they are fulfilling ways to make money doing what you like. They also get you a lot more of the experience and often get you connections into the industry over time. I did that for a long while with my crappy digital media arts degree and both enjoyed it and learned a lot. There's also plenty of people who enjoy event/wedding videography or news videography though those can be demeaning jobs at time.
Love this. I'm having a lot of the same mixtures of frustrations for a variety of reasons, albeit in a different set of fields (... I'm pretty sure at least *one* is obvious). And it's taking me a bit longer to figure out... where I'd actually be happy, while I'm still doing the things I absolutely love (because I love building relationships with my students) and definitely hate (so much of what happens in a school can die in the biggest fire ever). It's also kind of made me realise what I might want to do with the next couple terms of some of my classes. Or, if not those classes, then definitely in future work in the same field. (Because what you said about teaching is something I'm struggling with, even in the secondary level.)
I had film studies as my minor in university and although I enjoyed it a lot, I gotta say that I've learned so much more about it from RUclips's thriving video essay scene. Even though the professors and teachers I had were mostly good and the education I got did give a good basic grasp of the history of film, there was only so much I could learn about the cinematic language by sitting on lectures where the main teaching tool was the overhead projector. We would watch clips or entire movies (usually as home assignments) every now and then, but most of our lectures consisted of the teacher narrating an unambitious PowerPoint presentation with minimal visual references. It's one thing to do through the history of the industry from the point of view of distribution, politics, and technological innovations in this manner, but it's no good as soon as you get into the actual art of cinema or specific techniques. That's why I appreciate RUclips's video essayists so much: they're able to convey information and point of examples so much more efficiently through the video format. I think videos like yours are going to be helpful to the next generation of filmmakers and other film enthusiasts. Learning how to analyze movies isn't going to teach anyone how to actually make one, but I think that understanding the tools of expression and the traditions of the craft is important when it comes to coining one's own artistic point of view.
This retrospective is amazing, I appreciate your really grounded hindsight on like going to college for art/passion 🙌🏾 as an animation/art major that’s still figuring out my way to create for a living I like your run down of all the honest experiences and solutions you did and didn’t get from film school, great stuff as always 😊
Hi! I relate to this. I went to UChicago for college from 2013-2017, and then did that expensive Masters Program in Cinema Studies from 2020-21. I actually remember watching your UChicago Decalogue when I was first deciding whether to go there lol. I agree that UChicago is focused super heavily on theory, especially if you're in the humanities--it's definitely not a film school. And the private police force is still terrible! But some things have changed. First of all, there's all kinds of film and audio equipment you can borrow from the arts center now. They also hired a documentary filmmaker and some game designers/animators/etc. to teach a few production classes. There's also a lot more Cinema Studies PhD students interested in unorthodox stuff like video games and sound design and nonwestern media. I did my Master's thesis on the politics of Mister Rogers' Neighborhood, which was honestly a blast. But you're right--it's really hard at super academic schools, or really any schools, to make art and not just study it. I wanted to make podcasts, and I found the most success when I found an older student with the same interest as me and just hung out with her and met some of her connections. I still have a pretty on-and-off career, but I at least managed to get some internships. And now I make video essays on RUclips! Anyway, thank you for this video and keep up the great work!
Interesting both your experience and several of the comments so far really highlight how much college is the luck of the draw for the focus of the program you end up with. Glad I'm not the only one who feels some ambivalence after the process.
I had those moments too, of "was it worth it to get a university education in Biology?" "Should I have gone with plan B (engineering)?". It's quite the useless endeavour for oneself and not terribly useful for others because each life is different. I'm not working in Biology anymore but I enjoy the perspective on the world it provides me (and boy was it useful lately... I bought masks and disinfecting gel on the 15th January 2020 cause I had already learned what was going to happen one day back in 2000...). The only thing I can't weigh in my perspective is debt because I'm European and have no debt. I lived with my parents because I could commute to university and I worked weekends to cover my 40€ transport pass and the ~60€ a month of tuition.
Well, I appreciate you went to film school because you've made this channel very captivating partially with your education and knowledge. I hope you totally succeed on this channel because I could watch you talk about anything. You got the right stuff.
Love this video. I am a college prof who often gets first year or dual credit students. I tell them to talk to someone in their industry or, at the very least, a grad student. College is a weird and wonderful place but often we do not do a great job of explaining how it really works.
I'm at the moment of my life where I should decide whether I should apply to a film school. Thanks a lot for sharing useful insides and telling about some pitfalls, that is what I've been looking for
I think “Film School” in question should be better defined. Lindsay Ellis and Dan Olson did a video discussing the same topic: ruclips.net/video/hrxKwUi78zc/видео.html If you only want to work on productions and not necessarily make your own film as a director, vocational/trade school is an option. Dan got jobs straight out of school and was debt free by the end of that year. Keep in mind tuition in Canada is MUCH LOWER.
@@nancykerrigan I don't think they're saying people should go to school in Canada, they're saying people should look into going to a trade school if they want to quickly get jobs in film. They then added the caveat that Canada has low tuition, which may explain how Dan could pay off his loans that quickly. (But yes, international tuition is generally much higher than resident tuition.)
There is a 3rd reason to go to film school (though maybe not U Chicago film school): If you know nothing about film and need a structured environment to learn even just a few basic principles. Recognizing the difference between bad writing, bad acting, and bad directing is not something you can easily learn from a reading list. Formal education doesn't just give you "time and space to practice", it's *guided* practice, and that guidance can be the most critical factor in what a person gains. (It sounds like UC didn't have very good guidance.)
Thank you, this was beautiful and really struck a chord for me. At 17 I was certain I wanted to work in a creative field, be it music, theatre, television or radio, I applied for drama school, a musical theatre course and arts degrees at multiple universities. I got in to one of the arts courses. I didn’t mind how, I just “knew” these were my people and it’s where I was “meant” to be. I quickly learned that although I had a little bit of talent and passion, it was not enough of either to make it in industries that can be cutthroat and filled with judgement and rejection. Making a living in any part of the entertainment industry in my country is practically impossible unless you know the right people, are persistent to a fault and are plain lucky. In retrospect, I’m glad I went in a different direction, a few years of trying to make it would have broken me, but the arts degree I’m still paying for is still of value to me, if only for the critical thinking skills it taught me and the many subjects and creators I was exposed to that I might not have otherwise seen. Higher education can have such value in shaping us as human beings, but at the same time can be so out of step with the reality of life. Of all of my cohort, few work in the arts, the most successful person in my group, the closest to mainstream success, was an extra in a Tarantino movie - he now manages a retail store.
I'm so glad you made that point in the end because I was absolutely commenting on it. I actually go to a "real film school" where we have barely any classes on film theory but are producing multiple projects at any time. And it took an insane amount of work to get in. I applied four times, completed an apprenticeship and an entire masters degree in the meantime, on top of multiple internships in film, working as a freelance editor for a decade and making my own short films on the side. So now I am studying to be an animation producer and - don't wanna brag but yeah, I am pretty much guaranteed a career as such, looking at my school's track record and the contacts I hava already built. However, there are huge differences to your experience. For once, I am from and study in Germany, so there is no such thing as student loan debt to worry about. My education is completely free, while my county is investing an average of 400,000€ in every single student at my uni throughout our course of study. Also, spaces are very limited and courses are super specialised. You have to apply for a specialisation like cinematograohy, series producing, film sound production, character animation, technical directing and so on and you cannot switch courses once accepted. Usually between 1 and 8 students are accepted each year per course. This way, we have the abilty to assemble a complete film team from only students from my school and everybody is a pro at their game. Of course, it is super hard to get in, but at least the amount of people that graduate can realistically all find employment afterwards and they usually do. I love that! I would recommend it to anybody who has serious intentions about working in the industry, however the degree itself isn't worth anything. If you are flexible with where and when you can work, a few years of work experience on film sets and in production companies can provide you with the same amount of insight, practice and contacts. And you will earn money and possibly travel around on top. To me that sounds like a pretty nice deal :)
My story is similar to yours, I did not get any real world lessons or any counseling on how to get a start in my field. I did work as a student aide and help print syllabuses and still had no better understanding of the curriculum. I have one instructor that I’m still connected to online that was super interesting but it seems I’ve learned more from his personal blog than I did in his class. I think social media has gifted us all, and I’m so happy you have this open platform!! 🙂-K.E.
This is by no means a solution for everyone but I found a lot of success doing a double major: anthropology and computer science. I love anthropology. It's a subject I could learn about forever. But also picking up a trade while in undergrad allowed me to change my life.
I had a very similar experience being a Lit/Creative writing major. I'm working in Journalism right now, which is perhaps the closest I'll ever get to writing for a living. So much of what you talked about here... I can relate. Cheers!
For me its simple: No. I went to the art Institute and dropped out because half the classes were ludicrous and I only really learned from three classes out of my time there. I'm back in college trying to get a degree in English in order to be a teacher but that's another hill to climb.
That film theory quote (the one that said "verisimitude" twelvty times) reminds me of that one unit of philosophy I took when studying politics at University. I was so pissed about the lack of tangibility. In politics, sure, there's a lot of opinions. But at least there were conclusions to reach.
For anyone interested in teaching at the college level, I adjunct at a stem school and it takes work. Prep, the x-factor of a live audience (and snow days.. and health concerns..), grading, student questions, etc etc etc. Also you usually don't get to decide what to teach, you're told what class you'll be teaching and you get to tweak the course. New courses are mostly made by full time faculty.
About that "so what?" feeling...at the end of my French New Wave course, one of my classmates asked what the point was of all the films we had to watch and my professor simply said, "There isn't one." I know he was implying we should just enjoy the experience without worrying about plot, but thank god my MA was only a year long. That said, like you I just got really good at academic writing and that's what I teach now to get by.
Also, for what it’s worth, Serge, if you ever did decide to go to grad school I really feel like you and your style of analysis would really vibe with JD Connor at USC.
I think as someone who had absolutely no film experience or industry connections, film school has been a really amazing way to get my foot in the door. If anyone is looking at schools, my advice would be to look at programs that can provide equipment, let you keep the rights to your own work, and emphasize on-set experience. I'm interested in production (for development, internships may be more important), and I have 10000% learned more from working on set every weekend than in my classes during the week. Film school can give you equipment, and more importantly, a talented network of people around you to learn from and make cool shit with! If you feel behind like I did, there is so much the people around you have to offer, I would really consider them to be one of the most valuable parts of film school. As a side note, make time for independent projects! I promise when you direct your thesis, any production experience you have under your belt will serve you far greater than 18 credits per semester. Also look into scholarships-a really surprising amount go unfilled every year and it's for sure the only reason I'm in school.
Even though I'm not even going to film school, your videos have actually helped me with the structure of my essays. A lot of the academic reading reads unfortunately like old chewing gum and watching well made video essays is a great help to figure out what I want my essays to be. And since my degree will also be useless, it's very reassuring to see you still found a way to do what your passionate about, even if it isn't the big career we all like to dream about.
Even if this video is 100% not directed at me (happily starting a career in the fragrance industry), will always watch for your thoughts and perspective. Thank you for your videos! 🥰
I'm in a stem field but this still resonates. There's an awful lot of college that is paying for a curtailed reading list. Also your videos are really well paced. I'm not sure if that's the right word for it but you hit the beats of your points nicely. I know you talk about scripts but I'm really curious what you could do with a long form documentary.
I don't know if it's something that's innate to you or if it's all about your education, but you definitely stand out from most movie critic type channels on youtube. I always love watching your take on films and it's always so fresh and different from other people I see (and I'm not shitting on them, I regularly watch a lot of them, and like them). I *like* that I actually learn a lot from you and it seems to me that a big part of that is your academic background. I don't remember what video got me into your channel but I do remember I was captivated right away. I would say that out of everyone I watch, you and Lindsay Ellis are the people I've learned the most from - and the people who have influenced me most to look deeper into one subject or another. I've watched movies on your recommendation, bought books to learn more about one thing or another that you mentioned. I guess the point of this comment is just to compliment you 😂 and say that I love what you're doing!
Hell yeah! Thank you! We deff need more content like this reaching more young people - colleges are hardly forthcoming or supportive when it comes to making their students successful (rather quick to brag about that success tho). This is also ofc my resentment talking - I spent 120$K in tuition costs alone (closer to 180$k factoring in living costs) for 3 years of animation school in the US, only to learn mid-way that I was very unlikely to get a job over a similarly talented US citizen (which, harsh, but I understand ppl choosing a cheaper option). And like... kids who'd never had job experience shouldn't be allowed to get themselves in lifelong debt based on false/missing/dishonest information. (And yeah, I'm still watching the video, this just be a personal rant ; p)
This video couldn’t have come at a more perfect time for me. I’m thinking about switching majors at the school I go to due to a lack luster first quarter. The reality of what a film degree actually does for me is just starting to hit me. I have time to make my decision but that time is waning. I like making movies but do I really need to invest this much time and money into it? I don’t know yet. I suppose that’s what college is for though. Thank you ColdCrash, your videos have always inspired me from an analytical end of filmmaking. No matter what I choose to do with my college career, I will always love filmmaking. Sincerely, a fan
i often felt like during my history classes we were discussing how people write about history rather than the actual history. it was also not the ideal learning experience for the subject imo. it's a little comforting (but also disappointing for us) to see other people felt the same about their college/university experiences.
ColdCrash confirmed for Baby's Day Out fan. As an NYU grad, I can safely say that my degree has done jack shit for me. Anyone that's had any success has had either familial connections or lots and lots and lots of money to get their stuff out there.
I would go back to university to watch you teach a course on film... and I have no ambition to become anything film-industry-related whatsoever. I love your "random musings".
I hope you don't mind if I put this here. I'm about five years out of college. I have a BFA in digital communication arts and a minor in theater arts. I turned to DCA, which encompasses film, journalism, game design, etc because I thought that being a voice actor wouldn't cut it financially. I feel a lot of regret for how I handled my career at school. I was an angry, lonely, confused kid who was dealing with a lot of personal issues that weren't sorted out. I didn't really know what I was doing and I didn't really explore what I liked about film. I settled on editing because I was afraid of becoming a director. When it comes to anything remotely creative, I feel almost paralyzed with fear to put myself out there. Not always mind you, but for my own ideas, I'm afraid to begin sometimes. Now, I feel like a failure for what I didn't do. I didn't do enough in school or my free time, I didn't make enough connections or friends because I was afraid and cynical about others's intentions. It now feels like I'm playing catch up to everyone else.
Having majored in communication science and media studies, I relate to this content so much! But at the same time I think humanities and social studies in general leave you with this feeling of purposelessness in the job market and the careers they advertise are valid for a small minority of graduates. The key is to broaden your spectrum of possibilities and do something that is not directly related to your studies, but ideally where you can apply some of the knowledge (mostly soft skills) you gathered in a satisfactory way.
I graduated with a film studies degree from the University of Minnesota in 2000, and just finished paying off my student loans in 2019. No film production, just theory. I tell people that my degree taught me how to watch movies very, very well. I joke that I'm eminently qualified to tell you why all of your favorite movies suck. (I don't do this--no one likes it when you tell them that something that they like sucks. In fact, if they like a movie that I didn't, I usually respond that I'm exceptionally happy that they enjoyed it, and then tell them about something that I liked.) I feel that my film studies degree opened me to watching films from decades, regions, and genres that I never would have otherwise, and that made it worth it to me.
I studied audiovisual production in a communication career that was 1/4 Journalism, 1/4 RRPP and 1/4 Advertising; and I think I got a better film education, I did made shorts; and today I'm unemployed living with my parents. I think I second the "you don't need a degree to make film" but it was a good run, depression included
You are amazing for posting the reading list. I am in a completely different career but have been trying to understand and read more into Media because it plays such a big part in our lives. Thank you so much for letting those who want to learn access your reading list. I had been looking for something like this! Big love
I was two classes away from a film minor (theory, not practice) and didn't do it because: I would have had to stay another term; what good was a film minor? I absolutely loved my courses, and every one of them was one or two days of class and one film (most at the amazing film archive theater) every week. This was the 90s and they still managed to show clips in class, even if it was on a roll-in TV. That's where I read The Society of the Spectacle, which I'm sure I misquote, but loved very much at the time.
“These are complaints about capitalism, not college” sums up most of how I feel when I try to explain how college is overpriced but still worth it.
Dude, that film school gave you the education to not sound like a pseudo-intellectual. You know film. And writers write about what they know. Your RUclips videos are compelling because you're drawing from knowledge you learned in school. Ever thought about freelance film criticism? It's a great way to build a portfolio.
Preach
Interpreting films critically/politically is not necessarily pseudointellectualism. I think undergrad media studies courses should teach you more than just how to label and classify things. Obviously that's important...but it doesn't have to be the only thing
@@april3945 Interpreting films critically/politically while not knowing what you're talking about is absolutely pseudointellectualism.
For example: If a critic wrote that a production of "The Mikado" by Gilbert & Sullivan was too frivolous, that critic is an example of pseudointellectualism. Such an error would fly under the radar of most people. But it's an error just the same.
@@carlosrobbins9178"Interpreting films critically/politically while not knowing what you're talking about is absolutely pseudointellectualism." I agree. I still think film courses should be about more than just being able to name genres/film techniques.
@@april3945 As a side note, can we just note how utterly nonsensical and stupid “No subjective judgement calls!” is as a concept. It’s like buddy, you’re in critical theory and academia, the entire point is to build observations and understanding of a work of art through observing it and arguing your points through subjective interpretation. And even if you don’t see it that binary, it’s still ridiculous to think you can build an understanding over a work of art without first understanding how it affects you physically, mentally, and emotionally. That’s like step #1 in critically thinking about a piece of art and that’s where you get the questions of “why do I feel this way?” “How is the filmmaking guiding me to these feelings?” “Does the underlying implications or intention of the film resonate?”. If you’re not even allowed to contemplate that, how else are you supposed to mentally approach something like a work of art?
"Ugh, Spielberg is late on his half of our PowerPoint AGAIN."
I had kind of the opposite experience: I went to a film school that was entirely focused on the actual production and post-production parts of filmmaking. So I learned about camera settings, how to change lenses, how to set up lights, set up dolly tracks, and operate a boom mic . . . BUT we didn’t ever dig into WHY we might make certain choices during production in order to serve the script. I learned so much more about pre-production, scripting, and the creativity of film from watching film RUclipsrs like you than I ever learned in school!
So it definitely depends on what you want to do in the industry when it comes to what type of film education you might consider or whether you just want to try diving in and working your way up from PA. I do use the skills I learned all the time and I’m glad I eventually stumbled across some amazing RUclips creators whose videos helped me with making filmmaking decisions that support the storytelling.
I went to an art school and had an experience like coldcrash, and its 4 years of teachers (and us) waxing poetics about dissecting theory and art criticism and not much on hands on experiences. In the end its so abstract that I'd love nothing more to get something much more practical out of it.
May I ask u which university r u talking about. I'm just interested, nothing more
@@nurbot I went to a school called The Centre For Arts And Technology (in Canada). It was basically a trades school for digital arts. So they had graphic design, web design, audio engineering, and digital filmmaking programs. I did digital film and it was definitely great for the practical aspects of film. I got experience working in all the departments of the production phase. But it was a bit thin on the film theory end of things. So like, I learned how to format a screenplay, but not necessarily how to tell a good story. Or I learned the different shots used, but not necessarily why I would choose one over the other in editing. And I learned how to light a scene, but not why I might choose to light a scene a certain way.
Watching film RUclips was the way I started to piece together how to be a good storyteller through film, instead of simply a person who knew how to use film equipment and editing software. I think it’s so important to have both aspects. I’m sure in a lot of the programs in the USA there is a good balance of theory and practical. I sadly didn’t choose a program that gave me what I had hoped for, but I’m so thankful I found resources online to fill out those gaps in my education.
Though being honest, that sounds way better than most stories I heard of Film School, most stories I hear sounds like they paid 200K just to be told, "Be Creative, Everything is Art"
I got a BFA from a very hands-on film school. Was it worth the money? Not sure. I certainly work with plenty of people who never went to film school or to college at all and they're all just as talented and capable as those of us who did. But what film school gave me was a chance to be messy. I loved that my only responsibilities at school were just to be creative and tell stories. I got my hands on all departments of production and got to try things out in a pretty safe environment. I love that got to FAIL at things without it ruining my entire life. Failing is underrated. From all that I learned what i'm good at, and also what i'm not, and that's worth a lot.
This actually feels relatable to the university experience in general, even my science degree is essentially useless and I’m not sure what do to next. I also feel like I don’t understand the point of my degree as well. I think I lot of people are in this boat.
Yep. And it's not just the US. I'm going to finish my PhD this year and since I don't want to stay at the university I have no idea what I can do afterwards.
@@asakiijrii Why did you pursue a PhD if you didn't know what you were going to do with it?
@@jliller Probably for the same reason most people I know do: To keep studying since they love studying.
@@maxim_edavidwild9734 Or perhaps they thought PhD = greater job prospects.
CJ the X recently said that "there are things that are valuable, but not profitable." Regardless of the direct financial exchange of degree->income, your film degree is likely a large part of why your channel is as we know it. You have taken a valuable (if not profitable) experience and created more value with it.
I’m a retail worker in high school watching this on a break. Thanks for this
I went to a commercial focused design school (aka the kind of film school you apparently would have rather have attended) and you don't get guaranteed anything there either, even with all of your professors actively working in the field to various levels of prestige. I had professors that had basically branded Sears for the better part of a decade, another one you've definitely seen his book jackets on the shelf. But when it came time for the portfolio show, after I nearly cut the tip of my finger off trying to prepare business cards we were said to have ready for visitors from the industry who would come in to critique our works because I didn't have enough money to get proper printing done with cool embossed logos or spot printed eye popping colors etc, no one showed up. Three people the entire 4 hours showed up and visited the graphic student's area and I'm not sure I so more than 20 people come through that weren't parents or friends of other students. It was abysmal. I had spent a lot of time on the concept of my presentation and although I didn't have the budget to see it to the potential I thought it had, I was able to make do and trim out the stuff I knew I couldn't pull off without either more time, more help or more money (I put together just about everything alone, which included a video presentation, product mockups and displays, a nicely formatted book with some of my non 'design' artwork cause I went in already kind of okay at drawing/illustration, etc. and all this while still doing a massive amount of production homework for other classes I was still taking at the time!).
Those three people? One was a guy looking to lowball someone with that kind of industry professional instruction to do a poster campaign for a grade school (to be honest, that might have been fun, but not what I was looking for, which was a grunt production job at a firm of some kind or in house graphics grunt for a print shop, etc.) another one was also a friend of one of the students but also wasn't hiring and he ran basically a print shop + branding local operation, and the last one was someone who didn't bother identifying who they were nor did they bother saying anything good nor bad about anyone's projects.
I got very little after graduation support for looking for work. They did have career assistance department but they didn't have leads I couldn't find on my own OR they would tell me outright I wasn't qualified for a variety of position I actually wanted because they were for people with 2 years professional experience minimum, to which I thought, "Funny, I could have sworn that you guys sold me on this school because of the highly professional atmosphere of which we must create and present assignments, it's just done in a no risk environment to which professionals will tell you where you did great and where you didn't do great and how to get better." Then they had a cork board with more listings and nearly all of them were either unpaid yet requiring, again, lots of experience or they had extremely bizarre technical requirements in terms of software which, as a computer dork who was learning the actual fundamentals of design and such and had learned literally 'on the job' how to fix a radar in the Navy was like, 'HR who has no idea what the job is wrote this garbage and I'm a little too honest to lie about some of this stuff.'
That's not to say I haven't done work in the field after leaving school. I currently am a part time in house graphics guy for a 30 year old record label based in the UK for which I grew up listening to a lot of the music the label founders pioneered way back in the late 80s and early 90s (a little genre called drum and bass) and I've done some logo designs and flyers within that scene. It doesn't pay rent, but it's fun and I know that had I not had school to make impressive commercial-style projects with proper guidance to show them in order to get the unsteady work I've gotten thus far, I'd never have gotten ANY of those opportunities. I didn't want to be famous, I just wanted to do something I enjoy and get paid for it. I'd like to get paid more and make it my actual day job, but it is what it is and I'm still happy and all the work I'm doing might lead to something more substantial and I'll still probably have enough time to keep making album covers for these producers and artists I never thought I'd ever have anything to do with listening to their underground tunes in the early 90s.
As far as the teaching aspect of this video, all teachers are getting screwed, full stop. A friend of my partner's has a teaching and art degree and there's literally nothing but adjunct and she had to quit because driving hours between the two schools she was working at before the pandemic was not a schedule she could keep as a parent and then the pandemic happened and she's basically just getting a real estate degree so she can do house walkthroughs for potential buyers for commission instead. Overall, I think the quality of education in general in the US when it comes to higher education has been thoroughly gutted from truly talented and intelligent people and without masters to teach the new students, we're going to lose a lot in terms of being able to foster up and coming talent with proper guidance to become the new masters and it'll be generations to repair it.
At any rate, this one hit home for me. The only thing I didn't have to deal with was student debt because I had the GI Bill from doing 6 years of hard time in a tuna can floating in the middle east for uncle sam. I'm not sure I could handle my lack of stable life with 100,000$ of debt following me around, too.
I feel as though I’m someone who has made similar mistakes. It’s good to see someone on RUclips telling the truth about post-graduate life in a class context, instead of peddling the same bullshit “you’ve got a camera on your phone, make a movie” sentiment.
You need a crew more than anything, and crews are harder to come by if your post-Uni life is a modest one.
Don’t get me wrong, I have just recently managed to achieve something big with the things I’ve learned over the years, but it was something that only I could personally do. It wasn’t making a film, something different. I still am yet to make a film.
"Syllabi." And for what it's worth, I think you would do well teaching remotely -- students discussing film seminar style via zoom; breakout small discussions followed by larger class discussions.
From someone who did their Undergrad in Film & Media Studies at UCSB, Graduate in Cinema & Television Production at USC, and enjoyed their time in both. I can say that film school is being a bit overprescribed and also misleadingly sold. For people looking to simply get into the industry or work on set, it's much cheaper and faster to go to either a trade school or workshop that focuses on things like camera work, lighting, electrical, set building, VFX, etc. The number one thing I saw in students was that many had been sold the idea that they were going into a production school when in reality they were going to spend their time writing papers and talking about old/foreign films they had no interest in. That's not to say those things are bad (I personally enjoyed that aspect because I initially wanted to be a critic/theoretician like Andre Bazin or someone), but I know many young people want to actually make films and not just ponder them.
For people wanting to go into more above-the-line or "creative" fields, understand that even if you do get into a school that's production-focused and not studies focused you might still find some things lacking. Universities and Trade Schools are honestly a mixed bag when it comes to teaching the craft of filmmaking because there's a lot more emphasis on the technical aspects and very little on artistic ones. To clarify what that means: they will teach you something like editing but what that means is that they'll essentially make sure you know how to use Avid Media Composer and Premiere Pro, not necessarily how to create impactful rhythm/timing in a scene or how certain cuts make people feel. These kinds of classes are great if you're trying just to get some technical familiarity with tools, or if your goal is to work more on the crew side of filmmaking such as a gaffer or assistant editor. If you're looking more for things like finding your creative voice, growing as an artist, working with actors, or putting what's in your head onto a more tangible field; you'd most likely have a better time in Art, Theater, or Writing departments as those are designed to pull the creativity out of you.
Despite all of these drawbacks, film school still can be a benefit if you know what to look for. As mentioned in the video, access to equipment and networking are probably the biggest things films schools have in their favor. Both of these things are highly dependent on what school you go to as some have more resources and connections than others. A school like University of Arizona probably won't have the same industry opportunities as say LA City College simply for the fact that one has easier access to the physical location of the industry than the other. The other great resources are the flexibility and the students themselves. Unlike workshops, online courses, & trade schools where you won't usually get a lot of interaction with other people, Uni's provide you the opportunity to get the hardest part of making a film for young people: the crew. Being in a place where you can potentially have access to AT LEAST 15 other movie nerds, all aching to make something, can be a godsend especially if you're 18, broke, and don't have access to a professional crew. Also, keep in mind that the other benefit to undergrad is that a lot of those earlier issues I mentioned can be supplemented by taking courses outside of your film major. Theater classes are great at learning how to be a director and working with a crew, many digital art classes are now teaching the basics of editing software & 3D design, a good photography class will honestly teach 85% of what you would be learning in a cinematography class. Undergrad can suck sometimes because you can feel like you can't just focus on the one thing you want to learn, but the upside is that you still have the ability to diversify your skills whereas most other education outlets really want you to just specialize.
Overall, this is all just a long-winded way of saying that it really depends on if you should go to film school or not. I work in the industry, also grinding towards pushing myself higher, & I've met people who didn't go to school and are glad they didn't, who did and wouldn't be as successful without it, people who wish they went, people who wish they hadn't. It really all depends on what you want, where you are in life, and what hand life and the system deal you. Personally, I'm thankful for my education because it's made me a better and more skilled filmmaker than I think I would've been without it, it introduced me to worlds of cinema I never would have known about, it taught me ways of looking at and discussing film that goes beyond just talking about pretty shots, and it introduced to so many friends and colleagues that I'll probably have for the rest of my life. However, I can't honestly tell you that it's an overall good deal. If things were different and I didn't have scholarships to cover a lot of those extreme expenses, I don't know if I'd feel as optimistic as I do now. I think everyone deserves a chance to do what they want and if you wanna study film you should be able to, just know that there are other routes than just the singular one you've been told and find what's right for you.
For anyone who's still there. here's some advice when looking into film schools.
-Understand what kind of school it is. It's messed up to expect 17-18 y.o.'s to look into every facet of a school but it's, unfortunately, the reality. Many kids make the mistake of misinterpreting Film Studies/Cinematic Arts/Media Studies/whatever they wanna call it as meaning Film Production. If you're looking to actually hold a camera and produce some shorts, make sure that's what the school offers so you don't end up realizing you'll be writing academic papers for the next 4 years.
-Broaden your goals and somewhat know what you like. The meme amongst all film school faculty is that if you have a class of 80 freshmen, 75 are gonna say they want to be a director and the other 5 are going to be employed in the future. That's a messed up joke, but I think it does catch onto a real thing I saw in school which was that many people weren't aware of all the aspects of filmmaking and simply latched onto directing. I've met so many people now who wasted their time trying to work towards being a director because that was the only real job they knew about for movies, till they realized they loved being an editor, or sound designer, or producer, or art director, etc. Filmmaking is such a varied art form, so don't be afraid to look into other avenues and let that guide where you go.
-Don't let the status be a major factor. I know in highschool the goal is to get into as high of a university as you can, but the thing most people learn after graduating is that it's not really the university that's important, but the school within it. I worked with people who have gone to super prestigious schools like Yale or the University of Chicago and found their education very lacking because their film departments were either barely existent or super lackluster. Meanwhile, you can look at a place like CSU Fullerton which is a fairly average school but is known throughout the industry as having a fantastic animation program. There are a lot of quality programs out there that from smaller schools that can give what you need without the increased stress and money burning as the top universities.
-The top universities are a bit complicated. Places like USC, UCLA, Tisch, AFI, and the other big guys both are and are not worth it. The best way to put it is that these schools have the method of just throwing their students in the deep end because they really expect you to already know what you want. That can mean things like they want you to know already what field of filmmaking you wanna work in, what types of stories you want to tell, and what paths do you see yourself taking for your career. This method can be very beneficial if you have those things in mind, but it can also completely waste your time since it's essentially asking you to start running the moment you get in and it can be very easy to feel like you're lagging behind if you need to familiarize yourself with filmmaking or just simply take the time to figure out what you want. You can either come out with a lot or not much at all and for the extreme price tags those schools have, it may not be worth it to make that gamble and instead try for places that will nurture you as a filmmaker more.
Wow, great summary. I studied science and it’s really interesting to see how the divide between theoretical and practical plays such a big role in other areas. Where I live, a science degree doesn’t qualify you to work in science unless it’s an applied degree, but it does open the door to future study. That can be more or less helpful depending on what you actually want!
Man I can’t tell you how much I appreciate this rn. I’m 20yrs old going on 21 and still figuring things out w what I want to do and I have been trying to find smth to get me into directing for a while now but you really opened my eyes about other parts of film making. I still think I want to be apart of the directing side of film/screenplay writing but I’d love to experience the other aspects of making a film. The only thing is is that I don’t think film school is an option for me so I’m not so sure how to find my way into the industry and get a hands on feel for it. But all that to say that I appreciate your words man, I found this very helpful.
I had a good friend who went to his grave three years ago almost to the day, and he had an MFA from CalArts in film, television, and theatre directing from the early '90s, no full time job, $75,000 in student loan debt, and he had NEVER FINISHED EVEN ONE FILM, not even his student film. As far as I know, his highest paying gig in film was as an actor playing a doctor in an Army training film who had to tell a soldier that he had VD, and yes, it was called "VD" back then. He complained that all his fellow students wanted him to be the sound guy because he had a reputation for being good at it and doing a good job. I told him he should have done that, and he simply told me "It wasn't what I wanted to do." I figured he had unrealistic goals, expecting that someone would hire him to direct something when he'd never finished a production of his own before, and doing sound work would have been a way to make a living in film. It's easy for me to say that he should have done it, but I get the idea that even if they teach the technical side of making films, they don't teach students how to make good career decisions. Working as the sound editor would certainly have been better than being a production assistant, another job he was apparently offered and turned down. I thought he just completely and unjustifiably dismissed trying to make commercials, industrial films, or music videos because he wanted to create high art. Well, that's not what sells, unfortunately, and his parents weren't wealthy, so he should have gone where the money was and then made whatever he wanted on his own dime and time. I wondered if there were a lot of other guys like him who expected to direct, wouldn't budge or compromise just to network and get what they want later, and ended up not working in their field, but the more I thought about it, the more I think that it was a longshot anyway, and he hadn't prepared himself adequately for the likelihood of not getting what he wanted. Cal Arts really somehow convinced him that he was going to follow a conventional career path, and I think they share at least some of the blame, even though he definitely could have done a lot more to help himself. It's tragic, and I wish things had been better for him, but his story is over now.
Currently in film production year 2. We learn EVERYTHING! The Arri cameras, sound equipment, grip equipment like the jibs, dollies etc, and editing on After Effects. Some people who’ve graduated here almost always got jobs
Yeah you're real talented at this video medium thing. Insightful takes and humorous delivery. I appreciated the capitalism-is-draining side rant; as a fresh college grad, I sure feel the weight of that crushing despair (of all day jobs I could've gotten though, I'm pretty alright with the one I got). Thanks for making the things you make, the way you make them!
Just in time for college applications, thank you for the perfect timing and giving an insight into this topic by sharing your experience
Regardless of the subject, you bring such level-headedness to any discussion. Thank you.
This video essay reminds me of my time earning my performing arts degree, so thanks for making me feel better about it. Also, I would have ragged at that film teacher for yelling at your classmate because they liked the film, art is suppose to make you feel something first and foremost.
Agreed. Perhaps the professor could have responded by challenging the student to articulate what it was about the film that made it effective.
I had a figure drawing teacher who was much the same. Only wanted objective critiques, no subjective comments.
Can we have the rom com video essay, pretty please? :) Sounds like a great one.
I would LOVE to see a video essay on The Thing I've seen it twice now and I love how it builds tension so much
Can I just say, this video was so beautiful and cathartic to me? I just graduated from college this past June, and while my academic experience was quite different from yours (I majored in Economics - crazy immigrant parents wouldn't hear of anything "impractical" - and was lucky enough to snag a job my senior year), there was so much about your experience and reflection that resonated with me. There were definitely moments where I questioned the validity of my education, no matter how supposedly prestigious it was, and certainly many parties/social opportunities that I regret missing out on. But I'm also incredibly grateful that I was able to spend four years just exploring and learning about the things that interested me, and become a more knowledgeable and open-minded individual - without the daily adult worries of cooking, rent, and transportation (though the student debt isn't fun, of course). As a recent grad, it's nice having these complex feelings shared by an older person, especially when it's one of my favorite RUclipsrs. Thanks for the content :)
I went to a university for animation, and while the degree certainly helped with the networking aspect, the real employable skills were gained in a technical school online that purely focused on character animation. I loved hearing your thoughts on college in general, I think you really hit a common thread that many can feel after graduating.
As someone who currently works customer service and looks back on her visual art degree with a long complicated sigh, thanks.
I wasn't really contemplating going to film school but still i'm watching this video
Oh my gosh, baby Serge! 😄 So much of college is hard to justify sometimes, especially if you're getting an arts degree. Like yeah, hard sciences are going to teach you important things, but you're definitely right that anything involving film or literature or history can be studied for free on one's own time. For me the benefit of University was the social aspects - I was able to start coming out of my shell and find my people. Would have been nice if I didn't have to spend so much money on that, but still...
I'm currently teaching film studies at a university in Germany and I must say, so much of those complaints are not just about capitalism, but particularly about the US system. I feel really bad for you guys in the US, because this kind of calculation isn't something a 17 year-old should be expected to do. There are very few courses in this world that are financially "worth it" when they cost this much, and anything in the arts is never gonna be one of them.
I would also say that there is a difference between film studies and film school. Here in Germany the second isn't even a university course, but something offered by "techinal schools". If what you wanted to do was become a filmmaker, then I suppose you did choose the wrong degree. I hope the university didn't lie to you/give you false expectations in that regard. You are clearly very good at doing the kind of thing film *studies* courses are designed to train you to do: analyze movies. I for one am very happy you do the work you do, and I hope you are not disappointed in yourself for having followed a different path than you had envisioned. Though you said as a student it wasn't clear to you what teachers expected from you, I can say that the work you do is exactly the kind that I would expect from a (great) film studies graduate. I have used your video essay on Gone With the Wind in one of my classes btw. The students loved it.
The ad for the online film academy in the middle of this video is ironic 😂.
Thank you for the book list.
Thanks for this video. I'm applying to colleges right now, specifically film and video production programs, and basically everything you're talking about is going through my brain. I know for certain I want to do something creative, and movies and film study have been my main interest for all of high school. I'm still stuck on whether I want to go to my state university with its tiny, brand new video production program that I'm not sure will even have the classes I want, or the expensive reputable out of state college that will leave me 300k in debt but with better tools and connections (that is, if I get in to either of these schools).
I don't really want a Hollywood job, and maybe I won't even end up wanting a career in film at all, but I want to go somewhere that will enable me to create stories and learn the most effectives ways to tell narratives. It's hard knowing that my interests will probably change in the next 4 years, and any school that isn't a community college with limited film classes probably won't be worth the price tag.
No matter what happens, I'm glad that you're willing to share your experience. It makes me feel better that someone whose work inspired me to develop my interest in film had to face a similar conundrum and came out on the other side without giving up hope. Thank you!
The 300 K debt you mentioned offhandedly is giving me conniptions. US college are so expensive it's crazy. And it sucks that you have to make such major life decisions with so little preparation and at such a young age.
I was going to chime in with some life advice, but honestly I'm the last person that should be giving advice to other people on what to do with their lives. So... Good luck?
Go to the community college and take the limited film classes just to see if that's something you like. Give yourself time and exposure to see how your interests change and then transfer to a 4 year if that's where your interests take you.
Maybe you'll take a limited cc film class and love it and it'll cement that career goal in your head.
Or maybe you'll take a computer science elective and realize that's where your new passion lies.
Best thing you can do is expose yourself to a lot of options and see which ones stick.
And then realize that getting paid to do what you love as a daily grind day job is a good way to learn to hate what you love and now you understand that line about capitalism in this video...
I'm in the same boat as you. So lemme tell you, I am currently getting my associates degree in Film/Tv at community college for only $12 a class! My plan is to stay there for two years then eventually go to a university or specialized school for my bachelors. But right now, I'm a part of my college's film club and I was able to work with a crew for the first time and direct my own short film! That experience alone taught me a lot and gave me the freedom to explore my creative abilities. My director of photography is 28 years old and stays at community college because of their work experience course and the fact that he is already getting paid to film for real companies says he didn't need film school. One of my actors is in her 30s, graduated at a prestigious Calstate with a major in Communications, but came back to community to explore film! Community college is a good place to start in my opinion and gives you time to hone your craft.
I did take a few really awesome classes like the ones you imagined (I took classes like "The Vampire in Fiction" and "Black Queer Pop Culture" and I even got to teach a Literature class senior year about queer erotic fiction) but a lot of what I learned in Literature and Feminist Studies degrees is just the same as what you're describing about film school
I loved my "esthetic and history of cinema" studies. They were a total waste of time if you think about them as a usefull thing to get a career. But to my big surprise, they are very usefull almost every day in my job in communication. How to analyze a storytelling or an image, how an image can convey way more than a bad written obligatory catch line, etc.
(Oh, it was not in the US, so I didn't had to get in debt to study even if I had to pay myself...)
16:30 In my college, most classrooms have a projector and a screen so you actually could pull up clips from whatever thing you're talking about and play it for the class.
As a person with a degree that doesn't guarantee a job in the field, who also does not know what to do next... I felt this video.
I went to University of Iowa. I was not a film major, but I took genres- Westerns from the film school. Our discussion were mainly about how Westerns reflected popular conceptions of how the US wanted to think of itself & how the tropes that define Westerns show up elsewhere & how we make the distinction.
this is like... kinda depressing just bc of the state of america but also kind of reassuring to me (22 yo dropout now going to community college). im not even studying film, but just the reassurance that college is not in fact magic and im not a total idiot for failing. thank u
realizing 2011 was ten years ago… oh man oh man
Your 'The Dinosaurs' video made me subscribe, the rest of your videos made this my new favorite RUclips Chanel! Keep up the good work.
I’ve never studied film in my degree (which was totally unrelated) but WOW i would’ve loved to be taught by you!! I love the way you talk and the way you articulate your thoughts, it’s so engaging and respectful and clean. Can i just ask, what sorts of jobs did you do after graduation to get by? And how do you think most filmmakers actually get their jobs?
Wait, you read the Animorphs series? I notice the books behind you. Not sure if they've been there a while and I just noticed it or not. I am obsessed with that "children's" series so much.
You should look back at his older videos... ruclips.net/user/coldcrashpicturessearch?query=animorphs
My high school had a social studies class, "American Society and Film" that I think you would have loved. It was probably my introduction to film studies, and allowed me as someone who struggled badly with any sort of history class to actually connect to the material. And a huge part of the class was actually watching films, clips, montages and discussing what was going on, why things were the way they were, etc. It's the class that killed my ability to watch anything "fullscreen" as well xD.
Your approach to teaching/discussing film is what I thought it would be like when I joined my school's film club. I wanted to talk about special effects or how the film language helped the plot or really anything other than why certain guys I had never heard of were the best people ever. If anything, going to film school definitely taught you how to avoid that style
For what you covered I think you were accurate, but one option you left out is industrial or commercial video production. While they aren't always the highest paying jobs if you like the craft they are fulfilling ways to make money doing what you like. They also get you a lot more of the experience and often get you connections into the industry over time. I did that for a long while with my crappy digital media arts degree and both enjoyed it and learned a lot.
There's also plenty of people who enjoy event/wedding videography or news videography though those can be demeaning jobs at time.
Love this. I'm having a lot of the same mixtures of frustrations for a variety of reasons, albeit in a different set of fields (... I'm pretty sure at least *one* is obvious). And it's taking me a bit longer to figure out... where I'd actually be happy, while I'm still doing the things I absolutely love (because I love building relationships with my students) and definitely hate (so much of what happens in a school can die in the biggest fire ever).
It's also kind of made me realise what I might want to do with the next couple terms of some of my classes. Or, if not those classes, then definitely in future work in the same field. (Because what you said about teaching is something I'm struggling with, even in the secondary level.)
I still haven't properly used my Film Bachelor's degree. I'm underemployed. But I had fun at school
I had film studies as my minor in university and although I enjoyed it a lot, I gotta say that I've learned so much more about it from RUclips's thriving video essay scene. Even though the professors and teachers I had were mostly good and the education I got did give a good basic grasp of the history of film, there was only so much I could learn about the cinematic language by sitting on lectures where the main teaching tool was the overhead projector. We would watch clips or entire movies (usually as home assignments) every now and then, but most of our lectures consisted of the teacher narrating an unambitious PowerPoint presentation with minimal visual references. It's one thing to do through the history of the industry from the point of view of distribution, politics, and technological innovations in this manner, but it's no good as soon as you get into the actual art of cinema or specific techniques. That's why I appreciate RUclips's video essayists so much: they're able to convey information and point of examples so much more efficiently through the video format.
I think videos like yours are going to be helpful to the next generation of filmmakers and other film enthusiasts. Learning how to analyze movies isn't going to teach anyone how to actually make one, but I think that understanding the tools of expression and the traditions of the craft is important when it comes to coining one's own artistic point of view.
This retrospective is amazing, I appreciate your really grounded hindsight on like going to college for art/passion 🙌🏾 as an animation/art major that’s still figuring out my way to create for a living I like your run down of all the honest experiences and solutions you did and didn’t get from film school, great stuff as always 😊
Huge shoutout to your reading list, I am doing research about violence in art and your horror-related materials will be very useful (I imagine)
Hi! I relate to this. I went to UChicago for college from 2013-2017, and then did that expensive Masters Program in Cinema Studies from 2020-21. I actually remember watching your UChicago Decalogue when I was first deciding whether to go there lol. I agree that UChicago is focused super heavily on theory, especially if you're in the humanities--it's definitely not a film school. And the private police force is still terrible! But some things have changed. First of all, there's all kinds of film and audio equipment you can borrow from the arts center now. They also hired a documentary filmmaker and some game designers/animators/etc. to teach a few production classes. There's also a lot more Cinema Studies PhD students interested in unorthodox stuff like video games and sound design and nonwestern media. I did my Master's thesis on the politics of Mister Rogers' Neighborhood, which was honestly a blast. But you're right--it's really hard at super academic schools, or really any schools, to make art and not just study it. I wanted to make podcasts, and I found the most success when I found an older student with the same interest as me and just hung out with her and met some of her connections. I still have a pretty on-and-off career, but I at least managed to get some internships. And now I make video essays on RUclips! Anyway, thank you for this video and keep up the great work!
Interesting both your experience and several of the comments so far really highlight how much college is the luck of the draw for the focus of the program you end up with. Glad I'm not the only one who feels some ambivalence after the process.
I had those moments too, of "was it worth it to get a university education in Biology?" "Should I have gone with plan B (engineering)?". It's quite the useless endeavour for oneself and not terribly useful for others because each life is different. I'm not working in Biology anymore but I enjoy the perspective on the world it provides me (and boy was it useful lately... I bought masks and disinfecting gel on the 15th January 2020 cause I had already learned what was going to happen one day back in 2000...). The only thing I can't weigh in my perspective is debt because I'm European and have no debt. I lived with my parents because I could commute to university and I worked weekends to cover my 40€ transport pass and the ~60€ a month of tuition.
Well, I appreciate you went to film school because you've made this channel very captivating partially with your education and knowledge. I hope you totally succeed on this channel because I could watch you talk about anything. You got the right stuff.
Love this video. I am a college prof who often gets first year or dual credit students. I tell them to talk to someone in their industry or, at the very least, a grad student. College is a weird and wonderful place but often we do not do a great job of explaining how it really works.
Eh, you still got folks that are older than you watching ;)
Keep up the amazing work you do!
Fuck...the Spielberg method is the perfect way to get any job.
Maybe it used to be, but that doesn’t really exist anymore.
I'm at the moment of my life where I should decide whether I should apply to a film school. Thanks a lot for sharing useful insides and telling about some pitfalls, that is what I've been looking for
Lindsey Ellis and Dan Olsen have a super helpful video about this topic
I think “Film School” in question should be better defined. Lindsay Ellis and Dan Olson did a video discussing the same topic: ruclips.net/video/hrxKwUi78zc/видео.html
If you only want to work on productions and not necessarily make your own film as a director, vocational/trade school is an option. Dan got jobs straight out of school and was debt free by the end of that year. Keep in mind tuition in Canada is MUCH LOWER.
Even if you're not Canadian? Isn't tuition cheaper for people who reside there than those who dont reside there?
@@nancykerrigan I don't think they're saying people should go to school in Canada, they're saying people should look into going to a trade school if they want to quickly get jobs in film. They then added the caveat that Canada has low tuition, which may explain how Dan could pay off his loans that quickly.
(But yes, international tuition is generally much higher than resident tuition.)
@@nancykerrigan U can easily get permanente residance up there by working less than a year in BC, anyways highest tuition is VFS
There is a 3rd reason to go to film school (though maybe not U Chicago film school): If you know nothing about film and need a structured environment to learn even just a few basic principles.
Recognizing the difference between bad writing, bad acting, and bad directing is not something you can easily learn from a reading list. Formal education doesn't just give you "time and space to practice", it's *guided* practice, and that guidance can be the most critical factor in what a person gains. (It sounds like UC didn't have very good guidance.)
I just love how the degree is upside down.
Thank you, this was beautiful and really struck a chord for me. At 17 I was certain I wanted to work in a creative field, be it music, theatre, television or radio, I applied for drama school, a musical theatre course and arts degrees at multiple universities. I got in to one of the arts courses.
I didn’t mind how, I just “knew” these were my people and it’s where I was “meant” to be.
I quickly learned that although I had a little bit of talent and passion, it was not enough of either to make it in industries that can be cutthroat and filled with judgement and rejection. Making a living in any part of the entertainment industry in my country is practically impossible unless you know the right people, are persistent to a fault and are plain lucky.
In retrospect, I’m glad I went in a different direction, a few years of trying to make it would have broken me, but the arts degree I’m still paying for is still of value to me, if only for the critical thinking skills it taught me and the many subjects and creators I was exposed to that I might not have otherwise seen.
Higher education can have such value in shaping us as human beings, but at the same time can be so out of step with the reality of life.
Of all of my cohort, few work in the arts, the most successful person in my group, the closest to mainstream success, was an extra in a Tarantino movie - he now manages a retail store.
I'm so glad you made that point in the end because I was absolutely commenting on it. I actually go to a "real film school" where we have barely any classes on film theory but are producing multiple projects at any time. And it took an insane amount of work to get in. I applied four times, completed an apprenticeship and an entire masters degree in the meantime, on top of multiple internships in film, working as a freelance editor for a decade and making my own short films on the side. So now I am studying to be an animation producer and - don't wanna brag but yeah, I am pretty much guaranteed a career as such, looking at my school's track record and the contacts I hava already built. However, there are huge differences to your experience. For once, I am from and study in Germany, so there is no such thing as student loan debt to worry about. My education is completely free, while my county is investing an average of 400,000€ in every single student at my uni throughout our course of study. Also, spaces are very limited and courses are super specialised. You have to apply for a specialisation like cinematograohy, series producing, film sound production, character animation, technical directing and so on and you cannot switch courses once accepted. Usually between 1 and 8 students are accepted each year per course. This way, we have the abilty to assemble a complete film team from only students from my school and everybody is a pro at their game. Of course, it is super hard to get in, but at least the amount of people that graduate can realistically all find employment afterwards and they usually do. I love that! I would recommend it to anybody who has serious intentions about working in the industry, however the degree itself isn't worth anything. If you are flexible with where and when you can work, a few years of work experience on film sets and in production companies can provide you with the same amount of insight, practice and contacts. And you will earn money and possibly travel around on top. To me that sounds like a pretty nice deal :)
My story is similar to yours, I did not get any real world lessons or any counseling on how to get a start in my field. I did work as a student aide and help print syllabuses and still had no better understanding of the curriculum. I have one instructor that I’m still connected to online that was super interesting but it seems I’ve learned more from his personal blog than I did in his class. I think social media has gifted us all, and I’m so happy you have this open platform!! 🙂-K.E.
This is by no means a solution for everyone but I found a lot of success doing a double major: anthropology and computer science. I love anthropology. It's a subject I could learn about forever. But also picking up a trade while in undergrad allowed me to change my life.
I had a very similar experience being a Lit/Creative writing major. I'm working in Journalism right now, which is perhaps the closest I'll ever get to writing for a living. So much of what you talked about here... I can relate. Cheers!
For me its simple: No.
I went to the art Institute and dropped out because half the classes were ludicrous and I only really learned from three classes out of my time there.
I'm back in college trying to get a degree in English in order to be a teacher but that's another hill to climb.
I've been looking for some books about films for awhile now, so thank you for the list!!
That film theory quote (the one that said "verisimitude" twelvty times) reminds me of that one unit of philosophy I took when studying politics at University. I was so pissed about the lack of tangibility. In politics, sure, there's a lot of opinions. But at least there were conclusions to reach.
For anyone interested in teaching at the college level, I adjunct at a stem school and it takes work. Prep, the x-factor of a live audience (and snow days.. and health concerns..), grading, student questions, etc etc etc. Also you usually don't get to decide what to teach, you're told what class you'll be teaching and you get to tweak the course. New courses are mostly made by full time faculty.
Thanks for sharing your experience!! And your reading list will become part of my daily commute :)
About that "so what?" feeling...at the end of my French New Wave course, one of my classmates asked what the point was of all the films we had to watch and my professor simply said, "There isn't one." I know he was implying we should just enjoy the experience without worrying about plot, but thank god my MA was only a year long. That said, like you I just got really good at academic writing and that's what I teach now to get by.
I'm so jealous, I actually wanted to go to University of Chicago, too. But for archaeology.
Also, for what it’s worth, Serge, if you ever did decide to go to grad school I really feel like you and your style of analysis would really vibe with JD Connor at USC.
Thanks for the reading list
I’d still like a second episode of the Fossil Fuelers
if you ever do make that video essay about the thing i will watch it so immediately, that sounds awesome
This is a great video! I always look forward to your content
WAIIIIIITTTT. I was also a Cinema and media studies (Minor) at UChicago. class of 2018. (but went to law school).
I think as someone who had absolutely no film experience or industry connections, film school has been a really amazing way to get my foot in the door. If anyone is looking at schools, my advice would be to look at programs that can provide equipment, let you keep the rights to your own work, and emphasize on-set experience. I'm interested in production (for development, internships may be more important), and I have 10000% learned more from working on set every weekend than in my classes during the week. Film school can give you equipment, and more importantly, a talented network of people around you to learn from and make cool shit with! If you feel behind like I did, there is so much the people around you have to offer, I would really consider them to be one of the most valuable parts of film school.
As a side note, make time for independent projects! I promise when you direct your thesis, any production experience you have under your belt will serve you far greater than 18 credits per semester. Also look into scholarships-a really surprising amount go unfilled every year and it's for sure the only reason I'm in school.
Even though I'm not even going to film school, your videos have actually helped me with the structure of my essays. A lot of the academic reading reads unfortunately like old chewing gum and watching well made video essays is a great help to figure out what I want my essays to be.
And since my degree will also be useless, it's very reassuring to see you still found a way to do what your passionate about, even if it isn't the big career we all like to dream about.
I'd definitely pay for a film studies class from you.
Even if this video is 100% not directed at me (happily starting a career in the fragrance industry), will always watch for your thoughts and perspective. Thank you for your videos! 🥰
I'm in a stem field but this still resonates. There's an awful lot of college that is paying for a curtailed reading list.
Also your videos are really well paced. I'm not sure if that's the right word for it but you hit the beats of your points nicely. I know you talk about scripts but I'm really curious what you could do with a long form documentary.
Yeah what no-one tells you when trying to get your foot in the door is how firmly that door is shut.
I don't know if it's something that's innate to you or if it's all about your education, but you definitely stand out from most movie critic type channels on youtube. I always love watching your take on films and it's always so fresh and different from other people I see (and I'm not shitting on them, I regularly watch a lot of them, and like them). I *like* that I actually learn a lot from you and it seems to me that a big part of that is your academic background. I don't remember what video got me into your channel but I do remember I was captivated right away. I would say that out of everyone I watch, you and Lindsay Ellis are the people I've learned the most from - and the people who have influenced me most to look deeper into one subject or another. I've watched movies on your recommendation, bought books to learn more about one thing or another that you mentioned. I guess the point of this comment is just to compliment you 😂 and say that I love what you're doing!
I ask myself similar questions about going to music school, with a similar conclusion. 👍
Hell yeah! Thank you! We deff need more content like this reaching more young people - colleges are hardly forthcoming or supportive when it comes to making their students successful (rather quick to brag about that success tho). This is also ofc my resentment talking - I spent 120$K in tuition costs alone (closer to 180$k factoring in living costs) for 3 years of animation school in the US, only to learn mid-way that I was very unlikely to get a job over a similarly talented US citizen (which, harsh, but I understand ppl choosing a cheaper option). And like... kids who'd never had job experience shouldn't be allowed to get themselves in lifelong debt based on false/missing/dishonest information.
(And yeah, I'm still watching the video, this just be a personal rant ; p)
This video couldn’t have come at a more perfect time for me. I’m thinking about switching majors at the school I go to due to a lack luster first quarter. The reality of what a film degree actually does for me is just starting to hit me. I have time to make my decision but that time is waning. I like making movies but do I really need to invest this much time and money into it? I don’t know yet. I suppose that’s what college is for though. Thank you ColdCrash, your videos have always inspired me from an analytical end of filmmaking. No matter what I choose to do with my college career, I will always love filmmaking.
Sincerely, a fan
i often felt like during my history classes we were discussing how people write about history rather than the actual history. it was also not the ideal learning experience for the subject imo. it's a little comforting (but also disappointing for us) to see other people felt the same about their college/university experiences.
Me, watching Serge address his cat: did he name his degree Tommy?
I definitely recall as a defiant English lit major raising my hand to proclaim the book was beautiful, just for shock value.
I might have skipped law school on a second go
ColdCrash confirmed for Baby's Day Out fan.
As an NYU grad, I can safely say that my degree has done jack shit for me. Anyone that's had any success has had either familial connections or lots and lots and lots of money to get their stuff out there.
I would go back to university to watch you teach a course on film... and I have no ambition to become anything film-industry-related whatsoever. I love your "random musings".
I hope you don't mind if I put this here. I'm about five years out of college. I have a BFA in digital communication arts and a minor in theater arts. I turned to DCA, which encompasses film, journalism, game design, etc because I thought that being a voice actor wouldn't cut it financially. I feel a lot of regret for how I handled my career at school. I was an angry, lonely, confused kid who was dealing with a lot of personal issues that weren't sorted out. I didn't really know what I was doing and I didn't really explore what I liked about film. I settled on editing because I was afraid of becoming a director. When it comes to anything remotely creative, I feel almost paralyzed with fear to put myself out there. Not always mind you, but for my own ideas, I'm afraid to begin sometimes. Now, I feel like a failure for what I didn't do. I didn't do enough in school or my free time, I didn't make enough connections or friends because I was afraid and cynical about others's intentions. It now feels like I'm playing catch up to everyone else.
Having majored in communication science and media studies, I relate to this content so much! But at the same time I think humanities and social studies in general leave you with this feeling of purposelessness in the job market and the careers they advertise are valid for a small minority of graduates.
The key is to broaden your spectrum of possibilities and do something that is not directly related to your studies, but ideally where you can apply some of the knowledge (mostly soft skills) you gathered in a satisfactory way.
You 🤝 me
Cinema and Media Studies majors
I graduated with a film studies degree from the University of Minnesota in 2000, and just finished paying off my student loans in 2019. No film production, just theory. I tell people that my degree taught me how to watch movies very, very well. I joke that I'm eminently qualified to tell you why all of your favorite movies suck. (I don't do this--no one likes it when you tell them that something that they like sucks. In fact, if they like a movie that I didn't, I usually respond that I'm exceptionally happy that they enjoyed it, and then tell them about something that I liked.) I feel that my film studies degree opened me to watching films from decades, regions, and genres that I never would have otherwise, and that made it worth it to me.
I studied audiovisual production in a communication career that was 1/4 Journalism, 1/4 RRPP and 1/4 Advertising; and I think I got a better film education, I did made shorts; and today I'm unemployed living with my parents. I think I second the "you don't need a degree to make film" but it was a good run, depression included
You are amazing for posting the reading list. I am in a completely different career but have been trying to understand and read more into Media because it plays such a big part in our lives. Thank you so much for letting those who want to learn access your reading list. I had been looking for something like this! Big love
I was two classes away from a film minor (theory, not practice) and didn't do it because: I would have had to stay another term; what good was a film minor?
I absolutely loved my courses, and every one of them was one or two days of class and one film (most at the amazing film archive theater) every week. This was the 90s and they still managed to show clips in class, even if it was on a roll-in TV.
That's where I read The Society of the Spectacle, which I'm sure I misquote, but loved very much at the time.
I think about this question all the time but as someone with an animation degree - same sentiments tho lol I think that just how studying the arts is