Louie is talking to consumers, while Brady is talking to creators, more specific the Church. So as consumers we should mind how we spend our time and don't scroll our lives away. But as Churches we should use these platforms to spread the good news and bring some positivity and provoking thoughts on there. For the user the Algorithm tries to keep us scrolling, but for the church we can reach way more people.
I get what you’re saying, but I don’t think it can be divided as cleanly as that. Because if there’s merit to The Church sharing The Good News to the world online, then there’s merit to me hearing edifying messages and The Good News online as well. Not purely as an outreach tool. But as a tool to align my own heart to Jesus and The Gospel even as I already follow Him. Just as I need the message every Sunday from the pulpit, I can benefit from the message in the 167 hours beyond Sunday service as well each week.
I think one of the main considerations needed when thinking about social media for Christians is the fact that we are talking about two different things when we say social media. One of those things is consumption and the other is creation. Christians should for sure be creating content for social media. But we have to be aware of our consumption. For too long I nursed a social media addiction under the guise of being engaged in social media as a Christian. Since I've pulled back, I have created more.
It’s hard to delineate creation versus consumption since you don’t ever (responsibly) create content for someone else to not consume. There’s a purposeful relationship between both ideas.
Thanks for this Brady. Thoughtful and balanced take. What a gut shot to all the social media folks employed by Passion Conference and Passion City Church to hear their pastor say that.
I’m a Christian and I felt social media became pointless to me about a year ago. I could see no value in it, sure I could connect with friends and share Christian stuff, my testimony etc. However I realised social media is a empty void that hooks us into dopamine addiction. The time I’ve spent on it I could actually be just reading my Bible and praying and really growing is way more healthier than Facebook for me.
Thank you so much for your balanced analysis, and the fact that you give Giglio props for some of what he's doing. I also appreciate your position that using the communications tools available to us to spread God's message is a critically important part of our responsibilities as Christians. Can you imagine how wonderful a place TikTok, Instagram, RUclips could be if every church was sharing the gospel there, with their own flavour and personalitiy! Rather than dismissing the "attention economy" why don't we jump on the creator economy band wagon, and even use monetization as another income stream for our churches? Thanks again Brady, I have followed you for quite a few years and always appreciate your take on where we stand. Keep doing the amazing work you are doing!
Hey! Some unsolicited video advice if you'd like LOL. It seems like your bitrate settings aren't high enough, you're getting some blocking compression artifacts when you're moving around like at 6:42 - for 4k video I try not to go under 25mbps . Audio could use a touch of dereverb, but sounds nice and crispy per usual :)
I agree 100% with you, Brady. We were given dominion over this Earth. God wants His people and His message everywhere, even and especially on social media. Why would Christ followers leave any space to be overrun by the enemy?
It's not often that I see a balanced and fair critique, on social, of a Christian leader's comments, but you've done it here, Brady. Thanks. May others follow in your footsteps.
The fact that the audience wanted to 'rate their rizz' is telling of the impact of social media. I don't know if Giglio expected that. Great message from Giglio, and great message from you as well. Haha
I’m stuck in the middle because I agree with both messages. I agree with Louie because he’s not wrong. Most of our attention is given to pointless things. He’s calling for our attention to be fixed on Christ. I agree with you, Brady, because social has great power to spread the message of the gospel in ways we’ve not seen before and we need to take advantage of it. I don’t believe Louie is attacking discovery algorithms. He’s attacking the attention suck that those algorithms create, truly drawing our focus away from what matters most. And I don’t believe you disagree with his overall message, but with the potential subliminal message of the complete pointlessness of social. Did Louie communicate his point clearly? Doesn’t seem like it. Using language like “pointless” and “stupid” is more than likely any over exaggeration of his point. Is your response maybe overthinking what he said? I think so. I think there’s value in social and I don’t think Louie was intentionally poo-pooing on it. But I have no way of knowing either of y’all’s hearts or motives. Sorry for the long post and any perceived criticism. I appreciate what you all are doing at PCT. Keep it up!
I appreciate it! I think Louie is one of the most skilled and talented communicators we have in the Christian/Church space. He’s even leading a conference in April called SPEAK which is all about developing communicators. And for his keynote at Passion, I don’t think he’s using any words unintentionally. Which is where my critique comes from. It’s not uncommon in my experience for Christian leaders to be nuanced and balanced as they discuss a myriad of topics but to then become dogmatic and dismissive with digital - I don’t think that’s helpful IMO.
I’ll have to admit that, within context, I mostly agree with him. I’m optimistic as to the potential of social media as a platform to be redemptive and purposeful, but I like to refer to state of its current existence as a “cesspool of vanity.” 😅 In either case, it’s our problem to address by breaking the mold and elevating good news. 😁✌🏼
I try to stay away from facebook and instagram these days. I find that with RUclips you can control a bit more what you see because RUclips is more of a search engine platform... but I have to say I notice my life is better without any of these platforms.
Good points. Thanks. It is interesting that Louie’s focus highlights even greater problems. 1. Where are parents and why aren’t they the primary guides for these students? The Passion conf can’t parent kids and should not try when it comes to these types of subjects. Why? It’s too dynamic! It demands give and take in a convo so it doesn’t go too far one way or the other… the reason for this video being made! 2. Passion conf. should stick to exposing kids to the Lord THROUGH THE TEXT OF SCRIPTURE! College students need to be in the Word, not getting a pep talk on social media use! The very value of making much about Jesus is detonated by the focus of this message! C’mon Passion! Don’t go the way of Andy Stanley, embracing cultural standards and appetites! People need to stand in awe of the Lord!
Literally all of this boils down to prioritizing your life. It's as simple as that. Don't be owned by the things around you. Also, to be fair, "they" have raised a generation (I blame lazy parents) with the attention span of a goldfish, and no grit to finish what is started. That has to change. Social media doesn't help that.
I agree with Giglio, we should not let social empires determine our influence, I guess I disagree with his team. Depending on video, social, or video to share the gospel waters it down, even a message from Giglio. The point of the Gospel, sound teaching, and preaching is life-change for the Kingdom. For me, it's a conversation I'm not as gifted in messaging on social media. I was a youth pastor for nearly a decade and now I manage all the media for a large nonprofit (for the last 7 years.) NOTHING PERSONALLY outweighs a conversation with face-to-face, one on one interaction with soul, purpose, and direct obedience to the call of every believer to the Great Commission. Your tools and platforms are AWESOME. but for me social media is a shotgun approach to the Gospel, as is Loui's social presence on it, however, I think it is vital for a GOOD first impression. HEAVEN HOPEFULLY PROVES ME WRONG! It may be the only way for some. It's I've always admired your drive and have nothing but respect for you and what you've done for churches. I thank God for you, keep going. Don't ever question what you bring to the table. The Gospel just needs to get out! If one person believes as a result of the infinite "gospel" posts created... it is all worth it.
You just defined what social media’s purpose is in your eyes - which I respect. Understanding where it fits and aligns with a church’s mission is very different than dismissing it as “absolutely pointless.”
I have been saying it for years: the internet is our analog for the Greek marketplace. If Jesus and Paul brought the Gospel to the center of their culture, why on Earth are we snubbing our center of culture? Since there is not a single electron of the internet outside of God’s sovereignty, we should enter that space boldly.
I think Louie is addressing the regression to the mean you see with these discovery algorithm services. Yeah, you can get your message out there but what are the discovery rates compared to funny dog videos. That difference is going to mean something when a Christian or even non Christian sees 100 short clips during a tiktok session and only 1-10% are Christian content and not funny dog videos. because the exposure to the silly videos might outnumber the Christian videos. I think you would need to see how your content is being viewed and compare it to total viewed content in a target audience to claim its either valid or just silly. Is there any way to do that? To see that kind of metric?
I’ve found the discovery algorithms very targeted. The topics covered are what I want to see. Because their incentive is to keep you on the platform so they show you what you want. Now, if the videos on your FYP are satisfying non-edifying desire, then that says more about your own viewing habits than the algorithms. They’re simply a mirror of what you say you want.
@@prochurchtools , That non edifying desire line is good, and also illustrates a kind of double speak we see with these platforms though. Tiktok doesn't give you what you want, it gives you what you'll react to or what you are likely to react to. The kind of curration needed to organically get christian content in the main feed would ruin the user experience of the app. People don't use these apps to curate they use them for enjoyment and the app curates to that enjoyment for them, and that a different kind of thing than discipleship.
Louie Giglio saying "rate your rizz" at Passion Conference was admittedly not on my 2023 bingo card. 💀
Louie is talking to consumers, while Brady is talking to creators, more specific the Church. So as consumers we should mind how we spend our time and don't scroll our lives away. But as Churches we should use these platforms to spread the good news and bring some positivity and provoking thoughts on there. For the user the Algorithm tries to keep us scrolling, but for the church we can reach way more people.
I get what you’re saying, but I don’t think it can be divided as cleanly as that. Because if there’s merit to The Church sharing The Good News to the world online, then there’s merit to me hearing edifying messages and The Good News online as well.
Not purely as an outreach tool. But as a tool to align my own heart to Jesus and The Gospel even as I already follow Him. Just as I need the message every Sunday from the pulpit, I can benefit from the message in the 167 hours beyond Sunday service as well each week.
Thank you for sharing. We are a small church, and our ultimate purpose is to share the gospel on social media.
I have been doing that.
I think one of the main considerations needed when thinking about social media for Christians is the fact that we are talking about two different things when we say social media. One of those things is consumption and the other is creation. Christians should for sure be creating content for social media. But we have to be aware of our consumption. For too long I nursed a social media addiction under the guise of being engaged in social media as a Christian. Since I've pulled back, I have created more.
It’s hard to delineate creation versus consumption since you don’t ever (responsibly) create content for someone else to not consume. There’s a purposeful relationship between both ideas.
@Brady You're doing a great job! Calm and clear response. Appreciate your insight
Thanks for this Brady. Thoughtful and balanced take. What a gut shot to all the social media folks employed by Passion Conference and Passion City Church to hear their pastor say that.
hi. not a gut shot. i totally agree with louie on this. and I like Brady's take on a lot of this too! love the discussion.
Love your balanced view! Thanks!!
I’m a Christian and I felt social media became pointless to me about a year ago.
I could see no value in it, sure I could connect with friends and share Christian stuff, my testimony etc. However I realised social media is a empty void that hooks us into dopamine addiction.
The time I’ve spent on it I could actually be just reading my Bible and praying and really growing is way more healthier than Facebook for me.
Thanks Brady
Thank you so much for your balanced analysis, and the fact that you give Giglio props for some of what he's doing. I also appreciate your position that using the communications tools available to us to spread God's message is a critically important part of our responsibilities as Christians. Can you imagine how wonderful a place TikTok, Instagram, RUclips could be if every church was sharing the gospel there, with their own flavour and personalitiy! Rather than dismissing the "attention economy" why don't we jump on the creator economy band wagon, and even use monetization as another income stream for our churches? Thanks again Brady, I have followed you for quite a few years and always appreciate your take on where we stand. Keep doing the amazing work you are doing!
Appreciate it, Pastor 🙏
Love this. Everything has a good and a bad. We can’t just stop using the free tools that are available because is stupid….
Brady, you just keep getting better. Great, measured response and thoughts. Thank you.
🫡
Hey! Some unsolicited video advice if you'd like LOL. It seems like your bitrate settings aren't high enough, you're getting some blocking compression artifacts when you're moving around like at 6:42 - for 4k video I try not to go under 25mbps . Audio could use a touch of dereverb, but sounds nice and crispy per usual :)
Yeah, these are exported at 80mbps. Will watch for it in the future though!
I agree 100% with you, Brady. We were given dominion over this Earth. God wants His people and His message everywhere, even and especially on social media. Why would Christ followers leave any space to be overrun by the enemy?
It's not often that I see a balanced and fair critique, on social, of a Christian leader's comments, but you've done it here, Brady. Thanks. May others follow in your footsteps.
🫡
Really good man. I appreciate the balanced viewpoint.
Classy response Brady. Thanks.
The fact that the audience wanted to 'rate their rizz' is telling of the impact of social media. I don't know if Giglio expected that. Great message from Giglio, and great message from you as well. Haha
I’m stuck in the middle because I agree with both messages. I agree with Louie because he’s not wrong. Most of our attention is given to pointless things. He’s calling for our attention to be fixed on Christ.
I agree with you, Brady, because social has great power to spread the message of the gospel in ways we’ve not seen before and we need to take advantage of it.
I don’t believe Louie is attacking discovery algorithms. He’s attacking the attention suck that those algorithms create, truly drawing our focus away from what matters most. And I don’t believe you disagree with his overall message, but with the potential subliminal message of the complete pointlessness of social.
Did Louie communicate his point clearly? Doesn’t seem like it. Using language like “pointless” and “stupid” is more than likely any over exaggeration of his point. Is your response maybe overthinking what he said? I think so. I think there’s value in social and I don’t think Louie was intentionally poo-pooing on it. But I have no way of knowing either of y’all’s hearts or motives.
Sorry for the long post and any perceived criticism. I appreciate what you all are doing at PCT. Keep it up!
I appreciate it! I think Louie is one of the most skilled and talented communicators we have in the Christian/Church space. He’s even leading a conference in April called SPEAK which is all about developing communicators. And for his keynote at Passion, I don’t think he’s using any words unintentionally. Which is where my critique comes from.
It’s not uncommon in my experience for Christian leaders to be nuanced and balanced as they discuss a myriad of topics but to then become dogmatic and dismissive with digital - I don’t think that’s helpful IMO.
There is pros and cons for sure. And it can also depend on the individual too.
I’ll have to admit that, within context, I mostly agree with him.
I’m optimistic as to the potential of social media as a platform to be redemptive and purposeful, but I like to refer to state of its current existence as a “cesspool of vanity.” 😅
In either case, it’s our problem to address by breaking the mold and elevating good news. 😁✌🏼
I agree with Louie
If Social Media is pointless, why is Louie on there getting paid? He should delete all their accounts.
Never thought I'd hear Louie Giglio say the word "rizz"😂
What a time to be alive.
Which, of course, is the entire reason he said it
Is solid doctrine being preached would matter also not just numbers. Matters more than numbers. Or should i think and believe God thinks so also.
I was thinking that as I listened to him… xD
Doesn’t he(Giglio) get paid when people give him their time?
I try to stay away from facebook and instagram these days. I find that with RUclips you can control a bit more what you see because RUclips is more of a search engine platform... but I have to say I notice my life is better without any of these platforms.
Good points. Thanks. It is interesting that Louie’s focus highlights even greater problems. 1. Where are parents and why aren’t they the primary guides for these students? The Passion conf can’t parent kids and should not try when it comes to these types of subjects. Why? It’s too dynamic! It demands give and take in a convo so it doesn’t go too far one way or the other… the reason for this video being made! 2. Passion conf. should stick to exposing kids to the Lord THROUGH THE TEXT OF SCRIPTURE! College students need to be in the Word, not getting a pep talk on social media use! The very value of making much about Jesus is detonated by the focus of this message! C’mon Passion! Don’t go the way of Andy Stanley, embracing cultural standards and appetites! People need to stand in awe of the Lord!
Digital literacy, hygiene, and boundaries are all so important. Agreed.
Literally all of this boils down to prioritizing your life. It's as simple as that. Don't be owned by the things around you. Also, to be fair, "they" have raised a generation (I blame lazy parents) with the attention span of a goldfish, and no grit to finish what is started. That has to change. Social media doesn't help that.
I agree with Giglio, we should not let social empires determine our influence, I guess I disagree with his team. Depending on video, social, or video to share the gospel waters it down, even a message from Giglio. The point of the Gospel, sound teaching, and preaching is life-change for the Kingdom. For me, it's a conversation I'm not as gifted in messaging on social media. I was a youth pastor for nearly a decade and now I manage all the media for a large nonprofit (for the last 7 years.) NOTHING PERSONALLY outweighs a conversation with face-to-face, one on one interaction with soul, purpose, and direct obedience to the call of every believer to the Great Commission. Your tools and platforms are AWESOME. but for me social media is a shotgun approach to the Gospel, as is Loui's social presence on it, however, I think it is vital for a GOOD first impression. HEAVEN HOPEFULLY PROVES ME WRONG! It may be the only way for some. It's I've always admired your drive and have nothing but respect for you and what you've done for churches. I thank God for you, keep going. Don't ever question what you bring to the table. The Gospel just needs to get out! If one person believes as a result of the infinite "gospel" posts created... it is all worth it.
You just defined what social media’s purpose is in your eyes - which I respect. Understanding where it fits and aligns with a church’s mission is very different than dismissing it as “absolutely pointless.”
I have been saying it for years: the internet is our analog for the Greek marketplace. If Jesus and Paul brought the Gospel to the center of their culture, why on Earth are we snubbing our center of culture? Since there is not a single electron of the internet outside of God’s sovereignty, we should enter that space boldly.
Nice - calling out hypocrisy without calling it such
I am 32 and apparently so out of touch now that I have no idea what a rizz is.
Haha. It’s base is the word “charisma.” Basically just means how much game you have with the opposite sex.
@@prochurchtools thanks for keeping this old guy in the loop
Who is creeping in the background of your video - middle right? Can be seen from 5:55 to 6:55. But trying not to be seen!
Haha. Just one of the people on our team. We have an open office so they’re just at their desk working.
I think Louie is addressing the regression to the mean you see with these discovery algorithm services. Yeah, you can get your message out there but what are the discovery rates compared to funny dog videos. That difference is going to mean something when a Christian or even non Christian sees 100 short clips during a tiktok session and only 1-10% are Christian content and not funny dog videos. because the exposure to the silly videos might outnumber the Christian videos.
I think you would need to see how your content is being viewed and compare it to total viewed content in a target audience to claim its either valid or just silly.
Is there any way to do that? To see that kind of metric?
I’ve found the discovery algorithms very targeted. The topics covered are what I want to see. Because their incentive is to keep you on the platform so they show you what you want.
Now, if the videos on your FYP are satisfying non-edifying desire, then that says more about your own viewing habits than the algorithms. They’re simply a mirror of what you say you want.
@@prochurchtools , That non edifying desire line is good, and also illustrates a kind of double speak we see with these platforms though.
Tiktok doesn't give you what you want, it gives you what you'll react to or what you are likely to react to. The kind of curration needed to organically get christian content in the main feed would ruin the user experience of the app. People don't use these apps to curate they use them for enjoyment and the app curates to that enjoyment for them, and that a different kind of thing than discipleship.
@@mikevangoch My experience with my FYP has been very different than that.