I must confess, the game *Diablo II* is what helped me discover the katar through the Assassin character; and I've been fascinated with the weapon ever since.
@@theghosthero6173 Sorry but I have seen them in museums all over India. Can't remember which ones specifically. However there is an article 'How Old is the Katar by Jens Nordlunde' where you'll find some details.
My mother (Brahmin of Karnataka - formerly Mysore - line of South india) taught me martial arts as a kid, which I confused with being a "dumb dance" routine and largely ignored through most of my life until I learned Shaolin Gongfu from my ex-g/f's brother (who is an ordained Shaolin Fighting Monk, was featured on an old Discovery Channel documentary on the Shaolin Temple). There is a specific type of fist in which the thumb is placed between the index and middle finger and held by the ring and pinky fingers. Its usage as my mother would show me as a child, is very reminiscent of how a Katar would be used to strike vital points (marmas). That being said, I've a greater appreciation in the more recent phase of my life (my 30's - 40's) for what my mother taught me and as a spoiled 'murican, ignored, thinking it was an inferior discipline in comparison to things like Boxing, Wrestling, Muay Thai/Lethwei, etc. My first ever "love at first sight" encounters as a child was cutting my finger on an exceptionally sharp Talwar we had hanging on our living room wall. I was so small that I had to use a kiddy stool to climb atop a chair, before climbing atop the frame of the chair to reach the sword. Did I ever get a scolding (and a beating!) over my misadventure! :D It was a truly beautiful sword, a green velvet-like fabric covered the scabbard, ornate carving on the hilt and the knubby-looking guard (? It did not have a proper guard but a knob-like bit before the blade extruded), and small inlaid gems on parts of the scabbard upon gold/brass ornamental decorations. Felt a bit like the ol' Arthurian tales of a young Arthur coming upon the Sword in the Stone. That feeling of awe has always stuck by me 42 years later!
@@motagrad2836 i was hoping I could make it swap out but if not even a flat but not too thin piece of stainless steel would be a massive wrist saver :3
From what I've stumbled upon for Katar trivia... Is that they were used in tiger hunting. And as nobles came across armored foes in war, they brought their daggers with them and found them useful against armored men. Whether or not a reinforced tip came before or after... I'd wager after. But then again, a tiger's neck is pretty thick. Manuscript illustrations showing tiger hunting with one often showed the user also getting chewed on in a bloody fashion, or others also equipped with a katar helping to finish the wounded beast being grappled.
I remember when I found the Katar in Elden Ring, I immediately wrote a message "Visions of strange sort, All the more, Let there be victory" With the "What do you want?" emote
So was at my mother in law last week. My nephew, brother in law son, was playing with Ninja Turtle toys from 1990. I totally forgot the toys came with a bunch of extra "weapons" like throwing stars. My nephew held up one and asked me what it was. It was a Katar. I was like "OMG that's where i saw them" cause i always thought rhey were awesome and knew they were familiar. So basically i liked these for over 30 years
hehe, I became more familiar with katars after playing Diablo 2 (or maybe 1?). I knew of their existence before that but just enough to know what it was.
For some reason every time Matt shows a blade of any kind, I want to cut vegetables with it. I guess it’s because what I relate too, but in my mind when I see the katar I’m like “that’s a horrible way to cut carrots.”
Windlass made some at one point and I managed to get my hands on some years ago (but years after MRL was no longer carrying them) by writing them to ask if they could look around for any. In experimenting with them I found that any deviation of the wrist on impact with firm targets could cause the ends of the supporting bars to dig into my forearm, and so either deliberately holding them away from the arm or being mindful to keep a locked wrist was necessary. The mentions I found of binding them to the arm were likely for preventing this sort of issue, and I rather suspect that they would have been selected carefully to fit the user rather than one-size-fits-all. The two I received were of different sizes, with one being a bit larger than the other, and the smaller one being a very good fit for my hand/arm, and it was easier to prevent from digging during impact as a result.
Having done a bit of martial arts I know that getting a clean hit on an uncooperative and moving target is easier said than done. A less than perfectly aligned strike, with force, into something resistant like mail or a padded jacket, would produce immense turning moment on the two little hand bars which seem to have been standard. It's hard to imagine it wouldn't turn violently in the hand, however tight your grip...but they were made and carried for decades, so they must have worked. Matt mentioned in passing that the side bars assisted in stability, but they're not in the axis of the grip/rotation with a whole hand grip on the handle, so it's "less than clear" how. Some more explanation, demonstration of the mechanics would be very useful.
Assuming you have the katar in the right hand, the bar on the top of the forearm which rests to the right side of the thumb. This prevents the katar from rotating clockwise in your hand because the bar cannot pass through the base of the thumb. If the katar has an appropriately tight fit, the bar along the bottom of the forearm often/easily rests a little on the bottom left side of the forearm. Sometimes the palm of the hand even protrudes below the bar on the right side. This works to prevent counter-clockwise rotation when thrusting at a target.
Don't know if you'll read this, but the whole scissoring action of some of the katar combined with poison has always fascinated me, from a mechanical perspective, it might just be genius ngl. Considering how the mechanism works, it would make the most sense if it activates post puncture, when wrenching the blade out, pressure on the handle would cause the blades to open, deepening the wound channel and allowing the poison to interact with the blood stream, actually quite ingenious, if anything.
If you've ever thrust a blade into ballistic gel especially a torso with bone-like parts and organs you'll get why that wouldn't work. Once you've penetrated even an inch of tissue you'd need more than just the mechanism powered by your fingers to actually open it, flesh does not give, you need to cut or puncture through it especially of you don't want to damage your own weapon, even twisting puts lots of stress on the blade, it could take a bend or even break before you could get it out 🫤
@@valandil7454 i mean thats good and all, but the mechanism is always locked to the front of the two bars, meaning it will activate when you pull it out. That’s a movement you can put your whole body into
@@levivanderveen4671it's not body mechanics it's the blades themselves, the mechanism and the way you'd want it to cut and part the tissue while it's in is what wouldn't work, in order to cut they'd need some amount of movement otherwise they're just forcing themselves apart
As a tradition, during the wedding ceremony, groom carries this katar also called as Bãku in our region (karnataka). To defend from bandits or invaders during wedding procession.
I met some SCA practitioners who said that katars were one of the weapon types banned on their field. Even a wooden dowel padded version could cause serious injury. Not to mention that one fellow with two katars beat several longswords...
Very interesting: Rondel dagger - with slender blade - held icepick / handshake grip. The katar with a wide somewhat triangular blade held perpendicular to the blade, thereby having more power to punch with a wider blade. Probably the katar makes bigger wounds, while having some issues with full plate armor. Seems the difference between the two is a factor of different types of armor to defeat - apart from the stylistic choice of course.
What I find fascinating is how unique they are. Usually a Design stops being used if it is inferior, or it will get copied/there are similar inventions in other places if it is successful.
its a perfect off hand weapon due to off hand typically being more clumsy, its harder to get real force behind a left hand typical dagger without rolling your wrist. You can get amazing force with a left jab or hook with a punch, main hand typically a sword at least in India.
There is a Sikh sword fencing instructor whose first name is Sanatan and he said in a video that the Katar was designed to allow the user to strongly hold the shaft of a spear and the dagger. Otherwise the blade of the dagger sits along the shaft of the spear. If an opponent passes the spear point the katar is there in hand ready to stab them. You have polearms, perhaps you would be so kind as to investigate this claim. Much love from USA.
That's probably something he came up with himself. If everyone is carrying a blade like this it would be unlikely it would have been designed specifically for a small subgroup who carry spears. Contrary to the beleif of a lot of modern weapon nuts most people in the past weren't armed to the teeth and ready for battle, only the small minority who were working as soldiers would fall into that category.
@@TheduckwebcomicsI don’t think anyone is making the claim that a random peasant would be armed with a spear and katar to go to the town center…. The claim is that katar were designed to pair with spear. That said I think it’s more of a happy accident if such a pairing is good.
You cannot always draw a sword in time, either. If someone walks up to bumping distance, draws a knife and shanks you, you can't get your sword out in time to do anything about it. If you have a dagger in addition to your sword, you can draw your dagger at nearly the same instant your assailant draws a dagger, then duke it out, probably draw your sword as well if you get the chance.
I now live in Virginia but until I was 65 I lived in New Jersey. The basic idea on knives was that those that are mainly tools are legal but ones that are mainly weapons are not legal to carry. Thus a 3 inch folder is legal even is assisted opening. Whereas push daggers are considered only weapons.
I am curious about the katar's ability to cut/slash. There are design elements - such as the reinforcing bars, and the fact that it isn't just a round/square spike - that would lend themselves to slashing strikes. How well-documented is that use of a katar? Were cuts just used incidentally, if it fit the situation, or were they used as much as stabs/punches?
I can imagine having a wristband or bracelet with tube shaped fittings where the bars protruding back fit in, not having bindings or something around your hand to fix the bars sort of, in that way making it easy to take the knife from your sheath or pocket whatever and secure it quickly and effectively to use for punching , cutting, parrying etcetera. The fighter shown at 11 minutes has braceletsm that could also do that securing.
11:00 Why does he have two swords? I mean I get the more the better, but what's the context of this pic? Also Matt have you seen the pics and videos of the Feldlager 2023 at Brandenburg castle? IronCrown Workshop and Esther Kok as some great videos on it. Would love to see your reaction.
@@scholagladiatoriagiven how many kinds of swords Indian people had access to, could it be one is thrusting for armor and I'm the other is slashing? like Polish Hussars carrying both a szabla and a koncerz.
@@scholagladiatoria I love how people are genuinely interestedly in Indian history but that guy isn't a mughal but a Rajput. They are usually depicted wearing weapons especially when they are known warriors.
Two different styles of swords for two different purposes, yes one can do both but still here in india we like to be armed to teeth kind of thing. Nihang warriors still commonly carry two swords.
9:01 Yeah... Tulwars... You're the reason why I now own five of them. And a few hilts. Why I learned to make pipal tree based "cutler's pitch". I learned it from watching you alright!
I've always loved Indian history and martial arts, kalaripayattu's supposed to be the oldest known martial art and so many others since have been inspired by it 🙂 I'd really like to spar with a katar it's a great mix of defence and offence despite its lack of reach and the way it locks your wrist. Can we see you sparring with it please Matt? I remember you saying one of your club's instructors went for Jujutsu as well I'd like to see how they'd handle it 🙂
@@scottmacgregor3444one of the guys from my club does, as I said no I haven't yet I chose Japanese Jujutsu so I'm more used to shorter knives you can use from a grapple Kali seems to put more emphasis on speed and reach like a bantamweight boxer so the Katar makes a lot of sense
Thanks for this very instructive presentations. I have two questions: 1. The way the blade is attached to the handle looks rather frail, compared to an usual dagger, which has a "filet" going through the handle. Do you know how solid it actually was in combat? 2. How is the katar related to the kriss, which too is used like a punch-dagger but with a "pistol" grip?
I would have thought you'd touch on Katar with multiple blades. I didn't know if this was mostly deployed as a defensive parrying dagger or for offence.
I have a vague memory that I have seen Indian art showing that, but I have not seen any examples recently. It seems usually to have been used like the rondel dagger, in wrestling range, while the sword was usually used with a shield or buckler.
What about the scissor bladed katar? I've seen several in museums that have an inner blade "clamshelled" into a pair of hinged outer blades, with a mechanism that when the two bars of the grip are compressed, the outer blades open, revealing the inner..presenting 3 points to an opponent! But you don't mention this variation. Is that another video?
Most of them seem to have been made in the 19th century to sell to tourists. They do seem to have existed before that, but seem to have been a novelty rather than normal weapons.
While I doubt it was ever used historically, many years ago I had a nice reproduction of a katar where I jerry-rigged a way to have it easily accessible but get most of the benefits of being "bound" to the arm: a leather vambrace with added loops that naturally slipped over the langets as you put your hand into the grip. Worked great, regardless of historicity. But I'd be absolutely tickled to hear of anything similar in actual historical use, if anyone knows of a record of it.
I wonder if gauntlets of the period had loops that corresponded to those two steel bars, such that the dagger wouldn't turn in the fist when impacting resistance...🤔
Could they have been used with a shield in a similar manner to the dirk can be used in the highland fighting style? Youd have the advantage of a better angle of attack?
I have seen a fair number of katars. I have seen few if any where the cross pieces were held in place by separate rivets. More often the cross pieces end in square tenons which fit through square mortises in the sides. Or the holes and tenons were round, but (possibly countersunk and) peened over. One of the strangest examples, and one which I own, is a katar hilted pata like the one you mention but with a slightly reinforced tip. In that case the hilt(?) weapon absolutely has to be secured to the wielder. Otherwise torque makes it rotate uncontrollably in the hand.
Are there any manuals on using the "guard" between the top of the bars and the base of the blade to parry a swing or thrust? Also if Indian swordfighters were "weak against the thrust", how did they handle their fellows using Katars?
In the UK antique for legal or tax purposes = over 100 years old. So a WW1 knuckleduster is legal, a WW2 example is not (although there is a legal 'defence' for 'historical importance').
@@scholagladiatoria that is wild! Given the similarity in construction from 17th-20th centuries, I don't suppose that police could likely spot the difference between a true antique and a quality modern reproduction, though. I don't like how lax our weapons laws are in the U.S., but I have to admit that the UK's laws sound pretty maddeningly arbitrary and nonsensical. Is it really that hard to implement sensible regulations that account for safety instruction and licensing/registration?
There was one in the old jungle book the movie that when you squeeze the handle it would open into three blades have you seen that before or is that just a movie prop?
The wrist bars don’t prevent horizontal movement, those are to prevent vertical movement when you slash and Overall forearm protection I’m pretty sure. The Handle itself is what resists horizontal movement, since the two bars create a kind of flat surface. You can test this yourself, take a single wooden dowel in you hand and you can see how easy it is to rotate. Then take two dowels and duct tape the m together and you can see it’s is much harder to rotate if you grip is tight.
You can punch someone in head and right into into the brain quite easily compared to a normal knife, the short T handle is also easy to conceal on modern punch daggers.
Hope you recover soon from whatever cold or such you are suffering from.😷 Have been looking forward to this video for some time as I knew you would get around to them eventually ☺️
great video! just a recommendation for editing, you have a lot of background noise in the audio, use audacity noise reduction feature for free or other such feature to make your video way more enjoyable. audio is the most important in video, about 5 times more important than video quality actually
It might be possible but probably not worth the effort(since with a curved blade you want to slash wheres with a katar style handle you want to thrust).
Could katars for use have the extending bars wrapped around the arm with cloth to stabilize it in the hand or can the bars slide under chain mail sleeves to aid stability?
It seems to me that mounting long blades on katar hilts sounds like you'd end up with an unbalanced, difficult to handle weapon, have you had the chance to hold one? Do you know if they were also worn and used as "daggers", or more like swords?
Information is worng. It didn't originate in 15th Century. It is much earlier even from Gupta and Maurya period which is probably 4000 to 5000 years earlier. PeshKabz might've originated around 15th Century or somewhere around that time .
I hate to focus in on something that’s only tangentially related, but you mention medieval Europeans carrying daggers in addition to their swords. With regards to that, why do you think some prominent euro hema personalities have been so vocally against longsword tournaments allowing (or requiring) the carrying of a backup dagger. This is something that is occasionally done in North America tournaments but whenever I see it mentioned on reddit or Facebook it’s always put down as nonsense.
Awesome video! I was first introduced to katars by playing Diablo II as a teenager, where it was the class-specific weapon for the assassin class. Would love to hear more about them, such as the scissor katar and more fruity varieties. I love how varied and imaginative Indian weaponry is, really enjoy your content relating to that!
I know about them, but have never seen an antique example. I'm not honestly sure they were ever used in warfare - they seem to be associated with displays and shows.
There are certainly katars with single-edged sword blades fitted in the hilts. I cannot recall if I have ever seen one which was made from the outset to have a single edge.
I must confess, the game *Diablo II* is what helped me discover the katar through the Assassin character; and I've been fascinated with the weapon ever since.
Same here.
It likely originated in the Vijayanagara empire in South India. Kalaripayattu practitioners still train with a form of Katar.
I have seen sculptures from 10-12th Century (which predates Vijaynagar empire) with Katars, pretty much all over India.
@@ronitdhanphole Interesting. Sounds like it goes back to the classical era.
@@ronitdhanpholedo you have a way I could find these sculptures?
@@theghosthero6173 Sorry but I have seen them in museums all over India. Can't remember which ones specifically.
However there is an article 'How Old is the Katar by Jens Nordlunde' where you'll find some details.
@@ronitdhanpholewhat r u on about there's one in the museum of nampally assembly area I saw it my self
My mother (Brahmin of Karnataka - formerly Mysore - line of South india) taught me martial arts as a kid, which I confused with being a "dumb dance" routine and largely ignored through most of my life until I learned Shaolin Gongfu from my ex-g/f's brother (who is an ordained Shaolin Fighting Monk, was featured on an old Discovery Channel documentary on the Shaolin Temple).
There is a specific type of fist in which the thumb is placed between the index and middle finger and held by the ring and pinky fingers. Its usage as my mother would show me as a child, is very reminiscent of how a Katar would be used to strike vital points (marmas).
That being said, I've a greater appreciation in the more recent phase of my life (my 30's - 40's) for what my mother taught me and as a spoiled 'murican, ignored, thinking it was an inferior discipline in comparison to things like Boxing, Wrestling, Muay Thai/Lethwei, etc.
My first ever "love at first sight" encounters as a child was cutting my finger on an exceptionally sharp Talwar we had hanging on our living room wall. I was so small that I had to use a kiddy stool to climb atop a chair, before climbing atop the frame of the chair to reach the sword. Did I ever get a scolding (and a beating!) over my misadventure! :D
It was a truly beautiful sword, a green velvet-like fabric covered the scabbard, ornate carving on the hilt and the knubby-looking guard (? It did not have a proper guard but a knob-like bit before the blade extruded), and small inlaid gems on parts of the scabbard upon gold/brass ornamental decorations.
Felt a bit like the ol' Arthurian tales of a young Arthur coming upon the Sword in the Stone. That feeling of awe has always stuck by me 42 years later!
I'm a former massage therapist and I've always wanted to make a massage tool based on a katar. That handle design type would do wonders I feel 🤔
Good idea, but maybe change the blade tip somewhat. ;-)
Roller instead of a blade?
Knobby roller?
@@motagrad2836 i was hoping I could make it swap out but if not even a flat but not too thin piece of stainless steel would be a massive wrist saver :3
I’m sure your patients will feel wonders as well…for better or worse 😊
Ribbed for your pleasure x)
From what I've stumbled upon for Katar trivia...
Is that they were used in tiger hunting. And as nobles came across armored foes in war, they brought their daggers with them and found them useful against armored men. Whether or not a reinforced tip came before or after... I'd wager after. But then again, a tiger's neck is pretty thick. Manuscript illustrations showing tiger hunting with one often showed the user also getting chewed on in a bloody fashion, or others also equipped with a katar helping to finish the wounded beast being grappled.
Voldo has entered the chat
Soul Calibur 😍😍😍
Fun fact: Voldo is from Palermo, Sicily.
Been playing too much Baldur's Gate 3, so I initially read your comment as "Volo" and was very confused.
I remember when I found the Katar in Elden Ring, I immediately wrote a message
"Visions of strange sort,
All the more,
Let there be victory"
With the "What do you want?" emote
**creepy ballgag/gas mask thing noises**
So was at my mother in law last week. My nephew, brother in law son, was playing with Ninja Turtle toys from 1990.
I totally forgot the toys came with a bunch of extra "weapons" like throwing stars.
My nephew held up one and asked me what it was. It was a Katar. I was like "OMG that's where i saw them" cause i always thought rhey were awesome and knew they were familiar.
So basically i liked these for over 30 years
I remember that😂, those “extra” weapons were all brown, right?
hehe, I became more familiar with katars after playing Diablo 2 (or maybe 1?). I knew of their existence before that but just enough to know what it was.
@@torianholt2752 yes they were
Memory unlocked! I think it was easy to forget about the extras since they weren't the individual turtles' signature weapons.
omg I googled "ninja turtles katar" and saw my long forgotten childhood toy!
For some reason every time Matt shows a blade of any kind, I want to cut vegetables with it. I guess it’s because what I relate too, but in my mind when I see the katar I’m like “that’s a horrible way to cut carrots.”
Because you are supposed to go "Stabby-Stabby", not " Slicey-Slicey" .
but a fun way to carve a pumpkin!
Eventually I'll have to get one of your antique swords. Next time I'm in England, you'll have to show me your trade.
Hi mate, good to see you here :-)
@@scholagladiatoria Thanks for the good content 👍🏻
@scholagladiatoria glad to see you two getting along. Such open mindedness is nice to see.
Windlass made some at one point and I managed to get my hands on some years ago (but years after MRL was no longer carrying them) by writing them to ask if they could look around for any. In experimenting with them I found that any deviation of the wrist on impact with firm targets could cause the ends of the supporting bars to dig into my forearm, and so either deliberately holding them away from the arm or being mindful to keep a locked wrist was necessary. The mentions I found of binding them to the arm were likely for preventing this sort of issue, and I rather suspect that they would have been selected carefully to fit the user rather than one-size-fits-all. The two I received were of different sizes, with one being a bit larger than the other, and the smaller one being a very good fit for my hand/arm, and it was easier to prevent from digging during impact as a result.
Having done a bit of martial arts I know that getting a clean hit on an uncooperative and moving target is easier said than done.
A less than perfectly aligned strike, with force, into something resistant like mail or a padded jacket, would produce immense turning moment on the two little hand bars which seem to have been standard.
It's hard to imagine it wouldn't turn violently in the hand, however tight your grip...but they were made and carried for decades, so they must have worked.
Matt mentioned in passing that the side bars assisted in stability, but they're not in the axis of the grip/rotation with a whole hand grip on the handle, so it's "less than clear" how.
Some more explanation, demonstration of the mechanics would be very useful.
From what I've learned, 'punch dagger' is a misnomer. Think about doing draw cuts rather than punches. Same with a pata.
Yeah the side bars 100% look better suited to brace against slashing… if you just threw a cross wearing one of those you are 100% rolling your wrist 😂
Imagine brass knuckles with a really long spike
It's always worth bearing in mind that it was carried by people who saw nothing wrong with burning widows alive and nobody else.
Assuming you have the katar in the right hand, the bar on the top of the forearm which rests to the right side of the thumb. This prevents the katar from rotating clockwise in your hand because the bar cannot pass through the base of the thumb. If the katar has an appropriately tight fit, the bar along the bottom of the forearm often/easily rests a little on the bottom left side of the forearm. Sometimes the palm of the hand even protrudes below the bar on the right side. This works to prevent counter-clockwise rotation when thrusting at a target.
Don't know if you'll read this, but the whole scissoring action of some of the katar combined with poison has always fascinated me, from a mechanical perspective, it might just be genius ngl.
Considering how the mechanism works, it would make the most sense if it activates post puncture, when wrenching the blade out, pressure on the handle would cause the blades to open, deepening the wound channel and allowing the poison to interact with the blood stream, actually quite ingenious, if anything.
If you've ever thrust a blade into ballistic gel especially a torso with bone-like parts and organs you'll get why that wouldn't work.
Once you've penetrated even an inch of tissue you'd need more than just the mechanism powered by your fingers to actually open it, flesh does not give, you need to cut or puncture through it especially of you don't want to damage your own weapon, even twisting puts lots of stress on the blade, it could take a bend or even break before you could get it out 🫤
@@valandil7454 i mean thats good and all, but the mechanism is always locked to the front of the two bars, meaning it will activate when you pull it out. That’s a movement you can put your whole body into
@@levivanderveen4671it's not body mechanics it's the blades themselves, the mechanism and the way you'd want it to cut and part the tissue while it's in is what wouldn't work, in order to cut they'd need some amount of movement otherwise they're just forcing themselves apart
Definitely goes waaay back.there are sculptures from 3rd/4th century with Katars, and im oretty you'd find older ones
As a tradition, during the wedding ceremony, groom carries this katar also called as Bãku in our region (karnataka). To defend from bandits or invaders during wedding procession.
I met some SCA practitioners who said that katars were one of the weapon types banned on their field. Even a wooden dowel padded version could cause serious injury. Not to mention that one fellow with two katars beat several longswords...
that is funny as hell, I'd pay good money to see a dual wielding katar vs longsword fight
I was looking forward to this overview for a long time !
Very interesting: Rondel dagger - with slender blade - held icepick / handshake grip. The katar with a wide somewhat triangular blade held perpendicular to the blade, thereby having more power to punch with a wider blade. Probably the katar makes bigger wounds, while having some issues with full plate armor.
Seems the difference between the two is a factor of different types of armor to defeat - apart from the stylistic choice of course.
You should make a part 2 discussing the scissor like Katars.
Scissor katar are mostly just a novelty from the 20th century and aren't actually usable
What I find fascinating is how unique they are. Usually a Design stops being used if it is inferior, or it will get copied/there are similar inventions in other places if it is successful.
Yep, though India had quite a few weapons that were only really popular in India.
Definitely not an inferior design by any means.
@@anantasheshanaga3666 that's what I'm saying and what I find so interesting.
just imagine some mfs running around punching peoples in your lines and they dying - scary weapon
its a perfect off hand weapon due to off hand typically being more clumsy, its harder to get real force behind a left hand typical dagger without rolling your wrist. You can get amazing force with a left jab or hook with a punch, main hand typically a sword at least in India.
There is a Sikh sword fencing instructor whose first name is Sanatan and he said in a video that the Katar was designed to allow the user to strongly hold the shaft of a spear and the dagger. Otherwise the blade of the dagger sits along the shaft of the spear. If an opponent passes the spear point the katar is there in hand ready to stab them. You have polearms, perhaps you would be so kind as to investigate this claim. Much love from USA.
Finally! A knife you can safely wield while gripping onto your spear. I mean A spear... 😶🌫️
That's probably something he came up with himself. If everyone is carrying a blade like this it would be unlikely it would have been designed specifically for a small subgroup who carry spears.
Contrary to the beleif of a lot of modern weapon nuts most people in the past weren't armed to the teeth and ready for battle, only the small minority who were working as soldiers would fall into that category.
@@TheduckwebcomicsI don’t think anyone is making the claim that a random peasant would be armed with a spear and katar to go to the town center…. The claim is that katar were designed to pair with spear. That said I think it’s more of a happy accident if such a pairing is good.
I've owned a few over the years and like you said, the hooded variety are earlier, eg deccan..
Nice examples btw.
Mate you're 6'1 if something doesn't fit it start being your fault 😅😂
I think I prefer a sword if I get the choice. But you cannot always carry a sword.
You cannot always draw a sword in time, either. If someone walks up to bumping distance, draws a knife and shanks you, you can't get your sword out in time to do anything about it. If you have a dagger in addition to your sword, you can draw your dagger at nearly the same instant your assailant draws a dagger, then duke it out, probably draw your sword as well if you get the chance.
@@Vlad_Tepes_III That is in fact is why swords men tended to carry daggers even before the creation of parrying daggers.
I think first time I have learned about Katar was in Final Fantasy 8, one of side character was using a pair. It looked so cool to young me!
I now live in Virginia but until I was 65 I lived in New Jersey. The basic idea on knives was that those that are mainly tools are legal but ones that are mainly weapons are not legal to carry. Thus a 3 inch folder is legal even is assisted opening. Whereas push daggers are considered only weapons.
I am curious about the katar's ability to cut/slash. There are design elements - such as the reinforcing bars, and the fact that it isn't just a round/square spike - that would lend themselves to slashing strikes.
How well-documented is that use of a katar? Were cuts just used incidentally, if it fit the situation, or were they used as much as stabs/punches?
Kalari practitioners demonstrate a LOT of cuts with these things
I can imagine having a wristband or bracelet with tube shaped fittings where the bars protruding back fit in, not having bindings or something around your hand to fix the bars sort of, in that way making it easy to take the knife from your sheath or pocket whatever and secure it quickly and effectively to use for punching , cutting, parrying etcetera.
The fighter shown at 11 minutes has braceletsm that could also do that securing.
"what is thi?"
a top tier indian weapon
If I had to wake up in the middle of the night and defend myself. I would want a push dagger. They are faster.
Great Video Matt.
The choice of weapon for the Diablo2 Assasin!
Great video as ever thank you for all the wonderful stuff over the years.
11:00 Why does he have two swords? I mean I get the more the better, but what's the context of this pic? Also Matt have you seen the pics and videos of the Feldlager 2023 at Brandenburg castle? IronCrown Workshop and Esther Kok as some great videos on it. Would love to see your reaction.
I have, yes. I shared it to the Facebook page. I have no idea why this Mughal guy has two swords!
@@scholagladiatoriagiven how many kinds of swords Indian people had access to, could it be one is thrusting for armor and I'm the other is slashing? like Polish Hussars carrying both a szabla and a koncerz.
@@scholagladiatoria I love how people are genuinely interestedly in Indian history but that guy isn't a mughal but a Rajput. They are usually depicted wearing weapons especially when they are known warriors.
Two different styles of swords for two different purposes, yes one can do both but still here in india we like to be armed to teeth kind of thing.
Nihang warriors still commonly carry two swords.
I wonder if people used to jab with them primarily and if they preferred orthodox or southpaw stance
9:01 Yeah... Tulwars... You're the reason why I now own five of them. And a few hilts. Why I learned to make pipal tree based "cutler's pitch". I learned it from watching you alright!
Very informative, as always!
Cant beat those bio mechanics.
Jab jab jab!
There are many versions of Katar.
I've always loved Indian history and martial arts, kalaripayattu's supposed to be the oldest known martial art and so many others since have been inspired by it 🙂
I'd really like to spar with a katar it's a great mix of defence and offence despite its lack of reach and the way it locks your wrist.
Can we see you sparring with it please Matt? I remember you saying one of your club's instructors went for Jujutsu as well I'd like to see how they'd handle it 🙂
Have you actually tried training with them? If so, how did you find it?
@@scottmacgregor3444one of the guys from my club does, as I said no I haven't yet I chose Japanese Jujutsu so I'm more used to shorter knives you can use from a grapple
Kali seems to put more emphasis on speed and reach like a bantamweight boxer so the Katar makes a lot of sense
An accoustic! Nice to see someone playing a steel katar these days.
(plays trombone)
You are wrong about hand size they make it small because of there fighting style note for small hand
My first time seeing a katar was in Soul Calibur 2. I'm a big fan of Voldo's fighting style.
That looks like a good weapon and cooking utensil.
Good butter knife indeed
Thanks for this very instructive presentations. I have two questions:
1. The way the blade is attached to the handle looks rather frail, compared to an usual dagger, which has a "filet" going through the handle. Do you know how solid it actually was in combat?
2. How is the katar related to the kriss, which too is used like a punch-dagger but with a "pistol" grip?
Two guys dueling with katars would get brutal really fast.
One of my fave weapons. Good to find all this out.
I've been looking for a katar to add to my collection. Preferably a modern one. Here in Texas most weapons are legal
I would have thought you'd touch on Katar with multiple blades. I didn't know if this was mostly deployed as a defensive parrying dagger or for offence.
Yeah these are going on my forge list
Always informative and generous with your knowledge, thank you! Fascinating
My pleasure!
Was it used in dual welding with sword?
I have a vague memory that I have seen Indian art showing that, but I have not seen any examples recently. It seems usually to have been used like the rondel dagger, in wrestling range, while the sword was usually used with a shield or buckler.
What about the scissor bladed katar? I've seen several in museums that have an inner blade "clamshelled" into a pair of hinged outer blades, with a mechanism that when the two bars of the grip are compressed, the outer blades open, revealing the inner..presenting 3 points to an opponent!
But you don't mention this variation. Is that another video?
Most of them seem to have been made in the 19th century to sell to tourists. They do seem to have existed before that, but seem to have been a novelty rather than normal weapons.
While I doubt it was ever used historically, many years ago I had a nice reproduction of a katar where I jerry-rigged a way to have it easily accessible but get most of the benefits of being "bound" to the arm: a leather vambrace with added loops that naturally slipped over the langets as you put your hand into the grip.
Worked great, regardless of historicity. But I'd be absolutely tickled to hear of anything similar in actual historical use, if anyone knows of a record of it.
Do Katar blades have a cutting edge?
Love the mention of Willow
I wonder if gauntlets of the period had loops that corresponded to those two steel bars, such that the dagger wouldn't turn in the fist when impacting resistance...🤔
Could they have been used with a shield in a similar manner to the dirk can be used in the highland fighting style? Youd have the advantage of a better angle of attack?
I have seen a fair number of katars. I have seen few if any where the cross pieces were held in place by separate rivets. More often the cross pieces end in square tenons which fit through square mortises in the sides. Or the holes and tenons were round, but (possibly countersunk and) peened over.
One of the strangest examples, and one which I own, is a katar hilted pata like the one you mention but with a slightly reinforced tip. In that case the hilt(?) weapon absolutely has to be secured to the wielder. Otherwise torque makes it rotate uncontrollably in the hand.
Are there any manuals on using the "guard" between the top of the bars and the base of the blade to parry a swing or thrust? Also if Indian swordfighters were "weak against the thrust", how did they handle their fellows using Katars?
It would be fun if Matt could have brief look at the depictions of characters of various cultures in Crusader Kings 3.
_these punch daggers are very useful in self dense while dog attacks!_
Is the criteria for "antique" just anything that is greater than 100 years old, or does it have to be certified or sold by some authority in antiques?
In the UK antique for legal or tax purposes = over 100 years old. So a WW1 knuckleduster is legal, a WW2 example is not (although there is a legal 'defence' for 'historical importance').
@@scholagladiatoria that is wild! Given the similarity in construction from 17th-20th centuries, I don't suppose that police could likely spot the difference between a true antique and a quality modern reproduction, though.
I don't like how lax our weapons laws are in the U.S., but I have to admit that the UK's laws sound pretty maddeningly arbitrary and nonsensical. Is it really that hard to implement sensible regulations that account for safety instruction and licensing/registration?
I play Chivalry 2 on ps5 and get very angry when I encounter these
My dad's friend showed me some of these when i was young now i know there name. 😺🤙🍻
My crusty old self immediately remembered Ragnarok online and Sonic Blow.
Really interesting video!
*_Rain_* has entered the chat
The Minbari used them in the Earth Minbari War. (From the B5 movie, 'In the Beginning') So they go waaaayy back! :D
There was one in the old jungle book the movie that when you squeeze the handle it would open into three blades have you seen that before or is that just a movie prop?
Historical examples exist, but people seem split on whether scissor katars had a practical purpose, or were just super fancy to style on the poors.
Sorry if this is an ignorant question, but how does the top and bottom bar prevent the weapon from twisting laterally?
The wrist bars don’t prevent horizontal movement, those are to prevent vertical movement when you slash and Overall forearm protection I’m pretty sure. The Handle itself is what resists horizontal movement, since the two bars create a kind of flat surface. You can test this yourself, take a single wooden dowel in you hand and you can see how easy it is to rotate. Then take two dowels and duct tape the m together and you can see it’s is much harder to rotate if you grip is tight.
Very interesting info on the katar weapons, do you have any information on the Afgan Lohan knife of the Banochie tribe ?
Yes, if you search Khyber knife in my videos, also called the choora
You can punch someone in head and right into into the brain quite easily compared to a normal knife, the short T handle is also easy to conceal on modern punch daggers.
Hope you recover soon from whatever cold or such you are suffering from.😷
Have been looking forward to this video for some time as I knew you would get around to them eventually ☺️
great video! just a recommendation for editing, you have a lot of background noise in the audio, use audacity noise reduction feature for free or other such feature to make your video way more enjoyable. audio is the most important in video, about 5 times more important than video quality actually
Remember boys; use protection, reinforce the tip
Matt what are the chances of having windlass make some katars not enough modern onrs around
They could do it, but they would be prohibited in a lot of countries. Could be good for the US market though.
Sighs in Canadian.
"OPPS wanted some initiative, blew up their entire quadrant"
Do these co-exist with the Pesh-Kabz time-wise? Sorry, bad spelling. Seems like they might fill a similar anti-armor or anti-thick-clothing role.
Yes, both were used in India, but the pesh-kabz is essentially a Persian and Afghan weapon, which the Indians sometimes copied.
Do you think one could make a functional weapon with a curved (sword) blade on a handle like a katar?
Yes, they existed. They are not common, but you can find them if you look around.
It might be possible but probably not worth the effort(since with a curved blade you want to slash wheres with a katar style handle you want to thrust).
Might it be so that the punchdaggers are outlawed because their only use is to be used as a weapon. It can be hard to do bushcraft with it…..
Could katars for use have the extending bars wrapped around the arm with cloth to stabilize it in the hand or can the bars slide under chain mail sleeves to aid stability?
Can it be combined with a shield?
To be fair, most knives are illegal over there not just punch daggers
YES! I have been waiting for this one for a long time.
Nice information sir
Indian people don't have smsll hands. We probably just don't know how to properly hold it
It seems to me that mounting long blades on katar hilts sounds like you'd end up with an unbalanced, difficult to handle weapon, have you had the chance to hold one? Do you know if they were also worn and used as "daggers", or more like swords?
Information is worng. It didn't originate in 15th Century. It is much earlier even from Gupta and Maurya period which is probably 4000 to 5000 years earlier. PeshKabz might've originated around 15th Century or somewhere around that time .
The Eddy Gordo of soul blade
I hate to focus in on something that’s only tangentially related, but you mention medieval Europeans carrying daggers in addition to their swords. With regards to that, why do you think some prominent euro hema personalities have been so vocally against longsword tournaments allowing (or requiring) the carrying of a backup dagger. This is something that is occasionally done in North America tournaments but whenever I see it mentioned on reddit or Facebook it’s always put down as nonsense.
I bet a meaner looking dagger like that sells better, but doesn't dagger any better.
Awesome video! I was first introduced to katars by playing Diablo II as a teenager, where it was the class-specific weapon for the assassin class. Would love to hear more about them, such as the scissor katar and more fruity varieties. I love how varied and imaginative Indian weaponry is, really enjoy your content relating to that!
hey Matt, have you ever come across an urumi?
I know about them, but have never seen an antique example. I'm not honestly sure they were ever used in warfare - they seem to be associated with displays and shows.
@@scholagladiatoriaTraditional ballads in my state describe their use in duels and one against multiples self defence situations.
I need that $$$
So price is probably out of range for money
XCOM2 had a weapon similar to it, for the Templar class
Ah yes the thing that’s banned with no good reasoning
were there single edged Katars?
There are certainly katars with single-edged sword blades fitted in the hilts. I cannot recall if I have ever seen one which was made from the outset to have a single edge.
Cool! I’ve always been fascinated by these. I don’t know why.