What I like about this video is that it gives a little insight into probably why Nimmo tubes didn’t take off. They have manufacturing difficulties with gun alignment that means expensive rejects and the round form factor was becoming old hat for numeric display systems.
"You never know, what's gonna be on the bench in the FranLab" This is more than enough to get my inner child's curiosity going. Let's explore funky electronics! I wish there was something like this on TV when I was a kid. This could inspire so many more
Hi Fran. Wow! TWO amazing pieces of unobtainium. AND they both still work! A big thank you to Joe for sending these to you, and a big thank you to you for daring to power them up. You've got a real, living museum in the lab. Thank you for sharing these treasures.
That reminds me of the tiny crt tube i have out in my shed. It came from a mini oscilloscope, so it should be a green display tube. I haven't even looked at in years to recall if there's any numbers on it or not. Maybe i should go dig it out. Could be some rare old tube or something.
What about finding 4 12 inches color crt the same model and two miniature ones for the middle dots. That would make a heavy clock assembly but would be nice. Ideally, the crt would had to be driven by vector processor rather than bitmap
These are so cool! I definitely think you're right about the rectangular nimo tubes, the round ones look so much more clunky in comparison. The picture showing the array of rectangular tubes makes them look much more efficient, and I'm gussing it's easier to read when they're not as spread out as they would be with the round tubes.
Oh that apprehensive feel on the 1st smoke test! I always keep on the edge with one hand on the power supply that I don't take off until I see it actually working. Usually even turning it right off if it doesn't work right away, who knows if it's a short just beginning to heat up before blowing up stuff or if it was just a lose wire.
Classic case of tunnel vision. Whilst Telefunken lifted the design, IEE really should've just told them to pay royalty and produce under their license. Everyone would've benefited from this. I'm pretty sure tho, this might have to do with the lawyers and their usual advice. One of the reasons i dislike predatory folk in that branch of work. Their actions destroy quite a lot of things.
@@ArnaudMEURET that's who has always constructed and installed space program hardware. The first missions in space involved satellite telephone relay circuits and were funded ENTIRELY by The Bell System.
@@majikglustik9704 OK but how can you be certain that they accept such orders? It’s unimaginable that they’d keep a production line ready for this. Do you know that they have old stock?
@@ArnaudMEURET excellent question! Here's the process: You contact them and they can construct a series of prototype components, so data can be gathered about the raw materials process that would supply a production line. This data is used to establish the logistics of the assembly program and to develop the tools, and tooling needed to make the product. It all starts at bell labs. Contact them directly and I believe they could EASILY fulfill simple orders by constructing several units at a time, in their shop. Tell them what you want. The phone call or email starts your journey. Yes, vaccum tubes are them. Nimo tubes. You name it... Bell labs developed it, and Western Electric built it. And NASA flew it.
@@ArnaudMEURET not only old stock...before any machines are made to build such components, one must build specimens, in the lab / shop, by hand. Then they know what they need to do to assemble the machines that will MASS PRODUCE the components assembly in question. Auto makers make each years cars parts (each one) by hand, and assemble the PROTOTYPE into a finished auto made ENTIRELY BY HAND. Once that is done, then one can design the tools, machines, and processes that will produce that model years car. Again, bell labs has the property rights, plans, schematics, and intellectual LICENSE to make electronic components like nixey tubes. They would have to produce each tube by hand, not with a machine. Only when there is enough demand, would they tool & dye an assembly line. Call them. They can advise you better. Bell labs (makers of the transistor, and integrated circuit: see also, "at&t tech channel"). Western Electric (who made and operated the assembly lines). Untill you inquire of them, they won't know you want these. Thusly, they will be impossible to get, unless you go to a manufacturer, like Western Electric, or Bell Labs. All the best.
At 1800ish volts...eh, doubt it. Once the LCD came out, no other format stood a chance. It's a no-brainer. And the LCD was a natural progression, so it's not like favoring a different format might've hindered it.
As other's have said, it's just not really a possibility without a truly massive watch. These weren't even practical forms of display, neither were Nixies, for that matter, but back then, they were throwing everything at a wall and seeing what sticks. And when LCD hit the market, nothing stood a chance.
That's amazing! I wish I could tell you I had a box of nos ones laying around, but you're right, those are some seriously unobtainable items. IEEE prototypes at that! Rarified air you breathe Fran!
I'm so glad I watched this video as I love nixie tubes and these ones are awesome also. I'm saving up for a nixie watch rn and if these ones were miniaturized I would love to get one of these also
Your end-of-video silent clips can hit so hard sometimes. Even though you said many times in the video that it was the last of its kind, and practically one-of-a-kind even when it was new, it wasn't till the footage of the little tube silently cycling through the digits that my mind began to wander into the world where this plucky little voltage monster was the first of many, a world that never came to be, and now lives only in our imaginations, generations later...
some tube sockets can be cleaned by small brushes usually used instead of flossing wire between teeth. those are available in various sizes at least in Europe, dont see why not in US too.
I know..I love old gear I have a roland tr 707...my friends dog clipped the plug..noticed it broke the inside negative or positive nipple thing on the insert..is it a easy fix..sry know off ..but aside do like your vids..very informative and dam interesting 👍
you are probably one of the only people on earth who both knows about these and actually has the gear to turn it on and use it, its no wonder the surviving samples keep finding you, the oddity is that they still exist and function more or less like new despite manufacturing flaws
I always love finding a new science channel to add to my collection. Great content will be binge watching your play list Fran. Thank you for your work!
I saw some interesting VFD tubes for sale online. A star, devided into segments, in the middle of 5 lines, in a circle on each side. Could be a nice animated tube.
The 5 and the 0 on the round prototype tube seemed to improve with time (I noticed this before you lowered the exposure on the camera). Maybe they'd "burn in" a bit with use? Excellent video as always!
On the slightly more modern note, I am currently playing around with a Raspberry Pi and mini lcd color 128x128 displays based on the SPI interface. I am planning on making some big panel buttons with transparent cover, with those displays built in. A lot of fun to do, learning a lot on the way, especially Python and Driving the GPIO pins on the Pi. I got 5 of them working in parallel, it was surprisingly easy to do.
@@paulmichaelfreedman8334 Oh, that's another fun thing I used to do, too! There is something really satisfying in seeing all the steps in the process fitting together, while they use different methods (CAD/drawing, mechanical processing, chemical reactions, and good old elbow grease). The knowledge acquired how to get a specific process to work and reach a certain result with a specific set of equipment is what made PCB etching fun for me, even until maybe 3 years ago. Since then it became cheaper for me to just get them done somewhere else. But since we know how it works, we can design the PCB accordingly.
Apparently lift companies like Otis often used tubes like this for the floor indicators inside their lifts around the time these tubes were popular! :)
Just another example of patent law making our lives duller. Telefunken had succeeded in making a production ready product. IEEE didn't. They sued Telefunken and won End result: everybody loses.
At 3:22, "strangely, the pins are smaller". I have encountered this with some Chinese 12AX7 tubes and Chinese miniature 9 pin sockets, where the tube pins are thinner than those on vintage American and European tubes; Put a Chinese tube into the sockets on a vintage amplifier and the Chinese tube makes a poor electro-mechanical connection and just about wants to fall out of the socket. Conversely, a vintage 12AX7 type tube might not fit at all into the more modern Chinese sockets (especially ceramic sockets), because the contacts are too tight or the holes in the ceramic are too small.
Amazing insight into telecommunications history. Thx 🙏 so much as there isn’t anyone that else out there doing the exact things you so. I have a “History of Telecommunications” & I have all the info I need from this channel. I can now spread the knowledge.
the russian nixie sockets are probably for 'metric' pins, some of their ICs and socket connectors used metric 2.5mm spacing instead of 1/10 inch 2.54mm,???
Some Chinese miniature 9 pin tubes, 12AX7 and similar, seem to use pin diameters that are to small. They'll just about fall right out of the socket on a vintage US or European device; and conversely, a vintage12AX7 might not even fit into a Chinese made socket, especially if the socket is ceramic.
@@goodun2974 yep, i've had 'new' chinese, i assume, sockets seem very tight on 'vintage' valves, i've found some east european valves (mostly russian) tighter than west european, havent come across many chinese 'all glass' valves yet
Sometimes tubes develop a short due to debris inside and you can burn it out by discharging a capacitor through it. Did that with a very expensive Tektronix storage CRT and restored it.
If you want your stuff to last, use lead. Lead free is for the corporations to seem like they're "protecting the planet" whilst ignoring their other far more blatant pollution practices.
@@FranLab lead solder is best but some suppliers wont supply to 'consumers' /hobbyists only manufacturers, which i think is strange, as its the mass manufactured items more likely to be dumped, possibly in landfill, rather than one off hobbyist made items...
Сколько живу, но вот такие вакумно элюминисцентные индикаторы вижу впервые. Очень похож принцип работы как у осцилографических трубок. Я не уверен что, подобное выпускалось у нас. А если и было то весьма крайне редким эксклюзивом. Не для массового выпуска. Для очень редкой аппаратуры. Браво и спасибо вам за такое позновательное видио)
That is some very pretty one-digit display.
Wonder How Perfect The Display Had To Be? It's Very Legible In My Opinion...
Love Your Project Builds Fran... Do Another! 😉👍
Blessings James 🌈
Joe Velas thanks for sharing these with us by way of Fran, and thanks for your work. These are truly splendid devices!
Your genuine enthusiasm just makes me really happy, subscribed
What I like about this video is that it gives a little insight into probably why Nimmo tubes didn’t take off. They have manufacturing difficulties with gun alignment that means expensive rejects and the round form factor was becoming old hat for numeric display systems.
I just checked my pile of stuff; I have an IEE rectangular NIMO (6100-31-0006) with the IEE driver board, so there are a few out there...
Does it still work good?
Well, you know who you can send it all to...
"You never know, what's gonna be on the bench in the FranLab"
This is more than enough to get my inner child's curiosity going. Let's explore funky electronics! I wish there was something like this on TV when I was a kid. This could inspire so many more
Hi Fran. Wow! TWO amazing pieces of unobtainium. AND they both still work! A big thank you to Joe for sending these to you, and a big thank you to you for daring to power them up. You've got a real, living museum in the lab. Thank you for sharing these treasures.
I’m imagining Fran building a clock with a row of tiny B&W camcorder viewfinder CRTs.
That reminds me of the tiny crt tube i have out in my shed. It came from a mini oscilloscope, so it should be a green display tube. I haven't even looked at in years to recall if there's any numbers on it or not. Maybe i should go dig it out. Could be some rare old tube or something.
What about finding 4 12 inches color crt the same model and two miniature ones for the middle dots. That would make a heavy clock assembly but would be nice. Ideally, the crt would had to be driven by vector processor rather than bitmap
These are so cool! I definitely think you're right about the rectangular nimo tubes, the round ones look so much more clunky in comparison. The picture showing the array of rectangular tubes makes them look much more efficient, and I'm gussing it's easier to read when they're not as spread out as they would be with the round tubes.
Thanks Fran, and Joe Velas for his high quality unobtanium donation. It was really cool to see these working!
"Please don't blow up!"
This is my mantra ever time I turn on a project :)
Disassemble? No disassemble!!!
Oh that apprehensive feel on the 1st smoke test! I always keep on the edge with one hand on the power supply that I don't take off until I see it actually working. Usually even turning it right off if it doesn't work right away, who knows if it's a short just beginning to heat up before blowing up stuff or if it was just a lose wire.
No disassemble number 5.
Reassemble, Stephanie!
It's a pitty they stopped Telefunken prodicing the rectangular Nimo's, there could be quite a lot around by now.
You could use the count down to start the show or live stream. Thanks for sharing love all your videos.
and/or use a NIMO count down to zero, fade to black, to end the video. :-)
WOW. So very excellent. Thanks Fran. Trailblazing away. xxx
Classic case of tunnel vision. Whilst Telefunken lifted the design, IEE really should've just told them to pay royalty and produce under their license. Everyone would've benefited from this. I'm pretty sure tho, this might have to do with the lawyers and their usual advice. One of the reasons i dislike predatory folk in that branch of work. Their actions destroy quite a lot of things.
maybe they gave TFK that option? but they refused??
You first taught me about NIMO tubes, and it is real cool to see prototypes!
Don't give up!
Bell labs and Western Electric CAN STILL MAKE THEM, special order.
Call them.
You'll be glad you did!
Wat !? Seriously?
@@ArnaudMEURET that's who has always constructed and installed space program hardware. The first missions in space involved satellite telephone relay circuits and were funded ENTIRELY by The Bell System.
@@majikglustik9704 OK but how can you be certain that they accept such orders? It’s unimaginable that they’d keep a production line ready for this. Do you know that they have old stock?
@@ArnaudMEURET excellent question!
Here's the process:
You contact them and they can construct a series of prototype components, so data can be gathered about the raw materials process that would supply a production line. This data is used to establish the logistics of the assembly program and to develop the tools, and tooling needed to make the product.
It all starts at bell labs.
Contact them directly and I believe they could EASILY fulfill simple orders by constructing several units at a time, in their shop.
Tell them what you want.
The phone call or email starts your journey.
Yes, vaccum tubes are them.
Nimo tubes.
You name it... Bell labs developed it, and Western Electric built it.
And NASA flew it.
@@ArnaudMEURET not only old stock...before any machines are made to build such components, one must build specimens, in the lab / shop, by hand.
Then they know what they need to do to assemble the machines that will MASS PRODUCE the components assembly in question.
Auto makers make each years cars parts (each one) by hand, and assemble the PROTOTYPE into a finished auto made ENTIRELY BY HAND. Once that is done, then one can design the tools, machines, and processes that will produce that model years car.
Again, bell labs has the property rights, plans, schematics, and intellectual LICENSE to make electronic components like nixey tubes. They would have to produce each tube by hand, not with a machine. Only when there is enough demand, would they tool & dye an assembly line. Call them.
They can advise you better.
Bell labs (makers of the transistor, and integrated circuit: see also, "at&t tech channel").
Western Electric (who made and operated the assembly lines).
Untill you inquire of them, they won't know you want these. Thusly, they will be impossible to get, unless you go to a manufacturer, like Western Electric, or Bell Labs.
All the best.
It’s the one and only....... how appropriate...... Fran, you too are a one and only 👍👍. Thanks for sharing. Fascinating
If Telefunken had come to an agreement with IEEE and paid license fees then this type of display tube would have been a success.
yep, dunno why they didnt have this option, or did they but refused to pay ?
Whoa! Quite literally one of a kind! This should get more attention, fascinating history.
Imagine an alternative timeline in which nimo became the dominant display technology. We could all be wearing nimo tube wristwatches right now.
At 1800ish volts...eh, doubt it. Once the LCD came out, no other format stood a chance. It's a no-brainer. And the LCD was a natural progression, so it's not like favoring a different format might've hindered it.
Imagine the VR rigs. Basically a bus with the back door replaced with a faceplate and a strap.
Sounds fantastic. I'd love one.
The size of a Pip-Boy
As other's have said, it's just not really a possibility without a truly massive watch. These weren't even practical forms of display, neither were Nixies, for that matter, but back then, they were throwing everything at a wall and seeing what sticks. And when LCD hit the market, nothing stood a chance.
Fully functional! Great Bin a View intro. Thanks Fran. Your videos are always fun.
That's amazing! I wish I could tell you I had a box of nos ones laying around, but you're right, those are some seriously unobtainable items. IEEE prototypes at that! Rarified air you breathe Fran!
Didn't expect another nimo vid! The first vid I've seen of yours was your first nimo vid.
Seeing that thing fire up made me so happy, thank you Fran :) , thank you Joe Velas. 8-bit.
I have a couple Nixie clocks… looks like a Nimo antiquated artifact of some kind will be in my possession soon enough. Fantastic video.
I'm so glad I watched this video as I love nixie tubes and these ones are awesome also. I'm saving up for a nixie watch rn and if these ones were miniaturized I would love to get one of these also
What a lovely little particle accelerator.
"I'm gonna make it easy on myself" .... uses a slot headed screw. :-D You're one of a kind Fran
Finding NIMO! It’s a thing of beauty.
Great one Fran thanks
5:41 fire to the wire... It's Ailve !!
Your end-of-video silent clips can hit so hard sometimes. Even though you said many times in the video that it was the last of its kind, and practically one-of-a-kind even when it was new, it wasn't till the footage of the little tube silently cycling through the digits that my mind began to wander into the world where this plucky little voltage monster was the first of many, a world that never came to be, and now lives only in our imaginations, generations later...
Thanks Fran for letting us all come along !
Here is see things that I never would have seen otherwise. Thanks, Fran!
so Telefunken was sued not to produce by a competitor who decided not to sell the product?
stupid isn't , that's the patent system
yeah that was weird to hear to me as well, it makes no sense lmao
Dayton Hamvention used to be the place to find rare goodies like this. I'd love to sift through what you discard!
Never heard of NIMO tubes before. They are beautiful.
That looks really nice.
Never seen those before. Lovely!
They are so lovely, I wish these had taken off the same as Nixie tubes. I love the frosty look of the glass, and the green glow
That's cool. Really like the green of the light.
love the ending credit song, u crack me up fran
some tube sockets can be cleaned by small brushes usually used instead of flossing wire between teeth. those are available in various sizes at least in Europe, dont see why not in US too.
enjoyed the rarity and working demonstration, thanks
Nice stuff Fran
It's thrilling to get to see some old tech that i never would have heard of otherwise
Neat little tubes!!
I like the glow. It reminds me of some toy night light plugs in the 80'S for toddlers where you plug them in and they light in the dark.
Why are some of the numbers split and others are solid? Thank you! Great channel!!
Perfect for my time machine.
Woah! These are sick. Mythological is the perfect word.
Nice job thanks
Beautiful! Thank you for this!
Wow!
Just wow!
That looks really tactile.
Awesome crt tube👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I know..I love old gear I have a roland tr 707...my friends dog clipped the plug..noticed it broke the inside negative or positive nipple thing on the insert..is it a easy fix..sry know off ..but aside do like your vids..very informative and dam interesting 👍
I'm sure you are in heaven playing with that unobtainium NIMO tube 😃
you are probably one of the only people on earth who both knows about these and actually has the gear to turn it on and use it, its no wonder the surviving samples keep finding you, the oddity is that they still exist and function more or less like new despite manufacturing flaws
I always love finding a new science channel to add to my collection.
Great content will be binge watching your play list Fran.
Thank you for your work!
A very interesting vid. Thanks
What product were these tubes used for? What purpose did they serve?
You can't expect a prototype to work correctly. I think it works fairly well.
Thanks for sharing, I guess powering it up must have been quite tense time for you :-)
Was the 0 and 5 improving on the round tube after a bit of run time real, or a camera artifact?
I've come across a few rectangular tubes in old navel sonar equipment retro adapted for receiving early television. My grandad used to make them. X
Oh.. different tubes. Still wonderful though. X
I saw some interesting VFD tubes for sale online. A star, devided into segments, in the middle of 5 lines, in a circle on each side. Could be a nice animated tube.
wow, tubes on the tube.
great vids as usual fran.
now you come up on my feed yeaahhh, but yt have heavily advertised on this, had 17 ads on my view.
AdBlock.
@@FranLab i have it but it does take a funny turn every so often. i dont mind ads
The 5 and the 0 on the round prototype tube seemed to improve with time (I noticed this before you lowered the exposure on the camera). Maybe they'd "burn in" a bit with use?
Excellent video as always!
Fran - Do a video on all of your vacuum tubes collection! That would be cool.
The slightly rectangular one reminds me of the IN12 Nixie tubes
I got unsubscribed somehow, but I fixed that by re-subscribing! You Rock Fran!
On the slightly more modern note, I am currently playing around with a Raspberry Pi and mini lcd color 128x128 displays based on the SPI interface. I am planning on making some big panel buttons with transparent cover, with those displays built in. A lot of fun to do, learning a lot on the way, especially Python and Driving the GPIO pins on the Pi. I got 5 of them working in parallel, it was surprisingly easy to do.
That sounds fun! An exciting project like yours is the best way to learn imho.
@@7head7metal7Yes, it's my rediscovered hobby. I always used to like to fidget with electronics, even etched my own pcbs 30 years back.
@@paulmichaelfreedman8334 Oh, that's another fun thing I used to do, too! There is something really satisfying in seeing all the steps in the process fitting together, while they use different methods (CAD/drawing, mechanical processing, chemical reactions, and good old elbow grease). The knowledge acquired how to get a specific process to work and reach a certain result with a specific set of equipment is what made PCB etching fun for me, even until maybe 3 years ago. Since then it became cheaper for me to just get them done somewhere else. But since we know how it works, we can design the PCB accordingly.
Apparently lift companies like Otis often used tubes like this for the floor indicators inside their lifts around the time these tubes were popular! :)
Just another example of patent law making our lives duller.
Telefunken had succeeded in making a production ready product. IEEE didn't. They sued Telefunken and won
End result: everybody loses.
Those things are brilliant.
At 3:22, "strangely, the pins are smaller". I have encountered this with some Chinese 12AX7 tubes and Chinese miniature 9 pin sockets, where the tube pins are thinner than those on vintage American and European tubes; Put a Chinese tube into the sockets on a vintage amplifier and the Chinese tube makes a poor electro-mechanical connection and just about wants to fall out of the socket. Conversely, a vintage 12AX7 type tube might not fit at all into the more modern Chinese sockets (especially ceramic sockets), because the contacts are too tight or the holes in the ceramic are too small.
You should interview Joe.
Yay more Nimo tubes!! I found me inverted nixie tubes and others! Cant brain hard enough to build a clock. Quite complicated......
It is beyond words nuts that you could actually get a prototype vacuum tube from the 60's to work. I'm doing the "we are unworthy" genuflections.
Tell Joe thank you and OPA!
I just love your videos :-)
These are very cool
A nice track!
Absolutely great! You get to play with all the cool toys!!!
Fran is 'Da Bomb' !
FINDING NIMO
Is it possible to make image intensifiers using these?
Amazing insight into telecommunications history. Thx 🙏 so much as there isn’t anyone that else out there doing the exact things you so. I have a “History of Telecommunications” & I have all the info I need from this channel. I can now spread the knowledge.
You going to build a full nimo clock now Fran?
the russian nixie sockets are probably for 'metric' pins, some of their ICs and socket connectors used metric 2.5mm spacing instead of 1/10 inch 2.54mm,???
Some Chinese miniature 9 pin tubes, 12AX7 and similar, seem to use pin diameters that are to small. They'll just about fall right out of the socket on a vintage US or European device; and conversely, a vintage12AX7 might not even fit into a Chinese made socket, especially if the socket is ceramic.
@@goodun2974 yep, i've had 'new' chinese, i assume, sockets seem very tight on 'vintage' valves, i've found some east european valves (mostly russian) tighter than west european, havent come across many chinese 'all glass' valves yet
Epic ! Thanks !
Penn-State University? Cool. Im from central PA. Ive never heard of those tubes. VERY cool
What to say, AWESOME!
Do you have 4 total of these now? You should try making an actual clock out of them. Either cmos logic or micro based.
She has much more than 4 iirc. Look at the other videos :)
DTL logic chips to give it the true cyber punk feel.
@@dogwalker666 nah, discrete transistor 😁
@@andygozzo72 Germanium ones too.
@@dogwalker666 😁
I love your tiny monitors...... 😁
great video. the square NIMO tube might need degaussing, in case it has accumulated static magnetism in its structures.
Sometimes tubes develop a short due to debris inside and you can burn it out by discharging a capacitor through it. Did that with a very expensive Tektronix storage CRT and restored it.
Just asking do you use lead based solder or lead free solder. I really enjoy electronics and your videos.
Lead
If you want your stuff to last, use lead. Lead free is for the corporations to seem like they're "protecting the planet" whilst ignoring their other far more blatant pollution practices.
If you can get it 60/40 tin lead rosin core is always best lead free solder is a con trick.
@@FranLab lead solder is best but some suppliers wont supply to 'consumers' /hobbyists only manufacturers, which i think is strange, as its the mass manufactured items more likely to be dumped, possibly in landfill, rather than one off hobbyist made items...
These tubes are interesting I have never seen them.
Сколько живу, но вот такие вакумно элюминисцентные индикаторы вижу впервые. Очень похож принцип работы как у осцилографических трубок. Я не уверен что, подобное выпускалось у нас. А если и было то весьма крайне редким эксклюзивом. Не для массового выпуска. Для очень редкой аппаратуры. Браво и спасибо вам за такое позновательное видио)