how i scan 35mm and 120 film at home (scanning with film borders, and getting better colors)

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  • Опубликовано: 4 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 524

  • @W_Alexis
    @W_Alexis 4 года назад +74

    I've scanned HUNDREDS of images with my V600 and was convinced that I should ditch it for lab scans. Thanks for posting this and saving me money.

    • @linusandhiscamera
      @linusandhiscamera  4 года назад +8

      brahhhhh i am right there with you! i felt a little cheated after getting NLP from my last year of shooting film lol

    • @Ze_Rok_
      @Ze_Rok_ 3 года назад +4

      how did you download the epson scan 2 ?

    • @Mr1991kid
      @Mr1991kid 2 года назад

      I also use the V600 and love it. This video is really helpful also. It makes me want to rescan all my old family film.

  • @Snakes.StartToSing
    @Snakes.StartToSing 4 года назад +124

    Bro you are really good at communicating. Quick and straight to the point. Subscribed.

  • @linusandhiscamera
    @linusandhiscamera  4 года назад +122

    thanks for watching guys! here are my current video corrections:
    - it seems as if Epson Scan 2 might be only available on Mac OS Catalina. I’m working to contact epson and see if a version will be releasing for windows.
    - after you crop in to convert with NLP and edit, you can crop back out to see your borders again.
    - i don't show myself using my dust removal tool before scanning. a link to the one i use occasionally is included in the description.
    - if i went too fast im sorry but this is the man i was born to be. throw this joint on .5 speed LMAO

    • @AlanDeLeonTaverna
      @AlanDeLeonTaverna 4 года назад +4

      linusandhiscamera - using lightroom classic, does your NLP prompt you to run a “TIFF prep” from plugin extras before converting? played around with it last night and got different results with and without the extra step

    • @linusandhiscamera
      @linusandhiscamera  4 года назад +1

      Alan De Leon Taverna i think that’s the latest version of the software!! you should be good tiff prepping

    • @kiwipics
      @kiwipics 4 года назад

      Why not use Vuescan software with its built in / optimum film profiles. You only need the one piece of software rather than two .... a no brainer.

    • @Ryguycraig
      @Ryguycraig 4 года назад +3

      John Taylor because they come out looking like shit lol

    • @theclovercross
      @theclovercross 4 года назад +3

      Hey Linus, did you ever get an answer from Epson about their Epson Scan 2?

  • @jakemyers99
    @jakemyers99 4 года назад +33

    this is one of the best film videos I've ever seen, pretty bummed i just came across this source after i scanned 8 rolls tho lmao.

  • @tavo.simracing
    @tavo.simracing 4 года назад +174

    dog i’m so glad you made this video about including the film borders in the scans. people in the film community guard that secret like it’s the fucking krabby patty secret formula.

  • @MikeKraze
    @MikeKraze 3 года назад +1

    Ive been watching photography videos going on a year, this channel is the best, precise, and most engaging channel I've come across. SUBBED!

  • @haleyb-b8607
    @haleyb-b8607 4 года назад +24

    I've been having trouble getting my colors to where I want them when scanning at home.... this video was exactly what I needed, big thank you!

  • @zachpw
    @zachpw 4 года назад +21

    The scanner has a plane of focus that's usually slightly above the surface of the glass, so another purpose of the film holder is to sit them right above the glass so you get better sharpness. Some holders have little screw feet that you can use to adjust the height and get perfectly in focus scans.
    Or if you're like me and miss focus in camera every time then it probably doesn't matter.

  • @matthewrigsbee6579
    @matthewrigsbee6579 4 года назад +7

    Literally such a great teacher, Linus. I could do this so easily now and I’ve never done film. Love you buddy

  • @0nenightsworth
    @0nenightsworth 4 года назад +5

    Killed this video. Touched on everything from quickest scanning method, anti newton glass for borders, to converting through NLP... Good shit!

  • @jeromewilson3784
    @jeromewilson3784 4 года назад +2

    This honestly convinced me to shoot film again cheaper in the long run. THANKS LINUS

  • @coreyfelts5882
    @coreyfelts5882 4 года назад +5

    I APPRECIATE THIS! I started scanning a few months back and could never get my negatives to look right. Definitely going to give negative lab a try!

  • @stevenbolton5181
    @stevenbolton5181 4 года назад +1

    This is excellent. I really like the idea of not fooling with the film holders and negatives directly on the flatbed with anti-newton glass. Was not aware you could do that. Thank you very much, Linus.

  • @terryleephotographer
    @terryleephotographer 2 года назад

    Negative Lab Pro has made me a believer in home scanning!

  • @LifeOfRiza
    @LifeOfRiza 4 года назад +1

    Woah I was just thinking about getting a scanner then your video popped up! Might have to get the epson after watching this 👌🏼 such a helpful video thank you !!!!

  • @osmosisjane
    @osmosisjane 4 года назад +3

    the way your voice calms me down🥺 I love these :’))

  • @NicolaHuffstickler
    @NicolaHuffstickler 7 месяцев назад

    You are a literal angel, thank you for this quick and super informative video.

  • @CHRIZTION
    @CHRIZTION 3 года назад

    So happy I found this video as I’m going to scan my first roll ever this week.

  • @orlagrace3373
    @orlagrace3373 Год назад +1

    Dude wow, don't usually comment, but had to share that this was incredibly easy to follow, you were informative, but also got to the point and your energy is insane- you made me feel excited rather than intimidated. Also provided everything one would want for "research" with the comparisons and different apps, didn't feel like I needed to watch anymore videos after this. You are a great teacher and video maker. Im really impressed. So excited to give my parents old film from the 70s/80s a new life, and maybe start dabbling in my own shots! Thanks

  • @raemiranda1
    @raemiranda1 4 года назад +22

    Not even joking, this video is saving my life during quarantine. I found you off of twitter and love your genuine energy! Thank you for sharing your knowledge in a clear and consumable way. Your videos have literally taught me more than art school has haha

  • @louisegrundy7170
    @louisegrundy7170 4 года назад +1

    these vids are ROLLING out and i am loving it

  • @prodbyscars
    @prodbyscars 4 года назад +3

    wth this has convinced me to get nlp. The colours look so good. I've always just used epson scan.

  • @visualsbygabe5244
    @visualsbygabe5244 4 года назад +4

    AMAZING BEST RUclipsR FOR FILM EVER

  • @btrdangerdan2010
    @btrdangerdan2010 4 года назад +2

    Funny , I have a Epson V550 as well. Brand new when I bought it from Fry’s Electronics (back when the store was still selling stuff and is now trash). It’s in storage now in the shed. I’ll probably use it when I move out of my moms and off to university. Good videos by the way.

  • @RandyPollock
    @RandyPollock 4 года назад +2

    You will find most Neg Lab Pro guys are using a mirrorless camera with macro lens as their preferred (best output) method of getting the negative on the computer. I use a X-T2 with 80mm macro which really does a great job over any flatbed scanner..and yes I use to use an Epson V600

  • @fleubix1
    @fleubix1 3 года назад

    Thanks for this video, I just bought an Epson v600 and it was super useful !

  • @yusufsabqi
    @yusufsabqi 4 года назад +2

    I’ll get myself a scanner now that I’ve seen this video. Thanks a lot for this tutorial my bro

  • @petermathes2472
    @petermathes2472 4 года назад

    I have been dreading going back to scanning color but I think you've saved me ❤

  • @woo_doggy
    @woo_doggy 4 года назад +89

    lol damn that lab needs to step up their game

    • @linusandhiscamera
      @linusandhiscamera  4 года назад +4

      hahahaha i wonder how much control they have - i know those frontiers mainly handle the scan.

  • @ttoniross
    @ttoniross 4 года назад +27

    I feel stupid I don't understand the whole thing 😅 the dollar to philippine peso is killing me, its pricey but shooting film is still on my list, beautiful photos as always. 👏❤

    • @drewvil
      @drewvil 3 года назад +1

      hmu if your in the philippines haha, ive got a DSLR scanning setup, 100 pesos (2 dollars) per roll.

    • @shesjustafriend539
      @shesjustafriend539 3 года назад

      @@drewvil ano po name n'yo sa fb?

  • @mckenziefitzx
    @mckenziefitzx 4 года назад +4

    i really appreciate this. i'm getting into film photography right as i'm about to stop taking classes and do it on my own which means i need an alternative when i don't have access to that lab anymore

  • @masonthurman
    @masonthurman 4 года назад +1

    Gave this method a go and didn't love the results. Colors were WAY saturated. Epson Scan 2 gave me more natural colors and i can play with the saturation if I want to. Not worth the $100 license, but if it works for someone..it works. Thanks for video!

    • @linusandhiscamera
      @linusandhiscamera  4 года назад

      I totally see where you're coming from! There's a lot of things you can do in the NLP editing window to play with the colors and levels. I'd give it another go, if I were you, but whatever method works best for your process: do it! One of my favorite things about NLP is that scanning as a positive gives you a digital archive of unaltered/unconverted negs...which is one reason i'll never go back to Epson Scan's native conversion. It's convient for sure...but thanks for watching!!

  • @noe_micheau
    @noe_micheau Год назад +1

    This is super useful, thanks a lot! And your pics are stunning!

  • @Magicalthemeparkadventures
    @Magicalthemeparkadventures 4 года назад +1

    My dude!!! Thank you very much for this useful information! I just received my epson V600 today! Yasss I can’t wait 🤙💯

  • @JimmySaul888
    @JimmySaul888 3 года назад

    Gonna try this for sure. I already have an Epson V600 and Lightroom. The lab scan fees are killing me. And they want extra for TIFFS! Not paying for that will make me a little less trigger shy blasting off photos. Great video!

  • @koltinsullivan
    @koltinsullivan 4 года назад +2

    It's been a while since I've seen a film video and actually learned something useful. Thanks for sharing all your research / experience. Totally stoked I found your work. Subbed!!

    • @linusandhiscamera
      @linusandhiscamera  4 года назад

      this is crazy! just starting my channel and i'm so glad people are finding it. thank you!

  • @bigmike3189
    @bigmike3189 Год назад +1

    man i been using silverfast for a year this is soo much better the colors or sooo much better thanks

  • @gunfisher4661
    @gunfisher4661 2 года назад +1

    The V-600 will also scan 110 ,126 and other format negatives. You can use after market holders or just lay the negative on the scanner bed as Photo Shop will straighten the pics up quickly.

  • @SEANTSEANT
    @SEANTSEANT 4 года назад +1

    you're going to do so well on this platform, great videos mate

    • @linusandhiscamera
      @linusandhiscamera  4 года назад

      thank you Sean!!! i'm so excited to keep this channel going. hope you enjoy my future videos

  • @TheMPhotography
    @TheMPhotography 4 года назад +1

    Nice vid. Just found your channel. Keep up the nice work. Love the lightness of how you explain your process.

    • @linusandhiscamera
      @linusandhiscamera  4 года назад

      thank you so much! how’d you find my channel - if i may ask

    • @TheMPhotography
      @TheMPhotography 4 года назад +1

      linusandhiscamera I was looking for epson scanner vids. I have some issues with my v850. Then RUclips suggested me your channel

    • @linusandhiscamera
      @linusandhiscamera  4 года назад

      The M Photography that’s so cool! i’m new here. thank you for sharing!

  • @enasasko2384
    @enasasko2384 4 года назад +2

    Linus, you are so good at what you do, it shines from you ✨ amazing video once again, editing is amazing 😍 can’t wait for the next video

  • @atroche1978
    @atroche1978 4 года назад +1

    Did i just watch a commercial for negative lab pro? Lol. Good video. I'm gonna have to check the software out.

    • @linusandhiscamera
      @linusandhiscamera  4 года назад +1

      yes. yes you did! hahaha just a happy customer over here.

  • @NatashaZimin
    @NatashaZimin 4 года назад +1

    You changed my life - THANK YOU SO MUCH. Also how are there so many videos out there about Epson Scan OG when Epson Scan 2 is so much better? Negative Lab Pro really should sponsor you as well - I'm sold.

    • @linusandhiscamera
      @linusandhiscamera  4 года назад +1

      You can't blame them - Epson Scan 2 just came out a couple months ago AND seems to be only Mac Available at the moment (news to me)

    • @NatashaZimin
      @NatashaZimin 4 года назад

      You're right, it hasn't been out for that long!
      After searching for Epson Scan 2 I discovered something. It wasn't covered in your video (you may already know) but Epson is providing a free download to SilverFast SE for users who own the V550 and V600. I only used it for a few hours yesterday, most of what I know about the program is from RUclips videos, but it seems like a more high-end program with a lot of great controls, which you usually have to pay for. All in all seems like it's a really great perk if it's something you'd be interested in playing around with!
      Here's the link I used: epson.com/Support/Scanners/Perfection-Series/Epson-Perfection-V600-Photo/s/SPT_B11B198011?review-filter=macOS+10.15.x

  • @tnick777
    @tnick777 4 года назад +4

    I use SilverFast as my scanning software and it’s great. I would also evaluate that compared to this, since it has the ability to use the scanner’s built-in infrared scanner to to detect dust and eliminate it.
    But second point. Wow this guy was charming. What a personality and a smile!

    • @linusandhiscamera
      @linusandhiscamera  4 года назад

      I've gotten a few comments about Silverfast - i need to check it out! That dust removal tool seems to be a biiiiig plus. Everyone i know that us SF bring it up. I'll give it a go!

  • @rubendekker
    @rubendekker 3 года назад

    it's 07:00 in the morning, but still, its a great video! thnx bruv!

  • @Oopsihila
    @Oopsihila 3 года назад

    Your vibe is so good

  • @jorbin7417
    @jorbin7417 11 месяцев назад

    Silverfast + Negative lab requires some finesse but the non-destructive nature of a “raw” Silverfast positive gives you so much to work with now & in the future

  • @jeremylawson6648
    @jeremylawson6648 4 года назад

    thanks for this buddy, i’m literally bout to switch up my workflow today and see wasup. thanks again

  • @evanoshea9506
    @evanoshea9506 4 года назад +3

    Most in-depth best-explained video for Scanning on RUclips! Haven't found a better one
    Just a quick question. Do you have to develop film before scanning? Thanks!

    • @linusandhiscamera
      @linusandhiscamera  4 года назад

      thank you! and yes, you have to have your film developed before scanning it!

  • @mariathithuthaonguyen9667
    @mariathithuthaonguyen9667 3 года назад

    Omg this video changed my life!!!? Thanks heaps braaaaah

  • @EKdlwoasred
    @EKdlwoasred 3 года назад

    Thank you so much for this! No one has addressed this huge issue !

  • @LogiicLucky
    @LogiicLucky 4 года назад +5

    this is literally PERFECT!

  • @everettedl
    @everettedl 4 года назад

    Loved watching your video! Really enjoyed your energy and clear communication. My problem is I'm a novice and don't know how to tell what makes one photo better than the other 😅

  • @matttttt63
    @matttttt63 4 года назад

    Thanks for this. I have an Epson v700 and its an impressive scanner but I'm super pumped to try this for better, faster, correcter (lol) colors

  • @uniworkhorse
    @uniworkhorse 4 года назад

    Thank you for the tech tip mr. linus
    Also, excellent writing and video structure! Visual aids were great!

  • @bobbyvasquez4525
    @bobbyvasquez4525 4 года назад +1

    you are an absolute legend for this. thank you

  • @sieb5783
    @sieb5783 4 года назад +5

    Hi! I just bought my epson v550 scanner. where can I download ''epson scanner 2'' and the lab plugin ? Help me out please

  • @rolzkrojs
    @rolzkrojs 4 года назад +2

    Hello, thanks for sharing your process. I just sild my opticfilm 35mm scanner cause off step up to 120. Im wondering og i would ser much off a difference between the epson v500 and the v600. The first is 60usd and v600 is 300usd in Norway at least. Just wondering if it's worth the 240 extra dollars?

  • @gohangaijin
    @gohangaijin 4 года назад +1

    wow finaly a really helpful video on scanning, thanks

  • @kaeptnkrunch9212
    @kaeptnkrunch9212 2 года назад

    Silverfast + Negative Lab Pro + Lomography digitaliza 35 / 120 changed my life.

  • @jamiepirie9758
    @jamiepirie9758 4 года назад

    bro good video, underrated channel!

  • @joekearnan7008
    @joekearnan7008 3 года назад

    Nice video! Super informative for someone just getting started.

  • @uhnotinterested
    @uhnotinterested 3 года назад

    The creator of Negative Lab actually commented on Willen his video (isn't he your brother?) and said that you don't need to white balance on the border. Interesting to try that as well.

  • @judeoorehhh4107
    @judeoorehhh4107 3 месяца назад

    Hi Linus, thanks for this video. I was wondering, why crop out the borders and color correct it before the NLP conversion when there is already a border buffer?

  • @JanneRanta
    @JanneRanta 4 года назад +5

    You dont need to crop into the image. It's ok to leave the border, that's what the border buffer setting is for.

  • @jaycielinh
    @jaycielinh 4 года назад +1

    first time watching a video of yours and i have to say that i really enjoyed this video! keep making great content xx subbed

    • @linusandhiscamera
      @linusandhiscamera  4 года назад +1

      awwww wow that's so nice of you! thank you! did YT recommend my channel?

    • @jaycielinh
      @jaycielinh 4 года назад

      linusandhiscamera no i actually found your video just by looking up “35mm film” bc i love watching film videos aha!

  • @marktuyet
    @marktuyet 4 года назад

    I develop B&W in an old Rondinax daylight tank in Cine Film monobath . I scan with my cell phone on a home made light table and post process with a free version of the old Picasa software you can still find on Google .
    It's good enough for social media and the whole set up cost me 50.00.
    It's a good way to try it out for your first time . Picasa software does everything you need .

  • @itshendo6475
    @itshendo6475 4 года назад +1

    Such a good video! Considering getting the Epson V600!

    • @linusandhiscamera
      @linusandhiscamera  4 года назад +2

      thank you so much!!! you should totally get it. i'm thinking about upgrading to an Epson V800 so i can scan 4x5 film.

  • @pabs4542
    @pabs4542 3 года назад +3

    Would have loved to see a zoom in to see the detail after scanning them, but overall a great solution many of us were looking for

  • @connorfernandes9439
    @connorfernandes9439 3 года назад

    Instant subscribe! Really nice video with no BS

  • @ronin9753
    @ronin9753 4 года назад +1

    just found your channel a while ago. Really like your content and the way you present the information. Looking forward to videos of your process and maybe some vlog type videos when you go out shooting.

    • @linusandhiscamera
      @linusandhiscamera  4 года назад

      Thank you! I'm in NYC filming a couple youtube videos out shooting this week. Lomography collab, and a couple more with other photogs.

  • @Mike_cuomo
    @Mike_cuomo 4 года назад +5

    i just might have to try this bc i’m finna go BROKE bc of scanning costs at my lab, thank you good sir for the video😭

  • @DamolaAkintunde
    @DamolaAkintunde 4 года назад +1

    Oh hey, that's me in the background lol Great vid Linus!

  • @aidanodel7124
    @aidanodel7124 4 года назад +2

    I bought Negative Lab Pro for my DSLR scans but you really made me think about getting a scanner for the higher resolution. Is there a big difference between the v600 and the more expensive v700 and v800 series?

    • @linusandhiscamera
      @linusandhiscamera  4 года назад +1

      well, honestly - the V550 is more than enough in my opinon since it can scan extremely high resolution. i'd only consider getting a v700 or v800 if you'd like to scan a little faster (the entire bed is a film scanner as opposed to the middle strip of the V550), AND they can scan 4x5 and 8x10 film.

  • @thefilmtraveller1014
    @thefilmtraveller1014 4 года назад

    Man this video is gold! Thank you!

  • @mathiasjl92
    @mathiasjl92 4 года назад

    Great video, man. But I thought the white balance tool was only to be used if you did camera scanning and had a camera raw?

  • @pedroleistv
    @pedroleistv 4 года назад +1

    Amazing video mate 🙏

  • @tameenasalehi3465
    @tameenasalehi3465 3 года назад

    Dude. You are so loved. Thank you. How long would you say this process takes altogether?

  • @lukamilanovic4765
    @lukamilanovic4765 3 года назад

    Great video!! I have the epson v550 as well and i can't find a way to download epson scan 2 for my scanner, but i see you use it with yours without a problem. Could you please link me directly to where i can download it? I cant find it on epsons website.

  • @bycrisci3976
    @bycrisci3976 4 года назад +2

    I LOVE YOU TY SO MUCH THIS WILL CHANGE MY LIFE

  • @chronicconja420
    @chronicconja420 4 года назад

    good concise to the point vid, yerrrrrrrr

  • @eurotripx5931
    @eurotripx5931 4 года назад

    it sounds like a nice workflow...

  • @segzeeman7356
    @segzeeman7356 4 года назад +1

    Thanks a lot man! Very helpful video!

  • @pedromeza2398
    @pedromeza2398 4 года назад +1

    Thank you for a great instructional video,

  • @bautista333
    @bautista333 4 года назад +1

    Hey! Really good video, I'm trying Negative Lab Pro now. Do you know why Epson scan 2 is so slow on my side? It takes around 4 -5 minutes for a single scan. Do you think the computer has anything to do with?

    • @bautista333
      @bautista333 4 года назад

      I figured it out. It's the Digital Ice Technology that takes so long.

  • @Spartan301abc
    @Spartan301abc 3 года назад +2

    Is Epson Scan 2 not available anymore? Can't seem to find it on their site :(

  • @stamatisspinos
    @stamatisspinos 8 месяцев назад

    Great video!!! Do you know if any way to scan film with borders in plustek 8200i ?

  • @flowermaze___
    @flowermaze___ Год назад

    Thanks!
    I wonder, nowadays, epson or an plustek scanner. Hm any thoughts?

  • @Johnybulletproof
    @Johnybulletproof 2 года назад +1

    This video is great . Made me Subscribe . Thanks for your contents , btw is That Vuhlandes?

    • @linusandhiscamera
      @linusandhiscamera  2 года назад +1

      it is!!! hope you enjoy the upcoming videos! just dropped one today.

  • @josetoro9053
    @josetoro9053 4 года назад

    hi! good video! ✌🏽👏 I have a question, what do you select in color management in epson scan 2? 🤔 gamma 1.8/ gamma 2.2 or another option? 🤯

  • @erikmccarthy
    @erikmccarthy 3 года назад

    this video was so helpful thank you

  • @adrianz3233
    @adrianz3233 4 года назад +2

    Hey brother, can you post a link to download Epson Scan 2?

  • @fryerock5439
    @fryerock5439 3 года назад

    this video was so helpful!! I just have one question: Does the EPSON v550 work on mac?

  • @tangyorange6509
    @tangyorange6509 4 года назад +1

    Oh and you can get the v550 refurbished for $110 on Adorama with free shipping!! That’s where I got mine and it’s great!

  • @crosstalktv5780
    @crosstalktv5780 2 года назад

    my 6x7 120 film has no border!! so how do I white balance?? using Lightroom auto?? please advise thanks. great video

  • @DESIGNISTASTY
    @DESIGNISTASTY 2 года назад

    Hello, nice video. I have a question: Could I scan a 120 negative in any epson or canon or other scanner and then do the conversion in the negative lab pro? ( I mean without any negative carrier, and maybe only the AN glass).

  • @porteauloin
    @porteauloin 4 года назад +2

    That looks amazing! But silly question:
    How can you take out the film to light without destroying it ?

    • @linusandhiscamera
      @linusandhiscamera  4 года назад +2

      Not a silly question! The film has been developed by me (or in other peoples cases, a lab, and now it is light proof!

    • @porteauloin
      @porteauloin 4 года назад +1

      @@linusandhiscamera thank you! I'm going to look how to develop a film myself ;)

    • @linusandhiscamera
      @linusandhiscamera  4 года назад

      porteauloin i have a video on that too!

  • @alexlambrechts
    @alexlambrechts Год назад

    Hi, thanks for the great information, question: if I crop out the borders before NLP cooks the image, how do I reintroduce the border again, I mean the whole point of scanning with border is to show the border later right? Am I missing a step, or will NLP not work well with borders? Thanks in advance

  • @sonygoup
    @sonygoup 4 года назад +1

    Just a FYI the v500 scans best at 1600 dpi. In terms of image quality to image size. Higher dpi just increase size with no quality change. 2400 dpi is for the v700/v800 scans

    • @linusandhiscamera
      @linusandhiscamera  4 года назад

      i didn’t know that. i’ll give that a go. thank you!

    • @sonygoup
      @sonygoup 4 года назад

      linusandhiscamera check out this link for the effective resolution which is 1560dpi. Also note the v500 and v600 is the same scanner just different lighting technology. www.filmscanner.info/en/EpsonPerfectionV600Photo.html

  • @justinleeflores
    @justinleeflores 4 года назад +1

    Do you change any color settings for the negatives? I set up a profile so it doesn't automatically change exposure when I select the borders.
    I noticed it autocorrected when you did, but have you seen this affect the final output much?