Great video. Most technicians do not understand how these older style thermostats work. Yet, you find many still in service. Thanks for sharing your time and expertise. It is most appreciated.
You're possibly the only guy I've found so far to have any content on this particular thermostat. Not sure if it will solve the issue I'm having, but knowledge is valuable, regardless of it's relevant use at the time. Thank you.
I have a furnace that turns on and off every couple minutes, will adjusting this make it so it only turns on at 5 degree individuals? Or would I need a new thermostat for this? Seems like this isn't good for the furnace
Mechanical thermostat anticipator is factory calibrated to provide about 3 to 6 cycles per hour if set to the control circuit current draw. This is not appropriate for a steam boiler heating system because the boiler components and radiators need a longer cycle time to reach the boiling temperature of water, say 212°F. Set the anticipator slightly less than double the current draw and adjust the anticipator to provide a furnace run time of about 20-minutes for moderate outdoor temperatures around 40°F. During colder outdoor temperatures the furnace will likely run 25 to 30-minutes because of more rapid structure heat losses which impact the bimetallic thermostat sensor. If you cannot measure the current draw, it is usually the gas valve current draw plus 0.10 ma.
Appreciate the info. What do I do if the temp on the top and temp on the bottom don’t match? Example is my inside temp will read 65 but in order to get that temp, I have to set it to around 72?
Usually the thermometer is out of calibration if the thermostat is level. Yes, round thermostats can be out of level. There are 2 pegs on the subbase to put the level on. Not much you can do about the thermometer. GFM
GFM, first off, thanks for all your videos. Here's my question. I recently purchased a Honeywell RTH7600 to replace a T87F for my pellet stove. My T87F had the anticipator setting at the mark between .8 and 1.2, which I presume to be 1 cycle per hour. Should I stick with 1 CPH for the digital? It came set at 6 and I reduced it to 3 but it still causes problems because as my stove is shutting down, the thermostat makes it start back up without going through the entire startup sequence that is required, thus basically dumping all of my pellets into the burn pot without the heating element being on to initiate the fire. The cycle for my stove is basically getting the requirement to run from the thermostat, then the pellet auger runs for a preset period of time, while the heating element is heating and then causing a fire, once the sensors in the stove determine that the temperature in the stove is going up, it then calls for more pellets, turning the auger on, and then it continuously runs until the temperature is satisfied at the thermostat. At that point, the auger stops, and the fire burns out, but the fans stay on as long as the heat exchanger is warm, to continue to blow warm air into the room. My current issue is that while the fans are still running, just after the fire has gone out, the thermostat calls for more heat, initiating the auger, but because the stove hasn't completely shut down from the previous cycle, it doesn't do a proper startup and just dumps pellets. Sorry for the novel, but I would appreciate your expertise on this one.
Thumbs up for everything you cover. My owners manual said to make a ten coil jumper between the R and W and then divide the reading by 10 to get the actual amps. So I did. With the house at 70 and the thermostat set on 80 the mechanical thermostat would run for about 6 minutes then shut off; wait another 6 minutes run for 6 minutes and shut off. I can assure you it was not a short cycle from the unit. The original digital thermostat would run for as long as it took to get it to the setpoint and then shut off. Can a mechanical thermostat be forced to make the furnace run to the set point or are the start/stop intervals set in stone. What if I wanted the furnace to run for an hour with no interruption?
The mechanical thermostat should not shut down until the set point is very close if the anticipator is set correctly. When checking the amperage setting, have you waited until the furnace has started and the fan has started? GFM
@@grayfurnaceman Thanks for replying. According to the manual you do the ten coils right at the base of the thermostat, divide by ten and Bob's your Aunty. I got 0.69 when everything was firing up, and by the time the blower settled into its run it was 0.67. I set the LUX mechanical to that but it would only run for close to the 2-degree rise then stop. It didn't seem to matter where I set the temperature slider except to maybe get it to restart a cycle a cycle if I jacked it to 85, but then it would STILL end after the 6 minutes never close to the setpoint. I was careful to level the device. I'm very curious if 6 minute cycles mean anything to a mechanical thermostat or even the blower control board? I was so frustrated that I pulled out the mechanical and put the old thermostat in there. So, I never went so far as to adjust it past the measured amperage to a longer duty cycle. The location has always been in a protected space so that it represented room temperature with no drafts or register air. Curiously, the old thermostat could run the furnace indefinitely to the set point.
My concern is the pump will shutoff n I still have 140* temp on the gauge. So I want it to run longer before shutoff. Do I perform the same adjustment to the anticipatory or what can I do ?
Are there any thermostats where you can adjust the temperature range so that it won't cycle as much? Just a different way of getting the same result you explain here. Makes me curious though...
I got rid of my digital thermostat, got sick of changing the batteries and bought a T87. My old Bryant gas boiler system with hydronic cast iron radiators appears to put out .1 amps. Does that sound low? I guess I’ll find out this winter if it cycles too much, I’ll slide the adjuster over.
Hi, I'm glad to see your handle still showing up on RUclips! I have a really simple question? How can I get at the anticipator on the basic white Honeywell round in the hallway of the apartment complex where I live? I cannot seem to figure out how to remove the cover ring, and I don't want to tug on something the wrong way and end up standing in the hallway holding a thermostat in my hand and wires dangling out the back of it and out of the wall...! It seems to be mounted as level as possible, ther are no switches on the exterior, just the plastic disk you turn to adjust the heat. The problem is that when it is set to 72-74F, it heats only to 68F. I'd like to adjust the anticipator so that a setting of 70 yields a temperature of 68. In other words, so the set point and temperature maintained are 2F apart instead of 5-6F apart. Please helllllp! I won't touch anything until you instruct me how to get inside it. Promise!
Okay I have question, so my heater keeps shutting off, I noticed when I tap my thermostat it comes back on then it goes back off it's starting to be a constant thing now, was wondering if you can explain, I have the same exact honeywell
You may have covered this somewhere, but where would you test the amperage to get a starting figure? I think somewhere on my system, maybe the aquastat, there is a number, maybe .4 A, but where would I check it, anywhere in the thermostat circuit?
This is just the video I needed to see as I just discovered that I have an old Honeywell Mercury thermostat with an anticipator. I have never seen one of these until tonight as we have been trying to get our cottage to come up to at least 68 degrees. In order to get it to that temperature I had to set the thermostat to 76 degrees. We had an inspector in and all the temps on the wall units and boiler are perfect we just can't seem to get this place to stay an even temperature. He suggested a new thermostat which I bought when I took off the front of the old one to change it I noticed this anticipator for the first time. My Dad (who passed away) probably set this originally but I am lost as to where to set this anticipator since I don't have anything to get an amp reading. The numbers are hard to read. So can you tell me as a novice should I move it to the left for longer cycles and to the right for shorter cycles? Would the shorter cycles keep the place a more even temperature? Thanks for your help. Your video demonstrated to me how ignorant I am about all this. :-p
@@grayfurnaceman thanks for the reply. I did do that and woke up to 55 degrees in the house. I think it is pretty safe to say I have a broken thermostat. :-) I have a new one and just worried about my skill set in replacing it but I will give it a try. Thanks again for all you do!
Which direction makes it cycle more and which direction makes it cycle less? I don't know the amperage. I'm changing it to 1.2 for the hell of it and seeing what happens.
grayfurnaceman, Need your help ! I have a single pipe steam system. My old Honeywell Mercury thermostat went out and a few years ago I replaced it with a digital thermostat. I didn't like the way I set it for 72, it runs until 73, then is off until it drops to 71 degrees. I was getting to much of a "hot cold" in the house. I think I had it set for the 2 cycles per hour. I replaced it with w White Rogers simple "snap switch" type thinking it would be better and more accurate. My Amp draw on the gas valve is .23 amps. I set the Anticipator to the .23 and I'm still getting "swings". When it's in the 40's outside or high 30's, my radiators are getting cold, then heat kicks on and they get hot normally, but it seems to have to much "off time" and give me the same temp swings I had with the digital thermostat. I been messing with the Anticipator trying to lower and raise the setting from .23 amps, but am noticing no difference. I been reading to go higher closer to the 1.2 amps o the anticipator or steam systems, but all it seems to do is make it hotter, then colder, and it will be set for 72, but go up to 74 in the house before it shuts down. Any suggestions to solve this problem ? It seems the digital thermostat worked better at this point but I don't like it because of the 1 degree increment change option only. 72 is to cold, and setting it to 73 degrees was to hot in the house. Thank you
Normally, I would agree that fewer cycles is better on steam or hydronic systems. However, you may have more radiation than is necessary, especially if windows and insulation have been upgraded. I would set the anticipator to a lower number on mechanical and and 5 or 6 CPH on electronic. GFM
This may be a long shot but here goes. I have a TH5-20 in an incubator I made and was wondering is there a way to change the differential ? Its to big of a gap in temps so I need to tighten the gap quite a bit. Is there a way to do that on this type of thermostat?
Ok so I’m trying to increase the time between cycles. My anticipatory was at .7 n times 1.2 gave me .84. I have it at .8 n seems to have done what I wanted. Does the senerio sound rite ?
This is for mechanical thermostats only. When the thermostat is calling for heat, the "W" circuit (heat) must be measured for amp draw. Then the thermostat anticipator is set to match the amp draw. GFM
GFM can you explain the amp draw of the heating system? My T87 is attached to the tt terminals of a honeywell controller on a hot water boiler. Can you also explain why you multiply by 1.2 to get the value for longer cycle times?
If you set the anticipator to the amp draw of the circuit, you will have 5 to 6 cycles per hour. Boilers like longer cycles. The 1.2 multiplier feeds less heat to the anticipator, so the thermostat has a longer cycle. Note on the thermostat there is an arrow that shows longer cycles. Hope this helps. GFM
@ grayfurnaceman But the question remains, Sir! Why the 1.2 multiplier? Did you just choose a multiplier arbitrarily? If so, we could just simply pick a multiplier out of thin air and perhaps risk undesired consequences. I suspect that you chose that particular multiplier because 1.2 is the highest value on the anticipator scale and allows for the longest cycle rate. So, by taking a fraction of that rate, .3A draw in this case, you’ve lengthened the cycle rate and in so doing you’ve decreased the CPH from 6 to roughly 3. Perhaps I misinterpreted you. If so pardon me. But, again, my main question remains. Where did you get 1.2 from and what scientific factor authorizes you to use it or dictates that it alone be used? In short, you don’t explain and justify it's use, unless I misinterpreted you, or missed something. Or have I answered my own question, somewhat?
After listening to this video I checked my anticipator and found it all the way up to 1.2 Been wondering why my water based heat pump was running so much. I dropped it to .3 to see what would happen. PS how did you determine the amp draw?
I believe I have a boiler, it’s the old radiator heater system type that heats the house with steam. I got my gas bill too extremely high! To my knowledge I don’t abuse the heater. Is there a possibility my boiler is too old and uses lots of gas? Or would adjusting the thermostat like you mention on this video help me control the heater more? And if I replace my boiler with a new one, is there a possibility I could buy one that helps me save on gas?
grayfurnaceman yes sir, I just moved into this house, the boiler works good, it heats the house good but I can’t explain the high gas bill, I haven’t been using the heater too much
It may be a combination of the age of the house (perhaps no insulation) and an older boiler. Newer boilers have higher efficiency, but you need to contact an installer to get some pricing possible energy savings. GFM
I have Honeywell in my home. I’ve never encountered such a thing and I am very confused. The bottom part doesn’t move and remains on 80 degrees. I can adjust the top to water degrees I want. How can I fix this?
If the heat will not shut off, there are a number of reasons that could be the source. To eliminate the thermostat, you can remove the wire connected to the "W" at the thermostat subbase. If that stops the problem, replace the thermostat. If not, the problem may be in the appliance itself or the wiring. GFM
Mine is short cycling and I was gonna ask but the variable resistor just smoked and burned. I suppose if I knew the correct value I could solder in a resistor and have no adjustment or add a variable resistor? I keep them in stock in fact of many sorts. I'm getting .3 to .4 ohms across the entire range with the pointer lifted off the resistor. So I'm assuming I could start with about half of that? And see if it works until I can get the newer 87N version of this round thermostat. After seeing this thing smoke I think I know why they don't make em anymore. But give it ts dew it is very very old. Also It only takes one time for something to smoke and burn to see an old house burn to the ground! So I'm gonna add a fuse to my 24v power supply after seeing this and hope for the best. If it burns to the ground hopefully me and the wife will be out for a drive! Right?
The anticipator will burn out if there is a short in the control circuit. It is not a defect in the device. Newer electronic thermostats protect themselves by shutting down when there is a short. GFM
@@grayfurnaceman Ok thanks GFM! Ill check for a short. I noticed the new Honeywell T87N1000 looks just like its grandaddy but has the option not to send power back on G when W is called. That saves some headaches for the guy without a circuit board. I could have not even used G but then Fan On wouldn't work. I figured out how to do it by supplying power from the w relay to the g relay. If w is on or off I had power for my heater fan to run on the g relay, run its cool down cycle after g and w go away. Then when cooling is called or g by itself power turns off to the heater fan and turns the hi AC fan on. Is two 90-340s too much for the 24v circuit?
@@grayfurnaceman Wow I finally have my furnace all back up and running perfectly after it went down a month ago in a 13 degree cold snap. I first bought a new 90-340 fan relay locally, then ordered a pilot igniter 5 days later I find the furnace still would not light. It took two weeks to get the Honeywell S8610U off amazon to save 80 bucks vs getting it walk in local. I have thoroughly cleaned the evap coils, the blower fan and inspected the heat exchanger,. Cleaning the fan stopped all the shaking. It runs smooth as glass now. I did not find a short in the low voltage wires anywhere but the old Honeywell T87 smoked under power and replacing it with the new 87N1000 has fixed the thermostat issue. Now I need to clean the condenser coils good and I'll be set for a little while I suppose. Like a well greased machine it only lasts so long til it needs grease again. Thanks for your help and advice GFM! I've never had enough money to pay someone to fix my stuff.
How can I change mine? It's set on 5, but it's been like that since before my father passed away. It's just too hot sometimes, can you please help me? Thanks!
@@grayfurnaceman okay.its always been goofy in my apartment. It recently started not shutting off even with my thermostat all the way down and its still 80degrees
Yeah i think so.been it over 10 years and its not the first time its been 80degrees or higher .im hopin the landlord fixes it soon but i figured id see i could do anything in the mean time.thank you for your help and quick response
I have a gas steam heat boiler Manu label says 115 volt less than 12 amp at 60hz so what would I set the heat anticipator it too? It has numbers from 10, 20, 30, 40, and 60. Honeywell chronotherm
The anticipator is set to amp draw of the control circuit. This can be determined by checking the amp draw with a clamp meter on the W circuit. GFM@@Masterchief-jx2me
As i write this i just cleaned my Old thermostat (Hunter 4035A - 350 ) as it was very dusty and will see how it acts now... But i get confused on setting this with my Gas furnace which as far as i can tell is OLD .(Rheem).. Issue im trying to address is to much gap between when it comes on and then back off. Like it gets feeling cold, and it needs to come on, but isnt and then when it does, it gets to warm before furnace and fan has stopped . Im a renter and the landlord has no clue and has not sent anyone to look at it... Also its a very old building but has insulation... Last winter the blower fan was replaced ,,, which i had to do all the phone calls and leg work , and a local guy here said yes the furnace is old and he had a hard time getting a blower that would work with it.. He said it is Old but a goody....It looks like Rheem model number may be 3204-80JB,, gas fired force air..
I can't say I am familiar with that thermostat. There should be an installer setup for setting cycling rate. The cycling rate should be set for 4 to 6 cycles per hour. GFM
Hi "_' ...I need your help so desperately. I've searched & no luck. First off, I have really enjoyed your videos & bennifited from your knowledge. Thank you so much for sharing dear friend. I am def so very greatful. Ok so my q is: can we change the cycles per hour/anticipater with a Honeywell 7 day programmable thermostat & if so how? "_ '
I still don't know what is "higher vs lower" (is it Longer or shorter?) I have a forced air gas HVAC unit (not a heat pump) the house could be insulated better. It is what it is. When the unit is off there is no heat. House gets cold quickly I use space heaters set low to buffer this out. Where should the anticipator be set? (Longer or shorter?)
If you set it to match the control circuit amp draw, it will run 5 to 6 cycles per hour. The mercury is gone. However, there are still many snap action thermostats out there. Interestingly, I still find the Honeywell T87 stat out there, (first ones came out in 1953) but have never seen an electronic last more than 15 years. GFM
Im really stupid because I'm still not sure what I'm suppose to do to lower the cycle rate. Of rather have absolutely NO cycles honestly, but there's not an off switch. My place is always so hot. (Second floor, brick building.) Numbers arent my friend.
I’m confused on the cycle, what’s the perfect cycle to have it on so the house is not cold or to hot? I live in an apartment and we control our own heat and I have the same Honeywell thermostat in this video. I have poor circulation on the windows the cold air always gets in so I need to make the house warmer
The cycling rate tries to account for mechanical lag in the thermostat. It "anticipates" that the temp will drop and starts the unit a little early. If the anticipator is set correctly, there should be a constant temp in the structure. If it is set too low, there will be temp swings inside. If set too high, the unit will not be on long enough to keep the temp up. I can't say if anticipator adjustment would help in your case. GFM
I have a number of videos about thermostats. This one explains how to adjust the anticipator. Check my channel and search for "thermostat" for more info. GFM
Great video. Most technicians do not understand how these older style thermostats work. Yet, you find many still in service. Thanks for sharing your time and expertise. It is most appreciated.
Welcome
GFM
Melvin292 they are the most reliable,the electronic one’s fail or you do not understand how to setthem,or the instruction need a lot of help.
You're possibly the only guy I've found so far to have any content on this particular thermostat. Not sure if it will solve the issue I'm having, but knowledge is valuable, regardless of it's relevant use at the time. Thank you.
Welcome
GFM
Thank you. Will try that a little at a time. The furnace is '98 Lennox Ghr26 variety.
I have a furnace that turns on and off every couple minutes, will adjusting this make it so it only turns on at 5 degree individuals? Or would I need a new thermostat for this? Seems like this isn't good for the furnace
I would first jumper the thermostat out and see if it still short cycles.
GFM
Mechanical thermostat anticipator is factory calibrated to provide about 3 to 6 cycles per hour if set to the control circuit current draw. This is not appropriate for a steam boiler heating system because the boiler components and radiators need a longer cycle time to reach the boiling temperature of water, say 212°F. Set the anticipator slightly less than double the current draw and adjust the anticipator to provide a furnace run time of about 20-minutes for moderate outdoor temperatures around 40°F. During colder outdoor temperatures the furnace will likely run 25 to 30-minutes because of more rapid structure heat losses which impact the bimetallic thermostat sensor.
If you cannot measure the current draw, it is usually the gas valve current draw plus 0.10 ma.
First time this explained to me
With pellet stove Amp read across the 2 wires connected to thermostat
Just ordered nos Honeywell Stat for above stove
This helped a lot! THANK YOU.
Appreciate the info. What do I do if the temp on the top and temp on the bottom don’t match? Example is my inside temp will read 65 but in order to get that temp, I have to set it to around 72?
Usually the thermometer is out of calibration if the thermostat is level. Yes, round thermostats can be out of level. There are 2 pegs on the subbase to put the level on. Not much you can do about the thermometer.
GFM
GFM, first off, thanks for all your videos. Here's my question. I recently purchased a Honeywell RTH7600 to replace a T87F for my pellet stove. My T87F had the anticipator setting at the mark between .8 and 1.2, which I presume to be 1 cycle per hour. Should I stick with 1 CPH for the digital? It came set at 6 and I reduced it to 3 but it still causes problems because as my stove is shutting down, the thermostat makes it start back up without going through the entire startup sequence that is required, thus basically dumping all of my pellets into the burn pot without the heating element being on to initiate the fire. The cycle for my stove is basically getting the requirement to run from the thermostat, then the pellet auger runs for a preset period of time, while the heating element is heating and then causing a fire, once the sensors in the stove determine that the temperature in the stove is going up, it then calls for more pellets, turning the auger on, and then it continuously runs until the temperature is satisfied at the thermostat. At that point, the auger stops, and the fire burns out, but the fans stay on as long as the heat exchanger is warm, to continue to blow warm air into the room. My current issue is that while the fans are still running, just after the fire has gone out, the thermostat calls for more heat, initiating the auger, but because the stove hasn't completely shut down from the previous cycle, it doesn't do a proper startup and just dumps pellets. Sorry for the novel, but I would appreciate your expertise on this one.
Thumbs up for everything you cover.
My owners manual said to make a ten coil jumper between the R and W and then divide the reading by 10 to get the actual amps. So I did. With the house at 70 and the thermostat set on 80 the mechanical thermostat would run for about 6 minutes then shut off; wait another 6 minutes run for 6 minutes and shut off. I can assure you it was not a short cycle from the unit. The original digital thermostat would run for as long as it took to get it to the setpoint and then shut off.
Can a mechanical thermostat be forced to make the furnace run to the set point or are the start/stop intervals set in stone. What if I wanted the furnace to run for an hour with no interruption?
The mechanical thermostat should not shut down until the set point is very close if the anticipator is set correctly. When checking the amperage setting, have you waited until the furnace has started and the fan has started?
GFM
@@grayfurnaceman Thanks for replying. According to the manual you do the ten coils right at the base of the thermostat, divide by ten and Bob's your Aunty. I got 0.69 when everything was firing up, and by the time the blower settled into its run it was 0.67. I set the LUX mechanical to that but it would only run for close to the 2-degree rise then stop. It didn't seem to matter where I set the temperature slider except to maybe get it to restart a cycle a cycle if I jacked it to 85, but then it would STILL end after the 6 minutes never close to the setpoint. I was careful to level the device. I'm very curious if 6 minute cycles mean anything to a mechanical thermostat or even the blower control board?
I was so frustrated that I pulled out the mechanical and put the old thermostat in there. So, I never went so far as to adjust it past the measured amperage to a longer duty cycle. The location has always been in a protected space so that it represented room temperature with no drafts or register air. Curiously, the old thermostat could run the furnace indefinitely to the set point.
@@vaccinefraud5570 I would have to call your mechanical defective.
GFM
My concern is the pump will shutoff n I still have 140* temp on the gauge. So I want it to run longer before shutoff. Do I perform the same adjustment to the anticipatory or what can I do ?
Great video!
my indoor temp reads 10 degrees higher on my gold honeywell, can it be calibrated? thanks
Thanks for this helpfull video
Why is the bottom set to 80? How do you change that ?
Are there any thermostats where you can adjust the temperature range so that it won't cycle as much? Just a different way of getting the same result you explain here. Makes me curious though...
I got rid of my digital thermostat, got sick of changing the batteries and bought a T87.
My old Bryant gas boiler system with hydronic cast iron radiators appears to put out .1 amps.
Does that sound low?
I guess I’ll find out this winter if it cycles too much, I’ll slide the adjuster over.
There is no real answer to that. It depends on the control system.
GFM
@@grayfurnaceman
Thank you for the reply.
This is the most informative channel on the subject. I learned a lot here.
Hi, I'm glad to see your handle still showing up on RUclips!
I have a really simple question? How can I get at the anticipator on the basic white Honeywell round in the hallway of the apartment complex where I live? I cannot seem to figure out how to remove the cover ring, and I don't want to tug on something the wrong way and end up standing in the hallway holding a thermostat in my hand and wires dangling out the back of it and out of the wall...!
It seems to be mounted as level as possible, ther are no switches on the exterior, just the plastic disk you turn to adjust the heat.
The problem is that when it is set to 72-74F, it heats only to 68F. I'd like to adjust the anticipator so that a setting of 70 yields a temperature of 68. In other words, so the set point and temperature maintained are 2F apart instead of 5-6F apart.
Please helllllp! I won't touch anything until you instruct me how to get inside it. Promise!
Outside of the adjustment ring, is a plastic ring. Just pop it off. It is held on by spring clips.
GFM
@@grayfurnaceman I tried! Should I slip a flat object between the ring edge and the main unit, like a dime or a standard screwdriver?
@@Zickcermacity I would try the dime.
GFM
Okay I have question, so my heater keeps shutting off, I noticed when I tap my thermostat it comes back on then it goes back off it's starting to be a constant thing now, was wondering if you can explain, I have the same exact honeywell
Me too. Did you find an answer?
You may have covered this somewhere, but where would you test the amperage to get a starting figure? I think somewhere on my system, maybe the aquastat, there is a number, maybe .4 A, but where would I check it, anywhere in the thermostat circuit?
I would check amperage on the W wire. That will read the amperage going thru the thermostat.
GFM
thank you !
This is just the video I needed to see as I just discovered that I have an old Honeywell Mercury thermostat with an anticipator. I have never seen one of these until tonight as we have been trying to get our cottage to come up to at least 68 degrees. In order to get it to that temperature I had to set the thermostat to 76 degrees. We had an inspector in and all the temps on the wall units and boiler are perfect we just can't seem to get this place to stay an even temperature. He suggested a new thermostat which I bought when I took off the front of the old one to change it I noticed this anticipator for the first time. My Dad (who passed away) probably set this originally but I am lost as to where to set this anticipator since I don't have anything to get an amp reading. The numbers are hard to read. So can you tell me as a novice should I move it to the left for longer cycles and to the right for shorter cycles? Would the shorter cycles keep the place a more even temperature? Thanks for your help. Your video demonstrated to me how ignorant I am about all this. :-p
First, for the boiler system you want longer cycles.
Get out your magnifying glass and move toward "longer cycles".
GFM
@@grayfurnaceman thanks for the reply. I did do that and woke up to 55 degrees in the house. I think it is pretty safe to say I have a broken thermostat. :-) I have a new one and just worried about my skill set in replacing it but I will give it a try. Thanks again for all you do!
Which direction makes it cycle more and which direction makes it cycle less? I don't know the amperage. I'm changing it to 1.2 for the hell of it and seeing what happens.
The arrow points to longer cycles.
GFM
Thank you thank you thank you!
Thank you so much this has helped me so much
Welcome
GFM
Why are you multiplying by 1.2? Where does that number/constant come from?
That came from a class I took many years ago. I don't remember where it came from.
GFM
How do I calibrate an OLD “FAST” thermostat that looks similar to this one. It’s probably from the 1970s. It’s low by about 6 degrees.
The only effective way is to replace the thermostat.
GFM
grayfurnaceman,
Need your help ! I have a single pipe steam system. My old Honeywell Mercury thermostat went out and a few years ago I replaced it with a digital thermostat.
I didn't like the way I set it for 72, it runs until 73, then is off until it drops to 71 degrees. I was getting to much of a "hot cold" in the house. I think I had it set for the 2 cycles per hour.
I replaced it with w White Rogers simple "snap switch" type thinking it would be better and more accurate. My Amp draw on the gas valve is .23 amps. I set the Anticipator to the .23 and I'm still getting "swings". When it's in the 40's outside or high 30's, my radiators are getting cold, then heat kicks on and they get hot normally, but it seems to have to much "off time" and give me the same temp swings I had with the digital thermostat.
I been messing with the Anticipator trying to lower and raise the setting from .23 amps, but am noticing no difference.
I been reading to go higher closer to the 1.2 amps o the anticipator or steam systems, but all it seems to do is make it hotter, then colder, and it will be set for 72, but go up to 74 in the house before it shuts down.
Any suggestions to solve this problem ? It seems the digital thermostat worked better at this point but I don't like it because of the 1 degree increment change option only. 72 is to cold, and setting it to 73 degrees was to hot in the house.
Thank you
Normally, I would agree that fewer cycles is better on steam or hydronic systems. However, you may have more radiation than is necessary, especially if windows and insulation have been upgraded. I would set the anticipator to a lower number on mechanical and and 5 or 6 CPH on electronic.
GFM
This may be a long shot but here goes. I have a TH5-20 in an incubator I made and was wondering is there a way to change the differential ? Its to big of a gap in temps so I need to tighten the gap quite a bit. Is there a way to do that on this type of thermostat?
It is non adjustable. I would be looking at the A19 or A419 series of Johnson controls. They have adjustable differential.
GFM
@@grayfurnaceman oh ok thank you! And please remember JESUS is coming! Take care.
Ok so I’m trying to increase the time between cycles. My anticipatory was at .7 n times 1.2 gave me .84. I have it at .8 n seems to have done what I wanted. Does the senerio sound rite ?
Sounds ok to me.
GFM
can you do a video on wiring thermostat from the outdoor to in indoor unit and any thing you can think of about wiring thanks
will do what I can.
GFM
If you read the honeywell instruction they 4 or 4.5 ,I do not really understand,how did you came up w/the current?
This is for mechanical thermostats only. When the thermostat is calling for heat, the "W" circuit (heat) must be measured for amp draw. Then the thermostat anticipator is set to match the amp draw.
GFM
GFM can you explain the amp draw of the heating system? My T87 is attached to the tt terminals of a honeywell controller on a hot water boiler. Can you also explain why you multiply by 1.2 to get the value for longer cycle times?
If you set the anticipator to the amp draw of the circuit, you will have 5 to 6 cycles per hour. Boilers like longer cycles. The 1.2 multiplier feeds less heat to the anticipator, so the thermostat has a longer cycle. Note on the thermostat there is an arrow that shows longer cycles. Hope this helps.
GFM
@ grayfurnaceman
But the question remains, Sir! Why the 1.2 multiplier? Did you just choose a multiplier arbitrarily? If so, we could just simply pick a multiplier out of thin air and perhaps risk undesired consequences. I suspect that you chose that particular multiplier because 1.2 is the highest value on the anticipator scale and allows for the longest cycle rate. So, by taking a fraction of that rate, .3A draw in this case, you’ve lengthened the cycle rate and in so doing you’ve decreased the CPH from 6 to roughly 3. Perhaps I misinterpreted you. If so pardon me.
But, again, my main question remains. Where did you get 1.2 from and what scientific factor authorizes you to use it or dictates that it alone be used? In short, you don’t explain and justify it's use, unless I misinterpreted you, or missed something. Or have I answered my own question, somewhat?
After listening to this video I checked my anticipator and found it all the way up to 1.2 Been wondering why my water based heat pump was running so much. I dropped it to .3 to see what would happen. PS how did you determine the amp draw?
You can use a clamp meter on the W circuit.
GFM
@@grayfurnaceman TY
Hi I have one I want to put it in my garage I have 3 wires red green and white but only two screws witch wire do I use thank you it's a gas furnace
Red and white are for the heat. Green is for fan.
GFM
I believe I have a boiler, it’s the old radiator heater system type that heats the house with steam. I got my gas bill too extremely high! To my knowledge I don’t abuse the heater. Is there a possibility my boiler is too old and uses lots of gas? Or would adjusting the thermostat like you mention on this video help me control the heater more? And if I replace my boiler with a new one, is there a possibility I could buy one that helps me save on gas?
Thermostat changes will probably not help. Age of the boiler could be the reason for the high gas bill. Are you new to the house?
GFM
grayfurnaceman yes sir, I just moved into this house, the boiler works good, it heats the house good but I can’t explain the high gas bill, I haven’t been using the heater too much
It may be a combination of the age of the house (perhaps no insulation) and an older boiler. Newer boilers have higher efficiency, but you need to contact an installer to get some pricing possible energy savings.
GFM
Well, you talked all around the theory of setting the anticipator, but never showed us how to adjust it.
I have Honeywell in my home. I’ve never encountered such a thing and I am very confused. The bottom part doesn’t move and remains on 80 degrees. I can adjust the top to water degrees I want. How can I fix this?
The bottom indicator is a thermometer. It could be stuck.
GFM
my house is old ac sucks if i want it ac longer what should i do
My thermostat is constantly on. How can I turn the heat down or off. Please help
If the heat will not shut off, there are a number of reasons that could be the source.
To eliminate the thermostat, you can remove the wire connected to the "W" at the thermostat subbase. If that stops the problem, replace the thermostat. If not, the problem may be in the appliance itself or the wiring.
GFM
Mine is short cycling and I was gonna ask but the variable resistor just smoked and burned. I suppose if I knew the correct value I could solder in a resistor and have no adjustment or add a variable resistor?
I keep them in stock in fact of many sorts. I'm getting .3 to .4 ohms across the entire range with the pointer lifted off the resistor.
So I'm assuming I could start with about half of that? And see if it works until I can get the newer 87N version of this round thermostat.
After seeing this thing smoke I think I know why they don't make em anymore. But give it ts dew it is very very old.
Also It only takes one time for something to smoke and burn to see an old house burn to the ground!
So I'm gonna add a fuse to my 24v power supply after seeing this and hope for the best. If it burns to the ground hopefully me and the wife will be out for a drive! Right?
The anticipator will burn out if there is a short in the control circuit. It is not a defect in the device.
Newer electronic thermostats protect themselves by shutting down when there is a short.
GFM
@@grayfurnaceman Ok thanks GFM!
Ill check for a short.
I noticed the new Honeywell T87N1000 looks just like its grandaddy but has the option not to send power back on G when W is called.
That saves some headaches for the guy without a circuit board.
I could have not even used G but then Fan On wouldn't work.
I figured out how to do it by supplying power from the w relay to the g relay.
If w is on or off I had power for my heater fan to run on the g relay, run its cool down cycle after g and w go away. Then when cooling is called or g by itself power turns off to the heater fan and turns the hi AC fan on.
Is two 90-340s too much for the 24v circuit?
The 2 relays are ok with a 40 VA transformer.
GFM@@RC-Heli835
@@grayfurnaceman Wow I finally have my furnace all back up and running perfectly after it went down a month ago in a 13 degree cold snap.
I first bought a new 90-340 fan relay locally, then ordered a pilot igniter 5 days later I find the furnace still would not light.
It took two weeks to get the Honeywell S8610U off amazon to save 80 bucks vs getting it walk in local.
I have thoroughly cleaned the evap coils, the blower fan and inspected the heat exchanger,. Cleaning the fan stopped all the shaking. It runs smooth as glass now.
I did not find a short in the low voltage wires anywhere but the old Honeywell T87 smoked under power and replacing it with the new 87N1000 has fixed the thermostat issue.
Now I need to clean the condenser coils good and I'll be set for a little while I suppose.
Like a well greased machine it only lasts so long til it needs grease again.
Thanks for your help and advice GFM!
I've never had enough money to pay someone to fix my stuff.
Does a digital stat do this all by itself?
Thanks!
How can I change mine? It's set on 5, but it's been like that since before my father passed away. It's just too hot sometimes, can you please help me? Thanks!
If you are attempting to change the anticipation for cooling, there is no adjustment on the thermostat. Your problem probably is elsewhere.
GFM
grayfurnaceman how do I turn it on cool its to hot in my house???
Set the thermostat to cool. Then set the temp where you want it. If it still does not cool, you need a tech to look at it.
GFM
always good, thank you ...
We have an older Thermostat than this..Its Tall square shape so i Don't know how to adjust it.
If its a White Rodgers brand, it may have a dial at the center inside.
GFM
Mine is all the way down at 1.2..would that cause my heat to never shut off?
It would not cause it to never shut off, but you could have wide temp swings.
GFM
@@grayfurnaceman okay.its always been goofy in my apartment. It recently started not shutting off even with my thermostat all the way down and its still 80degrees
@@trunkbangking I think your problem is not in the thermostat. You probably have a failure in the equipment.
GFM
Yeah i think so.been it over 10 years and its not the first time its been 80degrees or higher .im hopin the landlord fixes it soon but i figured id see i could do anything in the mean time.thank you for your help and quick response
So less cycles = longer boiler burner running time ?
Yes
GFM
I have a gas steam heat boiler
Manu label says 115 volt less than 12 amp at 60hz so what would I set the heat anticipator it too? It has numbers from 10, 20, 30, 40, and 60. Honeywell chronotherm
The anticipator is set to amp draw of the control circuit. This can be determined by checking the amp draw with a clamp meter on the W circuit.
GFM@@Masterchief-jx2me
@grayfurnaceman So my anticipator says 10 20 30 40 in practice 10 is a longer running time than 40?
Yes
GFM@@Masterchief-jx2me
Just tell me if following all your advice will stop my kids from touching the thermostat
Try disconnecting the thermostat.
Then place a remote sensor inside the dummy thermostat that goes to the real one that only you know where it is. lol
As i write this i just cleaned my Old thermostat (Hunter 4035A - 350 ) as it was very dusty and will see how it acts now... But i get confused on setting this with my Gas furnace which as far as i can tell is OLD .(Rheem)..
Issue im trying to address is to much gap between when it comes on and then back off. Like it gets feeling cold, and it needs to come on, but isnt and then when it does, it gets to warm before furnace and fan has stopped .
Im a renter and the landlord has no clue and has not sent anyone to look at it... Also its a very old building but has insulation...
Last winter the blower fan was replaced ,,, which i had to do all the phone calls and leg work , and a local guy here said yes the furnace is old and he had a hard time getting a blower that would work with it.. He said it is Old but a goody....It looks like Rheem model number may be 3204-80JB,, gas fired force air..
I can't say I am familiar with that thermostat. There should be an installer setup for setting cycling rate. The cycling rate should be set for 4 to 6 cycles per hour.
GFM
Hi "_' ...I need your help so desperately. I've searched & no luck. First off, I have really enjoyed your videos & bennifited from your knowledge. Thank you so much for sharing dear friend. I am def so very greatful. Ok so my q is: can we change the cycles per hour/anticipater with a Honeywell 7 day programmable thermostat & if so how? "_ '
How to clean this type of thermostat from cigarette smoke and household dust?...Please :) Thank you very much!...:) :) :)
If you are careful, you can use a vacuum. Do not touch any parts of the thermostat with the wand. Other than that do nothing.
GFM
Use a pressure washer and degreaser
Thanks a lot, and it's working perfect now. Again, thank you very much for the advice. :) :) :)
Thank you very much for the advice. :) :) :)
I still don't know what is "higher vs lower" (is it Longer or shorter?) I have a forced air gas HVAC unit (not a heat pump) the house could be insulated better. It is what it is.
When the unit is off there is no heat. House gets cold quickly I use space heaters set low to buffer this out. Where should the anticipator be set? (Longer or shorter?)
I would set it on shorter cycles.
GFM
and how to wire safety switches in to the wiring
Does this really only let the unit run 6 cycles per hour? I remember my 1st boss teaching me about this but mercury stats are pretty much gone.
If you set it to match the control circuit amp draw, it will run 5 to 6 cycles per hour. The mercury is gone. However, there are still many snap action thermostats out there. Interestingly, I still find the Honeywell T87 stat out there, (first ones came out in 1953) but have never seen an electronic last more than 15 years.
GFM
Im really stupid because I'm still not sure what I'm suppose to do to lower the cycle rate.
Of rather have absolutely NO cycles honestly, but there's not an off switch. My place is always so hot. (Second floor, brick building.)
Numbers arent my friend.
Sounds like your furnace is stuck on. Is it a boiler?
GFM
I’m confused on the cycle, what’s the perfect cycle to have it on so the house is not cold or to hot? I live in an apartment and we control our own heat and I have the same Honeywell thermostat in this video. I have poor circulation on the windows the cold air always gets in so I need to make the house warmer
The cycling rate tries to account for mechanical lag in the thermostat. It "anticipates" that the temp will drop and starts the unit a little early. If the anticipator is set correctly, there should be a constant temp in the structure. If it is set too low, there will be temp swings inside. If set too high, the unit will not be on long enough to keep the temp up. I can't say if anticipator adjustment would help in your case.
GFM
man, you take forever to get to a point.. more explaining next time please
Dude what?
the guy never actually explained any thing....
I have a number of videos about thermostats. This one explains how to adjust the anticipator. Check my channel and search for "thermostat" for more info.
GFM
Huh?
If you don't understand this video, you can check at the beginning of the video for a playlist on thermostats that may help.
GFM