This man has an intoxicatingly pragmatic intellect. I cannot get enough of his theories and just the dead-pan comprehensive grasp he has on the subjects he talks about. He is severely underrated and I think his discoveries, theories, and postulations throw such a massive wrench into nihilistic gears of pessimistic materialism. So many debates of free-will, soul, and quantum-woo I've heard where they use scientifically-dogmatic arguments that would flounder (or just straight die) in the face of these new breakthroughs.
Many of his ideas are inspired by the philosophy of "Advaita Vedanta" anyone interested in the nature of consciousness must try to read them.The reason for mentioning this was Vedanta is largely ignored.
Why do you think his and Penrose's model of consciousness infuriates so many people? It poses a huge challenge to what we think about free will and the soul and pessimistic materialism. Their model would have been mocked into obscurity were it not for Penrose's huge status in the physics community.
I cannot help but to relate this notion of discrete frames of consciousness with the feeling while on LSD that sight gets frozen in place for a noticeable period of time before getting replaced by "the next frame" (only at a frequency from 20Hz down to possibly 0.3Hz, i.e. frozen for 3 seconds). And of course, fractals, lots of fractals.
such observations with lsd 10 -15 years ago is why i pursued a master and now doing a phd, trying to bridge my bachelor background with the field of consciousness studies. Unfortunately I cannot take any psychedelics any more and i will probabely never be able to try DMT :( my hardware is broken by other shitty stuff :(
my theory is that psychedelics make the amount of conscious experiences per second expolosively increase. This leads to time feeling slower, things being enhanced, the brain is able to simulate things and imagine things you couldn't otherwise, and like you said your hand looks like its frozen in place because your time perception is slower due to the increase of consciousness.
@@caroline7648 Aside from the paranoia I get from smoking this is exactly how it feels. My brain seems to be able to comprehend more in some way. Everything is intensified but slowed down.
@@tbroad72 There is a section in the book "Stalking the wild pendulum" by Itzak Bentov where he describes this exact phenomenon very well. I don't remember exactly but fortunately the book is an incredible read that is worth checking out. But in essence he says what you both said, its like the slowing down allows consciousness to explore more during each second. I believe this is similar to when you are in deep meditative states and what feels like significant amounts of exploration and time have occurred, when it actuality it was seconds or minutes. Super interesting stuff
I honestly think Stuart and Roger Penrose are nearly there on their microtubial consciousness theory and the amoeba argument is a good one. When you look at even smaller agents like viruses you have to wonder how they know what to do..ie infect a host. The way some viruses can adapt, evolve and even trick hosts demonstrates some form of capacity to learn. The virus is effectively coming up with a development strategy. How does it ‘know’ to do that as a single strand of DNA/RNA. No biologist has yet given me a completely plausible answer on this aspect. It seems these micro agents can some how ‘think’. I also work in anaesthetics by the way....
There is subneural computation (actin filaments as collsion computing, MT sets as geometric phase) but it's not the quantum/digital type that OrchOR promotes.
@Quantum Decoherence select for naturally? By what or by whom? That does not answer the question. I have spent 30 years in drug development (part specialising in anaesthetics) at AstraZeneca and I have seen no plausible research paper actually giving any tangible answer. I am not saying viruses are fully conscious by any means but there is an element of what we might think of as 'primary conciousness' and clearly no brain is required for it. The theories cover the what, the whys and the whens but do not get behind the 'how' regarding their ability to strategise. The OrchOR theory cant account for the virus theory as they are sub-cellular but it does make sense, certainly for anaesthetics.
Viruses are not exacly alive, more like vehicles with codes, they don't reproduce but replicate and only in hosts. It really is just vast number of simultaneous calculations and trail and error untill one works. They can even burn out because of mutation against own 'survival' The more deadly the virus is the less infectious it becomes in reality because the host is bed bound but the virus doesn't understand it. They don't even mutate that often it's just that these days we have so many hosts that makes it appear like the same virus mutates. The covid strain in UK doesn't know about the covid strain on Nigeria.
Humanity will always remain thankful for his sinscre efforts & hardwork for finding TRUTH.......and one day he may be right person to be interviewed for the same purpose. ( TRUTH)....I really like his style of interviewing the person. ... thanks 🙏
I’ve suffered chronic sleep deprivation most my life and was acutely aware of how my consciousness slowed down. All my thoughts were gummed up. After a rare good night sleep it was amazing how easily my thoughts flowed and memories recalled. I want my money back for my poor experience of reality so far :p
Count me in on that, Eric. (on both counts, money back as well as same/similar experience. Isn't it amazing to what extent our experience of consciousness depends on health and physical homeostasis? Or take chronic pain, e.g. and pretty much everything you are left to "think" about is said pain.... Huh.)
I’ve been in chronic pain and endlessly sick my whole life. Sleep, I get 1-3 hours a day so I feel you. I’ve suffered endlessly for what? To have rare moments where I can steal peace in between my pain? Meh, life sucks. It’s unfair and has no purpose. There’s endless examples of people worse than myself but extremely rare and yet infinitely better examples.
Stuart Hameroff must be attended to much more by the scientists who have not made ANY headway in understanding consciousness, maintaining strict materialism. They are the ones closed and obstinate, fearful of the prevailing ideology (that gets all the funding). Very intelligent man, with highly credible research. One day he will be vindicated and honored.
Can a protozoa comprehend itself? It takes something much more complex to comprehend what it is and explain its workings. I'm just not sure we can explain consciousness. All we can do right now is make some comments on its happenings. It is to me clearly related to life itself so I don't think rocks are conscious or weather patterns as he says, but a plant or a cell might be. They seem to have some kind of a will or intentionality. Is consciousness self awareness? What is self awareness? It could even be argued that the most simple life forms have a very basic sense of that too. Maybe thats all consciousness is: self awareness. But what is life? How does inanimate matter become self aware? I think that's the bigger, more fundamental question here.m
He is talking about awareness NOT sejf awareness . The consciouness is Occuring at Different level from mega hertz to Nano Hertz .. Conciousness of rock amd mammals are different
That idea comes from Tesla,but what Stuart Hammer off is saying is,because quantum vibrations have been found in brain microtubules and brain microtubules are information processors in the brain the brain is probably a quantum computer.
Definitely interesting topic, I think cellular maybe overshooting the target. Now I would say something like , identify the conscience , unconscious and subconscious systems. Map that out and then it will undoubtedly give you a unique perspective.
A lot of verbiage, speculation, hypotheses, and some science thrown into the stew, but no closer to resolving the question of how awareness of awareness comes to be, and what the essential elements are for it to turn on. As long as civilization stays viable enough to support continuing scientific discovery I expect we will eventually create conscious machines. Whether that will be to our benefit or destroy us is a very open question.
Fun fact: William James, the "founder of American psychology" was the brother of Henry James, the author who wrote The Turn of the Screw, the Beast in the Jungle, The Altar of the Dead and many other superb stories.
I’ve been in chronic pain and endlessly sick my whole life. Sleep, I get 1-3 hours a day so I feel you. I’ve suffered endlessly for what? To have rare moments where I can steal peace in between my pain? Meh, life sucks. It’s unfair and has no purpose. There’s endless examples of people worse than myself but extremely rare and yet infinitely can find people living better life’s. No clue what the point is. Why won’t people let me kill myself.
Could pure consciousness be so much at the base of the individual's mind that it's almost like an external thing to him or her? Like as if it were the border between complex sensory perception and the physical world...
Agreed. Because is a Venus fly trap conscious when it catches flies? I don't reckon because it's senses aren't that complex. Maybe it's an evolutionary thing where we need to be fully conscious to survive
@@Skankhunt420.: I don't think the plant has exactly senses, it has some other type of physical process inside it. And without mind and proper senses, even if the plant has consciousness, as it were hehe, it would be a colorless, empty consciousness. I would speculate that consciousness is like a plane of reality that is out there, and serves as a ground or basis for free will, whatever that is, and where ever that appears.
@@mithrandir2006 consciousness is just experience, possibility and awareness. Every particle has some form of consciousness. Not as complex as us but it’s still conscious
@@Skankhunt420. I have a climbing vine plant and it's fascinating how it shoots into open space, hovers there for a day and then it does a uturn because there was nothing to hook on there. It doesn't exacly touch or sees anything, it must be detecting 'space' and learning. I joke that from all the plants the vines are the most risk taking ;-)
Interesting that he mentions mormonism because mormon metaphysics appears to me more reasonable than classic christian view. (Where Intelligence/Consciousness and matter are considered as fundamental and independent of god.)
I think the core philosophy of vedant is about non dualism but how does Christianity fits in !?? Its completely pseudoscientific , I might have a wrong perception about the philosophy of crishtianity.
To me, consciousness is a mental process that repeats over and over again. It attempts to answer 2 questions 1) What is going on? 2) What should I do? I'm fairly sure consciousness exists in all living creatures.
the more i listen to hmaeroff, penrose and anriban the more convinced i get. At the very least those phenomena/systems/functions they describe should be considered as correlates to consciousness and cognition.
Maybe we're all just parts of a collective consciousness that is God experiencing reality in a way to not be aware of our previous state and what separates us from this collective consciousness is the brain which gives illusion that we're not all one and keeps us bound to physical limitations, remove the brain and the consciousness just goes back to its true state of oneness so brain/body is nothing but a vessel. Just think if you were an eternal being probably bored all by yourself this is exactly what you'd create, a reality where life can experience life. I think that also answers the question to the meaning of life. So the meaning of life is simply to experience life, sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one.
I enjoyed that, but where’s the experimental evidence for processing in microtubules? Re behaviorism: It’s almost a tenet of faith that 20th Century psychology was dominated by behaviorism, but was it really? You see a lot of behaviorist methodology and terminology in lab experiments, but not the theoretical framework. When I was in grad school in the 1970s not one of my classes or texts was from a behaviorist point of view, but we did use the behaviorist methodology is training animals and evaluating drug effects and brain stimulation in animals.
The brain is an antenna for the eternal consciousness to have different experiences. We are the vessel. We are the eternal consciousness. We are the God?
Does subjective awareness have anything to do with future time? Quantum fields moving into future time may have something to with subjective conscious awareness?
Consciousness and it's nature was first discussed in the Vedas and Upanishads, the ancient Hindu texts of ancient India, around 3000 BC (2500 years before the Buddha - who himself was an Indian prince - was born)
But I don't know why Upnishads are largely ignored by the west , first they paraglise and then they never care to give due credits to our philosophers.
Really enjoyed this. Super biased, but still very cool. That's not to say his ideas are wrong, but just wanted to point out that being dismissive of other research areas/paths doesn't make his better.
Hi mate, the assumption you use is that there is a you, and thus a thing having an experience. This is also fundamental to the question, so let's build it into the definitiin: "the level of consciousness that is active from a point of perception, is analogous to that point of perception's level of capacity to know itself. Boom. Please have a little think about that. It encompasses all potential points of perception, from a rock to a plant to a big to a dolphin to a human. How well can that point know itself? And this allows all human spectrum of conscious "levels" to be defined simply as the level of self knowledge. What's nice is that of course this cannot be subjectively measured or defined by an alternative point. It also allows very quickly for interpenetrating fields of consciousness across all of existence. And the mystic experience, where according to the sufis, he who knows himself, knows his lord. Anyway. Much appreciated.
Robert asks Hameroff what his evidence is for thinking consciousness is a series of discrete moments and he replies, "Whitehead, Wm James, Buddhism...". What kind of answer is that? Maybe all those guys were wrong.
Maybe, but they were able to notice gaps in between discrete moments and even count them. He has it discussed in his papers and referenced. I think the theory came from that observation not the other way around. I don't know how else could this be demonstrated experimentally...I mean without some hardcore drugs. It's like we need a microscope for time :-)
@@mj-uc6wc We have quantum mechanics for describing reality on super-small scales, and while it shows .. experimentally.. that things like energy, motion and mass come in discrete packets, time, like space, presents itself ..experimentally.. as continuous on even the smallest measured scale.
@@workingTchr He makes a clear distinction in his paper to consciousness frames, he is discussing mental phenomena. People confuse the philosophy of quantum physics as a whole with quantum processes in microtubules. I see this over and over again.
@@mj-uc6wc "Consciousness frames". Hmm. Well if you've come far enough to appreciate the "hard problem", this is the kind of thing you might expect. OK, this hangs together. I didn't know. Thanks. I'll check it out.
Dr Stuart Hameroff is correct that consciousness is linked to frequency. Once your consciousness hits a high frequency you lose all interest in worldly affairs which isn't good if you want to live on earth. Hahaha.
If we go deep into this consciouness and just go on thinking about it, then person will go mad.Person will see the world as " world simply is not real , it is just a imagination".If this will be the case then how will person enjoy this world.
All religion teaches that as humans we are soul and spirit in material bodies. I suggest that when the cells in human brains die, just as occurs with all other animals, the energy that once was in those brain cells, transfers to other forms of material life, and that as a species, we are not at all "special." It makes more sense to me that the universe, in one form or another, always existed ... no creator involved. That is what Stephen Hawking believed before he died.
Regardless of the definition, OrchOR's (digital) theory relies on a superposition of the dimer. This was proven false in 2016. The monomer/dimer/MT behaves as an Mflux braiding set. Still subneural computation but confirming either FIT/GML or WLC. Also there's a handedness breaking issue along the MT. Any data's superposition would be shorn apart at these points. Hameroff also uses a 'quantum correlation' for anesthetics. This too was falsified by Yang, Liu, Wang, et al 2018 (Heimburg's lipid crystallization theory for signalling confirmed using lasers).
"it moved just through chemical mechanisms." So do human beings or any other sentient being. Organisms cannot be reduced to mechanisms. The fundamental differences between one and the other are blatant and obvious.
@@Samsara_is_dukkha I know that humans are platonic archetypes that are projected into superpositions in the brain. But that doesn’t means I believe that to be true for paramediums as well. With this being said, I am happy to know someone here that knows that consciousness is non-algorithmic. Nice to meet you.
@@SkyDarmos I was only responding to two notions: 1/ the notion of "chemical mechanisms" in organisms and 2/ the notion of falsification. While "chemical mechanisms" are indeed observable in organisms, they cannot be used as defining processes since the same "mechanisms" are observable elsewhere. That being the case, we could equally claim that humans are no more conscious than test tubes since they react to the exact same chemical mechanisms from time to time. As for the notion of falsification, it has been long understood (by Popper, Lakatos et al) that the methodology rests on conventionalism which is no more acceptable than positivism or verificationism as valid scientific methods. So to reject "paramecium consciousness" on these bases is shaky to say the least. Nice to meet you too...
@@Samsara_is_dukkha I think the ground on which paramecium consciousness was rejected is that they don’t have a nervous system, and that is normally regarded as a precondition for consciousness. While Penrose knew that, he thought that the microtubuli in it could function as a nervous system and guide its behavior, but then later it was found that all the behavior can be accounted for by very simple mechanisms unrelated to microtubuli. The thing is that you would need to observe behavior that is a bit more complicated than push and pull. All you see with these creatures is that the bump into a wall, and then swim back automatically and then reproach from a slightly different angle. They don’t see so they try out all angles, in a purely mechanical fashion that can be perfectly simulated in a computer. It is the kind of behavior that one would also expect from a plant. So, until they have some more impressive behavior, I regard them as unconscious. That doesn’t mean that nothing non-computational is going on with them, but that they are not collapsing wavefunctions.
@@SkyDarmosThere are many assumptions in what you say that I will neither agree nor disagree with because, basically, the bottom line is "we don't know". For example, you say: "I think the ground on which paramecium consciousness was rejected is that they don’t have a nervous system, and that is normally regarded as a precondition for consciousness." You are correct of course but that statement rests basically on conventionalism. What is "normally regarded as a precondition for consciousness" is just a convention agreed upon by a bunch of self-important scientists who, in reality, have no clear definition of consciousness, no explanation for its existence and no solid theory for its emergence (if any) and/or functioning. Once you have established such convention and accepted it as "true" as a basis for reasoning, all the following arguments are logically built on the same shaky foundation. For the record, in 2007 the Lancet published an article (Titled: "Brain of a white-collar worker) about a 44 year old man leading a perfectly normal life although 50 to 75% of his brain was missing. Could such a case "falsify" the conventional claim that nervous systems are a precondition for consciousness? Perhaps... And it would entirely depend on a clear and unequivocal definition of consciousness that we don't currently have or agree upon. "The thing is that you would need to observe behavior that is a bit more complicated than push and pull. All you see with these creatures is that the bump into a wall, and then swim back automatically and then reproach from a slightly different angle. They don’t see so they try out all angles, in a purely mechanical fashion that can be perfectly simulated in a computer." Computer simulated behaviour, however simple or complex, does not confirm nor deny the possibility that the organism's objectively observed behaviour is accompanied by a subjective experience. The only way to know would be to ask the organism which would prove impossible in the case of plants, single-cell organisms or any organism other than humans and some rare examples of primates (eg.: Koko the gorilla) who are able to communicate their subjective experience through learned sign language. "So, until they have some more impressive behavior, I regard them as unconscious." Instead of jumping to such a hasty conclusion, I would tend to err on the side of caution and assume that all sentient beings have a level of consciousness albeit perhaps relatively low compared to ours and treat them with utmost respect.
Consciousness? How is the memory of the taste of steak get stored in a wet mush? Or the memory of a long dead friends face get stored . Forget about it:)
Hameroff is extremely compelling to listen too .....and I’m a skeptic - so I automatically dismiss most “WOO “ that I hear. However, I am aware that Hameroff is not completely WOO free.....hahah✌🏼
People who have undergone major surgery remember counting down from 10 or 100 and the next thing they knew was being on the recovery room five or more hours later. No dreams, no nightmares, no fears, no sense of self. When we die that consciousness is gone *forever.* 💕 ☮ 🌎 🌌
By the theory, when you are under anesthesia it blocks the proceses from occurring which is why you basicaly black out and wake up with no memory from when you were anesthetised
Consciousness create reality. Prespective of quantum mechanics, we are a Quantum Universe which exists everywhere to which no law applies. We are a form of desire. Due to experience, people know who he is ? But to experience is the work of the soul (consciousness). ________________________________ Thinking is a state of consciousness. No law applies to thinking. Thinking means, experiencing.work of consciousness. We are being experienced from the prespective of consciousness. Experience is not our identity. Death is no such thing, meaningless event. After death ? We will find overselves in the whole universe as consciousness. Because, thinking is a state of consciousness. At the moment we are experiencing through this body. Creation has no meaning without experience. Prespective of consciousness whatever is happening is happening in nothingnes. Past present future running in nothingness. Because, no law applies to consciousness. The universe is experiencing itself. Because, we are a Quantum Universe which exists everywhere to which no law applies. Whatever happens in the world is at the will of humans. Our prayer are fulfilled through God,this too is the thinking of humans. Because, pelrayer is a form of think, state of consciousness. Please recognize your thinking ability
Without the word "soul," there couldn't be any religion. All stories are based on what the soul is thinking, and what the soul is doing, and where the soul came from, and where the soul is going after death of the physical body. Fortunes have been made by theologians who taught that the soul is a gift from God, and that women must never have abortions, because abortions offend God's gift to humanity. Evolution of the soul is a huge seller in religion. It means that your soul is ever upgrading and will hopefully soon make the grade of God's "entire" approval of enlightenment and salvation … or … that in the afterlife something horrible could happen to your soul. If you remove the word "soul" from religion, you will not have anything but ground zero.
Nope. Consciousness is self-similarity, and it happens whenever something models itself. For example, we are living organisms that observe and model our environments. We are also part of the environment, so when we model the environment, we model ourselves. That's it. So simple. No mysticism required.
Wow, looks like you solved it! My robot knows its location in our environment and details about its surroundings every time I ask it - I never knew it was conscious!
The Consciousness is GOD that is very similar to the human built AI and voice systems. This is how we're able to speak, hear, taste, smell, feel emotions, the senses of touch and observe visible images that look very real. Everything we experience is the consciousness processing the thoughts of our Creator whether they are temporary which we're experiencing in this generation or the eternal thoughts where the creation was programmed for the next generation.
This man has an intoxicatingly pragmatic intellect. I cannot get enough of his theories and just the dead-pan comprehensive grasp he has on the subjects he talks about. He is severely underrated and I think his discoveries, theories, and postulations throw such a massive wrench into nihilistic gears of pessimistic materialism. So many debates of free-will, soul, and quantum-woo I've heard where they use scientifically-dogmatic arguments that would flounder (or just straight die) in the face of these new breakthroughs.
Many of his ideas are inspired by the philosophy of "Advaita Vedanta" anyone interested in the nature of consciousness must try to read them.The reason for mentioning this was Vedanta is largely ignored.
Why do you think his and Penrose's model of consciousness infuriates so many people? It poses a huge challenge to what we think about free will and the soul and pessimistic materialism. Their model would have been mocked into obscurity were it not for Penrose's huge status in the physics community.
Damn, this is well produced. I like the kids playing in the background, actuality. Adds something organic to the deep discussion
The most pragmatic, to the point explanation. I wish other scientists could think this way.
Best way he ever explained it. Also not being combattant
I cannot help but to relate this notion of discrete frames of consciousness with the feeling while on LSD that sight gets frozen in place for a noticeable period of time before getting replaced by "the next frame" (only at a frequency from 20Hz down to possibly 0.3Hz, i.e. frozen for 3 seconds). And of course, fractals, lots of fractals.
such observations with lsd 10 -15 years ago is why i pursued a master and now doing a phd, trying to bridge my bachelor background with the field of consciousness studies. Unfortunately I cannot take any psychedelics any more and i will probabely never be able to try DMT :( my hardware is broken by other shitty stuff :(
@@SiEmG What's your trouble, if I may ask?
my theory is that psychedelics make the amount of conscious experiences per second expolosively increase. This leads to time feeling slower, things being enhanced, the brain is able to simulate things and imagine things you couldn't otherwise, and like you said your hand looks like its frozen in place because your time perception is slower due to the increase of consciousness.
@@caroline7648 Aside from the paranoia I get from smoking this is exactly how it feels. My brain seems to be able to comprehend more in some way. Everything is intensified but slowed down.
@@tbroad72 There is a section in the book "Stalking the wild pendulum" by Itzak Bentov where he describes this exact phenomenon very well. I don't remember exactly but fortunately the book is an incredible read that is worth checking out. But in essence he says what you both said, its like the slowing down allows consciousness to explore more during each second. I believe this is similar to when you are in deep meditative states and what feels like significant amounts of exploration and time have occurred, when it actuality it was seconds or minutes. Super interesting stuff
The universe causes consciousness in any living entity. The universe is conscious.
Do you think thee Double Slit experiment would explain this theory as well 🤔
The truth is beyond conscious thought.
🤣🤣🤣
There is no conscious thought
How do you know that?
Consciousness has nothing to do with thought.
I honestly think Stuart and Roger Penrose are nearly there on their microtubial consciousness theory and the amoeba argument is a good one. When you look at even smaller agents like viruses you have to wonder how they know what to do..ie infect a host. The way some viruses can adapt, evolve and even trick hosts demonstrates some form of capacity to learn. The virus is effectively coming up with a development strategy. How does it ‘know’ to do that as a single strand of DNA/RNA. No biologist has yet given me a completely plausible answer on this aspect. It seems these micro agents can some how ‘think’. I also work in anaesthetics by the way....
There is subneural computation (actin filaments as collsion computing, MT sets as geometric phase) but it's not the quantum/digital type that OrchOR promotes.
@Quantum Decoherence select for naturally? By what or by whom? That does not answer the question. I have spent 30 years in drug development (part specialising in anaesthetics) at AstraZeneca and I have seen no plausible research paper actually giving any tangible answer. I am not saying viruses are fully conscious by any means but there is an element of what we might think of as 'primary conciousness' and clearly no brain is required for it. The theories cover the what, the whys and the whens but do not get behind the 'how' regarding their ability to strategise. The OrchOR theory cant account for the virus theory as they are sub-cellular but it does make sense, certainly for anaesthetics.
Viruses are not exacly alive, more like vehicles with codes, they don't reproduce but replicate and only in hosts. It really is just vast number of simultaneous calculations and trail and error untill one works. They can even burn out because of mutation against own 'survival' The more deadly the virus is the less infectious it becomes in reality because the host is bed bound but the virus doesn't understand it. They don't even mutate that often it's just that these days we have so many hosts that makes it appear like the same virus mutates. The covid strain in UK doesn't know about the covid strain on Nigeria.
@user-fm7on5sg5p brah, hate to break it to ya but your totally tarded and wrong brah
Ooff I look at when you posted this and think: if you could only have known...
Humanity will always remain thankful for his sinscre efforts & hardwork for finding TRUTH.......and one day he may be right person to be interviewed for the same purpose. ( TRUTH)....I really like his style of interviewing the person. ... thanks 🙏
I’ve suffered chronic sleep deprivation most my life and was acutely aware of how my consciousness slowed down. All my thoughts were gummed up. After a rare good night sleep it was amazing how easily my thoughts flowed and memories recalled. I want my money back for my poor experience of reality so far :p
Count me in on that, Eric. (on both counts, money back as well as same/similar experience. Isn't it amazing to what extent our experience of consciousness depends on health and physical homeostasis? Or take chronic pain, e.g. and pretty much everything you are left to "think" about is said pain.... Huh.)
I sleep too much and my memory is not great either
Ok please send me your paypal address I'll provide you with a refund
I’ve been in chronic pain and endlessly sick my whole life. Sleep, I get 1-3 hours a day so I feel you. I’ve suffered endlessly for what? To have rare moments where I can steal peace in between my pain? Meh, life sucks. It’s unfair and has no purpose. There’s endless examples of people worse than myself but extremely rare and yet infinitely better examples.
@@wrackable I'm sorry your having a rough time, do you pray, keep searching for the light!
Stuart Hameroff must be attended to much more by the scientists who have not made ANY headway in understanding consciousness, maintaining strict materialism. They are the ones closed and obstinate, fearful of the prevailing ideology (that gets all the funding). Very intelligent man, with highly credible research. One day he will be vindicated and honored.
Can a protozoa comprehend itself? It takes something much more complex to comprehend what it is and explain its workings. I'm just not sure we can explain consciousness. All we can do right now is make some comments on its happenings.
It is to me clearly related to life itself so I don't think rocks are conscious or weather patterns as he says, but a plant or a cell might be. They seem to have some kind of a will or intentionality.
Is consciousness self awareness? What is self awareness? It could even be argued that the most simple life forms have a very basic sense of that too. Maybe thats all consciousness is: self awareness.
But what is life? How does inanimate matter become self aware? I think that's the bigger, more fundamental question here.m
He is talking about awareness NOT sejf awareness . The consciouness is Occuring at Different level from mega hertz to Nano Hertz .. Conciousness of rock amd mammals are different
More info about micro-tubules please!
Maybe where consciousness resides ...being that, the brain could be a receiver so to speak, of consciousness
That idea comes from Tesla,but what Stuart Hammer off is saying is,because quantum vibrations have been found in brain microtubules and brain microtubules are information processors in the brain the brain is probably a quantum computer.
@@Sharperthanu1 Something to ponder, it's been said many times before , thee brain acting as quantum computer!
I imagine consciousness as a multi-scale quantum entangled structure. A coherence beyond our capacity to measure. We can’t see the forest, only trees.
Love this man, only he gets what it means
Nope.
it took me a looong time but eventually I understood so don't give up.
Your here to make memories and go threw human experiences your collecting everything for your after life .
Definitely interesting topic, I think cellular maybe overshooting the target. Now I would say something like , identify the conscience , unconscious and subconscious systems. Map that out and then it will undoubtedly give you a unique perspective.
I’m to stupid to read books but listening to people discuss these topics has put words to the weirdness I’ve experienced and felt.
Look into audio books, 📚
@@aphysique Good suggestion, my dyslexia makes reading very difficult.
A lot of verbiage, speculation, hypotheses, and some science thrown into the stew, but no closer to resolving the question of how awareness of awareness comes to be, and what the essential elements are for it to turn on. As long as civilization stays viable enough to support continuing scientific discovery I expect we will eventually create conscious machines. Whether that will be to our benefit or destroy us is a very open question.
That was ummm awesome!!
Could recoherence of energy in neurons to quantum fields be conscious moments (experience)?
`Consciousness is every(where)ness, expressed locally´, in: IPI Letters, Feb. 2024, downloadable
Does conscience exist independent of the body or does the body produce conscience?
the problem with explaining consciousness is that its paradoxical in the sense as that same system is trying to define itself.
Fun fact: William James, the "founder of American psychology" was the brother of Henry James, the author who wrote The Turn of the Screw, the Beast in the Jungle, The Altar of the Dead and many other superb stories.
A being understanding what does mean understanding, and despite all he does keep thingking is a physical process, only.
I’ve been in chronic pain and endlessly sick my whole life. Sleep, I get 1-3 hours a day so I feel you. I’ve suffered endlessly for what? To have rare moments where I can steal peace in between my pain? Meh, life sucks. It’s unfair and has no purpose. There’s endless examples of people worse than myself but extremely rare and yet infinitely can find people living better life’s. No clue what the point is. Why won’t people let me kill myself.
Fascinating, but not mentioning Francesco Varela and neurophenomenology is a serious omission!
Could pure consciousness be so much at the base of the individual's mind that it's almost like an external thing to him or her? Like as if it were the border between complex sensory perception and the physical world...
Agreed. Because is a Venus fly trap conscious when it catches flies? I don't reckon because it's senses aren't that complex. Maybe it's an evolutionary thing where we need to be fully conscious to survive
@@Skankhunt420.: I don't think the plant has exactly senses, it has some other type of physical process inside it. And without mind and proper senses, even if the plant has consciousness, as it were hehe, it would be a colorless, empty consciousness.
I would speculate that consciousness is like a plane of reality that is out there, and serves as a ground or basis for free will, whatever that is, and where ever that appears.
Pure consciousness is even outside our thoughts about consciousness...
@@mithrandir2006 consciousness is just experience, possibility and awareness. Every particle has some form of consciousness. Not as complex as us but it’s still conscious
@@Skankhunt420. I have a climbing vine plant and it's fascinating how it shoots into open space, hovers there for a day and then it does a uturn because there was nothing to hook on there. It doesn't exacly touch or sees anything, it must be detecting 'space' and learning. I joke that from all the plants the vines are the most risk taking ;-)
Interesting that he mentions mormonism because mormon metaphysics appears to me more reasonable than classic christian view. (Where Intelligence/Consciousness and matter are considered as fundamental and independent of god.)
Vedanta, modern science and cristianity. Thak knowing and consciousness of awareness that I AM . Is the key.
I think the core philosophy of vedant is about non dualism but how does Christianity fits in !?? Its completely pseudoscientific , I might have a wrong perception about the philosophy of crishtianity.
@@vspock4251 look into Nevile Godart, his explanation is great, in the bible God name is I am.
To me, consciousness is a mental process that repeats over and over again. It attempts to answer 2 questions 1) What is going on? 2) What should I do? I'm fairly sure consciousness exists in all living creatures.
My car does this when I turn on autopilot.
the more i listen to hmaeroff, penrose and anriban the more convinced i get. At the very least those phenomena/systems/functions they describe should be considered as correlates to consciousness and cognition.
Instead of quantum computing; how about wavechamber representations? Electrotonic wavechamber predicts an electrotinic pacemaker in paramecium!
Hummm,🤔 something to ponder
Maybe we're all just parts of a collective consciousness that is God experiencing reality in a way to not be aware of our previous state and what separates us from this collective consciousness is the brain which gives illusion that we're not all one and keeps us bound to physical limitations, remove the brain and the consciousness just goes back to its true state of oneness so brain/body is nothing but a vessel. Just think if you were an eternal being probably bored all by yourself this is exactly what you'd create, a reality where life can experience life. I think that also answers the question to the meaning of life. So the meaning of life is simply to experience life, sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one.
I think therefore I am.
Done deal thanks for coming out.
No, I think therefore I think.
I often don't think and I still am!
I enjoyed that, but where’s the experimental evidence for processing in microtubules? Re behaviorism: It’s almost a tenet of faith that 20th Century psychology was dominated by behaviorism, but was it really? You see a lot of behaviorist methodology and terminology in lab experiments, but not the theoretical framework. When I was in grad school in the 1970s not one of my classes or texts was from a behaviorist point of view, but we did use the behaviorist methodology is training animals and evaluating drug effects and brain stimulation in animals.
Look up experiments of Anirban Bandyopadhyay
The brain is an antenna for the eternal consciousness to have different experiences. We are the vessel. We are the eternal consciousness. We are the God?
2:34 Gamma Brain 🧠 Waves in EEG
40 Hz to 90 Hz and, above
- Anaesthesist & Prof. Stuart Hameroff
University of Arizona, Tucson
Does subjective awareness have anything to do with future time? Quantum fields moving into future time may have something to with subjective conscious awareness?
Consciousness and it's nature was first discussed in the Vedas and Upanishads, the ancient Hindu texts of ancient India, around 3000 BC (2500 years before the Buddha - who himself was an Indian prince - was born)
But I don't know why Upnishads are largely ignored by the west , first they paraglise and then they never care to give due credits to our philosophers.
@@vspock4251shiva is pure consciousness.. its a confirm news
In guitar world we have “hammer ons” and pull offs” but never hammeroffs! Paradoxical
Could energy provide the moments of experience for consciousness?
The hertz frequency of conscious moments can be associated with quantum waves / fields?
Recoherence of neuron energy into quantum field probabilities necessary for consciousness?
Consciousness is the epiphenomenon cause by the spirit and physical body interacting.
Why wonder around, while your answers on consciousness is all obvious on the statue of Apollo with the musical harp on the god's feet?
Is eeg and other tests measuring frequency of energy?
Does an anesthetic block something in the brain?
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
What happens to energy in microtubules?
Really enjoyed this. Super biased, but still very cool. That's not to say his ideas are wrong, but just wanted to point out that being dismissive of other research areas/paths doesn't make his better.
Hi mate, the assumption you use is that there is a you, and thus a thing having an experience. This is also fundamental to the question, so let's build it into the definitiin: "the level of consciousness that is active from a point of perception, is analogous to that point of perception's level of capacity to know itself. Boom. Please have a little think about that. It encompasses all potential points of perception, from a rock to a plant to a big to a dolphin to a human. How well can that point know itself? And this allows all human spectrum of conscious "levels" to be defined simply as the level of self knowledge. What's nice is that of course this cannot be subjectively measured or defined by an alternative point. It also allows very quickly for interpenetrating fields of consciousness across all of existence. And the mystic experience, where according to the sufis, he who knows himself, knows his lord. Anyway. Much appreciated.
I think consciousness is a thing, it is not a process. Most likely something of an electromagnetic map.
"Do you know something about anesthesia?" What a shame on the interviewer hahaha
Plumbing is it? :O ...so spatial movement is mandatory?
Excellent..... thanks 🙏
Study Advaita Vedanta!
He needs to stop interrupting when the guest is speaking
Robert asks Hameroff what his evidence is for thinking consciousness is a series of discrete moments and he replies, "Whitehead, Wm James, Buddhism...". What kind of answer is that? Maybe all those guys were wrong.
Maybe, but they were able to notice gaps in between discrete moments and even count them. He has it discussed in his papers and referenced. I think the theory came from that observation not the other way around. I don't know how else could this be demonstrated experimentally...I mean without some hardcore drugs. It's like we need a microscope for time :-)
@@mj-uc6wc We have quantum mechanics for describing reality on super-small scales, and while it shows .. experimentally.. that things like energy, motion and mass come in discrete packets, time, like space, presents itself ..experimentally.. as continuous on even the smallest measured scale.
@@workingTchr He makes a clear distinction in his paper to consciousness frames, he is discussing mental phenomena. People confuse the philosophy of quantum physics as a whole with quantum processes in microtubules. I see this over and over again.
@@mj-uc6wc "Consciousness frames". Hmm. Well if you've come far enough to appreciate the "hard problem", this is the kind of thing you might expect. OK, this hangs together. I didn't know. Thanks. I'll check it out.
@@mj-uc6wc Buddha et. al?
Q: What is Consciousness?
A: Wave Diffraction.
Albert
Where's part 1?
Consciousness experienced by time?
Maybe there is an observer in quantum fields?
Trying to explain observe the observer directly is impossible, it's like a telescope which was aware of itself trying to see itself.
Dr Stuart Hameroff is correct that consciousness is linked to frequency. Once your consciousness hits a high frequency you lose all interest in worldly affairs which isn't good if you want to live on earth. Hahaha.
If we go deep into this consciouness and just go on thinking about it, then person will go mad.Person will see the world as " world simply is not real , it is just a imagination".If this will be the case then how will person enjoy this world.
Yep, dissociation, dissolution and direalisation - all pathways to madness and suicide. It explains the Hindu culture lol
You have to understand *what is life* before you can even begin to understand any kind of brain function like consciousness.
As much as i respect anesthesiologists, i reject much of his views on life after death etc cos there's no evidence of a soul or an afterlife etc
❤️❤️❤️🧘🏻♀️❤️❤️❤️
All religion teaches that as humans we are soul and spirit in material bodies. I suggest that when the cells in human brains die, just as occurs with all other animals, the energy that once was in those brain cells, transfers to other forms of material life, and that as a species, we are not at all "special." It makes more sense to me that the universe, in one form or another, always existed ... no creator involved. That is what Stephen Hawking believed before he died.
I think that I’ve changed the P👁!
If nonlocal conscious and oobes are proven real (SOMEHOW, LOL) its gonna be so hype how could you not want that to be true it is so epic
hmm... a lot of introduction and abrupt speculation at the end.
And I think he confuses consciousness with self-awareness
A mere 29 seconds on an "eternal" subject -consciousness
ruclips.net/video/8fKUYLTr5D8/видео.html
He says it's awareness. Not self-awareness.
Regardless of the definition, OrchOR's (digital) theory relies on a superposition of the dimer. This was proven false in 2016. The monomer/dimer/MT behaves as an Mflux braiding set. Still subneural computation but confirming either FIT/GML or WLC.
Also there's a handedness breaking issue along the MT. Any data's superposition would be shorn apart at these points. Hameroff also uses a 'quantum correlation' for anesthetics. This too was falsified by Yang, Liu, Wang, et al 2018 (Heimburg's lipid crystallization theory for signalling confirmed using lasers).
He's dealt with all of that...
No
I thought this paramesium theory had been falsified ... Penrose accepted that it moved just through chemical mechanisms.
"it moved just through chemical mechanisms."
So do human beings or any other sentient being. Organisms cannot be reduced to mechanisms. The fundamental differences between one and the other are blatant and obvious.
@@Samsara_is_dukkha I know that humans are platonic archetypes that are projected into superpositions in the brain. But that doesn’t means I believe that to be true for paramediums as well.
With this being said, I am happy to know someone here that knows that consciousness is non-algorithmic. Nice to meet you.
@@SkyDarmos I was only responding to two notions: 1/ the notion of "chemical mechanisms" in organisms and 2/ the notion of falsification.
While "chemical mechanisms" are indeed observable in organisms, they cannot be used as defining processes since the same "mechanisms" are observable elsewhere. That being the case, we could equally claim that humans are no more conscious than test tubes since they react to the exact same chemical mechanisms from time to time.
As for the notion of falsification, it has been long understood (by Popper, Lakatos et al) that the methodology rests on conventionalism which is no more acceptable than positivism or verificationism as valid scientific methods.
So to reject "paramecium consciousness" on these bases is shaky to say the least. Nice to meet you too...
@@Samsara_is_dukkha I think the ground on which paramecium consciousness was rejected is that they don’t have a nervous system, and that is normally regarded as a precondition for consciousness. While Penrose knew that, he thought that the microtubuli in it could function as a nervous system and guide its behavior, but then later it was found that all the behavior can be accounted for by very simple mechanisms unrelated to microtubuli. The thing is that you would need to observe behavior that is a bit more complicated than push and pull. All you see with these creatures is that the bump into a wall, and then swim back automatically and then reproach from a slightly different angle. They don’t see so they try out all angles, in a purely mechanical fashion that can be perfectly simulated in a computer. It is the kind of behavior that one would also expect from a plant. So, until they have some more impressive behavior, I regard them as unconscious. That doesn’t mean that nothing non-computational is going on with them, but that they are not collapsing wavefunctions.
@@SkyDarmosThere are many assumptions in what you say that I will neither agree nor disagree with because, basically, the bottom line is "we don't know". For example, you say:
"I think the ground on which paramecium consciousness was rejected is that they don’t have a nervous system, and that is normally regarded as a precondition for consciousness."
You are correct of course but that statement rests basically on conventionalism. What is "normally regarded as a precondition for consciousness" is just a convention agreed upon by a bunch of self-important scientists who, in reality, have no clear definition of consciousness, no explanation for its existence and no solid theory for its emergence (if any) and/or functioning.
Once you have established such convention and accepted it as "true" as a basis for reasoning, all the following arguments are logically built on the same shaky foundation.
For the record, in 2007 the Lancet published an article (Titled: "Brain of a white-collar worker) about a 44 year old man leading a perfectly normal life although 50 to 75% of his brain was missing. Could such a case "falsify" the conventional claim that nervous systems are a precondition for consciousness? Perhaps... And it would entirely depend on a clear and unequivocal definition of consciousness that we don't currently have or agree upon.
"The thing is that you would need to observe behavior that is a bit more complicated than push and pull. All you see with these creatures is that the bump into a wall, and then swim back automatically and then reproach from a slightly different angle. They don’t see so they try out all angles, in a purely mechanical fashion that can be perfectly simulated in a computer."
Computer simulated behaviour, however simple or complex, does not confirm nor deny the possibility that the organism's objectively observed behaviour is accompanied by a subjective experience. The only way to know would be to ask the organism which would prove impossible in the case of plants, single-cell organisms or any organism other than humans and some rare examples of primates (eg.: Koko the gorilla) who are able to communicate their subjective experience through learned sign language.
"So, until they have some more impressive behavior, I regard them as unconscious."
Instead of jumping to such a hasty conclusion, I would tend to err on the side of caution and assume that all sentient beings have a level of consciousness albeit perhaps relatively low compared to ours and treat them with utmost respect.
Consciousness? How is the memory of the taste of steak get stored in a wet mush? Or the memory of a long dead friends face get stored . Forget about it:)
Wet mush can't store a friend's face therefore dualism?
Naval gazing again
Consciousness is a hypothetical 100 year cycle to form and develop an unforgettable eternity.
Hameroff is extremely compelling to listen too .....and I’m a skeptic - so I automatically dismiss most “WOO “ that I hear. However, I am aware that Hameroff is not completely WOO free.....hahah✌🏼
People who have undergone major surgery remember counting down from 10 or 100 and the next thing they knew was being on the recovery room five or more hours later. No dreams, no nightmares, no fears, no sense of self. When we die that consciousness is gone *forever.* 💕 ☮ 🌎 🌌
By the theory, when you are under anesthesia it blocks the proceses from occurring which is why you basicaly black out and wake up with no memory from when you were anesthetised
Consciousness create reality.
Prespective of quantum mechanics, we are a Quantum Universe which exists everywhere to which no law applies.
We are a form of desire.
Due to experience, people know who he is ?
But to experience is the work of the soul (consciousness).
________________________________
Thinking is a state of consciousness.
No law applies to thinking.
Thinking means, experiencing.work of consciousness.
We are being experienced from the prespective of consciousness.
Experience is not our identity.
Death is no such thing, meaningless event.
After death ? We will find overselves in the whole universe as consciousness.
Because, thinking is a state of consciousness.
At the moment we are experiencing through this body.
Creation has no meaning without experience.
Prespective of consciousness whatever is happening is happening in nothingnes.
Past present future running in nothingness.
Because, no law applies to consciousness.
The universe is experiencing itself.
Because, we are a Quantum Universe which exists everywhere to which no law applies.
Whatever happens in the world is at the will of humans.
Our prayer are fulfilled through God,this too is the thinking of humans.
Because, pelrayer is a form of think, state of consciousness.
Please recognize your thinking ability
Without the word "soul," there couldn't be any religion. All stories are based on what the soul is thinking, and what the soul is doing, and where the soul came from, and where the soul is going after death of the physical body. Fortunes have been made by theologians who taught that the soul is a gift from God, and that women must never have abortions, because abortions offend God's gift to humanity. Evolution of the soul is a huge seller in religion. It means that your soul is ever upgrading and will hopefully soon make the grade of God's "entire" approval of enlightenment and salvation … or … that in the afterlife something horrible could happen to your soul. If you remove the word "soul" from religion, you will not have anything but ground zero.
Nope.
Consciousness is self-similarity, and it happens whenever something models itself.
For example, we are living organisms that observe and model our environments. We are also part of the environment, so when we model the environment, we model ourselves.
That's it. So simple. No mysticism required.
Wow, looks like you solved it! My robot knows its location in our environment and details about its surroundings every time I ask it - I never knew it was conscious!
@@DrDave21Consciousness is not boolean. It varies based on the complexity of the modeling.
Oh to be paid for 38 years to do nothing but passing gas.... This man is a hero of science!
The Consciousness is GOD that is very similar to the human built AI and voice systems. This is how we're able to speak, hear, taste, smell, feel emotions, the senses of touch and observe visible images that look very real. Everything we experience is the consciousness processing the thoughts of our Creator whether they are temporary which we're experiencing in this generation or the eternal thoughts where the creation was programmed for the next generation.