North-Facing Solar Panels: The Surprising Truth You Need to Know!

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  • @evsmiles957
    @evsmiles957 5 дней назад +1

    Thanks Jon! I’ve really enjoyed your latest series of videos…. Also enjoying even more your collection of retro computing devices 😎

    • @JonathanTracey
      @JonathanTracey  5 дней назад

      thanks, more to come as been clearing out my attic, found some old gems

  • @MentalLentil-ev9jr
    @MentalLentil-ev9jr 7 дней назад +4

    Just a slight correction on the video. The Gulf Stream is not in danger of collapse, it is driven by the rotation of the Earth and the position of the continents. However, AMOC is in danger of collapse, this is the final bit on the end of the Gulf Stream and is driven by melting ice, Greenland ice is melting fast and this could be a real problem, driving Europe to freezing temperatures.

    • @JonathanTracey
      @JonathanTracey  7 дней назад

      Thanks for the correction, would be a disaster if it happened, UK can’t cope if we get 1 inch of snow ⛄️

    • @JH-fv1gq
      @JH-fv1gq 7 дней назад

      Told friends about this 15 years ago and they thought i was nuts 😅

  • @herrtomas6729
    @herrtomas6729 7 дней назад +1

    Totally agree with you.
    I have 4-panels NNE (~25'), 3-panels ESE (~115'), 4-panels SSW(~205') which have been in since the start of October this year.
    So far, the NNE have made about 25-30% of the output of the SSE. I expect this to improve over the whole year. As you say, the sun rises just before 4am (BST) and that gives a very worthwhile production on the front of the house. I am region-7E with 30' rooves
    At this time of year (December), I have very poor production as the sun goes that low that it is often masked by houses which are one street away!
    Overall, my philosophy is to fill your rooves with as much as possible (as panels are so cheap, and while you have scaffolding up and people working on site), and also to have battery capacity of about twice your average daily usage. With that, so far, I have been able to live off generation, or cheap nightly charging of my PW3. I will have an expansion unit when they become available.

    • @JonathanTracey
      @JonathanTracey  7 дней назад

      yep the scaffolding makes a retrofit expensive so as you say fill the roof while you can

    • @herrtomas6729
      @herrtomas6729 7 дней назад +1

      @@JonathanTracey My other (personal) opinion regarding the financing of solar is.....
      For every £1k you have earning interest in many places, you would 'earn' more by investing it on your roof than leaving it earning money...
      If you have to borrow to install solar, then it's not quite as straightforward, however there are some 0% APR out there ~ even though we know the interest is really built into the price.
      Also on the financials, we know that cost of energy will only ever go up in real terms....
      But, you make your own calculations....

    • @JonathanTracey
      @JonathanTracey  6 дней назад

      I absolutely agree, the ROI on solar is fantastic, even in a high interest account your going to earn peanuts.

  • @GerbenWulff
    @GerbenWulff 7 дней назад +1

    When we bought solar with our HOA, we decided to go for an east-west configuration on a flat roof, as it would give us the most kWh on our limited roof space, although a higher payback time. Our roof is facing South-south-west, so we have panels facing west-north-west. The difference with the east-south-east facing panels is only about 5%. This is in the Netherlands (similar conditions as in the UK).
    North facing panels do not only work in northern environments. I am currently 12 degrees from the equator and the sun always goes pretty straight overhead. In winter the sun is in the south and in summer in the north. Most people here just put their panels anywhere and don't seem to look at where the south is. If your roof angle is not too steep, then north facing panels can get direct sunlight in summer even in the UK.

    • @JonathanTracey
      @JonathanTracey  7 дней назад

      I suspect when I look at it next year we will be similar, as my south/south west array was offline for the best 45 days of the year,

    • @GerbenWulff
      @GerbenWulff 7 дней назад

      Note that it can be beneficial to have panels in different orientations when you oversize your panels relative to what your inverter can handle (oversizing, DC/AC ratio). Or in other words having to put your panels into different orientations allows you to oversize the panels relative to the inverter. If you have all your panels facing the same direction, you will see the output getting clipped, but that won't happen as often when your panels face different directions. Our HOA had a 17.5 kW Enphase inverter to handle the output of 20.9 kWp of panels. Clipping was a pretty rare sight. The inverter was recently,(after 8 years) replaced by the new model that can only provide 17 kW AC, but I have no summer data for that yet.

  • @timfontana2769
    @timfontana2769 8 дней назад +1

    When I had my solar fitted, every installer basically said 'don't bother putting any on the back' which is a North West facing. 8 panels on this, 9 panels on my south east facing roof.
    Rears have done 50% of what the fronts have over the past 6 months, which is impressive considering the sun sets behind the trees behind the house in the evening cutting an hour or so off the total generation time.

    • @JonathanTracey
      @JonathanTracey  8 дней назад +1

      Yep ours said the same, and turns out they were wrong.

  • @geoffreycoan
    @geoffreycoan 7 дней назад +1

    Another thing to think about is having different orientations of panels lengthens your solar generation day than if you just had panels on one side of the roof. Ours are East and West facing so we get a similarly long generation day in summer

    • @JonathanTracey
      @JonathanTracey  7 дней назад

      yep that’s how we get a 17 hour generation day in the night of summer

    • @geoffreycoan
      @geoffreycoan 7 дней назад +1

      @ And I forgot to mention, a longer generation day is better than a more peaky generation day with South facing panels. On a summer’s day even after the DNO turned the grid supply voltage down I can generate so much that I push the grid voltage up to the point that the inverters shutdown! Fortunately I have no DNO export limit but the voltage practically does limit my generation. Best mitigation is to leave some space in the batteries for the peak of the day so that diverts some of the solar generation.
      South facing panels would be even worse.

    • @JonathanTracey
      @JonathanTracey  7 дней назад

      Not seen that issue in our area, how do you know it’s happening, does the inverter stop with an error code?

    • @geoffreycoan
      @geoffreycoan 6 дней назад +1

      @ What I see is the grid voltage going up, above limit, sometimes as high as 270V, and the inverter power will shut right down. When the grid voltage then drops the inverter power then ramps back up again. Happens repeatedly on bright sunny days, mainly to my first GivEnergy 5kW inverter and sometimes to my FIT inverter as well. Don’t think it happens to my second GivEnergy inverter, the first one shuts off instead.
      I see an over-voltage error reported in the GivEnergy portal when it happens.
      Was seeing it almost every summer day and randomly at strange hours of the night so I reported a supply over-voltage to the DNO who monitored and agreed it was, and they turned the grid supply down a bit which reduced the frequency of this happening

    • @JonathanTracey
      @JonathanTracey  6 дней назад

      do you know if any other GivEnergy customers have the same issue or is it just in your area?

  • @TheRonskiman
    @TheRonskiman 8 дней назад +1

    If you go into the Solaredge dashboard you can generate some really nice graphs. Our SolarEdge array has 16 panels, split 8 and 8 facing different directions and you can clearly see the difference between the two, I can even see the boiler flue as it tracks across two panels.

    • @JonathanTracey
      @JonathanTracey  8 дней назад

      Yep I play with it quite often, I am still on the old dashboard and despite asking solaredge to update me they never do it

    • @TheRonskiman
      @TheRonskiman 7 дней назад +1

      @JonathanTracey There's a new dashboard? Not sure what one I'm on, haven't logged in for a while as my Victron system shows me what I need, but last time I logged in I'm sure it was the same it's always been.

    • @JonathanTracey
      @JonathanTracey  7 дней назад +1

      Yes this is the new solaredge platform, but it’s not rolled out to many www.solaredge.com/en/products/software-tools/monitoring-platform

  • @Glyn001
    @Glyn001 8 дней назад +1

    Never new you got two white dogs as well trying to figure out what breed they are have a good new year Jon 👍👍👍

    • @JonathanTracey
      @JonathanTracey  8 дней назад

      Our dogs are big but not that big. Yogi and Bear are Bernese mountain dogs

  • @robynrox
    @robynrox 7 дней назад +1

    I wish I had done that! Maybe I'll consider a retrofit in years to come, perhaps when my existing inverter comes to the end of its life; I might look to install batteries as well then. I've only had solar for about 2.5 years so far so I think that will be some time away.

    • @JonathanTracey
      @JonathanTracey  7 дней назад

      yeah i not sure it’s viable as a retrofit, doubt it would pay for itself inside a decade but if anyone’s planning a new install i would get it done as part not that

    • @robynrox
      @robynrox 7 дней назад

      As long as I'm not going to move, I'd even consider a longer payback; interest rates are high right now at around 5% on savings and I have to pay tax on anything that isn't in an ISA save for the first £1000 or so. Having said that, whichever way you go, it's a bit of a gamble. If electricity prices take a tumble, savings might have been the better way to go. I think at some point they will remove the green levy that applies to electricity and that will reduce the price a wee bit.
      I just worked out that my solar energy has so far cost me 61.6p per kWh to generate; I don't think that's bad for 2 years 5 months! Plus, to be fair, I could afford the £5674 the solar panels cost me out of pocket at the time I had them installed; I don't think I had much more than that in savings at the time. What I have already is doing well for me.

  • @dogmangreengrass736
    @dogmangreengrass736 8 дней назад +1

    what inverter and battery did you go with ? so 22 panels in total ? thanks 🎄🎄🎄🎄

    • @JonathanTracey
      @JonathanTracey  8 дней назад +1

      Our current configuration is a single 10kw solaredge inverter, with 3 x 9.7kw solaredge batteries. We also have an ecoflow micro inverter for the fence mounted panels, that has another 7kWh of batteries.

  • @steverobinson2389
    @steverobinson2389 7 дней назад +1

    I am thinking of solar panels and a battery. I am wondering what size battery I would need if we have a 24 hr power cut?

    • @JonathanTracey
      @JonathanTracey  6 дней назад +1

      Great question! Sizing a battery for a 24-hour power outage depends on several factors, including your energy needs, budget, and how much you're willing to adjust your habits during a blackout. Here’s a breakdown to help you decide:
      Understand Your Energy Needs:
      Start by estimating how much electricity you use in a day. Look at your energy bills for daily kWh usage or use an energy monitor to measure your key appliances.
      During a blackout, consider if you'll use energy only for essentials (e.g., fridge, freezer, some lights, and basic charging) or if you want to power luxuries like heating, hot water, or cooking appliances.
      Essentials vs. Luxury:
      For essentials only, many homes can manage with a smaller battery (5-10 kWh), which might power critical appliances for 24 hours if used sparingly.
      For a more "normal" experience during a blackout, including heating and cooking, you’ll likely need a larger battery (15-20+ kWh).
      Solar Panels as a Booster:
      If you have solar panels, they can significantly extend your battery's capacity during the day by recharging it (weather permitting). Even on cloudy days, solar can reduce the strain on your battery.
      Without solar, you'll rely solely on the battery’s stored energy, so sizing will be more critical.
      Balancing Cost vs. Capacity:
      Batteries are a big upfront investment. Larger batteries provide more backup capacity but cost more, so consider whether you want to cover rare blackouts entirely or just buy enough for short outages and basic needs.
      Think about your grid reliability too. If blackouts are rare, you might prioritize a smaller, cost-effective system.
      Practical Example:
      If you consume 10 kWh daily and only need essentials during an outage, a 10 kWh battery could suffice. But if you want comfort (e.g., running a heat pump or cooking), you might need closer to 20 kWh.
      Pairing a 5-10 kWh battery with 3-5 kW of solar panels could be a sweet spot for reducing costs and extending capacity.
      Plan for the Future:
      Many battery systems are modular, meaning you can start smaller and add more capacity later. This can spread out the cost and adapt to your needs over time.

    • @steverobinson2389
      @steverobinson2389 6 дней назад +1

      @ Hi Jonathan, Thank you for your advice and I think a 10 KWh battery and solar would be a best fit for me. It’s something I am seriously thinking about and in about 5 years I might install a Heat Pump as I have just had to swap my gas boiler due. To a sudden breakdown

    • @JonathanTracey
      @JonathanTracey  6 дней назад

      Just keep in mind whatever battery solution you choose, make sure the capacity is expandable without having to replace the inverter and associated cabling. This means when you get your Heat Pump in a few years you can just add a bit more capacity to the battery so the Heat Pump runs on cheap right energy all day.

  • @MrFlyby34
    @MrFlyby34 7 дней назад +1

    Thanks! Could you please tell me what the app is you’re using for tracking the sun? Cheers, Bert

    • @JonathanTracey
      @JonathanTracey  7 дней назад +1

      Hey Bert, yes of course it’s called sun on track www.sunontrack.app/en/ I think it’s about £7 to buy, but can’t be sure as it won’t show me the price after I already bought it

    • @MrFlyby34
      @MrFlyby34 6 дней назад

      @ thanks

  • @mrjwarosa
    @mrjwarosa 7 дней назад +1

    How much did your setup cost?

    • @JonathanTracey
      @JonathanTracey  7 дней назад

      If you were doing it today about 30k, but we have had solar for 15 years, as each part pays for itself we invest in expansion so it’s all now paid off

  • @simonpaine2347
    @simonpaine2347 7 дней назад +3

    I really do think that it's way past time to be so focused on how long it takes to get your money back. We have to be thinking about whether we as a species can afford not to do it! Climate change is real and happening faster than expected. The potential for reducing the world's reliance on fossil fuels is in our hands. Sure, not everyone can afford to install a system that doesn't make financial sense, but going without a few luxuries for a few years will easily be enough to swing the difference between the numbers. Having the latest phone, the newest car, the second or third holiday, or the unused gym membership will be a total waste of money if the Climate continues on its current path. Maybe think about paying back the planet, when you're factoring in the payback numbers.

    • @JonathanTracey
      @JonathanTracey  7 дней назад +1

      oh I fully agree with you however getting people to change behaviour is a very difficult thing to do. Without some form of incentive getting large numbers of people to do something different.

    • @simonpaine2347
      @simonpaine2347 7 дней назад +3

      Unfortunately you are of course right! Fortunately with various RUclips channels like yours and companies like Octopus the chances of changing those minds increasing all the time.
      Fingers crossed.

    • @JonathanTracey
      @JonathanTracey  7 дней назад +1

      it should be a requirement to get planning permission these days that every new house should be as self sufficient as possible

    • @kevindavis8442
      @kevindavis8442 7 дней назад

      To be fair, with less that 1% of global emmissions, what we do makes absolutley zero difference to any climate change, thats assuming you belive that Co2 is a bad thing for the environment, which it isnt, the best that can be offered is that its a bad thing for the human race, which is a bit of a selfish way to look at it, however thats another disussion, the reason for our system is two fold, one is financial, the second is we are getting ready for all the blackouts that are inevitable if Mad Milliband gets his way, no such thing as Net Zero

    • @kevindavis8442
      @kevindavis8442 7 дней назад

      @@JonathanTracey I'm a builder and thats not financially possibly, its a nice idea, but not viable, maybe in 10 years or so when prices come down, and "green" power can be installed without grants and preferencial tarrifs.

  • @kevindavis8442
    @kevindavis8442 7 дней назад +1

    Only had our panels on for the last couple of months, 12 on SSW roof and 12 on NNE roof, 6.3kWp on each roof, with a roof pitch of 23 degrees, exaclty the same panels, in the last 30 days the SSW roof has generated 82.81kWh with a max power of 3374W, and the NNE roof has generated 54.55kWh with a max power of 1360W, this is of course only the last 30 days, there has not been a great deal of sun about, so mostly indirect light on the panels, Yesterday was a sunny day though, and the SSW roof generated 6.7kWh, and the NNE roof generated 3.07kWh, so from our limited experience, the NNE roof generates about 50% of what the SSW roof generates, Will be interesting to see how it perfoms in the summer, I am expecting greater than 50% generation due to the low pitch of the roof which would mean more "direct" sunlight hitting the panels than a 45 degree roof for example.

    • @JonathanTracey
      @JonathanTracey  7 дней назад

      sounds about right for this time of year, as you get into the summer the north facing ones will start to generate more, and by june will be about 3/4 of what you will see from the south facing ones

    • @kevindavis8442
      @kevindavis8442 7 дней назад +1

      @@JonathanTracey We also have 32kWh battery (16kWh connected, and just building the second 16kWh battery as we speak), and an export agreement of 6.4kW, so hoping to export lots back to the grid when the weather improves. we exported 5kWh yesterday even in the middle of winter, so happy about that, just need to add the second battery, and then will start charging at cheap rate and export that every day too, our electric bill yesterday, import 11kWh at 0.085p (this charges the battery), and export 5kWh at 15p - 0.93p - 0.75p = 18pence to run the house for a day, before the system used to cost us nearly 3 quid a day minimum (not inclusing standing charges).

    • @JonathanTracey
      @JonathanTracey  7 дней назад

      Sounds good. What kind of batteries do you use? The export tariff really helps even when I’m not actively force people on the batteries I see about a 1/5 reduction in my bill during the winter. In the summer you can make some crazy money.

    • @kevindavis8442
      @kevindavis8442 7 дней назад +1

      @@JonathanTracey I wend for Seplos DIY batteries, they are on the DC side, Fogstar in Redditch sell them, i think its 1800 quid now for the 16kWh battery, although I bought one in black friday for 1400 quid, and one prior to that at 1600 quid as they had a special on, I'm pretty handy, so building batteries doesnt scare me away, also fitted the solar system myself rather than having an MCS installer fit it, the cost would have increased by minimum 10k, had to do all the G99 DNO stuff myself, and get onto the Octopus "self install" export tariff, same as usual export tariffs only have to jump through a few hoops to get accepted.

    • @kevindavis8442
      @kevindavis8442 7 дней назад +1

      @@JonathanTracey I use Seplos V4 DIY batteries, Fogstar in Redditch sell them, about 1800 quid each, (although i bought mine for 1400 quid and 1600 quid on special offers), I assemble them myself, they are on the DC side of my install, I also installed the whole solar system myself which saved minimum 10k on having an MCS installer do it, had to do the G99 DNO stuff myself, and then had to apply for export as a self installer with Octopus, had a few hoops to go though, but not too painful.

  • @RobRob-w4q
    @RobRob-w4q 7 дней назад +1

    Must have cost a packet that set up

    • @JonathanTracey
      @JonathanTracey  7 дней назад

      depends on your budget and timeframe. we installed it over a 15 years period, upgrading when the previous part had paid for itself

    • @RobRob-w4q
      @RobRob-w4q 7 дней назад

      Whether 15 years or 12 months it's a lot of Dough.

    • @kevindavis8442
      @kevindavis8442 7 дней назад

      @@RobRob-w4q We took an 8k bankloan out for our system, costs 144 quid a month over 5 years, because I self installed, and we have quite a big install with battery storage (12.6kWp solar), and a good export agreement at 6.4kW, I reckon payback will be approx 3 years as long as I make absolute the most of the system

    • @kevindavis8442
      @kevindavis8442 7 дней назад

      @@RobRob-w4q Just to add, i think we are going to be saving around 90 quid a month on electricity bills, so the loan is costing us 54 quid a month, and the rest of that will be paid by export (and all extra export will be paid to the bank to reduce that loan further. So at the moment, paying 144 quid to pay the bank loan, but have very little electricity costs now, pennies per day rather than pounds, and sometimes we get paid to take the electricity as we also swap between smart tariffs (Go and Agile), sometimes agile prices are negative

    • @JonathanTracey
      @JonathanTracey  7 дней назад +1

      @RobRob-w4q depends how you look at it, 50k is a lot to spend on a car that sits on your driveway depreciating. Solar and batteries pay you back over their lifetime and in most cases generate a profit. Let’s say it’s 30k over 15 years that’s 2k per year, that’s about 1 Starbucks Venti drink day