I don’t need these but I have to say that I appreciate the fact that you are willing to risk your money to give us archer’s things that will help us. THANK YOU
Just shim the cams so that if you have to move the rest it’s left. For a right handed bow. It will help clear your scope of the riser and give you more broadhead clearance on the shelf.
I've always been shocked that mathews didn't have all the top hats in a bag with each bow. Smaller increment top hats, I mean, why the hell not. The bows are not cheap.
Since that paper tear is so close to a bullet hole, it seems like it would be fixed with a few clicks of the rest. if youre going to move the rest during the broadhead/bareshaft process anyway, what's the big deal with not being at 'centershot' from the get go?
@@SPFZero I think it would be because if you had to move your rest before broadhead tuning you may run out of adjustment to get it tuned to your broadheads. If you start out at 0 it’ll give you the most adjustability
Hell yeah. I am trying to be more self sufficient in tuning my bow and will definitely be picking a set of these things up. Thanks for all the products you get made to fill the gaps. It is much appreciated.
While in Vegas I asked the Mathew’s people if they would make different top hat sizes because we kept running into this issue. They said “No. It’s not an issue.” So, I bought an extra set of top hats and shaved them down. Getting the tolerances exact was tricky. All because Mathew’s refused to make additional top hat sizes. Glad someone jumped on this. I will buy a set for sure!
I could have probably used a set of the custom top hats. But I spent a couple days mixing all the combinations of limb deflections and factory top hats but I nailed the correct combo to get the correct center shot, nock height, and tune to make the 29.5" Lift shoot. Honestly the custom top hat would have been the quick fix with out having to move every individual limb around to get it to shoot. Glad they allow you to make them, it will settle a ton of frustrated shooters out there.
So freaking awesome! I need these for my lift 29.5. I bought the Mathews top hat kit and found myself wishing that it came in thickness in between the ones that were provided. Had to move the rest a bit more than I liked.
*walks into shop buys $1400 bow* "Now sell me everything I need to make the bow work like it should from the factory" "Ah yes this bow company is the best in the industry"
When shooting in broadheads into my 365, I have had good luck not shooting center mass. I have put dots on periphery and the broadheads punch through, but it stops before it reaches the fletching. Saves the center of your target.
I got my Halon 32 to shoot a good hole after swapping around top hats but I’ve been struggling with my V3-31. Played around with the standard top hat kit and I finally had to tweak the rest to get it right. I think I’ll pick up a set of these and start over next spring after deer season.
I had the same issue with my RX8-Ultra. Ended up having to machine my own shims at work. Would be nice if the bow companies that use shims had more shim options for finer tuning.
Seems like I’m a lucky guy because I couldn’t care less about moving my rest. Not hunting, so as long as the arrow sticks in the target point forward, there is absolutely nothing to worry about.
I’d like to see a video dedicated to your preference of a sub 30” ata bow. I’ve seen through recent years that you have usually, I think, shot the shorter ata offerings from Mathews. It seems you shoot just fine at distance with a sub 30” and everyone is saying you gotta have 32”-35” for long shots.
Yo brother make insert for the UV arrows. I had two inserts pull out in a dice foam tgt. There isn’t a lot of purchase area for the glue and I love your 4mm titanium inserts.
But what do i do if i jus put custom strings on my Rx-1 because they were too old to reserve center serving, and my best shop within 2 hours put the strings on for 100 and didn’t even tie in damn nocking points between D loop, put it thru paper, or even serve in the peep, just over under knots above and below. What bow press would you recommend thats not insane, but safe and reliable? 😂
I'm new to tuning and have a basic question - why is it preferable to avoid moving the rest? My local shop always prefers to leave it as well. Is it because the correct position for the rest is determined by measurements rather than arrow flight, and everything else has to conform around that? I've heard it referred to as a "bandaid" solution to tuning, but don't know why.
Question from a nood. Lets say you don't move your top cam and instead you micro adjust your rest, your bow shoots good through paper, bare shafts hit where the fletched arrows do and the same for broadheads. What is the advantage to moving the cam vs bumping the rest a tiny amount. Assuming it's not a vane clearance issue.
Why is a small rest movement an issue? Not talking do all the tuning through the rest, but just the final little bit, why is moving the rest a bad thing?
Game changer for sure. When is Mathew’s going to offer easier cam lean tuning? I don’t own a press, and when I take my bow to my local dealer I have to tell them why I want to swap top hats. They “think” moving the rest 3/8 of an inch is acceptable.
Laughs in "forced to move the rest" and here I am still shooing my 82 Airborne where moving the rest is all i can do, other than syncing the cams. Tunability has come a long way.
Most shops don't have the time or patience that JJ has... they'd just move the rest at that point. Moving the rest a minmal couple clicks is not the end of the world, and what people are clearing up is their own torque, which isn't consistent. Ideally Mathews would improve their tuning systems... and I guess it's safe to say that's not happening given this product release. Maybe Hoyt is another area of opportunity.
what's wrong with moving your rest a hair or two left or right from 13/16. As long as you're shooting bullets through paper, your walkback tune should be pretty much spot on.
Literally just had this happen to me today. Got my limbs changed out bc of splintering. Shooting a nock left tear, changed top hats, moved to a right tear, moved the lower top hats and shifted back to left tear. Josh!! I need your help!! 😆
Man I love i dropped all of this money on this bow and I have to buy all of this extra shit just to tune it. Really feel like Mathews dropped the ball this year.
You don’t have to tune it 100 percent perfect like anal Dan. You can move the rest a little. Your shop is supposed to do this, if they don’t, demand they do. Don’t whine about a lazy shop not doing their job.
This is awesome by Josh. However, don't want to be that guy but I have a Alpha 30 and a Bear Escalate. I shoot all the time. No timing or tuning issues at all with either one. Come on Mathews. An independent guy had to develop top hats. Once again MFJJ, well done. Just buy a Hoyt. They changed everything on their bow too but with no issues. love the channel btw, keep killing it.
With the tear shown. I wouldn’t waste my time messing with the TH’s . I would just move my rest. It’s not rocket science. You don’t get a fine or anything if you move your rest for crying out loud. 😂 that’s why we have micro adjust rests. Not to mention the paper is only a reference/starting point. Too many people spend way too much time worrying about paper. Shoot your bow, shoot some groups, bareshaft tune, group tune, torque tune,, line tune check the paper after all that and see what you have.
Moving top hats affects how torque is applied to the system, therefore maximizing performance and tuning. For decades and decades we have been shimming cams, and using the rest for fine-tuning. Shimming (or top hats in this case) is the gold standard. While you can absolutely move the rest from side to side to achieve a tune, you will lose some forgiveness and performance. Two different ways to reach the same end-point, but one method has additional benefits.
When you're turning your boat just shoot a bare shaft through paper instead of shooting a fletched arrow get a bullet hole with a bare shaft through paper and there you fixed it
90% of the time on hunting bows u gotta move rest cpl clicks outta center anyway when broadhead tuning seems like waste of money unless ur shooting field points all the time my 29.5 is currently 1 click left of center but stacks broadheads on top field points so waste of money imo paper tune is to get close but still dont replace broadhead tuning
I have the 29.5 and everyone sayin move the rest i get it but on that bow its more than you would think started getting vane contact issues. Dont understand why people give shit if you dont want em dont buy em
@@rileymauro8172 Draw stoppers wearing out veeeery fast, serving separation on cables, not properly glued string stopper... And none is covered by bowtech, they just dont care.
How many Mathews owners have been walking around shooting just “off” because they can’t get their bow to tune. All while raving about how great the bow is?
Arrows rest still move left and right.. Just another marketing hype.Spott hogg did a test years ago and they found the most accurate bows they tested the string was inside center of grip.. rule of thumb use to be centershot 1/16 + or - from factory suggestion.. kinda of crazy just because string is running down center of grip its somehow more accurate of forgiving..
Can’t get your bow to tune? Get a bowtech. At least it’s easier to tune, though a little more noisy. Tuning arrows to a bow is probably better than tuning the bow to the arrows.
First mistake, if your on a “tuning group” on facebook then you really have know idea what your doing………hahahahaha. I imagine they are the same folks who ask how’s my form…….
13/16 isn’t even the middle of the riser idk why your stuck on the number. When you move the cam you move the aim string in turn your arrow is no longer directly behind the string. If your shims are right of center you’ll have to go inside 13/16 for your arrow to be pointing due north of the string. Obviously that’s the opposite for the other direction. The center of a Mathews riser is 3/4 technically. With all that said we’ve been needing these I’ve made a bunch of custom sizes myself many years
I don’t need these but I have to say that I appreciate the fact that you are willing to risk your money to give us archer’s things that will help us. THANK YOU
These guys have changed everything I know about archery, all while being so entertaining. Love it
😂😂😂😂😂 dan couldn’t even finish saying check out my holes and tell me what you think without cracking up
As an Archery nerd, this is super dope!
Just shim the cams so that if you have to move the rest it’s left. For a right handed bow. It will help clear your scope of the riser and give you more broadhead clearance on the shelf.
I've always been shocked that mathews didn't have all the top hats in a bag with each bow. Smaller increment top hats, I mean, why the hell not.
The bows are not cheap.
this is friggin awesome, MFJJ coming out with some amazing tools! wish I had an MFJJ close to Michigan.
Since that paper tear is so close to a bullet hole, it seems like it would be fixed with a few clicks of the rest. if youre going to move the rest during the broadhead/bareshaft process anyway, what's the big deal with not being at 'centershot' from the get go?
@@SPFZero I think it would be because if you had to move your rest before broadhead tuning you may run out of adjustment to get it tuned to your broadheads. If you start out at 0 it’ll give you the most adjustability
Yea I was wondering the same thing. Why do you care about moving the rest Dan?
Hell yeah. I am trying to be more self sufficient in tuning my bow and will definitely be picking a set of these things up. Thanks for all the products you get made to fill the gaps. It is much appreciated.
I’ve learned and continue to learn from these kind of real world videos. Keep it up!!
While in Vegas I asked the Mathew’s people if they would make different top hat sizes because we kept running into this issue. They said “No. It’s not an issue.” So, I bought an extra set of top hats and shaved them down. Getting the tolerances exact was tricky. All because Mathew’s refused to make additional top hat sizes. Glad someone jumped on this. I will buy a set for sure!
Definitely my guys, I can’t wait to get there and buy my bow. Hopefully soon coming from NY. Can’t wait to really meet you guys awesome!
I could have probably used a set of the custom top hats. But I spent a couple days mixing all the combinations of limb deflections and factory top hats but I nailed the correct combo to get the correct center shot, nock height, and tune to make the 29.5" Lift shoot. Honestly the custom top hat would have been the quick fix with out having to move every individual limb around to get it to shoot. Glad they allow you to make them, it will settle a ton of frustrated shooters out there.
thanks for this content. Ordered my tophat kit from Podium even before the video ended.
So freaking awesome! I need these for my lift 29.5. I bought the Mathews top hat kit and found myself wishing that it came in thickness in between the ones that were provided. Had to move the rest a bit more than I liked.
*walks into shop buys $1400 bow*
"Now sell me everything I need to make the bow work like it should from the factory"
"Ah yes this bow company is the best in the industry"
When shooting in broadheads into my 365, I have had good luck not shooting center mass. I have put dots on periphery and the broadheads punch through, but it stops before it reaches the fletching. Saves the center of your target.
Awesome , I needed this video. Gonna order top hat hat kit right now.
Man this is freaking awesome! Will be ordering some of those.
I got my Halon 32 to shoot a good hole after swapping around top hats but I’ve been struggling with my V3-31. Played around with the standard top hat kit and I finally had to tweak the rest to get it right. I think I’ll pick up a set of these and start over next spring after deer season.
Crazy Mathews would just be like “nawh we are good on the top hats!” Nice work making and offering them! They are going to be a hot ticket item!
I had the same issue with my RX8-Ultra. Ended up having to machine my own shims at work. Would be nice if the bow companies that use shims had more shim options for finer tuning.
Seems like I’m a lucky guy because I couldn’t care less about moving my rest. Not hunting, so as long as the arrow sticks in the target point forward, there is absolutely nothing to worry about.
Very nice to have this option. Great job.
Great lighting!
So is this just available for the lift? I was informed that the Atlas top hats are a different part number. ✌️
I just put the top hats from the top hat kit in my Atlas. They fit my 2016 halon 32 and my new to me Atlas.
This is awesome! Thank you!
Nice video! Good looking shop! Dan have you ever killed any elk?? Hahaha. My guy has bone stacked up like cord wood!! Hahaha
Will be diffently ordering a kit. Just in case. Just got my Lift and want to be prepared if needed.
Now PSE should make a 220 set with finer increments also.
Heading to spokane valley archery Saturday for that exact reason...
I should have kept this idea to myself I guess😂😂😂….but happy to see it exist!!! Good job!!
So do u move just the upper top hats or top and bottom
I wonder if they changed the top hats on the top and bottom cam or just the top ?Because thats all they showed in the video
I’d like to see a video dedicated to your preference of a sub 30” ata bow. I’ve seen through recent years that you have usually, I think, shot the shorter ata offerings from Mathews. It seems you shoot just fine at distance with a sub 30” and everyone is saying you gotta have 32”-35” for long shots.
🎩 interesting.
Wow nice job Josh
Bow "Rainman"...gotta love it!😁 When will the master kits be available? You can put me down for one.
THANK YOU MFJJ! Not being able to leave the rest a perfect center shot has always been my biggest gripe with the Mathew’s.
Can you do a video on that draw board on your bow press.
What is the issue moving your rest 1/16 ?
Yo brother make insert for the UV arrows. I had two inserts pull out in a dice foam tgt. There isn’t a lot of purchase area for the glue and I love your 4mm titanium inserts.
But what do i do if i jus put custom strings on my Rx-1 because they were too old to reserve center serving, and my best shop within 2 hours put the strings on for 100 and didn’t even tie in damn nocking points between D loop, put it thru paper, or even serve in the peep, just over under knots above and below. What bow press would you recommend thats not insane, but safe and reliable? 😂
Will this create any issues with the warranty since it is an aftermarket product, or did Mathews agree to it as approved product?
I'm new to tuning and have a basic question - why is it preferable to avoid moving the rest? My local shop always prefers to leave it as well. Is it because the correct position for the rest is determined by measurements rather than arrow flight, and everything else has to conform around that? I've heard it referred to as a "bandaid" solution to tuning, but don't know why.
Because moving the rest doesn’t sell parts…
Question from a nood. Lets say you don't move your top cam and instead you micro adjust your rest, your bow shoots good through paper, bare shafts hit where the fletched arrows do and the same for broadheads. What is the advantage to moving the cam vs bumping the rest a tiny amount. Assuming it's not a vane clearance issue.
I’m only doing top hat on my Vertix, VXR and Title 36. With a zeroed rest.
Why is a small rest movement an issue? Not talking do all the tuning through the rest, but just the final little bit, why is moving the rest a bad thing?
Game changer for sure. When is Mathew’s going to offer easier cam lean tuning? I don’t own a press, and when I take my bow to my local dealer I have to tell them why I want to swap top hats. They “think” moving the rest 3/8 of an inch is acceptable.
They would have to pay Darton for a new system so don’t hold your breath.
This is awesome!!!!!!! A huge problem solver!!
Edit, are there going to be any 6mm inserts? I want a 25 or 30 grain.
It's a wonder anyone buys a mathews bow. A pain to tune and worry about spring l splitting limbs.
Awesome!!
Here I am with a Mathews Z from ebay and I'm spot shooting to avoid piping anymore arrows.
Do the same with the Pse ez220!! I need an inbetween lol
Laughs in "forced to move the rest" and here I am still shooing my 82 Airborne where moving the rest is all i can do, other than syncing the cams. Tunability has come a long way.
Depends on the bow, not really so with Mathew’s, or Hoyt for that matter.
Let's go! 🏹
Old Mathews Z7’s will do it too…especially when they are cranked down at max poundage.
🤣🤣🤣 You guys must hve a lot of laughs off camera!
Most shops don't have the time or patience that JJ has... they'd just move the rest at that point. Moving the rest a minmal couple clicks is not the end of the world, and what people are clearing up is their own torque, which isn't consistent. Ideally Mathews would improve their tuning systems... and I guess it's safe to say that's not happening given this product release. Maybe Hoyt is another area of opportunity.
what's wrong with moving your rest a hair or two left or right from 13/16. As long as you're shooting bullets through paper, your walkback tune should be pretty much spot on.
Nothing wrong with moving the rest. That’s why they are adjustable.
Literally just had this happen to me today. Got my limbs changed out bc of splintering. Shooting a nock left tear, changed top hats, moved to a right tear, moved the lower top hats and shifted back to left tear. Josh!! I need your help!! 😆
Thank god
So you’re just changing the top hats on the top cam only? Please explain. Or recommend one of your videos to do the same
I just have to say if you have that much trouble tuning a bow you should probably dumpster it and get a Hoyt! lol
Josh, I need some for a Prima
Man I love i dropped all of this money on this bow and I have to buy all of this extra shit just to tune it. Really feel like Mathews dropped the ball this year.
You don’t have to tune it 100 percent perfect like anal Dan. You can move the rest a little. Your shop is supposed to do this, if they don’t, demand they do. Don’t whine about a lazy shop not doing their job.
sell it and buy a bowtech. you’ll never go back
I second this! Buy a bowtech
@@Huntfishtrap2121 lol well I just took the sr350 off the wall so I'm good to go now
@@colety04 Amen to that. I tuned my Core SS in around 7 minutes. No bs with this system at all.
mfjj out here just doing gods work for the archery industry. Guys' really grown on me.
My Lift33 just developed a limb delam splinter 😢😢 Probably 1000 shots on it but just went up to 75lbs 2 weeks ago from 70lbs. 30” draw
Lifetime warranty on the limbs! Real bummer that it happened to you right before start of season. Mathews will make it right tho
@@Huntfishtrap2121 that’s right! I’ve got a v3x33 for back up so it won’t mess up my season. 😁
@@tommurph4496 hey! Get a bowtech so you don’t have to worry about it next time lol
Can we just get your set since we obvious already bought mathews kit and just need the in between sets
Soooo what Im hearing is, MFJJ might know a thing or two?? Nice!
Will it void the Mathews warranty?
This is awesome by Josh. However, don't want to be that guy but I have a Alpha 30 and a Bear Escalate. I shoot all the time. No timing or tuning issues at all with either one. Come on Mathews. An independent guy had to develop top hats. Once again MFJJ, well done. Just buy a Hoyt. They changed everything on their bow too but with no issues. love the channel btw, keep killing it.
Are you kidding those shims are even worse.
With the tear shown.
I wouldn’t waste my time messing with the TH’s . I would just move my rest. It’s not rocket science. You don’t get a fine or anything if you move your rest for crying out loud. 😂 that’s why we have micro adjust rests. Not to mention the paper is only a reference/starting point. Too many people spend way too much time worrying about paper. Shoot your bow, shoot some groups, bareshaft tune, group tune, torque tune,, line tune check the paper after all that and see what you have.
Facts!
Moving top hats affects how torque is applied to the system, therefore maximizing performance and tuning. For decades and decades we have been shimming cams, and using the rest for fine-tuning. Shimming (or top hats in this case) is the gold standard. While you can absolutely move the rest from side to side to achieve a tune, you will lose some forgiveness and performance. Two different ways to reach the same end-point, but one method has additional benefits.
Im not seeing them up there
On Elkshape site currently.
Definitely off topic. Is that an Orange Carter Too Simple?
But yes, hoyt needs to refine their shims too.
What hoyt needs to do is make a quick-detatch system for the spacers.
ARE YOU SERIOUS RIGHT NOW!!!!
My buddy and I have Ben up and down on my lift 33” to tune in right.
MFJJ never fails to amaze me
Please make these for Hoyt
YOU'RE A WIZARD HARRY!!!!
Dear MFJJ… I love you
My guess is athens will come out with a new tuning system which Is why they didn't care about this.
When you're turning your boat just shoot a bare shaft through paper instead of shooting a fletched arrow get a bullet hole with a bare shaft through paper and there you fixed it
Mine was because my hand grip
90% of the time on hunting bows u gotta move rest cpl clicks outta center anyway when broadhead tuning seems like waste of money unless ur shooting field points all the time my 29.5 is currently 1 click left of center but stacks broadheads on top field points so waste of money imo paper tune is to get close but still dont replace broadhead tuning
I have the 29.5 and everyone sayin move the rest i get it but on that bow its more than you would think started getting vane contact issues. Dont understand why people give shit if you dont want em dont buy em
Mfjj fixing archery problems left and right let's go!!!!
Any major flaws with just shimming one cam only when you realise neighbouring tophats are not solving the issue?
Matthew’s must not of gave him his early bow or something
Or you can just shoot a bowtech and not have this problem lol
Aaaand have different problems ;)
@@JJ79_ haha like what?
@@rileymauro8172 Draw stoppers wearing out veeeery fast, serving separation on cables, not properly glued string stopper... And none is covered by bowtech, they just dont care.
Seems pretty lame that mathews didn't want to make more top hats for their customers... Oh well! Thanks podium archer!
Maybe they’re coming out with a new system this year?! Would kind of make sense.
No they believe in moving the rest first.
@@zhickman338 I don't believe this is true. Joel Maxfield actively suggests setting it at 13/16 and moving tophats from there.
@@mackstrate6235 I’m sure that’s true. He’s old school. Mark Hayes will tell you to move the rest.
How many Mathews owners have been walking around shooting just “off” because they can’t get their bow to tune. All while raving about how great the bow is?
They are fantastic bows. Never had an issue getting any of mine to tune but then again I know what I’m doing and don’t torque.
Arrows rest still move left and right.. Just another marketing hype.Spott hogg did a test years ago and they found the most accurate bows they tested the string was inside center of grip.. rule of thumb use to be centershot 1/16 + or - from factory suggestion.. kinda of crazy just because string is running down center of grip its somehow more accurate of forgiving..
@@derekbonser-xk7bz as a shop owner it happens a fair amount of times
The bow is a fantastic bow. A lot of shops don’t want to tune properly or can’t depending on how bad the bow is.
Mathew’s bows are a bit like old Harleys. Always fixin something on them
Lot of issues with the Lift
The clear answer here is buy a PSE Mach 30!
Or bowtech
PSE has a 3 year warranty. Mathews and Bowtech is lifetime. Never buying a PSE strictly on that alone.
@@Thedudeabides803that’s stupid i never knew that
@@Thedudeabides803 no way. That's just stupid
Still need shims and a press
We’ll know we know why they didn’t want to make new top hats
Can’t get your bow to tune? Get a bowtech. At least it’s easier to tune, though a little more noisy. Tuning arrows to a bow is probably better than tuning the bow to the arrows.
my carbon one is dead quiet
@@colety04 my boss and revolt xl are considerably more noisy than my z9 and v3x33
Good grief! Just move the rest a hair.
First mistake, if your on a “tuning group” on facebook then you really have know idea what your doing………hahahahaha. I imagine they are the same folks who ask how’s my form…….
13/16 isn’t even the middle of the riser idk why your stuck on the number. When you move the cam you move the aim string in turn your arrow is no longer directly behind the string.
If your shims are right of center you’ll have to go inside 13/16 for your arrow to be pointing due north of the string. Obviously that’s the opposite for the other direction.
The center of a Mathews riser is 3/4 technically. With all that said we’ve been needing these I’ve made a bunch of custom sizes myself many years
Hahahah you can’t get a mathews to tune then you don’t know what you’re doing. So many “archer” comments on here, majority are clueless.