Guitar Amps VS Cabs - Which Matters More?
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- Today we're taking a look at the age-old question: which affects your tone more, the head or the cab?
We'll compare three different amps, a Mesa Single Rectifier, an Orange Rocker 30, and a Marshall JCM2000 TSL60, and four cabs, a Vox 412 with Celestion Creambacks, a Mesa 412 with Celestion Vintage 30s, an Orange 412 with Vintage 30s, and a Marshall 412 with G12T-75s.
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70-20-10...Cabs are 70% of your tone and overall sound, Amps are 20% of your texture for your tone/sound, and finally your guitar/strings/pickups are your last tiny finishing touches
Yeah, for high gain sounds like in this video, I'd more or less agree with that! I think the amp and especially guitar go a little higher up in clean and light crunch sounds, but still probably the same order of importance!
@@BetterMixes yeah for sure!! I definitely agree on that. That's just my philosophy for aggressive tones (im record more of a hard rock/metal) The reason why I have it like that is not because I think the amp or guitar don't matter because they 100% do, but because with guitar Especially if a guitar is thicker sounding than others or not bright/too bright you can always pre-eq the sound before going to the amp, (Recording wise). Granted it's always best to get the source right from the very start but I'm just thinking money wise and best bang for buck from my experience at least.
Edit: also appreciate you taking the time to reply to my comment 👍
@@JedrekRyker Makes total sense! Yeah, I'd always recommend a great cab with great speakers (bonus points for multiple different great speakers!) as the first upgrade to make.
Liked the Vox cab the best with the Mesa head. That combo served the song well for my ears!
Me too! That's been my go-to for rhythm tones lately. That Vox cab is pure magic!
yes 100%!!
Finally
A demo using a tuned guitar and clear audio no clipping
Haha I know, right?! I'm glad you liked it.
You have a good handle on the scientific method. Excellent demonstration.
Thanks! I'm glad you liked it!
Great information here bud. It's also slightly cheaper to purchase and change out cabinets instead of heads. Thanks for the work done here
That's true! Thanks for watching!
even cheaper to change speaker, also microphones can make a masive difference
Yeah, but cabs take up several times more space than amp heads.
That's true, although a couple 2x12 cabs don't take up TOO much space. OR you get a 412 with 4 different speakers to get more mileage out of a single cab!
Wow quite eye opening, demonstrated very well too, thanks for making this!
I'm glad I could help! Thanks for watching!
That Mesa amp with any cab was mad buttery. I could "feel" it more so than the Orange and Marshall, which sucks, because I loooove Orange 😩 I may have to look for a Mesa amp....
Great vid by the way, just got my first custom guitar, and was looking for amps, and never knew about the "stacks," with an amp head and speaker. Always thought they looked cool, and you def cleared things up for me. I had to sub for that.
I do love that Mesa! I think all three amp brands absolutely have their place, and I use them all while recording, but yeah, I hear ya, I definitely have always loved the Mesa sound! But anyway, thanks for watching, and I'm glad you found the video helpful!
Funnily enough I really liked all the cab combos with the mesa amp, apart from the mesa cab lol. I think the mesa amp/vox cab is probably my favourite
Yeah, that mesa/vox combo is one of my favorites!
Great video !!! Cabinets make the biggest difference in your guitar sound. Amps of coarse do too but the cabinets more...Ive been researching this topic lately because I just switched over from playing combo amps to head type amps and cabinets.
Thanks so much! I'm glad you liked it. Yeah, like you said, everything definitely makes a difference, but man, the amount of change you get from a cabinet/speaker upgrade is massive!
Your experiment here confirms what I have always known about overall tone. All the elements, guitar and pickups, amp, cabinets, speakers all contribute to overall tone. Oh and how the guitarist plays as well, is part of the whole overall tone picture. I thought the vox cabinet with the cream backs sounded best, but hard to tell 100% unless you're in the room. Ah the room has a lot to do with sound as well
Absolutley! And yeah, how the guitarist plays it is a huge part of it!
so true
The speakers plays a huge role.
Absolutely! I'm still planning on making a video at some point comparing the exact same speaker in multiple different cabs to show how much of the sound is the speaker vs how much is the cab, but yeah, a great sounding speaker is huge!
I really liked the mesa head + vox cab !
It's definitely a great sounding combination!
That Mesa distortion is beautiful almost "clean".. the orange didn't sound like it broke up as much and the Marshall, was the reverb too low? Was lacking that sustain. Loved that initial sound from the mesa
"Clean" sounding distortion is exactly how I describe the Mesa as well! There's just somehting special about that amp!
super helpful thank you, mind blown.
P.s did you record this during an earthquake haha the camera was shaky the whole time and in and out of focus, no impact on the audio, still a good vid thanks
Haha no earthquake, I just had my camera on the wrong setting so the auto-focus was freaking out. I'm glad you liked the video though!
Man I'm British but I do love that mesa cab sound with the Marshall amp
Yeah, Mesa definitely knows what they're doing when it comes to cabs! In the US at least, that's kinda become "the" cab for recording rock music.
You get a good cab with a decent head and you are golden
Absolutely!
that's what I realized with two Fender combo amps I have. They both have the same amp modeling technology, but they sound completely different. Just checked: The one that sounds good has some Celestions in it. The one that sounds like crap has some generic Fender speakers. Says, "Musical Instrument Loudspeaker". Going to be changing those out.
Oh yeah, speaker upgrades are often one of the best things you can do with a combo amp! You can get a ton of cool sounds that'll compliment the one you already like by trying out different speakers!
What recording equipment do you utilize. Thanks! The Vox hands down.
This was an sm57 going into an Audient ASP 800. Oh, and the DI signal was through a Radial JDI into the ASP 800.
And yeah, I love that Vox! It's something special for sure.
Great video! Would be nice to see the microphone placement on each cabinet
Thanks! I'm glad you liked it! I thought about putting up a photo of the mic on each cab, but after taking the first photo, I felt like you couldn't really tell too much from it since you can't actually see the speaker itself, but they were all pretty close to where the cone and cap meet towards the inside of the cab. They were all within probably three quarters of an inch or so of that position.
1:20 Hi! You are the second person I hear saying that the cab is what makes most pf the difference. The first was Glenn (long hair man)
Hi! Yup, definitely makes a bigger difference! Unlike Glenn, however, I still think the amp itself can make a significant difference. I don't remember if I made that point clear or not in this video, but it's just less. The differences between amps also becomes larger the less gain you use. It might be very subtle with a super high gain tone, but fairly obvious with a crunch tone or edge of breakup sound.
Great video. Much appreciated. Sure, I'd love to have a Vox, a Jazz Chorus, an Orange, and a Mesa, but like most guitarists I simply don't have the space for all of those cabs. Nor can I afford them, so I guess cabsim IRs will have to work for me.
The same thing applies with IRs though! Finding some good IRs will go a LONG way in getting you great guitar tones.
But as far as real cabs, even if you have one cab, if it's a 2x12 or 4x12, you can try putting different speakers in it to get more tonal options. Like my Vox cab currently has a Greenback, a Creamback, a Vintage 30, and a Fane F30 to give me 4 different options with one cab.
Thanks so much for this video man. I'm honestly just trying to understand this amp/cab options in my cheap multieffects to get the best out of it but I just see a bunch of names and things that make no sense to me. This has pushed me in the right direction to start :)
That's great! I'm so glad my video was able to help!
Which exact creambacks in the VOX?
very good presentation btw!!
This was the g12m 65
And thank you! I really appreciate it!
I liked that marshall in the first portion of the video.
It's a killer amp!
This should get more view.. Very helpful, thank you so much!
Thanks so much! I'm glad you found it helpful!
it probably would if you re recorded it , that thing the camera is doing is very distracting
At first I thought I was going to like the Vox cab the most, and then I heard the Marshall Cab, and IMMEDIATELY I knew it won, hands down
It doesn't get much more rock n roll than Marshall!
Is nobody going to address the camera having a seizure?
Hahaha I think one other person mentioned it so far! I had just bought a new lens, and turns out the autofocus doesn't work so well on it which I didn't realize until I was editing this video.
Haha Cooper doesn’t have a steady hand man. It’s hard without thumbs.
Shhh science is happening
Ok I thought it was my shrooms kicking in😂
Just FYI ... Mesa got their idea from British Burman Amplifiers who were the first to do the cascading gain stages thing. So even Mesa isn't quite American ... it's still a bit British.
Interesting! I don't think I've ever heard of them. I'll have to look them up. But I also feel like that's saying Marshall is a bit American since they were initially inspired by Fender Bassman designs, and I definitely would not call Marshall American at all!
@@BetterMixes Certainly true of Marshall, there is an influence from Fender - though not of Vox, Hiwatt, Orange, Selmer, HH Electronic and countless other British Amps ...
Was saving money for amp now for a cab
Good move!
Mesa through the Vox was nice.
off topic, that room is beautiful
Thanks so much!
Wonderful presentation. Thank you!
Thanks so much! I'm glad you liked it!
I couldn't tell all that much difference between the amps but then again I damn sure ain't a pro. The cabs all clearly stood apart and it comes down to the ol' adage, name your poison...
I have a sonic cab with 4 celestions g12s-50 for $90 I didn't think twice and I enjoy it but I know why people don't swap cabs often have you seen how much room they take up 😂
Haha yeah, that's true!
Such an amazing video
Just subscribed
Thanks so much! I'm glad you liked it!
Great video! I've learned a lot, thnx!
Glad it was helpful!
What song where you playing for the test? Great vid
I'm glad you liked the video! The song was just something I wrote for this video.
@@BetterMixes it’s a great song, keep up the great content!
Mesa, orange, marshall
very informative and must have taken some effort - thanks man! 👍
No problem! I'm happy to help. Thanks for watching!
Crazy question, what if...
You put all 3 amps together in a mix, with 1 to the left, one on the right and 1 in the middle? All with the same performance
Only one way to find out...
Speaker + open back/closed back
Great video!
Thanks so much! Glad you liked it!
Amp controls dynamics… So depending on your style… Tone is not everything (i.e. SRV playing through a marshall 🤔)
Oh absolutley! I THINK I mentioned (or I at least meant to!) in the video that this is really just when comparing amps of a similar style (in this case high gain amps).
What about certain amps with certain cabinets. For example, would the orange sound different then the Mesa does utilizing specific cabinets. Do certain cabinets benefit from specific amps?
In my experience, the character of the amp or cab doesn't really change with different combinations, but that's not to say that there's nothing to the pairing of the two. For instance, Mesa Rectifier heads have a TON of low end, so they might not work as well with a cab that also has a ton of low end. Or I recently got a Vox head that's fairly bright, so it's often easier to dial in a great sound when using a cab that's not also super bright.
They sound soooo close in a mix with the same cab
Yeah, I remember being shocked how close they were when I first tested this!
No doubt, it must be Mesa.
u mentioned the Marshall sounding darker could've just been because of the settings u had.... and then u mentioned that we could've just added more presence or treble.... I'm wondering.... did u mean that we could've made the sound less dark by adding more presence or treble?
Yup, exactly! I had just dialled in something I thought sounded cool on each amp as opposed to trying to get them to sound as close as possible, so by cranking up the treble or presence, I could have gotten the Marshall a little closer EQ wise. It would still have the more aggressive sounding character to it, but there was definitely room left in the EQ to make it brighter.
We like the dark sound of the Marshall, lol,but I actually throught the mesa cabinet and head sounded the best with my ears and this recording,,,nice approach and the cabinet can be the biggest change in tone sometimes 👍
@@frankorobinson1540 My favorites are constantly changing, but the Mesa through the Mesa has been my go to for rhythm guitars lately!
Could you make a video of what guitar cab and head is. I am trying to find examples on youtube but nothing I am so confused.
So the head is the actual amp. It's got all the tone controls as well as the actual power amplifier. The cab is the box that holds the speakers. And a combo amp would be both of those things together in a single box. I hope that helps!
This is very helpful thanks man. I was looking at an EVH cabinet for 500 bucks versus the Friedman for 900. I was wondering if it’s worth the extra money.
That's a tough call! They're both solid cabs, and I don't think either is necessarily better than the other, just different. I only have a tiny bit of experience with both of those, but I liked them both! I seem to remember the EVH sounding more "modern" for lack of a better term, maybe a little thicker, a little more scooped, and the Freidman being brighter, a bit leaner, maybe more in your face. But like I said, I liked them both!
Check out the video by Jim Lill called "Tested: where does the tone come from in a speaker cab?" Very interesting.
I think I saw that one! I remember it being pretty good. I'll have to check it out again though, cause I can't remember all the conclusions he came to in that video.
Can you get a head to strong for a cabinet? Or the other way around head mm to weak or small to power a big 4x4 stack maybe? Was looking at Boss Katanas
Strong head + weak cab = bad
Weak head + strong cab = not ideal but nothing will be damaged
Yup, a high powered head into a low power cab can blow speakers if you crank it up too much, but it's no problem at all the other way around.
Got a question, if i have a Vox AV60 with an 4ohms 50W output, the vox on the video (vox v412) will be ok? I mean, i will not destroy my av60 amp? 😂
Great video, explanation and performance! 👍 What is the name of the song?
Thanks so much! I'm glad you liked the video! And the music here is actually just something I put together real quick for this video, so it doesn't have a name!
@@BetterMixes But it's sounds really nice, so put that in a song. :)
@@Manuel_Manzotti Haha thanks! Listening back, it is pretty cool! So I just might have to do that.
@@BetterMixes Absolutely! 🎵🔥
Huh, Vox cab was best solo but Marshall was best in the mix...
Weird.
Yeah, that's the tricky thing! What sounds best in solo isn't always best in the mix.
Amazing video and so well done! Thank you
Thanks so much! Glad you enjoyed it!
i dont get it all i have amplifier. what is this thing about head and speaker? its like combo amp but seperate so u can have diff speakers according to occasions? would be nice to explain sorry that im stupid
So yeah, you can either get a combo amp which has both the actual amplifier and the speaker all in one box, or you can get a head, which is the actual amp, and a cab, which has the speakers. The same principals from this video apply to a combo amp as well, that the speaker and the design of the enclosure will have an extremely large impact on the sound. Obviously, you can't change the enclosure on a combo amp (at least not easily), but swapping out the speaker(s) can be a great way to find new sounds!
@@BetterMixes ahhh thanjs a lot
@@Mo-rd1ow No problem! Happy to help!
Mesa cab all the way
It's a classic for a reason!
So microphones and IRs make all amps sound the same. An Orange amp sounds nothing like a Dual Rec in person out of the same cab. You have the amps right there. There's no way you couldn't tell them apart in a blindfold test.
That's definitely not the point I was trying to make. I might not have made it clear enough in the video (that's something I've specifically tried to get better about in my videos in the 4 or so years since I made this one), but the point I was trying to make was just that the cab/speaker, which is oftentimes overlooked/not prioritized, often makes a bigger difference in tone than the amp itself (when comparing similar styles of amps, as in like all high gain amps in this example. Obviously a Fender Deluxe Reverb isn't going to sound anything like a Mesa Rectifier regardless of cab and speaker).
The amp totally makes a difference too! That's why I own something like...10 different heads maybe? I just see a lot of people with a bunch of amazing heads and then a single cheap cab with terrible speakers.
Like I said, I probably didn't do a great job of communicating that in the video, but I just wanted people to stop underestimating the importance of good cabs and speakers!
@@BetterMixes I get that and understand they play a huge part. My problem is half of your comment section is making it seem like the amps don't matter at all and that they all essentially "sound the same" under a microphone using the same cab. There is a similar discussion going on in a FB group and it's exhausting. *You* and I understand that they sound different in person but people that don't have multiple amps and cabs, maybe for their own dignity, are literally saying that the amp almost doesn't matter at all. I have 9 amps and 4 cabs myself so I know better. I think people are watching too much Glenn Fricker.
Yeah, I feel that. Between the Glenn Fricker videos where he goes on about guitars all sounding the same and some other guy who's name I can't remember making videos about guitars and microphones and whatever else not making a difference (while missing some major points of those arguments), I've been kinda thinking lately that I HOPE in this video and in a couple more recent ones where I talked about mic preamps being less important than a lot of the other aspects of the signal chain, that I made it clear that I was saying that these things make LESS of a difference than people often think, and not that it makes NO difference, cause this trend of "nothing matters, everything sounds the same" is really bumming me out. I've been wanting to make a video on this topic, but I haven't figured out how I want to approach it yet.
Bit challenging to understand
What parts aren't you understanding, I'd be happy to try to explain it better, or maybe even make a follow up video or something.
are cabs and enclosures the same?
Probably? I don't know if I've heard people refer to it as an enclosure before, but I assume that would refer to a cab!
Hard to tell with just power chords
I've got more guitar amp/cab/speaker related videos coming soon that'll have some nice clean bits, crunchy power chords, and heavier riffage to cover a little more ground!
what does "bottom end" mean?
Low end or bass frequencies
Dude.. guys.. I have a really crazy question... Do amp heads have speakers in them? Like .. bro, I would be really embarrassed to spend $1500 on an amp head and it be worthless bc I can't afford anything to plug it into
They make tube combo amps w/ speakers included. An amp head like in this vid will require a cabinet to pair.
Sorry for the slow response, but yeah, what AbsenseOfEnvy said. Heads don't have speakers in them, so you need an amp AND a cab OR a combo amp which does have both.
The speaker is the biggest factor in what makes a tone because it’s a filter.
I'm definitely tone deaf lol they sound the same with super slight discrepancies
Nvm that was the amps. The cabs are clearly different
@@freetime2freeminds Haha yup! That sounds about right.
I am trying to learn about the whole amp situation, maybe someone can help me here. So these are high watt amps and cabs right? But can you still do clean tones on them? Or was it a choice of „style“ to only play distortion heavy stuff?
They're all...medium wattage maybe? The Orange is 30, the Mesa is 50, and the Marshall is 60. But yes, all three can do clean, crunch, and high gain. I just chose to play with distortion in this example.
@@BetterMixes okay makes sense, the reason why I am asking in such a weird way was because I have read that the higher watt amps ~50+ are supposed to be somewhat useless for home usage because they would be too loud. I am just trying to finde some combination that would work for home use and doesn’t cost 3k to buy
@@tigerfisch157 There is a little bit of truth in that, but it's mostly a myth (the needing a low wattage amp for home thing). The majority of modern amps have a master volume and are designed to get anything from clean to distorted sounds at pretty much any volume. Like all the amps in this video can sound great at fairly low volumes. Where that myth comes from is with older amps from back in the day, the only way to get more distortion is to turn up the volume. So if you wanted a crunch sound, it' be pretty darn loud, and if you wanted a higher gain sound, it'd be INSANELY loud. I have a few amps from the 60s and 70s, and they sound awesome, but I had to buy a seperate power attenuator so I could use them at not-insane volumes. Most new amps won't have this problem (with a few exceptions, like the Marshall Origin for example.
What kind of style do you play/what kind of sound do you like? I might be able to recommend a good amp for a reasonable price.
@@BetterMixes that would be awesome, thank you. Great tip, the Marshall origin was basically top of my list right now.
Thank you for your help, it’s all kind of confusing if you don’t have a teacher.
Sound wise I like to listen and play neo soul guitar a good example would be shotaro miyamoto but I like harder stuff from vast to nirvana too. So it’s kind of all over the place just not really really crazy metal I guess.
@@BetterMixes and it’s crazy that this misconception is so big on the internet. I got this info from multiple sources so I obviously believed it. Thank you for clarifying this.
No clean sound? Man, you had one job
Haha my bad! That's one of MANY things I'd change if I was making this video today. But it's a pretty similar story with clean tones, maybe to s slightly lesser extent, but still, swapping speakers will make a bigger change to the tone.
What the heck is a cab?
Short for speaker cabinet, the part of an amp that holds the speakers.
You don't see any cab in this video
Haha yeah, I probably should have grabbed some B-roll, but I promise they're there 😆
the bass in the mix is so weird
Out of curiosity, what about it sounds weird to you? Listening back 2+ years after making this video, it's definitely not the greatest bass tone ever, but it sounds like a bass to me 🤷♂️ It was PROBABLY just a P Bass into the Darkglass plugin with some compression afterward.
too much talking blah blah blah
Just skip ahead to the playing 🤷
They all sound indistinguishable. Tbh . People need to stop worrying about amps n shit. It's hardly even a difference.
But in reality, they're not indistinguishable. This is poor people logic.