Can you 3D print a functional lathe belt from TPU?
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- What are the limits of TPU? It seems nearly indestructible, so let's find out!
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TPU Is an incredible material for certain applications, like bumpers, clamp pads, and lathe belts.... what? Lathe Belts? Well maybe yes or maybe no, that's what this video aims to find out.
The more I use TPU the more I want to use it, and now that they have High Flow TPU it isn't as much of a pain to wait for those prints to finish. The TPU I've been using is limited to 3.6mm³/s, which for a fast printer, is quite slow. Luckily we don't lose all of the print time since we still have fast moves and accelerations.
Using TPU for a lathe belt was just an idea that I had to try and save money and I thought it would be interesting to see if the properties of TPU lines up with what was necessary for a lathe belt.
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Aren't the "grip" grooves in the TPU belt reducing the area of contact on the pulleys ? I wonder how it would fare on the plain side.
Yeah, I've had the same thought.
Yes they are. The concept is the same as that used on vise grip jaws, or even our own hands, we have better grip because of the texture than if we had a smooth surface because those raised areas will flex a little bit to act more 'rubbery'. I don't think I did a good enough job on my attempt, they'd need to be far closer together to mimic those types of textures, rather than a pattern that is more for looks like what I actually did. by adding the curve to the interior surface in the model, it made texturing the surface far harder, I kind of hurt myself there.
@@NeedItMakeItBut then again, NASCAR uses flat tires (not treaded) for racing for better grip to racetrack surface. It would be interesting to see if that makes a difference (may also allow the belt stick crayon to maybe make more of a difference).
@@NeedItMakeIt Thanks for the reply (and the videoS) ... I'm not sure a printer can print those "fingerprints" sized pattern in TPU but it would be another cool video/experiment ;)
@@Emurga No problem, I'm having some fun trying to come up with new ideas and solving problems as we go.
I'd just need to be able to 3d scan my fingers with the macro lens and then do an extrusion. I think for that to work, they'd need to be able to deform to match the surface so they would be pretty thin and taller extrusions. I guess that's where rubber does the best, because it is able to deform to match the surface so well, and with the reinforced core, it'll prevent it from stretching.
Hey there, I'm not sure the pattern gives more grip, because as you reduce the surface, you also reduce the friction. My two cents: just glue a piece of real rubber on the top of the pads if you want extra grip, but you'll add also extra lateral flex.
I've seen these kind of fails a couple times. First, leather is hard to beat. Second, you know TPU is softer. Double the thickness to make it stiffer / harder. Third, putting a texture on the inside just gives you less contact area making it stiffer. Tread in tires decreases grip except in the rain where it gives passages to let water out. Fourthly, the belt should be flat so the center where it contacts the crown is tightest. You are in effect reducing self-centering tendency by profiling the cross section to match. Stick with it. Forget about matching the leather dimensionally. I think you can make it work reasonably if thicker.
Cool investigation! I think there are a lot of potential avenues to improve this, but also all a lot of work. TPU is a really cool material.
Also pneumatique is a material thats both flexible and has traction if you are interested. BUT people have complained about the terrible smell it leaves.
Great video. Yeah, TPU is slippy slippy. TPE MIGHT work better, but there are more appropriate materials out there like rubber-ish materials (forget the name) - but they're impossible to print because of the friction on th enozzle.
I think, as its more flexible, making it thicker would be better, and for the grip, if you make the edges of the belt have a kind of loop to hold an inner laminate in place. then a bike inner tube making contact with the centre of the pulleys might stick better. Also placing small suction shaped bubbles in the surface might work, you would have vacuum pressure being applied that way theoretically reducing friction to almost nothing, it might be harder to dial in the bubble sizes so it doesn't stick too hard.
How can I find that sticky crayon? I'm not sure what terms to use in Google. Or where do you find it in person?
I'll have to dig on that one, I have some very old ones and they're unmarked, they came with my lathe, let me see if I can find some info on it.
What about doing it for a pants belt though? 🤔 Also wondering how other TPU hardnesses might affect it
This is cool. I wonder if you could put some other material like TPE on the inside of the belt to give it better grip and some elastic return. I was able to design and print a timing belt for stepper motors using TPU and it is really strong. It wasn't as high a load as your application, however. I also made straps for safety goggles I designed and they feel comfortable. I might try making a clothing belt too. I suppose belt designs of any kind should be used I low stress applications. Such a versatile and useful material. Awesome applications and great rigor on your testing!
A flat belt would have way more grip. I dont think it would work with more grip though.
The cost of replacement belts is really high, but I also want to be able to drive the high speed properly, so I guess I need to either come up with a better belt that doesn't stretch, or buy a good belt and be done with it.
Thanks for the files! Also the first time finding your channel! Subscribed! Do you have a link for the magnets you used?
What if you made the inside surface of the belt "fuzzy"?
I'm wondering if you could add a layer of rubber cement or something to one side and if that wasn't good enough even embed something in the rubber cement. I'm not really sure how to tackle the stretch issue although maybe you could print it with tunnels in it that you could run wire through.
You should try SBS (not ABS!) filament that is rubbery like but it's hard to find that material for sale
I can honestly say that I've never heard of it. I'll have a look to see what I can find, thanks for that!
Great video
Thank you kindly!
Perhaps a 30% glass filled TPU from 3dxtech would be better the other one i would try for 3rd version would be PCTPE from Taulman3d
Apply fuzzy skin on the inside for better grip?
Isn't Nylon pretty flexible? I have yet to use quality Nylon.
You could always try tpe or a foaming tpu.
Great video 👍 👍
tpu is amazing material i love it
Make a pulley cover from another material?
If u realy want to have strong belt, u can even add metal strings inside, so it is just like what is some 3d printers use, and it is didnt strach untill the metal broke inside the belt
That makes sense, similar to rebar in concrete. I wonder if another plastic which isn't as prone to stretching would also work and still allow the flexibility?
@@NeedItMakeIt I didnt realy think so, most plastics can snap after a period of bending, maybe a gcode is the solution, where u can start the print and inside is some groows where u can put a thin bowden like in bicycle break, and then continue print, also if the printer can fuse the bowden cable in the printed groows when continued, so this way nothing is lose inside the printed part no left over groows. I think with your method of makeing the belt and this bowden thing shoud work, and try apply some honey to get a bit more grip😉
buy this guy a new lathe!
2:26 well those treads are making things worse, treads only improve traction on wet and non uniform surfaces, in this situation you want smooth to maximize surface area.
I would not attempt this from thermoplastic, as tough as it is the slippage will bring about melt temps in almost no time.
random seam position would have probably been better
Why not make it as thick as the original one
Mainly because it is not cheap, but also it's not as flexible and I was afraid it would be too stiff. That would help to prevent stretch though so it might be worth another look.
what about adding fuzzy skin
Fuzzy skin?
I printed a mallet out of Shore 95A TPU, it makes an excellent soft hammer. Also, door stop wedges
Quality content, one of the best contents on all of youtube in regard to 3D printing.
Best compliment a person could give! Thanks for that. I have lots more to come!
@@NeedItMakeIt Can´t wait. You have great ideas and great topics. No blabla I really enjoy your videos.
@@sierraecho884 I think you'll enjoy the next one, it should be ready on Wednesday this coming week.
@@NeedItMakeIt I sure will do =)
The vise soft jaws will be very useful as well as the clamp pads. Can’t wait to start playing with TPU.
If you want something slightly different for the pattern, let me know, it's easy to adjust for you!
On the belt you could add a thin layer of silicone caulking on the grip-side ...
or melt in some gritty material with an iron (perhaps fine sand or iron powder)?.
PS: Second idea may not be optimal, if you don't wan't your pulley wheels to be slowly sanded away :D
The silicone idea is a good one, I wonder if it would bond to TPU.
The grit idea is a neat one, that's something I hadn't thought of, very clever.
I've since made up a replacement leather belt, but it's only a temporary fix, the leather I had in my shop stretches more than it should and I had to laminate it from 4 pieces with scarf joints, which works, but probably isn't ideal.
Wan't SuperVinlin
@@NeedItMakeIt You can use a softer TPU and on the outside of the belt, use a clothes iron to laminate some kind of long, high-tensile fibers into the TPU oriented in the direction the tension is applied. Think about that reinforced packing tape with all the strands. With a flat belt and a smooth inside, you'll get excellent traction on those pulleys, just like racing slicks on a nice smooth drag strip. Applying the stickant should make that even better. Make sure if you laminate any kind of fibers into the belt that you put some wax paper or parchment between it and your clothes iron so you don't end up with a molten thermoplastic mess all over the iron.
I printed a v-belts for a home sewing machine. I printed a PLA ramp then printed TPU to get V. Tried cog grooves and various infill density. While belts worked, they were not as good as reinforced urethane belts. I used tach and motor input power monitor to evaluate. I convert vintage machines to battery power, for my wife to use at sewing retreats. Efficiency is important. Timing belts are efficient.
Very nice, I've never heard of this being done before! If you can think it, someone has probably too! Nice work. I have restored 2 vintage Singer several sewing machines in my day, they were treadle operated and had the small leather cord for the drive belt, which work incredibly well.
I'd like to find some different materials with better grip, but that only solves one of the issues, the stretch over time makes it a no-go, we'd need to laminate something inside, a nylon core maybe along the neutral axis of two layers of the rubbery material. I could also try PETG laminated to TPU, adhesive would be something I'd have to do some research on. I think I could have done better on the patterning to make it mimic the grip we'd get with our fingerprints.
That's pretty cool about the sewing retreats, I had no idea these things existed.
I'll see if I can find a timing belt that matches my belt size and take the headstock apart.
I've already made a new leather belt, but the alligator clips were so worn that they fell apart when I was trying to reuse them.
@@NeedItMakeIt I saw a comment on another video about printing belts, saying they would print a thin TPU timing belt or v-belt, then wrap it with fishing line and glue it in place. The fishing line would be one of those newer types that use dyneema which you can get pretty cheap, or a roll of kite string that is also dyneema or kevlar. Zero stretch over time supposedly, as this is how commercial timing belts are reinforced too.
I make TPU drive belts for my sewing machine as well. I would prefer leather, but It's hard to find belts for 60 year old discontinued machines.
try varioshore tpu! it foams up and is quite abit nmore gippy!
I'm on my first roll of TPU, and the stuff is amazing... I love how it just gets off the glass without leaving a trace.
Consider replacing the pulleys with 3D-printed parts. You can give them a texture to improve the grip. Or - if the slip isn't necessary - just use timing belts.
I was thinking about that, I could replace the cone pulleys with printed toothed pulleys similar to a GT2 belt. You'd probably want a clutch since the lathe is intended to slip, and with the teeth, it wouldn't do that any longer. I'd really like to replace some of the noisy straight cut gears with 3d printed helical gears for a smoother operation as well. I also have some worn bronze nuts on the machine, I wonder with some of the newer materials if we could print some functional replacement parts for the lathe. It might not work long-term, but it could get you buy for a little while.
Timing belts is probably the simplest solution, and I'll just need to bite the bullet and take the headstock apart. Which will probably give me a chance to paint some of the parts.
Or make the surfaces of the pulley wheels TPU so you can have more grip and less slip?
To address the stretch, you’ve inspired me to try embedding continuous carbon fibres into the belt by pausing it every few layers during printing. Probably not worth the effort unless it’s a small belt.
Still thinking about how to improve the grip… Might need to research grippy things that bong well to TPU that be sprayed or painted on.
Nylon
Do you think I should print it or buy some and laminate some rubber to it?
In my experience using TPU, it really is a wonderful material when you know how to print it, but using it as a belt has proven unrealistic. If it was reinforced with some fiber material, maybe plant fibers, then it might help with the stretch, but the stretch in my experiences the completely insurmountable compromise. If you had a printer of sufficient depth, you could print the belt laying down on a textured surface, so that it would provide a rough side to the belt. Ultimately though, it's the stretch of the material, unless you can deal with that, I don't think you'd be able to use it for this application
Did you need to design different tolerances/dimensions for TPU? In my limited experience printing the same model in TPU vs PLA resulted in loose fits.
What about using a bicycle inner tube cut into a solid strip , get one that will stretch to fit keeping it one piece. Make a wood oval that stretches the tube to size. Then print a carbon nylon (or something else)hoop . Then use patch adhesive sand the tube on the outside same as if patching then glue the 3D printed hoop over tge rubber and stretch it out until tight. And put wood strips and clamp the long sides until dry. The rubber should nske the 3D print grip and the print should prevent the rubber from deforming keeping contact with pulleys.
Fuzzy skin for a rough surface texture might help.
You put the grid on the inside. The only traction is those thin lines.
Maybe fix your belt tracking XD
so what software do you use as a 3d design program to make your parts ?
I mainly use Fusion 360, I have to pay for mine, but I've heard that for personal use there is still a free version available.
My granny used dark molasses to prevent belt and pulley slippage at her farm.
Wow, that's old school, but heck it seems like it might actually work. When we lived on the farm, we were using molasses for everything... When we were cropping the lamb's tails, we had molasses for that, but I don't remember what it was there for, I seem to remember us putting it on the cauterized wound. That seems strange, but I was pretty young and probably not paying close enough attention.
Wow, this is interesting. Your suggesting made me think of beeswax. Maybe that'll be a grippier alternative to the other wax.
I believe we used some sort of hard *bitumen* on flat (textile-based, I guess, 15-20 cm wide?) belt.
If motor (7-8 kW) was switched too soon from star to triangle, it either slipped to max speed or gave slightly frightening "magnetic" sound, but almost never burnt slow fuses ;)
Thanks, the X1 Carbon seems to print TPU very well. I am interested in your experience printing TPU with the Q1 Pro.
Comparing both printers, they seem to produce about the same quality in TPU, both aren't exceptional at printing TPU by any means, and that may come down to my own inexperience with it.
I wonder if you could fight against the tpu fatiguing by sewing kevlar thread along the length of it. That's sometimes used in straps to make them stronger.
I think so, if you can add any sort of material, even a layer of a dissimilar material, it could probably work a lot better. Sadly the somewhat slick surface just doesn't want to drive those pulleys well. We'd need to laminate something else to the belt, and at that point, we're exceeding the cost to buy a ready-made belt.
🙏
TPU is not a substitute for rubber, it has non of rubbers grippy properties. I have seennso many failed attempts at 3d printed RC tires with no grip
Is there a material that would be similar to rubber that's 3d printable?
@NeedItMakeIt @MyTechFun does a lot of testing on different materials, I don't think he has found anything. I think TPU is more useful for it's toughness and its flexibility. So it's great for joint components, shock absorbtion and so on.
8.00 TPU is urethane which is used in bushings so it’s good slip n slid… maybe a Eva foam TPU hydros might work.
Use the TPU as the bet and you the foam type material as the bearing or friction surface. Basically replace the wax or tacky stuff you applied to the white with foam. As you 3d printing you can lock the two together.
You could pause and place wite in too.
Rubberise the inside of the printer belt someone. Some soution out of a can would be great
A thicker belt cross section would reduce the elasticity. Since it wasn't heating up, you can probably go a lot thicker without an issue. As for grip, the wax may work well with porous materials like leather, and less so with smooth, impermeable surfaces like TPU. Experimenting with different tack agents might be interesting. Also, with a thicker cross section you could tighten the belt down more. Too much tightening could be detrimental for the pulley bearings, though.
For sure, I think slightly thicker would be ideal and also if there is a way to integrate some other materials like a nylon or some type of fabric to prevent the stretch as well. The pattern I added was not good enough, it needed to be far tighter to be effective as well. Much to learn! Ideally we'd have a clutch setup and then have toothed pulleys instead, that would address most of the issues here. There is a possibility that I could 3d print an entire new set of stepped pulleys from Nylon-GF. It would be a neat and challenging project.
By the way, I did order that new 3D printer from your link so you should get something from them. I also joined your patreon last week because I like how you come across when doing these videos. Had to give away my 2 - Creality Ender 3 V2 printers (1 to my son, 1 to my grandson) to justify getting the new one!! Thanks for the videos and information. If I have any questions about the new printer I'll be getting in touch with you!! LOL!
Nice and thanks for that!
I'm working on a cool mod for the Q1 right now and enjoying using it very much. I plan on getting some higher temp nylon within the next few days to start to experiment with some more functional type parts.
I still have my 2 ender 3 V2s! I still haven't found a good home for them like you, maybe I can take them apart and make something useful from them.
Many many more videos to come! I'm shooting for 2/week, sometimes I only hit one depending on how things progress, sometimes things just don't go my way.
I wonder if a lower shore hardness would have any effect on grip? I've only seen 95a in person.
I think that it would help, on the other hand it might want to stretch more. I'd need to find a way to laminate different materials together.
My eSun clear tpu is has so much grip that i made leg caps for my ikea table
Cool, I've never tried that brand, I'll have a look, thanks!
Did you have to put manually the TPU in the X1C? I tried to do it but it doesn't have an automatic filling like the AMS or the K1.
Yes, they don't recommend using TPU in the AMS, it may not make it through the auto-feeding system. I haven't tried it myself, and one way around it might be to position your AMS in a spot in relation with your printer that gives a smoother path for the filament to travel through.
You have an AMS for the K1?
@@NeedItMakeIt No sorry... I feed directly. I dream to have an AMS but for the K1. There's the chamaleon but you need soldering skills that I haven't.