The Dreamcast Controller is a Hidden Masterpiece
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- The Dreamcast controller is divisive, I know. What's funny is nobody around the turn of the century had anything but great things to say about it.
I explain how people have false memories about how games controlled in the end of the 5th generation (Playstation 1, Nintendo 64, Sega Saturn) and beginning of the 6th generation (Dreamcast, PS2, GameCube, Xbox), and how some of the perceived issues with the controller were actually features.
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NOTES: Do not roll your controller wire as shown in the video. I had seen this as an additional "feature", but can damage the wires inside the cable.
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#dreamcast #controller #sega
![Secrets of the Dreamcast VMU | Punching Weight [SSFF]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Rwp9Mqwu8zs/mqdefault.jpg)
Welcome to DC 101 with Professor Tynology. Class, this week's assignment is to share this video (or any of my videos) with someone you know or online. Students that fail to do so will receive a failing grade and a PS1 digital controller for the remainder of the term.
@@droneadventures4147 who are you talking to?
Nope needed 6 face buttons for fighters too like many Sega systems
Let's be 100% honest about this.. They Copied Nintendo's ULTRA 64 design and altered it a bit.
That is what happened.
The analog stick never suffered from stick drift amazing how nobody else jumped on that tech until recently
And it had less of a dead zone!
because it can give them a reason to buy a controller again.
@@日本語学科者 Yep, and that's infuriating.
It sucks that people didn’t realized how incredible the Sega Dreamcast was a hidden masterpiece❤️💙🦔
🥲🥲🥲
What are you talking about? The console literally survived until 2007 in Japan. It's the fact SEGA didn't do deals with first-party developers to secure games for it. They literally didn't care.
Dude I love the Dreamcast controller. It's so iconic and weird - very similar to the N64 in that it was an experimental 90s controller on the cusp of 3D gaming before we really knew what to do with it... Retrobit is supposedly coming out with a modern blutooth varient that has six face buttons. I bugged them a few days ago on Twitter about it and they said they are indeed still working on it. Lookin forward to that for sure.
I'd just love to get a modern arcade stick! I love that there's new controllers and accessories coming out for this console over 20 years later
There Is another version currently made which has 6 face buttons
Based on 3do m2 controller
@@Zontar82 yeah the expensive $150 fighting one but lack analog stick
Dreamcast Classic should just be a mobile app collection, with the option of buying a controller where your phone slots in, and lets you expand to old and new VMU functions ran on that controller. Reverse the hardwares.
And include a lower slot between the handles, large enough ot hold a tablet, so it can portray landscape mode sticking out of the top, for about 1/3 of the tablet's real estate. The center of a tablet can peek thourgh the phone slot and show the VMU screen, where normally a phone in vertical position would fit both the VMU and the TV screen.
Interesting fact about the dreamcast. Your right in saying down the line they would’ve made a duel analog controller. The devs of some third party controllers were saying in a discord server that the dreamcast bios actually does have native support embedded for duel analog controllers. So they were definitely going to do soemthing down the line
Yeah the I/O bus has the ability for additional analog controls. I have a video in pre-production right now about just that!
The Dreamcast does have the dual stick controllers for Virtual On: Oratorio Tangram.
@@segamonthose aren't analog sticks though
@@socksfelloffHow are they not analog?
@@segamon they are just microswitches like an arcade stick
The Dreamcast controller always fit perfectly in my hand, all the buttons have a great feel and "press", the Saturns buttons being the only ones superior to me, its one big drawback definetly being the lack of a 6 button layout, certain fighters, most importantly Street Fighter suffer. The lack of a 2nd analog stick sucks obviously, but is Immaculate for Crazy Taxi, I blew my own mind playing it again recently, years later with far better hand to eye coordination and its an absolute blast, handles exactly as it should. Also, if you have great twitch reflexes, throw on Street Fighter: 3rd Strike, and go ham on that D-pad, it feels fantastic, regardless what anyone says about it but I feel totally in control at that games blistering pace. VMU always cool. Controller looks str8 dope. 8.9/10
Good perspective. I kind of fell off of 2D fighters between the Genesis and the Dreamcast (I got a PS1 instead of Saturn), so the switch from 6 to 4 wasn’t as dramatic for me
Wow! What an opening! Well done man. The first games I remember playing with dual analogue stick controls were the Medal of Honor games on the PS1. At least I think I remember them having those controls. But you're right, games back then didn't have standardized controls. Halo definitely made it mainstream. I remember it very clearly. Not even the Metroid Prime games had dual analogue controls.
The roundness of the analogue stick on the Dreamcast controller isn't terrible. Every controller back then had sticks that are rounded like that, except for the Xbox controller. Even the Dualshock 3's sticks are crazy rounded on the top along with the triggers. I had a hard time with those triggers.
There's no denying how awesome the Dreamcast and the controller look. Some of the very best designs ever. I had a friend who had one, but I was never allowed to play it. His older siblings were always hogging it. I still have yet to play one. But appreciate what it is. Another amazing video!
Haha thank you my dude! Yeah around 2002 was when those first and third-person games with modern dual stick support (move w/ left, look w/ right) really started to normalize. I forgot that the Remaster added modern controls to Metroid Prime! 🤯
I actually don't really mind the roundness of the stick, it's more so when those little nubs rub off over time it gets slick, but these definitely last longer than rubber sticks.
I gotta get you to play a DC man, and it has to be on original hardware with the VMU and controller. Nothing else like it!
Can't wait for your next video! 🔥
Loved the controller and was always surprised when I heard this story about it being unanimously frowned upon?!
Not being an FPS player it might be why I didn't feel or understand the need for it but for jet set radio, phantasy star, crazy taxi and RPG in general it was a controller I loved
(Especially liked my grip and my hands being "tucked" inside the controller)
All FPS games at the time had bad controls (even on PS1/PS2 with dual analog sticks), so it didn't even really matter at the time. Same with 3D platformers. It's this weird "look back" thing that people do (that was what I was trying to explain in the video haha). I loved the controller and how it worked with all the games.
it always amuses me how people cant remember that back in the day every game had its own control scheme, the same game in a different region could even have swapped out buttons lol
I realized I was guilty of it before going back and playing PS1/PS2 and even Game Cube games that still didn't have free look on the right analog stick. Blows my mind.
Yeah, who's actually saying this? Are people's memories this bad?
the sega design docs were posted and showed that the maple spec supported dual analog from day one. the dc button states had bytes reserved for an extra analog or dpad axis mapping. with a blueretro controller adapter you can play unreal or quake with dual analog.
I love that even after researching for dozens of hours, I still learn more in the comments. This is absolutely fascinating!
They had a mode for an unreleased controller?
@@filipmartinez1162 he’s referencing the controller port (the data bus specifically) had enough extra channels to support for a second analog stick if needed. It just never happened, but could have
Love the DC controller. was just playing Crazy Taxi and Tony Hawk last week. I never was a "fanboy" feel every console and company offers something but I miss Sega and while I got my cousins old genesis years ago the Dreamcast was my first pay with my own money sega console as a Nintendo kid and Sony teen and Dreamcast to this day is probably the last pure console I enjoyed gaming on . Nice video. Great controller.
Very similar story to myself, I bounced between Nintendo, Sega, and Sony but the Dreamcast was the first console I picked up on my own. I cherished that thing. Thanks for the comment!
Sega is my favorite in the console market. Kids these days don't get to experience how good they were. I hope they come back.
I have a Sega Saturn 3D pad too. Dreamcast was just a smart version of it. Great design.
I'd love to pick one up, I remember thinking it looked soooo cool when it first came out. Ultimately glad I held out for the Dreamcast overall though, haha
The Dreamcast controller is a piece of art and was super comfortable. I don't think that the cable from the bottom is so easy to defend (even back then) but all the other choices (other than the lack of a second analogue) were spot on. The start button is one of if not the most satisfying start buttons ever. And just the mere idea of the vmu, having a second screen on your controller, felt like living in the future.
Couldn’t have said it better myself (although I don’t mind the cable placement and did try to defend it haha)
@@TynologyGaming Thanks for the video and the reply btw. I don't mind the cable placement nor did I mind it back then either, but I do understand why people criticize it.
@@TynologyGamingI love the cable from the bottom, it matches with this design. This controller is something unique.
I love how my thumb is pointing straight up on the analog stick unlike every other controller besides n64 and Wii nunchuck
Same! I struggle when the stick is down to the right
The Dreamcast controller was always my favorite controller of that generation, it was so cool and confy, also the VMU was a cool idea at the time. Really great video!
Thank you! Couldn’t agree more!
Being someone who actually experienced the Dreamcast during its time, the Controller was not an issue at all. I loved the analogue triggers for racing games in particular. And yes I used to play First Person Shooters like Quake III Arena with it just fine. I am also someone who prefers camera adjustments with the triggers for 3D Platforming because I like to keep my right thumb on the jump button at all times. I always felt that the Xbox controller was an evolution of what SEGA did with the Dreamcast Controller - and those remain my favorite controllers for most gaming genres to this day.
Triggers for racing games was revolutionary for sure!
I agree with all of this... It never got tiresome and was precise enough to play Quake III.
Quake 3 played great with the controller.
I wish I’d lived in the era of the Dreamcast. I technically did, as I was born in 1994, but I’d lived an exclusively Nintendo life until 2006. When I got a Dreamcast and 17 games for it in 2007, I’d realized that Sega was still very much the 2nd best game developer in the game industry. It’s just such a shame that after Unleashed and Generations that Sega downsized and started making lower-budget efforts like Sonic Lost World, Sonic Forces, and Sonic Frontiers. I sincerely wish I was around for when the Dreamcast first launched and got to see games like SA1/SA2, Jet Set Radio, Crazy Taxy/CT2, and Space Channel 5 when they were all new to the world.
It was such a wild time. I was 16, and it felt like there were amazing, unique games coming out left and right in a span of like 2 years, then poof, it was gone
I think the controller is really cool, but when I use this controller it makes my wrists hurt over time 😅 I used a retrofighters controller when I played through Skies of Arcadia.
I’ve heard the RetroFighters pad is great
Here's why I think the Dreamcast controller is just fine for FPS of that time. My very first console FPS was Turok Dinosaur Hunter on N64 and its default control scheme was the analog stick (on the left) for aiming and turning, and the yellow C buttons (on the right) for movement, forward, back, and strafing. By the time Goldeneye came out, I was so used to Turok's control scheme that I always changed it to match Turok. A Dreamcast game like Unreal Tournament can EASILY be played the same way as Turok. What the problem is that nowadays and since the original Halo, FPSs have movement on the left stick and aiming on the right. It requires effort to go back to the way things were before. Even I who played Turok from start to finish so many times find it difficult to go back, but it can be done. Don't give the Dreamcast grief. It was great at the time.
Exactly, we adapted to what was available, and devs were trying and testing different control schemes. It took a few years and Dreamcast got caught in the middle of it all
@@TynologyGaming I do think the grips are angled just a little uncomfortably. It feels like holding a steering wheel at 8 and 4. But I am amazed that all four consoles that generation, from Dreamcast to Gamecube, all had analog L and R triggers, and all of them used different technology, with the Dreamcast’s being the most interesting with the use of magnets.
@@arturomail It was the Wild West back then 😆
7:06 @tynologygaming The Sega Saturn 3D pad was the first controller with analog triggers, not the Dreamcast controller. Which makes sense since the Saturn 3D pad is basically a proto version of the design that was fleshed out on the Dreamcast.
I knowwwww I forgot to remove that when I was talking about the 3D pad hahaha 🫣 I guess I could get by that it was the first "standard" controller. I was waiting for that to get pointed out haha
You touched on, but glossed over the best part. The tech behind the analog stick and trigger buttons. 25 years on and these controllers are still working. Controllers have actually moved backwards due to drift. Never used to be a problem. And analog triggers? Brilliant!
Yeah I should have got into more depth with how revolutionary the triggers were specifically for racing games, and how great the Hall effect sensors were in all of them
I liked the Dreamcast controller too. It felt good in my hands, had a real good feel to it. And the memory cards that had that digital display that interacted with certain games. Dreamcast was so far ahead of its time; and that's exactly what killed it.
I have a laundry list of things that killed it, but I agree it was way ahead of its time!
That display was definitely cool and interesting at times. I loved whenever they did something outside of just displaying the game title.
@@CNotez-uo8kp Yeah, in RE Code Veronica it displayed your health meter
I swear The Dreamcast Controller is the best controller I have ever used in my life to this day.
THANK YOU! 🙌
Dreamcast controller is super dope, most people that bash it don’t even play the games let alone at a high level. The DC controls are top tier
🙌 🙌 🙌
This channel is amazing, you're doing a great work and you deserve more attention! The dreamcast was so advanced at that time.
You are amazing 🤘
I love the Dreamcast controller but honestly have never been able to put into words as to why. I'm not too good at explaining controllers and differentiating them. but you put everything into words as to why it works so well. I have big hands so the DC just fits perfectly for me. The design is very Y2K and it's just downright gorgeous. The magnetic analog stick is something we don't really see that much of today even though stick drift is such a problem, but Sega had it figured out more than 20 years ago. I wish the VMU was backlit and didn't require those tiny button cell batteries, as they make using them outside of the console pretty difficult. I never put two and two together that the wire came out of the bottom because of the VMUs, that's a cool design on Sega's part
So glad you agree! Love the design most of all for sure
@@TynologyGaming I'd hang the Hello Kitty Dreamcast controller on my wall lmao
@@JawCrush that thing is 🔥
Don’t forget that it’s gorgeous-looking. Not so industrialized in design. People were more optimistic for the future back then and there was more of an attitude that tech also added beauty to the home back in the Y2K era. Think of your old colored iMac as an attractive piece of furniture rather than just the utility that it is. Tech was designed to be more aesthetically pleasing because it was part of competing within the market back then. The Dreamcast is not the only such case, though Sega outdid themselves with it. The minimalism we see today is really a result of the iphone’s success.
I love design from this era. It was so deliberate and unapologetic. No controller and console looked so good together
The main purpose of the cable location on the controller was to prevent people from tripping on the cable and yanking the console off the shelf. The cord terminates more directly to the floor rather than floating above the floor in front of the player.
Xbox went all in on this with the breakaway cables
Only complaint with the cord is that it should have been longer. :)
@@TynologyGaming They did, indeed. Some of us were playing with a Dreamcast for quite a while before that existed though.
That thing when you clipped the cord in blew my mind and I'm a huge DC apologist
😎😎😎
The problem with the controller isn't not having a second analog stick, it's the *awful* ergonomics. The triggers, when pressed, put your index fingers below your thumbs, which can cause damage to you hands. The grips are basically completely vertical, so that "tight grip" can actually damage your wrists, and even if you (I) don't play very long, it's still very uncomfortable. That's before talking about the hard plastic analog stick and sharp, floaty, and low d-pad. It's generally not a great controller for the majority of users, and I think it's actually let off a little too easy most of the time
The PSX, N64, Saturn, PS2 and Dreamcast had innovation, variety and courage in both hardware, software and accessories that modern gamers can only dream of, and it was an amazing and bewildering time to play games. IMO, Dreamcast was already being unfairly maligned before it even came out, based on the rushed and shoddy western games and retail strategy for 32X and Saturn. Sega USA and Sega Japan were on a totally different page. Having said that, Saturn and Dreamcast were over reliant on arcade ports, I think (though I personally couldn't get enough of them) and left some gamers wanting. I suppose this happened to a degree with Dreamcast because of all the exclusive deals developers made with Sony and the PSX. But the Dreamcast really delivered on the arcade front, and was prepared to take risks with quirky games.
I thought the triggers were really intuitive for racing games, and it was the first machine where I had the arcade stick and a steering wheel. The Dreamcast faced a backlash (in the west) for mistakes with the Saturn, and an uphill struggle against the popularity of exclusive franchises on the PSX/PS2.
It's sad how people are quick to judge the Saturn and Dreamcast because there were some amazing and groundbreaking games on both systems. Both systems deserve more love from the casual gamer. Genesis to Saturn to Dreamcast, Sega evolved their controllers, while still making bold decisions. I can't really notice much difference with modern console generations; people just seem to talk about frame rate and resolution. When I look at the Xbox controller, I just see what is essentially a Dreamcast one whether modern gamers can admit it or not. The blunders of Sega viewed in hindsight are so interesting, but most of them are marketing choices, not problems with the hardware.
Couldn’t agree more! I was just having a similar discussion with my girlfriend about how I loved all the arcade ports and quick action-focused games on the Dreamcast, even if some people were looking for a different experience. It’s exactly what I loved and wanted at the time
@@TynologyGaming I was so hyped for the Dreamcast release, and so relieved at how well the games turned out. I think the Japanese ad campaign was really fun too! The Saturn was just too expensive for me, and of course some of the early titles got some criticism or got delayed. I'd decided that I didn't really trust CDs and loading times, and to hold out for an 'Ultra 64'. I had a Genesis prior to that, and always had a lot of envy for the SNES titles. I thought some of the Sony exclusives looked cool (like Ridge Racer) and the controller was cool too, but I was wary of them as a new console platform.
When the N64 came out, I had I lot of fun with that, but it was a bit lacking in some ways, with the games library a little too cutesy at times, and I longed for titles like Sega Rally or Gran Turismo and MGS. So Dreamcast really scratched that Sega arcade itch (although Sega GT wasn't entirely enough for me) while still having the Resident Evil games, and especially things like Shenmue that you couldn't find anywhere else. Then I went straight to PS2 for Gran Turismo and MGS, with the DVD player included being a factor. While I played Gran Turismo 4 and MGS2 & 3 over and over, something about the N64 and Dreamcast make them my favourite platforms. There was just so much depth and quality. And I have some kind of traumatic nostalgia for what the Sega Saturn could have been. The mid to late 90s was just such an amazing time for gaming, and I think most of the norms of gaming that we don't even consider were established in that 5 year window.
Love this controller so much. In fact I have got a custom black wireless one (Dreamconn) from DreamMods with a Dreamport (able to use the controller to turn the Dreamcase on/off) along with a backlit VMU...I wouldn't want to play DC games any other way.
That sounds like a dream, Biggus Dickus 69 🙌
Awesome video! I have been thinking about doing one of my own since I saw so many negative comments on the Dreamcast controller lately (probably from people that are just starting to discover the console)... you pinpointed just about everything I wanted to say about it... But I would like drive home the point that the Dual Shock 2 for the PS2 lacked analogue triggers, making it objectively a worse controller since you eliminated the granular control to brake and throttle in racing games. When it came to fps games (and there weren't many on consoles at the time)... I don't see it as a massive downside to have one analogue stick. Because you can use the left stick as a mouse (for your view). and then ABXY the same way you use ASWD on a keyboard. Sure, it takes time to re-adjust our muscle memory nowadays since you are used to handling "look" and "move" with different hands. But remember, back in 2001 there was no conventional method to control camera movement in ANY game... Even when Halo came out and dual stick fps were at its infancy, both players and developers were still adjusting to dual stick controls, where developers needed to offer generous amount of auto-aim to make it viable. Ultimately there's barely any disadvantage to play on a Dreamcast controller. The only difference is that you have digital movement instead of analogue (just like ASWD on a keyboard)... THAT, however (in itself) doesn't put you at a disadvantage. Personally I think the Dreamcast controller is ingeniously designed. Especially considering it was designed in 1997-1998.
Couldn’t have said it better myself! Great point about the DS2’s triggers!
Dreamcast was the first system I had for myself as a kid. I was a huge Stan back when it was out and still am today. The fact that people are still putting effort into releasing new or old games on it should tell you something. I’m going to drop a GDemu in mine since the drive stopped working so I can share these titles with my boys. Keep the DC content coming.
I did the exact same thing! I have two boys and I’ve been trying to get them to play these games with me haha. Here’s my video about my experience with the GDEmu: ruclips.net/video/zcgPNgD28O4/видео.html
Th promo video at the beginning hooked me 😂. I’m here for it!
I’m here for you! 🫵
I bought PSone when I was 12 back in 2006, the PS1 controller with analog was the best, I still think its the best to this day. I love PS separated Dpad so much. I always think Dreamcast controller is so weird until I got to hold one at retro gaming shop one day and it feels so good, I think its number 2 for me especially because of that analog, it has better analog than Switch does. The features and accessories are so cool :) Too bad its so underrated.
I don’t mind the DualShock (and PSone) it was just ahead of itself with the dual sticks. Glad to hear when others like the Dreamcast analog stick!
I distinctly remember the ‘acclimation’ period of getting used to game controls. I feel like in a lot of circumstances, it actually made the games more innovative. Developers thought of creative ways to play and design games which I think is kind of lost nowadays
It definitely worked both ways. Sometimes it was intuitive and innovative, other times it felt like a great game was just cut down by controls that just didn’t work as well. It was an exciting time for sure haha
Twin stick dual analogues are awful. They are literally the downgrade from motion controls that kb+mouse uses, and there everyone can see the problem, magically disappearing when spun into a positive.
I hope the wacky Nintendo patent for incremental analog pad finally gets somebody to make games correctly, with n64 style C-buttons corresponsing to lean positions, like peeking behind walls in let's say, Deus Ex Human Revolution. DON'T make me scroll around by pointing a direction, just snap me into that rearview mirror mode. I will handle the 3D movement with ONE stick, if you can keep the visual information stable, not waggle it around like relative positioning in TotK snapping in and out of wall collision.
Twin stick is just cringe, lining your shot like you can only manage 2D games. Watch anybody play twin stick ALMOST ALWAYS they just move the camera so they can play like it's Crash Bandicoot. And this is not communicated at all, which is why there's this huge dropoff with people who could never pick up 3D gaming, with no childhood wasted on acclimation. And NOW those acclimated core gamers are inept at learning new styles. Doesn't exactly bode well for a generation that's going operate surgeries with variable robot technologies, but can only handle it if the controls are invented by Sony because they drop out of the habit the minute they have enough free time to play some GTA.
I find its directional pad the most accurate ever and not at all uncomfy, was shocked how much shit SegalordX talked of it recently.
I've always felt and still do that dual thumbsticks are redundant / stupid / over emphasized. Especially whenever there is mouse and keyboard available. I cringe to death over people using a controller for PC fps gaming. I believe the Dreamcast game 'Headhunter' simply has a switch, one of the four main buttons makes the stick to either control the character or the camera. I don't remember this ever being inadequate for enjoyable gameplay.
As for the DC's stick on a technical level... it is a fantastical engineering achievement, time proven and all, but it could be better feeling. It has the annoying tendency due to its deep insides, to rotate some on the Z axis instead of moving exactly in the direction you are pushing. And some (micro-)directions are harder to push than others. The Saturn 3d controller does the exact same. I think this could have been the primary area to improve the controller over anything else. And then some added resistance to the triggers when they are almost completely pushed in, they are too linear.
Ah I didn’t know he wasn’t a fan! Thanks for all the in-depth analysis! I didn’t go quite as deep as you!
I love the Dreamcast controller. Before that I loved the Saturn 3D Pad, which was essentially a prequel to the DC
Yep! I touched on this near the end of the video. I still need to pick up a 3D Pad
Let me tell you what the average PS1 game did with the right analog, at least on my experience: Up is Triangle, Down is Cross, Left is Square and Right is Circle. I swear most games I played in that era were like that, they did absolutely nothing with the analog, either because there was a big chance people didn't own a controller with analogs, or because they maybe started to design the control scheme prior to analogs being a thing, or idk.
Maybe all games I played were old as heck? And the ones that weren't were RPGs so what the heck are RPGs gonna do with a second analog (back then, now most RPGs have standard 3rd person twin stick controls).
On the other hand, in retrospect, I do feel like I wish the Dreamcast had a second analog. Like, last time I played Sonic Adventure I really wanted a bit more control over the camera, lol.
Sonic Adventure is probably the biggest loser in all this. It would have been awesome to control the camera, but I’m guessing a lot of the game mechanics are tied to it determining where to look for you, unfortunately. But you’re totally right with the right analog, I forgot how often it was used to mirror the face buttons!
PS5's controller has the same design language as the system itself. Aside from that, I agree
Also I had an adapter back in the day that let me use a keyboard and mouse, and a PS1 controller. Including dualshock. It was great for Virtual On
I almost gave a shoutout to the PS5 as I think it's been the first console since the Dreamcast to do that. Virtual On was a badass game!
I loved the Dreamcast controller. It had the analog stick in the right place on the controller. Playstation should have put the left stick where the d pad was. I really liked my Dreamcast.
I like using my PS controllers (and 8bitdo) for 2d games actually, I struggle inline thumbsticks, so if I'm using a d-pad I'll use PS, if I'm using analog, I'll use offset (Xbox, Switch Pro, etc)
A Dreamcast controller defender, I need the help from tynology tynology,
Love the intro
The hater never even lifted the Dreamcast controller
Even PS2 games controlled with the dpad
I’ll take your case! 🫡
Even though it's been probably 20 years since I played THPS2 on the Dreamcast I'm getting the "this just isn't right" feeling when playing THPS1+2 on PC with an Xbox One controller.
🥲🥲🥲
Let me Rephrase what I tell people for more than 20!! years whenever someone mentions the Dreamcast:
*"You know what? The Dreamcast was indeed AHEAD of it's Time!"*
Preach!
Absolutely elite controller. One of the best ever made.
I didn't realize it had a Hall-effect stick! That's incredible for the time. My only gripe is that I felt it was a bit too small for American hands. But that's a terribly minor complaint.
That stick is pretty wild too, seeing how simple it works. I’d say I have large hands and never had an issue with the size (unlike PS1 controllers where I felt like I was smothering the poor thing)
You felt the DC controller was too small?
Just compared it too the old Xbox controller and modern 360/X1, PS4/PS5 controllers, it is only slightly narrower than the OLD DUKE OG Xbox controller. it is bigger than the rest of them. The newer ones feel heftier/meatier because of the batteries, rumble etc...
The PS1-PS3 controllers were definitely on the smaller side though.
Man, this is a great video, thank you so much! Yes, while it's not perfect, the Dreamcast controller certainly is a great one. Also, just binged all your Dreamcast videos. Please keep em coming! 🎉✨ Cheers!
Thank you for the support! Love that you’re enjoying! I’ll keep at it 🤘cheers!
Knowing what we know now, sure there can be gripes for a modern retro gamer. But back then we didn’t notice or care. I just wanted to listen to The Offspring while drive a Taxi and play as Sonic grinding on Soaps lol.
It’s so true hindsight is 2020. Had some good times with the ol DreamC though
Life was so much simpler back then 🥲
Another thing I really like is how rigid the cable is. My gamecube controllerand dualshock 2 cables are just permanently stuck in a weird position cuz i have to loop the cables around.
That’s a great point! The cables on these are such high quality
Dreamcast and it's controller are my favorite console/controller combo of all time
What great taste you have! 🤌
First time looking at one of your videos. I like your style, this was refreshing to hear opinions other than the usual. You make some good points on the controller I haven't heard. I find Quake to be rare in its genre in that it does have a lot of verticality, but hey, when everyone uses the same controller everyone has the same limitations. I do think 6 face buttons would have been nice, and would be welcome on Switch, PS4, and PS5 controllers.
That seems to be the biggest complaint I’ve seen, the 6 button to 4 button change. Thanks for watching! 🤘
I remember seeing an analog stick for the first time IN HOME and it took us no time to learn marvel vs capcom 2!!!
I love “first time” stories with the Dreamcast!
When I first saw the Dreamcast controller, I was like: wow, what a monster. But after I picked it up and played, it became my favorite controller. It's still the most comfortable controller. 🎮😊
It seems some people love it, and some people despise it. I’m with you 🤜🤛
@@TynologyGaming 🤜🤛
Best controller i ever had. Didnt agree with the haters that it sucked. Only thing bad was that it would lose connection if the wire was bent to much. It was as perfect as the dualshock to me
Doesn’t deserve the hate
Love your passion about these niche topics! I wish you were my friend! Shout-out from NC
We can be friends!
Ppl talking crap but didn't say nothing when psp came out with one analog and Ppl love it.
GREAT POINT OMG
Considering that Sega had released a twin stick controller for Saturn and Dreamcast for their Virtual On games, I feel that they would have released a dual analog controller if the console had lasted longer.
I had no complaints with the DC controller, my only issue was the battery life on the VMUs and their annoying beep when the batteries died.
Yeah my next video I touch on those twin sticks! My VMUs die soooo fast 😢
thank you for mentioning Halo controls. that was pioneering moment for FPS on console.
It wasn’t the first, but it was definitely the most influential!
Thank you! Dreamcast controller was comfortable and worked well for the games on the system. And I could play NFL 2K without my brother looking at my plays.
Yesss! Play calling in 2K was an absolute game changer (I discuss this in this video: ruclips.net/video/zcgPNgD28O4/видео.htmlsi=XBwiJQ1ZNghsx2Y9)
I have pretty clear memories of renting an import Dreamcast before the US launch and I distinctly remember thinking "oh, it has fewer buttons" and that was about all I thought about it. I think that as time went on I found myself curious about how certain games would handle certain 8 button control schemes (hint: they used the D pad, mostly) but then I found out about the secret Z and C buttons...
I got a lot of comments about it going to 4 face buttons (at least on the main 1st party pads); it just wasn’t an issue for me I guess. There were a lot of hidden inputs to allow keyboard & mouse support also
Man so much about the Dreamcast was original and cutting edge, you don't see that first one nowadays.
Mini games in the controller, top tier graphics... (for 1999)
Anyway, the production quality is amazing, this should blow up if there's any fairness in the world.
Thank you, I appreciate it! I remember getting it right away and being blown away with all the features it had. What a revolutionary console that didn’t (and doesn’t) get the praise it deserves.
Love the music btw 🤘
@@TynologyGaming Much appreciated, brotha! Love the content, I see so many great vids on your channel I can't wait to watch :D
Retroid Pocket stuff (I have tons of retro handhelds too!), SEGA stuff (born n' raised on Genesis), and again - those thumbnails, that production quality - you're crushin it!
Fun fact you can play goldeneye with duel control no gimmicks, you need to just use 2 controls
I always wanted to try that!
@@TynologyGaming in certain levels it's almost Necessary for speed running
The Dreamcast came out in 1998, Ocarina of Time was just released, classics from that era like Banjo and Metal Gear Solid wasn't even released yet, most games used L and R to rotate the camera
The Sega Saturn got a analog controller in 1996, the Saturn 3D Controller that was compatible with most of its 3D library and was basically a better N64 Controller with analog triggers
The Dreamcast Controller is an improved Saturn 3D Pad, better in almost every way, except for its dpad and lack of C and Z buttons. Since most games use L and R to rotate the camera and it had analog triggers, it worked almost as great as a second analog stick
Actually, if you play third person action games like Dark Souls, you probably are familiar with the term "claw grip", this was a nonissue with the Dreamcast controller, since you use your index fingers to rotate the camera and have your thumbs free to use the face buttons
This is a great explanation!
I fully agree. I love the DC controller. Actually one of my favorite controllers.
Same, it still feels so good to use
I love the Dreamcast and the controller. I remember my first time playing it at my local EBgames and thought, “I shouldn’t be holding this, I don’t deserve it”. I did eventually get mine day one and fell in love. I still own it and all it’s games along with a VGA monitor. It’s thinking…
I remember doing the same thing! I had a nice CRT VGA monitor that was my primary display, and I ended up working at that EB a few years later
Recently played Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed again (originally played it on release) at a cottage outside on a 100 inch projector screen. Such a great game & wish we'd get a remake or remaster.
I think the issues people have with the Dreamcast controller are mostly in retrospect as it was a controller of the time, rather than a forward thinking controller. I've always viewed Xbox as an extension or continuation of what Sega did.
This and the Saturn 3D pad really inspired every single modern non-PS controller. I’ve been absolutely loving SASASRT! I need to get friends to play with me
@@TynologyGaming I've been looking recently into PS3 online revivals but I haven't yet found anyone who's gotten this game up & running.
@@Ty-douken I picked it up on Steam for cheap, didn’t try to see if anyone was online though
Dreamcast all around was a masterpiece.
Exactly! 🙌
I know people the 4 face buttons, but aside from the MegaDrive and Saturn, no other post-SNES consoles had 6 buttons either yet no one hates them for it.
Personally, I agree that no dual sticks is bad for 3D, but not a deal breaker (huge PSP fan too, and it has the same amount of inputs but doesn't get hate for it).
The stick shape sucks, same with the Dualshocks until the DS4 came out, but the rest of the controller is great, super comfy to hold.
I won't lie, the Wavebird was peak 6th gen controller tech, but the Dreamcast wasn't the worst controller. The DS2 is good, but the legs are so short it gets crampy after time, and my hands are fairly small.
And I know people like to hate the Dreamcast stick and dpad spacing, but it's the same distance on The Duke, and even smaller on the PSP, Vita and similar systems too so I don't buy that reason at all.
Overall, yeah it's flawed, so were all of them back then(even now) but it's not as bad as people make it out to be.
Exactly, haha. I had a six button Genesis controller and yeah it was nice for 2D fighting games but that was about it
Great video, really well shot and edited too!
Thank you sensei 🙏
The DC controller was just awsome, built to last forever, perfect digi pad (all todays digi pads are rubbish), nearly perfect analogue stick (it misses a concave head indeed). The controller set a new standard and was way ahead of it's time. I used to play with the VMU a lot to grind for extras in the VMU mini game for Skies of Arcadia, all the extras were accessible in the main game then.
Only thing which could have been better were the analogue triggers. They worked fine, but tended to stick after some time; sure this could be fixed.
Yesss! You get it! 👏
Dreamcast controller was always my favorite. There's nothing like it design-wise, it's unique. I also liked the idea of "one" analog stick.
"There's nothing like it design-wise, it's unique." I agree that it's pretty much unique, especially with the VMUs, but it also feels like an evolution of the 3D Saturn controller.
Absolutely 💯
Dreamcast was way ahead of itself. One of the best systems I wish I still owned. For me Soul Calibur, was it and that 2k. Same button setup but better and more adaptable very versatile. Where do you think the Xbox controller came from? Awesome video 💪🏼
Thank you! Couldn't agree more. Mine got stolen a few years ago so I've been slowly buying bits of my collection back
@@TynologyGaming That's unfortunate
However once the collection is completed, it's a little piece of nostalgia. Thank you for the video again 👏🏼
People can knock it all they want. It just feels right in your hands and does what it should. The drawback of the plastic stick is a moot point because the rubber caps designed for 'modern controllers' fit on there just fine. DC is the last giant leap that home consoles took. It's been all baby steps since.
Oh I should try to pop one on there! Couldn't agree more though
This channel is a hidden gem. What an opening!
DUDE I MISS YOU!
Me too man me too
All it’s going to take is one more Dreamcast video from you and I’ll end up buying one. Still laughing at the intro. 😂
You need one!!
wow i had no idea the insides were so modular. didn't know the controllerwas hated, never heard that from anyone tbh. best every game on dreamcast that i had worked awesomely with it. soul calibur, powerstone, marvel vs capcom 2 etc. vmu's were neat aswell, but the portable memory card aspect of them never had much benefit to me as i was the only one in my state that had one it felt haha
Just look at the comments here to feel all the hate haha 😅
Thank you for loving the Dreamcast as much as I do.
Thank you for being so awesome 🤘
You can lube the springs with mechanical keyboard switch lubricant (lithium grease) to eliminate the creaky springy feeling and sound. It's caused by the sides of the spring rubbing against the inside walls of the trigger.
Good suggestion!
The Dreamcast controller is so well designed it's unbelievable. I absolutely love the VMU memory card design, I loved seeing all the custom logo animations.for each different game. Also best triggers on any controller, fight me. It also just feels sturdy and great in the hands.
If Sega released a refresh controller, ala 8BitDo/Gulikit with a 2nd analog stick this time, shut up and take my damn money.
I agree 100% 🔥🔥🔥 I should have spoken to the build quality and sturdiness of the controller!
@@TynologyGaming Still a solid love letter to the Dreamcast here. You've motivated me to dig out my poor old Dreamcast and give it some much needed TLC and love, it's been years. For that, I thank you!
@@winlover37 cheers to that! Enjoy! 🍻
One of my friends always mentions his opinion that the Dreamcast controller was one of the worst console gaming controllers whenever I mention the console. He seems to forget that the Nintendo 64 controller demanded that the player grow an extra hand in order to access all the buttons and triggers and I don't understand why such a big fuss is made about the cable coming out of the bottom of the controller. It's not like the controller leaks molten metal all over your hands when you use it. The convex analogue stick is the biggest issue I have with the controller really. My big burly hands had no problem lifting two VMU's and a controller all at once. Perhaps I'm stronger than most people but I doubt it.
Strong enough to lift your crown, king 👑
@@TynologyGaming I need to get my Dreamcast fixed. The Skies call out for adventure and the Delphinus beckons.
I actually want to modernize the layout and use Dreamcast controller as my main controller.
That would be awesome! Let me know if you ever get around to it!
I play racing games and the Dreamcast had a massive collection of them. My only complaint about the controller was how thin the triggers were. After holding down the trigger for a few hours going around in circles, my index was hurting like crazy. When the XBox (aka Dreamcast 2) came out with the Duke and the fatter triggers, I already know my issue was resolved.
I could understand that for long play sessions for sure
Sega was on top of analog sticks back in the day. Even the Saturn's 3d control pad had a hall effect sensor in it. Too bad things went so bad for them or a lot more people might have more appreciation for their controllers.
I wish more people experienced the Dreamcast, seriously
My fav controller...had the Saturn 3d pad thing, and getting the DC controller was awesome. It is flawed tho...that d pad shredded my thumb with the sharp edges. It is still my fav gamepad of a time.
I’ve heard a lot about this sharp d-pad. I’m guessing it was a bugger deal for certain types of games
Awesome intro! :) And it's criminal that hall effect sticks are still not standard.
They're all the rage now, only 24 years later 😂 and thank you 🤓
I just think it was comfortable as hell.
I’m right there with you!
I love how the joystick snaps into the main 8 directions around it. It adds a nice tactility to it.
I know the N64 had the gated analog stick. I guess I feel it a bit when fully along the edge but it’s not like the N64
@TynologyGaming Well for me it's the perfect balance between the round outer ring of a PS2 joystick, and the octagon shape of the GameCube. As you can easily find the main 8 directions while still keeping that nice round feel when you move the joystick around.
The DC controller was great for its time, although I prefer using the Retrofighters controller over the the stock one nowadays. And in no way did the controller cause the DC’s downfall, the Saturn did. SEGA blew so much money on the Saturn (and the 32X), they just didn’t have the funds left to continue to support the Dreamcast. People tend to forget how well the DC did in its first year. The DC was truly a console of innovation, from the controller, to the games, to the actual forward-thinking hardware. Truly the pinnacle of SEGA.
Couldn’t agree more. I’ve been wanting to grab a RetroRighters pad
@TynologyGaming their Dreamcast pad honestly really good. Totally recommend!
The Xbox controller wouldn’t have copied the Dreamcast controller if it was “bad”. Sega Saturn 3D pad and this controller still have the most comfortable placement of the Analog stick to this day, rests where YOU want to rest your thumb, not all the way in the middle of controller near the start button where some people say is a “good” placement🙄
Great point. I can get used to the mirrored analog sticks for the most part, but the worst is trying to push directly up, because you have to push basically left (since your thumb is more horizontal) which always throws me off
@@TynologyGaming PS Controller sticks always felt like a bad knockoff of the N64 stick back since I first tried the Ape Escape demo for the first time. It felt like I had to hold a big sandwich whereas the N64 stick at least felt somewhat natural.
Dreamcast was awesome, it was so beyond everything else at release.
It was revolutionary
I remember very well my Dreamcast controllers. The only thing you have to do to the analog stick mechanism was to tighten the spring from time to time, in order to keep it firm. NO DRIFT AT ALL. Only the Gravis Xterminator for PC had something similar.
Oh wow I don’t think I ever touched the spring
medal of honor series on ps1 was offered dual analog set up that feels like ahead of its time. it feels like modern control we've enjoyed today, at least for fps games
Yeah, that was one game that did have a buried option for modern dual controls (around the same time Rainbow Six did the same). By default the left control stick looks around and moves you forward and back and the right stick is used to strafe so it flips two of the axes. There is an alternate control option with modern controls. I think that was one of 3 total games for PS1 (+1 for PS2) that had the option to have modern controls before the Dreamcast was gone
kiss psycho circus fps worked surprisingly well with just buttons
Next video I'm playing a lot of games like this!
You Got the same Rumble Pack I have and it's really cool because the Rumble is real strong.
I picked this up recently! I had the same when I originally had my DC and liked it
PLUS!!!! who doesn't love NO STICK DRIFT....
I also remember using the dual shock controllers and 80% of the time they did noting big or nothing at all.... 🎉❤
Literally. I had Dual Shocks for my PS1 and never used them
Amazing console. Only issue was my games would break easy and freeze . But only some . This consolewas the best and holds amazing memories . The machine kicked a**
Yeah the GD rom drive would fail, that’s why I stuck an ODE in mine, it’s amazing
@@TynologyGaming amazing . So if i buy the extension kit and gdemu board how easy is it to put games on
@@leonrosser183 it’s really simple, there’s several in depth guides but you just need a FAT32 formatted card, and each game in its own numbered folder: I breeze through it in this video: ruclips.net/video/zcgPNgD28O4/видео.html and link to a more in-depth guide
@@TynologyGaming awesome thanks man 🙂👍😁
Awesome video 👍🏻 I got my Dreamcast rather than an emulator just so I could use the controller again,always played fine with it and the vmu is just such a cool feature
Yesss! The Dreamcast is one of those consoles that I advise people play with original hardware if at all possible
Is there any way to repair a vmu screen that has ink spread?
@@ittylink I haven’t looked at how hard it is to replace the screen itself, but I know there are ways to backlight the screen, which I’d love to do
xbox having a dreamcast like controller was no mistake, sega and microsoft were very much in bed together when the original xbox was made, in fact it has a lot of dreamcast tech in it.
Yeah, button layout, analog triggers especially. A lot of SOA people ended up at MS