Should Death by Dangerous Cycling Carry a Life Sentence?
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- Опубликовано: 15 май 2024
- Cyclists who cause death or serious injury could face up to 14 years in prison if the government has agreed to change the law. Conservative MP Iain Duncan Smith, who has been campaigning for the change, says that cyclists should be made accountable for reckless behaviour.
So, should death by dangerous cycling carry a life sentence?
Broadcast on 16/05/24
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So is a person "less dead" if they are killed by a cyclist rather than a motorist.
No, but they are statistically around 1000 times less likely to be dead.
Yes, and being less dead is clearly better than being medium or more dead. I learned that in medical school.
I wonder who amongst thats talking, has ever been hit by a bike going fast, cos I have.
But thats not the main issue, the issue is about following the code of law and decent conduct on the road. And lycra lot don't do either. And that makes it incredibly dangerous for pedestrians. And I'm sick to the teeth of hearing the (very aggressive) 'victim' narrative from them, while they're the aggressors on the road!! Ask ANY car, bus, taxi, etc or pedestrian, partic those who have infirmity and need to be free to trust when they're safe to cross. There's laws, to keep everyone safe on the roads, and lycra lot break them about every 2 seconds, clearly believing the law applies to everyone else but them.
That's the issue. Cycle properly (eg. not on all 4 sides of a vehicle, not weaving in and out of vehicles, half the time in blind spots therefore, ETC), and you WON'T GET ANY CYCLISTS KNOCKED OFF!!! Its about responsible cycling, following the law like the rest of road users, and cycling properly and thoughtfully. As against doing exactly what YOU want to do, regardless of ALL the other people sharing those roads, zebras, traffic lights, etc etc etc.
@@XelaMa Anti cycling nonsense.
Not anti cycling at all mate, decent cyclists no problem whatsoever, just the lycra code of cycling appallingly, selfishly and dangerously.
Mate, you are talking about life sentences for cyclists but literal stabbing attempts and c*** abusers get less than 5 years????
You take a life whatever the circumstance you need to be held accountable,take a life serve life.
@@wm4230Now you are being silly.
@@barbarahalkyard1901 It's a valid point.
All circumstances are different. It's not as simple as saying life for life.
What if someone crosses the road without looking?
What I’m saying is that it’s just not that simple is it
I cycle and drive. This cycling advocate is not helping the situation. Trying to absolve cyclists of all responsibility just breeds resentment between road-users.
The mass of the vehicle may be relevant in penalties for speeding. Because you are being judged on _potential_ risk. It not relevant in the case where someone has already been killed and negligence has been proven in court. Those penalties should be the same.
Think this has a lot to do with a certain bunch who "cycle"with a large green box on their back.
I'm not sure such a case as death by deliveroo has occurred yet.
No, its men of a certain age, in lycra!!!
(And even Chris Hoy said they look ridiculous if over the age of 20!)
@@user-fo9bv2mm1g How would anyone even know if it had?
@@nicholasnich7083 The Daily Mail would have told you about it.
@@XelaMa 99%+ of the pro peloton are over 20. Worry more about the 2000 deaths caused by drivers than the possibility of a 'mamil' causing a fatality.
That old wierdo is the worst campaigner in history
That is what the children chained up in his basement say too.
He says this should be about common sense. There were 0 deaths in 2022 caused by dangerous cycling, less than 2% of cyclists were involved in pedestrian deaths of the same year. Seems to me like a waste of effort to take your eye of real problems we face in society
Correction. Death by reckless driving doesn’t exist. And death by careless driving has a max sentence of 5 years.
What utter bllocks, no car driver has ever been given a life term for killing a pedestrian
WHAT!? And murderers get a stint in a spa for three years, what an absolutely insane statement.
They should allow cyclists to use fast lane on motorways
You can’t cycle on motorways
What?? Cyclusts can't use motorways.😅
@@thehamster2301 their immune
😂😂😂😂
I'm glad the government are serious about this. No back pedalling.
Almost half (46%) of pedal cycle fatalities were in 2 vehicle collisions between a pedal cycle and a car
I've been run down by a car and a bicycle.
Car was life chnging.
Bicycle was sore for a week.
Fewer bikes and more cars won't help.
Who is asking for fewer bikes?
@@jujutrini8412 Many drivers.
Still though. If you do hurt someone through negligence, I think the penalty should be the same regardless of vehicle.
Imagine comparing injuries like that 🙄 fact is anyone using the road should use it correctly.
I thought manslaughter was always a prison sentence
This oldie wants to stop everyone else driving when he's driven his whole life himself...
Stop people walking in cycle lanes then, especially with their dogs crapping everywhere.
An average of 2 pedal cyclists died and 81 were seriously injured (adjusted) per week in reported road casualties.
No way people are debating stuff like this when real life problems exist
Real life? This is real life? Calm down señor cyclist
It's a pretty "real life problem", when its terrifying just to cross the road! And when elderly, disabled and blind people in particular, are liable to be killed every time they do, taking their lives into their hands each time.
Usual aggressive, mock defence, reaction. In real life of course, its "F... Off", every time. Shame on them all.
@@XelaMa well that’s with any vehicle or disability tbh there is risk with anything but arguing about stuff like this is kinda sad
@@XelaMa Mostly by cars and not cyclists though.
I’ve seen cyclists not give way at zebra crossings.
Looks like a problem fairly localised to Lawless London ?
This is f... crazy it's about time the people of this country stand up and take back control!
Dear oh dear, has Good Morning Britain and the Westminster legislation machine got nothing better to do today?
absolutely needed
The official statistics shows 462 pedestrians were injured by cyclists in 2022, compared to 437 in 2021 when one person is recorded as dying, and 308 in 2020, when four people were killed.
That old man is talking 💩 I’ve heard of a cyclist running over a two year old and nearly killing her. So why is he acting like a cyclist can’t inflict real harm is beyond me.
Too many clumsy people working in powerful places
What about Unicycles ?
No one said only bicycles.
When Boris Johnson was
mayor of London, he said it was okay to go through a red light if turning left.
Nobody challenge him from the media/press.
Yes, and he had illegal parties during covid lockdown. Using boris as a prop --- well, well.
It appears ax though my comment was not added. However I shall try again. To use johnson as a prop is really a bit off -- johnson infamously held drinking parties whilst others were locked down. Of course he denied any part of these parties.
@@Alexander-uj5pb The same people frothing over cyclists think Johnson would go for a pint with them. Most of them voted for him.
Right, the UK GOVERNMENT has officially lost the plot. I’m leaving the uk. Peace ✌️
This is the biggest load of tosh I have ever seen. Safe roads will never be achieved. The driving standard is so far off now that no one cares anymore. Ed Abu and Ian Duncan smith you come and cycle in to London with me and then we can debate this new law….Yes I do have insurance, Yes I do have cycling qualifications and no I don’t break lights yet car drivers every day just do not care that your on the road as well…..accidents happen but I watch risky and bad driving that’s well below the speed limit every single day yet no one will ever do anything about it….
Yes so they should if they break the law. But the UK have too many different tiers in policing now days. Nobody listens knower days unfortunately.
A car weighs less than a bus so should punishment for car drivers be less than buses?
MCCARTHY is giving me Jimmy Saville vibes.
They can just say they are mental and get away with it, we should be proud of the UK judicial system.
Bravo, about time, licence and insurance next.
Not a life sentence for an accident.
But negligence isnt an accident
Its not deliberate either.
14 years isn't life....
Its ridiculous
If someone trips over your foot and their injuries are fatal would you expect to be jailed for life
We’ve got to be logical
@@MrJohnnysevenyou’re right it’s 15-20 years
Not very different is it
And most people will only serve 10
Everyone should take care on the roads, cyclists included. Of course cyclists should be held accountable but the sentence should fit the crime. I am a cyclist, I always take great care on the roads as it's also to my advantage to do so. I am 74 year's old so don't cycle so much these days but I am always aware of other people's safety and the rules of the road. People ignore them at their peril, car driver or cyclist.
This is getting silly
Imagine caring this much about bikes
Cyclists are perceived as left wing and easy targets to get thick people upset over in the culchur warz.
Cycle rickshaw is more than 20kg and a lot of e bike so what is he going on about
Donnachdach The expert in everything ...or nothing really!
So the government will release more dangerous prison to find room for dangerous cyclist as prison are full, saying that, they are cyclepaths.
if you push somebody and they stumble and fall to the ground and get badly injured ie brain damage.
you can be taken to court and face prossacution for this and so should a cyclist for doing that just same thing.
that is just like what he argues about the difference between a bike and a car.
so if he was to have it his way we would see cyclist doing what they like speed wise (they normally do ) cars would be 5mph his idea because of the size and weight difference . so what would it be for busses and lorries 1mph
They went after the car owners, and now their going after the cyclists. It'll be pedestrians next.
No, we've lost all our legal rights to safety, courtesy of an unchecked, unaccountable lycra fraternity. The time for change and accountability is very overdue, so we can ALL feel safe on the roads!
Cycling to travel means you are trying to get somewhere and that means you don't need to try to go as fast as you can. Your intention is to simply go somewhere. Anyone who tries to cycle as fast as they can should not be cycling where others are walking. Doing so is irresponsible and if it causes a death it should result in the loss of the cyclist's right to have a free life. Hence life sentence.
Cycling takes time so if you think someone is getting up an hour early to casually cycle to work whilst stopping to smell the roses is clearly unrealistic.
@@Peepsarestrange "I'm late for work! Oops! Just killed someone! Oh well. Two years max. Anyway gotta speed so I'm not late! Wheeeeeee!"
@@xrzeropoint7989 clearly you don't cycle. If you did then you would know just how difficult maintaining 20 mph is.
There isn't any decent cycling infrastructure in the UK,like there is in the Netherlands.
I've cerebral palsy I'm 64 and can't walk,but I can cycle.
I cycle on the road,but I also cycle on the pavement,mostly for safety reasons. I always have my flashing front light on, even in the daytime as drivers pull out of junctions without looking and I've been T-Boned a few times in my youth.
Yes they should be fully accountable by having Reg plates and being fully insured, they have caused serious injury and death to pedestrians and are not held accountable and just ride off into the sunset the law needs to be updated to make it fair for all
......and what about pedestrians that step out into the road (usually looking at their iPhones) and cause accidents?
The average prison sentence for death by dangerous driving is 4 years. Very happy to have a new law for cyclists but life imprisonment is crazy. There is no comparison to the risk and seriousness of driving dangerously vs cycling.
So someone killed by a cycle is less dead than someone killed by a car?
👏🏼👏🏼
The weight of the vehicle is immaterial. Twenty kilograms is a ridiculous weight to state for a bicycle when the weight of the rider has to be added, and most of them weigh between 60 and 100 kilos, some a fair bit more! It is about the impact the collision causes when someone is knocked flat, and hits their head against an object for instance. If that happens to be a stone kerb or a lamppost then do we blame those for being hard?
If a cyclist causes (Causes) someones death by dangerous riding, then yes, they should be prosecuted to the same level as a car driver.
I am a cyclist by the way, and a motorist. The same rule MUST apply.
Very dumb comment. Of course the weight matters. The proof being that in 2021, 1 pedestrian was killed as a result of dangerous cycling, in the same year 360 pedestrians were killed by cars.
So different size vehicles should have different speed limits 😂
Er yes. Have you not seen a bus / coach / truck which is limited to a certain top speed?
About time
FFS one at a time!! Moderator - moderate the speakers
Obviously Yes!
Good
Yes
This new law will not lead to an increase in prosecutions. Maybe tackle the 2000 deaths caused by drivers instead as a priority.
It won’t but you cyclists will be less arrogant, as you will be arrested!
@@KaKA-mt2ei Delusional, driver thought processes.
Oh we can do both buddy, what ya worried about? Maybe you are one of the problem cyclists?
@@nickbreen287 If you cannot accept the real problem is mass deaths caused by drivers, you are probably a potential killer in a car.
@@KaKA-mt2ei difference is cyclists know they can’t be prosecuted for speeding
If the weight of the vehicle matters then shouldn't bikers/motorcyclists get shorter sentences than car driivers?
Here in reality "As Rishi Sunak faces challenges over the early release of dangerous criminals under a scheme aimed at easing overcrowding in jails" so where are all these cyclists going to go? silly
A fair point, however if you cause a death through dangerous cycling you should get a life sentence.
Right, because cyclists are the real danger on the roads. Not cars. A car is defenseless against those menacing bicycles. Make sure to jail those crazy pedestrians causing all the accidents to those poor, defenseless cars and trucks
There are already laws and regulations for cars. You have to take a test an everything.
@@GromDarkwater so if you cycle you couldn't possibly have a car and passed that same test?
What's the difference of a reckless Cyclists/Motorists? They're both reckless. Both have to be considerate plus Cyclists cycle on footpaths which are for padestrians.
He definitely got bullied at school 🤣🤣
Cyclists who want to use public roads and highways should require a proper licence to do so. Cyclists seem to bemoan the careless ness of car drivers and cling to a kind of entitlement. Many cyclist ride dangerously on the road and on pavements and get quite uppity when challeged.
Perhaps pedestrians should also be insured then. Thay used roads when crossing,they share cycle paths. Perhaps people walking with dogs shold pay extra for insurance. I know people tht hve been injured because of both pedestrians and dogs.
Bad driving that threatens more vulnerable users is what entitlement is.
@@daza3620 now perhaps we can understand what entitlements is. Pedestrians being insured will not negate the bad behaviour of many cylclists. Any fool without any safety concerns or roadcraft can can ride a bike and can do it quite legally. Yes, yes we know that many cyclist are very carefull and safe, but as is the case it is often the exception rather than the rule that causes problems. Why are car drivers insured and licenced, because thay can cause damage to people if they are careless and are liable to police charges. Cyclists have no insurance to cover any accident which may happen due to their negligence or carelessness. Cyclists should be seen to have a working knowledge of the highway code and cycle riding safety.
Probably because big angry people in suvs are tearing up the road and millions of cars parked all ovet the street so getting past them is extremely awkward
Yes!
YES
Why should they get away with it and should be made to have insurance because if they damage your car or a pedestrian, especially jumping lights
The ridiculous argument by the cyclomaniac was allowed to pass totally unchallenged . He argued " A bike weighs only 20Kg and a vehicle weighs two tons " . .Wrong . The bike is say 20kg PLUS the rider (average weight 91Kg) =111Kg . " Being hit by a bike at 20mph is equivalent to being hit by a car at only 3mph ". . . Wrong . The car travelling at 3mph can stop immediately , the bike at 20mph cannot , and while a deep , broad , flexible plastic bumper will absorb "some" of the impact meaning only bruising and possibly a nasty fall , the collision point impact force (point loading) of a narrow wheel or crossbar hitting your body at 20mph with 111Kg on board is devastating . Internal injuries and smashed bones to an elderly , or even young , person in that case can easily prove fatal .
Donacah doesnt understand how pressure works. Let me help him. If you are hit by a car its over a wide area which reduces the pressure at the point of impact. A bikes surface area is much much smaller. So the damage at the point of impact is much greater.
Its the same reason a high heeled shoe can apply the same force as an elephants foot even though a human weights a fraction of an elephant.
Your logic is flawed. If this is true then a stiletto coming at you at 10 mph would do the same damage as an elephant coming at you at 10mph . You forgot to take into consideration the actual weight of the colliding object. So yes, a bike colliding with you would hurt, but a car doing the same speed would do more damage simply because of its weight
Donnacha is making up these wierd statistics out of his loony tunes brain. Cyclists can cause serious damage when going too fast. Nobody ever got hit by a car going 3mph. Laughable!
Both cyclists and e-bikers should be licensed, registered and insured. Children should not be allowed to ride on the road without a proficiency test and a licensed bike. Licensing bikes would also cut down on bike theft, and reduce dangerous aggressive, thoughtless bicycling. Riding without a valid licence and insurance would be illegal. Serious and repeat offenders could have their licences revoked and be removed from our streets, just like dangerous drivers.
In Holland and Belgium all bikes are licensed and insured. You even need a horse riding proficiency test to ride them on the public highway. As a result very few kids on ponies are involved in road accidents. And cyclists are in general both, better mannered and safer.
Thats what the UK needs, even more rules and licences.. You'll want a licence for running next
Hahaa good one - you seem to love the red tape ! Also the Netherlands doesn’t have cycle licensing, so you’re also just spouting drivel.
@@bbrs925 last time I was there they did
@@juliadove1006 what? They literally don’t. Tell me where I can find this licensing body. I’ll save you some time, it doesn’t exist.
@@bbrs925 I bow to your greater experience. But why do they have licence plates in the back?
PS. And how dare that silly man refer to the odd pedestrian who "steps out into the road"!!! (The usual 'blame everyone else' tactic, again zero responsibility, ever).These guys are BREAKING THE LAW every 10 seconds, and it's time they were properly held to account as the rest of us road users would be, and their road behaviour closely monitored.
I once saw a cyclist run a red light at a pelican crossing and plough straight into a girl crossing the road, fortunately she was ok as it was clear from his approach he believed the lights were only there for the cars.
Seen lads on bikes riding fast, not stopping at Junctions. Have seen near misses caused by certain cyclists.
Not cyclists wearing helmets and the correct kit you haven't
@@godofcycling yes, with and without. But main culprits are without.
What a depressing conversation. How many people are killed by wreckless driving vs wreckless cycling per year? (Answer is around 1700 vs 0-5) Let’s put our energy into making driving safer for everyone’s sake and stop blaming a group of road users who are overwhelmingly the victims of vehicle collisions.
While the government are finally seeing what some cyclists are like HOW ABOUT requireing a VISABLE REGISTRATION PLATE and to have that bike resistered to an ADDRESS by law and then there is the point of ROAD INSURANCE all of these need to be looked at
The same rules should apply to all road users. Whether it's a horse, cycle, car, one should have basic 3rd party insurance. Causing death by careless use of the roads should carry a minimum sentences, according to the circumstances. Of coarse speed limits should apply to all road users. A cyclist was convicted of causing a death while using an unroadworthy cycle. Can you imagine the uproar if a motorist was in a like position. I have lost count of the number of cyclists who don't have lights, or the incorrect lights on their bikes. Or the number of cyclists who treat going to work as a part of the Tour de France. Modern cycles can be lethal, achieving speeds unherd of even 40-50 years ago.
Try cycling at 20 mph for 30 mins and then you will know how ridiculous part of that comment was.
They should be fined for riding on pavements and they should pay insurance like the rest of road users. Also registration plates so that they can’t cycle off anonymously after causing damage.
Cyclist should have a registration number and should follow the speed limit
You aren't talking about cyclists you are talking about e bikes. Try cycling at 20 mph for 30 mins
@@godofcycling , normal bikes go at 40mph,
@@godofcycling if you are not breaking the speed limit then I can't understand your argument
@@godofcycling A normal bike will go over 40 mph
@@sasfflegionarmyy1990 Can you ride a bicycle at 40mph?
The kinetic (moving) energy involved in hitting a person at 30mph in an average car is 160,000 joules. A bike at 20mph with average sized person has a kinetic energy of 4,000 joules. The notion you apply similar standards in law is totally vacuous and ridiculous.
That's a fair point when you're penalizing someone for doing something _potentially_ dangerous. For example, you could argue that the penalty for skipping a red light in a car should be greater than the penalty for skipping a red light on a bicycle. But in the case where a person has been killed through, it's not really relevant.
@@andybrice2711 do some basic research on people killed by bicycles and then cars and you'll see just how ridiculous that comment is. A death is a death but...
@@andybrice2711 of course it’s relevant. The standards and duties of care owed towards each other in criminal and civil laws like negligence are based on the likely outcomes. If I drive my car recklessly at 30mph or bicycle recklessly at 20mph - I’ve almost nigh on impossible forethought of killing someone on the bike. Whereas very possibly in a car. A law for death by dangerous cycling has to recognise that, which it now by implication doesn’t as it’s been brought in. A law to prosecute someone because they have been involved in an accident where someone has died, in this context, just to get some ‘justice’ and lay blame, doesn’t make it such that it is a right law.
You don't need a gun, buy a bicycle 😂😅😂
In my opinion cyclists should have the same laws as the motorists, and they should have registration plates, if you are on the same roads with the motorists then you should have the same laws 🎉
Bikes shouldn't be on the road, you want bike lanes you pay into a system and build them. Now that might be through increased council tax, bike lane tax or whatever is agreed.
If you want to use the roads then same rules, insurance, taxes, licence plates etc all need to apply as does the sentences.
We do pay into a system… that then builds them… general taxation. Why shouldn’t bikes be on the road? They were on the road before cars were? What you mean is “I don’t like slowing down for cyclists or overtaking them, because I’m lazy”. Grow up.
@@bbrs925 general taxation wasn't made for bike lanes anymore than it was made for go kart tracks. they need paid for via a different mechanism.
You shouldn't be on the roads because you didn't pay for them, simple. If you want to be on them then pay road tax, yearly mot, mandatory insurance and licence plates exactly the same as other road users..... simples again.
I said exactly what I mean, you "grow up" and read what I actually wrote and not read what you want it to read.
Vine needs locking up ASAP
suprised that old ponse is not wearing lycra!!
Yes they should! Always jumping traffic lights a law unto themselves
They should make all cyclists have insurance same as they can’t be prosecuted for speeding and always see them jumping traffic lights
E bikes not cyclists. I cycle and have insurance. As for speed you go out and maintain 20 mph for 30 mins then you might have the first clue. If cyclists are going through red lights then you film and post the vid.
@@godofcycling I didn’t mention e bikes and cyclists know they can’t be prosecuted for speeding
Bicyclists are annoying and irrational when it comes to common sense discussions about road safety
But cyclists are innocent of all laws? A cyclist can do no wrong? Even when they cause mayhem! What are the stats on cyclist caused deaths? Running red lights etc, etc, they know they are above the law, no tax, insurance, or comeback if they are involved in an accident where there are injuries, they just get back on their bike and disappear like smoke?
2:50 WHY ARE YOU DRIVING IN LONDON?! Typical smug, infuriating cyclist attitude.
About time.
Potato 😅
Yes
YES