Great satire indeed. ST has satire written all over the place yet it is well hidden by trying to be super serious. Life of Brian is another great example. Narrow minded squares rallied against a movie showing how narrow minded squares think and act.
@peter Maybe the sequels and spin offs added somewhat to the first movie's reception being an action flick. The political satire was toned down in favor of action and or let's call it horror and spiritual elements like the god bug. Expanding the crazy universe established in ST 1 did not work to well - my opinion.
@@phreakazoith2237 So it is to be expected, then, that individuals that tend to favor authoritarian, militaristic or police state regimes that target specific groups of people as "the enemy" (with themselves as the privileged ones, of course) would take issue with the analysis of this film.
Rumor has it that they chose the main cast of actors based solely on their looks as they are all exceptionally good looking but poor acting abilities in order to make them seem soulless or brainwashed.
The Do You Want To Know More advertising is the only element of satire I actually saw in this. That was quite funny (and annoying). To those making the case this is a satire that is the most satirical point of the film. They didn't seem to have any progress with that element. It's not like it got better or worse or changed through the film.
@@Martel_Clips But meteors have already been known to come out of the AQZ, and the starship Carmen is on was hit by a mentor going towards Earth. The same starship had no communications to warn Earth. To top it all off, Rico lost transmission with his parents on the video call. The meteor was real.
On the contrary Denise Richards (a beautiful woman nonetheless) is portrayed as a total b***h! I mean If I was Rico I'd choose Dizzy from day 1 (or even -1). Then of course we wouldn't have this movie as neither would have joined the army :)
WH40K: - Sir, we managed to capture the planet. - How many men did we loose? - Around one million, sir. - *slamms fist into the table* BY THE EMPEROR! MINIMAL CASULTIES!
3:23 _"The ideology espoused by authority figures within the Federation shares key components with basic fascist political philosophy"_ Shows a clip where Sgt. Zim says you can leave voluntarily at *any time* if it's too tough, unfair or if you just _"miss your mommy.."_
ʀᴀᴡʙꜱᴋᴇ Yeah, but he can actually leave. Is Sean from Hot ones a Fascist because he taunts people into putting the last dab of hot sauce on their chicken wings?
The book had citizenship earned by any Federal service, even the disabled could earn citizenship through service. Also, they made sure that enlistees saw that the teachers, recruiters etc., were all disabled and prominently showed that they were missing limbs, were blinded etc., do they would know the risks. The movie took liberties from the book. Nevertheless the film is a fun romp.
It wasn't originally based on the book. Verhoeven wrote an original script and somebody realized it was similar to Starship Troopers (which the studio had the rights to) so they sort of reverse adapted it to fit. That's why it has the "based on" feel.
@@Calbeck who knows? I imagine what goes through his head whenever the movie is brought up is how he really wanted to make it, how it turned out, and incredibly how nobody was seriously injured during filming (planet p and klendathu scenes were filmed in Rattlesnake Canyon, Utah. Its called that for a reason!)
You say that but there's a line from Rico's father about there being no war going on when Rico tells him he's interested in doing Federal Service that implies military enlistment is the expected and default form of the majority of what constitutes Federal Service.
When one is analyzing the film Starship Troopers, one must keep in mind that while the movie is a satire the book is not. Heinlein had some serious criticisms of liberal democracy. He was not a fascist, but he definitely was of the belief that the right to vote should be earned not given. One might call him a Liberal Republicanist of a neo-Catonian outlook. It should also be noted that in the book Starship Troopers service did not mean military service. There were plenty of non-military options for people who wanted to become citizens but did not want to fight. *edited.
I agree with this, I"m 20 years old and I don't think I should be allowed to vote yet. I voted in 2016 and I think I made a mistake on my choice from then to now so. I think you should 1) Be at least age 25 and 2) Have some steak in the result of the election to vote. So must have no serious felony convictions, must pay taxes. Like the right to decide how our country is run or who runs it shouldn't just be handed out because you survived to age 18. Most 18 year old are nothing but emotions and misinformation.
@@mikethewise2000 have you read Starship Troopers the book? Heinlein would probably argue that a criminal record would not bar one from voting provided the convicted perform penance and/or experience a punishment that corrects the anti-social behaviour in question. The idea behind service means citizenship is that the person proactively participates in serving The Nation and in doing so develops an emotional investment in the wellbeing of The Nation.
@@Mabasei only if The Nation is an exclusive entity. Heinlein's Federation is an inclusive society where anyone capable of understanding the concept of service can earn their citizenship. It is implied in the books that citizenship is open to dogs as well as humans.
Heinlein Q&A Q: Isn't the Government in Starship Troopers Militaristic? A: "Militaristic" is the adjective for the noun "militarism", a word of several definitions but not one of them can be correctly applied to the government described in this novel. No military or civil servant can vote or hold office until after he is discharged and is again a civilian. The military tend to be despised by most civilians and this is made explicit. A career military man is most unlikely ever to vote or hold office; he is more likely to be dead - and if he does live through it, he'll vote for the first time at 40 or older. Q: But All of the Electorate Must be Veterans! A: The criticisms are usually based on a failure to understand simple indicative English sentences, couched in simple words...Their failures to understand English are usually these: 1. "Veteran" does not mean in English dictionaries or in this novel solely a person who has served in military forces. I concede that in commonest usage today it means a war veteran . . . but no one hesitates to speak of a veteran fireman or veteran school teacher. In STARSHIP TROOPERS it is stated flatly and more than once that nineteen out of twenty veterans are not military veterans. Instead, 95% of voters are what we call today "former members of federal civil service." 2. He/she can resign at any time other than during combat -- i.e. 100% of the time for 19 out of 20; 99%+ of the time for those in the military branches of federal service. 3. There is no conscription. (I am opposed to conscription for any reason at any time, war or peace, and have said so repeatedly in fiction, in nonfiction, from platforms, and in angry sessions in think tanks. I was sworn in first in 1923, and have not been off the hook since that time. My principle pride in my family is that I know of not one in over two centuries who was drafted; they all volunteered. But the draft is involuntary servitude, immoral, and unconstitutional no matter what the Supreme Court says. - Robert Anson Heinlein, Afterword of "Who Are the Heirs of Patrick Henry?" in Expanded Universe, Ace Books 1980
In the book the line "Come on you apes, do you want to live forever" is accredited to "marine platoon sergeant -1918. The man who actually said the line is Daniel Daly during the Battle of Belleau Wood, though the book misquotes him, as he actually said "Come on you sons of bitches..."
@@trexlord1 It was intentional, the word "apes" is nickname the mobile infantry had based on the look of the heavy Armor they wear. making them look like big gorillas.
I saw this movie as a young man and was so inspired by it I decided to join federal service and earn my citizenship! Then after 3 tours in Iraq killing bugs, I came home missing some limbs. The federation then retrained me to become a teacher and now I sit in a high school classroom sharing stories of my glorious military service to young impressionable minds...
Something I like about this movie is how Rico and the soldiers at his Bootcamp are so ready to kill bugs and go to Klendathu and wipe them out. But as soon as they get there they just break and run showing that no one was truly ready for the horrors of the bugs.
Tends to happen when you are trained in urban warfare against other humans and get send into what is basically the Battle of Waterloo against multi-limbed insects the size of Range Rovers.
Fun fact: they had a military expert that created a boot camp where he trained about 100 extras with real military training for two weeks. All the actors and extras that made up the Mobile Infantry took this boot camp. He also promoted 4 of the extras as squad leaders to create a military-like experience for all the extras. They had daily drills, marches, training courses, fire arms training AND they had to haul ass in full movie gear in scorching temperatures. But damn, that was worth it because all the scenes with the troopers running around and shooting were top notch.
@@PrometheusLKR Starship Troopers has nothing to do with facism. The director of Starship Troopers and this hack, who never read the book, want it to be about fascism.
Most of the Starship Troopers is Facist criticism is based on the misconception that citizenship can only be earned through military service. It's actually civil service... the movie just focuses on military service b/c it a war story... And when you factor that in, well the whole fascism thing doesn't really hold water any more
WHAT ARE YOU SAYING!? That if they focused on the guy earning his citizenship cleaning poop in the sewers because he wasn't fit enough for military service wouldn't be a good war movie!? lol thumbs up.
And everyone is allowed to take the service, even if they are severely disabled, the state is responsible to create a job that they could do to earn citizenship.
Klingons aren't a good example of a fascist society in Star Trek, they are more a feudal society that has baked in traditions around honour along the lines of feudal Japan. The Terran Empire is more explicitly a stand in for fascism as are the Cardassians and you could make a case for the Romulans.
The TOS Klingons -- from what we got to see of them -- were more fashy than feudal. But then again, those Klingons didn't have crinkly heads, so do they even really count?
Indeed, the Klingons were originally portrayed as (allegorical, at least) communists, the lower ranks even spoke in a droning, conforming tone to the officer caste. Klingons only assumed their more awesome form of feudal space warriors from the beginning of the original movie era to the end of the prime/canon run with Star Trek: Nemesis. The Romulans have likewise never been facists, they are Space Romans. If you want Nazi aliens in Star Trek, you need to go to the Cardassians.
Never took the Romulans for fascists, they were more in line with the Roman model of imperial empire. A lot of their terms used in the cannon is also a give away; Romulus, Remus, Prator, etc.
He does neglect the fact that the bugs started the war most of them are literally bread to kill and cannot be reasoned with. Unlike humans that have a will of their own.
What frightens proponents of egalitarianism is that the "fascism" portrayed in Starship Troopers actually works much better than its irl equivalent, in large part due to how it looks beyond obsession with racial purity and emphasis on the human species as a whole struggling to survive and expand. The global federation based on granting voting rights only to those who've underwent military service, and how it functions better than the democracy we currently have, is the coup de grace to the egalitarian dialectic. But muh equality tho.
Where is the dictator? Where is the "forcible suppression of opposition" ? Remember the Mormon group that settled on the planet and started the whole thing? The Mormon group wasn't a part of earths government, and they weren't being attacked. I do recognize that it was definitely intended to be a film that did represent fascism. That can't be more obvious. I'm just saying they did a bad job. Unless there's a definition of fascism that doesn't involve a dictator.
You don't need to have a dictator in a fascist system. A one-party state can do the job just as well. Fascism is defined as authoritarian ultranationalism where the society and the economy is heavily regulated.
Neither of the two definitions I can think of off of the top of my head, Eco's and Trotsky's, require a dictator. You're not describing a fascist government, rather I think you're describing a government that has characteristics that remind you of fascism, even though those characteristics are neither required for nor even really necessarily suggestive of fascism. Put another way, I think you're focused too much on appearances and less on how the system is operating. This is an absolutely amazing depiction of fascism. My favorite part of the movie is the idea that becoming a citizen is the result of free will despite civilians being subject to years of government propaganda in schools and the government. That illustrates how you can take the sort of short cited negative freedom that's mainstream irl and which appeals to the common person and use it for very nefarious political purposes. That's the kind of thing fascists do before and after they're throwing people out of helicopters or into ovens.
@@swanky_yuropean7514 also a bad post. A good general rule is anyone who thinks they can define fascism simply is uncurious, illiterate, or a liar. Maybe my mentioning Trotsky will make some right winger acknowledge there are a million working but contradictory definitions of fascism. The wobbliest leg on thid particular table is economic regulation. The idea that fascism requires heavy economic regulation is the kind of nonsense pushed by people who read Atlas Shrugged because Anarchy, State, and Utopia was too scary. They HAVE to make it a necessary condition for fascism or they would find themselves in the uncomfortable position of supporting fascists.
The book is way different than the movie. In the Book is wasn't just those that served in the military, but anyone that serves the state in some fashion. And it straight up says it isn't the service that matters; instead that people who are willing to exercise their autonomy in service of others are the only ones who should be given the right to vote (because they are less likely to seek out short-sighted self-serving political ends if they live in a life of service to others). Also in the book, reproductive rights weren't restricted to citizens. So yea, I'd love to see these guys do an analysis of the book, because the movie was made more as a misunderstanding parody of the book.
The mvoie and the book are two complete seperate works, as Verhoofen absolutely stated he had never any intention of making the book look good. They never talked about the book here. It is quite something that you act all superiour, and are not even capable of grasping that.
How is it tough to pin down when the director himself has stated "I don't know how much more obvious I could have made it" when discussing the satire. It's not really up for debate at that point. It mocked everything about fascism and pro-war politics. Taking this at face value is like taking Robocop at face value as a paragon of how to live in the 80's.
It's failed satire. The Terran society looks stable, clean, efficient and prosperous. Humans were fighting a war against an alien that struck first. How is any of this bad?
Uhm, the Terran Federation literally limits it's power to small government, with less powers over the population. How the fuck is that fascist? Fascism is the polar fucking opposite. Fuck the director, he didn't even read the source material. He didn't even get to the part where politics are discussed.
Paul Verhoeven was a teen in WW2 occupied Holland, he’s explained that he thought that these Germans looked great in their uniforms, young, strong and energetic - it just shows this experience left a lasting impression on his young mind, it has nothing to do with sympathizing with Nazi or Fascist ideals. I’ve read similar accounts about German POWs that were captured in North Africa, or later when describing POWs from units like the 12th Waffen SS Pz Div in Normandy. The original book experiments with ideas of democracy Heinlein comes up with a synthesis of the modern democratic state and a warrior citizen state like Sparta. In order to be part of the demos (have full rights/citizenship) you need to have served the demos. Verhoeven combines his crush on German military uniforms with Heinlein’s concept of state and finally modern day US culture, including the early nineties re-emerged militarism and idealization of war (CNN and the like fit right in Starship Troopers’ world) this mix is highly successful because without adding the “Nazi” layer, even if intended more as a visual homage / cadre than anything else, the actual effect of reminding us what such a state amounts to would have been much less, it would have been like “Space above and beyond” or even “Galactica” remake, which replaced “colonials” with Americans in space. I see many parallels in modern day America and Israel, that would not be out of place in the Third Reich - Paul Verhoeven’s Starship Troopers is a pretty solid statement, intended or not.
Gregory Smith I’m pretty confident you don’t know anything about Sparta. It was a form of democracy, so democratic that they had two kings. Also, the senate was only in power for a limited time and had to justify their every action to their successors. Women owned much of the private property in the name of continuity, since only Citizens could own property, men were citizens, and men were often dying. The only Communist aspect of their society was that slaves did all of their farming.
@Gregory Smith Not liking commerce in those times meant that you preferred life as a feudal lord, wanted absolute control over your slaves, hated outside influences, and so you distrusted merchants. That is feudalism. It doesn't make you a socialist.
@Gregory Smith I have no idea where you get the idea that land was bestowed upon Spartiates by the state. It might have been bestowed upon certain people originally back when the city-state was founded but it was not a continuing practice, or Sparta would have never suffered demographic failure as Spartan citizens lost their citizenship when they couldn't pay their taxes. Land ownership was gradually tied up in a smaller and smaller number of families due to how inheritance worked. If the state could freely give land out this never would have happened.
I think this is a very American perspective of Verhoeven that does not ring true for Dutch people at all. Robocop. Starship Troopers and Showgirls are reflections on modern American society from a modern Dutch perspective. All three movies are very similar, I would call them a thematic trilogy. Crime&Corruption, Nationalism&Military worship, and Sex&Profanity respectively. I find it funny that Americans tend to 'get' the first, are a bit mystified and divided on the second but are all very negative on the third. Exploding heads are censored but some titties in Showgirls are scandalous and it is an 'offensive' movie. Seems to me like American society is ready to talk about crime&corruption, have woken up to discussing nationalism and critique of the military since Starship Troopers came out, but sex is still a no-go area lol.
A serious question. *When faced with brutish enemy, how do would one wage war without hate for one's enemy?* Please, give me a sexy non fascist reason.
@John Flaherty The were paramilitary because they were police and the militarized arm (spec Waffen-SS) of the Nazi Party. That is that they did not answer to the Wehrmacht (Germans national armed forces) or any national or state police agencies. If, hypothetically, an other party would have gotten power in Germany at the time, they would not have controlled the SS, but would control the Wehrmacht and the police. It is not at all the same as the KGB, nor the FBI or CIA. All those are state entities, and take order from the ruling party (however KGB operated in a one-party state).
WW1 was not competing "nationalist" agendas, but competing imperial ones. The great game/balance of power that were the causes of WW1 were thoroughly imperial and were rooted more deeply in the dynastic monarchism of the feudal and post-feudal age
I'm . . . not really seeing it. Britain was sure as shooting swallowed up by nationalist fervor with one of the King's personal projects being to shield subjects of German descent from anti-german discrimination and the 'White Feathers' harassing men with jobs vital to the war effort to enlist. And Hitler built much of his own national mythos on the national mythos and nation building project that forged Germany as it was during WWI out of the former Germanic states.
Wasnt it imperialism meeting face first with nationalism tho? I mean the war started literally by Serbian nationalists and ended with dozens of small european nations to win their independency, downing the imperial Era to its end
Nationalism certainly was one of the causes of WWI… it was world war because of imperialism, but nationalism often drives imperialism so… I don’t understand what you’re so strongly trying to say.
The commentary on the DVD for the movie specifically mentions how the Eagle symbol for the Federation was based on pacific northwest indian tribes art. It looks nothing like the Nazi eagle anyway, other than both symbols being an eagle.
I always thought the eagle was supposed to be a stylized WW2 bomber. Also, the wings out eagle has been used by like 70% of Western countries at one point or another, with Rome, Byzantium (ERE for you byzantophiles), Russia, HRE/Austria, USA, and Poland coming to mind off the top of my head. It's hard to claim it as a fascist symbol with so many other examples in history.
The director never read the books and assumed the federation was facist and tried to push undertones that didnt really exist in the source material. There is only one direct example of how government works in the movie which isnt nearly enough to call it facist and that's voting rights through service. In the books its not just military service this is explained as a way to avoid corruption in government. Micheal Ironside's charachter in the movie hits this home with this stating something given has no value you have to earn it or you dont appreciate it. No one is oppressed, its still a republic democracy, free speech is rampant, and personal property and business exists all of these things clearly define the world as not facist.
That's an incredibly shallow understanding; you can, absolutely, have a fascist democracy. The important part is not the political structure, but the promotion of fascist ideology by the society. That they choose to do so voluntarily, makes it no less a fascist state.
@@lucidnonsense942 Can you explain how the Federation is "fascist"? Leader is elected in the office, media is free, there is free market economy, no racism or sexism, goverment takes responsibility for the failures (such as Sky Marshall being replaced) and so forth.
"Something given has no value" is part of a mindset of both fascists and the traditional rightwing. I think there is plenty of evidence that the federation *as depicted in the movie* is fascist.
you kinda stretching this one. Heinlein was a Libertarian and the federation is the image of a hyper-libertarian society. In fact, it is valid to argue the bugs are the fascist ones. The only reason the film has so much fascist imagery was that the director wanted to make the film about fascism regardless of what it actually was!
Mr.Gamer900 Elko Studio yeah but I don’t think Heinlein did a very good job at that. The bugs have a clear hierarchy and show individual will. The bugs, however, are fanatically loyal to their state and have complete unity of race. It’s like Hitler’s wet dream
I always thought it was satire of American culture. As in "America is not that far from being fascist" But then I'm English. Apparently we liked the film and it was well received here.
yeah the thing of "American exceptionalism" and the degree which it so often seems to be, it's always kinda cracked me up. it's like sure, remember how when back in your teens and into early 20s, of all the people you knew there was that one guy who always went out of his way every single day to point out and remind everyone how so incredibly awesome and smart and strong and great looking that he was? That's definitely the person you had the most sincere respect and reverence for, yep. Sure it's perfectly fair and understandable to have pride in your country, but this other layer of having to make it so clear that we are the greatest fucking country in the history of the world, and it better damn well be acknowledged, why do you need that? I mean hell nevermind all the different sort of metrics that show we as the US are lagging well enough behind the rest of the world in plenty of categories, the irony is it's masking a giant insecurity.
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all" Everyday starting age 6, brainwash them, they'll beg for more
It was indeed intended as a satire of American society. But because Verhoeven himself barely understands it, he ended up inadvertently affirming it. Lul
Interesting. the original story was written in 1959 in the middle of the red scare and everybody was building bomb shelters in their backyards preparing for nukes from the great red menace.
+Christoph Stich I'm German and work as Historian focused on german military history and culture and there is never a video on Youtbe made by an American or Brit who creates a completely factual Video of anything related to German Military, whether it's Franco-Prussian War, World War I or World War II. I think most people know that though and it's not worth posting all the mistakes and correct them. I appreciate the Effort though to present History in an entertaining way, even if there are small or big historical inaccuracies in them like in this Video
That depends on which part of SS we speak about, Waffen SS were part of Wehrmacht and answered to OKW and OKH plus command in theire respective theathre of operation, but rest of SS did its own thing under its own command structure.
Jay Mazella Aaaah, a fellow True Diltom watcher. If the people in this video spent 10 minutes watching his videos, this video would probably be good and even accurate.
@Manek Iridius I wonder why the Stalin and Marx cults of personality, and the deaths of 100M through communism are given a free pass tho. At the very least, they should be considered just as abhorrent.
I'd rather get an ad for the Seals instead of the recent awfully woke Army recruiting videos. Those are so awful that I expect every other country to get inspired to invade the United States...
The only fascistic thing in this movie is the dressings. Though a portion of it is actually more German than Nazi (which the term fascist is implying here). People are allowed to go about their lives as they wish. Do business as (and with people) they wish. If it was fascism Rico wouldn't have a choice to go into business with his dad or be recruited. He would be owned by the state from birth to death. If the state wished him to serve there would be no option. They even let the Morman settlers go into bug territory against government warnings. Which the bugs took as an invasion. Which raises a question. Why didn't the bugs engage in diplomacy? This movie is actually a good comparison between a free capitalistic society of Earth and an extremely pure communist/socialist society of bugs. Which is what the biology teacher was really describing in that clip shown. The bugs are born selfless and for their community. The average bug warrior has no more value to the whole than a bullet in a soldier's gun. They will lay down their lives without thought or question. Their biology and mental nature puts them in direct conflict with Earth. Earth even established a buffer zone of sorts in the hopes of preventing misunderstandings about territory. Their value of respecting it's people's freedom to do what they want allowed the Mormans to violate that buffer zone. Damn fascist letting people do what they want especially when the state doesn't like it (sarcasm disclaimer). Now think about that exchange and the difference in value of life. The loss of the Mormans was tragic but not worth going to war over. The bugs smashed an asteroid into a major city killing millions over a simple territory violation by a group acting independent. Any other sane group would have negotiated to avoid conflict over the Morman settler violation. It would be like the US hitting a major Mexican city with a nuke because of all the people crossing the border illegally. The bugs essentially nuked a Buenos Aries. There's nothing wrong with Earth responding with war over a clear threat. The right to vote isn't earned for your ability to inflict violence upon others. It's earned through serving something other than yourself and defending your community. And while I don't agree that only veterans should have the right to vote. I don't think that was the sole intent of Heinlein. He was simply pointing out that a lot of so called "leaders" and "experts" tend to be idiots that don't know what they are talking about and/or are paid to just say what they are told. Do I really need to list examples of politicians, pundits, and news anchors that do this constantly? And are you really trying to suggest that military service in general can't give people a chance to make something of themselves? It isn't the only way. But to dismiss it entirely because some have used it as part of propaganda is absurd. As for the anti "intellectualism" in the book/movie. Just because you have a piece of paper that says you went to a class doesn't mean you understand what you studied. Or that you're qualified to lead or make policy decisions on behalf of anyone. You feel free to blindly trust a degree. I'm gonna go with someone who's been busting their ass to get things done. Yes the failing Sky Marshal resigns in the face of defeat. Yeah I remember reading in history class about all the fascist tyrants that willingly stepped aside when their plains failed. How about that time when Hitler resigned after the eastern and western fronts started getting pushed back towards Germany. Oh wait that didn't happen. Cause fascist governments don't do that. If you demand a the failing leader step down. You get shot. The reason why they made Zim take a demotion to see combat was the value of his skills. The ability and experience needed to train very capable soldiers is a highly valued skill. Soldiers die in combat. Those soldiers need to be replaced. The ability to field capable replacements can mean the difference between survival and higher death tolls. So they made him choose wisely. Also the military can't be run like a democracy. It requires a clear chain of command that you serve at the whims of. That said his reason isn't just about killing bugs. His experience would be valuable on the battlefield to keeping soldiers alive. He'd probably be back to NCO quick. Then there is the mood of the soldiers. They don't seem so broken up because there are time skips. One would assume they mourned. But when fighting starts they kind of have to focus. Cause you know that whole death thing. The celebrating is mostly to break the tension and repetition of combat. What do you expect them to do. Go all dramatic and emo? Constant pressure with no release valve? A lot of what you see is bravado, support, and morale. It isn't that they are happy to be in a war zone. It's that if you stay too long in a dark place. Bad things follow. It's important to note that the only reason there are any fascistic undertones at all it's because the director *inserted* it into the story. A story he didn't even read or study. He had someone else do his homework for him and read him the bullet points. He then filled in the gaps between those bullet points. This is the biggest nail in the fascism claim. The movie has an air of fascism but the root still shines through. Because the root of it isn't fascistic at all. Heinlein was nothing of the sort. Nor did he promote fascism. In fact, Verhoeven was twisting it for *his* propaganda purposes.
I just want to add: In the book it is explicit that you do not have to go into the military, you just have to serve the state for a period of time. The state must allow any willing civilian to earn their vote, even if they are severely disabled. I also think people were exempt for religious and cultural reasons. The military is a 100% voluntary organisation, and not the only way to gain the vote
In terms of the film (which this video essay is talking about) both the script writer and director used Starship Troopers to explore fascism. They have explicitly said as much in interviews. There is no propaganda - Verhoeven originally wanted to make a film about "youth joining the nazi party in 1935 before they realized it was fascist" - but it was considered to risqué for hollywood. And so 5 years later Edward Nuemeier and Paul Verhoeven used this setting to do it instead. Saying that the film/directors intent is propaganda because it explores different themes from the book it was based on, is like saying that Blade Runner is replicant/android propaganda for exploring the idea that Deckard might be one (which is a thing the novel "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" NEVER even implied or suggested) i.e. ridiculous. It's rather the contrary actually... the director originally wanted it to be played straight down the middle, and not lean into nazi fashion/uniform, only using the speech and iconography of fascism. But after discussions about how viewers might not pick up on what they were depicting, they had NPH wear the uniform. Sure we can discuss if authorial intent is important or comes across when analyzing film (whether it's the intent of the book or film author) but to suggest that the only fascist thing in this movie is the dressing is discounting large portions of dialogue, iconography and ideology that the film explores.
There's something so funny about you unironically write this. You took all the points that were meant to be propaganda at face value. For example "bugs are communists" is referencing people like Pinochet who used "they communists" as an excuse for killing the people who opposed him
More importantly , this is a discussion of the movie whatever the book said doesnt matter , people saying that the director didnt read the book as a criticism
@02:30, wow. Just wow. Hometown destroyed, all close family dead. Why does main character, suddenly become motivated to fight in war???? It boggles the mind!
I think the point is he seems extremely gung-ho about it. We never see any kind of long reflection, and the viciousness of the main character that *would* be present is instead a sense of duty and patriotism.
@@moredetonation3755 His sense of duty is at the beginning where he volunteers despite discouragement from his professor (via father/son dialog), his father, the recruiter, and his Drill Sergeant. He loses his sense of duty when he fails protocol during the live fire exercise, even after accepting administrative punishment. He has already quit the service and is about to leave until the news hits that BA is destroyed alone with his family. Only then does he request to return even after signing his resignation. He informs his superiors he was from BA and that his family and home were in BA. His superiors understand Rico doesn't have a family nor home he can go back to anymore after his resignation. So, they break military protocol despite the possible legal repercussions against them for doing so. This decision to come back isn't as much out of a sense of duty, but the military where his friends are is the only family any of them have left. Dizzy and Rico are obviously distraught over the news and Rice asks Carmen if she ever thinks about home and if she knew anyone that made it out alive. Even though they are short moments, there's not really much time in the film with its back-to-backdeployments to dwell on it. This is typically the response during active deployment operations. There's too many important things going on to morn. The sense of duty will still be there of course, but at the end of the film it highlights the remaining friends from BA before their next deployment. There is no end of the war in sight as the bugs will never stop till humanity is eradicated from the galaxy. So, I have to disagree with everything this guy says about the film. I think it is him, by popular opinion, that he watches the film through a set of rose colored fascist glasses. Not for what's actually happening.
In the movie we are shown that the media is pretty transparent with regards to the utter disaster of the assault on Klendathu and they even go as far as to publicly elect a new sky Marshall because of said disaster. I can not imagine for the life of me seeing a fascist regime own up to its own military mistakes like that.
The military council that ruled Argentina in the 80s often switched it's main commander in response to their bumbling mistakes. Doesn't means the average civilian (not Citizen) has any voice in it.
@@Ephsy Don't forget what happened to Rico either. Instead of facing a military trial or simply being drummed out they made an example out of him. For his failures they publically humiliated him via torture - torture that was mandatory viewing for the military personnel on base, not unlike the public executions mentioned earlier in the film. Rico didn't even face an actual military trial because that isn't what they care about. They care most about the appearance of strength and will reinforce that through superficial means.
Martin Mortyry, it was completely innocuous. I don’t remember word-for-word, but it was something about how Starship Troopers takes place in a Democratic society, and that Robert Heinlein was a Libertarian.
As long as "the vote" actually MEANS SOMETHING (i.e. you have a REAL choice) it isnt fascist ... and getting the right to vote was the reason for the whole story. In a fascist system there is no choice ... same with a communist one. I have lived in West-Berlin since the early 70s, next to the commies in the GDR, and it was pretty clear that, even though there were several political parties, none of the non-commies would ever have any power and shortly before the fall of the wall they were even proven to be lying about the voting results.
"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." - Robert A. Heinlein
@@gert-janroodehal7368 If what I'm about to say comes off as a bit brash, I apologize, but I don't think that word means what you think it means... As defined by Merriam-Websters, Fascism - a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above *the* *individual* and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition. Fascism is a new kind of right-wing socialism that emerged based on nationalism. In the doctrine of fascism, Mussolini explains that the 20th century was to be the century of the state. A fascist society forces its population to be wards of the state, from the cradle to the grave. So, no... "I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do." Doesn't sound fascist... If that's the word you would use to describe that quote, then I believe you have a gross misunderstanding of the word itself. Comparing that quote to fascism is like comparing your statement to a well thought out detailed argument. Get it? Because your statement was none of those things; not well thought out, detailed nor even an argument. Heinlein's quote tells you, that you are the highest moral authority in your life and you should act like it. You know right from wrong and you should, through right action, demonstrate this to others. The philosophy Heinlein was trying to transmit was one of personal empowerment & self-improvement, limited government and noble self-sacrifice. Which are essentially the ideas Jordan Peterson is trying to put across. Here, let me reword that quote so it actually does sound fascist, I exist to serve the state. If I find the states rules to be tolerable I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I will still obey. I am free because the state tells me I am free. The Starship Troopers universe is, essentially, a libertarian power fantasy, not a fascist one. It's okay to not agree with something, like that quote, but you can't just blatantly label everything you personally disagree with as "Fascist." Otherwise the word eventually breaks down and loses all meaning. Again, I apologize for this long winded bloated response.
@@LordVVar I'm sorry I was being ironic. Heinlein is indeed the opposite of a fascist and your quote clearly proves so. I'm suprised to see DreamPioneer up there actually equating doing what you want with fascism. A.k.a: freedom is fascism. Now THAT is something a real fascist would say.
Or maybe it was a natural asteroid and the Federation just claimed Bug aggression. I mean lobbing an asteroid across the entire galaxy with enough precision to hit earth seems unlikely.
@@TimTYT Well that theory was destroyed when the Bugs literally do a counter attack when the humans were invading. Remember when Rico goes missing because of the failed invasion? Hell, Zander and Carmen's characters are held prisoner for the Brain bug could suck their brains out for information. Why do people act like they never seen the movie and assume the Federation is lying?
@@TimTYT Well then provide me evidence on how its a "Natural asteroid" and not the bugs actually sending them. Because I'm just providing on how smart the bugs are. Smart enough to send asteroid filled with bugs to earth. the burden of proof is on you to prove your theory. Get it now?
This is probably my favorite movie. When this came out I understood it to be clearly a satire of fascism, not pro fascism in any way. No one has been more surprised at some peoples take at it being pro fascism than Paul Verhoeven. That's "idiotic" as he likes to put it.
@Han Lockhart I'm talking about the movie, the book is written by a militaristic right wing author, that's not the type of person who would write a metaphor on racism
The book is pretty much a camouflage suit the actual movie content wears to sell the movie past the studio people. Dumb scifi action flick and with Henlein connection, SOLD. movie plot underneath: That sheep cloth worked perfectly, now lets blow the audiences minds.
According to Marine Corps lore, Daly rallied his men at the Battle of Belleau Wood by yelling, "Come on, you sons-o'-bitches, do you want to live forever?" This quote first appeared in And They Thought We Wouldn't Fight, a 1918 memoir by war correspondent Floyd Gibbons of The Chicago Tribune.
Isn't Starship Troopers just an extreme libertarian meritocracy? Nobody gets forced into doing anything they don't want to, they just get heavily incentivised and rewarded for competency.
they arnt really interested in merit though, two people doing the same job will be rewarded equally regardless of how well they do it, the requirement is commitment not competence (not counting the SS guys) it breaks down to a binary, there are those that do fight and those that dont, citizens and civilians hell the only reason Johnny gets promoted is because people above him get killed, if the film had been 30mins longer he'd be a general by the end of the movie
@@stevenr6397 How did you come to this conclusion? Johnny gets both promoted and demoted in the beginning solely based on merit (for being the best leader and later for getting someone killed). Later the sky marshal gets demoted because he fucked up. I don't know which movie you watched, but it surely wasn't Verhoevens Star Ship Troopers.
@@Unit-kp8wm mainly because he only gets promoted when either ace abdicates responsibility or someone dies, yes he gets demoted for being screwing up but promotions just go to the next in line or whoever is near by
No. In fact, in the book history, meritocracy was tried and failed. It's not about ability or intelligence. It's about emotions. It's about caring more for others than yourself. His central point is that people who put the rest of society first make better voters and leaders. I.e. people who put themselves first do not make better voters and leaders.
@@nickschmidt7663 Except Earth was lied into the war. Klendathu was the arachnid's home planet, and the ONLY place Earth was attacking. Earth was invading the bugs. The bugs didn't have interstellar travel, so just exactly did they manage to drop an asteroid on Buenos Ares? Well, they didn't, either it was an accident that Earth used for propaganda purposes, or it was an outright false flag. Every human being in the film is nothing more than a commodity so people are purposely sent to their deaths, and the war isn't even necessary. If Earth doesn't want to be bothered by the bugs, they could just leave Klendathu - that's not even presented in the film as a possibility ONCE. This film was a satire on US foreign policy, done before the 2nd Iraq war based on Operation Desert Storm, Grenada, Bosnia, Serbia, Vietnam, etc. George W. Bush then lied to us about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Then Obama lied about Qaddafi "causing a humanitarian crisis" and "Assad gassing his people". We get lied to all the time. Russian Collusion was a lie. Our last election was a lie. Heck, I think at this point there's quite a bit of compelling evidence to suggest 9/11 was an internal false flag to do what PNAC wanted, and that was 100 years of war. This film really is a bit of genius because it's almost prescient. It's off topic, but I think it's funny that so many morons were screaming the Orange Man was a Nazi, when in fact, the US has been run by Nazis since at least 2000. Probably since George H. Bush became president in 1988. Clinton was swell friends with the Bush family when he was running cocaine through Arkansas for the CIA during the 1980s. Gary Webb did a book on that called Dark Alliances, then he killed himself a decade later, but shooting himself in the head, twice.
@@usamwhambam Me? Have you seen what Paul Verhoeven has stated about the film? This is the same guy that made Robocop. Starship Troopers is CLEARLY a satire. ruclips.net/video/0QotxGy4CKk/видео.html You're missing it out if you don't see the film for what it was intended to be. This is a deeply dark comedy. Starship Troopers is one of the most BRUTAL satires on film.
The fascist imagery in Starship Troopers was noticed immediately by the film's critics upon release. Also the "Would you like to know more?" trope was mimicking Microsoft's slogan at the time "Where do you want to go today?"
@@coreygarris9390 Give an example of how Starship Troopers is fascist without referencing the uniforms or the sentence about how Germany won WW2 in the beginning.
@Game james You are not free to choose the direction of the state, i.e. you have no franchise unless you serve in the military. Of course peeps like you dont bother to vote, so dont value it as a freedom, when in fact its your single most important one.
In order to make the state in Starship Troopers appealing they had to take several things on what a fascist state really his. Propaganda was done in every countries in WW2. Making enemy repulsive was common. Militarist society is common in a lot of regime. Neither you nor the film really understand what fascism really his I think.
The film was never intended to be a propaganda piece for or against fascism tho. it just borrowed uniform designs to a certain extent and that is all. I think the film has a much better understanding of what fascism is then whoever made the script for this video.
@@Muck006 If he actually tried then I have no idea how. Other then the uniforms nothing about their society is resembling of a fascist society at all. I mean in terms of things that aren't normal in any society that is at war.
Alias Z50 Every military does that? Ever seen a US army add “make life long friendships, and learn what it means to be part of something bigger than yourself!”
"Johnny winds up a high-ranking leader in the war effort." He winds up a first lieutenant. This is the second-lowest rank of commissioned officer. He is high-ranking only in the sense that the movie focused on a single platoon, which he ends up commanding. In the modern US military, a kid who finishes college and then enters the military and becomes an infantry officer gets to that rank in about 2-3 years. Someone with a specialized skill who is directly commissioned, like a physician, can skip that rank entirely just for signing up, entering as a captain.
Texas Patriot ^ I was about to say that. ROTC and Service Academies lead to direct commissions upon graduation and completion of the program. Even OCS is only a few months to my knowledge, less than a year.
@@cynicaltexan9639 He ends a 1st Lt, not a 2nd Lt. To avoid a lengthy explanation of the difference between butterbars and 1st loueys, I kept it simplified, since it's obvious that the Wisecrack team has less military background than a group of whiny Warhammer players.
Doctor's especially must be of high rank, because medical orders outweigh almost everything else. A four star general could order you to do 50 push-ups, but if a doctor says "No". Then that's the final thing said on the matter. (Doesn't always work like that, but it is supposed to).
it's like the same future lol. in fact the movie is like ahead of it's time. All you have to do is superimpose this film and 9/11 and on and yeah you get the picture.
I didn't like the book compared to the movie. All the characters were flat, the narrator doesn't really go into much detail about what they do, if he likes them, how he thinks they feel, etc. so I didn't care about them that much. He goes on with the philosophy of how great violence and punishment are, but the story doesn't really reflect that. All the violence and punishment doesn't accomplish much, beyond killing people and bugs. By the end of the story they were trying to capture and study the bugs to learn more about them, so just shooting at the problem clearly wasn't working. The parts about aliens weren't well described or very exciting to me.
Sorcerer's Apprentice darn. Well the concept of how violence is applied and it’s relation to voting 🗳 were my favorites. More emphasis on big vision of human nature I think. Oh well. Glad you at least read it. I sadly feel society will continue to go downward unless we get serious about crime and punishment.
@@deaddropsd1972 America has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world. if punishment alone worked, then America would be the safest country in the world. If people commit crimes due to issues like drug addiction and mental illness, then programs like addiction counselling and public health care would be more effective than punishment. Heinlen's own militarism turned out to be dead wrong in both the story and real life. In his view, communists were the same as insects - disgusting creatures that were technologically inferior and literally dehumanized. If violence and punishment were the best solutions, than the protagonist could have just shot everything and the problem would be solved, instead they needed science. He thought the Cold War would only end in WWIII, with the might of the American Army to save the day. It ended with civil unrest and public protest throughout Eastern Europe after Heinlen's death, because the people living there hated repression.
Sorcerer's Apprentice physical punishment. Caning like Singapore 🇸🇬. Cleaner streets. Draconian. Yes I know but still what I wish for. Robbery. Whipping. Murder - hanging. I think we overthink things. We have gone to far towards “rights”. No mention of “duty”. Kids get abducted. Murdered. Criminals get incarcerated. Repeat. I am 10000% for mental health hospitalization, rehabilitation. Universal healthcare. However when a man kidnaps or murders anyone- swift death 💀 penalty. Tolerance of these crimes just encourages worse. Alternative, is just keep doing what we are doing...
It needs one first What you’re asking may as well be, ‘do the trans philosophy of Alice in wonderland” You could do it but you have to impose almost all of it and force it out of the work There’s actually interesting work out there hopefully they focus on instead
I would love to see a Wisecrack episode on The Golden Girls. I grew up with that show, and I'm happy to see it's had a resurgence of popularity among young people. It started with Betty White Memes and remained because of the shows progressive humor.
Starship Troopers was a satire, just like Robocop. In Starship Troopers the character (Rico) embraces the system and becomes part of it, but in Robocop he rebels and fights against the system.
Alright I don’t want to go conspiratorial but I can’t find a pertinent comment that perfectly incapsulated the biggest problem with this video. I hope it’s just the comment algorithm being funny and not the comment being deleted, but just to be sure I will repeat that comment (sorry if the original is still there and I simply can’t find it): You confused Fascism with militarism, and militarism with having an army.
It looks like they purged the comments of dissenters. I saw what you said echoed a hundred times the last time I checked these comments, but then I don't see any of them now.
deadly TRIFORCE those are not my standards, look up the definition of Fascism. Militarism and fascism aren’t the same thing, even though fascism has militaristic aspects. Also it can be said that the movie doesn’t have a militaristic vibe since the war the characters are fighting is a defensive war against a violent and powerful enemy that attacked unsolicitedly killing millions of civilians.
My guy, their are literally people in the movie who are GENETICALLY SUPERIOR and happen to wear SS uniforms. Whoever the author of that comment is doesn't know much about fascism.
I managed to ignite ants nest on the yard of my kindergarten using magnifying glass and when they asked me why did i do that? I answered Only good bug is a dead bug!. My dad had answer some questions to a child protection officials. He still reminds me of it to this day.
i love how the video starts contradicting itself by the end. "sure it seems like an open society with full freedom of choice, speech, accountable gov and full gender and racial equality, but thats just how the fash lure you in." lol
Road it is a contradiction because fascism doesn’t allow freedom of choice, opinion, speech, and voluntary enrolment like Starship Troopers’ society does.
@Natasel What you've outlined has absolutely nothing to do with what is shown in the movie... you're contradicting the lore of the film and what we are shown.
I saw this after 9/11 when I was 14 and I honestly thought it was celebrating the US invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. Obviously that's impossible because the movie came out in 1997, but looking back I still see more similarities with US triumphalism than German Fascism.
That’s because the bugs are the fascists. The humans have a democratic style government with freedom. The only difference is the suffrage has to be earned in some way.
Militarism is a core aspect of fascism, and the military-industrial complex sure has a huge influence on US foreign policy. I'm not saying the USA is a fascist state, but some of the markers of fascism are present (The Pledge of Allegiance, post-9/11 surveillance, militarisation of the police...)
it's not? I mean ed neumeier said it was about cultural fascism, and he said affirmative action and political correctness was a part of that @@robertmartin6800
Basically what you are saying is “if you take away all the tenants of fascism (oppression, all powerful state, restrictions on freedom, racism, dictatorship etc.) then fascism looks pretty sexy.” So the way you make fascism look good is by making it not fascism? I mean... you’re not wrong. But I think you are mistaking iconography for ideology.
realistically when people think the state is good and you're following main characters that the state wants to promote then it does look good as it did for young average German men but if you look at anyone the state doesn't like then it's the opposite
@@jacksteel1539 You mean we should see the side of literal genocidal hive-minded bugs? I think you forgot that the original book was written by a US Naval Officer, But the actual fascists that are represented today and during WW2 in the same way as the bug were showed in the movie and in the book. This video argumentation is so flawed that it breaks itself showing scenes from the movie that proves the exact opposite of the "pro-facism" argument.
Lines like a 7:03 make this very obviously an anti-fascist movie. The only puzzling thing is how people see scenes like that one and the one at 8:30 and go "yep, that's pro-fascism alright". HOW?!
ST is clearly a satire of Henleins work as BioShock is clearly a satire of Ayn Rand. P. Verhoeven even started as a military propaganda movie director - although Henlein himself wasnt a fascist, nor an objectivist, Verhoeven used his world to satire his own personal view on heavy military politics, Henleins book is too different in themes its conveying and the ways they are being executed to consider them to be a manual for Verhoeven to utilize. What the movie tries to show Is the bug/hivemind mentality of both humans AND bugs or any highly organized social communities where individualism has to make a room for one goal/or the rulling class wishes (ant queens, Brainbugs, military leaders).
Which is hilarious as Voerhooven *never read the book* and in the book, military service only maeks 5% of the Federal Service job. Everything else is civil job, like being scientist, janitor, fire fighter, terraforming work on Venus, etc. Book places heavy emphasis on *individuals* decision and their ability to do things. Federation is ruled by an elected council made of Citizens who, as I stated, could be janitors or scientists. No need for military jobs. Furthermore, civilians have the same rights as Citizens, with only difference between two being that civilian has not proven that he values group over individual, and thus is not granted right to vote. Yet, a civilian can at any point volunteer for the Federal Service, as is their right, and Federation can not deny them this right.
@@Mandemon1990 Why is that it hilarious? The director wanted to explore fascist themes and did so through a movie that was based on a book. Also why would he need to read the book? It was the script writer that brought it to him/adapted it. Having opinions about an adaption and change of themes is one thing. But come on, Blade Runner strays HEAVILY from the source material - a lot of amazing films do - and just because the novel Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep doesn't at all explore Deckard potentially being a replicant/android that doesn't in any way prove that the film doesn't. Same goes for Starship Troopers. Edward Nuemeier and Paul Verhoeven explored fascist themes in the film regardless of what Heinlein originally intended with his book.
i really wish people would stop comparing the book to the movie. they're two different beasts with two different messages. nevermind the reasons why verhoeven went ahead and didn't read the book, that's a typical trope of theater going back centuries. hell, shakespeare did the same thing with his plays: took an old play, reworked it into his style, changed its message and boom! new play! romeo and juliet is nothing more than a different take on the comedia del'arte's romeo i giulietta. the original does not have the moralistic approach to teenage sex metaphorically destroying lives, and that's just one example. both works of theater are still studied today. let's give starship troopers the same treatment.
@@eddyguizonde401 absolutely agree! As for why Verhoeven didn't read the book - why would he? I really don't understand this as a criticism of Starship Troopers or his abilities as a director. Edward Neumeier, the script writer, originally penned the story under a different name - and it was always more of a reaction to Heinlein's book than an outright adaption. Verhoeven had earlier talked with Neumeier about wanting to direct a story about "youth that join the nazi party in 1935 before they realize it's fascist" but it was considered too risqué for Hollywood until making it into a scifi became a viable solution. I don't ever think Verhoeven was particularly interest in the book, it's setting just functioned as a good frame work to explore the themes of fascism that interested him (given that the script writer was familiar with the book I don't see why it would be an issue). And like you pointed out - exploring different themes in new adaptions is quite a common literary device. And also in films. I've used the comparison between Blade Runner and Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep in other comment threads - but it genuinely is a similar situation. Philip K Dick explores themes of empathy and humanity - but never in the book is it suggested or even implied that Deckard could be an android/replicant... that is a theme that was introduced in the film and only exists there. Does that make the film worse or wrong for exploring themes that wasn't there in the source material?? I don't think so. And I don't think anyone would argue it either. But for some reason Starship Trooper is not afforded the same kind of treatment. And I think we know why. It makes me think about how Edward Neumeier said in an interview that he realized that quite a few people didn't like the scene at the end in ST because of what it was actually saying. I reckon the people defending Starship Troopers in-film ideologies and saying it's not fascist feel similarly betrayed that the film is actually a satire of fascism.
The fact that someone like Rico has the individual right to decide and define what he wants to do with his life flies in the face of the idea that this is a fascist society as Mussolini said "The keystone of the Fascist doctrine is its conception of the State, of its essence, its functions, and its aims. For Fascism the State is absolute, individuals and groups relative." if this was a fascist society Rico would not have a say in his own life because the state would decide for him. Also no fascist regime would show itself failing completely at fighting it's enemy like the federation does.
@Shwagg Krumb Yes but the scapegoat is part of the government thereby making the government look like it's at fault even if it's just partially which no fascist government would allow. Also Hitler was a nazi not a fascist there is actually a difference between the two even if they are very similar.
@Exxperiment626 the marines are not fascist: Fascism: noun A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government. Oppressive, dictatorial control. .... The marines are well trained professional soldiers loyal to the constitution who protect your democracy. ... Joke #1 Ask the Army to secure a building and they will set up a perimeter around it and make sure nobody gets out. Ask the Marines to secure a building and they will charge in, kill everybody inside, and then set up defenses to make sure nobody gets in. Ask the Navy to secure a building and they will turn off all the lights and lock all the doors at 1700. Ask the Air Force to secure a building and they will sign a 10 year lease with an option to buy.
dude I remember watching this movie when I was like 11 or 12 and after I saw them tattoing their arms with "Death" I went to the bathroom and wrote "Death" on my upper arm with a pencil HAHAHAHAH
A society which valorizes military service and fighting a foreign enemy is not unique to fascism. It can be found in practically every society throughout history. The idea that political force is violence is not unique to fascism either. Political scientists routinely define government as an institution with a monopoly on the legitimate use of violence. If the goal of the goal of the federation is genocide against the bugs, then that might just be a legitimate goal. The bugs are presented as a serious existential threat to humanity. Philosopher Ken Wilber in his book “A Theory for Everything” details a full spectrum of different societal values from the Nationalistic and Militaristic to the Globalist and Humanitarian. He states that the mistake people have made throughout history is thinking of these values in stark, dualistic, good/bad morality. When it is best to see these values as having their time and place. In the face of a serious existential threat Nationalism and Militarism are not bad things, but in a time of peace they cause more harm then good.
@@davidgarrido8363 I have, many times. They don't listen. They just keep on going hungry and letting foreigners run roughshod over them, in the name of some perceived virtue. It's basically masochism.
@@fubaralakbar6800 Well, I AM from europe, were we have free healthcare system, less infant mortality, less homeless people, less famine and crimes and so on. We have our flaws of course, but I don't think that socialism is one
@@davidgarrido8363 If you truly would be from Europe, you would know that we have anything but surely no socialism. That's just some mind fart made popular by ignorant U.S. left-wingers. The only major difference between the U.S. and many European countries is that the latter force you to own healthcare insurance (aka "free healthcare"). That's it.
Here Wisecrack asserts that the characteristics found in all modern civilizations which are also represented in Starship Troopers are exclusively inherent to Fascist civilization. Wisecrack's analysis is wrong on so many levels.
Indeed, I think part of the point of the film is that the U.S. military has plenty of fascist ideology / imagery. Look at the dehumanization of the Vietnamese during that war, or the Iraqis during Iraq War I...
@Führer des Benutzers Certainly, it's not *unique* to fascism. But fascism *modernized* it, using eugenics and other racist pseudoscience to make the concept of a "master race" a seemingly non-religious fact. It's easier to demonize and kill an "enemy," even a vulnerable, internal one, if you don't think they are the same species of animal as you.
In Austria, Finnland, and many other nations, men are forced to do service, by law. Their citizenship is not a privilege granted for voluntary service. It's an obligation put upon us by the state. There's *_no way_* in which the Troopers government is more fascist than mine. In fact, by that logic, mine is much more fascist. It is not actually fascist, though, and neither is the one in this movie. Fascists don't let the entire business community opt out of their "civic duty" and become rich, have a grat life, while not controlling the economy at all. Fascists don't let you have a choice. Fascists don't treat everyobdy according to their merit and service, rather than to their inborn characteristics. Calling this fascism is a completely ridiculous whitewashing of actual fascism. If the Troopers government were fascist, then fascism would be a good thing. *_It is not fascist._*
Well, uh... under what definition of fascism? The only thing people seem to agree on in these comments is that fascism isn't well defined and that this isn't an example of it. But what does it mean to say that X is NOT Y, if we don't know what we're referring to as Y? Well, it turns out Wisecrack thought about this, and so they read out and cited the sources for what they would be referring to as "fascism". You've applied your list of several hyperspecific and vague requirements for a body to be considered "fascist" to their use of the word, which is blatant misrepresentation or a misunderstanding of their use (but again... they did specifically explain what its use would be referring to). I suppose you're free to disagree with the definitions they presented (though it's not like you'd be disagreeing with Wisecrack, since they aren't the originators), but it seems to me like they did a decent job of providing the specific evidence necessary to satisfy the definition that THEY PRESENTED (though perhaps not the one you'd prefer they use and that sits abstractly in your mind).
@@DavidHackGomez95 To give the shortest, still correct definition of 'fascism': The worship of state power to the detriment of the individual. The Federation is the total opposite.
the federation is not the opposite of fascism, the military drill, the pursuit of "the general good" over individuality as a pseudo-argument, from the characteristics: it is pretty clear that starship trooper is a satire on fascist, militaristic states. the "bugs" are literally a de-humanization of the enemy. the advertisement like style of the military press is also a ironic nod to how easy it is to advertise war, as was done in america (think the golf wars) as something good and right, so that the whole population chimes in. His dad in the beginning urging him to be more self-oriented (individualistic) by furthering his education instead as being wasted as cannon fodder fell on deaf ears. it couldn't be more obvious. I'm sorry, but you are wrong. And I don't think that the mandatory service in real countries has something to do with it either or can be hold as a case that we are "more fascistic". Yes, you are forced to participate, but after you have done your basic training, you are free to leave. you will be called in again in the case of war anyway, but just if your country is attacked. I bet that goes for all countries, even if you didn't serve. For mission in other war zones, usually you have to volunteer or be selected. Also, the rest of the public isn't forced into the military or can choose careers outside. Same with starship troopers, the society is more or less free and mirrors our own, racial and gender differences seem a thing of the past, but all this equality is in the face of war: all are equal before the military, so they can serve as good, mindless drones without individuality, hell their individuality is even used to find their best place in the forces. But it is made sure that society furthers the military and makes them in general positive towards the war (the lessons about the bug biology with their racial connotations, kids getting taught to have fun squiching bugs), dismissing people who suggest to try to communicate with the bugs and so on. well, i just repeat wisecracks video at this point. watch again and try to understand.
@@noimnotnice the only "correct" definition of the word "fascism" we can use when analyzing this text is the definition provided to us by the text. Since it is the elaboration of what intellectual entity the word would be referring to in its use of it. Jared established what he meant when he said it, and then mostly convinced me in the text that the federation satisfied it. Notice Jared never made "worship of state power" part of the working definition, so that is still an incorrect definition to use. It's as if someone proclaimed "when I say 'dog' I will be referring to a four legged canine. See, this animal has four legs and is a canine, so is a dog" and then someone responded "THAT'S NOT A DOG, DOGS HAVE 5 LEGS!"
Very good analysis of the film-but Verhoeven's interpretation of the film was 100% the opposite of Heinlein's novel. I enjoyed the film-it was so chock full of absurdities it was funny.
22 years and people still debate whether this film is satire.
The mark of truly great satire
Great satire indeed. ST has satire written all over the place yet it is well hidden by trying to be super serious. Life of Brian is another great example. Narrow minded squares rallied against a movie showing how narrow minded squares think and act.
@peter Maybe the sequels and spin offs added somewhat to the first movie's reception being an action flick. The political satire was toned down in favor of action and or let's call it horror and spiritual elements like the god bug. Expanding the crazy universe established in ST 1 did not work to well - my opinion.
@@phreakazoith2237 So it is to be expected, then, that individuals that tend to favor authoritarian, militaristic or police state regimes that target specific groups of people as "the enemy" (with themselves as the privileged ones, of course) would take issue with the analysis of this film.
Rumor has it that they chose the main cast of actors based solely on their looks as they are all exceptionally good looking but poor acting abilities in order to make them seem soulless or brainwashed.
@peter well, when I watched ST as a kid for me it was "kick-ass action" movie. I was really surprised after watching this movie as adult.
Helldivers just resurrected this entire theme.
It's fucking wild that this whole discourse is back even more absurd than previously...
FOR LIBERTY AND DEMOCRACYYY!!!!
@@frogboiii03 y ou can only pick one
I’m still ready to engage with commies who never read the book. I’m doing my part.
@@guillermoelnino with that attitude, sure
Are you a collaborator with the bugs?.. seems like it.
DO YOU WANT TO KNOW MORE?
@Esben M *do not
Esben M well then. Tell us what movie means? I’m quite curious.
The Do You Want To Know More advertising is the only element of satire I actually saw in this. That was quite funny (and annoying). To those making the case this is a satire that is the most satirical point of the film. They didn't seem to have any progress with that element. It's not like it got better or worse or changed through the film.
Noone see the desert storm satire here? Seriously?
@@heartless604 We're supposed to forget all the promises made in war and just keep paying to send poor kids off to fight them
"These bugs are unintligent" "these bugs threw a meteor at beunos aires"
Sounds like 1984 and shit....
it was hinted it was actually not sent by the bugs but actually a fake by the earth government to "have a reason" to go to war
no need to destroy buenos aires, argentinians are doing a fine job without any alien help
@@Martel_Clips But meteors have already been known to come out of the AQZ, and the starship Carmen is on was hit by a mentor going towards Earth. The same starship had no communications to warn Earth. To top it all off, Rico lost transmission with his parents on the video call. The meteor was real.
Yeah but who told us that the aliens are known to launch rocks? Is that source trustworthy?
Starship Troopers taught me that Dina Meyer is really hot
No dude. It's all about dat Casper Van Dien hahaha
yum yum yum.. ;)
Hell YES! especially when she was batgirl.
She has held up amazingly well. Hasn't hit the wall just yet.
On the contrary Denise Richards (a beautiful woman nonetheless) is portrayed as a total b***h! I mean If I was Rico I'd choose Dizzy from day 1 (or even -1). Then of course we wouldn't have this movie as neither would have joined the army :)
FRANKLY I FIND THE IDEA OF A BUG SYMPATHIZER OFFENSIVE!
That's buggist!
@@siresorb1419 KNOW YOUR MOVIE QUOTES
To defeat the bug we must understand the bug
And a sympathiser of the bugs which are clearly fascist at that. Flipping hilarious.
Dont let tge bugs steal our jobs
Starship troopers: 100,000 dead in one hour
Warhammer 40k: hold my beer
Christopher K
40K: Million dead in one hour at a campaign’s start... and it gets...grim, from there
WH40K:
- Sir, we managed to capture the planet.
- How many men did we loose?
- Around one million, sir.
- *slamms fist into the table* BY THE EMPEROR! MINIMAL CASULTIES!
Drowning the enemy in your soldiers blood, is a validate tactic.
@@HonestHappyHater Well to be fair, only one million casualties for capturing an entire planet isn't too bad.
@@TheGodEmperorOfMankind_
Well, no, it isn't.
Especialy if for every fallen 10 more shall take his place
RUclips: "Sees title"
_demonetized_
How are u here so early man.
OF
the dude he’s subscribed to wisecrack....
Damn.
Never thought I'd find you here...
Justin Y. LoL
*Clicks on video*
*Sees the like/dislike ration*
"This is where the fun begins"
cool that we still have ocmment section
Dislikes are from the people that read the book
Sees "ration"
This is where the funk begans
@@warblizarga there's no way that many people read that boring schlock.
@@yareyarejose5080 Boy, are you in for a shock, then.
3:23 _"The ideology espoused by authority figures within the Federation shares key components with basic fascist political philosophy"_
Shows a clip where Sgt. Zim says you can leave voluntarily at *any time* if it's too tough, unfair or if you just _"miss your mommy.."_
It's called reverse psychology, he says those things to emasculate him into staying.
ʀᴀᴡʙꜱᴋᴇ Yeah, but he can actually leave. Is Sean from Hot ones a Fascist because he taunts people into putting the last dab of hot sauce on their chicken wings?
@@realmatic10 careful now, that might start a thing with people against Hot One's, I'm still enjoying that show
@@Jynkowe nop, in the book they try to make you resing at any oportunity , read the book or watch this ruclips.net/video/kVpYvV0O7uI/видео.html
I bet a whole lot of Germans in Stalingrad would've been fond of that right.
The book had citizenship earned by any Federal service, even the disabled could earn citizenship through service. Also, they made sure that enlistees saw that the teachers, recruiters etc., were all disabled and prominently showed that they were missing limbs, were blinded etc., do they would know the risks.
The movie took liberties from the book. Nevertheless the film is a fun romp.
It wasn't originally based on the book. Verhoeven wrote an original script and somebody realized it was similar to Starship Troopers (which the studio had the rights to) so they sort of reverse adapted it to fit. That's why it has the "based on" feel.
@@timtheskeptic1147 Verhoeven says otherwise in his interviews. Mind you, he flips back and forth from interview to interview, soooooo...
@@Calbeck who knows? I imagine what goes through his head whenever the movie is brought up is how he really wanted to make it, how it turned out, and incredibly how nobody was seriously injured during filming (planet p and klendathu scenes were filmed in Rattlesnake Canyon, Utah. Its called that for a reason!)
You say that but there's a line from Rico's father about there being no war going on when Rico tells him he's interested in doing Federal Service that implies military enlistment is the expected and default form of the majority of what constitutes Federal Service.
@@SOMEGUY7893 in the book federal service covered a huge amount of things. It could range from MI to testing survival equipment on Pluto.
When one is analyzing the film Starship Troopers, one must keep in mind that while the movie is a satire the book is not. Heinlein had some serious criticisms of liberal democracy. He was not a fascist, but he definitely was of the belief that the right to vote should be earned not given. One might call him a Liberal Republicanist of a neo-Catonian outlook.
It should also be noted that in the book Starship Troopers service did not mean military service. There were plenty of non-military options for people who wanted to become citizens but did not want to fight.
*edited.
I agree with this, I"m 20 years old and I don't think I should be allowed to vote yet. I voted in 2016 and I think I made a mistake on my choice from then to now so. I think you should 1) Be at least age 25 and 2) Have some steak in the result of the election to vote. So must have no serious felony convictions, must pay taxes.
Like the right to decide how our country is run or who runs it shouldn't just be handed out because you survived to age 18. Most 18 year old are nothing but emotions and misinformation.
@@mikethewise2000 have you read Starship Troopers the book? Heinlein would probably argue that a criminal record would not bar one from voting provided the convicted perform penance and/or experience a punishment that corrects the anti-social behaviour in question.
The idea behind service means citizenship is that the person proactively participates in serving The Nation and in doing so develops an emotional investment in the wellbeing of The Nation.
orionstark That right there is fascistic and to treat it as anything less is just stupid.
@@Mabasei only if The Nation is an exclusive entity. Heinlein's Federation is an inclusive society where anyone capable of understanding the concept of service can earn their citizenship. It is implied in the books that citizenship is open to dogs as well as humans.
@@Mabasei How is that fascistic?
Heinlein Q&A
Q: Isn't the Government in Starship Troopers Militaristic?
A:
"Militaristic" is the adjective for the noun "militarism", a word of several definitions but not one of them can be correctly applied to the government described in this novel. No military or civil servant can vote or hold office until after he is discharged and is again a civilian. The military tend to be despised by most civilians and this is made explicit. A career military man is most unlikely ever to vote or hold office; he is more likely to be dead - and if he does live through it, he'll vote for the first time at 40 or older.
Q: But All of the Electorate Must be Veterans!
A:
The criticisms are usually based on a failure to understand simple indicative English sentences, couched in simple words...Their failures to understand English are usually these:
1. "Veteran" does not mean in English dictionaries or in this novel solely a person who has served in military forces. I concede that in commonest usage today it means a war veteran . . . but no one hesitates to speak of a veteran fireman or veteran school teacher. In STARSHIP TROOPERS it is stated flatly and more than once that nineteen out of twenty veterans are not military veterans. Instead, 95% of voters are what we call today "former members of federal civil service."
2. He/she can resign at any time other than during combat -- i.e. 100% of the time for 19 out of 20; 99%+ of the time for those in the military branches of federal service.
3. There is no conscription. (I am opposed to conscription for any reason at any time, war or peace, and have said so repeatedly in fiction, in nonfiction, from platforms, and in angry sessions in think tanks. I was sworn in first in 1923, and have not been off the hook since that time. My principle pride in my family is that I know of not one in over two centuries who was drafted; they all volunteered. But the draft is involuntary servitude, immoral, and unconstitutional no matter what the Supreme Court says.
- Robert Anson Heinlein, Afterword of "Who Are the Heirs of Patrick Henry?" in Expanded Universe, Ace Books 1980
You read the books, that puts you ahead of the director.
Man, this makes this whole "This is fascism!" debacle even sadder. Very few authors are as misrepresented as Heinlein, truly a shame and a loss.
@@DeePScharge because he advocates for socialism's worst enemy : meritocracy.
Well done for posting this, sir!
Minh Phan - Thanks for sharing this!
“You want to live forever” is a reference to something Frederick the Great is meant to have said at the battle of Kolín in 1757.
But they probably ripped it from Conan the Barbarian.
In the book the line "Come on you apes, do you want to live forever" is accredited to "marine platoon sergeant -1918. The man who actually said the line is Daniel Daly during the Battle of Belleau Wood, though the book misquotes him, as he actually said "Come on you sons of bitches..."
It goes back even further than that. "May you live forever" was one of the worst insults a Spartan could say to another.
@@trexlord1 It was intentional, the word "apes" is nickname the mobile infantry had based on the look of the heavy Armor they wear. making them look like big gorillas.
Looks like it worked.
I saw this movie as a young man and was so inspired by it I decided to join federal service and earn my citizenship! Then after 3 tours in Iraq killing bugs, I came home missing some limbs. The federation then retrained me to become a teacher and now I sit in a high school classroom sharing stories of my glorious military service to young impressionable minds...
You did your part i guess?
Are you ok?
He did his part
🤣🤣🤣
Hopefully you teach them Fascism controls the economy, unlike the Veterans in Starship Troopers.
Don't bullshit me wisecrack, how much are the bugs paying you?
A good bug is a dead bug!
@@cinhh Bugs Lives Matter ! BLM !
@@Irritandarts Bug Lives don't even matter to the Bugs
Those god damn bugs
It's not a bug, they're ruled by a gay black transgender disabled woman that identifies as a demi dragon
Something I like about this movie is how Rico and the soldiers at his Bootcamp are so ready to kill bugs and go to Klendathu and wipe them out. But as soon as they get there they just break and run showing that no one was truly ready for the horrors of the bugs.
Same goes for any war.
Tends to happen when you are trained in urban warfare against other humans and get send into what is basically the Battle of Waterloo against multi-limbed insects the size of Range Rovers.
Fun fact: they had a military expert that created a boot camp where he trained about 100 extras with real military training for two weeks. All the actors and extras that made up the Mobile Infantry took this boot camp. He also promoted 4 of the extras as squad leaders to create a military-like experience for all the extras. They had daily drills, marches, training courses, fire arms training AND they had to haul ass in full movie gear in scorching temperatures. But damn, that was worth it because all the scenes with the troopers running around and shooting were top notch.
@@mancamiatipoola Dale Dye.
Also: Platoon
Oliver Stone
They just had their families murdered and hoped for revenge. Young delusions of strength.
"Frankly I find the idea of a bug that thinks, offensive!"
- political climate 2019
but what... what if they have some kind of control unit... a .. brain bug of some sort?
@@johnfkennedy1019 you mean one bug controls the mass? COMMUNISM!
Our political climate is way more stupid
The political climate is closer to
"I'm going to get offended by someone getting offended by something online while claiming I'm tough"
Whoa there. Getting close to the curtain that's illegal to peek behind.
The Federation made the trains run on time.
Starship Troopers fans & Veterans!🕷I re-did the audiobook 📚 w sound 🔊 💥 effects and voice acting! 🎤 8 hrs. Please 🙏🏼listen 👂 and SHARE!!! FB page “Starship Troopers the book”
ruclips.net/video/zwFMszIVGko/видео.html
deaddropsd1972 so cringe
@@deaddropsd1972 shut the fuck up
finally changed my profile pic why?
finally changed my profile pic No thanks. I’m just promoting a project of mine it’s no big deal it’s not like I’m making any money off it
I'm here for the comments.
I wasn't disappointed.
So can you sum up why slot of people hate this video and some don't?
So much edgy-ness!
@@aliwahab1255 Because it's a youtube video criticizing fascism... Are you new to youtube? The comments are always full of far-right people
@@PrometheusLKR Starship Troopers has nothing to do with facism. The director of Starship Troopers and this hack, who never read the book, want it to be about fascism.
I was. Its just people arguing over the definition of facism. Hilarious.
Most of the Starship Troopers is Facist criticism is based on the misconception that citizenship can only be earned through military service. It's actually civil service... the movie just focuses on military service b/c it a war story... And when you factor that in, well the whole fascism thing doesn't really hold water any more
WHAT ARE YOU SAYING!? That if they focused on the guy earning his citizenship cleaning poop in the sewers because he wasn't fit enough for military service wouldn't be a good war movie!? lol thumbs up.
And everyone is allowed to take the service, even if they are severely disabled, the state is responsible to create a job that they could do to earn citizenship.
@@xifel72 the way I understood it, it would still be in service of the military.
@@stefanfun That's because the director didn't read the book and left the other ways to gain citizenship out.
Even then it isn't fascism.
Klingons aren't a good example of a fascist society in Star Trek, they are more a feudal society that has baked in traditions around honour along the lines of feudal Japan. The Terran Empire is more explicitly a stand in for fascism as are the Cardassians and you could make a case for the Romulans.
The TOS Klingons -- from what we got to see of them -- were more fashy than feudal. But then again, those Klingons didn't have crinkly heads, so do they even really count?
I always thought they were like Genghis Khan - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ogadai_Khan.jpg
Wait, wouldn't that be Soviet / Chinese?
Indeed, the Klingons were originally portrayed as (allegorical, at least) communists, the lower ranks even spoke in a droning, conforming tone to the officer caste. Klingons only assumed their more awesome form of feudal space warriors from the beginning of the original movie era to the end of the prime/canon run with Star Trek: Nemesis.
The Romulans have likewise never been facists, they are Space Romans. If you want Nazi aliens in Star Trek, you need to go to the Cardassians.
A feudal society usually is seriously conservative, so it can be a fascist one.
Never took the Romulans for fascists, they were more in line with the Roman model of imperial empire. A lot of their terms used in the cannon is also a give away; Romulus, Remus, Prator, etc.
Who All is back here because of helldivers 2?
I heard about how starship troopers was the inspiration, and everyone was saying how funny the movie was. I think they meant super troopers 😅
I'm doing my part!
Thank you for your service, soldier. Giving democracy to universe is a brave thing to do
"I for one welcome our new insect overlords"
This comment should have a few thousands more likes!
THE ONLY GOOD BUG IS A DEAD BUG
"...as a trusted internet personality I can be helpful in rounding of others - to toil in underground sugar caves..."
Rasengan good ol Kent Brockman
He does neglect the fact that the bugs started the war most of them are literally bread to kill and cannot be reasoned with. Unlike humans that have a will of their own.
"Starship Troopers: How to make fascism sexy"
*Desire to know more intensifies*
Step 1: Lie about Starship Troopers.
@@IPA300 His Analysis is correct
Except it isn't though
@@Styx007 Elaborate?
What frightens proponents of egalitarianism is that the "fascism" portrayed in Starship Troopers actually works much better than its irl equivalent, in large part due to how it looks beyond obsession with racial purity and emphasis on the human species as a whole struggling to survive and expand. The global federation based on granting voting rights only to those who've underwent military service, and how it functions better than the democracy we currently have, is the coup de grace to the egalitarian dialectic.
But muh equality tho.
Starship Troopers: Service guarantees citizenship.
Fascism: Citizenship guarantees service.
that's not fascism, that's compulsory military service
@Soxy Soxy compulsory military service is at the CORE of fascism.
@@Dharengo watch cultured thug on RUclips if you really want to know what fascist ideology is.
@@soxysoxy3277 except service does not imply military service
Dharengo Does that mean countries with compulsory military service like Israel, South Korea and Norway have core fascist values?
facsism is already sexy, there is a reason hugo boss designed the nazi uniform
based
But what came first?
Hugo Boss didn’t design them, his factory just produced them
No they didn't, they only manufactured the uniforms. The design was made by the state.
All Nazi sex isn't gay, but an astonishing amount of it is.
Where is the dictator? Where is the "forcible suppression of opposition" ? Remember the Mormon group that settled on the planet and started the whole thing? The Mormon group wasn't a part of earths government, and they weren't being attacked.
I do recognize that it was definitely intended to be a film that did represent fascism. That can't be more obvious. I'm just saying they did a bad job. Unless there's a definition of fascism that doesn't involve a dictator.
You don't need to have a dictator in a fascist system. A one-party state can do the job just as well. Fascism is defined as authoritarian ultranationalism where the society and the economy is heavily regulated.
According to the left, fascism is when you don't have a leftist dictator.
Neither of the two definitions I can think of off of the top of my head, Eco's and Trotsky's, require a dictator. You're not describing a fascist government, rather I think you're describing a government that has characteristics that remind you of fascism, even though those characteristics are neither required for nor even really necessarily suggestive of fascism. Put another way, I think you're focused too much on appearances and less on how the system is operating.
This is an absolutely amazing depiction of fascism. My favorite part of the movie is the idea that becoming a citizen is the result of free will despite civilians being subject to years of government propaganda in schools and the government. That illustrates how you can take the sort of short cited negative freedom that's mainstream irl and which appeals to the common person and use it for very nefarious political purposes. That's the kind of thing fascists do before and after they're throwing people out of helicopters or into ovens.
@@swanky_yuropean7514 also a bad post. A good general rule is anyone who thinks they can define fascism simply is uncurious, illiterate, or a liar. Maybe my mentioning Trotsky will make some right winger acknowledge there are a million working but contradictory definitions of fascism.
The wobbliest leg on thid particular table is economic regulation. The idea that fascism requires heavy economic regulation is the kind of nonsense pushed by people who read Atlas Shrugged because Anarchy, State, and Utopia was too scary. They HAVE to make it a necessary condition for fascism or they would find themselves in the uncomfortable position of supporting fascists.
@@swanky_yuropean7514 Has there ever been fascism without a dictator?
Services garentees citizenship join today. (Not just military service as its obvious they haven't read the book)
Join today and you can be a technician 3rd grade, who cleans the chicken noodle dispenser.
@@simonwinn8757 Does this look anything remotely like a 14B? That's a 14F, are you BLIND?!
The book is way different than the movie. In the Book is wasn't just those that served in the military, but anyone that serves the state in some fashion. And it straight up says it isn't the service that matters; instead that people who are willing to exercise their autonomy in service of others are the only ones who should be given the right to vote (because they are less likely to seek out short-sighted self-serving political ends if they live in a life of service to others). Also in the book, reproductive rights weren't restricted to citizens.
So yea, I'd love to see these guys do an analysis of the book, because the movie was made more as a misunderstanding parody of the book.
Yeah the book and movie have almost zero in common
The mvoie and the book are two complete seperate works, as Verhoofen absolutely stated he had never any intention of making the book look good. They never talked about the book here.
It is quite something that you act all superiour, and are not even capable of grasping that.
I’m doing my part
Edit: also I think you got this one wrong chief
Understatement of the year.
How is it tough to pin down when the director himself has stated "I don't know how much more obvious I could have made it" when discussing the satire. It's not really up for debate at that point. It mocked everything about fascism and pro-war politics. Taking this at face value is like taking Robocop at face value as a paragon of how to live in the 80's.
I think the way the plot ends turns the satire vibe on its head.
@@AlexHand It was the film directors interpretation not the source material.
My friends say they love the movie, and I know they're alt-right boneheads. So yea.... I doubt it's seen ad satire to everyone.
It's failed satire. The Terran society looks stable, clean, efficient and prosperous. Humans were fighting a war against an alien that struck first. How is any of this bad?
Uhm, the Terran Federation literally limits it's power to small government, with less powers over the population. How the fuck is that fascist? Fascism is the polar fucking opposite. Fuck the director, he didn't even read the source material. He didn't even get to the part where politics are discussed.
Paul Verhoeven was a teen in WW2 occupied Holland, he’s explained that he thought that these Germans looked great in their uniforms, young, strong and energetic - it just shows this experience left a lasting impression on his young mind, it has nothing to do with sympathizing with Nazi or Fascist ideals. I’ve read similar accounts about German POWs that were captured in North Africa, or later when describing POWs from units like the 12th Waffen SS Pz Div in Normandy.
The original book experiments with ideas of democracy Heinlein comes up with a synthesis of the modern democratic state and a warrior citizen state like Sparta. In order to be part of the demos (have full rights/citizenship) you need to have served the demos.
Verhoeven combines his crush on German military uniforms with Heinlein’s concept of state and finally modern day US culture, including the early nineties re-emerged militarism and idealization of war (CNN and the like fit right in Starship Troopers’ world) this mix is highly successful because without adding the “Nazi” layer, even if intended more as a visual homage / cadre than anything else, the actual effect of reminding us what such a state amounts to would have been much less, it would have been like “Space above and beyond” or even “Galactica” remake, which replaced “colonials” with Americans in space.
I see many parallels in modern day America and Israel, that would not be out of place in the Third Reich - Paul Verhoeven’s Starship Troopers is a pretty solid statement, intended or not.
Gregory Smith I’m pretty confident you don’t know anything about Sparta. It was a form of democracy, so democratic that they had two kings. Also, the senate was only in power for a limited time and had to justify their every action to their successors. Women owned much of the private property in the name of continuity, since only Citizens could own property, men were citizens, and men were often dying. The only Communist aspect of their society was that slaves did all of their farming.
@Gregory Smith Not liking commerce in those times meant that you preferred life as a feudal lord, wanted absolute control over your slaves, hated outside influences, and so you distrusted merchants. That is feudalism. It doesn't make you a socialist.
@Gregory Smith I have no idea where you get the idea that land was bestowed upon Spartiates by the state. It might have been bestowed upon certain people originally back when the city-state was founded but it was not a continuing practice, or Sparta would have never suffered demographic failure as Spartan citizens lost their citizenship when they couldn't pay their taxes. Land ownership was gradually tied up in a smaller and smaller number of families due to how inheritance worked. If the state could freely give land out this never would have happened.
I think this is a very American perspective of Verhoeven that does not ring true for Dutch people at all. Robocop. Starship Troopers and Showgirls are reflections on modern American society from a modern Dutch perspective. All three movies are very similar, I would call them a thematic trilogy. Crime&Corruption, Nationalism&Military worship, and Sex&Profanity respectively. I find it funny that Americans tend to 'get' the first, are a bit mystified and divided on the second but are all very negative on the third. Exploding heads are censored but some titties in Showgirls are scandalous and it is an 'offensive' movie. Seems to me like American society is ready to talk about crime&corruption, have woken up to discussing nationalism and critique of the military since Starship Troopers came out, but sex is still a no-go area lol.
A serious question.
*When faced with brutish enemy, how do would one wage war without hate for one's enemy?*
Please, give me a sexy non fascist reason.
Because you love what's you're protecting vastly more than you hate the enemy
@@Bahumutgn That's good. But killing people because you love someone you defend would develop into hate.
@@Th3Majst3r and hate leads to... sUfFerRinG.
@Manek Iridius what's the point of loving what you protect in that case?
you think too much in us vs them
"Warmact" I laughed harder than I probably should of
Another mistake; He said SS is a branch of german military.
@@barakatullah1035 Lmao, the SS were a paramilitary
@@raphuscucullatus7845 thanks for proving my point.
@John Flaherty The were paramilitary because they were police and the militarized arm (spec Waffen-SS) of the Nazi Party. That is that they did not answer to the Wehrmacht (Germans national armed forces) or any national or state police agencies. If, hypothetically, an other party would have gotten power in Germany at the time, they would not have controlled the SS, but would control the Wehrmacht and the police.
It is not at all the same as the KGB, nor the FBI or CIA. All those are state entities, and take order from the ruling party (however KGB operated in a one-party state).
Haha I came looking for someone to say it in the comments
WW1 was not competing "nationalist" agendas, but competing imperial ones. The great game/balance of power that were the causes of WW1 were thoroughly imperial and were rooted more deeply in the dynastic monarchism of the feudal and post-feudal age
In other words, nationalist agendas
I'm . . . not really seeing it. Britain was sure as shooting swallowed up by nationalist fervor with one of the King's personal projects being to shield subjects of German descent from anti-german discrimination and the 'White Feathers' harassing men with jobs vital to the war effort to enlist.
And Hitler built much of his own national mythos on the national mythos and nation building project that forged Germany as it was during WWI out of the former Germanic states.
Wasnt it imperialism meeting face first with nationalism tho? I mean the war started literally by Serbian nationalists and ended with dozens of small european nations to win their independency, downing the imperial Era to its end
Nationalism certainly was one of the causes of WWI… it was world war because of imperialism, but nationalism often drives imperialism so… I don’t understand what you’re so strongly trying to say.
nationalism and imperialism really isn't very different
The commentary on the DVD for the movie specifically mentions how the Eagle symbol for the Federation was based on pacific northwest indian tribes art. It looks nothing like the Nazi eagle anyway, other than both symbols being an eagle.
Can't expect Wisecrack to do any research I guess.
I always thought the eagle was supposed to be a stylized WW2 bomber.
Also, the wings out eagle has been used by like 70% of Western countries at one point or another, with Rome, Byzantium (ERE for you byzantophiles), Russia, HRE/Austria, USA, and Poland coming to mind off the top of my head. It's hard to claim it as a fascist symbol with so many other examples in history.
Just like the director of the movie. This youtuber didn't read the source book
The USA uses an eagle as symbol too!!!!!!!!!! Check Mate! (careful, this is sarcasm - many states in fact use an eagle as symbol......)
America also uses an eagle as its symbol.
The director never read the books and assumed the federation was facist and tried to push undertones that didnt really exist in the source material. There is only one direct example of how government works in the movie which isnt nearly enough to call it facist and that's voting rights through service. In the books its not just military service this is explained as a way to avoid corruption in government. Micheal Ironside's charachter in the movie hits this home with this stating something given has no value you have to earn it or you dont appreciate it. No one is oppressed, its still a republic democracy, free speech is rampant, and personal property and business exists all of these things clearly define the world as not facist.
Do you support 100% inheritance tax?
None of those things undermine fascism.
That's an incredibly shallow understanding; you can, absolutely, have a fascist democracy. The important part is not the political structure, but the promotion of fascist ideology by the society. That they choose to do so voluntarily, makes it no less a fascist state.
@@lucidnonsense942 Can you explain how the Federation is "fascist"? Leader is elected in the office, media is free, there is free market economy, no racism or sexism, goverment takes responsibility for the failures (such as Sky Marshall being replaced) and so forth.
"Something given has no value" is part of a mindset of both fascists and the traditional rightwing. I think there is plenty of evidence that the federation *as depicted in the movie* is fascist.
you kinda stretching this one. Heinlein was a Libertarian and the federation is the image of a hyper-libertarian society. In fact, it is valid to argue the bugs are the fascist ones. The only reason the film has so much fascist imagery was that the director wanted to make the film about fascism regardless of what it actually was!
Bugs were to be compared to communist
Mr.Gamer900 Elko Studio yeah but I don’t think Heinlein did a very good job at that. The bugs have a clear hierarchy and show individual will. The bugs, however, are fanatically loyal to their state and have complete unity of race. It’s like Hitler’s wet dream
@@harveygeorgefoster ya that's true.
@@harveygeorgefoster ' show individual will.'
Only Brain Bugs
Nope. There's no freedom in a society where all its people cannot vote. Any real libertarian would be offended by the loss of that right.
I always thought it was satire of American culture. As in "America is not that far from being fascist"
But then I'm English. Apparently we liked the film and it was well received here.
yeah the thing of "American exceptionalism" and the degree which it so often seems to be, it's always kinda cracked me up. it's like sure, remember how when back in your teens and into early 20s, of all the people you knew there was that one guy who always went out of his way every single day to point out and remind everyone how so incredibly awesome and smart and strong and great looking that he was? That's definitely the person you had the most sincere respect and reverence for, yep.
Sure it's perfectly fair and understandable to have pride in your country, but this other layer of having to make it so clear that we are the greatest fucking country in the history of the world, and it better damn well be acknowledged, why do you need that? I mean hell nevermind all the different sort of metrics that show we as the US are lagging well enough behind the rest of the world in plenty of categories, the irony is it's masking a giant insecurity.
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all"
Everyday starting age 6, brainwash them, they'll beg for more
It was indeed intended as a satire of American society. But because Verhoeven himself barely understands it, he ended up inadvertently affirming it.
Lul
Interesting. the original story was written in 1959 in the middle of the red scare and everybody was building bomb shelters in their backyards preparing for nukes from the great red menace.
Well thats how the director saw things
Okay I know this is nitpicking, but the SS wasn't part of the Wehrmacht as implied when talking about the dress code.
+Christoph Stich
I'm German and work as Historian focused on german military history and culture and there is never a video on Youtbe made by an American or Brit who creates a completely factual Video of anything related to German Military, whether it's Franco-Prussian War, World War I or World War II. I think most people know that though and it's not worth posting all the mistakes and correct them. I appreciate the Effort though to present History in an entertaining way, even if there are small or big historical inaccuracies in them like in this Video
Well, it is Hollywood after all, they're only concerned about entertainment.
@@chartreux1532 Ever heard of the "The Great War" channel? Should be right up your alley.
That depends on which part of SS we speak about, Waffen SS were part of Wehrmacht and answered to OKW and OKH plus command in theire respective theathre of operation, but rest of SS did its own thing under its own command structure.
it's not nitpicking, it's common knowledge but common knowledge is unfortunately not that common in America.
Are you doing your part?
I'm doing MY part!
I WILL DIE FOR MY EMPEROR
Squash those bugs kids!
Desire to know more intensifies.
Here's my part: There is nothing fascistic in the book or movie.
You know he doesn’t know what he’s talking about when he uses “fascism” and “militarism” interchangeably.
Well, it is the ‘founding myth’ of modernity, after all.
Gotta hate dem ebil nahtsees, else you’re a bad person and should have your life ruined.
Jay Mazella
Aaaah, a fellow True Diltom watcher. If the people in this video spent 10 minutes watching his videos, this video would probably be good and even accurate.
@Manek Iridius I wonder why the Stalin and Marx cults of personality, and the deaths of 100M through communism are given a free pass tho. At the very least, they should be considered just as abhorrent.
Militarism and the jingoism is a major feature of fascism
So are you saying fascism isn't bad because it isn't militarism, or that militarism isn't bad because it isn't fascism?
God I literally just got a ad for the seals in the middle of this video.
I got one for the marines
I got a Biden one
OMG an advert for the military... That must mean we're living in a fascist society.
@@masonmurphy2679 I got one for the special forces
and i'm from goddamn israel!
I'd rather get an ad for the Seals instead of the recent awfully woke Army recruiting videos. Those are so awful that I expect every other country to get inspired to invade the United States...
"This film doesn't push us in any particular way"
This video sure does.
Yes, it pushes against fascism, because fascism is bad
@@jamesgeorge7579 Spreads false information. Thats the issue.
To a toilet
@@jamesgeorge7579 It seems more a case with you is that anything you consider bad is fascism.
The director said it himself you idiots, this movie is about fascism.
Biggest Takeaway I took from this film was in the future locker room showers will be unisex 😬
Robocop has the same thing.
This and Aliens.
Finland military is like that
@@Vampybattie How does that not dissolve into boiking?
The only fascistic thing in this movie is the dressings. Though a portion of it is actually more German than Nazi (which the term fascist is implying here). People are allowed to go about their lives as they wish. Do business as (and with people) they wish. If it was fascism Rico wouldn't have a choice to go into business with his dad or be recruited. He would be owned by the state from birth to death. If the state wished him to serve there would be no option. They even let the Morman settlers go into bug territory against government warnings. Which the bugs took as an invasion. Which raises a question. Why didn't the bugs engage in diplomacy?
This movie is actually a good comparison between a free capitalistic society of Earth and an extremely pure communist/socialist society of bugs. Which is what the biology teacher was really describing in that clip shown. The bugs are born selfless and for their community. The average bug warrior has no more value to the whole than a bullet in a soldier's gun. They will lay down their lives without thought or question. Their biology and mental nature puts them in direct conflict with Earth. Earth even established a buffer zone of sorts in the hopes of preventing misunderstandings about territory. Their value of respecting it's people's freedom to do what they want allowed the Mormans to violate that buffer zone. Damn fascist letting people do what they want especially when the state doesn't like it (sarcasm disclaimer). Now think about that exchange and the difference in value of life. The loss of the Mormans was tragic but not worth going to war over. The bugs smashed an asteroid into a major city killing millions over a simple territory violation by a group acting independent. Any other sane group would have negotiated to avoid conflict over the Morman settler violation. It would be like the US hitting a major Mexican city with a nuke because of all the people crossing the border illegally. The bugs essentially nuked a Buenos Aries. There's nothing wrong with Earth responding with war over a clear threat.
The right to vote isn't earned for your ability to inflict violence upon others. It's earned through serving something other than yourself and defending your community. And while I don't agree that only veterans should have the right to vote. I don't think that was the sole intent of Heinlein. He was simply pointing out that a lot of so called "leaders" and "experts" tend to be idiots that don't know what they are talking about and/or are paid to just say what they are told. Do I really need to list examples of politicians, pundits, and news anchors that do this constantly? And are you really trying to suggest that military service in general can't give people a chance to make something of themselves? It isn't the only way. But to dismiss it entirely because some have used it as part of propaganda is absurd.
As for the anti "intellectualism" in the book/movie. Just because you have a piece of paper that says you went to a class doesn't mean you understand what you studied. Or that you're qualified to lead or make policy decisions on behalf of anyone. You feel free to blindly trust a degree. I'm gonna go with someone who's been busting their ass to get things done.
Yes the failing Sky Marshal resigns in the face of defeat. Yeah I remember reading in history class about all the fascist tyrants that willingly stepped aside when their plains failed. How about that time when Hitler resigned after the eastern and western fronts started getting pushed back towards Germany. Oh wait that didn't happen. Cause fascist governments don't do that. If you demand a the failing leader step down. You get shot.
The reason why they made Zim take a demotion to see combat was the value of his skills. The ability and experience needed to train very capable soldiers is a highly valued skill. Soldiers die in combat. Those soldiers need to be replaced. The ability to field capable replacements can mean the difference between survival and higher death tolls. So they made him choose wisely. Also the military can't be run like a democracy. It requires a clear chain of command that you serve at the whims of. That said his reason isn't just about killing bugs. His experience would be valuable on the battlefield to keeping soldiers alive. He'd probably be back to NCO quick.
Then there is the mood of the soldiers. They don't seem so broken up because there are time skips. One would assume they mourned. But when fighting starts they kind of have to focus. Cause you know that whole death thing. The celebrating is mostly to break the tension and repetition of combat. What do you expect them to do. Go all dramatic and emo? Constant pressure with no release valve? A lot of what you see is bravado, support, and morale. It isn't that they are happy to be in a war zone. It's that if you stay too long in a dark place. Bad things follow.
It's important to note that the only reason there are any fascistic undertones at all it's because the director *inserted* it into the story. A story he didn't even read or study. He had someone else do his homework for him and read him the bullet points. He then filled in the gaps between those bullet points. This is the biggest nail in the fascism claim. The movie has an air of fascism but the root still shines through. Because the root of it isn't fascistic at all. Heinlein was nothing of the sort. Nor did he promote fascism. In fact, Verhoeven was twisting it for *his* propaganda purposes.
I just want to add:
In the book it is explicit that you do not have to go into the military, you just have to serve the state for a period of time.
The state must allow any willing civilian to earn their vote, even if they are severely disabled. I also think people were exempt for religious and cultural reasons.
The military is a 100% voluntary organisation, and not the only way to gain the vote
In terms of the film (which this video essay is talking about) both the script writer and director used Starship Troopers to explore fascism. They have explicitly said as much in interviews.
There is no propaganda - Verhoeven originally wanted to make a film about "youth joining the nazi party in 1935 before they realized it was fascist" - but it was considered to risqué for hollywood. And so 5 years later Edward Nuemeier and Paul Verhoeven used this setting to do it instead. Saying that the film/directors intent is propaganda because it explores different themes from the book it was based on, is like saying that Blade Runner is replicant/android propaganda for exploring the idea that Deckard might be one (which is a thing the novel "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" NEVER even implied or suggested) i.e. ridiculous. It's rather the contrary actually... the director originally wanted it to be played straight down the middle, and not lean into nazi fashion/uniform, only using the speech and iconography of fascism. But after discussions about how viewers might not pick up on what they were depicting, they had NPH wear the uniform.
Sure we can discuss if authorial intent is important or comes across when analyzing film (whether it's the intent of the book or film author) but to suggest that the only fascist thing in this movie is the dressing is discounting large portions of dialogue, iconography and ideology that the film explores.
Super long winded comment but generally agreeable
There's something so funny about you unironically write this.
You took all the points that were meant to be propaganda at face value.
For example "bugs are communists" is referencing people like Pinochet who used "they communists" as an excuse for killing the people who opposed him
More importantly , this is a discussion of the movie whatever the book said doesnt matter , people saying that the director didnt read the book as a criticism
The fact that this movie flies over so many people's heads is amazing
"Look! LOOK! It's Ze coats! with free elections!"
@02:30, wow. Just wow. Hometown destroyed, all close family dead. Why does main character, suddenly become motivated to fight in war???? It boggles the mind!
Apparently, vengeance isn't a human trait to these fanatic idealist.
Violence is bad, orange man bad, a republic bad, socialism good blip blip blop.
I think the point is he seems extremely gung-ho about it. We never see any kind of long reflection, and the viciousness of the main character that *would* be present is instead a sense of duty and patriotism.
@@moredetonation3755 His sense of duty is at the beginning where he volunteers despite discouragement from his professor (via father/son dialog), his father, the recruiter, and his Drill Sergeant. He loses his sense of duty when he fails protocol during the live fire exercise, even after accepting administrative punishment. He has already quit the service and is about to leave until the news hits that BA is destroyed alone with his family. Only then does he request to return even after signing his resignation. He informs his superiors he was from BA and that his family and home were in BA. His superiors understand Rico doesn't have a family nor home he can go back to anymore after his resignation. So, they break military protocol despite the possible legal repercussions against them for doing so. This decision to come back isn't as much out of a sense of duty, but the military where his friends are is the only family any of them have left. Dizzy and Rico are obviously distraught over the news and Rice asks Carmen if she ever thinks about home and if she knew anyone that made it out alive. Even though they are short moments, there's not really much time in the film with its back-to-backdeployments to dwell on it. This is typically the response during active deployment operations. There's too many important things going on to morn. The sense of duty will still be there of course, but at the end of the film it highlights the remaining friends from BA before their next deployment. There is no end of the war in sight as the bugs will never stop till humanity is eradicated from the galaxy.
So, I have to disagree with everything this guy says about the film. I think it is him, by popular opinion, that he watches the film through a set of rose colored fascist glasses. Not for what's actually happening.
In the movie we are shown that the media is pretty transparent with regards to the utter disaster of the assault on Klendathu and they even go as far as to publicly elect a new sky Marshall because of said disaster. I can not imagine for the life of me seeing a fascist regime own up to its own military mistakes like that.
its a lost cause m8, the director himself doesn't understand fascism
Sure they would, but then they have to create a scapegoat. Which is what happened in the film.
The military council that ruled Argentina in the 80s often switched it's main commander in response to their bumbling mistakes. Doesn't means the average civilian (not Citizen) has any voice in it.
@@Ephsy Don't forget what happened to Rico either. Instead of facing a military trial or simply being drummed out they made an example out of him. For his failures they publically humiliated him via torture - torture that was mandatory viewing for the military personnel on base, not unlike the public executions mentioned earlier in the film. Rico didn't even face an actual military trial because that isn't what they care about. They care most about the appearance of strength and will reinforce that through superficial means.
Swapping out a Marshall doesn't mean shit when literally none of the tactics change
It looks like they deleted Sargon’s comment. A couple of hours ago it had nearly 1k likes, and now it’s nowhere to be found.
They deleted a lot of comments that called them out
Wait, he commented here? What did he say?
Martin Mortyry, it was completely innocuous. I don’t remember word-for-word, but it was something about how Starship Troopers takes place in a Democratic society, and that Robert Heinlein was a Libertarian.
They probably did it as a favor or Sargon realized how retarded it was
RUclips will sometimes quarantine comments. Never assume to malice that you can assume to stupidity.
Skeptic: "I find the idea of a bug that thinks offensive."
Proponent: "We'll guess what, the facts don't care about your feelings!"
Indeed they dont
it's amazing that in Democrat-controlled college campuses today, "facts don't care about your feelings" is considered a fascist sentiment
Skeptic: *sips latte* Alternative facts.
The curse of predictive text …
Conservatives/centrists think this is just a funny quirk reference rather than a very clear part of the messenging of the whole movie.
Where are my HellDiver2 troops at?
But the United citizen federation isnt fascist though....
As long as "the vote" actually MEANS SOMETHING (i.e. you have a REAL choice) it isnt fascist ... and getting the right to vote was the reason for the whole story.
In a fascist system there is no choice ... same with a communist one. I have lived in West-Berlin since the early 70s, next to the commies in the GDR, and it was pretty clear that, even though there were several political parties, none of the non-commies would ever have any power and shortly before the fall of the wall they were even proven to be lying about the voting results.
But muh eagle banners and scary (but good looking) uniforms!!
"I am free, no matter what rules surround me.
If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do."
- Robert A. Heinlein
Sounds like a fascist!
@@gert-janroodehal7368
If what I'm about to say comes off as a bit brash, I apologize, but
I don't think that word means what you think it means...
As defined by Merriam-Websters,
Fascism - a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above *the* *individual* and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.
Fascism is a new kind of right-wing socialism that emerged based on nationalism. In the doctrine of fascism, Mussolini explains that the 20th century was to be the century of the state. A fascist society forces its population to be wards of the state, from the cradle to the grave. So, no...
"I am free, no matter what rules surround me.
If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do."
Doesn't sound fascist... If that's the word you would use to describe that quote, then I believe you have a gross misunderstanding of the word itself. Comparing that quote to fascism is like comparing your statement to a well thought out detailed argument. Get it? Because your statement was none of those things; not well thought out, detailed nor even an argument.
Heinlein's quote tells you, that you are the highest moral authority in your life and you should act like it.
You know right from wrong and you should, through right action, demonstrate this to others.
The philosophy Heinlein was trying to transmit was one of personal empowerment & self-improvement, limited government and noble self-sacrifice.
Which are essentially the ideas Jordan Peterson is trying to put across.
Here, let me reword that quote so it actually does sound fascist,
I exist to serve the state.
If I find the states rules to be tolerable I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I will still obey.
I am free because the state tells me I am free.
The Starship Troopers universe is, essentially, a libertarian power fantasy, not a fascist one.
It's okay to not agree with something, like that quote, but you can't just blatantly label everything you personally disagree with as "Fascist." Otherwise the word eventually breaks down and loses all meaning.
Again, I apologize for this long winded bloated response.
@@LordVVar I'm sorry I was being ironic. Heinlein is indeed the opposite of a fascist and your quote clearly proves so. I'm suprised to see DreamPioneer up there actually equating doing what you want with fascism. A.k.a: freedom is fascism. Now THAT is something a real fascist would say.
@@LordVVar gay
@@LordVVar he was being facetious. Twas a joke my dude
"What makes Starship Troopers one of the most surprisingly complex takes on fascism in cinema"
WOAAAAH dat overstatement.
I'm still not convinced the Federation wasn't responsible for meteor that destroyed Buenos Aires.
Or maybe it was a natural asteroid and the Federation just claimed Bug aggression. I mean lobbing an asteroid across the entire galaxy with enough precision to hit earth seems unlikely.
@@TimTYT - You underestimate the brain bugs.
@@TimTYT Well that theory was destroyed when the Bugs literally do a counter attack when the humans were invading. Remember when Rico goes missing because of the failed invasion? Hell, Zander and Carmen's characters are held prisoner for the Brain bug could suck their brains out for information. Why do people act like they never seen the movie and assume the Federation is lying?
@@libertas_americana I don't get what that has to do with anything.
@@TimTYT Well then provide me evidence on how its a "Natural asteroid" and not the bugs actually sending them. Because I'm just providing on how smart the bugs are. Smart enough to send asteroid filled with bugs to earth. the burden of proof is on you to prove your theory. Get it now?
This is probably my favorite movie. When this came out I understood it to be clearly a satire of fascism, not pro fascism in any way. No one has been more surprised at some peoples take at it being pro fascism than Paul Verhoeven. That's "idiotic" as he likes to put it.
Han Lockhart the bugs are a metaphor for an “other” that represents different races
@Han Lockhart I'm talking about the movie, the book is written by a militaristic right wing author, that's not the type of person who would write a metaphor on racism
@Han Lockhart The movie is a satire of the book. Obviously we are talking about the movie here...
@SmashStomp Inc "you're and idiot"
I love the irony
@@zachfakelastname the metaphor is communism not races, that's why in the book, Rico is a Filipino
Wisecrack did not want to know more. Ended up as bug food...sad... :(
F
Not based on.
Slightly referenced by the novel. This movie is not even close.
The book is pretty much a camouflage suit the actual movie content wears to sell the movie past the studio people. Dumb scifi action flick and with Henlein connection, SOLD. movie plot underneath: That sheep cloth worked perfectly, now lets blow the audiences minds.
@@aritakalo8011 I loved the book, but the movie ended up pretty great too. Rare case of adaptation abuse actually resulting in something I enjoyed.
The film is basically a parody of the book
@@kaistzar2831 if you read the book it supports open minded thinking, but supporting humanity and trying to understand a different species' mindset
@@kaistzar2831 The system isn't totalitarian, it's a libertarian wet dream.
According to Marine Corps lore, Daly rallied his men at the Battle of Belleau Wood by yelling, "Come on, you sons-o'-bitches, do you want to live forever?" This quote first appeared in And They Thought We Wouldn't Fight, a 1918 memoir by war correspondent Floyd Gibbons of The Chicago Tribune.
Isn't Starship Troopers just an extreme libertarian meritocracy? Nobody gets forced into doing anything they don't want to, they just get heavily incentivised and rewarded for competency.
they arnt really interested in merit though, two people doing the same job will be rewarded equally regardless of how well they do it, the requirement is commitment not competence (not counting the SS guys) it breaks down to a binary, there are those that do fight and those that dont, citizens and civilians hell the only reason Johnny gets promoted is because people above him get killed, if the film had been 30mins longer he'd be a general by the end of the movie
@@stevenr6397 How did you come to this conclusion? Johnny gets both promoted and demoted in the beginning solely based on merit (for being the best leader and later for getting someone killed). Later the sky marshal gets demoted because he fucked up. I don't know which movie you watched, but it surely wasn't Verhoevens Star Ship Troopers.
@@Unit-kp8wm mainly because he only gets promoted when either ace abdicates responsibility or someone dies, yes he gets demoted for being screwing up but promotions just go to the next in line or whoever is near by
No. In fact, in the book history, meritocracy was tried and failed.
It's not about ability or intelligence. It's about emotions. It's about caring more for others than yourself.
His central point is that people who put the rest of society first make better voters and leaders. I.e. people who put themselves first do not make better voters and leaders.
Starship Troopers was a satire, just like Robocop was. It was one of the funniest films I've ever seen.
The movie was , the book was quite serious.
@@nickschmidt7663 Except Earth was lied into the war. Klendathu was the arachnid's home planet, and the ONLY place Earth was attacking. Earth was invading the bugs.
The bugs didn't have interstellar travel, so just exactly did they manage to drop an asteroid on Buenos Ares? Well, they didn't, either it was an accident that Earth used for propaganda purposes, or it was an outright false flag.
Every human being in the film is nothing more than a commodity so people are purposely sent to their deaths, and the war isn't even necessary. If Earth doesn't want to be bothered by the bugs, they could just leave Klendathu - that's not even presented in the film as a possibility ONCE.
This film was a satire on US foreign policy, done before the 2nd Iraq war based on Operation Desert Storm, Grenada, Bosnia, Serbia, Vietnam, etc.
George W. Bush then lied to us about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Then Obama lied about Qaddafi "causing a humanitarian crisis" and "Assad gassing his people". We get lied to all the time.
Russian Collusion was a lie. Our last election was a lie. Heck, I think at this point there's quite a bit of compelling evidence to suggest 9/11 was an internal false flag to do what PNAC wanted, and that was 100 years of war.
This film really is a bit of genius because it's almost prescient.
It's off topic, but I think it's funny that so many morons were screaming the Orange Man was a Nazi, when in fact, the US has been run by Nazis since at least 2000. Probably since George H. Bush became president in 1988. Clinton was swell friends with the Bush family when he was running cocaine through Arkansas for the CIA during the 1980s.
Gary Webb did a book on that called Dark Alliances, then he killed himself a decade later, but shooting himself in the head, twice.
I think your are seeing too much of your personal perceptions and political persuasions in the events of the movie.
@@usamwhambam Me? Have you seen what Paul Verhoeven has stated about the film?
This is the same guy that made Robocop. Starship Troopers is CLEARLY a satire.
ruclips.net/video/0QotxGy4CKk/видео.html
You're missing it out if you don't see the film for what it was intended to be. This is a deeply dark comedy.
Starship Troopers is one of the most BRUTAL satires on film.
@@fuzzywzhe give me a definition of fascism.
The fascist imagery in Starship Troopers was noticed immediately by the film's critics upon release.
Also the "Would you like to know more?" trope was mimicking Microsoft's slogan at the time "Where do you want to go today?"
The only thing fascist in this movie is the trenchcoats. It's hilarious that NPCs can't tell the difference.
@@nickschmidt7663
If they could tell the difference we wouldn’t have a fascist organization today that calls itself anti-fascist.
@@nickschmidt7663 I mean, sure, if you look past all the other parallels and lick boots for a living.
@@nickschmidt7663 From my point of view, you’re an npc. Interesting how that works right?
@@coreygarris9390 Give an example of how Starship Troopers is fascist without referencing the uniforms or the sentence about how Germany won WW2 in the beginning.
The government of the Federation in Starship Troppers isn't fascist. It's essentially a meritocratic republic.
The history of Roman empire says hi, it also says you are hilariously wrong.
Next up: Low IQ RUclips commenters accuse Dr Strangelove movie of being pro-nuclear war.
@DejaVoodooDoll Whoosh
@Game james You are not free to choose the direction of the state, i.e. you have no franchise unless you serve in the military. Of course peeps like you dont bother to vote, so dont value it as a freedom, when in fact its your single most important one.
@DejaVoodooDoll
Pro-fascism? It's not even fascism period, let alone claiming to put a positive spin on it. Wisecrack did bad on this one.
@@geotom2217 there are multiple way to become citizen. The military is just the fastest. (Repeating this because I think you missed it)
They also think that Blazing Saddles and Uncle Tom's Cabin are pro-racism.
Man, I'd forgotten what a gorgeous babe Denise Richards was, back in the day.
Always felt more atracted to Dina Meyer.
She posed for playboy around that time. You're welcome.
She's a Wild Thing.
Time to check on that Wild Things sex scene again huh
Finally, the voice of reason in the comments.
Had no idea that was a Golden Girl in the movie. Wow, that is awesome. Imagine if they'd gotten Betty White in a part to.
Betty White was in it. She was the Brain Bug.
... in a part,* too*.
3:17
Did you just pronounce Wehrmacht as "War-maht" lol
It really bugged me.. no pun intended.
Yeah it's more like "Vher-mact"
@@kennan6176 Yeah it's more like "Wal-mart"
Wal-Mart Republic!!!!!!
NoDogesAllowed “wal-Mart”
In order to make the state in Starship Troopers appealing they had to take several things on what a fascist state really his.
Propaganda was done in every countries in WW2. Making enemy repulsive was common. Militarist society is common in a lot of regime.
Neither you nor the film really understand what fascism really his I think.
The film was never intended to be a propaganda piece for or against fascism tho. it just borrowed uniform designs to a certain extent and that is all. I think the film has a much better understanding of what fascism is then whoever made the script for this video.
@@agilagilsen8714 Oh yes ... Verhoeven intended to show the society as a fascist society ... and FAILED completely!
@@Muck006 If he actually tried then I have no idea how. Other then the uniforms nothing about their society is resembling of a fascist society at all.
I mean in terms of things that aren't normal in any society that is at war.
@ArchersBowHaveBroken How can you say they join volintary when theybare fed propaganda about how good cool and fun is to be in the military
Alias Z50 Every military does that? Ever seen a US army add “make life long friendships, and learn what it means to be part of something bigger than yourself!”
"Johnny winds up a high-ranking leader in the war effort."
He winds up a first lieutenant. This is the second-lowest rank of commissioned officer. He is high-ranking only in the sense that the movie focused on a single platoon, which he ends up commanding. In the modern US military, a kid who finishes college and then enters the military and becomes an infantry officer gets to that rank in about 2-3 years. Someone with a specialized skill who is directly commissioned, like a physician, can skip that rank entirely just for signing up, entering as a captain.
Kids who graduate college and enter the military start as a lieutenant
Texas Patriot ^
I was about to say that. ROTC and Service Academies lead to direct commissions upon graduation and completion of the program. Even OCS is only a few months to my knowledge, less than a year.
@@cynicaltexan9639 He ends a 1st Lt, not a 2nd Lt. To avoid a lengthy explanation of the difference between butterbars and 1st loueys, I kept it simplified, since it's obvious that the Wisecrack team has less military background than a group of whiny Warhammer players.
@@carloscaro9121 yes I know. 2nd, 1st, cpt, major, ltc, full bird, 1 star, etc
Doctor's especially must be of high rank, because medical orders outweigh almost everything else. A four star general could order you to do 50 push-ups, but if a doctor says "No". Then that's the final thing said on the matter.
(Doesn't always work like that, but it is supposed to).
Starship Troopers is f*cking amazing - a much brighter future than the one we are currently heading for.
it's like the same future lol. in fact the movie is like ahead of it's time. All you have to do is superimpose this film and 9/11 and on and yeah you get the picture.
@@JohnDoe-sw1sm except we don't have spaceships and offworld holiday resorts 😳
Are you referring to their technological advances compared to our certain pollution or nuclear-based doom?
@@bbarrettgriffith aye, also humans are united.
@@McMurchie Yeah, there are better technological advances in other movies tho tbh
In book, Rico's father joins Marines after home is demolished.
Moosehead Bear
🚀Starship Troopers fans/ Veterans 🕷I re-did the audiobook 📚 w sound 🔊 💥 effects and voice acting! 🎤 8 hrs. Please 🙏🏼listen 👂 and SHARE!!! FB page “Starship Troopers the book”
ruclips.net/video/zwFMszIVGko/видео.html
I didn't like the book compared to the movie. All the characters were flat, the narrator doesn't really go into much detail about what they do, if he likes them, how he thinks they feel, etc. so I didn't care about them that much.
He goes on with the philosophy of how great violence and punishment are, but the story doesn't really reflect that. All the violence and punishment doesn't accomplish much, beyond killing people and bugs. By the end of the story they were trying to capture and study the bugs to learn more about them, so just shooting at the problem clearly wasn't working. The parts about aliens weren't well described or very exciting to me.
Sorcerer's Apprentice darn. Well the concept of how violence is applied and it’s relation to voting 🗳 were my favorites. More emphasis on big vision of human nature I think. Oh well. Glad you at least read it. I sadly feel society will continue to go downward unless we get serious about crime and punishment.
@@deaddropsd1972 America has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world. if punishment alone worked, then America would be the safest country in the world. If people commit crimes due to issues like drug addiction and mental illness, then programs like addiction counselling and public health care would be more effective than punishment.
Heinlen's own militarism turned out to be dead wrong in both the story and real life. In his view, communists were the same as insects - disgusting creatures that were technologically inferior and literally dehumanized. If violence and punishment were the best solutions, than the protagonist could have just shot everything and the problem would be solved, instead they needed science. He thought the Cold War would only end in WWIII, with the might of the American Army to save the day. It ended with civil unrest and public protest throughout Eastern Europe after Heinlen's death, because the people living there hated repression.
Sorcerer's Apprentice physical punishment. Caning like Singapore 🇸🇬. Cleaner streets. Draconian. Yes I know but still what I wish for. Robbery. Whipping. Murder - hanging. I think we overthink things. We have gone to far towards “rights”. No mention of “duty”. Kids get abducted. Murdered. Criminals get incarcerated. Repeat. I am 10000% for mental health hospitalization, rehabilitation. Universal healthcare. However when a man kidnaps or murders anyone- swift death 💀 penalty. Tolerance of these crimes just encourages worse. Alternative, is just keep doing what we are doing...
Do the philosophy of the Golden Girls, coward!
This could work. I'd like to see an economic analysis of that decade and the history of that generation together with it.
It needs one first
What you’re asking may as well be, ‘do the trans philosophy of Alice in wonderland”
You could do it but you have to impose almost all of it and force it out of the work
There’s actually interesting work out there hopefully they focus on instead
Hell yeah ...
I would love to see a Wisecrack episode on The Golden Girls. I grew up with that show, and I'm happy to see it's had a resurgence of popularity among young people. It started with Betty White Memes and remained because of the shows progressive humor.
But they just did a video on fascism, do we need another one so quickly?
WOW YOU GUYS DELETED THE SARGON COMMENT WHY.
What did he say?
@@hkmrsrg1367 Probably somethnig stupid. And he probably deleted the comment himself after people called him out.
Sargon the cringelord and his peanut gallery. No one cares.
@@damjanp7920 well seeing as he made an entire response video going to guess he didn't delete it.
RUclips can auto quarantine comments essentially hiding them, happens all the time
Starship Troopers was a satire, just like Robocop. In Starship Troopers the character (Rico) embraces the system and becomes part of it, but in Robocop he rebels and fights against the system.
That's the way I see it too. Robocop is about finding identity, while Starship Troopers is about the loss of it.
"Thanks to ExpressVPN for sponsoring this episode!"
Well, at least we know who to blame
Now now, expressesVPN isn't a communist. Their fascist. Lol
They spent more rounds on the killing of one bug than The A-Team used in an entire episode!!!
At least they actually hit something.
this movie at least last time I checked, had the world record for most Live ammunition used in a film
That scene was really stupid. They would have been killing each other surrounding it like that.
Alright I don’t want to go conspiratorial but I can’t find a pertinent comment that perfectly incapsulated the biggest problem with this video. I hope it’s just the comment algorithm being funny and not the comment being deleted, but just to be sure I will repeat that comment (sorry if the original is still there and I simply can’t find it):
You confused Fascism with militarism, and militarism with having an army.
It looks like they purged the comments of dissenters. I saw what you said echoed a hundred times the last time I checked these comments, but then I don't see any of them now.
I'm sorry it didn't live up to your personal fascist standards.
Nice
deadly TRIFORCE those are not my standards, look up the definition of Fascism. Militarism and fascism aren’t the same thing, even though fascism has militaristic aspects. Also it can be said that the movie doesn’t have a militaristic vibe since the war the characters are fighting is a defensive war against a violent and powerful enemy that attacked unsolicitedly killing millions of civilians.
My guy, their are literally people in the movie who are GENETICALLY SUPERIOR and happen to wear SS uniforms. Whoever the author of that comment is doesn't know much about fascism.
I first watched this at age 11 and right after I immediately started to run outside and step on random ant piles. 😥
I managed to ignite ants nest on the yard of my kindergarten using magnifying glass and when they asked me why did i do that? I answered Only good bug is a dead bug!. My dad had answer some questions to a child protection officials. He still reminds me of it to this day.
You're doing your part!
All I can say is "WOW"?
Did you even watch the movie?
i love how the video starts contradicting itself by the end. "sure it seems like an open society with full freedom of choice, speech, accountable gov and full gender and racial equality, but thats just how the fash lure you in." lol
Why is that a contradiction?
Road it is a contradiction because fascism doesn’t allow freedom of choice, opinion, speech, and voluntary enrolment like Starship Troopers’ society does.
@Natasel
Service is VOLUNTARY.
Soldiers are allowed to quit.
The main character proves this ffs.
@Natasel
What you've outlined has absolutely nothing to do with what is shown in the movie... you're contradicting the lore of the film and what we are shown.
@Natasel Not in Starship Troopers.
I saw this after 9/11 when I was 14 and I honestly thought it was celebrating the US invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. Obviously that's impossible because the movie came out in 1997, but looking back I still see more similarities with US triumphalism than German Fascism.
That’s because the bugs are the fascists. The humans have a democratic style government with freedom. The only difference is the suffrage has to be earned in some way.
That's because it's not a story about fascism.
Militarism is a core aspect of fascism, and the military-industrial complex sure has a huge influence on US foreign policy.
I'm not saying the USA is a fascist state, but some of the markers of fascism are present (The Pledge of Allegiance, post-9/11 surveillance, militarisation of the police...)
The film was actually about America, drawing on prime German examples.
it's not? I mean ed neumeier said it was about cultural fascism, and he said affirmative action and political correctness was a part of that
@@robertmartin6800
Basically what you are saying is “if you take away all the tenants of fascism (oppression, all powerful state, restrictions on freedom, racism, dictatorship etc.) then fascism looks pretty sexy.”
So the way you make fascism look good is by making it not fascism?
I mean... you’re not wrong. But I think you are mistaking iconography for ideology.
My favorite part of this comment is that it talks about how incredibly not fascist the UCF is.
realistically when people think the state is good and you're following main characters that the state wants to promote then it does look good as it did for young average German men but if you look at anyone the state doesn't like then it's the opposite
@@jacksteel1539 You mean we should see the side of literal genocidal hive-minded bugs? I think you forgot that the original book was written by a US Naval Officer, But the actual fascists that are represented today and during WW2 in the same way as the bug were showed in the movie and in the book. This video argumentation is so flawed that it breaks itself showing scenes from the movie that proves the exact opposite of the "pro-facism" argument.
Lines like a 7:03 make this very obviously an anti-fascist movie.
The only puzzling thing is how people see scenes like that one and the one at 8:30 and go "yep, that's pro-fascism alright".
HOW?!
ST is clearly a satire of Henleins work as BioShock is clearly a satire of Ayn Rand. P. Verhoeven even started as a military propaganda movie director - although Henlein himself wasnt a fascist, nor an objectivist, Verhoeven used his world to satire his own personal view on heavy military politics, Henleins book is too different in themes its conveying and the ways they are being executed to consider them to be a manual for Verhoeven to utilize. What the movie tries to show Is the bug/hivemind mentality of both humans AND bugs or any highly organized social communities where individualism has to make a room for one goal/or the rulling class wishes (ant queens, Brainbugs, military leaders).
Which is hilarious as Voerhooven *never read the book* and in the book, military service only maeks 5% of the Federal Service job. Everything else is civil job, like being scientist, janitor, fire fighter, terraforming work on Venus, etc. Book places heavy emphasis on *individuals* decision and their ability to do things. Federation is ruled by an elected council made of Citizens who, as I stated, could be janitors or scientists. No need for military jobs.
Furthermore, civilians have the same rights as Citizens, with only difference between two being that civilian has not proven that he values group over individual, and thus is not granted right to vote. Yet, a civilian can at any point volunteer for the Federal Service, as is their right, and Federation can not deny them this right.
It's Verhoeven not Voerhooven
@@Mandemon1990 Why is that it hilarious? The director wanted to explore fascist themes and did so through a movie that was based on a book. Also why would he need to read the book? It was the script writer that brought it to him/adapted it.
Having opinions about an adaption and change of themes is one thing. But come on, Blade Runner strays HEAVILY from the source material - a lot of amazing films do - and just because the novel Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep doesn't at all explore Deckard potentially being a replicant/android that doesn't in any way prove that the film doesn't. Same goes for Starship Troopers. Edward Nuemeier and Paul Verhoeven explored fascist themes in the film regardless of what Heinlein originally intended with his book.
i really wish people would stop comparing the book to the movie. they're two different beasts with two different messages. nevermind the reasons why verhoeven went ahead and didn't read the book, that's a typical trope of theater going back centuries. hell, shakespeare did the same thing with his plays: took an old play, reworked it into his style, changed its message and boom! new play! romeo and juliet is nothing more than a different take on the comedia del'arte's romeo i giulietta. the original does not have the moralistic approach to teenage sex metaphorically destroying lives, and that's just one example. both works of theater are still studied today. let's give starship troopers the same treatment.
@@eddyguizonde401 absolutely agree! As for why Verhoeven didn't read the book - why would he? I really don't understand this as a criticism of Starship Troopers or his abilities as a director.
Edward Neumeier, the script writer, originally penned the story under a different name - and it was always more of a reaction to Heinlein's book than an outright adaption. Verhoeven had earlier talked with Neumeier about wanting to direct a story about "youth that join the nazi party in 1935 before they realize it's fascist" but it was considered too risqué for Hollywood until making it into a scifi became a viable solution.
I don't ever think Verhoeven was particularly interest in the book, it's setting just functioned as a good frame work to explore the themes of fascism that interested him (given that the script writer was familiar with the book I don't see why it would be an issue). And like you pointed out - exploring different themes in new adaptions is quite a common literary device. And also in films.
I've used the comparison between Blade Runner and Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep in other comment threads - but it genuinely is a similar situation. Philip K Dick explores themes of empathy and humanity - but never in the book is it suggested or even implied that Deckard could be an android/replicant... that is a theme that was introduced in the film and only exists there. Does that make the film worse or wrong for exploring themes that wasn't there in the source material?? I don't think so. And I don't think anyone would argue it either. But for some reason Starship Trooper is not afforded the same kind of treatment. And I think we know why.
It makes me think about how Edward Neumeier said in an interview that he realized that quite a few people didn't like the scene at the end in ST because of what it was actually saying.
I reckon the people defending Starship Troopers in-film ideologies and saying it's not fascist feel similarly betrayed that the film is actually a satire of fascism.
The fact that someone like Rico has the individual right to decide and define what he wants to do with his life flies in the face of the idea that this is a fascist society as Mussolini said "The keystone of the Fascist doctrine is its conception of the State, of its essence, its functions, and its aims. For Fascism the State is absolute, individuals and groups relative." if this was a fascist society Rico would not have a say in his own life because the state would decide for him.
Also no fascist regime would show itself failing completely at fighting it's enemy like the federation does.
@Shwagg Krumb Yes but the scapegoat is part of the government thereby making the government look like it's at fault even if it's just partially which no fascist government would allow.
Also Hitler was a nazi not a fascist there is actually a difference between the two even if they are very similar.
It worked. As a kid all I wanted to do was join the mobile infantry and kill some bugs.
And now you can with helldivers 2 😂
I’ll take “I either didn’t read the book or didn’t pay very close attention, also I don’t have a very firm grasp on what fascism is” for $500, Alex.
You know you quote Stalin “death of one is a tragedy the death of a million is a statistic “ , then prove Federation didn’t do that.
"Fascist officer from a high-tech parallel universe" is one of the best moves in the Playbook.
Loving that Helldivers 2 is giving this video more views.
Would you like to know more?
*DESIRE TO KNOW MORE INTENSIFIES*
only if i can take rachets history and moral philosophy course
Ahahahaha I KNEW someone was going to refrence that ol' gem, glad ya did!
So apparently Hank Schroder hated bugs before finding his love for minerals
I was in the Marines and a platoon commander in my company made his platoon read starship troopers...and do a book report on it ...as motivation 😂
Isn’t it on the commandants reading list?
@@isaacestes1606 It was removed from the list by the most recent cuckold to hold the position.
Thats says a lot about how fascist the Marines/military is 😂
@@Exxperiment626 Dear god, they made them read a pro libertarian book, those fascists.
@Exxperiment626 the marines are not fascist:
Fascism: noun
A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
Oppressive, dictatorial control.
....
The marines are well trained professional soldiers loyal to the constitution who protect your democracy.
...
Joke #1
Ask the Army to secure a building and they will set up a perimeter around it and make sure nobody gets out.
Ask the Marines to secure a building and they will charge in, kill everybody inside, and then set up defenses to make sure nobody gets in.
Ask the Navy to secure a building and they will turn off all the lights and lock all the doors at 1700.
Ask the Air Force to secure a building and they will sign a 10 year lease with an option to buy.
dude I remember watching this movie when I was like 11 or 12 and after I saw them tattoing their arms with "Death" I went to the bathroom and wrote "Death" on my upper arm with a pencil HAHAHAHAH
I watched at a similar age but only remember dizzy boobs
A society which valorizes military service and fighting a foreign enemy is not unique to fascism. It can be found in practically every society throughout history.
The idea that political force is violence is not unique to fascism either. Political scientists routinely define government as an institution with a monopoly on the legitimate use of violence.
If the goal of the goal of the federation is genocide against the bugs, then that might just be a legitimate goal. The bugs are presented as a serious existential threat to humanity.
Philosopher Ken Wilber in his book “A Theory for Everything” details a full spectrum of different societal values from the Nationalistic and Militaristic to the Globalist and Humanitarian. He states that the mistake people have made throughout history is thinking of these values in stark, dualistic, good/bad morality. When it is best to see these values as having their time and place. In the face of a serious existential threat Nationalism and Militarism are not bad things, but in a time of peace they cause more harm then good.
Just like socialism is fine for a NASA team...but for a country, not so much.
@@fubaralakbar6800 Say that to Europe my friend
@@davidgarrido8363
I have, many times. They don't listen. They just keep on going hungry and letting foreigners run roughshod over them, in the name of some perceived virtue. It's basically masochism.
@@fubaralakbar6800 Well, I AM from europe, were we have free healthcare system, less infant mortality, less homeless people, less famine and crimes and so on. We have our flaws of course, but I don't think that socialism is one
@@davidgarrido8363 If you truly would be from Europe, you would know that we have anything but surely no socialism. That's just some mind fart made popular by ignorant U.S. left-wingers. The only major difference between the U.S. and many European countries is that the latter force you to own healthcare insurance (aka "free healthcare"). That's it.
Here Wisecrack asserts that the characteristics found in all modern civilizations which are also represented in Starship Troopers are exclusively inherent to Fascist civilization. Wisecrack's analysis is wrong on so many levels.
Indeed, I think part of the point of the film is that the U.S. military has plenty of fascist ideology / imagery. Look at the dehumanization of the Vietnamese during that war, or the Iraqis during Iraq War I...
@Führer des Benutzers Certainly, it's not *unique* to fascism. But fascism *modernized* it, using eugenics and other racist pseudoscience to make the concept of a "master race" a seemingly non-religious fact. It's easier to demonize and kill an "enemy," even a vulnerable, internal one, if you don't think they are the same species of animal as you.
@Yarcov Notabotnick I can't tell if you are talking about the Industrial Revolution, post-1989 globalization, some right-wing position, or what.
In Austria, Finnland, and many other nations, men are forced to do service, by law. Their citizenship is not a privilege granted for voluntary service. It's an obligation put upon us by the state. There's *_no way_* in which the Troopers government is more fascist than mine. In fact, by that logic, mine is much more fascist.
It is not actually fascist, though, and neither is the one in this movie. Fascists don't let the entire business community opt out of their "civic duty" and become rich, have a grat life, while not controlling the economy at all. Fascists don't let you have a choice. Fascists don't treat everyobdy according to their merit and service, rather than to their inborn characteristics. Calling this fascism is a completely ridiculous whitewashing of actual fascism. If the Troopers government were fascist, then fascism would be a good thing. *_It is not fascist._*
Well, uh... under what definition of fascism? The only thing people seem to agree on in these comments is that fascism isn't well defined and that this isn't an example of it. But what does it mean to say that X is NOT Y, if we don't know what we're referring to as Y? Well, it turns out Wisecrack thought about this, and so they read out and cited the sources for what they would be referring to as "fascism". You've applied your list of several hyperspecific and vague requirements for a body to be considered "fascist" to their use of the word, which is blatant misrepresentation or a misunderstanding of their use (but again... they did specifically explain what its use would be referring to). I suppose you're free to disagree with the definitions they presented (though it's not like you'd be disagreeing with Wisecrack, since they aren't the originators), but it seems to me like they did a decent job of providing the specific evidence necessary to satisfy the definition that THEY PRESENTED (though perhaps not the one you'd prefer they use and that sits abstractly in your mind).
@@DavidHackGomez95 To give the shortest, still correct definition of 'fascism': The worship of state power to the detriment of the individual. The Federation is the total opposite.
the federation is not the opposite of fascism, the military drill, the pursuit of "the general good" over individuality as a pseudo-argument, from the characteristics: it is pretty clear that starship trooper is a satire on fascist, militaristic states. the "bugs" are literally a de-humanization of the enemy. the advertisement like style of the military press is also a ironic nod to how easy it is to advertise war, as was done in america (think the golf wars) as something good and right, so that the whole population chimes in. His dad in the beginning urging him to be more self-oriented (individualistic) by furthering his education instead as being wasted as cannon fodder fell on deaf ears. it couldn't be more obvious. I'm sorry, but you are wrong. And I don't think that the mandatory service in real countries has something to do with it either or can be hold as a case that we are "more fascistic". Yes, you are forced to participate, but after you have done your basic training, you are free to leave. you will be called in again in the case of war anyway, but just if your country is attacked. I bet that goes for all countries, even if you didn't serve. For mission in other war zones, usually you have to volunteer or be selected. Also, the rest of the public isn't forced into the military or can choose careers outside. Same with starship troopers, the society is more or less free and mirrors our own, racial and gender differences seem a thing of the past, but all this equality is in the face of war: all are equal before the military, so they can serve as good, mindless drones without individuality, hell their individuality is even used to find their best place in the forces. But it is made sure that society furthers the military and makes them in general positive towards the war (the lessons about the bug biology with their racial connotations, kids getting taught to have fun squiching bugs), dismissing people who suggest to try to communicate with the bugs and so on. well, i just repeat wisecracks video at this point. watch again and try to understand.
@@noimnotnice the only "correct" definition of the word "fascism" we can use when analyzing this text is the definition provided to us by the text. Since it is the elaboration of what intellectual entity the word would be referring to in its use of it. Jared established what he meant when he said it, and then mostly convinced me in the text that the federation satisfied it. Notice Jared never made "worship of state power" part of the working definition, so that is still an incorrect definition to use. It's as if someone proclaimed "when I say 'dog' I will be referring to a four legged canine. See, this animal has four legs and is a canine, so is a dog" and then someone responded "THAT'S NOT A DOG, DOGS HAVE 5 LEGS!"
In Israel, Women AND Men are forced to do military service. So actually Israel is more fascist then ST.
Very good analysis of the film-but Verhoeven's interpretation of the film was 100% the opposite of Heinlein's novel. I enjoyed the film-it was so chock full of absurdities it was funny.